₦airaland Forum

No, they are not.

Ok are you happy now?

no problem ma'am. by all means go ahead and count with your hair if You want.

Thank you.

haba you want to trigger Lady to start her usual venomous rage anytime she's asked to biblically validate her doctrine?
Next they'll ask you were in the scripture it was agreed that the book of Solomon must come before Genesis.

This coming from a man that can't use scripture to validate sola scriptura. You're running from thread to thread in hopes that the ones here haven't seen the other ones to see that David the Pastor the quick to quote scripture man acn't even quote scripture to support his belief that it must be from scripture alone.

DUDE, You're so lame!!!!

Ewoo! this resident heretic has come again. the body itself is CORRUPTIBLE. Listen to brother Paul - Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Stop picking and choosing you deceitful thing, what did Paul say about sowing corruptible?

Please take a look at the man, his body was exhumed after more than 40 years, does it look like it has decayed?
Look if you don't hold a belief, fine, move along and let people rest in peace.
It is people like you that drive people away from the Christian faith, you run around like a mad man, you act like your body is restless, you act like your body is on fire if you don't spew lies.

I believe there have been a few people who have rebuked you and asked you not to comment on them.

You seemes a bit humble in the other thread David, what happened? Your fingers chopped off? You can't type? Why can't you answer the questions Dave?

No you resort to saying o they want to promote their lies. If it doesn't make sense to you does not mean it is wrong. Jesus didn't make sense, and so they opposed him.
It is only right that His Church won't make sense to you, because you oppose him.
When Jesus did things that people couldn't comprehend the resorted to saying he was with the belzeebul.
The Church teachings things that you cannot understand, and so you resort to saying that we are worshippers of anyting other than God.
Notice a trend?


Anyway, Dave, you're not doing me any harm by lying to yourself. You're only lying to yourself. Me my life is just fine and I don't feel like my body is on fire if I don't lie.
I am content, want to feel content like me, look to God, he's the only one that can help you.

@Lady

Did you look at the link provided?

Yeah and? I already know what stigmata is. I don't need a link to tell me.
You got a problem with it?

yes, the "point" that talking with "lady" is a like speaking to a rock to draw water. A deluded mule can't be saved. Is it any wonder you don't really appear on the other real christian threads because deep down you're empty and spiritually a whitened sepulchre?

I can't believe I see the day that David who asks for scripture scripture scripture can't even provide scripture.

What happened to sola scriptura?

To each his own. John 1 tells me the bible is the WORD OF GOD which is Christ Himself . . . if it is nothing but "sacred tradition" to you then good luck.

You say that as if it's a bad thing. Lol, I don't need your luck, I have sacred tradition.

[size=13pt]LOLOLOLOLOL, WOW!!! DAVID CAN'T BACK UP HIS BELIEFS WITH SCRIPTURE!!!! WHOA!!!!![/size]

Simple, sincere, from the heart and it was accepted of him. What is the biblical significance of using beads to "meditate"? What is the spiritual significance of the recitation of standard prayers? Counting the number of prayers? Where did Christ teach this?

Where did Christ teach against it?

When did counting become wrong?

I remember a simple prayer by the publican in the bible . . . Luke 18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

So is this the way we are supposed to pray, is it a command?

How can you be "encouraged in your faith" by something that is clearly frowned upon by the bible?

Where? Show us where it said that the dead cannot appear to the living. Also show us where it says that we cannot use those that came before us as examples, because the Bible is full of using Abraham and Isaac, and Jacob and more as examples, and it was "encourage in your faith" so why wasn't that wrong?

good. Question 3 crossed out.

Do you believe the rosary prayer is a strict formof ritual?

lol Lady . . . nah i'm done with ur usual hysterical rants. When Omenuko is done i will be done as well . . . why i am content is simple . . . i'm not the only one on these boards firmly aware of how low you will go to score a point.

Omenuko came here and with less than 2-3 sentences answered the very questions you struggled to duck on more than 3 threads. No be me and you . . . pilgrim has said the same, queenisha also has the same view about you. If i were in the minority i'D be tempted to take a second look at the venomous rubbish you call a post.

Thanks but no thanks. Only fools argue with mules.

Uncle Omenuko can we get somewhere please?

FINALLY YOU GOT THE POINT!!!

Now don't do unto others what you won't want them do unto you.

But it's amazing for someone who is always screaming scripture scripture and alsways asking for back up, you yourself could back it up.
Point is the scripture is "sacred tradition"

I'm just tired of you disrespecting the Bible = sacred tradition.

Haba . . . aunty calm down. this is an apalling lie . . . ordinary 1 Corinthians 13 talks about the virtues of Charity. Haba . . . this is unbecoming.

Clap for yourself, so  something is actually getting to your brain, so after I quote that particular one for you, you learned, I am very proud of you.

I need to quickly learn how to quote with te person's name above it so that I can show everyone where it is you asked for me to show you where the virtues were taught by the apostles.

Now clap for yourself, oya kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa, again again kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa, again again kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa kpa, Good for you, you have learned the lesson of the day.

Now what other virtues are there? common you know this one, common common common you know it, you know you know this one, in case you didnt learn the other ones I posted for you, hint hint, one has to do with working hard and not being lazy, it is in the scripture, remember scripture? you love it don't ya, now look to it and it will show you the virtues.

The scriptures Jesus used to preach? - Did i not quote this for you? - Luke 4:16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

  17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

  18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

  19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

  20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

  21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears

so did Jesus tell them that the dove came from heaven and rested on him and a voice came down from heaven saying "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"
Did he use the scripture to explain the Holy Communion?
Did he use scripture to explain his birth?
Did he use scripture to exlain his death?
Did he use scripture to tell of the Holy Spirit?

Ha you think quoting one thing is enough for you, oh no, see scripture doesn't just include the Old Testament it also includes the New Testament and I am asking you about the New Testament because you have already let us know many times that the Old Testament was done away with.

So please start showing me the scripture that Jesus used to teach the New Testament. Show me what book his birth was written in that he gave to his apostles to read, show me the book that contained his death that he preached out of, show me the one that contained his baptism that he taught out of, show me the one that he used to teach about the wedding at Cana, show me the one he used to teach that the angel appeared unto his Mother, show me the one that he used to teach on John the Baptist.

Se you like quoting scripture and the rest of us are mugus that don't know anything, so since you sabi, start to teach us.

the scriptures the apostles used? Haba again aunty . . . you don't have to lie

Did Paul state that his letter was scripture, show me scripture that says Paul said his letters are scripture?
How did his letter end up being scripture?

What about the other apsotles, did they write it with him? Which one were they using or was it only the Roman and Phillipians and Corinthians that were Churches, we know Antioch was a church, which one did they use? Because I don't see one letter to the Antiochs in the Bible o.

We know these "scriptures" were the books of the law and the old testament prophets. We also know that Paul actively asked that his letters be distributed around the churches to be read to the saints. I quoted one for you and you ran away to twist it.

I asked you questions about it and I am still waiting on an answer on it. You provided Colossians, but you failed to tell me which scipture they used before the epistle of colossians was written, they had to have been a church before the epistle, so which one was used?
The verse you posted also spoke of the epistle to the Laodicians that were to be shared with the colossians, why isn't it scripture today? Was it not an epistle too, and if Paul indeed wrote the epistles to be scripture why isn't it in your Bible?

Lady, even though we quarrel . . . i would never lie against you . . . it is shameful

Anyone who reads this would be laughing knowing full well that this statement itself is a lie. Look learn to be onest with yourself, I know it's hard to do, we are all human, but at least make an honest attempt not to lie to yourself.

Where did i ever mention Ps 23 AT ALL or as a prayer? Do you just make things up as you go along? Where did i ever insinuate that the prayers we say MUST be in the bible?

If the prayers must not be in the bible then why are you questioning the rosary, if i want to count with chicken fingers what is it to you?
if i am saying the Lord's prayer and i say i want to say it ten times and i throw stones in the air to count, what is it to you?
will you die from it?
i am asking about psalm 23 bcus it too is a prayer just as the rosary, if your prayer is not from the bible, then stop throwing stones.

You still haven't shown how the Hail mary is unbiblical, the glory be is unbiblical, the Lord's prayer is unbiblical, the apostle's creed is unbiblical, the scripture that is used for meditation is unbiblical, because that's what the rosary prayer is, we just don't see why we need to call it the "hail mary, glory be, apostle's creed, scripture used for meditation prayer" sorry but that's a mouthful. So when you are able to use scripture, that you love so much to refute the above then you can come up and respond to me.

Until then go and learn christian virtues and yes they are in the Bible. You may want to learn that there are not 9 commandments but 10.

The devil has been around for 6000 years.

ROTFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

omenuko, don't mind David, if you ask him question now he won't know how to answer, all he knows is to start rouble and misinterpret the Bible.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I EVEN BOTHER WITH A MAN THAT SAID THERE ARE NO LONGER 10 COMMANDMENTS, AND THAT THE APOSTLES DIDN'T TEACH CHRISTIAN VIRTUES.

Tell him to produce the scripture that Jesus and the apostles used to preach the gospel, he won't because he cannot.
Watch him skip over bringing scripture, instead he's going to go on asking the same questions.

Good luck getting him to answer a question.

oh dear! that was so touching!
i quite admire your disposition towards the whole thing!

look on the bright side sis, there's always a reason for everything that happens in our lives, k!
we'll continue to pray for the repose of the soul of your stepmum.

Eternal rest grant to her oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon her, may she rest in peace amen!

know lady, that you can always count on us (your familly also) here on this thread k! we sure are generous with our prayers!
We're really happy for you girl!

Thank you so much. You know what when I come home we musttttooo have a BIG REUNION!!!

and pray with rosaries and talk to the dead? no thanks. Christ didnt do neither will i.

Well Jesus preached the gospel so um actually he didn't really have to pray the rosary cause he was preaching it.
And um what if I were to show you that Jesus did talk to the dead, would you do so too?

Empty drivel really meant to sidestep the main question. You might as well ask if they ever saw the book of Isaiah or read the laws of Moses.

So are you saying that colossians isn't scripture that it was now Moses and Isaiah that were used. I minute ago you showed colossians being used and here you're changing it?

I mean answer the question?

Was colossians used in antioch, rome, ephesus, phillipi, thessalonia or what? and before the epistle was written what was used? to preach the gospel? the gospel wasn't preached in the Old Testament, it spoke of the gospel to come, but we don't see the baptism of Jesus in it and the sayings of Jesus in it, so how did these churches know the sayings of Jesus before the gospel and the epistles were written?

It wasnt luke they were reading . . . but Isaiah.

But you were quoting Luke and that is scripture, if the event was being talked about, then that means that the scripture you quoted wasn't used then, so how did they know that those things happened? don't forget Luke was not one of the twelve.

Where is it in the bible?

The Gospel of Matthew, the Gospel or Mark, the Gospel of Luke, the Gospel of John oh yes and revelations.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews not to the gentiles so he could not have been bishop of Rome. Read the bible, it is clearly stated!

Um, well here's what Peter said. Acts of the Apostles 15: 7 "
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe"

I believe it was a gentile that had already converted that went to Paul. I see you like red so I chose it just for you, hope you enjoy.

Also don't forget that the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven was given by Jesus to no one but Peter, he alone were the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven given:

Matthew 16:17-20
17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ

Yeah, Peter was the only one that received the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and up until that point his name was Simon son of Jonah, when Jesus gave him the name Peter meaning rock, he meant rock, and upon that rock he would build his church.
Jesus wasn't playing so why are you?

That reminds me of another baseless catholic tradition. Galatians 2: 7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

See above.

8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

We see here clearly that Paul is stating that he was sent with the gospel to the gentiles and Peter to the circumcision (the jews). Romans were gentiles.

So what's your explanation for the other verse. Did Peter have slip of the tongue, did he mean the jews instead of the gentiles?

How could Peter have been Bishop of Rome (Paul's superior) and NOT ONCE did Paul ever reference him in ALL the his letters from Rome? How could Peter have been Bishop of Rome when Paul himself was a prisoner of Rome?

Maybe you need to be schooled on how Peter ended up being the Bishop of Rome. He was not always in Rome but he moved there and that was where he became headquartered, infact it was there he was crucified upside down and it is on his burial site that the Vatican sits.

Paul did reference Peter, you might want to check your Bible again, and um you do know that even though Peter was a Bishop of Rome he didn't have Roman authority, which meant that his authority was with the church and the church alone, and well we know that the church was highly executed. Paul was also killed in Rome. Do you think a Bishop has the power to get people out of jail? Is that why you're surprised? Paul was a prisoner of a lot of places hun.
Did Jesus give them wordly authority or spiritual authority.
When you stop thinking in a wordly way, you will start understanding the Bible.

the thief on the cross never even bothered about salvation until a few minutes to his death . . . Yet he found Christ and made heaven.

ah thank you for reminding me, which Bible did he use?
Se it must be found in the Bible for it to be true eh, which one did this thief use na?

Salvation is of the heart . . . it is not the volume of "sacred tradition" you practice or the number of bible verses you know. 2 timothy tells us something important . . . the bible is for our guide, our reproof, our examples . . . it is not a ticket to heaven.

Ahn ahn so you can actually reason, so why are you still going by Bible alone, quoting left and right and requiring scripture? If it is not your ticket to heaven.
My dear, the Bible is sacred tradition. It was the message that was passed down and that makes up the Bible, and St. Paul did say that we should hang on to the things taught us:

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, guard that which has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge.
21 By professing it some people have deviated from the faith.

Do you know what the Church has done? We have guarded that which has been entrusted to us. That is why yu and your so-called knowledge will never understand.

I believe a pious thing that the early church did was pay attention to the teaching of the apostle, at that time they weren't preaching out of a book, they were handing things down and telling people the words of Jesus that were not yet written in the book, so no one could say "show me where it is in the Bible"
Here's their piety:
Acts of the apostles 2:42
42 And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Yeah it wasn't solely by scripture.

When you ask . . . what bible was used to get them to church . . . i shake my head in wonder. Did Christ need the book of the prophets to convince Peter, James and John?

But you're the one saying show me scripture, show me scripture, since sacred tradition is nothing abi, so show me what it is the early christians used, abi didn't they go by scripture alone.

You're the one that's saying if it is not in te Bible you won't believe, so why are you finding it hard to answer the question. Oya the tables have turned, DAVIDYLAN [size=13pt]SHOW ME SCRIPTURE[/size]

As is ur style, you try hard to change the subject to avoid what you feel uncomfortable discussion . . . here are the two questions now -

You don fear? you fear say you no get answer? see fear o? David you no fit answer question? Since I am the one that doesn't want to stay on topic, and since you're the one that wants to stay on topic, and you're the one that is comfortable with the discussion, why don't you comfortably answer the question? lead by answering the questions?

where is the use of the rosary advocated in your bible?

read the verses on prayer and you will see it.

Was Peter the bishop of rome?

he wasn't only the bishop of rome, he was the one that received the keys to the kingdom of heaven, the only one. Jesus himself entrusted it to him. Can you prove that Jesus didn't give him the keys to the kingdom of heaven?

How body, to answer your question honestly there is no where in the bible where it was stated to pray the rosary. But does it make it wrong? There are other things done in the church today that are not in the bible, I don't know if you practice it, like christmas for instance. Do you believe in ghosts?
Just a thought oh make una carry on

The New Testament was not used by Jesus, or the apostles, there wasno such thing as the New Testament, the letters were not written to be scripture, they were declared so by the Church, those were the ones that were compatible with the teaching of the Church, the ones that were not in line with what was taught by the apostles were not included and yet David wants to have a show down on it, he should go and get his own abeg.
He lives and swears by the New Testament, he should show me where it says by scripture alone. And then he should show me which scripture it is that Jesus used and the early churched used to preach the gospel of Christ. He shouldn't use the one declared scripture by the Church he should go and look for the one that was used then, this one that is used today talks about the actions of the church, how did the church know how to act if they didn't have the scripture?
David needs to answer that question, so no I am not taking it easy on him.

Notice how he became humble. Only when he can't answer questions, he ccools down, person don pour ice water for e back, he knows what's up now.

Re-read the two verses you quoted, where in them did it talk of the 24 elders offering up your prayers? Maybe i'm blind but please kindly mark it in bold so i can read it again. And just in case you come back misquoting Rev 5:8 . . . please make sure you duly understand what was there

You are indeed blind: Revelations 5:8 When he tok it, he four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayer of the holy ones

what were the bowls filled with again? oh yeah that's right incense that are the prayers of the holy ones.

You know what I have to go to a meeting. I will be back.

That is Satan in disguise period.
The dead have appeared to the living only 2ce in the bible . . .
1. Saul and the witch of Endor
2. the transfiguration

And I will repeat:

Well your birth is not recorded in the Bible, so I guess by your reasoning you didn't occur either. St. John in the gospel already said that there are many things that Jesus did and said that were not recorded in the Bible, so I guess we know that everything is not in the Bible.

Does everything have to be recorded in the Bible for it to be true?

But idupaul called it a doctrine and we know it is sacred catholic tradition . . . didnt st mary tell st dominic?

I see you're going to stick to your lie.
Idupaul did not call it a Catholic doctrine, he did not say that the rosary is a catholic doctrine, you assumed he was talking aout the rosary, but you know very well that you have no respect for the Catholic Church, so there is a general concensus that you have no respect for the Catholic doctrine.

I tell ya you remind me of Sarah Palin, when a question is asked of her, she gives the same rehearsed answer. You have not answered one question.

lying wont help you in this case.

Oh you and I know full well that you hold it in your belief that the Old Testament is null and void, you have had arguments on this board to prove that the Old Testament was done away with, you even went so far as to say that the Sabbath law had been nullified.
Hun everybody knows you're trademark. This is you: You hate Catholics, you do not consider Catholics christians, you think the Old Testament is done away with, you think the name of God was never revealed in the Old Testament, you don't know what christian virtues are, you are the self-appointed pastor of nairaland (Pastor 419), there's so much more here, does any of them ring a bell to you? or do i need to hit the search button for your posts on the Old Testament?

I don't know everything about christianity, perhaps that's why i can't find the use of rosaries or the veneration of Mary in my bible. should in case you find it please show me so i may learn at your feet o learned one.

Wow, are you sure you don't know anything about christianity? You seem to be perfect in it, that's why ou've never been wrong o, you didn't know, you are the one that put the Bible together na, so you're the one that knows how it's supposed to be interpreted abi. You didn't know you knew everything about Christianity? na today?
As for the rosaries, please abeg tell me where christmas is, or easter or tell me where it says that the rosary cannot be used to keep count when praying?
As for the veneration of Mary? The angel did it best when he said "Hail, full of grace" that is the best veneration of Mary, then it was followed by Elizabeth.

uh oh . . . i thot it was st mary's appearance to st dominic, how foolish of me.

Finally you realise your foolishness.

where have the dead appeared to the living in your bible?

Hahaha you're so funny, you just like to shoot yourself in the foot don't you?
Isn't it you that said this:

The dead have appeared to the living only 2ce in the bible . . .
1. Saul and the witch of Endor
2. the transfiguration.

I gave you already answered yourself.

Afraid others are seeing through ur tissue of heresy? please help us here, no point going the muslim route of "i suggest you research".

You can research anti-catholic websites but you can't research catholic websites? those who can go to evil places but can't go to good places, i believe the name for them is demon?

the rosary is a prayer, no we only use it to count prayer, it is a doctrine, it is a form of prayer . . . which is it? and where is this in the bible?

Where is your prayer in the Bible?

No one said that at all, its ur usual style of lying to avoid the issue. Prayer is a form of communication with God . . . the way i pray is not the same way Paul prayed and all are answered by God. Heard the publican's prayer in the bible? Heard the prayer of the thief on the cross? Are they the same with the Lord's prayer? But all 3 were answered no?

So sorry your attempt to lie here wont wash. We didnt ask you that only 30 prayers shld be said, we simply ask - where is the use of the rosary advocated in your bible?

Are you even sure your not confusing yourself, which one are you against? the rosary prayer or prayer in general? if you say the prayer the prayer that you use is not the same way paul prayed then why does my prayer have to be the same as yours?

Maybe you missed it but the rosary prayer includes the Lord's prayer, now are you going to tell me that too is wrong. Oga trying to find the rosary prayer wrong in the Bible is finding the scripture wrong, because the rosary is a mediation on the gospel. So you better find a way to come to terms with that if you're going to be screaming Bible.


You still haven't answered my questions. Answer them.

Who prays Ps 23? did anyone bring that up here? Are you mistakenly reading another forum?

Answer the question and stop dodging.
Hun I was a protestant before I became a Catholic, if there is a prayer that everyone knew other than the Lord's prayer it was psalm 23 "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want, " now finish it. You know very well that yo've learned it, and have recited it many many times, now tell me are you doing something wrong?

Ps 1 asks us to meditate IN THE SCRIPTURES.

Ok so why aren't you meditating on the rosary prayers?

here is the question again, perchance you all missed it - where is the use of the rosary advocated in your bible?

Where is the use of ps 23 or ps 1 advocated in the Bible?

And funny enough the only prayer that works all the time, money back guarantee

You know, David needs it.

You de try for Christian history, would av been lovely if You were catholic.

For one to be Catholic one has to be open to reason and learning and listening, David is lost in those areas. Don't you know, he knows everything, including that there are no longer 10 commandments but 9. Yup that's right according to David the Sabbath commadment is no longer applicable, why? because Jesus was talking to the Jews and not the gentiles. that is so laughable
I tell you this man lacks reasoning.

Oh yeah he also thinks the christian virtues don't exist and that the apostles didn't teach them. ahahahahaha, i get entertained by him all the time. sometimes i come here just to pull his leg and get entertainment, what can i say, i get bored and he's easy bait.

Jesus Christ, the jewish prophets, the disciples and the early christians didnt need the approval of a pope to pen those words . . .

oo um just want to point out, Jesus Christ didn't pen down any words, and um well the papacy wasn't established in the Old Testament, so that rules out the jewish prophets, the disciples well they were governed by peter the pope.

Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

- Colossians was used to preach in the church

Which Church? Was it read in antioch? Was it read in Rome? I mean this is scripture right so, was it read by everyone?
Was it read in Ephesians? Where is the epistle from Laodicea that was to be read?

And um if they were getting the epistle that means that they were already a church, what was used by them before they became a church? What Bible?

Luke 4:16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

  17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

  18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

  19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

  20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

  21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

- Christ taught from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogues

Um but Luke was not available at that time, why are you using Luke now? It wasn't written, it was scripture, how come it's scripture now?

IduPaul . . . what was your point?

Point is that the Sola Scriptura is not even the Bible. The Scripture you are quoting is talking of a past of its time. If we are able to read of it in the scripture it was not used at the time they became a church. Colossians already were a church, what Bible was used to get them to be a church?

I don't think you understand the question - here it is again - where is the use of the rosary advocated in the bible?

Dude seriously you do know that the rosary is scripture right? If you are advocating against it, you are advocating against the life of christ, including his birth, his resurrection, his death, his preaching, his baptism, and so on.

Check out the gospel, that is the rosary.

It was not written by your bishops. It is not your document but the torah of the jews and the carefully preserved letters and epistles of the disciples, jewish prophets and early christians. You can always commission your own bishops to write ur own epistles . . . put the rosary there if You want.

Actually it was written by our Bishops, I'm sure you remember Peter the Pope who is also the Bishop of Rome? Yeah tey were bishops alright. And well if they weren't Bishiops then Paul would have been wrong in speaking of Bishops.

The rosary is already in it, it is called the Gospel.
You know what show me where in the rosary it is not in the scripture. Because last time I checked the gospels are in the scripture.

I didnt call the rosary a thing of worship, i didnt call it a doctrine (even though it is, besides idupaul called it a doctrine . . . who is fooling who here?) . . . i simply asked a question - where is it encouraged in the bible? How did the early apostles pray without it?

that is the first question put up here . . . i wonder why it is being avoided like a plague. We are not arguing, simply asking that you help us understand its use from the standpoint of the bible.

Um no it's not a doctrine and Idupaul did not call it so, he only stated that you should have respect for Catholic doctrine, it is common knowledge that you hate Catholics, therefore having no respect for us.

Where is it encouraged that you pray Psalm 23? You still haven't answered that question?

that is the first question put up here . . . i wonder why it is being avoided like a plague. We are not arguing, simply asking that you help us understand its use from the standpoint of the bible

if you'd read what I wrote in the first post you would know the standpoint of the bible, unless you're saying it's wrong to meditate on scripture?

IF YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT PEOPLE WRITE INSTEAD OF SKIPPING IT AND LABELING IT WRONG BEFORE READING YOU WOULD KNOW.
if you did make it through school because i am 90% convinced you are illiterate, how did you make it without critical thinking and analytical reasoning?
how did you make it through english cals without reading the book, i bet you had problems and had to argue with the teacher too.

"modern apostles" have turned the house of the Lord into a den of thieves . . . does it make it right?

1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Judas also "spread the message throughout Israel".

Matthew 7:7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Well if the modern day apostles are spreading anything other than the Gospel, then God failed because he said that "the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" he was talking about his church.

Is it the will of the Father to use a rosary?

Oh yes, I am sure of it. He wouldn't have been working miracles through the prayer if it wasn't his will. It's also his will that we learn Christian virtues, oh yes that's right you don't know what those are, we get that from the rosary, we see Jesus and Mary applied it in their lives, so we also attempt to apply these virtues in our life. But you don't even know what the virtues are.

you havent shown me it is the wrong road in the first place. Merely repeating a falsehood 100x does not make it right. Here is the question again . . .

where is the use of the rosary advocated in the bible?

Where is psalm 23 advocated for in the bible? is there a verse that says you should pray it?

About the bible, you don't get it. It was APPROVED by Catholic bishops. It is OUR document. Go and create YOUR OWN document.

I don't think they understand that, I think they believe that the Bible is a book that fell from heaven like manna. You know it was compiled and then dropped on earth.

They don't realise it took centuries for Bishops of the Catholic church, oh and they were called Catholic by that time, who looked through the documents and got rid of the ones that were not in line with the teachings of te apostles, so if what is being taught today is what was taught back then, then I wonder wouldn't the Bible support it?

Instead we get silly little tarts that come and fail to interpret the Bible, especially certain verses, instead they run and quote the one verse they know.

1. the dead cannot intercede for the living.
2. the bible is abundantly clear, Christ is the intercessor for the church

The Bible is also very clear on the twelve elders offering up our prayers.

Revelations 4:4 Surrounding the throne I saw twenty-four other thrones on which twenty-four elders sat, dressed in white garments and with gold crowns on their heads.

Revelations 5:8 When he tok it, he four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayer of the holy ones.

The 24 elders are offering up our prayers. Christ is not the only intercessor, he is the only mediator. Stop forgetting that we are asked to interceed on behalf of each other.

Stop having deliberate amnesia.

That is Satan in disguise period.
The dead have appeared to the living only 2ce in the bible . . .
1. Saul and the witch of Endor
2. the transfiguration.

Well since your birth is not recorded in the Bible, I guess it didn't occur.
Don't be idiotic, we all know that everything was not recorded in the Bible. St. John lets us know that there were things that Chrsit did that did not occur in the Bible, we know the Bible doesn't hold all the accounts of history. It does however tell us enough, and based on sacred tradition, the Bible and what has been handed down to us from the apostles we know how to properly interpret the Bible and we know the practices which were handed down to us. One more time, the practices of the Church have not changed for 2000 years, so you can bang your head on the wall and rebuke all you want, you will only be attempting to rebuke God.

The rosary is not a practice of the Church it is a form of prayer and you can have several form of prayers if you want, but if you seriously do not know anything about the Catholic faith don't come in here and start making stupid little insinuations.
If you have a problem with us fine, but please keep your opinion to yourself, a man who thinks that there are only 9 commandments is not worthy to address anyting concerning God.

Ecclessiates 9 tells us the dead have no more to do with anything under the sun forever! Either the bible is right and you are wrong or you are right and the bible is wrong . . . both cannot be right at the same time

You are so funny, the same person that considers the Old Testament null and void is quoting from it, what happened to it being null and void?

Dude when you learn what Christianity is, come back and have a conversation until please refrain from addressing any of my topics or posts, because you are not worth anyone's time.

By the way there are things called Christian virtues, you might want to open your Bible and stop letting the words go over your head.

Another way of asking the same question as davidylan is this:

         "WHEN was the Rosary rite first initiated, and by WHO?"

Perhaps when that question is answered in simple terms, then it becomes easy enough to understand whether or not it has anything to do with the early Christians.

What David fails to highlight above since his main work in life is to be deceitful is that since the early church the Christians, particularly those who were monks or monk like were using beads to count and recite the psalms, that is the first time the rosary was used. Over the years it moved from being the psalms alone to include the gospels.

When Mary appeared to St. Dominic the rosary was already being used, she only advocated for it. And it looked nothing like we see it today. Over the centuries the design has changed to make it easier for us to keep counting.

If you actually sincerely want to know, I suggest you research, you have the internet right? certainly you're here, so run along and research and please stop infesting threads with your lies.

Let those who wish to learn, learn.

I would rather respect God than man. I have not "disrespected" catholic doctrine, rather i have merely opened the bible to show that Jesus Christ did not teach us that "doctrine". If you think He did then show me in the bible.

That way only can you command my "respect".

Then why aren't you respecting God?

was about asking d same question

Forgive me but I thougth the Bible asked us to pray. And if we need to only use the prayer that was taught to us, then if you've ever said any prayer that is not the Lord's prayer then you have done something wrong.

The rosary is a prayer, to be precise it's a meditative prayer, you meditate on the Gospel, the Hail Mary, which is the greeting by the angel unless you think that's not true, helps us to focus on our meditation. And if you read anything above you would know what it really is.

Why do people ask idiotic questions? Where does it say in the Bible that only a particular prayer should be said?

Can i pick up a bag of stones and repeat exactly the same things above? A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump . . .

YES!!! You can use your fingers if you want to, the only reason we use the beads is to keep count. The beads are not being worshipped, we use it to count

I have said the prayer many times without my rosary beads on hand, it is difficult because it's a lot, but you can do it.

The rosary is not a doctrine ok. It is a form of prayer, just as you have the Psalm 23, and you have yuor private prayers or prayer books. It is just the same thing.

@lady
How body na, what I meant was that maybe the problem is that you do not all have the same definitions of the terms thats why the thread keeps going on and on so why don't you guys see if you can agree on the definition then you can proceed to apply it with the bible.

Oh I know. I was only stating that the definitions had already been provided her even in this thread. But would one say to someone who insists on being deceitful.

She knows very well what worship is, if she was looking for the truth or to have a reasonable discussion she would have answered my questions, even about the term worship.

But you know deceitful people when they skip through things (which she already admitted doing)

There is a pattern for these people, they ask and ask and ask, and when they are asked back, they give no response.
Notice above that I have asked David questions and he simply ignores them and goes on to make a statement and quotes the Bible. They use the Bible for their own gain, I asked a question instead I get the Bible said. I wander if they were in class and the teacher asked them what is 2+2 they would say 'the bible this and you are deceitful'

They love the Bible so much that they can't interpret it, ask them to interpret certain verses in the Bible they will only show you other Bible verses and then call you evil and devil worshipper. Funny enough when the Israelites could not understand what Jesus said they resulted to saying he is working for the devil. No wonder they will say the same thing about his Church.

those that do wrong are the biggest screamers.

I wonder who they think they're ridiculing.

But anyway, I gotta run. I have a meeting to get to. Talk to you later.

uuuhhhhhh!
pray you to share your testimony lady! we could just pretend that 'em invaders don't exist!

Lol, ok. But it's not all good, I am sad at a part, something bad happened for something good to come.

Well my parents got divorced when I was 10 months old, daddy was a rolling stone and step mum consulted diabolical powers to keep my dad.
Dad kicked myself and mum out with nothing, not even our clothes.

Years later I got reuinted with dad and family, but step mum did not want me there. So she treated me horribly, I would never wish it on a child or an adult, no one.

Well I finally ran away back to my mum, and the next year we left for the U.S. years later, my lil bro from dad's sad got in touch with me, and I didn't really want to have anything to do with him because I was angry at his mother for what she did to me, so I lashed out at him and told him I am not in his family.

He kept my number though.

Well I also didn't realise that my step mum had forced my dad to drive away my older step sister, also from another woman, daddy was really a rolling stone. lol.

She refused to let my dad educate her or take care of her, she had to beg for all she got, finally some famiy members decide to help her get through school.

Step mum cut dad off from all family members, ran dad's business into the ground. Dad almost died and she did nothing.

Well this month I got a call from my older sister and she informed me that step mum is dead. She pleaded on behalf of all family members for me to forgive.
I spoke to my dad for the first time in 12 years. I spoke to my baby sister for the first time in 12 years. I spoke to my uncles, aunts, and cousins for the first time.
It was weird because they were all apologising and trying to get in touch with my mum to apologise to her, and whenever I asked about what happened to my step mum, they would change the subject. They didn't want to discuss her death with me. They just ask me to forgive.

So I have been praying for her soul, and asking God to have mercy on her because I have forgiven her, and I pray that he does.

So I inform my mum and gave her my uncles' number. So she calls them adn they apologise to her for the way they treated her (I was sick with measles and they refused to let her take me to the hospital because they needed the money for food).
My aunt broke the silence saying that my step mum has been evil and that she's better off dead (God have mercy on my aunt), she was telling us of all the evil things my step mum did.
She finally told my mum of how she died. She was ill for 3 years from whatever it is she did 23 years ago to get my dad. My mum refuses to tell me the horrid details. But it was really really horrible.

Well it is unfortunate that she died, and I was hoping the family would reuinte with her still a part of it, I was loking forward to reuniting with them in Nigeria, but we're finally united now.

I have the other half of my family now, and I think my sis will be coming for my graduation this december YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please pray for the repose of my step mum.

I HAVE MY FAMILY BACK!!!!!!!!!!

of course they'D challenge anything just to conceal their inadequacies.

Yup.

LOL indeed!

here is a link to a preview of the book

Thanks I will look it up.

I am so happy today. I have a testimony and I'm not sure I can share it here, you know we have invaders. But the Lord is truly great, and I love him all the more everyday.

hey lady,
i feel you quite alright on that matter! the thing is, i don't even know where to begin in trying to challenge these people who go about twisting the church's teachings . . .
they have simply chosen to be blind to the truth so i would rather not even try to challenge or convince them . . . i mean! what's the point!

You got it. How r You?

which is more important to you? The "church's teachings" or the "Lord's teachings"?

What is the difference between both of them? The Church is the body of Christ, Christ is the Lord so it's the same thing. It is he only Church founded by Christ.
Abi is that what's paining you? That you can't compete with the body of Christ? News for you, no one can.

Of course. The rosary is unbiblical, Mariolatry is unbiblical, praying to Mary as an intercessor is unbiblical, Mary apparitions are clearly satanic . . . its up to you to OPEN YOUR BIBLE and show me otherwise.

Open your Bible and show me that you should only go by your Bible. In case you missed it, the Bible is sacred tradition in itself. So you got a problem with the Bible now?
People that deny the sacred tradition also deny the Bible and they don't even know it, they seem to lack the comprehension of the mysteries of Christ.

Look we have dealt with you and your kind, we would like to fellowship in peace, now please leave.


Lin thanks for that it was really beautiful.
I no understand wetin you come talk again o, abeg translate.

this are serious issues . . . its a shame that you seem extremely reluctant to approach this from the standpoint of the bible. It is a lot more than pointing fingers . . . WHAT DID PAUL REALLY SAY AND DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT?

oga ph.d. check the english language and then consult a psychologist before you start making assumptions as to what one is reluctant and not reluctant to do.

I know what Paul said, but I am trying to understand how the body of Christ is separate from the Love of God. It is YOU I am tryin to understand.

Paul said we cannot be separated from God, not even by death, if Jesus is God and we are his body, how then are we separated from each other?

I seriously thought that it was sin that could separate us. I seriously thought that Paul also said that we are one in the body of Christ.

Abeg tell me, when a person dies do they get separated from the body of Christ, are they no longer in Christ?
Does Christ have more than one body?
If the only thing that can separate us from Christ is sin, and these people die in Christ, how then are they separated?
Do the dead go sinning?

Please I want to understand master preacher. Teach me.

Even if I start quoting scripture to you, you won't understand, what good will it do when I know you don't understand, I am trying a new approach, and I am hoping that it wil work, it's called reason, hopefully it will work for you.

The body of Christ is not the same as the Love of God. wow! I mean must you cloak your lies with deliberate and false sarcasm?

Oh so Christ's body is separate from God's love. Oga please you are the one that holds the truth since I am the liar, so can you knidly break it down for me a commoner to understand, how it is that Christ is not Love of God.

I am ready to learn from you.

I was quoting Ecclesiastes 9. If that is not in your bible please say so.

Ecclesiastes 9 is the only verse in the Bible that speaks of the dead or those not on earth?
Psalm 103: 20-21 is asking those in heaven to bless the Lord and pray with us.
I remember Jesus Christ telling his disciples that they themselves will sit on the thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, adn I remember St. John in Revelations telling us that there are 24 elders representing the Old and New Israel, the sons of Jacob (ISrael) and the apostles. So are they not in heaven? And are they separated from the body of Christ? Are they separated from Christ?
Hmm pastor preacher, you may want to read the bible well and ask the Spirit for guidance to be able to understand the past and the present and the future, instead of being too confident that you understand the bible that you come here and spew your own personal interpretation. The verses in the Bible have one meaning not several conradictory one o.
So many men of God should not contradict each other o. They should all know God is not contradictory o.

Jesus Christ IS GOD! He can converse with the dead because He created them but the bible is quite clear . . . YOU AS A MORTAL CANNOT CONVERSE WITH THE DEAD! ECCLESIASTES 9 IS MORE THAN ABUNDANTLY CLEAR!

Those in heaven are not dead, Christ promised us this thing called eternal life, you may have heard of it. We are no longer dead, but living, we may die in the flesh but we live with Christ.
I am looking forward to living with Christ.
You may look forward to dying but me I am looking forward to living o.

Is that an excuse for the dead to appear to you? show me in the bible.

Who said anything about the dead appearing? We've only stated that they hear our prayers, because they are with God (well at least some of them) and then we on earth pray for those in purgatory.
They don't have to appear to hear our prayers, she stated as an example the appearance of Moses and Elijah to Jesus to inform you that the dead can be in heaven.

@~Lady~

You seem to know your stuff. I commend you, keep up the work.

Thanks ma'am same thing to you too.
I tell you God gave us a brain so that we can reason, that even though things are not in print we can be able to analyze and understand things.

No people want it in black and white, as if the bible was ever written to be in black and white. These same people that are here doing the show me in "black and white" are the ones telling muslims and atheists that it can't only be in "black and white"
Hypocrisy of it all.

Anyway dear, I am not one to just take man's word for it, so I feel very sorry for those Catholics she has led astray, they had everything in the Church, the teachings of Christ have not changed for 2000 years, even though plenty others have challenged it and have failed and have led themselves to utter confusion. The Church still stands, because Christ already said, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

So they can stay here twisting things, the Church will stand till the end time. They might just want to focus on God instead of on what others are doing to praise God.

It's not by force to be in the Catholic Church o, people don't understand. But sha the devil will never rest even, he will always continue to try, and he will definitely use people, most especially those ones who think they know the Bible yet say that Christ nullifyied one of the ten commandments, so now there are only 9 o.

I'm not the one defining the term for Catholics - rather, your authorities are the ones who said: "the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia". Is that not clear enough, abi wetin we dey miss?

We're missing your clarification of worship. Be honest and post the full ways in which worship can be used.

Thanks for that attempt, but sorry - looking up at something is not to be mistaken for HYPERDULIA. And ahem. . . God nowhere said that they looked up to the serpent "for help" - this is your fabu, so please make another believable excuse.

Meanwhile, as defined by your Catholic encyclopedia, HYPERDULIA is "worship paid to her" - so, are you saying that HYPERDULIA was the case with the serpent because it was "worship paid to it?" You claimed hyperdulia for the serpent O. . . so please come back and let us confirm from you that you suppose serpent worship is part of your personal interpretation for what God never said!

So what were they looking up to it for? To see a bird? To see aeroplane? Were their eyes closed? Did they look up to it to die? Please clarify.

Will you please be truthful in what worship is? and stop twisting it to suit you.

Please give the full definition of worship.

I hear - so Jesus Christ was not Saviour at that point, abi? No, I did not accuse you, I'm only asking you. And if He was THE Saviour, how many Saviours do we have in Christianity?

Were they Christians? Was Jesus Christ there at that time? Why weren't they baptized like Christ? Where there two messiahs? One then and one now?
Was Jesus there?

DULIA is defined as "our worship of distinguished servants of God" by Catholic encyclopedia. Now, please show us where anyone ever worshipped man, cherubim, or serpent?

Go to england they do so. Go to their court, you will find plenty there. I believe they're called magistrates. Maybe then you will know what worship is.

(a) Jesus is not a graven image; your "must" is terrifyingly sad, because you're forcing your opinion to make Him such.

John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up (I believe those are Jesus' words)

John 3:34
The multitude answered him: We have heard out of the law, that Christ abideth for ever; and how sayest thou: The Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?

So where is my own opinion in that?

b) NOBODY ever accorded the bronze serpent any "worship" of dulia or hyperdulia.

Then what was he serpent for? Decoration? In the desert?

c) To force this unfortunate musings upon Mary is to add what is not in Scripture for your own prejudices.

I believe the angel led the way for us when he called her "full of grace" and when Elizabeth called her "blessed amongst women" and when she herself said that "all generations shall call me blessed"

I believe she was elevated by the angel and elizabeth and herself, so no one forced anything on her.

Our birth from her is far better than from Eve. Our birth from Eve leaves us under the law but our birth from Mary gives us freedom, her We are co-heirs with her Son who is our brother, therefore she is our mother. What does the Bible say, that we should honour our mother and father.

If you have a problem showing her the honour she deserves, that is entirely your own, but I am not ashamed of it.

Please calmly show HOW I have misrepresented anything here, thank you.

You fail to clarify that there are different types of worship. you are deliberately being deceitful. you state the term 'worship' knowing full well that it can be misunderstood without making an effort to speak the truth about the term.

I've been through that before - please have the patience to see it in the other Catholic thread. Where are the verses for the Rosary, not some mumbled recitation with rubber beads? Who were the Christians in the Bible going about with a bead that you have failed to show us?

So are you saying that angel didn't say Hail full of grace and that Elizabeth didn't greet Mary as blessed are you among women?

I already gave you the verses for the Rosary, if you don't believe it, that's your own. Prove that the greeting of the angel and Elizabeth and the Lord's Prayer are not included in reciting the rosary.
If you want to insinuate that I am not being truthful, then please show that the angel greeting, elizabeth's greeting, the lord's prayer are not included in the rosary, and also show that what we meditate on is anything but scripture.
please i am waiting for you to prove it.
Show us "fully" what the rosary contains. I mean from beginning to end, from the first to the last.

Knock-knock. . . please can you wake up and come back to reality?   My discussions have not spun off that tangent the way you sparked off there. Where is dulia, hyperdulia, and latria for those graven images were the questions I asked O. . . not the baptism, birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry but I thought my response was a direct response to the rosary, or what you don't want people to know that the rosary consists of the scripture, i mean will it kill you if people know the truth?
You were the one that spoke of the rosary. Remember you said something along the line of no scripture for the rosary.
are you trying to push this behind the scenes so no one will see that you are clearly ignorant of a lot of things. i mean that is deceitful

Hehe. . . you meant to say they were "made up" but not in the Bible, kwo?   This is really funny! No wonder we have waited forever for you to post the verses!

Wow, are you saying that the birth of Jesus isn't in the bible, or that his death isn't in there or that his resurrection isn't in there? or that the angel didn't greet Mary, or that elizabeth didn't greet her?
I mean which one of those is not in the bible? or is it that the Lord's prayer isn't in the bible? which one isn't there again?

Eh? Who is advocating that prayer is wrong?    I no fit laff again O!

Um helloo, um YOU ARE THE ONE THAT THINKS THE ROSARY PRAYER IS WRONG, so that would make the answer to this question YOU

No, because we don't pratise Psalm 23 recitation on a number of beads, thank you! Anymore after-thoughts?

Oh so there's a verse that says that if you use beads to keep count of prayers, it's wrong? Please provide tahnks. There's a verse that says yo shouldn't count prayers?
I mean show me.
Because that's what the rosary is used for, it is to keep count, cause you know you can get confused using our fingers to count. and you can get so confused and try to figure out which scripture youre suposed to be meditating on again.

My dear, I thank you for the compliments. We all just wonder that you who shout it often has been most wanting in that very thing.

Lolol, yeah me who answers question, you who beats around the bush when confronted, yup I'm the one found wanting.

Thank you again for the homegirl. I suppose others will point you to where my answers are and help you to read.

First of all what is wrong with "homegirl' are you living in the bush somewhere where it's forbidden to say homie, or homegirl or homeboy,. But um I would really like it if someone can point out to me where you answered my questions. Because your answers of "I have already answered" is not an answer.

Thank you for the compliment again O. . . hehe!   If you can't read, wait and let others show you the answers I have given. Remain blessed.

ALL YA GOTTA DO, IS COPY AND PASTE. If you are truthful in saying you answered, COPY AND PASTE IT.

I'm sorry, ~Lady~, dulia has been given another meaning by you for convenience sake. Please consult the reference I gave you from the Catholic online Encyclopedia and see for yourself.

What different meaning did I give to dulia?

I'm used to such talk, actually. It might have helped if you pointed out how I twisted anything.

Well let's see stating that Catholics worship Mary as we would worship God. I believe that just about covers it.

I've seen enough in yours to skip them and deal with other worries of more particular notice.[/quote

Oh so yo've finally admitted it. And whatever doesn't agree with you is automatically a lie, because you ahappen to hold the truth. Whatever you don't understand must be a lie. Now I see where the problem is, you put too much confidence in yourself.

Bru-ha-ha-ha!! This Lady, I never knew you're so confused!! Please help me here, if you can -- which one are you arguing now:

~ Glory in Israel?
~ Glory of Israel?
~ Glory on Israel?

Okay seriously you need to read the Bible and read it well. They are used in different ways.
There is another instance where Glory of Jerusalem (Isreal) is used and that's in Judith.

~Lady~, just simply check the reference, it saves you such waist and empty brashness. Unless you can show us that it was not "Glory of Israel" but rather "Glory on/in Israel", then the Catholic list will include millions of liars from your accusation alleged against the point.

Maybe you need to learn to read what I write well. Glory on Israel also applies to Christ, and I believe I did show reference to that.
God is not the only one called Glory of Israel.

You are too quick to accuse others, you know; and I offer my many thanks for the compliment. I don't remember saying that the definition of Mariolatry was given by a Catholic website; what I offered was that dulia, hyperdulia, and latria are from Catholic websites.

However, even when we speak of Mariolatry, Catholics perfectly understand what we mean - so what's the problem with that? And yes, if you want to know, I got the meaning as commonly used among religious scholars - such as:

~ The PHRONTISTERY: (scroll down)
Mariolatry - worship of the virgin mother
Mariology - study of the Virgin Mary

~ YourDictionary.com
Mariolatry - veneration of the Virgin Mary, when regarded as carried
to an idolatrous extreme;

~ YourDictionary.com
Mariology - the branch of Christian theology that deals with the Virgin Mary.

Besides, those sites (PHRONTISTERY, YourDictionary.com) are not Protestant sites - they are used by even non-religious people; and when we speak of MARIOLOGY and MARIOLATRY, they all understand what we mean even among Catholics

Woman you must have forgotten that when I said that you do not quote from the Catholic website of mariolatry you stated that all you've gotten is from a catholic website you even posted newadvent from me.
The reason I am asking you to state what is on catholic website and not from any other is because too many people have confused mariolatry for mariology and they are not the same even if some people do not take the time to check it out.

Mariolatry is condemned by the Church and is not used anywhere in the Church, whether it be common term or not, you mislead people when you use it in reference to the Catholic Church. If you would state mariolatry you should also state that it is condemned also, so that people can get the full truth and not the half truth.

It doesn't matter if you and your catholic friends use the term and you need to have them know that it is condemned by the church.

Ever since the confusion of the term "worship" it is dropped by the Church when we use in converstation with others, why? because people are too used to the term used as in one way instead of in the broader term of it.

Just as if I were to say I am gay, I cannot because people do not associate gay with happy anymore, it is now homosexual, even though the proper way of using it is to say happy.

I believe that's where the confusion has been coming from, you associate worship with one way, and not in the full broad sense. I have been trying to avoid you from doing so, that's why I've been consistently telling you there are different forms or levels of it, and it can be used in different ways.

I did not edit or change anything - that is why I quoted them directly because I know you would react the same way panic-stricken Catholics have reacted in the past when I debated them. Please let's be simple in these matters and look at what your authorities have said:


As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).source: Catholic Encyclopedia - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm

There! They called it the "worship", not the revisionist euphemism you have engineered here

That has been the problem, I believe you know that worship is in different forms and they are not equal, but you refuse to be truthful in your responses. Just because it is called worship does not make it rightfully for God. Once again the magistrates are called worship, but not in the form in which you view it.

And I really and strongly believe that you are deliberately trying to be deceitful. You do not address the definition of worship at all, and you know very well what latria, dulia, and hyperdulia are very different, but you refuse to be straightforward with it.

this is very very sad. This is what Paul ACTUALLY SAID!

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Paul ACTUALLY was saying death cannot separate us FROM THE LOVE OF GOD . . . not about separation from each other! How do you hypocrites butcher the bible this badly and think you can get away with it? The bible clearly says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

. . . the dead have no more portion FOR EVER in anything (including we the living) done under the sun! How then can death not separate us from?

Paul said we shld intercede for one another . . . no where did He tell us to intercede either for or on behalf of the dead.

HAHAHA This is just too funny. So when people die are they separated from the body of Christ?
I really want you to 'open' my eyes here.

You LIAR . . . read romans 8, Paul says no such thing. He says death cannot separate us from the LOVE OF GOD not the body of Christ! I am sick of bible twisters who build a theology on falsehood.

Ok so the body of Christ is separate from the Love of God. Oh I got it now. Lol. I got it.

(1) Please give us the verse where the Bible said anyone ever reverred the serpent. Just a verse, thank you.

Numbers 21: 8-9

8And the Lord said to him: Make brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: whosoever being struck shall look on it, shall live. 9 Moses therefore made a brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: which when they that were bitten looked upon, they were healed.

Why were they healed by looking to a serpent ma'am isn't that an image?

(2) When you find us that verse, tell us which of the Catholic terms for "worship" (dulia or hyperdulia) was used in that verse, thank you again.

First of all it is not a "catholic" term for "worship" it is Latin for "worship" and in Latin there are three different terms that are used to show worship, worship of God is different from worship due to man for example, the judges in england are called "Your Worship" are the enlgish now idolaters?

I would really appreciate you answering a question, instead of beating around the bush.

The "worship" used there would be euivalent to "hyperdulia" as in not equal to God.

(3) And when you are done, please show us if HYPERDULIA was used for the serpent the same way that you're making a parallel for Mary-reverence here (remember that the Catholic authorities define that reverence as HYPERDULIA), many thanks.

I believe I answered this above. The serpent was not equal to God, Mary is not equal to God, which is hyperdulia. The Isrealites looked up to the serpent for healing, we look up to Mary for help.

Thank you. Since I offered that you get the same answers from the other thread from the links I posted in the previous page and you're too lazy to go check them out, the simple thing to do is to cease pretending you can't read and instead ask simple questions.

Are you mistaken on my questions? Do you not know what I have been asking? Do you comprehend my questions or do I need to break it down for ya?
Cause last time I checked I have been asking you what is the difference between the image of the man Jesus and the image of another man, and what is the difference between the image of the golden calf and the image of the serpent?
I didn't think those were rocket science questions.

I have answered too many times already: none of them were ever accorded either DULIA, HYPERDULIA, or LATRIA. Since you must always use the same excuse and deny them again, my answers have not changed. When you find the DULIA, HYPERDULIA and LATRIA for the golden calf and bronze serpent, then please let us read it for ourselves, thank you again

No you have not my question. You have not told me what the difference between the image of the calf and the image of the serpent is? All you have done is asked me more questions about dulia, latria, and hyperdulia. I provided you those answers and quoted them again for you because i'm sure you mistakenly skipped it, i even told you i answered it on page 9 on my last post. You however have not answered a single question posed to you.

Now once again I wil give you the answer, the golden calf was worshipped in latria, the bronze in hyperdulia. latria is the equivalent of God, the difference is that they disregarded God and decided to make the calf the supreme being, but with the serpent they did not equate it to God, however when they looked up to the serpent (reverence) they were healed, but they did not disregard God when looking to the serpent, the same is with Mary. We look up to her for help and we ask her assistance, however she is not held in regards to God. God is not pushed aside and Mary is not elevated to his level.

Now if your problem is with the word 'worship', you might want to do some learning on the english language and see that this the definition of worship: For God ----
1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.  

For others --- (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her). For example "Your worship' to the magistrates.

So see there is a difference. Now latin is not the english language and in translation "worship" is the term that closely resembles the meanings of the words in latin. No official church document is written in any language other than latin. After it has been presented to the church it can then be translated into other languages. I think your problem here is language and time relativity. Now i've already told you many times and so have others that in the past, and this was not long agao, worship was a word used for humans too, it just had a different level.

God did not command anyone to worship either of them.

Just as we are not commanded to worship Mary, in your terms.

Because I have answered, provided texts, quoted Catholic references, pointed you to links, offered you direct quotes from your Bishops - and repeated them  in the two threads on the same discussion. Since you cannot read them, I am now pretending you can't see them so that you can continue to fill the pages. So, it's just about time you stop boring people like KarmaMod and quote the verses directly for your Catholic worship of those images.

I am yet to get an answer to the difference between the image calf and the image serpent.

[I don't remember making such a statement, do you mind? If I did, I apologise upfront - but it would be nice for you to quote where I said that Catholics are being asked to worship Mary and let's read the context again.
/quote]

Are you sure you are aware of what you've been doing all along. Everytime you've reference the bishops you are saying that we are asked to worship Mary. You've even said that we do so because of tradition. DO you remember what you say at all?
Anyway, i will look through and find them for you.
But apology accepted, but just so you know, you're still doing it.

As already answered:


"I have answered too many times already: none of them were ever accorded either DULIA, HYPERDULIA, or LATRIA. Since you must always use the same excuse and deny them again, my answers have not changed. When you find the DULIA, HYPERDULIA and LATRIA for the golden calf and bronze serpent, then please let us read it for ourselves, thank you again."

Repeating the same thing is a very good device when you have nothing to say - and inviting me to repeat the same thing ad hominem is not helping your argument.

Sweetheart, your only answer has been "I have answered" now how can that be your answer?

You can easily answer by saying, no they were not images or yes they were images, and then elaborate. Plain and simple. These are not rocket science questions, and I think you are smart enough to even answer those.

Okay, again let me pretend ignorance for your sake - "pretend", I said. . . because you are only beginning to make for a good laugh for these panic-attacks:


"I have answered too many times already: none of them were ever accorded either DULIA, HYPERDULIA, or LATRIA. Since you must always use the same excuse and deny them again, my answers have not changed. When you find the DULIA, HYPERDULIA and LATRIA for the golden calf and bronze serpent, then please let us read it for ourselves, thank you again."

Repeating the same thing is a very good device when you have nothing to say - and inviting me to repeat the same thing ad hominem is not helping your argument.

Lololol, okay try saying ' one was ------, and the other was ------' I mean that is how you try to explain the difference.

Again O. . let me repeat for your sake!  
~~  "God did not command anyone to worship either of them."

And where are the Catholics commanded to worship Mary in place of God or equivalent to God? (Now I know this isn't rocket science so you should be able to answer these question)

Well it's been a couple of people who have asked about the rosary prayer so I will post it up for them to see what it actually is.

The rosary prayer begins with the sing of the cross.
And then on the first big bead, the Our Father is said

The Lord's Prayer:
Our Father, whom art in haven
hallowed be thy name
they kingdom come
they will be done on earth
as it is in heaven
give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us
and lead us not into temptation
bu deliver us from all evil.

Then on the next three smaller beads the Hail Mary is said for the virtues of faith, hope, and charity (love). The Hail Mary prayer is the greeting of the angel Gabriel and Elizabeth in the Bible, see Luke 1:28 and 42 and the rest of it is asking her to pray for us.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Followed by the doxology: Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The Fatima prayer may also be said too after the Glory be: O my Jesus forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.

Fatima is the place in Portugal that Mary appeared to the three little shepherd children she told them to pray the rosary and she told them to add the Fatima prayer to it.

Then on the next big bead you recite the first mystery of the day, meditate on the scripture for that mystery, in doing the meditation you place yourself in the scene, and then you apply the fruit (virtue) of that event to your life. Below I will indicate which mysteries go with which day and what the fruits are along with the scripture reference for you to meditate on.

On Mondays and Saturdays The Joyful Mysteries are prayed.

1) The Annunciation, this is where the angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she would conceive. The virtue here is humility Luke 1:30-31.
Mary allowed God's will in her life when she humbly said yes to him, we to are t say yes to God and allow his will to be done in our life.

2) The visitation, this is where Mary visits Elizabeth, and Elizabeth calls her blessed. Luke 1:41-42, the virtue here is Charity.

Meditation: When Mary learned of Elizabeth's pregnancy, she went in haste tovisit her, to help her, and to encourage her. Mary forgot her own troubles in order to help another. The Lord in turn confirmed to Mary through Elizabeth that "what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled." (Luke 1:45)

Mary thus teaches us that even in the womb Jesus came not to be served, but to serve. This mystery proves forever that life begins at conception, since in the womb the unborn John recognized his newly conceived cousin Jesus!

Mary and Elizabeth cared for one another. do I put my family and friends in first place? do i take a sincere interest in them? mary teaches us to reach out and care for everyone who comes into our lives.

3) The birth of Jesus, the fruit here is Love of God or for the spirit of poverty. Luke 2:6-7

Meditation: After nine months of waiting and three days of journeying, Joseph and Mary finally shelter in a little cave carved out of the Bethlehem hills. On this oly night the Son of God came quietly into the world to reclaim it for his Father. He came as a child so no one would refuse him. He came in poverty so no one whould feel inferior. He came defenseless so no one would feel threatened.

That night in Bethlehem, Mary and Joseph needed help. How do I respond when someone asks me for help? AM I willing to "go the extra mile?" Mary and Josph allowed Jesus to come to us. God now awais ou "Yes" to allow Him to come to others. May we share his child-like love, His gracious joy, and His gently care with all we meet, remembering that were Christ to be born in a thousand stables it would be of no avail, if He were not born in our hearts.

4) The Presentation of Jesus in the Temple Luke 2:22 the fruit is Obedience

Meditation: In obedience to the Law of Moses, Mary and Joseph presente Jesus to God in the temple. Israel's long wait for the messiah was ended. So to was the waiting of old Simeon, who blessed the child and his parents, having been promised by the Spirit that he should not die until he had seen the Lord's Annointed One. He prayed, "Now, Master, yu may let you servant go/ in peace, according to your word,/ for my eyes have seen your salvation, " (Lue 2:29-30

Anna a faithful widow, had also prayed and fasted much for this day, and she rejoiced in it.

As Orthodox Jews, Mary and Joseph obeyed the Law of God. m I willing to obey God, to follo His Commandments in Scripture and in the teaching of the Church, even when it takes great courage?

5) The Finding in the Temple Luke 2:46 the fruit here is zeal or piety.

Meditation: On the way home from the Passover Feast in Jerusalem wen Jesus was 12 years old, Mary and Joseph discovered that Jesus was no longer with them. Distraught and frightened, they began looking for him everywhere. As the hours turned into days, their anxiety grew. Then afer three days they found Jesus in the Temple! You can imagine their mixed feelings of relief, joy, and even anger.

We too endure times of sufferring when it seems we have lost Jesus. As our anxiety grows, we cry out, "Where are you, Lord?" This mystery teachs us that God is always in control, and that in time, if we keep looking, we will find Jesus. As His Word declares, "At dusk weeping comes for the night; / but at dawn there is rejoicing." (Psalm 30:6) Mary wil lead the way.

On Tuesdays and Fridays the Sorrowful Mystery is prayed

1) The Agony in the Garden Mark 14:32-33 the fruit here is Sorrow for Sins or For true Contrition/repentance.

Meditation: As his closest friends slept, Jesus endured alone the extreme agony, fear, and distres of this noght of sorrw. Desiring to be spared suc great suffering, Jesus prayed. "Abba, Fathe, all things are possible to you. Take this cup away from me, but not what I wil but what yu will." (Mark 14:36)

Jesus poured out is anguished heart, begging for the strength to endure the Passion and finish the cup. HE placed his full trus and confidence in his Heavenly Father, as he had done throughout his whole life. And in his Father's embrace he found the strength to go on to the end.

Each of us bears affliction in our own lives and we know many who suffer greatly, be it physically, emotionally, or spiritually. When we are betrayed, abandoned, aken for granted, or suffer illnes, depresion, or discouragement, let us turn to Jedu for his consolation and strength.

2) The scourging at the pillar Mark 15:15 the fruit is self-denial or purity

Meditation: After being betrayed, falsely accused, and wrongfully imprisoned, Jesus was brought before Pilate for sentencing. His first punishment was a merciless scourging from the Roman soldiers. In his scourging, Jesus was thinking of you. He offered all his suffering to his Father to save us from a punishment we could not bear, fulfilling the words of the Prophet Isaiah: "Upon him was chastisement that makes us whole,/ by his stripes we were healed." (Isaiah 53:5)

Jesus suffered intense, unbearable pain in his scourgin. How do I respond to pain? Do I complain or give in to self-pity at the first sign of difficulty? or do i seek to bear suffering bravley, oining all my sufferings to those of Christ as a living sacrifice for the sake of others, especially His Body on earth and in Purgatory?

3) Jesus is crowned with thorns Mark 15:16-17 the fruit here is Moral courage

Meditation: The rough Roman soldiers gathered an audience of 600 companions, striped Jesus of his blood-soaked clothing, and threw a scarlet military cloak over his shoulders. Then they wove a crown of spiked thorns and pressed it downon his head, striking him and saying, "All hil, King of the Jews!"

Jesus courageously and silently endured this piercing public humiliation, choosing to love and forgive his aggressors.

Humiliationis difficult to endure, especially when we are 'in the right' Jeus lived what he taught about the last being first. When we are treated unfairly, we need to discern the prudent response. Sometimes we need to set our boundaries and stand for what is right; other times we need to 'turn the other cheek' abd suffer in silence. In all times we need to follow the counsel of St. Peter. "Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

4) Jesus carries the cross- John 19:16-17 the fruit is Patience

Meditation: In total surrender to His Father's Will, Jesus freely accepted he cross and bore it himself through Jerusalem's narrow and strident streets. Panic atacked him as he struggled to find his footing and fell amidst the shuting and jostling crowd. In their faces he saw hate, rage, and disgust. Saddened but resolute, Jesus kept going, toward his final end.

Sometimes it seems our cross is unbearable, and we panic, thinking we will never be able to complete the couse. This mystery teaches us that God will never allow us to be tested beyond our ability to endure. He will always make a wy. As Jesus fell under the agonizing weight of the cross, his Father sent Siomn of Cyrene to help him carry it.

5) Jesus dies on the cross- Mark 15:24 the fruit is final perseverance

Meditation: And so it ended. After a brief life of 33 years, Jesus was betrayed, arested, tried, conviced, imprisoned, condemned, scourged, crowned with thorns, forced to carry his cross, stripped, nailed, and hung to ie, all within 24 hours.

The Good Shepherd went to this extent to rescue His lost shep, to reopen the fates of heaven and give to us all a second chance at Paradise. Jesus thirsts for us to be with Him, reunited with His Father inthe Kingdom for all eternity.

Jesus teaches us through his obedience on the cross to always please the Father. We too will die someday, and prayerful reflection on this fifth Sorrowful Mystey can help prepare us for own passing. We pray that, at the hour of ur death, Mary will be at our side as she was with Jesus.

can yo believe thay even challenged the rosary prayer? i mean do these people do research at all? do they know that the rosary prayer is made up of scripture?

scott hahn in the book "rome sweet home " wrote that non-catholics usually think they hate the catholic church while in reality,
they only hate their perceived notion of the catholic church.

i mean, who can really dislike (not to mention hate) the true catholic church if they open their minds and understand her teachings.

as always, regnare christum volumus!

This is very true. I have been hearing about this Scott Hahn, I need to pick up his books. Okay that's one more to the list. lol

so how is work coming? found something yet?

I wish, it's just really really tough to get a job here. They're firing people instead of hiring, and with the situatution now on wall street, well we're all holding our breaths.
I still haven't been able to work at the place I got employeed, so I am just keeping my trust in God.

I would like to point out that the verse does not say having homosexual feeling is wrong it says the actions are wrong. In essence its ok to have a homosexual orientation but don't practice it. Sounds like the catholics to me.
Cheers.

No it doesn't sound like the catholics to you and you of all people should know better.
The urge of homosexuality is not a sin, but that doesn't mean it should be encouraged. If one willingly allows his or herself to have such urges, then it becomes a sin.
But if the person is fighting it, it is not a sin.
Prayer and constant fasting is encouraged.

I notice that when we're talking about premarital sex, most of us are not religious. Men and boys just want to have sex, girls and women too. Unmarried boys and girls don't care what the bible says, they just want to sleep with each other. "Body no be wood" is their claim, and on Sunday they go back to church to ask for repentance. This practice of fornication doesn't generate much rage when it's discussed; it's as if "everybody understands".

But when the issue of homosexuality comes up, people become very angry and very pious. That is when they start quoting the bible to support their beliefs! The same people who have defended fornication, which is outrightly condemned in the bible, suddenly become righteous warriours! The girls and guys have no qualms about 'enjoying' each other before marriage, but they are ready to quote the same bible to condemn homosexuals.

So I asked myself a question, which of these vices is a more terrible sin and why do you think so? From the point of view of Christians, and from the point of view of Muslims too (I don't know much about islam, so forgive me for not giving a proper introduction from the islamic point of view)!

There are some sins that are greater than the others, mortal sins are greater than venial sins. However, fornication and homosexuality are in the same boat, those two are the same. The problem is that one is done against nature and people are uncomfortable with that, the other is done naturally.
It also ties in with culture and all that, nonetheless both are sins with the same weights.

i'm cool. for a minute there i was upset that pilgrim.1 had been twisting the teachings of the Church and spreading false truths about the Church to other catholics who have now left the faith.

But I realise those who left had a choice, either look to God for an explanation of your faith or look to man and the chose to look to man.

So I'm cool now, I just feel sorry for those who can't be truthful with themselves.

here is what your god did to innocent people. . . . . . . God sends his lions out again to kill a group of people who were new to Samaria. The reason for this atrocity is their lack of worship, even though they were never informed of the proper worship methods (2 Kings 17:24-26). However, this supposedly significant detail didn’t halt God from killing them. He had to have known that he would eventually murder this party, but instead of properly instructing them, God just kills them. There’s not even a miniscule resemblance of justice in the Hebrew god.

In an exploit of inconceivable irrationality, God sends forth two bears to kill forty-two children for making fun of Elisha’s bald head (2 Kings 2:23-24). Why would the omnibenevolent God feel the necessity to have two bears viciously maul little children for acting like…children? This is supposed to be the same “wonderful” and “loving” God. . . . . . He inflicts a number of people with blindness because Elisha asks him to do so (2 Kings 6:18). He causes a seven-year famine without specifying a reason (2 Kings 8:1). God kills Jeroboam because he’s the leader of the enemies (2 Chronicles 13:20). He kills Nabal without specifying a reason, but it’s probably because David desires his wife and other belongings (1 Samuel 25:38). God sends an angel to kill 185,000 men in an Assyrian camp because they’re enemies of his people (2 Kings 19:31-35). He plagues Azariah, a man labeled as a good King, with leprosy for the remainder of his life because he allows people to burn incense in a location displeasing to God (2 Kings 15:1-5). This is another great example of an overbearing punishment for breaking an asinine law. Some of our fellow humans were obviously destined to meet death early in life without any chance of redemption in God’s eyes.

now what is the difference between the biblical god of the old testament and mohammed/allah? the answer is NIL. . . . . . they are both tribal/ethnic, manovalent, vindictive, angry and spiteful. . . . . . . thank god the hebrew god moved with humanity and changed from his evil ways and modus operendi

maybe you should learn to start reading things in the full context instead of picking up several verses, what is the connection with the people that settled in samria to the King of Assyria and what did the King of Assyria do to the Israelites.

No doubt God in the past had to show his might and valor and those who were against his people he dealt with, just as he would deal with those who are against his children.
Plain and simple, but please realise that the Old Testament is a history book and things must have taken place in the past in order for things in the future to happen.

The Israelites had always been oppressed, and they too were severely punished for their crimes against God.
You also have to know that the difference between then and now is that Christ came to set things in the order it was always meant to be. So instead of Israel alone being in the covenant with God and always having his protection, all those who accept him and enter into his covenant are also protected by him.