₦airaland Forum

damosky12:
Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for STRONG DRINK, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household

damosky12:
Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

I never said drunkenness is inferred as a sin, I said drinking. And there is a marked difference between both.

Fornication is a sin also. Does it mean you will not date or get close to the opposite sex because you don't want to fornicate? The argument is in the same direction. Stop defending doctrines of Old that is not backed up by scripture. After all, under the Old Testament, the Jews were instructed to use their money to buy strong drink and make merry in a yearly feast they organize. And that God of Israel is still our God today.

The only way make food cheap in Nigeria is for government to find ways to increase agricultural produce 10 times it's current rate. All local government, states and federal government should be involved. Maybe a factory set up for fufu production.

When there are excesses, price will drop.

It's takes a mad person to exchange words or fight with a mad man.

MaxInDHouse:
Did you study it with JWs to know what the book is saying or you just read with your Hellfire doctrine thought?

You make me laugh. Don't worry. I am just very busy. But I will expose all the lies in your book very soon. I am sure it will be published before the end of the year.

damosky12:
You seem so fixated on this "not condemning" people who drink. Yet that has no bearing with this discussion. Feels like you're fighting a personal experience or something. Lol.

Well, the Bible doesn't even teach condemning any sinner, even fornicators, adulterers, etc. The godly thing is to restore them in love.

I am not fighting a personal experience. I don't drink alcohol. I didn't even drink it when I was not yet saved. I am only correcting the wrong notion that drinking alcohol is sin. It's not in the Bible. It is not even inferred.

Aemmyjah:
Do you have any sense?
You'll rather believe someone that says Abraham's bosom has been turned into hellfire cos that tickles your ear
Jesus gave up his perfect life and body for us
That was the temple that was torn down
And he was raised on the third day
Why then did his disciples not recognize him when he appeared to them including his female disciples?

It's possible to stand before someone you know and not recognize it's the person. Usually it happens when you are so much engrossed in thoughts that you almost loose touch with your environment.

It happened to me once. I traveled and came back. I was greeted by my twin brother and I looked in his direction, answered him and didn't know he was the one. It was a few seconds later I realized he was the one.

So, please look for something else to defend your lies. There is no single scripture that suggest that Jesus left his body behind. His body was transformed. And the scripture says that our bodies will be transformed too.

damosky12:
Church fathers teaching you to stay off alcohol is not bad. Isn't it better to stay away if you can't tell how or when drunkenness may befall you?

Except you have a wild appetite, I don't get why anyone would be obsessed about searching out the Bible just to find justification for taking alcohol!

Here's the simple point: drunkenness starts with taking alcohol.
Is taking alcohol important to your existence?

Must you take alcohol to live your regular life?

Will you be okay if you stay off alcohol?

Do you stand a beter chance to avoid falling into the sin of drunkenness by avoiding alcohol altogether?

Answer all these in your mind. It's precise! It all boils down on level of personal devotion to God.

Leave story.

It's a good counsel to tell people to avoid drinking alcohol. I agree with you. But don't condemn anyone who drinks it and didn't get drunk. This is my point. Our church fathers are not the standard for Christian living. It's the Bible.

I think that there are a few intelligent police officers. In any case, they are also affected by the hardship. They are tired of being zombies. I hope the soldiers too will join one day.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy if you're seeking attention i'm not ready for that nonsense this afternoon.

I told you we believe that Jesus resurrected and that he is both Lord and Christ to us.

So if you need further explanation go and ask JWs in your neighbourhood!

I have your book, You can live forever in paradise on earth. So, I know what I am saying. Do you want me to quote from the pages of the book?

damosky12:
The Bible is precise about drunkenness. Not "excess eating." Read the original post again.

You'd often find the expression "not given to wine" as an ideal Christian conduct. 1 Timothy 3:3.

Pay attention.
Here's the simple point: drunkenness starts with taking alcohol. Is taking alcohol important to your existence?
Must you take alcohol to live your regular life?
Will you be okay if you stay off alcohol?
Do you stand a beter chance to avoid falling into the sin of drunkenness by avoiding alcohol altogether?

Answer all these in your mind. It's precise! It all boils down on level of personal devotion to God.

We are saying the same thing. Yes drunkenness starts with a little drink. It's up to you to have self control. But you can't say someone has committed a sin because he drank alcohol. So, there is no where in the scripture where it says, don't drink alcoholic wine.

I don't drink it by habit. But I don't condemn someone who drinks it. Neither did the Bible condemns those who drink it. The issue is just a mindset thing. We have been taught by our church fathers that it's a sin to drink alcoholic drink but we never cared to search if it's so in the scripture.

damosky12:
Fair observation. And you're right. But drunkenness starts with drinking. And there's no measure for what measure makes drunken or what doesn't.

Hence, caution is to choose to never be given to it. We must choose to take the truth even if it's against our appetite or craving.

It still doesn't make it a sin. Even excess eating is sin. Does it mean you will not eat because you are afraid of eating excess?

MaxInDHouse:
That is what all members of Jehovah's Witnesses organization believes so learn what each phrase means!

Why are you lying to your teeth? You know that your organization says that Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily. So, you don't believe that God raised him from the dead.

You don't even teach that people can be saved through the process of believing and confessing Jesus.

damosky12:
https://www.nairaland.com/4397144/daddy-freeze-reacts-shina-peller


The link above leads to the thread that surfaced on the front page earlier today in which the controversial OAP, Freeze, was quoted to have made a rather unfounded assertion that Jesus drank alcohol. He was quoted thus:


When Jesus was alive he drank alcohol and was accused to be in the presence of sinners (possibly in Night Clubs) so enjoying a bottle of Champagne or Henny with coke and ice at quilox in responsibility and moderation is actually Christ like.
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◄ Matthew 11:19 ►
NIV
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' ----- What could he have been drinking that they labeled him a drunkard? Lucozade boost?
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More so, another reason to patronize them lies in the fact that the club employs people who earn a living through it and it pays taxes as instructed by our first pastors, the disciples; something most pastors and churches are blatantly disobeying.


He seemed to have made this statement to advertise for the patronage of a nightclub and to call for a neglect of the church under the guise of contributing to the society.

He spoke of the nightclub to be responsible for employing people without pausing to consider that churches and institutions founded by churches (libraries, schools, housing estates,ets) provide far more employment than any nightclub.

The debate of who or who doesn't provide more employment is not the crux of this response, but to correct the rather heretic view that Jesus took alcohol.

Freeze quoted from Matthew 11:19 NIV

"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners."

and followed it up with a lame and uncritical commentary

"that could he have been drinking that they labeled him a drunkard? Lucozade boost?"


With a statement like this, he uncritically assumes the position that the accusers were right to have called Jesus a drunkard.
If this assumption is to be taken as true, that will mean they were right as well with other positions that they made in that portion of scripture. Let's check it contextually.


Matthew 11:18-19
[18]For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
[19]The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Jesus made the statement that he was eating and drinking in opposition to what John was known to do, fasting. Eating and drinking there was not to, by any means, refer to alcohol.


Jesus was clearly not presenting the people as truth speakers but rather haters of the truth. Hence, since they could FALSELY accuse John whom Jesus himself praised as the greatest of prophets (in verses 12-14 of the same chapter) of having a devil, their allegation against Jesus as a drunkard could NEVER have been true.

In other words, if Jesus took alcohol (as Freeze's logic leads him), then John the Baptist, the fore runner of Jesus had a devil, since the allegations came from the same source.

The tone of Jesus quote in itself is that of despair rather than passive. Why would Jesus have to say they called Him a drunkard if He really was? Its simple logic.


Where did the allegation against Jesus come from?

Matthew 9:10-13
[10]And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat (eating) in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
[11]And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
[12]But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
[13]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


As revealed above, Jesus once sat IN HIS HOUSE, eating (not in "Night Clubs" as Freeze suggests) and had the Sinners COME TO HIM. He didn't reject them(as the Pharisees would) but accepted them and shared HIS MEAL with them.

Note the immediate response of the Pharisees: "Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?". There was no alarm about Jesus being a drunkard. Of course, if they had seen Jesus drinking alcohol, they would have been quick to point that out.
But all they saw there is Jesus sharing His meal with them. Not drinking alcohol.

So, when Jesus said: "The Son of man came eating and drinking", any literate person can see that he wasn't, by the use of 'drinking', referring to alcohol. He was referring to eating and drinking as that which you do when you take your usual meal.


Besides, what did Jesus' Apostles teach about alcohol?

1 Corinthians 5:11
[11]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard , or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:21
[21]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Romans 13:13-14
[13] Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
[14]But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Why would such "red light signals" be given to Christians as regarding alcohol if Jesus was himself a drunkard?


Be watchful of Freeze's leaven if you are a lover of Christ.

1 Peter 5:8
[8]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Drinking alcohol is not explicitly a sin. It is drunkenness that the Bible condemns just as you quoted.

There are however manners and ways you drink it that can cause someone to stumble.

MaxInDHouse:
Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for the evident demonstration of reality even though they are not seen! Hebrews 11:1

Works is activities having to do with laws or written codes meant to fulfill a conventional task as noticed by observers

So Paul is talking about Christians in Galatia, this people were limping between two opinions whether to join other Christians in doing God's will as taught by Christ Jesus or to merge the two together by practicing what Judaists does in the temple! Galatians 3:1-3

So faith in Christ Jesus has nothing to do with the works of the Mosaic laws no human can fulfill what the Mosaic laws says completely that's why it's a curse {Galatians 3:10} God told their ancestors that He will later write His laws in their hearts {Jeremiah 31:33} this can only be possible if they're to look onto a human who perfectly did God's will and God Himself declared such a person approved! Matthew 17:5

By so doing faith in imitating such a person will save them from the curse of the laws that no one can perfectly practice!

The will of God is to believe in Jesus. This is where the journey of your faith begins. You must believe he died for you. You must also believe that God raised him up from the death. Finally, open your mouth and confess him as your Lord and Savior - Romans 10:9-10.

MindHacker9009:
The 10 Commandments
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

The God of Israel and True Judaism is the only true God.
He did not mate with Mary another mans wife to produce Himself and then offer Himself on the cross as a sacrifice to Himself.

It was never God's intention to relate with man through written laws. Abraham who is the Father of us all was declared righteous by faith and not because he obeyed certain written codes of instructions.

Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

When God promised that all the families of the earth will be blessed through him, there was no condition attached.

The promise was to come into effect through the seed of Abraham which is Christ.

But before the promise came into effect, he had to give them commandments and laws to obey. So, the commandments and laws were a temporary measure put in place until the revelation of Christ who came to fulfil God's original plan which is the faith life.

This is exactly what Paul explained in his letter to the church of Galatian;

Galatian 3:15-26
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Thus, the law of Moses has been abolished to give room for his original plan to be established.

The just shall live by faith. And the law is now written in our hearts. We are now in the dispensation of grace and not of the Law of Moses.

The only man of integrity I know that is currently in this government. If there are others, I don't know. He is someone I know personally many years back. More grace to him. This is why we need righteous people in power. I don't mind if he becomes the president of Nigeria in future.

Another opportunity to loot. This has been the pattern. We don't want free money. The money has no value. Rather focus on

1. Security. Put an end to the insecurity issue. Invade all the camps of terrorists and end it. Stop the kidnapping.

2. Constant power supply. Why will Nigeria supply other countries in West Africa light and their own light is steady. Constant light will help businesses to thrive. And it will reduce the cost of production which would in turn bring down prices.

3. Get all our refineries to work. Stop importing fuel and save foreign exchange. This will raise the value of naira.

4. Industrial revolution. Set up industries to start producing things that we import. This country is blessed with raw materials. Start producing Keke aka tricycle, mini buses, household items etc.

5. Agricultural revolution. Each LGA chairman should invest in agriculture in areas where they have comparative advantage. Our chairman are very lazy. The only investment most of them do is buy transport buses and put on the road. Agricultural should not be left to peasant farmers alone.

6. Make loans and grants easily accessible. This will enable small scale businesses to thrive and survive.

7. Open the border especially to rice importation. The closure of border to importation of rice is one of the factors responsible for high cost of food items. The truth is that the rice still gets in at higher cost because security personnel has to be bribed. And this also shoots up the prices of local rice because they have to fix the price as close to the foreign rice.

Kobojunkie:
It is an error nonetheless meaning the claim the book is without error —inerrant — is invalid.

It's a trivial error. The story is the same. The historical books are just records of what happened in God's dealing with Israel. They are not commandments. But they were included in the Bible so we can understand the ways of God and draw a moral lesson in God's dealing with the Jews.

It's only in Nigeria and probably some Africa countries that a leader knows he is incompetent but will never resign.

Chi1582020:
Who has dealt with the owner of this number 0808 432 2192. The user scammed me 480k

Sorry about that. What's the use of NIN if scammers can't easily be tracked?

Nonsense. They are only fighting for the civil servants. We need a holistic approach.

lexy2014:
was Wike governor of Rivers state for one year?

Ok. I get you. This is our money that just a few persons are stealing and we are watching helplessly.

Did they say N40 Trillion? How much is our budget for the year? How can allocation for LGA be higher than the year budget? Please someone should please give me an answer.

Why are we complaining? As big and as enlightenment that we are supposed to be, no one could go to court to stop him from contesting at least on the ground of his mental instability. He gaffed in most of his speeches during campaign. And we don't think mental stability is of utmost importance for the No 1 Job in a country like Nigeria. Pray he doesn't formally sell Nigeria.

Zaheertyler:
Why are people still dieing

Because our bodies are not yet redeemed. We are still living in the Old body that decays or subject to death. But the time is coming when we will put on a glorified body that will never die.

UncleAyo:
I would have prefer you say our lord Sango a Yoruba man turn God created me than say a Jewish man (from far away Middle East) whose historicity is still been debated creates me. Let us leave inferiority complex, embrace our local content too and make money with it.

I don't like to argue for arguement reason, I have nothing to gain from it; but I'm sure that in the future, you will come back here to read again this your logic and find them amusing.

Your local or traditional gods does not change lives. They don't offer you salvation. They are the works of men. They will all be eventually destroyed.

Jesus saves
Jesus is the maker of all things.
Jesus changes lives.
Jesus is the only sinless man that ever lived.
Jesus is Lord
Jesus is the head of all principalities and powers.
Every power bow to the name of Jesus.
Even your traditional gods or juju bows to the name of Jesus.
Every creature under heaven will be judged by Jesus.
Jesus owns all things.
Jesus is the only one who can cast you into the Lake of fire if you reject the free gift of salvation. You will be thrown away like a trash can. And it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not.

Steep:
you are mistaking me for someone else.

I am sorry about that.

FxMasterz:
Without adding 'apostle' to his name, you're not offending anyone. The title is not always necessary in written contents. Take for example, Billy Graham, David Oyedepo, W F. Kumuyi, Reinhard Bonkke, Morris Cerullo, Rod Parsley, etc. I listed all those names without adding any title, and yet it means nothing to anybody. There's nothing abnormal about that.

Pastor Adeboye for instance usually has the title 'Pastor' in his name only because, his first name 'Enoch' is not known by many. So, if you say 'Enoch Adeboye' without saying 'Pastor Adeboye' many people might not know who you're talking about.

When you say Johnson Suleiman, it carries no offence to anybody. When you add the term 'apostle', it becomes your personal endorsement. Mention his name without the title. Let the reader decide whether he is an apostle or not.

By constantly using the term 'apostle' in his name, you further make a mockery your post.

Noted.

Steep:
She argues senlessly for the purpose of argument, even when she contradicts herself she does not care. I pray God open her eyes to see that she is in darkness.

In spite of your submission that the Bible contains errors, Jesus is still changing lives. Miracles still happens at the mention of the name of Jesus. And it's only in Christ you have salvation.

You are concerned about the errors and forget the free gift of salvation available to you.

You will still be looking for more errors until your soul enter into that dreadful place called hell. Even in hell, you will still find errors.

UncleAyo:
Hell is only a manipulative tool use by men to control others. Hell does not exist, neither is there anything like heaven or life after death.

It does exist. There is no positive without a negative.

Where you have man, there is a woman.
Where you have good, you also have evil.
There is God and there is the devil.
So also, there is heaven and there is hell.

There are countless hundreds of testimonies of those who have been there and given a second chance to come back.

There are also those who through the supernatural power of God were permitted to visit hell and came back.

Our Lord Jesus who created you affirms it's existence.

Jesus actually went to hell so you will not have to go there.

He went there, fought with the devil and collected the keys of hell and death from him.

He rose again and ascended back to heaven before the very presence of his disciples.

The choice is yours. If you don't believe it, you will when you get there.

Even the Holy Spirit is speaking to your conscience right now as you are reading but you are hardening your heart.

Repent before it's too late before you regret for the rest of your life.

FxMasterz:
Do you remember there are false Apostles? No true apostle of Christ would bring the scriptures into disrepute.

No one becomes an apostle just because he says he is. The signature of God must be upon him.

I understand you clearly. Remember he has the endorsement of so many big church fathers we all know. That doesn't mean he is approved of God. But I am just being careful in my approach because there are people even within the church Ministry who are ready to kill to defend their own. I already have enough trouble. It's not everything I believe I say publicly so I can have less enemies and fulfil my ministry with the least persecutions from those who are supposing to lead by example.