ekt_bear:
I was under the impression that women getting married later/having kids later was due to more education? Not more jobs for women?

Can you link to any study suggesting that industrialization alone => lower pop growth?
 


Eh...again, how do you know that industrialization is responsible for the lower pop growth, rather than say the family planning you mentioned?



I'm not against industrialization. I am for it. But I am also for family planning. And I don't think that they are the same thing.


The divide argument doesn't really make any sense...PhysicsQED's seems to one more of perception. E.g., three 60 mil pop countries looks less bad than one 180 mil country or something. But it doesn't really solve the issue.

I'm also pro dividing Nigeria btw...but again, this in and of itself doesn't solve excessively high population growth.


In a nutshell, the best to solve this problem is to solve it directly (family planning/birth control) rather than hoping some other indirect route also solves it.

I did not say industrialization is the ONLY factor, neither did I assert that Industrialization ALONE can reduce population growth.


I based my assumption on research works like these from the UNFPA http://www.unfpa.org/6billion/populationissues/demographic.htm

There on the first paragraph the suggestion is clear that the more industrialized a region becomes, the less their population grows.

You can read this also ; http://m.voanews.com/learningenglish/rss.jsp?id=3133&rssid=25266971&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.voanews.com%2ftemplates%2fSingleArticle-mobiletech.rss%3fcontentID%3d83128752&cid=25228101&show=full

I also read and formed part of my opinion from this article on Brazil which I read months ago, You might enjoy it. Very interesting stuff.

Sample section below:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/09/girl-power/gorney-text

That new Brazilian fertility rate is below the level at which a population replaces itself. It is lower than the two-children-per-woman fertility rate in the United States. In the largest nation in Latin America[b]—a 191-million-person country where the Roman Catholic Church dominates, abortion is illegal (except in rare cases), and no official government policy has ever promoted birth control—family size has dropped so sharply and so insistently over the past five decades that the fertility rate graph looks like a playground slide.[/b]

And it's not simply wealthy and professional women who have stopped bearing multiple children in Brazil. There's a common perception that the countryside and favelas, as Brazilians call urban slums, are still crowded with women having one baby after another—but it isn't true. At the demographic center Carvalho helped found, located four hours away in the city of Belo Horizonte, researchers have tracked the decline across every class and region of Brazil. Over some weeks of talking to Brazilian women recently, I met schoolteachers, trash sorters, architects, newspaper reporters, shop clerks, cleaning ladies, professional athletes, high school girls, and women who had spent their adolescence homeless; almost every one of them said a modern Brazilian family should include two children, ideally a casal, or couple, one boy and one girl. Three was barely plausible. One might well be enough. In a working-class neighborhood on the outskirts of Belo Horizonte, an unmarried 18-year-old affectionately watched her toddler son one evening as he roared his toy truck toward us; she loved him very much, the young woman said, but she was finished with childbearing. The expression she used was one I'd heard from Brazilian women before: "A fábrica está fechada." The factory is closed.

The emphatic fertility drop is not just a Brazilian phenomenon. Notwithstanding concerns over the planet's growing population, close to half the world's population lives in countries where the fertility rates have actually fallen to below replacement rate, the level at which a couple have only enough children to replace themselves—just over two children per family. They've dropped rapidly in most of the rest of the world as well, with the notable exception of sub-Saharan Africa.

For demographers working to understand the causes and implications of this startling trend, what's happened in Brazil since the 1960s provides one of the most compelling case studies on the planet. Brazil spans a vast landmass, with enormous regional differences in geography, race, and culture, yet its population data are by tradition particularly thorough and reliable. Pieces of the Brazilian experience have been mirrored in scores of other countries, including those in which most of the population is Roman Catholic—but no other nation in the world seems to have managed it quite like this.

"What took 120 years in England took 40 years here," Carvalho told me one day. "Something happened." At that moment he was talking about what happened in São Vicente de Minas, the town of his childhood, where nobody under 45 has a soccer-team-size roster of siblings anymore. But he might as well have been describing the entire female population of Brazil. For although there are many reasons Brazil's fertility rate has dropped so far and so fast, central to them all are tough, resilient women who set out a few decades back, without encouragement from the government and over the pronouncements of their bishops, to start shutting down the factories any way they could.

Ekt_ bear, just to be clear, I'm not saying industrialization is the ONLY factor, I'm simply saying evidence exist showing that it is a factor. In American history they have a period commonly known as the gilded age when mass movement of people especially women from farms to cities for industrial labour jobs led to reduction in family sizes. You can google info about that. Sorry I'm a bit too tired to dig up scholarly research work now. Check jstor too.

ekt_bear: Yeah I'm just not sold on industrialization alone being what will slow down pop growth.

If a ton of manufacturing jobs spring up in nigeria and unemployment drops to say 10% or 15%, probably people will actually start having more kids. Since there is more money available.

I think family planning/birth control is needed. And this needs to be done independently of industrialization, not just as a supposed consequence of it.

I think the point people are making about industrialization and pop is that an increased access to jobs brought about via industrialization might reduce the need to have more kids. Hence slowing down pop. Growth.

This can be true.  

1. If industrialization lead to more women getting jobs, and it should  (a) they will marry much later (b) be less dependent on men (c) have less time or motivation to raise a bunch kids

This (1) example is already true in highly industrialized countries in Europe and North America. There are tons of research and examples proving this to be so. 

2. Industrialization cannot exist in a vaccum, I'm certain other things like access to education and information, will accompany it or even catalyze it, those factors are known to cause attitudinal changes which can lead to better family planning.

Something like that is happening in brazil, where women are seeing the need to have less children as the country industrialized and provided more access to jobs and financial power for them.



Having said that, yes, we cannot achieve much if we don't proactively enforce birth control policies. All these things have to work together, I'm not certain one single factor can fix this. 

The divide argument: 

I may be wrong, but I think the "divide and the problem will go away" point being made by PhysicsQED is based on the premise that some parts of the country have a significantly slower pop. growth than others I.e North vs South. The report also made that point. Now if that is true, then dividing it might make the problem seem less daunting, because then we have no Nigeria with x% of pop growth. The % will be considerably lower. Also, if one of the major reasons for this growth in say The North are cultural, then that becomes the problem of The North which will then be a new country.

Bottomline, we have a problem and we need to address it, there are several examples in human history to copy from. The ball is in our court really.

. A Jonathan presidency and amnesty for militants were not a part of our demands and therefore will never be a solution to armed agitation for justice in the Niger Delta - MEND 

Na only Tamuno go fit tell us who be the real MEND

Apologies for my off-topic comment.

strangerf: I saw it coming.

Abject under PDP, decieved by the pseudo-progressive ACN, will the real Yorubas stand up please . . .

Stranger, Your signature kinda describes a very interesting concept in international relations and military studies, called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) based on the theory of "detterence" albeit on a micro level.

MAD is concerned with weapons of mass destruction like the Nuclear bomb. But handguns can fit in too, if we all carry guns it might cause a potential attacker to think thrice before approaching.

I think many people will die on the lower side of the learning curve though, that is before the reality kicks in.

@naijababe, that is sad. I think some self-help is needed in that axis. I'm wary of unregulated vigilantes, but OPC or some sort of local vigilantes are necessary at this stage. People's lives and properties are at stake.

Negro_ntns,

There's a document out there on SW development with a major focus on integration to help effectively manage resources. It's great on paper. That is a plan. I now expect implementation. If it cannot be fully implemented they can amend it and push forward with whatever they can get consensus on.

And like naijababe said, campaign promises and manifestos were released when they asked for our votes, that was a plan. We now expect implementation.

I've not given up on them totally and I understand the structural problems we have, but people need to see some local results. Politics is too brutal for this kind of slow drag.

naijababe:

Not impressed?! Try utterly and completely disappointed. The chef man in Ogun State has done f/cuk all and the most painful part for me now is how the citizenry of Ijebu-Ode & its environs continue to suffer from the terrors of bandits, yet Mr Chef won't stop yapping about OGD

It's disappointing I know.

What's up with bandits and violence in Ijebu Ode? He needs to make more noise about that if the federally controlled police won't do their jobs. I know resources are kinda low, but this honeymoon period won't last, time to focus on the people, at the end of the day, all politics are local.

On integration: nice idea, but it's best to go ahead with those who are ready to start, If Mimiko is not ready, move on with those who are. Maybe results will convince him. His people are not blind now. Time for action jare.

One year is enough to get a clear vision defined and start acting. So far, I'm not impressed at all.

Gbawe: I personally don't care about folks doing that , i.e supporting GEJ blindly and against what they agitated for yesterday, because I know power is transient. What I resent is the current witch-hunt determined to demonize the region that rejected the PDP totally and is ready to break away from 'begging bowl' dependency that sees States indolently relying on the FG for everything instead of seeking to control and accelerate their own development.

Power is transient indeed.

But sadly, Kile to pa Osika, Ohun rere a ti baje.

Some will shamefully mouth "parasite" against the SW but they should tell us which region and political Party believes, as core ideology, in true fiscal federalism, agressive increment in IGR, regional interdependence and cooperation, State Police and many other ideas that , beyond mere lip service, truly moves Nigerian States and regions towards the 'holy grail' of self-paced development.

They are handicapped by their own complicity and can't act on those fundamental issues. Their benefactors, the owners of Nigeria, won't allow it.





But Gbawe, ACN needs to work harder too, especially in the House of Assembly. I know they are a minority and their resources pales in comparison with the ruling party. But we elected them to act as a true opposition in the HOA not just at state levels. We need more noise, more bills, more PR work on these fundamental issues from the ACN. We need them to build sensible alliances too.

We can't change PDP, but we must work at convincing more of our people that there are alternatives. They need to ramp up their call for these alternatives and get more people to understand why we need them. That is the burden they've carried as an opposition party and they must get busier with it.

I Was Not The Best Candidate For The Job In 2011
Sani Tukur


President Goodluck Jonathan said on Saturday in Abuja that himself, the Vice President, and all state governors were not the best candidates during the 2011 general election.

The president claimed that God selected them as leaders  even when they were not the best materials available. 

“By God's grace, this government will not fail. I know Nigeria will change, I always make my supplications to God that in selecting me as the President of this country, the Vice President, the Governors, members of the National Assembly, the Ministers, we are not the best material, but God knows why he choose us and we pray he should use us to change this country,”. He said. 

The president was speaking at the Second Presidential National Prayer Breakfast held at the Banquet Hall of the State House, Abuja. 

Mr. Jonathan said he is fully aware of the enormous responsibilities placed on his shoulders especially at a time the country is facing serious security challenges.  He however said that he relies on God to see him through. 

“I am aware that the task of national transformation is a daunting one, I am however more aware that there is nothing that God cannot do. With Him on our side I am confident every stumbling block on our way shall become a stepping stone into national rebirth. I assure you that I will strive at all times for the greatest good of the greatest number guided always by the fear of God,” the president said. 

Mr. Jonathan said only the fear of God and rededication to the realisation of the ‘grand vision of one big strong multi ethnic, multi cultural, diverse but united nation’ could see the nation's leaders through the challenges posed at these times. 

“With unwavering faith in God and renewed recommitment to the national cause by us all, I am confident that Nigeria will emerge from these trying times a stronger, more united, more stable and more prosperous nation,” he added. 

The President of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), Ayo Oritsejafor, delivered the sermon, titled “The Power of the Alter”. 

The occasion was attended by the former Head of state, Yakubu Gowon; Head of the Interim  National Government, Ernest Shonekan; the Vice President of Kenya, Kalonzo Musyoka; the Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives, Emeka Ihedioha; and Governors Godswill Akpabio of Akwa Ibom, Jonah Jang of Plateau, Peter Obi of Anambra and Adams Oshiomhole of Edo. 

Also in attendance were some ministers and other presidential aides.

http://premiumtimesng.com/news/national/4651-was-not-the-best-candidate-2011-says-Jonathan.html

At the end of the day, this "oyel" can't be enough.

Even if we share it equally. . too many mouths to feed, too little resources (except for maybe human resources) a big "maybe"

. .Plus very little attempt at increasing productivity? e go hard.

Nigeria Tested By Rapid Rise in Population
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

Published April 14, 2012

LAGOS, Nigeria — In a quarter-century, at the rate Nigeria is growing, 300 million people — a population about as big as that of the present-day United States — will live in a country the size of Arizona and New Mexico. In this commercial hub, where the area’s population has by some estimates nearly doubled over 15 years to 21 million, living standards for many are falling


Lifelong residents like Peju Taofika and her three granddaughters inhabit a room in a typical apartment block known as a “Face Me, Face You” because whole families squeeze into 7-by-11-foot rooms along a narrow corridor. Up to 50 people share a kitchen, toilet and sink — though the pipes in the neighborhood often no longer carry water.

At Alapere Primary School, more than 100 students cram into most classrooms, two to a desk.

As graduates pour out of high schools and universities, Nigeria’s unemployment rate is nearly 50 percent for people in urban areas ages 15 to 24 — driving crime and discontent.

The growing upper-middle class also feels the squeeze, as commutes from even nearby suburbs can run two to three hours.

Last October, the United Nations announced the global population had breached seven billion and would expand rapidly for decades, taxing natural resources if countries cannot better manage the growth.

Nearly all of the increase is in sub-Saharan Africa, where the population rise far outstrips economic expansion. Of the roughly 20 countries where women average more than five children, almost all are in the region.

Elsewhere in the developing world, in Asia and Latin America, fertility rates have fallen sharply in recent generations and now resemble those in the United States — just above two children per woman. That transformation was driven in each country by a mix of educational and employment opportunities for women, access to contraception, urbanization and an evolving middle class. Whether similar forces will defuse the population bomb in sub-Sarahan Africa is unclear.

“The pace of growth in Africa is unlike anything else ever in history and a critical problem,” said Joel E. Cohen, a professor of population at Rockefeller University in New York City. “What is effective in the context of these countries may not be what worked in Latin America or Kerala or Bangladesh.”

Across sub-Saharan Africa, alarmed governments have begun to act, often reversing longstanding policies that encouraged or accepted large families. Nigeria made contraceptives free last year, and officials are promoting smaller families as a key to economic salvation, holding up the financial gains in nations like Thailand as inspiration.

Nigeria, already the world’s sixth most populous nation with 167 million people, is a crucial test case, since its success or failure at bringing down birthrates will have outsize influence on the world’s population. If this large nation rich with oil cannot control its growth, what hope is there for the many smaller, poorer countries?

“Population is key,” said Peter Ogunjuyigbe, a demographer at Obafemi Awolowo University in the small central city of Ile-Ife. “If you don’t take care of population, schools can’t cope, hospitals can’t cope, there’s not enough housing — there’s nothing you can do to have economic development.”

The Nigerian government is rapidly building infrastructure but cannot keep up, and some experts worry that it, and other African nations, will not act forcefully enough to rein in population growth. For two decades, the Nigerian government has recommended that families limit themselves to four children, with little effect.

Although he acknowledged that more countries were trying to control population, Parfait M. Eloundou-Enyegue, a professor of development sociology at Cornell University, said, “Many countries only get religion when faced with food riots or being told they have the highest fertility rate in the world or start worrying about political unrest.”

In Nigeria, experts say, the swelling ranks of unemployed youths with little hope have fed the growth of the radical Islamist group Boko Haram, which has bombed or burned more than a dozen churches and schools this year.

Internationally, the African population boom means more illegal immigration, already at a high, according to Frontex, the European border agency. There are up to 400,000 undocumented Africans in the United States.

Nigeria, like many sub-Saharan African countries, has experienced a slight decline in average fertility rates, to about 5.5 last year from 6.8 in 1975. But this level of fertility, combined with an extremely young population, still puts such countries on a steep and disastrous growth curve. Half of Nigerian women are under 19, just entering their peak childbearing years.

Women Left Behind

Statistics are stunning. Sub-Saharan Africa, which now accounts for 12 percent of the world’s population, will account for more than a third by 2100, by many projections.

Because Africa was for centuries agriculturally based and sparsely populated, it made sense for leaders to promote high fertility rates. Family planning, introduced in the 1970s by groups like Usaid, was initially regarded as foreign, and later on, money and attention were diverted from family planning to Africa’s AIDS crisis.

“Women in sub-Saharan Africa were left behind,” said Jean-Pierre Guengant, director of research at the Research Institute for Development, in Paris. The drastic transition from high to low birthrates that took place in poor countries in Asia, Latin America and North Africa has yet to happen here.


That transition often brings substantial economic benefits, said Eduard Bos, a population specialist at the World Bank. As the last large population group reaches working age, the number of adults in the labor force is high relative to more dependent groups — the young and the elderly — for a time. If managed well, that creates capital that can be used to improve health and education and to develop new industries.
Multimedia

Africa's Population Peril
 
And that has happened elsewhere. Per-capita gross domestic product in Latin America, Asia and North Africa increased between three and six times as population was brought under control, Dr. Guengant said. During that same period it has increased only marginally in many African countries, despite robust general economic growth.

In Nigeria, policymakers are studying how to foster the transition, and its attendant financial benefits, here. In the ramshackle towns of the Oriade area near Ile-Ife, where streets are lined with stalls selling prepaid cellphone cards and food like pounded yam, Dr. Ogunjuyigbe’s team goes door to door studying attitudes toward family size and how it affects health and wealth. Many young adults, particularly educated women, now want two to four children. But the preferences of men, particularly older men, have been slower to change — crucial in a patriarchal culture where polygamy is widespread.

At his concrete home in the town of Ipetumodu, Abel Olanyi, 35, a laborer, said he has four children and wants two more. “The number you have depends on your strength and capacity,” he said, his wife sitting silently by his side.

Large families signal prosperity and importance in African cultures; some cultures let women attend village meetings only after they have had their 11th child. And a history of high infant mortality, since improved thanks to interventions like vaccination, makes families reluctant to have fewer children.

Muriana Taiwo, 45, explained that it was “God’s will” for him to have 12 children by his three wives, calling each child a “blessing” because so many of his own siblings had died.

In a deeply religious country where many Roman Catholics and Muslims oppose contraception, politicians and doctors broach the topic gingerly, and change is slow. Posters promote “birth spacing,” not “birth control.” Supplies of contraceptives are often erratic.

Cultural Factors

In Asian countries, women’s contraceptive use skyrocketed from less than 20 percent to 60 to 80 percent in decades. In Latin America, requiring girls to finish high school correlated with a sharp drop in birthrates.

But contraceptive use is rising only a fraction of a percent annually — in many sub-Saharan African nations, it is under 20 percent — and, in surveys, even well-educated women in the region often want four to six children.

“At this pace it will take 100-plus years to arrive at a point where fertility is controlled,” Dr. Guengant said.

There are also regional differences. The average number of children per woman in the wealthier south of Nigeria has decreased slightly in the last five years, but increased to 7.3 in the predominantly Muslim north, where women often cannot go to a family planning clinic unless accompanied by a man.

The United Nations estimates that the global population will stabilize at 10 billion in 2100, assuming that declining birthrates will eventually yield a global average of 2.1 children per woman. At a rate of even 2.6, Dr. Guengant said, the number becomes 16 billion.

There are signs that the shifting economics and lifestyles of middle-class Africans may help turn the tide, Dr. Ogunjuyigbe said. As Nigeria urbanizes, children’s help is not needed in fields; the extended families have broken down. “Children were seen as a kind of insurance for the future; now they are a liability for life,” he said.

Waiting in a women’s health clinic, Ayoola Adeeyo, 42, said she wanted her four children, ages 6 to 17, to attend university, and did not want more children.

“People used to want 6 or 7 or even 12, but nobody can do that now. It’s the economics,” said Ms. Adeeyo, elegant in a flowing green dress and matching head wrap. “It costs a lot to raise a child.”

Dr. Eloundou-Enyegue worries that Africa’s modestly declining birthrates reflect relatively rich, educated people reducing to invest in raising “quality” children, while poor people continue to have many offspring, strengthening divisions between haves and have-nots. “When you have a system with a large degree of corruption and inequality, it’s hard not to be playing the lottery because it increases the chances that one child will succeed,” he said.

In Nigeria’s desperately poor neighbor, Niger, women have on average more than seven children, and men consider their ideal to be more than 12. But with land divided among so many sons, the size of a typical family plot has fallen by more than a third since 2005, meaning there is little long-term hope for feeding children, said Amadou Sayo, of the aid group CARE.

Babatunde Osotimehin, executive director of the United Nations Population Fund and a former Nigerian health minister, said he is optimistic for a turnaround if governments better support education for girls and contraceptive services. “We can see rapid changes, but that’s up in the air, because you have to be aggressive and consistent.”

Birthrates have edged down to about four children per woman in Kenya, Ethiopia and Ghana.

One recent morning in Lagos, hundreds of patients waited at the Ketu district clinic for treatments like measles vaccines, malaria pills and birth control.

“Of course when the population grows so quickly, that stresses hospitals,” said Dr. Morayo Ismail — although migration from rural areas has also swelled Lagos’s population. A mother of one herself, Dr. Ismail said many poor women still want four or more children.

That evening at the clinic, Bola Agboola, 30, gave birth to her second child. After nurses swaddled the boy, dispensed with the placenta and declared Ms. Agboola well, they whooped, praising God. Then, as Ms. Agboola’s husband entered, some started another chant: “Now start another one. Start another one.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/world/africa/in-nigeria-a-preview-of-an-overcrowded-planet.html?_r=2&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

Gbawe si ma se Iwe.

They shouted "true federalism" non-stop under Yar Adua and touted the concept of "regions developing at their own pace". Today they are silent about those issues because GEJ is a poster child of central control of Nigeria's wealth

Need we say more ?

Ejiné: Okay, this is getting ridiculous now.

You gotta love PDPwood

Lol @ Gospel Pushers Association

Yoruba cosmogony which accommodates polytheism has made it easy for all religious groups to cohabit, interrelate, intermarry and accommodate each other without the tension and conflict prevalent in other parts of the country on account of religion.

Very true. And a Billion Aregbesola, SSS, PDP, ACN or any other group seeking to cause a crisis so they may gain or retain corrupt political power will not change that.

Lagbara awon Irunmole.

Nigeria and all these para-military phrases sha. Security Report?

So when are we going to arrest or prosecute those heads of Ministries,, Departments and Agencies (MDA's) we have "security reports" on ?

I mean those ones that were accused of bribing legislators to inflate budgets?

Na that one interest me pass. I am waiting.

Brixtonyute:

The bolded part is more reason why she needs to stop throwing words around. We as Nigerians need to stop celebrating mediocrity. If an individual is employed and PAID to perform a peculiar task - if that individual fails to deliver - the best thing he/she needs to do is resign - rather than lay blame somewhere else.

I believe Okonjo-Iweala is our de-facto PM, and she can effect some changes within the FG, if she wanted - but she won't do it. They all want to maintain the status-quo - at the expense of Nigerians. She acts like a saint, but she's PART of the problem - all of them are UTTERLY CORRUPT. And like they say - birds of a feather flock together.

Yes, You are very right.

I'm not certain she has the power and influence to effect the kind of changes we need on a fundamental level though. In this Government, she is a hand hired to serve at their pleasure. Sad but true. Resignation is always an option. She took it once, maybe she'll take it again.

manny4life:

Thank man, they expect Dr. NOI to wave a magic wand and solve all the unsolvable...

Just to clarify, the main thrust of my comment was to address the issue of expectation. Both of NOI as a Public Servant and the States as a group. 

You cannot expect states to stop wasting money when you are busy enabling their wastage, actually, "enforcing their wastage" is a better term. The FG is like a rich thief with poor parental skills, The rich thief gave over 60% of his stolen wealth to his spoilt children, knowing they have never worked at earning a living in their life. 

It is stupid for that thief to now accuse his spoilt children of wastage, what was he expecting from them? Thriftiness? Prudency? 

@Brixtontuye, I offered a perspective on NOI's handicap WRT to her role as a Minister of Finance. I believe she can't solve nothing until we make deep and structural political changes. That I sympathized with the position she placed herself in does not mean I agree with her decision to take a job she cannot do. She's an economist trying to solve a problem that requires a much more political solution. Yes, She's out of her depth, but I can sympathize with her still. No?

Ola One and a few others already made the point. The biggest parasite is the Nigerian FG. It is a no brainer really.

You cannot "enslave" your States by controlling almost every avenue of income generation, then accuse them of depending on you. They have to break free first, until then, it's your responsibility to feed them. Same concept apply WRT the relationship between the Government AT ALL LEVELS and the People.

It is what it is, I sympathise with NOI, she did not cause Nigeria's problems, but she can't solve it either, at least not as a hired Finance Minister with no real political power or influence.

Some problems require structural political solutions. Economics can't solve this one by itself. I firmly believe that.

The point is: Our roads are bad and dangerous. We have no stable electricity and it's hard to access credit and start a business in Nigeria.

We can't continue to make laws we are not ready to enforce though.

“The attraction to the Almajiri Islamic school is a direct result of the collapse of public schools and the general vandalization of our educational system by successive governments including the present ones at federal and state levels.

well put

“The Almajiri system represent child abuse and the school system is a breeding ground for religious radicalization and will not simply fade away by pumping money into it.

Yes

President Goodluck Jonathan’s Almajiri project will fade into irrelevance like the Nomadic Education programme of the Ibrahim Babangida era as it amounted to superficial intervention in a decadent and menacing system deeply rooted in peculiar beliefs and customs.

right.

Why can't these kids be placed in regular muslim elementary schools anyway?

Where are their parents? are they above the law?

If they want muslim schools, we have enough examples of great Muslim Schools in Nigeria to copy from. I.e Ansar ul Deen. These kids can be in regular religious schools if the government is ready to enforce universal basic edcuation laws and put their money and judicial power behind it.

There are good examples of such schools in Nigeria, again, Ansar ul deen is one.

Ansar-ul-deen has been doing a great job educating young and bright muslim minds without losing or violating the tenets of the islamic religion since the 1920's - at least in Western Nigeria.


What are these State Governors doing with UBE money for example? ( http://allafrica.com/stories/201108011750.html ) is it not against the Nigerian UBE act of 1999 to have these so called almajiri chiildren roam the streets with no elementary education in the first place?

Again, this is a Problem with a ready-made and tested homegrown solution, why are we stumbling?

SMH

Ndu_chucks I read a bit more of Ismaila Iro's paper. There is a lot to do. I don't see how these money sharing leaders can solve problems like that without a vision that extends beyond their pockets.

I'm still reading but it's just a shame bro, serious shame. So much work to do and we have not even started!

The blame can go across, from national leaders to local ones. We just keep failing our people. People need to change but leaders really need to lead.

ndu_chucks: @Kilode?! you may find these readings interesting


(1)From Nomadism to Sedentarism: Socioeconomic Tranformation of the Pastoral Fulani of Nigeria
(2)Should Pastoral Fulani Sedentarize?
(3)Characteristics of the Fulani
(4)Fulani Herding System
(5)Traditionalism Vs Modernism
(6)Nomadic Education and Education for Nomadic Fulani

Ndu_chuks thanks for sharing, I read a bit of that earlier. I'll read the rest in the morning.

in nigeria,theres actually a difference between herdsmen fulani and the slightly civilised ones

Torkaka, what is the difference? is it based on bloodline or occupation or is it religion?

I'm curious. I'll like to gain some insight.

torkaka:
and who told you fulani have a small population in nigeria? sokoto,zamfara,katsina are solely fulani states. substantial numbers are found in bauchi,gombe,adamawa and even ilorin.
of the nine heads of states from the north only three ; buhari,shagari,yar'adua were fulani. and of the three only one was an elite; yar'adua.

Nigerian Official population figure is very difficult to trust, it's been controversial since the 30's or 40's . I made my inferences from their reported population across West Africa which some demographers put at between 12-30 Million. For Nigeria, I've read figures of around 29M for both Fulani and Hausa combined ( i.e CIA data) it's hard to tell if that is true. But even if it is, the Fulani as a stand alone group should be counted as a minority in relation to say Igbos or Yorubas.

I'll appreciate if you can provide a good reference for their numbers. I need it myself.

As per my elite reference, I was referring to the political and economic elite ruling Nigeria, including Fulanis, I'm not sure I can recognize one Fula royal elite from another, Fulani is Fulani as far as I know.

I won't say Fulani Elites are running Nigeria though, that is too simplistic. Elites across the country run Nigeria.

But it's amazing to see how much influence they control in Nigeria, especially Northern Nigeria, given their population and the state of their people in neighbouring countries.

That we have Hausa-Fulani recognized by many as a combined group in Nigeria is interesting also.

Jarus: I think we are making the same mistakes our(southern) leaders of old made. I can see how Fulanis are being underrated here, probably because of the nomadic fulanis we see around. On a good day, an educated Fulani man can compete with any educated southerner and in addition more fearless and bolder than an equally educated counterparts from the South. Needless to compare them with Hausa, as they are way ahead of Hausas in education and intelligence. That is the simple secret of their stronghold. It is also misleading to say they are minority. An account has it that they are even more than Hausas, but not sure of that.

I don't think people are underating them on this thread.

At the risk of putting words in the OP's mouth, I think the point of the thread is to try and tear down the assumption in some quarters that Fulanis are dumb, unaware or simple uneducated cattle rearers with little awareness

Right Negro_ntns?

The Fulani model vis a vis their status in Nigerian socio-political life is a case-study on how to strategically position yourself, preserve your people, win friends and demolish enemies. They've done an amazing job so far. I applaud them. The wise will learn from their model.

“For instance, when I was governor of Ekiti, I rejected gratis from contractors and the contractors are still alive. Instead, I told them to use the money for charity and they decided to buy vehicles for Schools for the Handicaps in the State. They bought the vehicles, donated them as ‘Friends of Segun Oni’ and as at today, the buses are still being used by the schools.

This is also wrong. It is corruption in itself for you to benefit from people you gave contracts to by allowing them to place giant pictures of you or your name on donations. This can be a benefit for you politically and maybe financially.

And he's proud to use that as an example of good practice ? Who are these fools ?

Both parties are filled with looters and robbers of the Nigerian people. We the people are the victims here not these idioooots shedding crocodile tears and fighting like they have any iota of principle.

SMH.