₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Why speak so foolishly? Even in Isreal a lot of people lived and were even honoured by God before they even did the one which got them dishonoured eg David, Solomon, Hezekiah, Josiah, Daniel, etc.

Please die alone do not do like satan and carry people with you.

Why are you so dull in understanding. I am telling you that we are not under the Law of Moses. If we are, then the law is useless. It's no longer a law.

There is no mercy under the Law of Moses. The soul that sin gets instant judgement.

For instance under the Law, you must marry the any lady you disvirgin. And if any lady marry and the husband discover that she is not a virgin, she will be stoned to death.

There are over 600 instructions contained in the Law of Moses. If you break one, you have broken all. And if you can't keep all, you place yourself under the curses listed in Deuteronomy 28:16-68.

You want to use your head carry the load the Jews couldn't carry? It this not stupidity?

Why Eguavon? I don't like his coaching style.

Samson Siasia has raised better team than him.

Well, it's their problem.

Dtruthspeaker:
i have told him several times that Tje Law. was never abolished rather Christ brought it back since the jews threw it away. And thst paul is a lawyer telling us that Christ brought The Law back that "end of Law" means destination and purpose in Law and not termination/finish as laymen will think.

If the Law of Moses has not been abolished, you and I will not be alive today. Under the Law of Moses, violation of Sabbath day attracts death penalty. How many of us keep the Sabbath today? And how many people have been stoned to death for violating the Sabbath day?

But it has actually been abolished.

Even during the earthly Ministry of our Lord Jesus, he violated the Law on a few occasions and gradually introduced grace.

When they brought a woman caught in the very act of adultery, they sought the opinion of Jesus before they stone her to death. But we all know what Jesus said. This is grace at work.

Apostle Paul let us know why the Law has to be abolished.

First, it was never God's intention to relate with us based on the Law. The promise made to Abraham was not based on the law. Hear what the scripture says in two passages!

Romans 4:13-14
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect.

The passage above says that those two keep the Law of Moses are not heirs. They have no part in the kingdom of God because our justification is by faith and not by the Law of Moses.

Galatians 3:18-25
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

What then did Jesus mean when he said he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfil it?

By virtue of the fact that he is the Son of God, he has the authority to make certain order and it will be obeyed. But Jesus did not abuse his authority like we experience in Nigeria where Law makers are the Law breakers.

What Jesus said in a nutshell is that he didn't come to arbitrarily abolish the law but will follow due process to do it.

The word fulfil in this context means to bring to a justified end. And this he did when he went to the cross.

So he said that before this is done, the law must be kept. But after it is fulfilled, they are no longer under obligation to keep it. I have a whole book on this.

Huh

Qasim6:
Concerning your statement about the law of Moses been abolished, I just want to know other than the writings of Paul are there other source for that?

Because I believe Jesus said he has not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law and also I know the other Apostles continue to follow the law after Jesus left the scene.

If the knowledge of abolishment was revealed to Paul, Why didn't Paul tell the apostles about the abolishment of the law when he was summoned to Jerusalem concerning him telling people not to follow the law. He was even asked to do some religious rites to show to people he follows the law and he obliged

Yes, there are and it is contained in the book of Acts. The issue of whether the Gentiles should keep the Law of Moses was actually discussed and they came out with a resolution!

Acts 15:24-28.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. note

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things.

Read the entire chapter to get the full story.

Jackanda1:
You're right. Any suggestion please?

It's your thread, just think about another headline that matches the message you are trying to convey.

MaxInDHouse:
Prove you know Christ now by presenting your fellow worshipers the same way Jesus did in his own time! Matthew 12:46-50

I present to the whole world the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses the one and only religion where LOVE for neighbours, enemies and fellow believers is WORKING!

Without such WORKS your faith is DEAD! James 2:18-26

So your fairy Hell stories is gibberish! 2Timothy 4:3-4

Your brain will reset when your soul enters hell. For now, Russell and Rutherford has brainwashed you. I pity your end. Thank God I found the truth early.

5. The revelation of the rapture of the Church.

This is perhaps one of the biggest revelation in the writings of Apostle Paul;

1st Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. note

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1st Corinthians 15:52-54
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

4. Our identification with Christ.

This is another great revelation. Apostle Paul let us know that we were crucified with Christ, buried with him and rose up from the dead with him.

Furthermore, he said that we are sealed together with him on the right hand of the First;

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Please, tell me where else in the letters written by the other Apostles you get this revelation.

3. The revelation of us being new creation or creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is another I unique revelation contained in the letter of Paul. You can't see it presented in any other letters this way.

It is eye opening.

Hear what Apostle Paul himself said concerning his calling!

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

He was called into the Apostolic ministry by Jesus himself.

In addition he said;

Galatians 1:11-12.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Notice the phrase, 'by the revelation of Jesus Christ'.

In other words, the things he wrote were revealed to him by Jesus Christ himself.

So, Suleman Johnson didn't hear from Jesus. He is out of faith and should check himself well.

Now, let's continue with the unique revelations contained in the letters of Paul.

2. Paul's writings made us understand that no one is justified by the Law of Moses. Justification is by faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Unfortunately so many so called servants of God still teach their members to follow and keep the Law of Moses. This is a grave error.

Christ brother grace. The Law of Moses has been abolished.

I have a whole book on this.

Ephesians 2:8-9.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

No other Apostle presented this truth the way Paul did

I had to come up with this thread to enlighten us on the writings of Paul to the church. It's because of the recent comment by Suleman Johnson that Jesus spoke to him that his friend that died mysteriously was teaching Paul's message and not his revelation. Johnson Suleman even added that Apostle Peter discredited the writings of Apostle Paul.

I want to make a submission here backed up with scriptures that the church would have been in the dark without the letters Apostle Paul wrote to the churches.

First of all, Apostle Paul didn't call himself into the Ministry. He was actually persecuting the church until he had an encounter with Jesus that changed the story of his life.

Apostle Paul was the only Apostle that was given deep revelation about the church, what God did for us in Christ, who we are in Christ, what we can do because of our union with Christ and even how the rapture will take place.

Let me begin to list some of his unique revelation without which we would have been in the dark and even the ministry of reconciliation committed to our trust would have suffered a setback.

1. The principle of salvation as revealed by Apostle Paul.

Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The passage above is the template we normally use when leading lost souls to Christ.

The other Apostles never gave us any such template. The work of soul winning would have suffered a great setback without this template.

Even our Lord Jesus didn't give us this template. His emphasis was just to believe in him. But Paul went further to say that we must confess what we believe to be saved. And it was the Lord Jesus who revealed it to him. So, Jesus is the source of Paul's revelation.

Our Lord Jesus said that he had so many things to say but he couldn't say them because the disciples didn't have the capacity to receive them at that time. So he said that the other things we need to know will be revealed by the Holy Spirit who he will send down.

So the writings of Paul are divine revelations given to him by the Holy Spirit. They are not his personal opinions. He let us know a few times he gave his personal opinions.

So, it's absurd for anyone to discredit the writings of Paul. They are divine revelations from Christ himself without which the church would have been in the dark and the work of soul winning committed to our trust would have suffered a setback.

I will unveil more of this unique revelation in this thread.

You are free to make your comments but they should be backed up with scriptures.

Jackanda1:
God gives to a born again person what is called 'Tender conscience' powered by the SPIRIT.

To former christians now atheist. Remember when you were in christ and commited sin, you felt so much guilt and dirt, even something seemingly tiny like lusting after the opposite sex or telling white lies gave you so much discomfort that you had to kneel down,confess and repent.

Remember when you were able to believe and accept all the messges given by your preacher.

You had much confidence when you read the bible or prayed.

You had a fear of GOD and a desire to follow Him with so much joy.

All of these is as a result of this 'Tender conscience'.

When you start paying attention to atheism, you start drifting away from the SPIRIT of GOD, making it hard for Him to speak to you.

Most people believe in GOD but, the real children of God are those whom the Holyspirit speak to their conscience.

When you see yourself sinning and blaspheming God with no fear and guilt, you have seared your conscience(1timothy4:2-5).

The headline and the article are not in harmony. Please, change the headline.

MaxInDHouse:
I have proved that you're just a deluded fool as you can't back up what you're saying with the scriptures.
So you can continue the name calling regarding God's organization Jesus has already prepared our minds against your stupidity:

“A student is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the student to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household" Matthew 10:24-25

So you're free to continue in your stupidity i'm one of God's people working towards gathering faithful people throughout the earth under God's tent!

Zeal without knowledge.
Zeal without Christ.
All end in death and destruction.

This government just like to stress Nigerians without caring about the hard time they are going through.

This government should please hide their head in shame. Just find a way to survive without this government. It's not their fault. The church is sleeping.

MaxInDHouse:
Misinformed churchgoer!

You know that I am saying the truth. You also know that your lies have been exposed. But price will not let you admit them and leave that evil organization that has turned the Bible upside down. So, you prefer to go to hell than to humble yourself and repent from that evil organization.

Rahkman:
You know how much be carton of indomie ? Na 18000 u want make dem sell am 250 naira for you ode

Really? You mean for the smallest pack?

MaxInDHouse:
LIAR!

Can you now see that you're empty spiritually speaking?

1. You don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead.
2. You don't believe that Jesus is God in human flesh. Rather, you equate Jesus to an angel.
3. You don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a person.
4. You don't believe in the infilling with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
5. You don't believe in miracles and divine healing.
6. You don't believe that Jesus is coming back.
7. You don't believe in the reality of hell as a place where lost souls go to after death.
8. You don't believe that heaven is for every child of God. You say that only 144,000 will make heaven.
9. You don't believe that what we do on earth today will be used to judge us. You said that the record of our sins will be wiped off as soon as we die.
10. You don't believe that the dead is conscious.

Etc.

JW Organization are UNBElLIEVERS. They will all have their part in the Lake of fire which burns with brimestone.

But

MaxInDHouse:
LIAR!

Jesus established two things: SPIRITUALITY and RELIGION.

SPIRITUALITY is having a personal relationship with God this Jesus taught when he said:

"But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you" Matthew 6:6
That is direct access to the Almighty without anyone with you.

RELIGION is exclusive devotion to a God by participating in sacred services along with other faithful ones or adherents this Jesus taught when he said:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

The gathering has to do with individuals from different geographical locations and social status {Isaiah 2:2} thinking of how to carry out the task Jesus assigned to his disciples {Matthew 28:19-20} they will assemble as fellow believers! Hebrews 10:24-25

So if you're not doing these two things you're a worker of lawlessness who can't humbly work with others to obey the Lord Jesus! Matthew 7:21-23

Go and burn all your books full of lies. You are getting closer to your grave. Think about spending eternity in a burning flame because you refuse to accept the gospel. Don't waste this opportunity. Tomorrow is never guaranteed.

damosky12:
I am proud now?.. 🤣 For what? For not succumbing to your alcoholic "truth?" Beer parlour "truth!" Ah! Nairaland baffles me o.

You know what you're defending so hard? It's not alcohol o. It's a fallen devotion standard.

I know you are shocked to see that there is not a single scripture condemning drinking alcohol. Just show me one.

I don't drink alcohol by habit. I can stay years without tasting it. But I don't condemn Christians who take it. And the scripture don't either.

MaxInDHouse:
LIAR!

Jesus said:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.John 13:34-35

So what is the essense of this statement if his disciples are not known recognized as a group of religionists? Matthew 5:14-16

Did he say by these shall all men know that you are religious?

Religion is man own way of serving God. Christianity is God revealing himself to humanity. It's divinity at work in humanity.

MaxInDHouse:
LIAR!

Jews residing in Antioch saw and recognized a group of RELIGIONISTS and they remembered that these religionists are PRACTICING what the man called "CHRIST" laid down that's why they called them "CHRISTIANS" Act 11:26

Jesus Christ didn't come to start another religious movement. He came to give us eternal life. He came so we can partake of divine nature of God.

Aemmyjah:
You're ridiculous

You can't take it because you don't have the capacity to assimilate spiritual truths.

damosky12:
Can you calm down and read. Stop this bubbly hurrying to give a blanket rebuttal like this. I am believing you have self-control.

Respond paragraph by paragraph if it'll help. Go over it. Then respond by reasoning from scriptures. That's what I did. Not this "it's your opinion" fallacy. Show that the scripture contradicts my stance. Do the epistles tilt more towards encouraging alcoholism or discouraging it?

And bracket your bias for a second. I'm believing you can. Na "4 Christ" dey your name so. The evidence is before you!

Please stop being proud. Accept the truth. The scripture only cautious against drunkenness. And I proved it to you. But you are saying, don't drink so you don't get drunk. It's a good counsel and your personal opinion.

I am saying that the one who drinks and don't get drunk hasn't committed any sin unless it is done in manners and ways as to cause a weak soul to stumble.

damosky12:
Awesome study. I see you found amongst those expressions, "not given to wine" (alcohol in that context). You also found the use of "excess of wine," "not given to much wine."

The word, "given" there is word that relates to a habit. See... It's a word for craving. That's instructive.

Now, the use of "much wine," "excess wine," etc. was not a license for the church to indulge the appetite with alcohol. That's been a common beer parlor justification.

Wear your thinking cap, Jesus condemns drunkenness. His Apostles did same. And it's unquestionable. Hence, their use of "not given much wine," cannot mean "given to small wine."

In 1Tim 3:3 and Titus 1:7, He outrightly says "not given to wine." In other words, he doesn't have an habit of taking alcohol. No use of much or excess.




If you read the context of this portion, it has nothing to do with alcohol. You are reading your mind into it. It had to do with food offered to idols. Full stop. And why? The answer is in verses 4 to 6. There's nothing like an idol. Jesus Christ rules over them all. So that "liberty" is theological one. It's an exercise of dominion over idols.

Alcohol isn't part of this liberty o. 🤣 Alcohol? Liberty ke?

Now see my main point again: I don't encourage believers to indulge their appetite with alcohol. The Apostles didn't. Why?

1. Drunkenness which comes from taking alcohol is sin. And being GIVEN TO alcohol begins with taking a bottle for fun.

If I want to help a believer live without worries of falling into alcohol addiction (as the point you even made), I would teach staying clear! Why? Drunkenness and being given to drinking are lurking.

2. There is no Biblical measure of the amount of alcohol that will get you drunk. You can use alcohol. To cook. To make medicine. But drinking is to indulge your appetite for it.

There is no saying how much of it you'll take to get drunk. Some would be drunk after a cup. Some, after a bottle.


CONCLUSION: Let's shelve this beer parlour justifications and do better things. No godly pastor would infer in his teachings that christians who don't take alcohol can go ahead to try it out.

That's where a christian should be. We are not unbelievers who glorify our flesh that much.

You are going round in circles.

I repeat that the Bible never said don't drink alcoholic drinks. It only condemns drunkenness which you have also noted. Your point is don't drink at all to avoid the temptation of getting drink. And I said that is your personal opinion. The scripture never said that.

Not given to wine simply means to get addicted to it. It never said, don't drink wine.

The one who drinks and didn't get drunk has not sinned. Period.

Father4all:
Eye service kee the soldier. Do Military people pay for transportation

Of course they do. It's only the irresponsible ones that use their uniforms to intimidate transporters and refuse to pay. I have been in transport buses where military personnel pay for their transport. There is no where in the Constitution that says transportation should be made free for military personnel.

MaxInDHouse:
You've been exposed already as you can't find any group of worshipers practicing what you want to claim as Christianity!

We don't practice Christianity because it's not a religion. We live the Christ life in us. Christ has become our life. He lives in us and we manifest his life and character on a daily basis.

Aemmyjah:
Jesus gave his life and body for mankind and took it back shey
Mr sense

Life of the flesh is in the blood. And it is the blood that makes atonement for sins. His blood has been shed. The glorious body he resurrected with has no blood. His new life is not sustained by blood. It is sustained by the Spirit of God.

This is why he told Thomas that a spirit has no flesh and bones. He didn't say, flesh and blood.

So, the new body of Christ has no blood. But it has flesh and bones.

damosky12:
I carefully read all you typed. Please, read this too line by line. Don't skim through.

This is a fallacy of false equivalence. Its basic logic! This scenario doesn't align with the scenario of taking alcohol.

Indulging your appetite with alcohol isn't necessary for anything in life. It's not courtship. It's not eating. It's not sleeping. It's not central to normal life. Biko Why this forced uneven equivalence?

Also, self-control is to stay away from it. If I can't control my appetite to stay away, one bottle may become two. On a day you feel down, it could become a crate. Especially in this age of abundance of alcohol.

So, it's Christian practice to self control from the fanaticism about alcohol.



This your constant repetition of this woman woman has me concerned. Are you really battling lust?



This theology is disturbing! I guess Jesus didn't know this when He constantly flouted the ordinances of Moses.

Pause, open your Bible, go read the story of Jesus' stance in the first few chapters of John 8. Read the first few chapters of Matt 19 (to verse 6). I could send more, but you may be impatient.

Now, see this:

Galatians 5:4
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:19,21
[19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[9]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[10]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Note also that Paul writes that practicing an aspect of the law as a justification from the law (i.e. circumcisions) is to be a debtor to the whole law. Galatians 5:3

Anyone with a wholesome knowledge of the Bible knows that the law wasn't written to you. You LITERALLY cannot cherrypick ordinances of the law that justify your obsession or lust whilst leaving the rest.

Abi should buying slaves because the law of Moses permits it? Or I should utterly destroy enemies that oppose God because the law permits it. There's a reason why Jesus and then His Apostles were hated by those Jews. And there's a reason why the early believers were called CHRISTians.

Shelve your activism for alcohol for a sec. Wear thinking caps.



Well, the singular difference is this:
Romans 6:14
[14]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It's not hard to see that grace and law don't mix. You are not a disk jockey that will mix some part of the law that justifies your appetite with some parts of grace that suits you.

The law had its purpose; that purpose was to lead the ancient Israelites in the times they were and in the unrefined culture they lived in to grace. All the ordinances had symbolic meanings that aren't for us. This includes that one verse you're using to justify your alcohol. Read.


Galatians 3:24-25
[24]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You see why, if you want to follow the school master that is done away with, you are a DEBTOR to do all. You can't seek justifications from the law. That makes you a debtor for all the law. You choose a part.


2 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13]And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


You see. You can't cherrypick the law, especially the ordinances.



Paul need not write everything explicitly. For instance, he didn't wrote to Timothy to flee youthful lusts (in 2Tim 2). The word he used was "epithumia." it's a Greek word also often used by Plato. It means "an unhealthy longing." It's an expression that has to do with appetite. So, he needs not tell Timothy not to fornicate or to use porn. That covers it.

Is alcoholism an unhealthy longing?
Answer that. Can a bottle spring to two bottles and more?
Do you stand a chance of drunkenness or getting attached to alcoholism when you indulge your appetite with alcohol.

Now Paul severely warned against drunkenness. Jesus did, too.



Dogma is a philosophical term that connote unreasoned beliefs that are strongly held to. They have no basis.

Here's a simple reasoning against alcoholism for a Christian.

If I would flee sin, I would practice not indulging my appetite with anything that may lead me to sin. Especially when the thing is not a necessity and has no important connection with my existence.

So many believers out of devotion to God don't indulge their appetite with alcohol. Drinking is where drunkenness starts from. Why not avoid drinking which you can?


Caveat: If you drink, I am not condemning you. This thread, written years ago, wasn't for that purpose at all. But the ideal Christian conduct is to be clean from such indulgence.

I don't know why this is raising much dust!

I never said that we should follow what the Law instructed. Christ ended the law but it's righteous requirements was not abolished.

The point I am making is that alcoholic drinks were neither condemned in the old or the new testament. So, there is consistency. What you are saying is a personal opinion. And personal opinion is not the word of God.

Below are what our Lord Jesus, Apostle Paul and Apostle Peter said concerning it. Don't add to it. Let's stick to what the word of God says;


Our Lord Jesus only Condemned Drunkeness!

“But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, AND TO BE DRUNKEN.” (Luke 12:45).

“And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and DRUNKENNESS, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.” (Luke 21:34).

Apostle Paul also Condemned Drunkenness Only.

“Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and DRUNKENNESS, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.” (Romans 13:13).

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, OR A DRUNKARD, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.” (1 Corinthians 5:11).

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, NOR DRUNKARDS, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Envyings, murders, DRUNKENNESS, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:21).

“And BE NOT DRUNK WITH WINE, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.” (Ephesians 5:18).

In all these passages, Paul didn’t say, don’t drink wine. But he condemned drunkenness and cautioned on taking wine in excess.

Another verse reads;

“NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous” (1st Timothy 3:3).

In the instructions given to deacons, he wrote;

“Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, NOT GIVEN TO MUCH WINE, not greedy of filthy lucre.” (1st Timothy 3:.

To the Bishops, he also admonished;

“For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not given to filthy lucre.” (Titus 1:7).

And to the aged women, he said;

“The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, NOT GIVEN TO MUCH WINE, teachers of good things.” (Titus 2:3).

You see the consistency of Apostle admonition concerning drinking of wine. There is no single verse he condemned it. He only cautioned against its excesses.

Apostle Peter’s Comment on The Subject.

“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, EXCESS OF WINE, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries.” (1st Peter 4:3).

Here Peter only condemned the excess of wine like Paul said. However, there are manner and ways you take it that could cause your brother to stumble. Hence Paul said;

“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.” (Romans 14:21).

How can you cause someone to stumble when you take wine? If a new member of your church who is already addicted to wine comes to you for counselling on how he could free himself from that addiction. Then he sees you with one bottle of alcohol on your table, he will certainly will be embolden to continue. And it is worse if you are a Pastor he was looking up to.

Therefore, there are times we refrain from exercising our liberty for the sake of the weaker brethren in our midst.

“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.” (1 Corinthians 8:13).

MaxInDHouse:
Even atheists, agnostics, Muslims and Judaists have published countless books about Jesus of Nazareth, has it stop everyone from believing in Jesus?

No one can go against the truth. Jesus is the truth. But lies doesn't endure forever. Your lies will be exposed.

damosky12:
First, google "fallacy of false equivalence."

Dating, btw, isn't a Bible practice. Let's say courting. Courting or speaking with a woman on nothing sexual or lustful is will in no way lead you to fornication.

But taking alcohol would. It's like tempting yourself... If the Bible calls drunkenness (intoxication) sin, I want to flee indulging my appetite with alcohol in its totality.




Under the OT, the Jews were instructed to offer burnt offerings, to not shape their hair, to kill children that insult their parents, to kill/banish fornicators or adulterers, etc.

Don't cherrypick Bible verses. If you want to live by the law, let's know you want to.

Here's the simple point. Think through it. If alcohol is what leads to drunkenness, why should I practice indulging my appetite with it? Is it compulsory to take it? Is it necessary? Is it important? And cant it cause you to stumble (figuratively and literally, yes).

As a personal devotion to God and to His word, many Christians don't take it. And that's the ideal, virtuous mindset.

I can take alcohol and not get drunk because I have the spirit of self control.

Courting with a lady you love that is not yet your wife can also tempt you to fornicate. If it doesn't, why do we here stories of women getting pregnant before marriage even in the church.

Temptation is not in drinking alone. Even looking at a woman can cause you to sin. So, will you pluck your eyes off?

I sure know that we are not under the Law but the Law of Moses never gave unrighteous instructions. The scripture says that the Law is holy. So even the instruction to purchase strong drink was a holy one.

The difference between those under grace is that we have the ability to put the flesh under control.

Even in the letters of Paul to the churches, he never said that they should never take wine. Are you greater than Paul?

Paul only said, do not drink wine in excess. Please, renew your mind and stop making dogmas doctrines.

Aemmyjah:
The woman who was one of those who came everyday to spice his body and only on sabbath that she could not go
Just about 24 hours of not seeing his face could not recognize him
What of the disciples
What of Cephas

If u lose your best and you were with the body and after a whole day, you saw him, you won't recognize him?
De play

They did eventually recognized him. Like I said, the event of his death was so shocking and that was the talk of the Town. And they were not expecting to see him. You know that most of the Jews have resemblance because of their dress culture. This is why those who arrested Jesus needed a disciple to identify him.

Repent from your lies that cannot be substantiated with scriptures. Rather, there are too many evidences against your lies.

Even Jesus said, 'destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days'. And the scripture says it was referring to the temple of his body.

I am really shocked on how dumb the adherents of JW are. They don't even use their senses.