₦airaland Forum

@Post
All humans believe in God, the few amongst us who don't actually descended from monkeys so technically speaking they are not actually humans.

@Recognise
Are you trying to send me to theology school or what? If i start going trough all those links you posted, i don't think i would be through by the time the year is over. But honestly, i believe most of our clergy should go back and study the scriptures in it's proper translation and context, the sincere ones amongst them would never be the same again. Of course the false prophets amongst them would keep quiet as they won't want to rock the boat or loose their source of filthy lucre.

Pastor AIO:


7 men. kai Kunleoshob. Muslim heaven is not for yanshes.

I never said anything about muslim heaven as i am not aware any such place exists.

jaffi:
[b]kunle,
talk to me here.
jaffifredrick@gmail.com
i'll appreciate it,if u will.[/b

What would you like to talk to me about ? But i must warn you i remain very resolute and convinced beyond reasonable doubt as per my position on tithes and the evil it represents in today's churches. Besides i see it as my christian duty to spread the truth in that regard and i cannot be persuaded to desist from such an honourable course as some nairalanders have tried to persuade me off line to desist from telling people the truth.

@Pastor AIO & Recognise

You guys would be shocked how many false/ faulty doctrines exist in christianity today as a result of mis-translation. It is almost as if 90% of what the church holds on to were mis-translated. All you need to do is get a good bible concordance like STRONG'Sconcordance and you would begin to understand the scriptures in a whole new light. This is also partly the reason why i seem to be against most churches, their doctrines are based on ignorance fueled by mis-translations.

At least we know where they place their faith.

uplawal:
@kunleosho, pls save your preaching cos ure ignorantly putting charcoal of hellfire on your head if u dnt know,enough of your evil doctrine sermon

You that you are living in darkness is still talking, at least the christians have hope as they have seen the light and they just need to study the scriptures better so they don't get mis-lead. Your own case is really pathetic, the only compesation is that you might have seven virgin men waiting for you in hell to do their stuff.

@Krayola2
I look forward to a very enlightening discussion on the topic

Genuine knowledge seekers ought to read this article.

1 John 4:1:
1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.

1 John 4:5:
5 Those false teachers belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them. [they tell the congregation what they want to hear like prosperity and miracles and they listen to them]

Jude 1:4:
4 I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:11-13:
11 What sorrow awaits them! For they follow in the footsteps of Cain, who killed his brother. Like Balaam, they deceive people for money. And like Korah, they perish in their rebellion.
12 When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord’s love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you. They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots. 13 They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds. They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.



Jude 1:16:
16 These people are grumblers and complainers, living only to satisfy their desires. They brag loudly about themselves, and they flatter others to get what they want.

2 Thessalonians 3:6-8:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers[a] who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received[b] from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us[I hope our pastors in the house are still reading]. We were not idle when we were with you. 8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it . We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you .

Now that is really refreshing I wonder which version of the bible our pastors read that they fail to see all this beautiful exemplary writings in the bible. I guess it is a case of picking, choosing and twisting which one serves their belly the most.

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21:
20 Do not despise inspired messages. 21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

Wow this is a nice one we can learn from. Here Paul is admonishing us to put to test all we are taught as christians and hold on to that which is true. We are all witnesses to how lots of people around us tithe of their meagre income[which is better used to take care of their families] and yet they continue to lack year in year out despite the promises of plenty their pastors preach if they tithe. Although a lot of them continue to delude them selves that the tithing is working just becos they are slightly better off than some one else they know. The truth is that we should put to test and verify all we are taught, we are not underany obligation as christians to believe or follow whatever pastor says if it does not conform with undiluted truths established in the scriptures.

PS: Mordern day tithing is a dilution of biblical tithing.[or better stated twisted version of biblical tithing.]

Colossians 2:8:

8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense[reminds me of Pastor Oyaks] that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Colossians 2:16-23:

16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink[some pastors condenm brethen who consume alcoholic beverages], or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths[mmmmh means sunday worship is not even compulsary]. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. 18 Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud, 19 and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.

20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, 21 “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? 22 Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

Philippians 3:17-19:
17 Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example. 18 For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite[money from tithes and other twisted doctrines], they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth.

Paul lived an exemplary selfless life that true christian leaders ought to emulate, he was not into material things[talkless of prosperity gospel] and he also worked to support himself, he did not constitute himself into a burden for his church and church collections made by him were mostly used to take care of the poor and the needy. These selfless example Paul gave to the church to follow as been totally abandoned by our so called christian leaders today who are more interested in their bellies.

I see you guys have turned this thread to a war zone, that ys not the intention of this thread as it is designed to help christians to be able to discern the truthas we have all sorts of doctrines contantly being introduced to chritianity today, i would also like suggest to the muslims to do the same for their "faith" as their religion is now synonymous with terrorism which is evil, some claim that the terrorists are not true muslims but then again it as been proven time and again that they draw their inspiration from the quoran and the teachings/examples of mohammed. You guys should go and remove the log in your eyes instead of bothering about the speck in another man's eye.

Ogaga4Luv:
^{Magic is real}

If it is real why don't you show your demon possessed face in front of screen

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4482268#msg4482268 date=1252079094]And to add erasers to your errors, i will write that

Ttalks,

1. Who seperated /categorised the scriptures as OT and NT

2. Was the Pentatiouch lived in the Law or before the Law

3. Who institutionalised Titheing to the Israelites

4. Was Abraham an Israelites

Pls help answer this questions they will do you alot of good

Ttalks brong evidences from the scriptures and not link to another's article which could be false or wrongly informative [/quote][quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4482224#msg4482224 date=1252078722]Ttalks,

I have just a question for you

Did Abraham or Jacob who tithed did so during the Law or before the law?

Your answer to this is what will make me skip/refer to your comments as relevant/ irrelevants henceforth

and mind you i wasnt thinking highly of myself, because i would have said i won. Dont act too smart my brother!

God bless you![/quote]I would have loved to answer this mis-leading questions but i trust ttalks would do justice to them as i know he has been very well schooled in the scriptures and can not be tossed around like paper weight christians that abound these days.

Krayola2:
I agree that it was adulterated almost immediately.

Do u think these founding fathers wrote the books in the Bible? The Gospels and acts especially?

My brother there were over thirthy gospels written covering the life time of our lord jesus christ from the perspective of various people at that time. The ones that made it into the bible were the ones chosen by the catholic church for reasons best known to them. Even though the gospels that ended up in the bible were written up to 50 years after is death many of the source documents for these gospels were probably other gospels that were written much earlier by eye witness accounts. As per the reason these other books didn't make it into the bible, you would have to ask the RCC. I have it on good authority that they still have a lot of scriptures locked up in the vatican vaults which is not available to the public and is not allowed to be translated to other languages. Have you ever wondered why catholic priests are made to larn greek and latin?? [hint: original language testament was written in]

I don't think there is any controversy about the book of acts, after all it must have been written by one of the apostles or their disciples. A lot of writtings in acts are actually physical historical records of how the early church started

Interesting thread and very refreshing coming from a pentecostal pastor. However i would like to hear his views on tithes cos if he indulges in the evil heretic doctrine, then he is equally as guilty as the demons collecting first fruit.

Rebarobyn:
boo·ty [btee]
noun
seized or stolen valuables: money or valuables seized or stolen, especially by soldiers in war

Microsoft® Encarta® 2007.

Are you suggesting that tithes can be paid from stolen items too Is the very doctrine of tithes not criminal enough.

Krayola2:
Who, in your opinion, were the founding fathers of the faith, and at what point did it start to go wrong?

The founding fathers of the faith are the apostles who established the religion based on the teachings and mentoring of our lord Jesus christ. The faith started being adulterated almost immediately, for evidence of this please check my thread on false prophets and you would see all the bible references to warnings against false teachers even as far back as the old testament which continued in the time of the apostles. but if you truely seek the truth you would be able to discern it as God as placed the truth in our spirit we only need to look inwards and you would see it staring back at you.

Abuzola:
And where is the christianity in the bible ? Constantine named christianity and thats why christianity is not the religion of the bible. Cheers ! Up islam

I am fed up of this utter rubbish you keep repeating here, the adjoining passage makes it cystal clear that christians were called christians as far back as the biblical times hundreds of years b4 constantine.
Acts 11:26:

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

@ttalks
It would be very difficult for this people to accept the truth, some of them are benefitting from the filthy lucre whilst the rest of them are so thoroughly brainwashe by their pastors that they would not believe even when shown crystal clear evidence that their pastor is twisting the word of God rather they would twist it further[since they have been trained in the art of scriptural manipulation] to try and confuse other less learned brethen into believing the heresies further.

There is absolutely no christian teaching that condenms the taking of alcohol, we were only warned to take it in moderation. Jesus christ himself used to consume alcohol socially, if you are in doubt read luke 7:33-34.

Well it depends on how you define religion. Even though it could be called a religion christianity is no longer being practised the way it was established by the founding fathers of the faith. This is how the bible defines the christian religion: James 1:27:

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

It is a shame that tithes, other heretic practises and marmon worshipping have been smuggled into the religion to now make it totally different from the religion established by the apsotles.

I am soooo happy for chelsea, at least they would have a good excuse when they fail to win even a tea spoon in the next five seasons.

alimat 2:
@poster
I want u to read the topic again,But i tot the bible is the word of god so why is there a word of man in it again?Or is it Paul that wrote and say in NT while god totally say in OT?
Believing in a Prophet having things to do with little girls, Why dont u leave that alone and face reality?
Even if u claim the prophet is fake i will advice to compare/constract between the book given to him and that of your paul book called NT and see the differences
NB:- He never wrote the book and never claimed that he was inspired about the written of the book.
WHEN DID LETTERS BECOME PART OF SCRIPTURE FORM gOD

Paul writtings were inspired b the holy spirit and NOT written by God. That aside the other apostles confirmed he was a true apsotles and paul was part of the first church council[Acts 15] which included peter and the other apostles. Peter further went to verify that paul's writtings were inspired[2 peter3:15}. The final proof lies in the contents of his writings as they conform 100% with the teachings of Christ himself. What you muslims fail to realize is that a new covenant was established by the death of christ. But honestly given mohammed's antecedents how come you believe he is truely from God?

@tonye-t
Kindly explain to us why tithing was anulled in verse 12 of that very same hebrew passage you are trying to twist and was further describe as weak and unprofitable in verse 18. Why would you as a christian encourage others to do what the bible as anulled and described as weak and unprofitable?

Hebrews 7:5-19:

5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12[b]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/b]

13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18[b]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/b]

19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

jaffi:
what a discussion!
The bible is very clear in this matter and any other matters.kunle let me start by sayin,Tithe is not a law issue.Tithing didn't come from the law.The law was after Abraham the father of faith(our father of faith-check Galatians 3).Abraham tithed (check Hebrew 7vs 1-2).the law was given to Moses and Abraham was before Moses.
you see,Melchizedek received Abraham's tithe.Melchizedek represent Christ if you follow Paul's explanation in the book of Hebrews 7.We as Christians give our tithe to Jesus Christ our high priest not pastors.They might receive it from us but spiritually we are giving to God and there are blessings attached to doing this.

Your using the vey same hebrew passage were tithing was anulled and condenmed does not help your case, maybe you haven't been reading your bible well but i would post that passage here and highlight the salient points.

Hebrews 7:5-19:

  5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

  6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

  7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

  8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

  9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

  10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

  11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

  12[b]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/b]

  13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

  14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

  15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

  16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

  17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

  18[b]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. [/b]

  19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

jaffi:
Kunle,
you see this discussion i is not necessary.who doen't know anything about Christ our lord not to talk about Apostle Paul.
Hear what he is saying.
We have work to do,brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My brother the discussion is very necessary for the reason apostle paul says in the verse below:
Titus 1:11:
11 They must be silenced,[exposed] because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.


As i good christian i cannot just sit down and look at some supposed christian leaders destroy the faith becuase of their love for filthy lucre. Jesus and the apostles constantly fought against false teachings, so why should we stop today?

Olaadegbu, why don't you address the issues raised on your justification for twisting scriptures which is now a very popular practise amongst you pentecostal peeps today. You guys forget that some of us actually take time to study the scriptures and don't just accept what any man says becos he claims to be a "man of god".

@Uplawal
What are you ranting about? If you can believe a man who claims to be a prophet from God that has no qualms about having inapproriate sexual relationships with little girls, i don't see an reason why you should have bproblems with saint Paul. There is nothing contradictory in paul's teachings and the gospel of christ. I would be willing to explain to you further if you genuinely wish to know the truth.