₦airaland Forum

I read some where on this forum that regular and compulsary tithe paying is the pre-requisite for being given a pass even though the pastor never preaches about tithes. This sounds really dodgy and hypocritical to me.

davidylan:
Partial list of millionaire false prophets fleecing the flock . . .

- Joyce Meyer
- Joel Osteen
- Mike Murdoch
- Pat Robertson
- Paul Crouch
- Oral Roberts
- Richard Roberts
- Benny Hinn
- Paula White
- T.D. Jakes
- Juanita Bynum
- Bishop Weeks
- Creflo Dollar
- Robert Tilton
- Kenneth Copeland
- Eddie Long
- Marylin Hickey
- Jesse Duplantis

You forgot to include the list of their Nigerian counterparts, business partners and associates.

Orisanla:
I was once a Christian and realized that the TRUTH was FAR more stretched by its practitioners than ITS Creator.

The above statement is the reason why some of us have come out boldly against pastors and preachers today, it is very evident that the gospel has been heavily distorted over the centuriies and our preachers today continue to distort it and in this way they are actually driving more people away from God becos they are turning his "word" into a lie.

The evidence is all around you including you yourself

donnie:
Pastor Pastor; as long as you bear that user name, u shouldnt be allowed to just say or do whatever u like.

But your pastor[oyaks] uses pastor as title and he says a lot of rubbish he likes and the likes of you not only condone it but you ignoranty idolize him for the rubbish he spews out.

Abuzola:
Islam forbid suicide so we do not know what you are blabbing about, they are martyr and not suicide, suicide is the act of killing oneself while the jihadist do not kill themself alone but a kind of tactical war to inflict death against the infidel

I have always suspected that you have problems, probably you were abused as a child hence your psycological problems and complex espescially when it comes to christianity. But now you have finally confirmed that you are indeed a completely deranged homicidal maniac who is not fit associate with other human beings.

tiptess:
modupe01 are u a lawyer. remember the pastor must be saying the truth and must be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt

How many pastors say the truth this days

@Post
Are you sure you didn't make up this story?? It sounds sooo ridiculous

Police said that Michael Jackson's Death could be suspicious.

They are currently looking for a Smooth Criminal.He could be Black or White, but he's definitely Bad & Dangerous. They got fingerprints Off the Wall, and they said there was a Man in the Mirror. They are willing to talk to Billy Jean or Dirty Diana, but they don't wanna be starting Something. They said they don't Stop till they get Enough. And they found Blood on the Dance Floor. It's going to be a tough case, but they will Beat It, they reckon, this is it !!!! it's a real Thriller.


Police! You are not alone!!

banom:
Each time i log on to nairaland, i see christians and moslems in bitter verbal fight, in defence to their religions, i was just wondering if that is what Jesus Christ and Mohamed does .

Do they insult and fight each other ?

No they don't on the contrary mohammed worships and adores Jesus whom he considered to the the greatest of God's prophets unlike nairaland musilims who don't even understand the basis of their religion.

no21:
Pastor Adeboye should share some lights on the JET.

It was bought with people's Money.

+ his "credibilty" is also at stake.

insongrata:
@tudor & cohorts: This is to inform most of you antichrists that I have the clinical therapy for people suffering from PoLyneuropsychopathogenecosistic misyarnititis.

This disease is symptomised by severe uncontrolled disparages at men of God, while most people suffering from this condition rarely understand their status.

It can also be likened to Mad men trying to claim their sanity rights deeply indulged in lunaticism.

Never you guys mind at all, cause I have enough dose of retropsychomisyarnosis

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=292596.msg4157240#msg4157240 date=1247118377]Is this supposed to be funny? ?? [/quote]He is obviously surrefing from PoLyneuropsychopathogenecosistic misyarnititis as well.

@Lastpage
Nice confession! remain true to yourself. You can't deceive God even if you join the bandwagon of those deceiving themselves

Is it only rick warren?? heretics and criminals like him abound in Nigeria all claiming to be annointed men of God.

@post
Oyedepo is definitely not a living legend, on the contrary the man is a shame and an embarrasment to true christianity and his "blessings" are not from God but from a manipulated and deluded group of idolaters worshippers

lawwyblack:
it was never recorded that Jesus himself paid tithes and for sure he came to destroy the notion of "religion" thats why he was often confronted by pharisees and saducees. he lived a life which he intends we live too, a man of character who loved selflessly. Shi ke nah!

But men love religion[especially the filthy lucre that obtains from it] and they are even willing to go against God himself if they are stopped from practising "religion" after all God's son was killed becos the went against the religin of the pharisees. Unfortunately those who claim to accept the son of God today have gone back to the religion of those who killed him and they just use his name as a front.

sparta:
@ Reverend Aio

The fact that it this is a public forum does not mean people should just write anything they like. Slandering other people is never a way to go. There are better ways of presenting issues, even the Bible says "unpleasant words stirreth up strife"

If i have an issue about a minister of God, i think courtesy demands i go about it objectively and not with a biased mind.

I beleive we have a lot of Reedemites on nairaland and am sure they will be glad to answer any objective and not tongue lashing questions about their general overseer. Every human being deserves to be treated with respect. Pastor Adeboye is a human being like you and I and whether or not he is a Pastor is not just the issue .

If an issue is adressed with an attack mode then it means one is acting as though he is perfect. He who has not sinned, let him cast the first stone.,

The issue is when it comes to religion, religious adherents are rarely objective. That is apart from the fact that they deify their religious leaders which is contrary to what the religiuon preaches

debosky:
Do you think before you compare a text message bearing a Pastor's name directed to his flock to self-contradicting rumours in newspapers ?

For the record, even the 'response' by Adeboye was to his church members, not to the 'public'. His constituency remains the church - anyone who is a member and is concerned about him allegedly buying a jet can approach him through the proper channels.

Including third term in this discussion shows how much grasping at straws you are engaging in.

Debosky you must admit you have been a been unreasonanle in your over zealous defence of Pastor Adeboye on this issue, reminds me of worshippers in Rev King's church who were still adulating him even after he murdered one of them in broad day light. To you / them your man of god can do no wrong so you would always whip up excuses to justify whatever they do no matter how absurd or wrong. Honestly if you were not an ardent arsenal supporter i would have concluded that you were already completely lost.

OLAADEGBU:
@wirinet,

It is amazing the way you guys think and process information. We definitely have different opposing perspectives and worldviews due to the different spectacles that we use to observe the evidence around us.

You don't know what the term born again means and at the same time you are so sure to debunk the explanation given. How logical, reasonable or rational is that? I will suggest that you read what we have been enjoying in the NL Christian e-fellowship maybe you will be able to come to the illumination of the word of God, and that is if you have an open mind.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-159075.0.html

How won't he be able to debunk the shallow and baseless explaination you gave. Evidently your explaination is from twisted logic and using unrelated scriptures to force your penterascal meaning into the term.

OLAADEGBU:
Why don't you ask your new found 'pastor' the meaning of the term born again and if he has any light in him he will be able to bring you to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ unless it is the case of the blind leading the blind.

Olaadgbu i make bold to say that you have absolutely no idea what the true knowledge of our lord Jesus christ is. you are just a religious hypocrite and there are millions of you in the world today who assume they are "born again" based on twisted doctrine they have been taught by eqaully twisted preachers. Go and read James 1:27 to have a little idea as to how you should be practising your christian religion and compare it to the hypocrisy which you currently manifest.

Chrisbenogor:
Em Kunle there is a reason I did not quote you, so your conclusion na wa.
I did not say in the bible I believe I mentioned the Jesus seminar

Well you gave an impression you weren't sure were you read it and since i had posted the same issue earlier on this forum i assumed you read it fom my post hence my attempt to correct the errornous impression

Chrisbenogor:
I think I read somewhere about Jesus being a glutton and a drunkard, was it the Jesus seminar or so, cannot really remember.

You are quoting what you read out of context, if i remember well i posted the topic in that verse Jesus said Hypocrites like the pharisees[and the preachers we have today] accused him of being a glutton and drunkard just because he used to eat and drink with tax collectors who the pharisees considered as sinners. The verse did not say jesus was a drunkard or a glutton as you stated above. For verification you can confirm in Luke 7:33-34

wirinet:
My good friend Mr Olaadegun, the original copy and past master. I have seen this same response in another thread. Ok lets go through your definition of "Born Again" one by one.
This verse had already been treated in the opening post and you have not made any comment on my observations.


I do not see what psalm 51:10 has to do with the term born again. Are you saying David was a born again or was becoming born again after saying that prayer.

The problem with pastors and preacher is that they take a sentence right out of context, then look for a corresponding out of context support from any other part of the bible and the affirm what ever assertion they have.

For me to understand what the sentences above really means one should look at the sentence before the quoted verses and those after to understand the message the write was trying to pass through.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Obviously the writer talking about how malice and envy, hateful, and hating of each other and how the kindness and love of God can be made to appear, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy, and by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. But also admonishes those that believed in God to be careful to maintain good works.

So the theme of this verse is not about born again.
Also in 1 Peter 1: 22-24
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

The writer was talking about unfeigned love of fellow brethren, so they should love one another with a pure heart fervently. the same statement then continues that they are born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So being born again in the context it was used here has to do with love and not any other thing.
I think in those days there was a lot of hatred and disunity in the church and the writer admonishes members to be born again - change their heart and love one another.


1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The part quoted by Olaadegun is part of the introductory paragraph (greetings) of a letter to strangers(church members maybe) scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. And it says they are begotten by unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So it did not say that they should perform anything to become born again.The above verse has not relationship with the term born again
Also here it did not say born again, Pentecostals just interpret being in Christ to mean being born again.

So Mr Olaadegun had not defined "Born Again" nor the process of being "Born Again"

@Wirinet
I love the way you disectted pastor olaadegbu's submission, i am really glad that people are beginning to read the bible with understanding instead of swallowing all the hubris that spews out out of these delusional pentecostal churches.

By Richard Allen Greene
CNN
LONDON, England (CNN) -- The world's oldest known Christian Bible goes online Monday -- but the 1,600-year-old text doesn't match the one you'll find in churches today.


The British government bought most of the pages of the ancient manuscript in 1933.


Discovered in a monastery in the Sinai desert in Egypt more than 160 years ago, the handwritten Codex Sinaiticus includes two books that are not part of the official New Testament and at least seven books that are not in the Old Testament.
The New Testament books are in a different order, and include numerous handwritten corrections -- some made as much as 800 years after the texts were written, according to scholars who worked on the project of putting the Bible online. The changes range from the alteration of a single letter to the insertion of whole sentences.

And some familiar -- very important -- passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said.

Juan Garces, the British Library project curator, said it should be no surprise that the ancient text is not quite the same as the modern one, since the Bible has developed and changed over the years.

"The Bible as an inspirational text has a history," he told CNN.

"There are certainly theological questions linked to this," he said. "Everybody should be encouraged to investigate for themselves."

That is part of the reason for putting the Bible online, said Garces, who is both a Biblical scholar and a computer scientist.

"Scholars will want to look very closely at it, and some of the Web site functionality is specifically for them -- the ability to search the text, the ability to highlight a word, the degree of detail is particularly interesting for scholars interested in the text," he said.

Don't Miss
Codex Sinaiticus project
But, he added, "It's for everyone, really a wide audience, because of curiosity, because they appreciate the value of it."

By the middle of the fourth century, when the Codex Sinaiticus was written, there was wide but not complete agreement on which books should be considered authoritative for Christian communities, according to the Web site where the Codex is posted.

The Bible comes from the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai desert, where a scholar named Constantine Tischendorf recognized its significance in 1844 -- and promptly took part of it, Garces explained.

"Constantine Tischendorf was in search for ancient manuscripts, so he appreciated the age and value of it," Garces said.

He took a handful of pages to Germany to publish them, then returned in 1853 and in 1859 for more. On that last trip, he took 694 pages, which ended up in St. Petersburg, Russia.

The Soviet government decided to sell them in 1933 -- to raise money to buy tractors and other agricultural equipment.

The British government bought the pages for £100,000, raising half the money from the public. Garces called that event one of the first fundraising campaigns in British history.

Film footage from the time shows crowds of people turning out to see the manuscript, which was considered a national treasure, he said.

Though the Bible has been reassembled online, in the real world it remains scattered.

Most of it is in London. Eighty-six pages are held at the University Library in Leipzig, Germany, parts of 12 pages are held at the National Library of Russia in St. Petersburg, and 24 pages and 40 fragments remain at St. Catherine's Monastery, recovered by the monks from the northern wall of the structure in June 1975.

The manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament. (A copy held at the Vatican dates from about the same period.) Older copies of individual portions of the Christian Bible exist, but not as part of a complete text.

The Codex also includes much of the Old Testament that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians.

That portion includes books not found in the Hebrew Bible and regarded in the Protestant tradition as apocryphal, such as 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach.

The New Testament portion includes the Epistle of Barnabas and The Shepherd of Hermas.

As it survives today, Codex Sinaiticus comprises just over 400 large leaves of parchment -- prepared animal skin -- each of which measures 15 inches by 13.6 inches (380 mm by 345 mm).

@Horse703/the winner/ any other alias you might use
CEC limited preaches prosperity gospel, that is enough evidence that his teachings are inspired from the pits of heel and he is not preaching the true gospel as the gospel of christ as absolutely nothing to do with material prosperity if preached in the proper context

EVidently the pentecostal interpretation of the term "born again" is heavily flawed anyway i would reserve my comments until they spill out what they have been indoctrinated to believe despite the fact that you would pick several holes in their interpretation of it when the bible is scrutinized.

ogajim:
I am lost here!
What has a Muslim got to do with a Christian forum? Is confusion and diffusion the main objective here?

Most certainly it is.

@Olabowale
please show me the verses and make sure it is from the new testament were christianity begins

REAL TRUTH:
For all NL and Nigerians:
Now know this,,Joel Olstein is a popular pastor in the US and the world,,,he recently made a mistake in his speech/uterances,,,do you know what happened next? His members demanded he should go to the public and refrain the statement he made,,and he did just that,,thats the humility am talking about.
More than the above, just last year,,Revd Wright who happens to be Obama's pastor for 20 years,,,made a statement that boils down to racisms which ultimately would have affected Obama's bid for presidency,,the Revd Wright for that singular mistake was fired(sacked) from the church and Obama eventually resigned from attending that church,,,Simply because his pastor made a blunder! Though the Revd tried apologising but it was to late.
Now my question is this,,can both scenerio ever happened in Nigeria?the answer is NO !! Reason being that Nigerians have been so badly boxed into RELIGION,,,,U MUST NOT QUESTION UR PASTOR,BISHOP,GO etc,,,to me that is arrant nonesense and unscriptural
Again,,I ask the question,,,why have we not heard Pastor Adeboye making statement concerning the Jet? One thing am trying 2 prove is that as human beings,,we re all prone to mistakes,,,and what we should do is to apologise appropriate when we make such mistakes,,,ur Pastor,Bishop,GO,,etc are all fallible and prone to mistakes,,,That is why the WHITES would always be ahead of the BLACKS in almost everything,,,In US,,U would see politicians,pastors apologising publicly when they make any mistakes,,,and they re eventually forgiven,,,

That is in the US, in Nigeria our men of god are demi gods and they can do no wrong, they are infallible and superior to preachers in any other country on this planet hence they can't be corrected by mere men.

jagunlabi:
Talk about the art of squeezing water out of stones.These pastors have perfected such art.They truly deserve to get paid.No be easy skill,bro!

There is no skill involved itis just plain old psycology/ manipulation using the fear and love for God by people to extort money from them. And the real problem is that my African brethen are just to lazy to read and understand the bible for themselves they would rather a pastor interpretes it to them forgetting that the pastor is a biased person as far as scriptures is concerned.

olabowale:
@KunleOshob:If I show you verses from Quran and ahadith talking about love and forgiveness of fellow men, will you quit Christianity and upgrade yourself to Islam? I will only do that when you accept my challenge. The free ride is not to destruction, but to pure salvation without fakery o death and blood!


I hear you, except that Jesus in his "parable" of the king, on the king's return said that those who advocated for his never to return to rule them should be brought before him and be slained! Let me ask you, is this parable not about Jesus, or some mythical king who is actng like a big gangster, and terrorist in that verse? I know you will deny it for Jesus. So therefore I will go to the revelation about his return.

Jesus is slated to return and kill those of his own; the people of the house of israel, who will not accept his rulership! The Jews are aware of this. So are the Evangelistic Christians. Please Kunle, help me out of my shallowness by explaining the dual and directly opposing verses here! One a Parable, the other a prediction. Both pointing to blood bath, but one is clearly Jesus at his return to do a number on the Jews!

And when Moses made God kill Pharaoh and his army by drowning them in the sea, just by Moses using his staff, or all the killings that Moses did all the way to the edge of the "promised land (i do not believe it is a promise that will include evil doers, even as they persist in doing evil)", the massacres of people of Cannine, the Amorites, the Hittatits, the jebusites, and the destruction of the city of Jericho are not fights for God? What about the destruction and slaying of Goliat by young david, not a fight in defense of God?

If none of these fights had oocurred, wuld Jesus who preached "peace for the first time (I winked)", even though he asked his people to sell their cloths and purchase with it Swords (what would a peaceful man and his cohorts need swords for over 2000 years ago, would not it be the same thing a man needs shoulder launcher for today, from outside the fringe of acceptable authority?) be born n Jerusalem or whereever he was born?

Finally I remember the many Crusades mounted by the christian Europeans to Middle East, to route out the Muslims and in the process killed Jews! What about the Conqistadors/Spanish Inquisitions? Muslims and Jews were killed, and the killers were Christians. What about the colonizations of darker skin people by the Christian lighter skin people? These ligher skin colonizers, all over the world were Christians, with the Jews and some muslims acting as supporters making monies along the way? What about the world wars, primarily fought as leaders by the Christians? I guess you are not using the Bible at that time?

Okay south africa's afrikaan's apartheid tyranny over the blacks; they used the Bible without any question. What about the USA that I know well? Slavery and even now KKK still use the Bible to make claims about their white Supremacy's mumbo jumbo. Just the other day whites were arrested for plotting to kill the President. He is a white supremacy guy. The other day an abortion clinic Doctor was gunned down by a Bible thumping man.

Now who is very shallow, Kunle? Is the shallower person not you? Please defend your honor and excuse my ignorance! I want you to address each of these points, otherwise the label will stick!

The fact that "christians" in history have done evil in the past does not mean they draw the inspiration to do it from the bible unlike the quoran that gives clear instuctions to perpetuate evil against other men. That apart i am sure you realize that christianity is a new testament religion and NOt old testament and those who base doctrine on old testament are either ignorant or they are just being mischievious. Old testament is the jewish religion. That apart we also know for a fact that muhammed plagiarized heavily from the bible/torah when he was compiling his quoran hence some of the similarities you come across in both books.

Finally Jesus is not slated to return to kill any body i am certain you are forcing your own perverted opinion into the scriptures, all your other responses are just baseless rants which i would not condescend to addressing cause you are obviously just looking for loopholes that don't exist and creating them yourself

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=279224.msg4141421#msg4141421 date=1246871798]Adam prefigures Jesus
The tree in the Garden of Eden prefigures the Cross
The Word of God on a tablet prefigures the Word of God in person
the 12 tribes of Israel prefigures the 12 disciples
Aaron prefirgures Jesus as Priest (the levitical High Priest and the true High Priest)
David prefigures Jesus as King (both were annointed)
circumcision prefigures baptism
noah's ark prefigures baptism

there's so much more really[/quote]Typical example of working to a preconceived answer aka wuruwuru to the answer