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 Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 11:28pm On Oct 16, 2008 |
I keep saying it if heaven and hell turn out to be true, my ass would not be toasted alone I am going down there with 29999 sects of christianity that were wrong. LolOk this sounds funny, but I know better so I won't laugh. You know very well that heaven and hell is real. Even if one leaves the Catholic faith they do not abandon God, there's too much evidence about God. The Church knows so much about him because he has revealed everything to us, the only thing we do not know is the second coming of Christ. No one knows that except the Father, and anyone who claims to know is dead wrong, and anyone who is trying to figure it out will never get it. There's too much evidence of the existence of God in the Church for you to not believe. You never even told me why you lost faith. SO why did you? If you don't want to discuss it here, you can e-mail me. But you know I'll always keep you in my prayers  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 11:06pm On Oct 16, 2008 |
@~Lady~1) I know I answered your questions, it may not be what you wanted, but you received an answer nonetheless. 2) You may be new to this board, but the questions that were posted by David and co have been asked over a million times, and they have been answered. That's the problem that we have. There are people here who don't want answers, all they want to do is start strife. It's not the first time seeing those questions from the same people, the problem is you came in without knowing the history of this topic of Catholicism. All those questions have been answered, those people just recycle them a million times over. Maybe I ignored a few because they have already been answered before, time and time again. Frankly, how does answering all of your questions clear the facts we pointed out about the RCC?The problem is that non-catholics misinterpret things, so bringing it from a different view point might, help hence the questions. Also a lot of people here already know the truth to the RCC and they've been refuted many times, but pride refuses to let them say the truth. All they do is run and hide. Hence why there haven't been answers to the questions. It's not the first time asking questions, the problem is everyone abandons ship and goes to start trouble elsewhere. They won't answer the questions, because they know they're deceitful. Also the facts that you pointed about RCC are very wrong, they're your misconceptions and nothing else. If you knew the truth or understood the teaching, you won't have those misconceptions. Sometimes my response comes in the form of a question, not to dodge your question, but I've noticed in dealing with situations like this, it is best if you give the answer. A lot of people end up answering their own questions and see that they've had the wrong idea about RCC all along. I repeated the isues you avoided in my last post and your inevitable reply is still "The one Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to". is that the only area you dispute: pope's legitimacy?. In fact, you were the one who brought up this "keys, keys, keys" thing at all. And it's taken you over. You sound like a broken record.First of all I thought your only issue was about the Pope and so I stuck to that, and talked about it. If you asked a question, I answered it, unless you skipped through parts of the post. Please go read your post from yesterday then repeat that you never singled me out to answer your pointless questions.Please go through all my posts and see if you were the only one I asked to answer the questions. If you were not the only one, I didn't single you out. Even the original post of questions did not include your name and when I reposted it, it wasn't in reply to you. Also, you've taken great pains to show that Christ's church will never peter out (forgive the pun). But how does that prove the RCC is Christ's church?Because Christ founded one church (body of Christ). Not several different bodies, he also willed unity. Unity in heart, unity in belief. There is only one Church on this earth that can prove that it was founded by Christ, and that has the unity in belief and heart, and that's the RCC. Everyother one is founded by Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII and many more. If Jesus were here today, would he be a Roman Catholic?I think the problem here is that you think that the RCC is a denomination It is not. The only denomination out there are everybody else. The Church was not founded to be divided or to be in denominations. There is no need for Christ to be a member of the RCC, he is the RCC. There is only one body of Christ and not 30000 bodies of Christ. I don't believe so for certain reasons which i've pointed out and which you are yet to address (even though i don't need further info on them)You only do not believe so because you have the wrong information on the teaching of the Church. If you knew the teaching of the Church you would believe so. Right from my response to your first post directed at me, i've said i find the "christian" label dubious and i don't ascribe it to myself , even though i respect the wishes of people who choose toIf you are not a Christian, then you are not a follower of Christ. The first place the apostles and disciples or the Church were first called Christians was in Antioch: Acts 11: 26 "and when he had found him he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a large number of people, and it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians." Unless you disagree with the passage above, you are Christian. i prefer to follow Him and His teachings rather than any "organised religion".then you do not go by the Bible, even the church back then was very organised. In the way they acted and preached. They didn't just follow what they thought was right, they all believed the same and they guarded the belief and it exists till today in the Catholic Church. They didn't all pick up the Bible (which wasn't existing at that time) and read and decided what they wanted to follow. I've not even hinted that you or anyone else should leave the RCC. It's not my business where anyone worships. whatever makes u happy, do it. I just pointed out FACTS which you can take or leaveIf you want to ask me questions about the belief of the RCC, then by all means go ahead. I would actually like to answer your questions and reason with you without distractions from many others. Maybe that was the problem, there were too many distractions, too many people posting things, and when I formulated my questions it was general. Point of correction you never pointed out FACTS, you pointed out OPINIONS. I can point out FACTS to you if you wants Now if you really want to have a discussion about RCC in a mature manner, I am willing to engage in that discussion with you. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 10:31pm On Oct 16, 2008 |
yeeeeeesssssssssssssssss!!!!!!Lol, send me some o. Thank you so much for your prayers. I got the e-mail and sent a reply. It was just what I needed thank you soo much. God bless you. apt wouldn't you say?YUP. HE HAS SURELY MADE HIS SALVATION KNOWN. I PRAISE HIM AND THANK HIM. A THOUSAND THANK YOUS ARE NEVER ENOUGH.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 4:51pm On Oct 16, 2008 |
Thank the Lord for me, the job that I got finally called me and put me on the schedule. So I will start working next week. But please offer up my intention for graduation, thank you. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Believers: What If You Die And Find Out That You Have Served The Wrong God? by Lady2(f): 2:04am On Oct 16, 2008 |
What will you do if after you have spent your entire life being a devoted Christian, Muslim, Jew or anyother religion follower, you find out that the god you believed in is not actually the right one?I happen to know for a fact that I believe in the right one. So not scared and not expecting any changes there. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 2:01am On Oct 16, 2008 |
I've tried to avoid you like i was warned to do.Why? I am seeking the truth just as you all have asked me to. Now that I am asking questions all of a sudden cat got your tongue. What are those people afraid that you might learn the truth and you might actually see reason and logic behind the Church's teachings? If we don't teach the truth and if we don't understand the Bible then what's the harm, at worst I could learn "the truth" When you were having fun asking questions no one said I will avoid you, but now that we are asking questions you refuse to answer. It only says hypocrites. If you truly are a truthful person, you would answer the questions. It is not about me, I could care less if you avoid me, but at least answer the question out of fairness. But you always seek me out OK, why do you insist that i be the one to answer your questions? please go back and read through my posts and tell me why you are asking me to answer for issues i never contested with u. whether your opinions on them are right or not. i didn't and still don't know your opinions on them. only thing on your list i talked about was your "keys to the kingdom" obsessionThe questions are not for you alone. They're for everyone to answer. I did not single you out in all honesty when I posted the questions the names I called are David and AKO, I never said your name. But you like going on a rampage on insulting people you do not know. I could care less anyway, I just want you to answer the question. For someone who seems to know the truth you avid spreading the truth. Will it kill you to answer the question? Me think not. At least be fair and answer the question. All you do is show that your motives are deceitful. If you feel the only question that is single out to you is the ne of the keys to the Kingdom of heaven having to do with Peter then answer it. If you feel that my questions are not fair, then say so. Would it be better if I post scriptural reference to the Catholic belief and then have you interpret it for me? Which ever way is best, I am willing to go that route. I just think it's hilarious that those who have claimed to know the Bible cannot even answer simple questions dealing with the Bible. It becomes a taboo to ask a question. It is never taboo to ask a question, you never know who is reading they might gain some knowledge. So spread the knowledge and in all fairness answer the questions. You can't bash us and make comments without backing it up. Even though it doesn't answer how come Peter's the first POPE, does ROCK translate into POPE? or the election of the Pope by cardinals, the Pope being God incarnate, the regalia, the involvement in politics and wars and racism all thatActually it does answer how come Peter's the first Pope. The Pope is the leader of the Church, hence when Christ said and upon this rock I will build my church. Rock does not translate into Pope, and maybe that has been the problem, the word POPE is what's bothering you, would it be better to call him "The One Christ gave the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven to"? Fine that's what he would be called. How does that mean that the Popes are successors of Peter? Because Christ said that the gates of hell shall never prevail against his Church. Meaning it will last for ever. You don't appoint a leader to a position and expect the position to die off when the person dies. If so then Christ didn't plan on his Church lasting till the end time. It only makes sense that when he positioned the apostles he planned on having successors to those positions, hence why today we have the Apostles who are priests, missionaries, bishops, archbishops, sisters, and so on. These people are sent out to spread the gospel, that's what apostle means. Why do we take apostolic succession so seriosuly, there's a passage by St. Paul (I can't think of it right now, I'll look it up for you) that spoke of those who were christians who were supposedly preaching the gospel to the churches and St. Paul basically stated that those people weren't "sent out" by any of the apostle, meaning no random person can wake up and walk into a church and start preaching. We also see in the acts of the apsotles that before anyone was sent out they had to receive blessing from the apostles, basically being ordained to spread the gospel. On several occasions apostle Paul talks about sending someone out to the Churches. That also showed that they were very organised and it wasn't a bunch of Churches on their own just doing whatever they want, they were united with the other churches that were founded at that time already. Lol, the Pope is not God incarnate that's just you adding your own in there, he is the Vicar of Christ, i.e. and Ambassador of Christ, and from the Power of the keys that were handed over to the office of Vicar of Christ, the Pope can certainly make decisions and as Christ said "whatsoever he binds on earth can be bound in heaven, and whatsoever he looses on earth is loose in heaven" What is wrong with the regalia is that bothering you? Those are vestments and they have several appropriate for the seasons of the liturgical year or for the appropriate mass that is being celebrated. For example for a funeral, black is worn. You all dress yourselves up, is it wrong for him to dress too? At least you all get to choose what you wear, he doesn't. Okay the Pope is not involved in world politics. He condemns actions of heads of state that are immoral for example the Iraq war and he meets with them because guess what, people live in those nations and Catholics live everywhere even in the middle east (they're running for their lives for their belief in christ) but they live there. The Church condemns the death penalty because we believe in sanctity of life, we beg the heads of state to care for the people and help in alleviating the ailment of the poor. And things of that sort. I think if people actually get to know what it is the Pope discusses they won't give the man such a hard time. He knows that these leaders have the power to change the world and he hopes that they have enough respect for him and Christ that they will listen and start helping people. All Catholics are called to be active in the politics of their nation so that laws can be passed to help people rather than condemn them, laws can be passed to respect the sanctity of life, marriage, and so on. We know that our faith doesn't just stop in church, it continues in school, at work, at the market, wherever we may be. Our faith isn't to just go to church, and let me get me and my own salvation and go home and do whatever. No we are to show the love of Christ to everyone, everywhere even to those who threaten us. We are to stop complaining, join our suffering to the sufferings of Christ on the Cross for the salvation of souls. If only you all will take your time and learn truly what the Church teaches you won't have a problem with us. You misunderstand us, and to be truthful when I have conversations with people who are sincere and they are saying things out of ignorance when they actually take their time to learn about the church and her teachings, they become catholics themselves. Why do I call a lot of people on this board deceitful, because they don't want to know what the church teaches, they just want to start strife, and you can tell who these people are because they are quick to ask questions and when questions are thrown at them they run and hide, and then say o you're asking the wrong questions, and that's irrelevant. There is no such thing as an irrelevant question. That says something about who they are, they cannot face the truth and they refuse to be fair. The next day up comes another bashing moment. Ask them to interpret certain passages they go an quote another passage, how is that interpreting? My thing is if you want to attack the Church, fine, but be willing to answer questions yourselves. It only shows cowards and deceitful people. Peter meaning rock explains that Christ created the position of the leader of the apostles, the Vicar of Christ, whom today we call Pope. Peter's name was changed from Simon to Peter for a reason, God doesn't just change a name for the sake of it, we see that in Abraham and in Jacob whom he called Israel. If Christ was changing Sions name to Peter meaning rock and then saying that on that Peter he wil build his church, I thought it would be clear to you that Christ created the position that we call Pope today, he wasn't called Pope in the beginning, until later on a couple of centuries later i believe, it's actually Papa meaning father, as in the father of the church (NOT GOD THE FATHER). But the head of Christ's church on earth. And then Christ went on to give him the Rock the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and gave him the power to bind and loose on earth. All that shows that Christ did create this position that we call Pope today. And as it is an office, it always has a successor. What pains me so much is when people say that the Catholic church killed off the true Christians, because in that statement they say that Christ's church wasn't strong enough, and that when Christ said that the gates of hell will never prevail against his church, he didn't mean it. I mean Christ didn't mean what he said? It's so silly that in their hatred and blindness and contempt for the Church they claim that those who were killed basically those who said that Christ isn't God and that his human nature is separate from his divine nature were the true Christians. It's just sad that people have so much hatred in their heart that they will go so far as to deny Christ's divinity. Granted they don't realise that they're doing so, but it's sad all the same. I don't know where you are going with this, but read my posts and tell me where my assertions tally with your questions and i will be glad to answerLike I stated above the quesions weren't posted towards you alone. Don't be offended, that is not my intent. Just answer the ones you feel you can answer. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 1:08am On Oct 16, 2008 |
God is able, the work he started he will surely complete it.Amen, thanks. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 12:31am On Oct 15, 2008 |
My point exactly.Then answer the question? @ Lady,You opinion has been duly noted, now answer the questions. Simply making statements does not work. If we are so lost, show us the way by answering questions. We have answered everyone's questions now answer ours. Ahn ahn for people that are not lost, you certainly don't know how to show people the way. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. HERE THEY ARE: 1) Did Jesus give the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven to Peter or not? 2) What are the keys to the kingdom of heaven? 3) Did Jesus give the keys to the kingdom of heaven to anyone other than Peter? If not, why not? 4) When Jesus asked Peter to feed his sheep three times? Was he reinstating Peter as the leader of the apostles or not? 5) Was Peter's name Peter before Jesus called him Peter when he gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven? If not, why then did Jesus call him Peter, what does it mean? 6) Why is it that they had to lay hands on the apostles before they were sent out? What's the significance on that and why is it that no random person could feel the Spirit and then start a church somewhere else as is done today? 7) Why is it that the apostles warned that the Church stay true to what they heard from the apostles or what has been handed down (tradition)? Can God have anything to do with the sinful? 9) If Mary was sinful when she conceived Jesus, how then can Jesus dwell in her, isn't he God? Once agains can God have anything to do with the sinful? 10) What does full of grace mean? 11) Was Jesus divinity ever separate from his humanity? 12) To make 11 clearer was Jesus' divinity ever separate from his humanity, ever? 13) If Jesus divinity was never separate from his humanity and Jesus is God, how then can Mary not be the Mother of God? 14) If you are still on the argument that Mary is not the Mother of God? Did your mother give you your soul? If not why then call her your mother? 15) If you still do not understand and are going to give the argument that Mary is not the same as your mother, then did Mary push Jesus out of her mouth or her vagina like your mother? 16) Now there are those of you who will make the argument that Mary had nothing to do with the forming of Jesus, which really won't make any sense, because that would only raise the question of why did Jesus have a mother then? 17) Why didn't God just drop him on the face of the earth as a full grown man or why wasn't he made into flesh as Adam was made into flesh, after all he is the New Adam? 18) Why did he have to come from the womb of a woman? 19) Do you even know what the womb of a woman is? 20) Why did Elizabeth call Mary the Mother of My Lord? 21) Who is the Lord she was talking about? Why did she even use the word "Lord" and what "Lord" was this? Was it the regular lord as you may use for a king or for landlord or is it "Lord" as in "Adonai"? 22) If Elizabeth called Mary the Mother of "Adonai" wouldn't it mean that she was calling Mary the Mother of God, or was "Adonai" used to call other lords? 23) If infact Mary is the Mother of ADONAI as Elizabeth called her (unless you will claim that that pasage is lying) then isn't she worthy of honour or praise? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 12:24am On Oct 15, 2008 |
Hello Lady, how far have you gone or still going about your jobStill going. Right now that's not even my biggest problem. I have to graduate first, and right now I have a problem with that. A professor says he doesn't remember an agreement to give me an Incomplete grade so that I can finish my coursework so to him, I have to wait till next semester to take the course with another professor. So if no graduation, no job. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Sin! by Lady2(f): 3:19am On Oct 14, 2008 |
They're the same thing. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 2:47am On Oct 14, 2008 |
~Lady~AH WASSUP!!! bodi dey inside cloth. Nna kedu, it nice to know it's you. How bodi? The problem is that some people argue just for the mere fact that they want to argue not because they possess superior knowledge. However, issues bothering on the Catholic Church can "never" be explained any better to some people because they already have a mindset. For such people no amount of explanation will make them change their minds about their opinions.'Tis true. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 1:37am On Oct 14, 2008 |
Lady, I must say that I appreciate the way you do justice to most of the issues raised so far. It simply proves that you are living the faith.Thanks, but you know they regard me as someone irrational and someone who doesn't use her brains. So now that I have asked them questions they won't give me an answer, how is my brain supposed to be used now. If when I seek knowledge from those who have it, I don't get it. I am really hoping someone will actually answer the question. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 1:22am On Oct 14, 2008 |
Your take here on celibacy appears balanced; but I'D doubt this is the "mainstream" opinion within the Catholic Church; several others appear to understand differently.It is the only opinion within the Catholic Church. Please understand we are not divided on our beliefs. It is not Omenuko's take or my take, it is actually the doctrine. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 1:12am On Oct 14, 2008 |
If i judge correctly, carmelilly's question (and I) is where is that requirement stated in your bible? We have clearly defined requirements for the office of bishops, priests, pastors in the bible . . . where did you find the requirement for celibacy?Just as you have requirements to a university you also have requirements to the priesthood, one of them being that if you are unmarried before joining the priesthood you are to remain that way. Now the thing here is it is a choice for the individual to make. If you do not want to be celibate then do not become a priest. The priesthood was there before the Bible dear. The Church was there before the Bible. the "rock" here refered to Peter's revelation of Jesus Christ not on Peter the individual (the same man Christ said Satan had sought to sieve like chaff).the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith. This is another oft propagated falsehood. The early church wasnt catholic at all. Men like Peter, Timothy and co were married. Paul advocated that those who felt like it shld get married. When the bible talks of Bishops, it describes then as HUSBANDS OF ONE WIFE!Oga the Church had to be catholic because it wasn't located in one place. Catholic is not a denomination it is a description. The Church was in Antioch, in Rome, in Ephesus, in Phillipines, in Corinth, and more so it had to be catholic. no one said anything of the sort . . . that was brought up to counter ~Lady~'s penchant for half-truths when she made this false claim -It wasn't a false claim, it would be a false claim if I was actually aware of the other embassies you brought to my knowledge, and then deliberatly try to ignore them when stating my post. Or are you unaware of what a false claim is and isn't. Dave, I HAVE NO REASON TO LIE. If I do not know something at a particular time, I answer a post to the best of my ability according to my knowledge of whatever subject. You however have twisted the truth and flat out ignored a lot and told a lot of false truths. So please don't confuse yourself. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 1:07am On Oct 14, 2008 |
I think the point ~Lady~ is trying to make is that celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of God is not a bad thing. The Church does not make it mandatory for people to be celibate to serve God. What is required is celibacy for the priesthood and no one is forced to become a priest. St. Paul teaches us that celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom is good.Thanks for understanding my point. The only Priests that are required to be celibates are those that join the priesthood without marrying. There are priests that were married and then joined the priesthood. I know this because there are several former protestant pastors who converted to catholicism and they wanted to become priests, they were permitted to do so even while being married. But if their wives were to die before them they cannot remarry in keeping with scriptures. Also my point was to show that you don't have to be a priest to be celibate. You also don't have to be a nun to be celibate. There are plenty of people who have given up marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and they live just as you and I live. I am actually considering doing so. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 12:45am On Oct 14, 2008 |
Neither can you factually tell us that Peter was celibate simply because the bible does not record who he travelled with.Ok so I finally went back to read your response to my question only to find that you don't have an answer to your own assertion. You stated that it is factual that Peter was not celibate, I asked you about it and all you do is turn it around on me? Sir seriously when will you start answering questions. I am only asking you about your own statement, but you can't provide proof. @~Lady~Someone can't be celibate because they're married? Do you even know what celibacy means? Did Peter travel with his wife? When he was traveling with Christ was his wife there? When all the apostles were traveling with Christ did they all log their wives with them? Peter means "owner of the keys to the kingdom"?? So when Jesus said "on this ROCK" you guys jumped to the conclusion that Peter meant Rock/gatekeeper? Gee! Catholics and their dogma and fairy tales lol. Really can't stop laughing.Please don't twist my words. I never stated that Peter means "owner of the keys to the kingdom of heaven". I stated that Peter means Rock and on that Rock (Peter) Christ built his Church. Christ then continued on to give Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven or did he not do so? That doesn't mean that Peter owns it. God gives us the power to trample over scorpion are we now the owner of power? And John the Apostle wrote the Book of Revelation?? Don't tell me that you do not know it was a different John. In fact Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not even write the Gospels. Hence the "according to" preceding the titles of the books and the absence of the 1st person narrative. John the Apostle didn't write any book of the Bible.Madam please it is called The Gospel accordig to Matthew because Matthew is giving his own witness to it, just as Luke's is called according to Luke. And it begins by saying that he too decided to compile the events of Jesus' life. The Gospel according to John ends by saying that "It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true" John 21:24 The according to refers to the writers. Mark wasn't one of the original disciples, but his book is attributed to him as according to him who wrote it. Madam there are not more than one Oliver twists, but there are four gospels. By the way, what denomination was the Early Church again? The one you say you guys "preserved". so funnyThey were not a denomination just as the Catholic Church is not a denomination. Ctholic simply means universal, it is one of the descriptions of the Church, just as the Church is described to be One, Holy, and Apostolic. So you might as well say the ONE CHURCH, or the HOLY CHURCH, or the APOSTOLIC CHURCH. There was never such a thing as denomination until the protestant reformation. They have denominations we don't. The only remotely sensible post came from Omenuko. Your responses are full of chaff programmed into you guys by the RCC, no independent reasoning. Just baseless, rote replies from every catholic you talk to. The Vatican not political? Gee, you guys USE YOUR BRAINS!!!!!!!!!Thank you, now please answer the questions. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 12:16am On Oct 14, 2008 |
Typical example of using the "wisdom of man and tradition of man" to try to justify ur belief, even though its not biblical.It was the wisdom and tradition of these men that were able to tell them which of the books in the Bible were in line with the teachings of the apostles, and you seriously think they misinterpreted it? The Church was not founded for the Bible, the Bible was compiled for the Church. So it's what the Church believes that is contained in the Bible. Why don't you hold the other writings of Paul and the other apostles to be scripture. To deny the authority of the Church is also to deny the Bible, it was on the Church's authority and infallibility that the Bible was able to be accepted, if the Church is infallible then so is the Bible. The Books of the New Testament were not written to be scripture the Church defined it to be scripture. If it was written to be scripture then why don't you all hold the other writings of the apostles especially Paul to be scripture? It's really funny how people scream don't go by the traditions of man, when the only traditions that there are are of man, including those in the Bible and Christ did ask us to continue to do one particular thing in memory of him and that is eat of his body and drink of his boold often. I would say that counts for tradition, but not just that St. Paul and St. John and St. Peter in their writings chosen for scripture tell us to stay true to that which we are taught. Well the didn't teach out of the New Testament there was no New Testament they taught out of tradition, of how it was shown to them by Jesus. What realy amazes me is how most of you really think that your arguments are authentic and new and unique to yourself. It is not, they have been used for centuries so in essence you too are staying true to the traditions of men. Let me remind you that it doesn't matter what the Catholic church "SAY" about Mary, what matters is what is what they are doing about Mary, just like it what mattered to God was that the Isrealites worshipped GRAVEN IMAGE (just like catholics worship, pray to and honours images/statue of things they call Mary, Jesus et al. )On the contrary it does matter what the Catholic Church says about Mary, you don't pick and choose which of the definitions of the Catholic Church to uphold. You all uphold the Trinity, yet that was defined and called the Trinity by the Catholic Church. The word Trinity is not found in the Bible, but the concept is, just as the concept of the other teachings of the Church are found in the Bible, even though the words used to define them are not. You may actually want to know what the practices of the Catholic Church is and not go off of what you heard or think you see. It really amazes me that the ones who claim to know it all about the Church are the ones who stand on the outside looking in. Those who have actualy been to the Church have come out saying they don't do anything contrary to the Bible. So you might want to try going to a Church first before you start making claims. While the Isrealites had graven images they were also asked to look up to the bronze serpent also an mage. Or is there a difference between gold and bronze images, did God specify that if you look up to the gold image it is wrong but if you look up to the bronze image it is right? Wasn't Jesus also in the image of man? And wasn't he worshipped? Why isn't man worshipped also? DId Jesus have separate image or is man deformed in image? You have two contrasts, one is the image of man, one man is worshipped the other isn't, yet they are both images, the other is of metals one is gold that was condemned and the other is bronze that was not condemned but commanded to be worshipped (according to your definition of worship), they are both images yet one was condemned and the other was not. What's the difference in both situations? Jesus himself is God and he too is an image, why is he worshipped? You will do well to actually find out what worship is. Like I stated before I know what I do when I go to church, I experience it and experience holds more weight than your argument. I live it so I know better than you do on it. God made it clear that should not WORSHIP OR PRAY TO NOBODY ELSE EXCEPT GOD, (even Jesus Christ Himself INTSTRUCTED US to pray that Our Father Who art in Heaven, )so whether or not the catholic church tell the truth about the worship of Mary and others things or not is irrelevant, simply because ACTIONS SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.Oga seriously find out what the meaning of prayer is and does this phrase ring a bell: "I pray thee" it is used many times in addressing humans and not God, why because the meaning of prayer is to petition. Now there are forms of prayer and that is not to be confused with the meaning of prayer. You have prayer in worsip in praise in adoration in meditation. But the literal meaning of prayer is petition. Petitioning is to ask for something. Now I know that you have asked someone to do something for you, which would then mean that you too have prayed to someone. So according to your thinking you have also prayed to others, other than God alone. Second point, we are asked to interceed for each other, I know you want to ignore the passage that speaks on it because you can't explain it, and it is contrary to your view. Third there is also the point that we ask those who are dead to interceed for us, well they're not dead, at least not according to Christ. If we die in Christ we also live in him. Last I checked we are all striving for eternal life. Well if they are dead then wouldn't mean that God isn't true on his promise. On that same point, a human is made of the soul and the body, although the body dies the soul does not, so in essence the person is living, only to be joined to the body at the resurrection. No they do not need a body to be in heaven, heaven is not physical. Continuing on the point, if we are told that we are body of Christ and the body of Christ is united and is not separated, do we now say that those who die are no longer in the body of Christ? Did Christ cut them off? How can this be when they are no longer walking on the earth and sinning, when we know the only thing that can separate us from the body of Christ is sin itself. If those who are gone from the earth are no longer sinning and they have died in Christ, how can they now be cut off. To make even more simple, if they die as Christians and we normally ask other Christians to pray for us, do they stop being Christians in their death? As to the point of worship, the word as it is used today is not applied to Mary. And is not practiced by Catholics and it shouldn't. However the term worship literally has more than one meaning, superior and inferior meanings, the superior applying to God and God alone and the inferior referring to any one deserving of honour, such as magistrates and mayors as is the case in England and elsewhere. Are now to say that the English are idolworshippers because they worship their magistrates and mayors, no absolutely not. Those who lack the meaning of the term worship are the ones who would view them as idolaters. Another point to make is that Chastity ring is not necessary for u to keep yourself till marriage for whoever your husband is going to be. Its not the works of righteousness that matter, its the intent and purpose of the heart that matter, u can abstain from sex without need for chastity ring.And where is it stated that chastity ring is necessary for me to keep myself until marriage? About symbolism, maybe you don't know the Bible but it is full of symbolism and a book that is very much filled with it is Revelations. Daniel is also full of symbolism. So how can the books of the Bible be full of symbolism yet symbolism is unbiblical. In Revelations we are also told that there are thoe with the sign of God on their foreheads. So dear symbolism is everywhere in the Bible. At this point i must say that i rest my case , cus its not my duty to argue or dilly dally about issues, my duty is to spread the Gospel, (which God sees me that i have tried to do as concerns you.)Please don't rest your case. You didn't rest your case when you were asking us questions, now that you are being asked questions you shouldn't rest your case. You should have the same zeal that you have to expose the Catholic church to spread the gospel. Well you are being given a chance to spread the gospel as that is your duty, so please answer the questions. The tradition of men is WORTHLESS, so whether or not catholic church has been doing something for thousands of years does not matter , what is wrong is still wrong,Well in that case Jesus was wrong and so were the apostles. Exactly what was done by them are being done now, if only you actually open your eyes to see it. Don't forget all the actions and sayings of Jesus and the apsotles are not written down and the only way that you will know fully what Jesus and the apsotle says is through the Church. We have the history till today. You can deny it all you want, it is the way it is. By the way the Tradition of the Church is not regular, random tradition, it is sacred tradition. So please call it what it is. To deny sacred tradition is to also deny the Bible. By the way am not asking u to be protestant or pentecostal, denomination is irrelevant, in the big scheme of things, what matters is the following and more:That's why the Catholic church is not a denomination, it is the only non-denominational Church. It is the only one that was founded by Christ, it is the only one Christ gave authority to. I sincerely pray that ABOVE ALL THINGS, GOD WOULD BRING YOU TO THE FULLNESS OF HIS GRACE AND MERCY SO THAT YOU'LL SEE THE ERRORS IN YOUR WAYS AND BELIEVE , AND COME BACK TO CHRISTAHH YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID, WHEN I JOINED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHERE CHRIST IS FULLY PRESENT, I WAS SO GLAD TO BE HOME!!! The door to home is always open for you too. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 9:32pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Wooow,Is this your way of saying that you can't answer the question? We know that Eve was created to be a mate for Adam and Adam to be a friend to God, while Adam and Eve sinned God needed to redeem the human race, so the questin remains why did the Saviour of the World have to come from a woman. God didn't need a woman to create man, so why did he have a woman give birth to the saviour? No my questions are not to show the worship of MARY, as it is widely known that the worship of Mary as God is HIGHLY condemned by the church, even though the rest of you want us to say we do something we do not do. I attend the Catholic Church sir, you do not, I believe I actually know what it is I am doing in there. Those who have experienced are better suited to speak than those who only have arguments. The experienced one does not answer to the one with only an argument. Maybe you haven't noticed, I CONVERTED TO the Catholic Church, after spending most of my life as a protestant and a pentecostal at that. Sweetheart, simply making statements over and over again won't make your statements true. Just answer the questions. It won't hurt. After all I am Catholic, and according to you all I don't know the Bible, so now I am asking you questions so that you can educate me. IGNORING my questions and saying "WOW" you can't ask questions like that doesn't cut it. You've been making claims about the Church and very boldly, since you are not Catholic you must now boldly educate us on the Bible. It's only fair that you answer the questions. It's not up to you to determine which questions are relevant or irrelevant, we didn't have that option sir, so you don't either. AND YES GOD TELLS US EVERYTHING. He does things a certain way for a certain reason. For example Jesus had to be a priest so that he can offer up sacrifice, only a priest can offer up sacrifice. Jesus had to be a King because HE has a kingdom. I mean there's so much more, so God doesn't just do things for the heck of it, he does it for a reason. So the question remains why did he give his word that the saviour was to be born of a woman. We know that God created Adam from the dirt and that it is not beyond him to do so again, so why not just create the New ADAM as he created the Old ADAM, after all the Old Adam was created without sin and it was after his creation that he chose disobedience. SO this New ADAM too could have been created the same way without sin, and then just choose not to disobey. So why not just have him come as the Old Adam did, it would lead to the same result. This is much more about Jesus than it is about Mary and if only you would recognise that everything about Mary is about Jesus. Everything about a mother is about the child, just ask a mother. Now if you feel my questions are too confusing then say so, and I would start going one by one. I'll ask one, you give an answer, and then I'll ask another one from your answer or just move on to another one. @Lady -Lol, I am not married. That is a rosary ring that I use as my chastity ring. It is my reminder to be chaste and true to God. And no I DON'T think I have any private questions to ask you. But thanks for the offer, If I change my mind I'll hit u up. Or maybe just to say wassup. The bible clearly says that God created "the Universe as we know it" in SIX LITERAL DAYS, yet the Catholic church says they believe in "Evolution", ( ),First of all the Bible says no such thing that is your interpretation of it. You also forget that the writing styles of that day is different than today. The way in which I would narrate a story to you would be different than the way they would narrate the story. Second the story had been passed down from generation to generation which actually gives support to the Catholic Chruch's stand of sacred tradition because the BIBLE itself is sacred tradition. Third I really hope you are not one of those people who would say that all scientists want to condemn the Bible's teachings. There are pletny of scientists that study evolution that are christians and I'm not talking about Catholics here and I know a lot of them who became Christians because they saw that the steps of evolution is more aligned with creation in the Bible. Fourth the Church has not officially stated that we believe in evolution. We have only stated that we are not condemning it because science is improving everyday. We do not believe it because it is not full proof, and it is only a theory and not an ideology, so it is not taught. Fifth, on evolution, the body may come in that way but that doesn't account for the soul, God still is there, he is the one who gives us a soul. If it turns out to be that evolution is full proof, then the soul is still from God. Sixth, too many people associate evolution to atheism incorrectly. Evolution does not disprove the existence of God, just becuase atheists want to hijack it and claim it disproves God doesn't mean it does. It only shows their lack of understanding of the Bible. So dear don't be fooled by atheists into thinking that evolution means there is no God. It doesn't |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Avoid Distractions In Church? by Lady2(f): 9:07pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Further, Aloy.Emeka, is saying that the Males seem to be bent on making sure that Females go to hellfire "eternal damnation" as she put it! What do you have to say about that? An sure you will remember what you enjoy quoting of ahadith. Here is your sister's casual observation of Christian male mantraFirst of all, Aloy.Emeka would be a man from the name and his tone. Second it was the other way around. Sometimes it helps for you to read before you repsond. Emeka abeg stay focused on God. Here's a funny story. A Priest was making his procession into the sanctuary, while walking he noticed a young girl who wore some risky clothes to mass, he turned around and picked up a garment and threw it on her. At lady went to mass one day, while sitting, she looked ahead at the pews and saw a young lady who seemes like she was naked. No clothes were visible for her shoulders and her legs. I in my younger years have made some very bad choices in clothing, thank God for my mothers at church, they send me home to change, luckily I lived around the corner from my parish. It can be very distracting but as true brothers and sisters in Christ we should caution others of their conduct and dressing to church. As for the breast feeding, SERIOUSLY  ? Women do that in the Church??They can at least step to back. With the loud speakers at these churches I doubt they'll miss the pastor's sermon. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 8:58pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Wow ebos, I will keep you in my prayers. I am glad you are doing well. Please let us know how you're coping. |
| Politics › Re: Lifestyle Of Iranian President - A Lesson For Our Leaders by Lady2(f): 8:54pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Oh my gosh!!! This is a ridiculous article. I am sorry, but does comparing one devil to another devil mean the one is worthy of being a role model to the other?? COME ON !!!!You captured exactly what I wanted to convey!!! Ditto!!! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 8:28pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
A K O you know very well that those questions have been asked many times, and we have answered them, but because you all don't see our answers as being authentic, we're asking questions of you. You can't ask us questions, we give answers, you tell us that even after the answers we have it wrong, then we ask you questions so that you that have the right answer wil educate us on it and you refer us to the same questions that you asked that we gave you answers to that you've deemed untrue. We have attempted all those questions, but we know the outcome of it, you all will go on a catholic basing spree and completely "ignore" our questions. How about you go ahead and answer our questions for a change. Well Jesus was born of a woman simply because:Ok that's all fine and dandy but why did he have prophecies of His Son being born of a woman. Why a woman? We know he'll keep his word, but why is his word that Christ would be born of a woman? Why wasn't his word that he will create from dirt the New ADAM as he created the Old Adam, that would have accomplished the same goal. Eve was the mother of the living, well ADAM was a living being but Eve wasn't his mother, so if God is to have a New Adam why not have him come to the world as the Old Adam? @Lady, nawa , I pray God would save ur soul before u get to the point of no return in terms of catholism, abeg before u go too far in the belly of the beast, please remember that its written that :Well thank you very much, but I have certainly taken my time to study the word, while I am still learning I do know the Catholic Church to speak the truth. Thank you for attempting to answer the questions, would you mind continuing and answering the other ones too? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 7:45pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Hello Lady, i don't think i have heard about it.It just happened yesterday, you can get info online |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 7:39pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Anyways, the Bible makes no mention of the "keys to the kingdom" but if you guys gave it to Peter, I sure as hell hope Judas wasn't keeping the spare!Then what is this? Matthew 16:18-19 18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." DID THAT ONE JUST MYSTERIOUSLY APPEAR IN THE BIBLE? OR IS IT NOT IN YOUR BIBLE? Like i said before David pointed out to me that you are the plague of NL, your ideas are baseless or at best, based on DOGMA and not on scripture. Did you at all read anything posted in your absence from the thread? In all respect, you are really ruining the image of RCC. Leave the debate to the likes of omenukoYet, I am the one who've been answering all yor questions from scriptures. Nne if you seriously do not kow the answer then say so, instead of letting pride cloud your judgment. Seriously, If you regard me to be so little then prove me to be so little. Answer the questions. Omenuko, they won't answer the question. Because if they do, they will be inclined to become Catholics and no one wants to be wrong. Let me give you a run down of how it will go. They will ignore the questions and jump to assertions, and then quote passages from the Bible that have absolutely nothing to do with the questions. And then make assertions that we Catholics refuse to base our belief on scripture. They've made their point we have all heard and listened, and now I am asking them to tell us what scripture really says, but no they won't do that. You say i should answer her questions?Then why don't you do the honourable thing and educate me. Answer the quesions. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 7:28pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
I might chip in from time to time. But I've retired from lengthy posts, like replying your 20+ questions.No, I didn't miss it, but because of your claim that we do not know the Bible I asked questions for you to answer. I am only trying to learn from those who know the Bible. I would really appreciate it if you would chip in this time. Chipping in to say "the catholics don't follow the Bible" does no good at all. It would be best if you educate us on the Bible as you have claimed that you've tried but we won't get it. Well I am trying to get it. And as one would normally ask questions when they don't get something, I am asking questions so that I can get it. Or is this your way of saying you don't know the answers or are unwilling to answer or unwilling to engage in a reasonable discussion but to drop statements that insults others. For people who know the Bible, why is it so hard to get you all to anwer questions? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Ogboni Cult And Anti Catholic/ Islam by Lady2(f): 7:16pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Hi Pilgrim, its amazing the way you despise catholics, what actually have they done to you. I think you should concentrate on your salvation and leave judgement of which church is doing the right thing to God. I've seen all your efforts and strenght trying to prove your points on how catholics are not christians and on what the Pope said about Mary and also on how they worship Mary. Can you please channel these efforts towads preaching against fonication, abortion, corruption and other ills facing our society today and leave catholics alone. I just want to tell you that if you hate something or someone so much, you are attatched to that person with an emotional feelings that is as strong as iron, whereas, that person taking control over your happiness. Plz argue more on more life changing issues and not church[/quote |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Has God Been Keeping Quiet Over My Predicament. by Lady2(f): 7:11pm On Oct 13, 2008 |
Help me brothers somehow my faith in God is waning away. I have searched for job with enough fasting and praying but yet nothing seems to be happening. The most painful part of it is that i am an ex seminarian. Judging from my antecedents while in the seminary i never knew God would just keep quiet over my predicament this long besides i even made second class upper in philosophy and mass communication respectively.Hi, I am praying that you do not loose hope. To me it sounds as if you are telling God what to do instead of listening to what he wants you to do. Take a moment and talk to God. Sit in his presence without distractions and devote your time to listening to him. God speaks to us all the time, but we don't stop to listen. Maybe what you're looking for is not what God wants. You can certainly try your best but leave the rest to God. I too don't have a job and it is very difficult but a prayer that I remember everyday is the Lord's Prayer, especially the part of "Give us this day our daily bread" sometimes we skim through it and pray it just because Christ spoke it, but we don't stop to think of what it means. I don't have a job, but I have my daily bread everyday and honestly that's all I need, I don't know if tomorrow will come for me. I am not saying that you shouldn't look for a job, I am saying stop feeling sorry for yourself or stop complaining and thank God for today, while listening to what he has to say for where he wants you to go. Sometimes what we want is not exactly what God wants for us. Peace of Christ be with you. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Glory To Jesus, Honour To Mary! All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up! by Lady2(f): 3:44am On Oct 13, 2008 |
Hello all. Did you hear the news of the newly canonized saint, the very first female indian. Thanks be to God. keeping you all in my prayers. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Anglicans, Let's Talk by Lady2(f): 3:28am On Oct 13, 2008 |
Thank God the Anglicans and Lutherans knew to leave the Roman Church who were beginning to sell keys to the kingdom of God.MADAM, Abeg not that I have anything against the Anglicans or the Lutherans but it would be nice of you all to actually know the history before you even speak. Anglican church came to be because Hnery VIII wanted to divorce his wife and marry another and the Catholic Church wouldn't let him, staying true to scripture that says he who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. The Church won't grant him a divorce so he got angry, he decided that he needed to be the head of the Catholic Church and not the Pope. That all the apostles and disciples should be answerable to him and him alone, all because he wanted to divorce his wife. The Church refused so he went ahead and founded the anglican church. When his wife refused to leave the church he locked her up and deprived her of his daughter until she died. He then launched a massive killing of all Catholics, until he died and then his daughter with his first wife came to the throne and made Catholicism the official Church of england again, and Killed protestants (this is where America came in, and the KKK killing of catholics in america) out of anger to avenge her mother until her younger sister Elizabeth came into power and killed more Catholics. So I guess it is right to say thank God that Henry VIII decide to make himself head of God's church so that he can disobey the word of God. Now for the Lutherans. That one is even funnier, Luther decided that several books of the BIBLE were not to be in there, such as James, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation. He also questioned the writings of Esther, Ecclesiastes, he said Kings was to be more believed than Chronicles. Well later on the four books of the New Testament was put back into the Bible. I still want to know why. A lot of you are so happy that he left the Church and as some would say "exposed" the Church. Yet he denied the very same book that you all call the Word of God, that you all swear by, that you all live your life by, that you all are so quick to quote. It's so funny thought because Luther said that the RCC was the LovePeddler of Babylon that was spoken of in Revelations, but still claimed that Revelations wasn't to be held as truth. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. It makes one wonder. So yup thank God for them, they deny Christ, they deny the Word of God, but they were the true Christians. Amazing!!!!!! By the way, if there was one thing that Luther and the Anglicans did not deny it was Mary as Mother of God, and thy believe in the saints. They never denied the honour that is due her. They also don't deny that the bread and wine once consecrated is the REAL PRESENCE of Christ. ANYWAY, most of you are follow follow, you hear onething here, and you take it and run with it, without even checking. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 1:55am On Oct 13, 2008 |
catholic doctrine, tradition, dogma . . . what is the meaning of all three? Which of them is "rooted in scripture"? You seem confused by bogus namesCatholic doctrine, laws of the Church derived from the commandments. Catholic tradition, pratices of the church handed down by the apostles Catholic dogma, the unchangeable, for example, the Trinity, the Assumption of Mary. Those are unchangable, we do not hold th epower to cahnge them. There will always be a Trinity and Mary will always be in heaven. Seriously Dave, I would have more respect for you if you would actually take your time to know what it is the church teaches rather than speaking ignorantly. It was contrary to the strongly held belief system of the old testament jews. If you paid any attention to the bible at all you'D notice Christ had trouble SOLELY with the religious leaders of His time - pharisees, saducees and the temple priesthood . . . nowhere are we told of Pilate of Herod trying to kill Him.Actually Herod did try to kill him, remember the slaughter of all first borns when the three wise men informed Herod of the King? Remember that Mary and Joseph had to flee to Egypt to avoid Herod? The presence of embassies, papal consuls, visa requirements . . . is a strong indication that the catholic church sees itself as a political entity. Neither Christ nor the apostles had any of theseAnd society today is not the same as the society of then. There were greedy leaders of countries that wanted to be the head of Christ's Church, to avoid that the Church needed to become its own entity, Henry VIII had to be avoided. Does that mean God is hateful? I mean i didnt put that into Revelations 2 . . .So you are now the self appointed man of God. The Book of Revelations does not speak of the Catholic Church. If you don't know how to properly interpret the Bible then please stop being blasphemous. The Catholic Church is not the LovePeddler of Babylon, it has stood of 2000 years God wouldn't have allowed it to stand without confusion and without division. The only Church that does not stand divided is the Catholic Church. There other churches well, when pastor says something they don't like they decide to pack up and move to another church, looking for the pastor that will tell them what to hear. It reminds me of the disciples that abandoned Jesus when he told that "unless they eat of his flesh and drink of his blood they won't have eternal life" When you don't hear something that you want, you condemn the Church, you hear things you don't understand and you condemn the Church. The Pharisees too knew scripture just as you do, yet they misunderstood Christ. The very one they were waiting for they didn't recognise. As they are blind so are a lot of Christians, because it doesn't make sense to you, then it must have been from the devil. You know I thought of nairaland and you david and the others when I was reading a particular passage in scripture having to do with human beings forgiving, and I will share it here with you: Matthew 9:2-8 2 And there people brought to him a pralytic lying on a stretcher. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Courage, child, your sins are forgiven." 3 At that, some of the scribes said to themselve, "This man is blaspheming." 4 Jesus knew what they were thinking, and said, "Why do you harbor evil thoughts? 5 Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven' or to say 'Rise and walk'" 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" - he then said to the paralytic, "Rise, pick up your stretcher and go home." 7 He rose and went home 8 When the crowds saw this they were struck with awe and glorified God who had given such authority to human beings. I always wonder if some of you ever ask yourself questions as "why did God have to become man to be our salvation?" he had the power he could have done it any other way, why did he have to be in the flesh to do it? When Jesus spoke in this pasage why did he say the Son of Man, why not the Son of God, afterall these people knew he was calling himself the Son of God. What does Son of Man mean? Why is he even the Son of Man when no man is his father. Why did he have to perform certain things in the person of man. WHy come to earth at all? Please no cliche answers such as he came to save us from sins or he loves us, we could have been saved other ways, this is God, he could have done it in many other ways. Why become human? What's the significance of becoming human? What's the importance of becoming human? Why did he give authority to man? After so many centuries the authority wasn't there but all of a sudden we have authority? Why? And what is that authority? If he said "just as the Father sent me so I send you" then wouldn't that mean that we can do as he did? After all we do have the ability to do it, but well you all deny that we have the ability to do certain things. See some of them you easily accept because it will make you sleep better at night, but there is one particular one which is so very clear, but because you don't understand or don't accept you don't see the dignity that God has given to man. There are many more things you don't accept. And it's okay, many are called but few are chosen. I seriously think if some of you start answering these questions or at least start thinking of these questions you will begin to understand the teaching of the Catholic church. Anyway, I don't even want to get into any squabble until you all are ready and willing to answer questions. It would be nice for you to interpret certain scripture that has been put your way. Since we Catholics don't know the Bible and don't understand it. We're still waiting for you all to tell us the proper meanings of these scriptures. I have asked questions about what New Testament was used by the apostles or Jesus himself to teach, since all of you believe in Bible only. I haven't received a response. David attempted by providing colossians unfortunately he missed a part of it. Now the passage in colossians says that the Church there should share that letter written by Paul with the Laodiceans, and the letter to the laodiceans was to be shared with the colossians, now the question remains, if Paul was writing his letters to be scripture where is the letter to the laodiceans and why do you not hold it scripture? if the letter of laodiceans were to be shown today would you hold it to be scripture, if so wouldn't that ridicule the argument of sola scriptura since the books in the Bible are the only ones held to be scripture? or if you don't think that Paul's writing were written to be scripture, why do you hold them to be scriptre today? I am strictly speaking on the letters of Paul, because colossians was written by Paul. I and several others Catholics and non catholics alike would appreciate it if those of you who so wish to say the Catholic church does not go by scripture wuld kindly interpret several scripture that you have conveniently dodged and answer questions put at you. You have put us catholics under the microscope and you seriously feel we do not know scriputure then by all means can you all please provide us with the correct interpretation. 1) Did Jesus give the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven to Peter or not? 2) What are the keys to the kingdom of heaven? 3) Did Jesus give the keys to the kingdom of heaven to anyone other than Peter? If not, why not? 4) When Jesus asked Peter to feed his sheep three times? Was he reinstating Peter as the leader of the apostles or not? 5) Was Peter's name Peter before Jesus called him Peter when he gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven? If not, why then did Jesus call him Peter, what does it mean? 6) Why is it that they had to lay hands on the apostles before they were sent out? What's the significance on that and why is it that no random person could feel the Spirit and then start a church somewhere else as is done today? 7) Why is it that the apostles warned that the Church stay true to what they heard from the apostles or what has been handed down (tradition)?  Can God have anything to do with the sinful?9) If Mary was sinful when she conceived Jesus, how then can Jesus dwell in her, isn't he God? Once agains can God have anything to do with the sinful? 10) What does full of grace mean? 11) Was Jesus divinity ever separate from his humanity? 12) To make 11 clearer was Jesus' divinity ever separate from his humanity, ever? 13) If Jesus divinity was never separate from his humanity and Jesus is God, how then can Mary not be the Mother of God? 14) If you are still on the argument that Mary is not the Mother of God? Did your mother give you your soul? If not why then call her your mother? 15) If you still do not understand and are going to give the argument that Mary is not the same as your mother, then did Mary push Jesus out of her mouth or her vagina like your mother? 16) Now there are those of you who will make the argument that Mary had nothing to do with the forming of Jesus, which really won't make any sense, because that would only raise the question of why did Jesus have a mother then? 17) Why didn't God just drop him on the face of the earth as a full grown man or why wasn't he made into flesh as Adam was made into flesh, after all he is the New Adam? 18) Why did he have to come from the womb of a woman? 19) Do you even know what the womb of a woman is? 20) Why did Elizabeth call Mary the Mother of My Lord? 21) Who is the Lord she was talking about? Why did she even use the word "Lord" and what "Lord" was this? Was it the regular lord as you may use for a king or for landlord or is it "Lord" as in "Adonai"? 22) If Elizabeth called Mary the Mother of "Adonai" wouldn't it mean that she was calling Mary the Mother of God, or was "Adonai" used to call other lords? 23) If infact Mary is the Mother of ADONAI as Elizabeth called her (unless you will claim that that pasage is lying) then isn't she worthy of honour or praise? Well those are just a few questions, more will be asked of you all. A K O, DAVID, AND CO. PLEASE TRUTHFULLY ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. Since we don't know the Bible, well we're trying to learn and understand from those of you who do, so answer our questions. If you don't you won't be doing your rightful duty as a Christian in spreading the true word of God. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 6:13pm On Oct 09, 2008 |
@ david i can't copy and paste for some apparent reason. i didn't know much about the other nations, but i do know that saudi arabia has a king and that's through bloodline, so i don't see their impotance in this. but can you factually show me that what i stated above on peter is untrue. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? by Lady2(f): 5:36pm On Oct 09, 2008 |
You've solved the seeming mystery on this thread!The origin of the Catholic church. Bravo!And you've shown just how much you lack english comprehension. I said the earliset record, maybe you don't know what a record is, but it is a way of keeping information, now the earliest record meaning the farthest that we have found to date, but does not mean that it is not the only ones. But still your argument is weak Revelation was probably written between the dates of 81-96 A.D. meaning apostles were still alive at that time because Revelations was written by St. John the apostle. SO WHETHER YOU ARE CHRISTIAN OR NOT, WHY DON'T YOU ACTUALLY KNOW INFORMATION FIRST BEFORE SPEAKING. Ever been to Rome?No, and I don't need to go there to know that Catholics don't practise Idolatry. I don't need to go to china to know what they look like or what food they eat. If you don't know what idolatry is, then just ask. Do you even realise that the Vatican is a political entity? Do you know your own church?? Did you follow the election of Pope Benedict?One the Vatican in not a political entity. It is not governed by the world, true, but it does not lead as the rest of the world does. It does not create allies or 'governmental' rules. Got it. Last I check I didn't vote for the Pope and neither did other Catholics. I didn't see campaign slogans or party punch lines or party conventions. Could you kindly tell me what political party he is affiliated with? To mention a few. and by the way, there's still no official apology. The Pope just "regrets" that it happened. well, so do we all!I didn't actually realise that actions of a few equals doctrine. So according to your reasoning, my guess is because humans commit murder then there is a doctrine of murder being allowed. The Pope has officially apologised or were you sleeping? Please can you define apology? Because I thought regretting and publicly stating so is an apology. Thank God those who were hurt knew it was an apology PUHLEEZ! Do not display your ignorance. You do not know the role of the Vatican in WWII and The HolocaustYou know what why don't you educate me on it? Did we call for the war, did we advocate the war, maybe you didn't know that a lot of priests died in the holocaust. maybe you don't know the story on the persecution of catholics, maybe you don't know about the ku klux klan hunts for catholics. before civil rights who were the target for the kkk. sweetheart when you actually know history instead of speculation, come back and have this convo, k. Lo, Peter "The 1st Pope" according to RCC, was happily married. How do I know? He had a mother-in-law whom Christ healed of an ailment!Stop picking and choosing what to talk about, who said he asn't married? Was Jesus wrong for saying that there are those who choose to stay unmarried? Peter was married but he was still celibate, or did his wife and family run around the world with him when he was spreading the gospel? Were they in jail with him? As for the fist pope, did Jesus give him the keys to the kingdom of heaven or not? did he give it to any other personother than peter? why did peter get the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and why is his name peter? do you know what peter means? I mean Jesus said there are those who choose to stay unmarried for the kingdom of heaven or is that too much english language to comprehend. Read it really slowly, you may be able to pick it up. And yes Paul spoke about his unmarital state, and he applauded it. He let them know there was nothing wrong with it, he even encourage those like him to stay like him. Or is St. Paul wrong? It amazes me those who say they are having fun are the ones that are getting their panties in a bunch replying to me. Why did you reply? Jesus was certainly persecuted for doing the right thing as the Church is also persecuted for doing the right thing. Jesus himself said, if they persecute me how much more will they persecute you. So when the persecutions stop then I will be worried, but I am satisfied with the persecutions, it only means we are doing exactly as Jesus did. See they thought Jesus was doing wrong, just as you all think we are doing wrong. They didn't understand Jesus, just as you all don't understand us. Jesus never wavered his stance just as we will never waver our stance. They thought he was in cohorts with the devil, you all think we are in cohorts with the devil. They all thought Jesus was arrogant, especially when he forgave sins, you all think we're arrogant. See a resemblance? it only goes to show the Body of Christ, the Church. I mean the list is long babe, for 2000 years the Church stands, and it will stand for forever. So cry, bang your head on the wall, name us whatever you want, we will still be here. As Jesus himself said when he entrusted the keys to the kingdom of heaven to Peter after giving him that name, "the gates of hell shall never prevail against it. Infact let me display it for you. Matthew 16:17-19 17 Blessed ae you Simon son of Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And I say to you, you are Peter (meaning rock), and upon this rock, i will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHatever you bind on eart, shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven." If you don't know, now you know. |
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