₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje: @largerwhenindoubt

You have been long on Nairaland and you know it's against the rule to write out full name or ID of a poster . I request you re edit your post and address me by my Nairaland ID. Thanks

Edited.. no harm done.. but your artworks no bad.. any up for sale

One must be cautious with words like "Believe". often than not, it gets used for Irrational Religious Belief as well as Rational Acceptance
Saying Atheist don't own Reason is Stating Atheists claims to "OWN" Reason and asking them to defend it. if I recall Proverbs in the Bible encourages Critical Thinking as well so your question is a Loaded Dice which when thrown can only have one result - The one you expect. it is not OPEN.

I speak for myself when i say Evolution is not a "belief" in the Irrational sense: it does not demand that we accept it without question, and neither do any of its supporters. I generally accept Evolution by Natural Selection as the best explanation of our origins, since right now there are no supported (i.e backed by objective evidence) Alternative Theories – . it is the state of the art. (though I really fancy the far-out Alien Origins more than any theory)

The theory is so advanced that its findings mesh extremely well with other branches of science e.g. the discovery of the Tiktaalik fossils were the result of evolutionary predictions of what might have lived 375 million years ago, at which point geologists were able to steer researchers towards rock formations of that age – and the predictions panned out very well.

However, what if I’m wrong, and some better explanation comes along? Then I will look at that too. My existence and self-image are not contingent on belief in any theory. This is the part that Religious folks don’t seem to get: We define the Theories, but are not defined by them. We’ll "believe" something if there’s a Reason to Believe: and if the reasons change to point at something else, we then can believe that – and suffer no consequences from the change, since we weren’t dogmatically wedded to the old “belief” in the first place.

Truckpusher: I use to run into them every now and then and manages to escape until I learnt some tricks abt them .
The first trick is to know the cartel that holds sway in the area you're going.
Second trick is to greet them using their signal and after a couple of handshakes that belongs to them you flash their peace signal and all smiles

Third trick is to tell them you've got money for them after all you already know they own this area.

Fourth trick is to bring out the goddamn alcohol from the car take a sip and hand it over to the one that looks more fierce and breathing fire and smoke.

Fifth trick is to bring out the cash count it and say I have 20gees in raw pidgin English and hand over 15gees then you tell them you needed the 5gees for your own waka
The hailing starts immediately and you can relax for 5 to 7mins exchanging banters (anyhow talk)....immediately you tell them that you want to go I can promise you that they will give you a blank cheque for the entire streets some will begin to ask for numbers and you're the king....if it doesn't work send me a pm

They will mob you like a mofo

Ishilove: Eyah. What a terribly misguided soul.

Would a time or situation ever arise in your life when you ask questions.. even if they are insufficiently insignificant? or you are addicted to Faith (Believing what you know ain't true)

ezme: I presently share your Christian faith so I'm not the enemy here. If your motive is to teach, you should have answers or plan to come with some later on

@frosbel is a distinct specie on nairaland - he originates from a group of aliens known as frosbelians - He is well read and well versed in the art of questioning without answering . his answers will come as further questions and so forth and so forth... there is no enemy but a closed-mind

Joagbaje: God bless you jare.Gods prosperity is with righteousness but religious people give impression as though God righteousness is against prosperity.
Proverbs 8:18 Riches and honour are with me;yea, durable riches and righteousness.

Dear @Joagbaje.
Happy 2013. I am among the few who will out-rightly castigate you in disagreement;(as is the norm on Nairaland) Since I feel it borders on wickedness to flog a thief who has been beaten by an angry mob. I disagree with your comments above, not because it is scriptural(y) inaccurate, but because it is scriptural(y) ambiguous to one who seeks Scriptural Discernment. f'course it is Perfect Wisdom to the recently-born again or babes in Christianity.

I take it you are a real (ordained) Pastor and in this role, you also Teach the Bible to a following as well. I wish to confirm. What is your approach on Teaching from the Bible? do you pick a verse outside of its subsuming Passage or Chapter and then expand on it by linking it to similar stand-alone verses from other passages/chapters/books? If yes, how do you ensure that your audience receives the benefit of Meaning and Purpose of a Passage or Chapter (in full) when you are working on a string of stand-alone verses that support the direction of your claim. Do you also realize that this is the same approach Satan adopted when he makes Bible quotes to Jesus. (of course Jesus having spent years studying the Bible was far discerning that Satan expected).

Applying scriptures out of ignorance is far less dangerous than misapplying it deliberately to manipulate reason (usually for selfish ends) This is the domain of False Prophets and Teachers (and f'course SATAN)

Let us look at your anchor verse Proverbs 8:20 in the context of the Meaning and Purpose of Proverbs 8 (i shall summarize) You can get the full NIV chapter here [url]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%208&version=NIV[/url]

Proverbs 8 urges us to seek discernment (knowledge and wisdom) far above worldly attractions.

10 Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, 11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Proverbs 8 proves that Wisdom is a virtue will keep your ways straight, give you good counsel and sound judgement.. make you a wealthy entrepreneur

14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine; I have insight, I have power. 15 By me kings reign and rulers issue decrees that are just; 16 by me princes govern, and nobles—all who rule on earth. 17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me. 18 With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity. 19 My fruit is better than fine gold; what I yield surpasses choice silver. 20 I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, 21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me and making their treasuries full.

From the above you can see how easy it is to twist scripture to your taste using stand-alone verses.. Pastors make very good chefs

ezme: Matthew 6.33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness;and all these things shall be added unto you

The preceding verses to this were emphasizing on God's ability to cater for us.

@Joagbaje/oiseworld
These are the words of Christ himself according to Matthew, stating in what order we should approach Christianity. I don't know if your prosperity teachers know better than Christ himself.

you took the words right out of my keyboards but i shall make my usually long post

The Ship is sinking and the rats are scurryng for food. Nigerians. de-population of illiterates by a huge percentage is long-over due

debosky: Even self confessed atheists can discuss giving better than some self proclaimed prosperity peddlers.

Bro are you sure you're an atheist?

Confirmed.. but nothing says I cannot study Christianity or read the Bible.

truthislight: even me sef have just been reading the guy and could not write again.

@lagerwhenindoubt

Good Job.

Thanks, all in a day's job

oiseworld: Lagerwhenindoubt,
The passage I gave was to buttress the fact that it is in giving with a willing heart that you also receive even into abundance of wealth. The prosperity pastors are not WRONG!neither are they misleading, that is my point. in a third world country like Nigeria and Africa at large, nobody want to hear about hell anymore. That message is cruel wickedness to an hungry man who believes in God. I think a better gospel of God's love and delight in your prosperity would be a better message.as long as You end up doing it God's way and serving him better.

and Moreover, all the scriptures u quoted above did not counter mine of prov 11:24. Rather you went on to butress my point further.

My rather long post was not to counter but to expose the fact that it is NOT a secret only MOGs know. if you note the RED parts of the verses, you will see that a lot of Prosperity Preachers neglect to complete the verses that are obviously linked to each other and prefer to quote only parts which they use to leverage on the flock to give to the clergy. you can confirm this every time they quote such verses to back up their instructions to give up you cash. Prosperity is an add-on to living a Healthy Christian Life and the Rules are clearly stated in the Bible in simple ABC. False MOGs manipulate scripture to their benefit ONLY

@oiseworld
You have confirmed my suspicions completely - You are a Prosperity Preaching Advocate/Supporter/Worker and Devotee CONGRATULATIONS.
One of the key traits of Prosperity Acolytes is their patent ability to quote scripture incompletely. doing so will invalidate whatever argument they are defending. They go further to accuse or guilt-trip you into thinking that you do not understand scripture and have thus sinned for not keeping to this simple instruction. Let me explain.

You quoted Proverbs 11:24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

What the Bible says Proverbs 11:24-25 There is one who scatters, and yet increases all the more, and there is one who withholds what is justly due, and yet it results only in want. The generous man will be prosperous, and he who waters will himself be watered.

The Act of GIVING (A simple concept that needs no spiritual explanation or theological comprehension) is talking about Giving to the Poor. Tithing is a totally different matter OGA!! If I did not understand (study, meditate and keeps the word on my lips) I would not be an atheist today.

I shall go further (at the expense of my laid out assignments for today) to buttress this point with the following verses (also note that Prosperity Preachers always omit the completion of Scripture by excluding the parts in RED (as shown below)

Deuteronomy 15:10-11 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. here will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.


Proverbs 3:27 Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, "Come back tomorrow and I’ll give it to you" when you already have it with you.

Proverbs 21:26 …the righteous gives and does not hold back.The sacrifice of an evil person is detestable, especially when it is offered with wrong motives


Proverbs 22:9 He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Proverbs 28:27 He who gives to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have many curses.

Matthew 6:3-4 But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Please not Prosperity Preachers omit word in RED when they quote this verse)

Acts 20:35 In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed.

A good Majority of Christians do not Study their Bibles, they now have books published by their Pastors that summarizes, explains and confirms what GOD's will is for you. Reading the Bible is just a relaxing hobby these days.

Please see my long-post below (sorry double-post)

oiseworld: I also really don't know why all frosbels topics is about criticism for the gospel. Because I know it is not God's will for his people to be poor. So I see nothing wrong with men of God revealing Biblical secrets to wealth and prosperity. It has worked for many and will work for many more.

I'll also like to ask frosbel if he could name at least 3 present day men of God that he believes in. (Doing the job Gods way). they all can't be fake naw.

1: What Does the Gospel of Jesus Christ Preach (Remember Jesus cannot be working against his Father's will)
2: Should one focus on Prosperity to the detriment of Salvation (be mindful that you can lose either)
3: There are no Bible Secrets to Wealth and Prosperity. it is really that simple.. there are passages in the Bible that promise Blessings on certain conditions (which are clearly spelt out) Men of God have added their own conditions to acquiring Wealth other than what God prescribes.. so there you have it.

Absolutely nothing positive.. it'll be hard to beat Abdulsalami Abubakar's record of emptying the treasury within the space of 3 months, well.. i'll just sit back and munch that presidential cassava bread as I abuse Sambo on the phone - sege iskanchi, banza

^^^
A True Christian always have the cringing questions scratching the walls of their mind, some become curious enough to challenge these questions, others sink deeper for answers already on the surface of daily realities. She saw the light at a truly young age, many are not so fortunate

Heavenly102: I do not see how they are doing a disservice to Christianity when they are making many rich

Can you please explain this phenomenon properly.. How do Pastors make others Rich. and I don't mean church workers

Presently FRANCE has an Immigration Problem, their Approach of Assimilation by Culture and Language over centuries has not paid the supposed dividends of French Capitalism Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians – Maghrebis – and Africans (Nigerians and Other West Africans) make up the bulk of France's estimated 6.5 million immigrants. While we don't like to talk much or give it a thought, the brutal fact is that the economic failings of France's Muslim and African immigrants stem in large measure from their low average IQ. read Lynn and Vanhanen's IQ And The Wealth Of Nations and you will get a better insight.. Their immigration policy is gradually paling-out due to the import of large masses of a diverse range of immigrants with radically varied and really low average IQ.

The Embassy will not tell you this but you are not really wanted to swell the ranks of Africans (Arabs and Blacks) causing soo much problem in their dear France Try Vietnam or Alaska

adedotman5: whats this doing in front page for goodness sake?

It is a business model.. and FYI there are more people interested in rubbish than there are in positive,nation-building, religiously enlightening etc stuff. You will see it on the frontpage if a Pastor is caught stealing, you won't see all the other pastors who make positive contributions to other peoples life.. (hold on, pastors do not contribute,, that was a bad example to use.. but you get the picture.

Nigeria is dying slowly but surely (and painfully too) eventually West Africa will see the largest refugee crisis as we simply go mad and start eating each other due to extreme poverty and Dog-Eat-Dog situation. only then will corruption die

aaaahhh. brings back memories of water-filled basins in the rain.. they are very tasty with garri, which was never in short supply.. but now that I am very butta, i cannot be seen eating these things

I don't see Bode George dead, or Gbenda Daniels or Fayose .. so how can Ohakim be dead.. wetin narr

We all know where this is going. the same EFCC that gave Lucky Igenidion a slap on the wrist charging him with a N3 million fine for a N25 billion crime.. he also got to keep a good portion of his loot and houses

[quote author=Ileke-IdI]Is skin-wash the same as bleaching? [/quote]How dare you de-mean Mercy Johnson by associating her exotic and sophisticated epidermal beauty bath by calling it Bleaching. While the effects are similar, the terms are different, Bleaching involves unprofessional rubbing of various mixed-creams from Lagos Island by some uneducated market-women. a beauty bath is not Bleaching please don't insult Mercy jooor

davidylan: Dumb. Actually i answered the question much earlier. you were probably too dense to notice.

Is said very simply that the likelihood that there are more atheist women than men is a possibility... their relative lack of contribution here appears to suggest the contrary but that may be because a lot of them would rather spend their time doing something more reasonable than blabbing on a "god" they claim does not exist. Quick example i used... there are FAR more christian men debating on this section, but it is well known that women sometimes outnumber men in the church 3:1.

you could have been much simpler oh high and much read davidylan (no relation to bob i hope). all this perambulating behind semantics is not needed to explain such a simple opinion even as you have done above. really i cannot keep up with your act

I wish to also mention the the NFF have a huge responsibility in a successful 2013 as much as Keshi does.. so he should also remind his members . Trophy or Sack

Now I am worried

Tinubu is responsible for this I tell you.. he will pay.. he will pay for this blatant attack with Heart Disease somebody back me up

davidylan: And the answer to that question changes the cost of bread tomorrow?

Well how quaint, reversing the poorly thought statements you spouted out.. next time STFU rather than blabbing and when you are confronted with your claims, you act as if it is not important when it actually was not important in the first when you started out

For the past 2 decades, the North continues to fail in several critical sectors from Education, Agriculture, Technology, Health, Real Estate, Employment etc.
Blame the Governors, Imans and the Religion that destines you a destitute more times than a successful person

true2god:
I hav engaged many pple whose belief system i fully understand and whose points slightly vary mine. But when u dnt understand where an individual stands dat makes it more dangerous.

Logicboy is plain enogh to tell us that he is an atheist and any engagement with him will be easier since u already knw his opinion and stance on certain issues, but Frosbel seem to be an atheist who is biblically informed.

So what you are saying is it matters who the messenger is MORE than the message. Are you part of a Belief System that knowingly propagates, perpetrates and sustains wrong-doing and is working to right this situation, however when a purposefully intent individual tries to expose the charade for what it truly is, you take offense because he is only exposing falsehood to make the propagators of such falsehood look bad.. hmmmn very slimy behavior wouldn't you agree. very Pharasee-like