₦airaland Forum

Miss, sometimes one wonders if you do comprehend the things you read or you're just so resistant to the truth.

Now please read that catechism and try so hard not to be a hypocrite about it. Note the highlights -

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Together with who? anyone with half a brain shld be able to put two and two together. I rest my case

I now know you lack basic and simple english of the fact that there it is saying that Muslims profess to hold the faith of Abraham and that they also profess that together with Christians they adore the one, merciful God, and mankind's judge on the last day.

So I suggest you go back to school and ask for your money back. Because you lack the basic skill of understanding english.

You may not realise that professing and possessing are different things. Jesus himself let us know that there are those who will profess to be believers in him, but do not actually believe in him or was Jesus lying?

I think it is the latter. . . how can anyone read that quote and twist it so much to try to say it means something else? unbelieveable.

are you serious? do i need to start english language class here? do you really need to go back to school to comprehend english? you know what i didn't want to believe it, but now with you and david as evidence, i do believe that the education system in naija has failed.

define profess for me, please. infact let me give it to you along with that of possess

Profess: to lay claim to, often insincerely; pretend to: He professed extreme regret.
2. to declare openly; announce or affirm; avow or acknowledge: to profess one's satisfaction.
3. to affirm faith in or allegiance to (a religion, God, etc.).

Possess: to have as belonging to one; have as property; own: to possess a house and a car.

Now they may profess or claim that they are worshippers of the same God, but that does not in anyway mean that truly the allah they claim is actually the one we claim. Get it now.

I can easily come to you and profess that I am an accountant, but does that mean that I actually possess an accounting degree? No.

So get your heads out of ridiculing the Church because you can't. Time and time again you will make a fool of yourself as you have already done and shown to everyone how little you know of your own belief or the origins of it.

wow lady you are really incapable of facing truth when its right in front of you. You're desperately trying to twist the quote from your catechism to mean something else. . . its ludicrous. To show you your folly here are your precious Pope's words himself affirming what the poster says, and what anyone who understands english gleans from that quote.

for yor information i'm very aware of what Pope John Paull II said. So because he said that I should leave the Church? If we all go by every word that comes out of the mouth of our pastors, I guess we should all have left Christianity then eh. Whatchu think?

do not for one minute think that i am you or david, i am not. just because i have a problem in my family does not mean that i will abandon my family. that is what it means to be one as Christ spoke of. you as protestants are very much like the prodigal son, you go out looking for greener pastures trying to deny your identity only to fail and feel unhappy, but are too prideful to return home. so you lead yourself to believe that you are right and you know better than everyone and you have convinced yourself right down into obsession.

I will pray for you, that your souls find peace.


You know what I will continue to be a Catholic, because I know that we actually teach what Christ taught. That salvation is open to everyone. That we will not pass judgment on others, especially since we do not know what tomorrow holds.
Let me ask you this. If a muslim tomorrow converts from islam to christianity, should they be turned away because the plan of salvation does not include them?
the plan of salvation includes everyone, everyone can be saved, but it doesn't mean that everyone will be. as long as there's a tomorrow there is a plan of slavation. God's plan does not end.

Be careful not to insult God and his mercy, in your quest to bash Catholics.

No one asked about definition. But if you produce one, and you refused to answer my question about Jesus being worshipped by Pastor AIO, davidylan, ~Lady~, etc, it shows deception from you.

why are you including me in what pastor said. note i am not saying that i am disagreeing or agreeing with him, but would like to know why you would quote me on what i didn't say. thanks.

True religion is given its limits, its boundaries. Trinity is not one of it. Read it again. You must have to study some business law; What ever there is no law against, it is legal. In this case as the definition of true religion only comprises a list of information, the definition is restrected to it. Trinity, again, is not part of it.

you know what you wrote here would actually make some sense if you were actually talking about the topic. you still haven't explained how you figured the trinity in what kunle said.

All of the above, none is in islam. maybe you are reading Judaism or christianity.

then you know nothing of your own religion.

In heaven, unlike the earth, the worship is not like salah, sawm, etc. The earth is a test. The heaven is the accounting for it; where you get ypur rewards.

how can God permit you to sin in heaven? If God doesn't like something he won't prohibit it and then turn around and say that he likes it.
So the question still remains, will you be allowed to murder in heaven, lie in heaven, fornicate in heaven, or what?

Sex is a sin? Well if alcohol is a sin, a lot of catholic are committing it right here on earth. I will wait till heaven, after i have been admitted to paradise to get into my own drinking

I am only commenting on the sins in islam, don't bring it to Christianity. No one says alcohol in Christianity is a sin.

And they were forgiven. Oh, I remember you still carry the residue of their sins. I on the other hand don't.

oh I am soo glad you brought this up.

1. If God forgave adam and eve why did he drive them out of the garden.?
why does the same story in the hadith have adam bearing responsibility of humanity's exile from paradise. "allah's apostle said 'adam and moses met, and moses said to adam "you are the one who made people miserable and turned them out of paradise.'"

why would you forgive and still punish, i guess that leaves you with little hope that even after you sin and you're forgiven, you will still go to hell. so what's the point?

2. adam and eve were nked after they sinned. they realised their unclothedness and covered it. but if allah had forgiven adam, why did he still feel guilty?

once forgiven adam and eve should have been able to walk in the complet innocence they had before the fall. but the quran shows that mankind was not restored to innocence after the fall of adam and eve, once again leading us to believe that the muhammad copied from the christians.

3. muhammad taught that "every human is a sinner by nature, and the best among the sinners are those who repent." if every human being is a sinner by nature, did allah create adam's offspring as sinners or was there some kind of fall?

some verses of the quran seem to denigrae llh himself by stating tht man's imperfection comes from how he was created: "indeed, man was created impatient" sura 70:19. either allah did hasty work in creating man or he instilled a native defect.

why would allah create imperfection? i thought he only created good and not bad, unless allah is bad too or evil or imperfect.

4 why was muhammd a sinner?

i guess the apex and seal of the prophets was a sinner for according to islamic teaching only Mary and Jesus was were exempt from the touch of satan at birth. But why would allah allow satan to touch muhammad and all other human beings? this notion only makes sense in light of the Christian understanding of thefall, muhammad alo said, "satan circulates in the body of adam's offspring as his blood circulates in it. the fact that muslims beliee that Mary and Jeus were born sinless is the most telling indication of all that the quran's teachings about adam and eve, and about sin in general, are garbled representations of Christian teaching.

What about about the other parts that neither the jew nor the christian has anything to do with; eg the body of Fir'awn thrown out by the sea, after drowning. The same body later found, as predicted in the Qur'an, to serve as a sign for later generation?

so which pharoah is it? there were plenty of them you know. provide dna too to let us know that the same one that drowned was found

or maybe we should talk about the other saying in the quran that pharoah repented and worshipped allah: "we took the children of isreal across the sea: pharoah and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. at length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: 'i believe that there is no god except him whom the children of isreal believe in: i am of those who submit to allah in islam.' it was said of him: 'ah now! but a while before, wast thou in rebellion! and thou didst mischief and violence!
this day shall we save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of our signs!" sura 89-92

now i can see where the whole preservation of the body comes from, so it leads me to ask again, does allah forgive and if he does then is his reward a punishment?
if indeed the pharaoh repented then why was he punished for repenting? to be a sign to others? um if so then he wasn't forgiven.
so the question still remains, will you be punished when you're forgiven? is that your reward?

but let me finish here's the other part that contradicts this part.

"moses said, 'thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and i consider thee indeed, o pharaoh to be doomed to destruction! so he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but we did drown him and all who were with him." sura 17:102-103

so why the punishment for conversion?

What I have done is to show by this example that i do not agree with you at all, in your claim of copying Jews ad or Christians. Funny that the jews do not even mention Jesus nor any immaculate conception. While the Christians believe that God overshadowed mary, as when an entity mounts another, we in Islam say that he was only commanded to exist by a simple single word: Be! We are very different from you. Now it is clear when Allah says Jews and christians are friend of each other against you. That is very clear here.

you have only shown how islam is copied from christianity.
um hello where have you been? Christians have been saying it all along that the jews don't believe in Christ as the messiah, os what are you trying to prove that we are telling the truth? are you now on our side?
Christianity has never hidden anything even its flaws. we've always acknoeledged the truth even if we are at fault. we have no need to hide anything.
You yourself don't even make sense, how can you be trying to show how different Christians and Jews are and how they disagree and then move to show them to be alike and friends of each other.
In case you haven't realised Jews and Christians never really got along. especially in the time of muhammad. christians were still being persecuted by jews.
seriosuly are you thinking about what you write?

And i alsways thought you are my friend. I guess i am wrong.

is this supposed to make me feel guilty? because it doesn't. i have plenty of friends and won't lack. don't for one second mistake me to be one of your muslim sisters who are less intelligent than the men and the reason why they sin.
it may work in islam to make women feel inferior and indeed they do and blame themselves for everything that men do, but i am not that. learn it right now, if ever you wish to have any dealings with me, i am not inferior to you.

If I show you where Jesus is driven into the wilderness by the devil, what will you give me? Rather will you become muslim, right away? I want to see you all covered up!

While John preached in the wilderness, Jesus is driven into the wilderness. Of course you are not disputing the 3 temptations from that accursed Devil. Or are you, too?

YES, I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME!!!!
IF YOU CAN'T WILL YOU BECOME A CHRISTIAN? Sorry Christianity comes from the heart and is not by force or by bargain.

Nope I am not disputing it, infact I stand strongly behind it to show that never once did satan have control over Jesus. Never did satan put words into Jesus' mouth as he did with muhammad. satan was subjective to Jesus and his word.

Jesus not having a jinn/genie and Muhammad having a powerless genie/jinn, both do not have any genie/jinn trying to influence them.

now you're lying because you clearly have been trying to prove how the devil temporarily had influence over muhammad and then the angel corrected muhammad and then muhammad didn't allow the devil influence him again, so how now is it that a powerless jinn actually had power over muhammad for a while?

Isn't ironic that even the mother of jesus did not have any genie/jinn. Was she devine, too? I am asking the wrong wman. She is a catholic. She prays to her!

r u asking me to answer a belief of islam? you do know that i am not muslim right?

About worshipping your so called daughters above and acting as intercessors, please let us know where we can find them in the Qur'an or in the hadith. The burden of proof is on the one who makes the allegation.

ok.
now we know that it is not in the quran because you already admitted that muhammad removed it after the jibril intervened does this seem familiar?

Further, you will see that the verses that you deemed Satanic, occurred when the idol worhippers were around the prophet (AS).

You will also realise that the idols were mentioned by names and referred to as flying like the crane birds. The idolators of Makka bowed at the place in the Qur'an where the Muslims bowed as commanded in the Qur'an.

Immediately after that 'satanic verses," Jibril came down to intervene. The issue was again without allowing for compromise.

or maybe this

Temporary over a prophet's tongue

When the christians/Jews claim that King David who was given the Psalm committed adultery and murder of the innocent husband, one should not count either as a sin?

WHAT? WHEN DID CHRISTIANS EVER SAY THAT IT ISN'T A SIN? PROVE IT!!!!

When you say that Solomon worshpped the idol of the land he conquered, even with his unmatched wisdom, that too, is not a sin?

OYA PROVE IT!!!!

I remember one young woman of old on nairaland was saying that Moses was a sinner and God was trying to kill him! What about Aaron for making the golden calf? lol

ONCE AGAIN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!
I thought allah didn't approve of lying. Why are you lying?

NOTICE THAT YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE ISSUE BUT CHANGED THE SUBJECT INTO LIES. I JUST LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU. THAT YOU EVEN WENT SO FAR AS TO LIE!!!! OLABOWALE I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU!!!!!!

Muhammad did not bow.

Yeah i didn't say muhammad i said god, unless muhammad is your god, which i am beginning to believe because he came up with a human book.

He exercise patience. God is always with the patient.

except that wasn't patience but compromise. God doesn't compromise. He is not subject to man. he compromised and you yourself informed me that he compromised.

I do not want to remind you of the one you call king, who could not speak up and claim his title or kingdom, in the presence of Herod! Baby, stop making me remind you things about christianity

hahaha um please remind me.

How about the person who should be happy to be the willing lamb, but then yelled out, my God, my God, why had thou forgavened me? Is that compromising to the Will of God? I think not!

ok seriosuly are you sure you know what sacrifice is? and then are you sure you actually pay attention to what you write?

If he did, will they be forcing me? Common, woman. lol.

ofcourse they're not forcing you, you're just, well i don't want to say it, it would be rude of me.
wait, wait, wait, so because you are not being forced then it means that it must be the truth?
um hello am i being forced to believe in what i believe? are we measuring truth by the amount of force? because if we are we see clearly that isalm is false because it was spread on the sword, you do remember "choose islam or death"

If a statement that, a verse that was to qualify as you said, then what do you make of the numerous statements, verse coming from paul, which contradicted what your son god said? How about the seven headed or six headed monster/beast of revelations, and other parts of the Bible spewing with devilsh inuendos?

ok now you're going to have to be very specific. what did paul say that contradicted Jesus? and then can you clarify what you're trying to say about the revelations or apocalypse.
i mean how does that show that the apostles were being influenced by the devil? i mean what words were put in by the devil? oya start clarifying.

this is gonna be so good.

You should realise that Qur'an calls women believers, too. The name is muminina. Its different from the Bible who says that you are permanently a sinner and that you will also suffer through childbearing as punishment!

yeah see this is what the prophet said about my womanhood: "Once allah's apostle went out to the musalla to offer the prayer of 'id-al-adha or al-fitr prayer. the he passed by the women and said, 'o women! give alms, as i have seen that the majority of the dwellers of hellfire were you women, you curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. i have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. a cautious sensible man could be led astry by some of you.

i cannot stand a religion that thinks i am less intelligent than a man.

Well about the sinner issue, um hello we are all sinners, either you are desperate or are really hypocritical. about childbearing hey i guess that's the punishment for sinning eh.

i'd rather get punished for my own sins and sinful nature than for a man's.

And in Islam, color and gender, and othr artificial barriers are not prerequisites for paradise or hellfire. Piety and god consciousness are.

You're either a liar or blind to the truth of your own religion. Here's what the prophet had to say about black people.

"Muhammad said 'when allah createdadam, he hit adam on the right shoulder and the white race sprang out, while the black race came from the left shoulder. allah said to those of the right hand to paradise you are and to the left to hell you go" mishkat al-messabih vol. 1, no. 119
muhammad got it from the quran in sura 3:106 which says "on the day when some faces will be white, and some faces will be black will be said: 'did ye reject the faith after accepting it? taste then the penalty for rejecting faith.'"

well as for the women issue well let's see some more: "Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise" sra 2:28

not to talk of the fact that men are alloed to beat their wives. yeah lightly, but women are not children to be spanked.

i also can't live with the fact that my husband can pump his penis into another woman's vagina when he wants to and the come to me. absolutely dreadful. infact he will loose his penis.

that's another thing, one minute women are good, the next they are the reasons men sin and they suffer for the sins of men.

She wants to tell me about the immortality of a man you claim from your own mouth died. I am telling you that his death is reserved for later, InshaAllah.

and i am telling you that he resurrected from his own power.

Oh boy, leave ~Lady~ alone. She is just playing around. I wished she is serious about all the promises. By now she should be covered from head to toes. And she aint nun

i mentioned it above. u should be ashamed of yourself, following a religion that says you will go to hell.

And Allah says yet the Qur'an is a different tongue (Language). In another verse, He say the revelation in pure Arabic

clarify your english please and how it relates to what you're commenting on.

There is a lot of material in the Qur'an where Jesus spoke and nothing like it in the Bible. Search for it. In Surah Al Maidah, he said to his people that if they associate anything with God, God has already forbidden Paradise for such a person, who will burn in hellfire. He also petitioned God to bring food from heaven to him, so that his followers may eat, as a sign of his prophethood to them.

actually the baby Jesus did mention that he would die and rise again, infact let's address that. why would Jesus say that he would die if he were not going to die, and then rise again.
here's another contradiction in islam: sura 3:55 "Jesus i will cause you to die and exalt you to my presence, and clear ou of those who disbelieve and make those who follow ou above those who disbelieve till the day of judgment"

and then according to the hadith "he will fight the people for the cause of islam. he will break the cross, kill the swine, and abolish jizyah. allah will perish all religions excep islam. he will destroy the antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die."

so will he die twice?

Allah spoke about the dialogue between Him and Jesus for mankind to see, on the day of Judgement. A thing of the future that must happen. What Jesus will say, exactly is recorded in this chapter. Then in Surah saffa, Jesus proclaimed to his people about the coming of a prophet whose name is Ahmad. Now tell me which of these you have in the Bible?

God doesn't lie so no need for lies in it.

How did the sticks of the magicians of Egypt became and looked like snake to all, including Moses? Now that should be sufficient as an answer for you. I will leave the miracles of Jesus alone, until I need to use any of it as an ace card.

so the egyptians worshipped the sticks?

And how do you stop an alcoholic or sustance abuser to stop, except you make them go through 12 steps program. It is a gradual process. No one stops cold turkey. I will also leave it alone so that you can go out and make a research for yourself.

So it is alright for allah to lay down a law and then change his mind because his people cannot handle it. Hmm sounds like allah is going according to the will of man. so much for the almighty eh.

First God the Almighty Allah says in many verses and Chapter 112 speaks that His name is Allah. Then He says that He begets none. And then He says He was not begottened. How you therefore got your begotten son beats every rational mind.

Finally, the Al Qur'an is complete and the chapter and opportunity of any Messenger or even a prophet is closed with Muhammad. All your suppositions are just that. Allah has spoken.

Well allah says that he can abrogate whatever he wants because he's allah and he shouldn't be questioned so it won't be a lie to say that he can change his mind and speak again and he can send another prophet if he wants and he can change his name from allah to chitty chitty bang bang. he can cange his mind and say that he is begotten.
I mean seriously allah can abrogate everything in the quran as he wishes, and it is not up to you to question.
so you just told a big fat lie saying that allah won't send another prophet, and that he won't say that he is begotten, because he can do whatever he wants and he can change his mind on what's written in the quran. so much for a reliable god. How can a god be so untrustworthy?

All this shows is that If allah himself is not immutable or unchangeable, or even loyal to the truth, then he meant very little or nothing of what he says about himself or his prophets and books, for this information is subject to revision or outright nullification.

your god does not adhere to the truth, he is a liar.

So how do you take up Jesus then, when he even said this Allah who you think is mangod is his Lord God? Read Mark 12 Verse 29, again. Its from the mouth of Jesus, directly. Thats what your Bible says about it. Unless the Bible is skiddish about this verse, too.

You know what I'm going to go ahead and post what Mark 12 says so that everyone will see that you are either a liar or illiterate in the english language.
28 one of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, "Which is the first of all the commandments?"
29 Jesus replied, "The first is this: 'Hear, O Isreal! The Lord our God is God alone!

So where in there does it say that Jesus was calling someone else God? He was repeating what was in the law as it is written in the law, he did not change it to first person, but left it in the third person, we do know that people do speak in the third person, so if one speaks in the third person, how then are they different from themselves.

But it's not only that, I have already told you that Christ is the Word of God as existed with him from the beginning. It is through this Word that the world was created. Now if you will please explain to me how it is that God existed without his word, oh yeah don't forget the Spirit too.

In all that you said you will appreciate that you did not give any example to buttress your point. In my abrogation, I gave the example of intosticants; alcohol to illustrate how it was allowed at the beginning. Then as their faith increases, it was frowned upon. Then finally as their faith matured and unshakeable, it was forbidden. Think about it. Then present your own example. Am waiting.

First of all I will address your abrogation.
If allah allowed the consumption of alcohol in the beginning and then as their faith increased he prohibited it, does it mean that muslim beginners can consume alcohol and then as their faith increases they can't? If so, won't that mean that they are going against what the quran says?
Or was this only applicable to those living in those days. And if so, why is it still in the quran as law, and which ones are to be used today, wouldn't that mean that there are revelations for each time of people and that muslims will convert i batches so that the law for that particular batch would be revealed and then the law for the next batch would be revealed in their own time.
Do you see how ridiculous your god is?

But since you want to prove that abrogations are ok, then why does it say this in the quran: sura 48:23 "such was the ways of allah in days gone by: and you shall find no change in the ways of allah"

so if allah does not change how come he changes as he wishes. if allah did permit alcohol why did he change and decide to prohibit it when he already shows that he doesn't change.

or is it sura 6:115 "perfected are the words of your lord in truth and justice. none can change his words"
or is it sura 17:77 "such were our ways with the apostles whom we sent before you. you shall find no change in our way"
and a hadith clearly states that allah said "my word does not change"

if allah is truth then his words won't change. but clearly it does.

I am also highly puzzled that if allah is all knowing why does he need to change a word, if he is so perfect why did he need to reveal better or similar ayahs. and wouldn't that limit allah to time and space or better place. if allah was for all people at all time, why the need for change at times.

and um if allah finds somethng better and can change his law to a better law, how then can he claim that muhamad is his last prophet and that his revelations are done.

what also amazes me is how allah would allow something that is from satan: sura 5:93 "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, - of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper."

and if it is truly from the devil how is it that it can have some benefit?
sura 2:219 "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider"
Why would the devil benefit man?

One would have to wonder how satan was able to drive your own god into the wilderness and then put him under temptations 3 times, afterwards? That figures. lol. Hey baby, are you alright?

lol, am just fine, just blessed and very loved by God. Now I have to wonder who's been lying to you telling you that the devil drove Jesus to the wilderness, maybe I should give you the real deal of what the Bible says.
Luke 4
1. Filled with the holy Spirit, Jesus was returned from the Jordan was led by the Spirit into the desert.

So as you see the devil didn't drive him to the desert at least not in the Bible anyway, and I know that's where you got the story from, so if the Bible didn't say it, then you must be a liar.

Oh yeah about the temptation, se you missed the part about him dismissing the devil eh. you must have missed that part.

Temporary over a prophet's tongue. And finally he was victorious. The first was in Makka. The victory was demostrated in Madina era. Remember the humiliation that satan suffered because he was making effort to distract the prophet in the salah. Thats victory, babe.

Yeah the devil never had an influence over the prophets of old or Jesus. Jesus never spoke anything from the devil. It should never have been temporary. Hearing Jesus voice the demons tremble let alone to even try to speak through him.

Yet these are still with us today, killing thousands and causing untold millions every year. Is god asleep or has he heard these prayers but chosen to remain silence? Are these prayers non-effective?

First of all, whatever you ask according to the will of the Father will be granted to you. There is a reason for everything. All things (good or bad) works out for the best for those who love God.

Second, you are very broad in the diseases and all, are all these Christians? Do they truly believe? Are they prayng with faith or are they praying just to see if it will really happen, that is doubt in itself and God is not one to be put to the test. He is not subject to man.

A recent trend I have noticed in some Christian talk is the issue of the casting of curses. Is this really supposed to be biblical? Does that bible give examples about how to cast curses? Who would a Christian want to cast a curse to? What did Jesus say about ones enemies? Should one cause a curse to be cast on one's enemies?

Do not be too general in your talk about Chrstians. You know very well that not all who claim to be Christians are. By your fruit you shall know them. I saw the thread on that Oyedepo pastor casting curses on the robbers instead of praying for them, I shook my head, but because all that is happening does that mean that I should deny God no. Man is full of flaws, just because I profess that I am a Christian doesn't mean that I am not full of flaws. There are times that I sin and don't even realise that I am sinning, infact I might even think that I am doing the right thing.
But because man sins does not in anyway mean that God himself is full of flaw, just because those who worship God sins does not mean that God whom they worship is applauding it, you never know what will happen tomorrow, it is even worse for them because they know better.
Will I now stop believing in God because man is full of flaw, absolutely not. If I do, it shows that I wasn't looking to God, but to man.

I saw that you mentioned that you were a Christian. If you left because of the actions of man, then I am very sorry for you, you weren't looking to God, you were only looking to man. You were not focused on heaven but on proving that it even exists. You weren't a Christian afterall. We walk by faith and not by sight and faith is the realisation of what is hoped for and evidence of things unseen.
You may choose to believe that things not seen are not at all real, but life over centuries have always held a belief in something or someone superior.
Looking to man will leave you faithless and very disappointed.
If you left because of the teachings in your Church well I am truly sorry that they didn't teach you the history of your religion and the truths revealed to us in time.

I was once a Christian, which has given me access to the christian mentality, doctrine and belief system.

I would like to know what the Christian mentality, doctrine, and belief system is in your view.

I will be back later. Have to run.

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Thank God that it said plan of salvation and not salvation itself. I guess that means that unbelievers cannot in anyway reach heaven, if the plan is not for them, I guess they cannot convert to Christianity then eh. Because clearly that's whatplan is.

I also thank God that it did not say these actually believe but that they profess. I always thought that in Christianity those who profess the name of Jesus are not actual followers of Jesus. But hey if because they profess it means that they are followers then I guess Jesus lied there.

*shakes head at the amount of people in christianity nowadays that cannot understand simple language they calim to understand*

Well, strictly speaking it is not hurting me direct but is hurting them, the believer directly in various ways namely financially, mentally, physically etc. It hurts me to see people so barely able to reason exploited so shame-facedly by these religious con-artists. It is because I care for them and the rest of the world that I am really concerned for their well-being.

In the long-run our civilization is at risk of degeneration if scientific rationalism gives way to superstitious supernaturalism. That is why I care.

Thanks for clarifying that it doesn't hurt u, now will u please have some respect for those "it hurts" religion. If it hurts them they won't do it.
I am a strong Catholic Christian, it has done nothing but help me. I don't feel worthless, I have a higher self-esteem, I love myself now, I love all those I come in contact with even those who hurt me, at the end of the day I wish them well. I am guided by principles and don't contradict my principles. I am not wayward.
I lend a helping hand and go the extra mile. If I choose to believe in a greater power that helps me to do better, how does that hurt you? It doesn't, infact it might help you one day. One day you might be the one in need of help and a believer in a superior being might be the one to lend a helping hand and that will be driven by the belief of the person, would you refuse his or her help then?
I doubt you will.

Like I said, if anything have some respect for people's beliefs. If they choose to believe that is entirely their own, it is not for you to decide for them. Just as u decide not to believe they decide to believe. They resepct your belief, respect theirs thank you.

Read the story, again. And again. maybe you will get the reason Shaitan was not made manifested, as a physical being. Let me help you; remember Solomon. Thats the hint

wait a minute so muhamad now had the power to make shaitan manifested as a human being?
how did i even miss that one.

However laughable, its head and shoulders more believeable than your story about a 'dead' man going into the hell fire to fight death and won. Yet everyone of you Christians, after believing this tale of a whopper will die.

well if i believe in allah, i will certainly go to hell, one because i am black, two because i am a woman and i lead men to sin. so i guess there's no hope for me wither way huh. no thanks I will stay in love.

and why didn't you comment on everything else that i wrote.

what is the first commandment? I'm only asking because your post seems to imply that you worship Jesus

Jesus is not a mortal as you view him. Thanks. Now go learn the truth and stop listening to the man that condemns women for the wrong done them.

Yee paripa!!  Lady abeg give us citations because these we will have to look into a bit deeper.  Are black people really condemned to hell in the koran?

Honestly I was contemplating letting you and david know of a book that I am reading.
I know how you two feel about catholics bur trust me you want to read this book.

If you both want I can send you the title of the book to your e-mails and you can read it. It not only talks about what i mentioned above but addresses a lot of issues dealing with islam and it truly shows that muhamad copied from Christianity and Judaism.

The feeling that I get from quran and reading brother Olabowale's post is that the whole religion is a reaction towards christianity, like it defines itself by contrasting itself to christianity.  Hence the consistent battering on about trinity and the oneness of God.   It seems that if there was no christianity then Islam  wouldn't know what to do with itself

It is true, Islam cannot address an issue with Jesus unless it comes from the Gospel. Islam is heavily reliant on Christianity.

I will have to get you the source for black people. I don't have the books with me on campus.

If the above is pure and genuine religion, as it is recorded in james 1;27, then i am very certain therefore, that believe in Trinity or anything in its form, etc, is not essential to be in pure and genuine religion.

YET AGAIN YOU ADD YOUR OWN BELIEF IN IT. WHAT DOES WHAT KUNLE SAID HAVE TO DO WITH TRINITY. HOW CAN A BELIEF IN TRUE RELIGION BE DIFFERENT FROM TRINITY OR DID YOU NOT READ THE QUOTE AGAIN? DID IT MENTION THAT THE TRINITY IS NOT A PART OF TRUE RELIGION.

IF YOU TRULY WANT US TO VISIT GENUINITY IN RELIGION WE CAN LOOK AT THE FACT THAT WOMEN ARE BLAMED FOR THE SINS OF MEN, HOW GENUINE IS THAT?
OR IS IT THAT WOMEN ARE NOT PROMISED ANYTHING IN HEAVEN, BUT ARE INFACT TOLD THAT THEY WILL BE IN HELL?
OR IS IT THAT BLACKS ARE CURSED AND CONDEMNED TO HELL?
AREN'T YOU A BLACK MAN? WHY ARE YOU WORSHIPPING A GOD THAT CONDEMNS YOU ALREADY NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO OR HOW GOOD YOU ARE, YOU ARE CONDEMNED BY THE COLOUR OF YOUR SKIN?

It is Qur'an, and, not Koran. As Omo Yoruba, you should know better. Now, we should not forget that the induction of total prohibition of consumption of alcoholic drinks and intosticants, did not come in one sweep move.

yet what god prohibits on earth he permits in heaven. So doesn't that mean that in heaven you will be able to murder, lie, and the virgins promised to men (seeing that women are not mentioned to make it to heaven) will run around naked, and you don't have to wash your privates before praying or you will be permitted to yawn and all. abi.

What kind of god permits sin in heaven but not on earth?
This is allah's plan "if you don't sin in earth, you will be permitted to sin in heaven"

With that as the backgroud of my piece, please note that Muhammad and none of his followers, up till now claim that he was more than a human messenger, a prophet

the devil can claim to be your best friend o. don't forget he was able to deceive adam and eve.

Allah says in the Qur'an that no prophet did he ever send, except such a prophet has his own enemy. Also, Muhammad (AS) said that Jesus and his mother did not have genie, jinn, shayatin created for them, based on the acceptance of the supplication made by Mary's mother when she was pregnant with her.

you're getting close to the immaculate conception, one more reason why i still say muhamad copied from the christian and jewish religion.

If therefore I take the Islamic viewpoint, which is what i take, Mary and her son, Jesus were never at anytime under the influence or control of satan/Devil.

You will see why the muslims hence see the herding of Jesus to the wilderness, and the three temptaions that ensued by the Devil as being events that we deem corrupted

yet never in the Bible did it mention Jesus being under control of the devil. He didn't go to the wildreness on the prompting of the devil, he went there to fast. at the end of his fasting the devil attempted to tempt him and Jesus triumphed as the true Son of God that he is.

Muhammad (as) says of mankind, no one is born without a jinn/born with him. And that the jinn/devil runs in the body of the son of Adam as blood flows in the veins.

if Jesus was a mere man, this shouldn't be an exception for him. yet again proving his divinity.

So the companions of the prophet asked him: Even you, Messenger of Allah? He said even me, except my own is tamed/controlled and made useless without any influence or power, by the Almighty Allah.

yet he still sinned and was still under the control of the devil when he inserted that the three daughters of allah can be worshipped too and used as intercessors.

For a wise mind, this story should have been sufficient for anyone to follow him, the moment they hear it. Especially for people of our time.

For a wise mind this story would show just how out of line of the prophets that muhamad is. never did any of the prophets try to commit a sin because they didn't receive a revelation when they wanted to, they submitted to the will of God and never questioned why they didn't receive revelation at a time they wanted to.

A proof of this is the treaty of Udabiyyah with the Quraishis of pagan Makka. They asked that his title, Prophet of Allah be erased.

He finally forced Ali bin Abi Talib, the Scribe to replace it with Muhammad bin Abdallah.

never once did any of the prophets of old try to comprise the will of God. God's will does not conform to man's will. Basically here allah bowed down to the quraysh.

The more powerful and larger in number Makkas were forcing him to compromise in his religious message. Telling him to join them in worshipping their idols for a short period of time.

So that they will enmasse become muslim and worship Allah the Almighty Creator in the greater period of time.

This was the reason Surah Kafirun was revealed that there should be no compromise.

and yet he already did.

Further, you will see that the verses that you deemed Satanic, occurred when the idol worhippers were around the prophet (AS).

You will also realise that the idols were mentioned by names and referred to as flying like the crane birds. The idolators of Makka bowed at the place in the Qur'an where the Muslims bowed as commanded in the Qur'an.

Immediately after that 'satanic verses," Jibril came down to intervene. The issue was again without allowing for compromise.

This was the singular reason for the hostility that led to the second minor Hijra to Ethiopia.

Finally that led to the final Hijra to Madina, because the condition never improved

Never did satan succeed over any of the prophets of old. never did satan deceive a prophet of old to insert something against God in a book that is supposed to contain God's words. Infact to even suggest that is to suggest that satan can have power over God's word.

Will it therefore not be noticed that the event of the influence of satan was a temporary one. Even though as he never ceased to be an open enemy to Muhammad.

When it comes to God's word satan should not even have any bit of influence, unless God is not all powerful in his word.

Even the physical body manifestation of the one that manifested was killed. The names of all of the three big idols remain in the Qur'an because Allah the Almighty did not abrogate or ordered their removal.

first of all you have to educate me on the physical manifestation of one of these daughters especially seeing that they were mere idols and to suggest a physical manifestation is to suggest that they had some sort of power, how could they when they were man made idols, or did man breathe air into them?
second let's talk about the abrogation from allah. how untruthful is allah that even he cannot stay true to a word he says. how can he be God when he lies also. H esimply changes his mind and undoes what he does. To suggest that God changes is to suggest that God is limited to time, because with time comes change. God is not limited to time and space as you and i are.
But hey maybe God will change his mind and decide that he has a SOn afterall and that all muslims should become Catholics.
If you say that it is impossible for allah to do so, you will be a liar because the quran states that allah can abrogate whatever he wants whenever he wants because he is allah and can do that.
That sounds like a notion of a mangod to me. It sounds like what man would imagine of God and not what God actually is.

So if allah cannot stay true to a word he has spoken how does he expect his subjects to stay true. If the perfect cannot be truthful how can the imperfect be truthful.

A story i will like to tell you as i finish is that Muhammad made a gesture of catching something in one of the salah that he led in Madina.

After the Salah, a companion asked him what was it that he did, since he was their Professor. He told them that Shaitan came to want to interfer with his Salah. So he caught it by his forelock. Shaitan was subdued.

He was about to have it manifested and be tied to the pillar of the Masjid, except that he remembered the supplication of his brother Solomon, who asked Allah not to make any human after him have the same power over things as he did.

Muhammad then said that he ordered that they let Shaitan go, unmanifested, but rendered humiliated.

He said if it was not that prayer of Solomon, Shaitan would have been made a play being, humiliated by the children of Madina.

haha this is so laughable, if muhamad had shaitan in his power why didn't he just kill him.

People who kept talking about virgin, virgin, virgin is because they haven't gotten any opportunity to break their virginity they. Marriage works because of love and respect. You can be a virgin and still fail in other qualities as a girl

and there are plenty of girls who feel used after loosing their virginity. No one said your marriage won't work if you've lost your virginity, infact it is because of that love and respect that your spouse will have for you after you have been truthful to them that will save your marriage.
But that does not rule out the fact that when girls loose their virginity they feel cheap and worthless. And you know very well that it is true. And the constant sleeping around does turn men away from women, no one wants a left over. Your husband can wonder well if you've given it to everybody else what else is there for me?

it is NOT only in Nigeria that the majority is so damn credilous and stupid as to be taken in by these con artist brandishing  the barbaric text from the bronze age.

It wouldn't kill you to have respect for our beliefs. We resepct yours now respect ours. If you truly believe that there is no God, that is entirely your own, so what harm is it that people have beliefs in a superior being. Does it burn your body, does it hurt you, does it kill you?

Have some respect if not anything.

I simply asked for an answer/explanation. Now tell me which one? I know the truth about Islam; One God. Now what about Christianity's Trinity or is it One God, two, like the Muslims?

The question you asked was assuming a false belief of yours. I had to correct you on your false belief. Like I have always said, ask questions about Christianity and not what your beliefs of Christianity are.

You know very well that Christ spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You know very well that he called himself the Son. You have asked us to show you this in the Bible and we have done so. You have resorted to taking a verse out of context and you repeatedly quote it to prove your point, which it does not prove but you are so blind and are extrememly desperate to have us see things your way.
I have repeatedly told you that the Son, Christ is subject to the Father. You keep aking us why Christ said what he said in mark 12 vs. 29 and it disappoints me every time, because it only shows me that basic english you do not comprehend. Christ was not in anyway point that he is not God, and when I questioned you on it, you deliberately skipped my question and have led me to believe you are very deceitful. Every time I encounter in a discussion with you about Christianiy or Islam, you lie to me and it's led me to have less respect for you. As of this time the only reason why I respect you is because of your age and not because of your intellect, and also because you choose to live out of fear and not out of love.


Christians believe in One God. If that is not clear enough for you then try your best to get your money back on your education.
You will ask about how it is that Christ is God and that the Spirit is God.
I tell you that Christ is the Word of God made flesh and that the Spirit is the Spirit of God himself.
You won't comprehend this and then I ask you if you think it is impossible, then explain to me how it is that God is separated from his Word and his Spirit.
You will completely skip that part because you know that you cannot explain it and then you will move on to something else to discredit Christianity, and I will tell you that you can keep trying but God always protects his Church, it is best for you to quit because you won't win. The Church will stand to the end.

You will also bring in your own belief that Jesus was just a word "Be" that God said to Mary just as he said to Adam and it is only a command, and I will inform you that this only supports the belief in Christianity that Jesus is the New Adam, the sinless Adam. You won't be able to dismiss that because it is also the belief in Islam that Jesus is sinless and that he was created as Adam was.
I will also inform you that the word for command in rabic is amr, but the word used to describe Jesus as the word is Kelima and it cetainly does not mean command, I'm sure you understand where I am getting to.

You will also say that Jesus is nothing but a command and a spirit proceeding from God. Then I will ask you to explain how it is that God's Spirit can be anything or anyone other than God Himself. I will remind you that a spirit is the life of the being. How can a being exist without it's life or separate from his life.

But truth stands out from falsehoods. Everytime there is light, darkness in all its forms have no leg to stand on.

This is why Christianity is always seen as the religion of peace and Islam is not. Peace in Islam does not reach to those who are ubelievers but only to the believers. So who is spreading falsehood here? Oh yeah there are verses in the koran that clearly tell that war should be waged againt all infidels.

Which Lord, your God; the One declared by jesus to be his own Lord, One God in Mark 12 vesre 29, or the onesdeclared in the post jesus era, as father god, son god and holy spirit/ghost god?

se u've forgotten that Christ himself spoke of the Father. Son, and Holy Spirit. Please stop inserting your confusion about Christianity here. Thanks. No one inserts confusion about Islam. The truth about Islam is what is going on.

CORRUPT NATION

Then how would you be able to distinguish the Americans from the Nigerians?

Nigeria should change it to naija

I second it, Naija is much more razzzzz and me I like razzzzzzz o.

Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Your piece, which you referred as answers to the Christian trinity, is completely deficient. This is the reason thatI personally have dismissed each and everyone of them.

Its even worse than a person trying to justify gender or sexual deviance because of some so called infancy traumatic experience. It does not work with me

I would apreciate it if you actually answered my question, thanks. I was and stil am very serious about that question, so please answer without beating around the bush and without your own personal opinions, just give me the straight answer to the question I asked.

If your belief is classically deficient, which it is based on your worshipping of triun, etc and calling a prophet, God, then you need to come to my side of the aisle. This is why i am inviting you, always.

I see you clearly don't understand the Christian concept of Trinity and no you haven't dismissed it, you might have lead yourself to believe it but you haven't, give yourself a pat on the back all you want, you still can't dismiss God himself.
Don't worry soon we will shift the attention to Islam.


My internet is back up again, YAY!!!!

Olabowale and babs

What is the Christian meaning of the Trinity?
I am very serious about this question, because I don't think you are even listening to my answers. If you were you would ask me questions based on my answers and not from your own beliefs in the quran or islam.

It would be very helpful if you didn't ask me questions about your belief but rather about mine.

I can't wait to return to reply to olabowale, after going through some of his posts.

I read through your posts and saw that you tried avoiding all I presented and noticed how you tried linking the already exposed verses (prophecies linked to Jesus) to Jesus and lastly the bringing of Prophet Muhammad into the thread.

First of all you're the one that brought the prophet muhamad into the thread by quoting from the quran.
Secondly did it ever occur to you that I am not done. In case you haven't noticed I always highlight every question and post an answer to them and when I have to leave and go do something else in my life, I leave and go do something else in my life and then when I have the time to return I do so and finish up.

So here's a hint. When reading my post, go through and make sure that I answered your questions, if I haven't gone through them, don't reply and wait for me to return.
Simple as that.

Are there any forms of medical interventions that are immoral and sinful?

Define medical interventions. What I may view as a medical intervention might be different from yours. For example the "medical intervention" of abortion. I do not support, it is a way for a woman to prevent taking responsibility for her actions.

I have just lit up a stick of incense because I like the scents and it helps me chill out in the evening. Then it just occurred to me that some religion have an injunctions against the use of incense.

Is it sinful to use incense?

It would be nice to know which religion

What was the point of creating this topic. I thought we were handling it in another one. Seriously this is a nuisance. So many topics on the same issue does not need to be created or are you bored?

Nothing has been done away with, if there is, show the scripture that said so

I agree, I want to see the scripture that says that the Sabath is done away with. David likes using scripture, I want him to use it here too.



*silly christians twisting the Bible to validate themselves.*

So moral behaviour is not absolute, but relative to time and place, correct? I thought god was the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Are his laws mutable then?

Lol, no the meaning of a word is relative to the time and place, but behaviour is still constant.
If two people were called slaves but one is treated as a human and as a member of a family but the other is treated as a dog and beaten and nearly killed, does it mean that they are being treated the same? No.

They may be called the same thing but the behaviours towards them are different.

For example the word using the body language to agree. Generally in the west if someone nods it is an approval where as in China or Japan i'm not sure it is regarded as a disagreeing.

I have to run. Bye.

OK, turn your bible to Leviticus 27 and read the following verses;


26 " 'No one, however, may dedicate the firstborn of an animal, since the firstborn already belongs to the LORD; whether an ox [k] or a sheep, it is the LORD's. 27 If it is one of the unclean animals, he may buy it back at its set value, adding a fifth of the value to it. If he does not redeem it, it is to be sold at its set value.

28 " 'But nothing that a man owns and devotes [l] to the LORD -whether man or animal or family land—may be sold or redeemed; everything so devoted is most holy to the LORD.

29 " 'No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; he must be put to death.

30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31 If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod—will be holy to the LORD. 33 He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.' "


Is god asking for human sacrifices here? methink so

I think I might need you to go through each of the verses and tell me what is wrong in them as you view it that is, so that I would know how to respond to it.

Human sacrifice where. God doesn't take anything unclean so how can the killing of a destructive person be a sacrifice for God.

Get you. Well at least, it appears you have learnt something new today. I hope.

Everyday is a learning day and I thank God for it.

Did you watch the videos?

No I didn't but I knew that would get you to do just what you did above which is go into detail for me. I am not using my home computer so I can't get on the youtube, not enough time to.

Let me read a text from my bible for you. This is Mark 16. it says;

"Verses 9 - 20 are not included in two of the best and oldest Greek copies of Mark"

Oh I do see your point. It is in my Bible too, and that it is why I love having a Catholic Bible it has everything.

This is what is said from mine. This passage, termed the longer Ending to the Marcan gospel by comparison with a much briefer conclusion found in some less important manuscripts, has traditionally been accepted as a canonical part of the gospel and was defined as such by the Council of Trent.

It is still accepted as Scripture.

Let me give you another; John 7, it says;

Some early Greek manuscript do not contain 7: 53 - 8: 11.

That covers the story of the woman caught in adultery.

It was contained in the Old Latin manuscripts. So infact it wasn't missing.