₦airaland Forum

goodvine:
I think the claim that AP is bankrupt is just a ploy to get their management to liquidate the facility at the bank's terms.  I don't think they should resort to that.  we are all aware that the banks are under severe pressure to put their houses in order and comply with the full desclosure requirements of the new CBN Gov.  Again, I think the terms of the facility should dictate how the repayment should equally be.  For instance AP applied for a credit line to enable them fund the L/C.  The bank bidded for them through the CBN and established the L/C on their behalf with a terminal date wherein AP was expected to liquidate the facility.  I want to point out here that the bank did not give the loan to AP in naira but in dollars.  Now you will remember that around middle of November last year the CBN jacked up the exchange rate which moved from N116 to N120, 128, and down to about N150 = $1.  Since the bank gave the facility to AP in dollars, its just right and fair that AP repays in dollars irrespective of the current exchange rate.  Access Bank was not responsible for the rise of exchange rate.  If we say that the bank should hold itself responsible for the difference between N116 and N126 at the time of repayment, that will not be right, as they will be incurring the loss due to the exposure of an importer who opened L/C with them (especially where the credit line was obtained from a bank overseas).  I think the CBN and the Court will eventually rule in favour of the bank.  AP should be lucky to have the bank ask them to repay at N126 because we all know what the CBN rate is at the moment.  All importers who opened L/C with credit line from banks and did not liquidate before the November CBN disaster suffered the same fate, it is not peculiar to AP and I think we should face such challenging situations, repay just debts and move on rather than causing unnecessary problems for our bankers.   Access Bank must have obtained the facility on behalf of AP from a foreign bank to open the L/C, for them to repay the loan at maturity, the need to bid at CBN at the prevailing CBN rate before they can get the dollars to repay the loan to the overseas bank.  in such a situation the idea of N116 will not work since the exchange rate has changed.

I'm sorry, but the issue is quite simple. Products were bought and paid for on a particular date. This payment was made through CBN on that particular date from foreign exchange being bidded for and approved. This ends the purchase part of the agreement. Now the company within Nigeria, got a loan from Access Bank who made the payment for them in Naira which was exchanged to Dollars by the CBN. The Bank charged interest and fees for this transaction period. Whatever happens in terms of interests etc,  has nothing to do with the dollar anymore. Naira remains the currency within Nigeria and you can purchase dollars with your naira through central Bank.

We see a lot of double talk from Nigerian banks who consistently defraud the common Nigerian due to a lack of knowledge of International practices. If the scenario that I have illustrated is correct, then the bank is trying to defraud the Oil company in trying to reflect the current rates of the dollar. I bet they will not attempt this if it hadn't been to their benefit. This is racketeering and they should be sanctioned.

Since Central Bank approved the conversion of the Naira to Dollars for a single purpose which was to purchase the refined fuel, it remains at the rate of the one-time transaction. If the letter of credit was kept open and used repeatedly over different transactions, then the rates will be at each individual transaction. CBN's approval was contingent on each transaction as may be the case. I would doubt if CBN included as part of the transaction any further conditions regarding the variable rate of foreign exchange. Even if the company inadvertently signed a document saying otherwise, it will make the document possibly illegal because of our Foreign exchange system in Nigeria. We do not have an open trading one, and approvals are necessary for each and every transaction.

If Banks were to be allowed to do what access bank is trying to claim, then Nigerians should not have limits on Basic travel allowances. But I doubt if our exports can afford this, hence the law.

Why have these foolish guys decided to continue bringing Pa Awo's name up every opportunity that they get? Have these insensitive fools not learned from their Biafra escapade? This was the same attitude that they had after they introduced coups into the Nigerian culture. They went around the north bragging about dominating Nigeria after killing the Sardauna, and even went as far as posting pictures of his dead body with their boys stepping on him. They even created the most popular Igbo song till date that was a taunt of the Hausa on how they defeated them.

People who don't learn from the past are destined to make the same mistakes. Let them continue and be prepared for the backlash. Very soon, they will begin to cry victimization again. We can now see them running around all over websites claiming to have dominated Nigeria financially. These are the people who caused a good guy like Soludo to lose his job. Just keep it up. Oju o ri ola ri.

back2back:
not quite right.

It depends on what the agreement says. There are some with varibale exchange rate, there some you pay at prevailing exchange rate.

It will be moronic for an Oil company to source funds out of Nigeria based on a variable rate of another currency. It will be much cheaper to source the funds from the country who's currency is being used and have your Bank co-sign the agreement. Why will anyone source at 19%-25% when they can get the same for 1.5%-4%? Even speculating rich individuals from the Western World will jump on a deal like that and provide private funds for it. Is this how Nigerian business men do it?

If I remember correctly, we have at least 6 trains currently online. Yes, there are contractual obligations tied to these gas trains, but you do not ship sand to the desert. As long as gas is being produced in Nigeria that meets our needs, there should never be a need to import gas into Nigeria.

At best, Nigerian Government should negotiate an exchange where Gas we purchase will be shipped to the Customers intended for Nigerian gas. We should watch out for fraud here. Technically, if our Laws were solid, we should have a force majuere clause that allows our gas to meet domestic needs before the obligation to external customers can be met. Laws as proposed will circumvent the need for penalties contractually.

It makes no sense to ship our gas out and then ship other gas in because the shipping alone will cost a lot of money. Also, if I remember correctly, the LNG ships will in-fact use 10%-25% of the gas that they are carrying as fuel for the shipping itself. Non of this makes sense, and it may be another ploy for some politicians to loot us some more. All gas supplies out of Nigeria should simply be contingent on meeting the local demands first. In the case that contracts cannot be met, then a force-mujuere should be declared and the contract clause that governs it should be employed.

The other question that comes to my mind is if we have any regasification Terminal. From my understanding, The LNG Terminals that e have are Liquefaction ones. If LNG will be imported into Nigeria, then we will have to have the facilities to turn it back from Liquid to gas safely. This is a very expensive project and another hole for foreign exchange loss. This makes me wonder who advises our politicians and how we allow the outside world to keep milking us dry. A regasification terminal will run at least $300M dollars if I remember reading about it correctly. Well, I guess that will bring $30M-$60M as the standard 10%-20% that our politicians charge companies to get contracts.

Nigerians need to be more active about asking questions and demanding answers. We need more details about this deal so we can shred it apart. I can bet that no gas will be imported into Nigeria, but foreign exchange will still be paid out. Since EFCC may not have any officers trained to understand this process, then the looting of Nigeria continues unabated.

MrCrackles:
I quite agree with this. . . . .
Dat is the norm pretty much everywhere else!

Even though I had made that statement earlier, another scenario occurred to me as well. In very rare and certain conditions, there may be a stipulation where the transaction may be based on a 3 day average preceding the date of closing. This you will find in cases such as commodities in terms of final price for the agreement. What this means is that the price at the date of closing will be averaged with the trading price of the 2 previous days. I am not so sure that this is applied in foreign exchange trades though. But then with Nigeria, you never know. This is why i am adding this statement.

calyx:
So AP wants to pay back at the 116/$ rate they borrowed the money abi. What was the naira/$ rate at the time they want to repay. Consider the cost of the foreign transaction and all. Is the bank a charity organisation Abeg make una go pay wetin una owe jare

There is the base rate of the transaction which is locked as of the date of this transaction. Bank charges and interests are a separate affair from this. The exchange rate at the date and time of the transaction is locked. Anything else will be based on this locked rate.

The answers all lie in the small prints of their agreements. Access Bank has opened up a potential liability hole by creating a threat to the share price of the company by attempting to induce panic. But then, in Nigeria, it could be a concerted ploy by both Access Bank and A/P to force shareholders to panic and sell, while they buy back the stocks at a reduced rate and retire them internally. This will in-turn raise the value of the company.

EFCC should begin their investigations into this drama because I personally believe that this is a case of the more you see, the less you know. Racketeering is widespread and profitable in Nigeria's financial markets. The question to ask yourself is why Access Bank will try this case in the news media, while they have supposedly filed a case. I gag order should have been in place upon filing.

Hey Y'all,

I just read this thread and get the gist. But I have been going through this crap too, and will like someone to intervene. Geeze, it is frustrating to spend time writing long winded responses (articles) just to see them not show up. Please check my postings in my profile and see what you can do. Tried reposting the same stuff as a quote, it showed up and then disappeared like a minute later. Thx

Rather Shameless isn't it. We'll keep observing.

ajileko:
Sorry I meant to say folasade, kind of a heavy set lady and she told me alot about you.

You are definitely a fraud because I don't know a Folashade either. I don't even know a Folashade in Naija either. Why are you lying? I can now say for a fact that you're not honest.

I really can't believe what I am reading. This woman is still trying to defend these things? I have already spotted lies from what she has told me personally. Coolface, be careful now, our yahoo conversations are saved. If you continue this approach rather than being apologetic, I may promptly post the transcripts from yahoo. In case you're not aware, I hate liars and cheats. You were also the one going on and on about me not trusting. You can obviously see why trust has to be earned. Check your own yahoo transcripts to see what you had told me about this issue and compare with what I am seeing here now.

okay now, who is here deleting my posts? What kind of crap is this?

ajileko:
@ lanre, here you are stating the obvious again. This is building 101 that you are talking about and most people here already took and passed that course with flying colour. What the poster was trying to know is wether 600k is too much for a strip foundation in Sango Ota and the answer is "yes" given what we know, 600k is way too much for just a foundation. High price does not guarantee quality and quality should not be over priced.

Who is this Lanre that you keep referring to? Why are you so concerned about building 101 or whatever you want to call it? Rather than putting all your efforts into me, why don't you do a breakdown of the costs and post over here? You are beginning to worry me with your defensive nature. Have you built anything for anyone here on Nairaland? Could you please mention them so we can hear what they have to say about dealing with you?

tkb417:
@Larez
Nice one brother. That's a good one and I hope that piece can and will educate the war mongers.

Nice one man

How did you get to read it? I still don't see the post coming up. Thanks by the way.

What happened to my post?

I have always viewed myself as an objective person. Lived in the U.S for over 26 years and embraced every Nigerian as one and my brethren. Now back in Naija and very appalled at the obvious way that our politicians have manipulated the minds of our people to galvanize some against the other. I am an indigent of Lagos, and i am very upset with the way these Biafran boys are running around and claiming Lagos to be everybody's Land. Lagos is my Land, and Yorubaland. our hospitality should not be mistaken for weakness.

When in the North there are attacks against certain tribes, I have always thought about what could make human beings become so animalistic and devoid of conscience to begin to attack each other mainly because of tribal differences etc, Nairaland has opened my eyes to this. I can now see how many years of torment by a certain people can end up making others go berserk and lose their senses of decency. This is not to endorse such behavior which lacks any justification whatever.

That being said, I can only wonder where the leaders of these Biafran boys who have decided to embark on an internet based psychological warfare. I must commend them for their strategy though. They are willing to sacrifice their own by causing other tribes to start attacking Igbo, and hence galvanize them with bitterness to be able to form a formidable force. These guys also have strategically hidden their children and close kin abroad so when the bloodletting starts, it does not touch their immediate families. Some of them probably signed agreements already on weapon deals to make sure that they will gain from the profits of War. I can almost bet that they have probably imported various facilities for Factories that will help feed their War efforts.

What I wonder about while reading all this junk is how they intend to feed themselves during these battles. Do they intend to eat the people that they kill in war as in their previous war? Do they plan on raiding the Niger-Deltans and seize their farms to feed their soldiers? What Airfields do they plan to use or do they think they won't need this? Maybe this is why they tried to take over the Government of Sao Tome so they can have a supposed safe haven which they will only need to defend by sea.

War is a serious business and if any group in Nigeria attempts to take the innocent people of Nigeria into war, then there will be dire consequences. Starvation will definitely be acceptable practice. Do not allude yourself into thinking there will be a prolonged war where you will be able to benefit sitting abroad and shipping arms and ammunition into Nigeria to get fat off the War. I can assure you that you will not be safe in your safe havens. Assassins will be trained and you will be annihilated wherever you are.

I must admit that my 2 closest friends are Indigbo. These however are progressive people, and friendships are part of the collateral damages of war. If Biafrans attack my people, i will join in protecting them and ending the war as soon as possible. An extended War creates more human casualties. When I do join my people in battle, it will be with a doctrine of overwhelming force. This means if the statistics show that an area is mostly populated with the enemy, and a minute few of my people, we may have to sacrifice some of my people to end the war fast and bomb the hell out of the area.

Nigeria does not need a war, and anybody who advocates for it is a traitor. What we should be focusing on is galvanizing all Nigerians regardless of tribe against our common enemy which is a government that refuses to work for the people. We should target the very few who have turned the rest of us into dirt under their feet to walk all over. We should all reject the doctrines of hate that they propagating to keep us divided and continue looting us collectively blind. We should stop paying NEPA/PHCN unless we have recharge meters that measure the power that we actually get to use.

Our problems are many and all the ethnic hatred and animosity does not serve the common man any justice. The people we are talking about have already bought themselves private jets that will secure and move their families out of the country if any trouble breaks out. Judging from the comments that I have read in this forum, I am now of the opinion that we do indeed need a sovereign conference. A sovereign conference that will allow each local community to select their representatives from known reputable leaders and not the criminals that have stolen power for themselves. I can see that a few people have successfully bred ethnic distrust, and it will take time before the country can overcome this. Maybe this realization should allow us to call a vote and look at the possibility of restructuring the entity Nigeria.

If the leaders of all Nigerian ethnic groups do not call their people to order and continue to allow the spread of hate in Nigeria, then we have no choice but to vote on the possibility of splitting up Nigeria and let each man go back to his home to start rethinking. I am from Lagos State, and will back Fashola as a leader to speak for Lagos. The Nigerian capital is now in Abuja and those who have issues with the Federal government should take it up in Abuja. Lagosians are very much welcoming people, and Lagos was very clean and well developed long before the capital came to Lagos. I have seen some fools talk about Lagos being shit back in the days, but I hate to burst your bubble. Lagos was a strong trading post even before the coming of the colonials. Anywhere in history where there was such a trading post, it was always followed by strong development.

Some Biafrans come here talking some crap about Christianity and Igbo adding up to become an overwhelming reason of Igbo being more progressive etc, But who brought Christianity to Igbo? Was it not a Yoruba emancipated slave named Samuel Ajayi Crowther? Should you not be thankful that Yoruba has been consistent in not only thinking about it's own ethnic group but spreading good to the underprivileged regardless of where they come from? Historically, in Igboland did villages not raid neighboring villages and kill each other to pilfer on one another's wealth and in some cases took the people they conquered as meat for food?

Yorubaland has always had a rich culture and heritage. Archeological facts and the experience of the first missionaries proved how shocked they were to discover the Farms and cultivated crops that extended as far as their eyes could see in their first experiences of going inwards away from the coast to discover the Yorubas. Why are we then rewriting history to miseducate people and warp the truth? Was the progressiveness of the Yoruba not the reason that the British deliberately set out to destroy the potential power of Nigeria? Was this not why the British crown decided on a policy to sabotage Nigeria?

Libya has shown itself to be more advanced than Nigeria in asking the Italians for compensation for their killing and sabotage of the Libyan people. Italy recently agreed to compensate them 100s of Billions in this regard. Our Politicians are not looking for reparations to fix Nigeria for what the British did to her citizens. They have been well bribed and are happy with their looted funds. If you were not aware of it, but the British have released a bunch of historical documents that were formally classified. These included notes of former Governors of the entities now known as Nigeria. Each person who wants to know the true story of Nigeria should find these documents and begin to read them. This is what I have been doing recently, and you will be shocked at the revelations in them. The British were obviously successful at what they set-out to do, as we can see it's result even here on Nairaland. Their strategy of destroying the potential of Nigeria has clearly worked.

If you must know, Nigerians were not the originators of election and population rigging. The British introduced this into Nigeria since their governing days. The recent census of Nigeria under Obasanjo only takes a little effort to debunk. If we look at the satellite imagery that are now readily available and check the density of population indicated by housing, we will easily understand that the census is not credible. Have you wondered why people from Niger (Country) have been allowed an open border into Nigeria? Kano may be a large metropolis, but how in the world can it's population be compared to Lagos? Anyone in the petroleum marketing field will tell you that even today, the petroleum shipped outside of the West of River Niger to the rest of Nigeria is less than 10% of Nigeria's petroleum consumption.

I understand the need for the Igbo to praise themselves and lift up each other's spirits. However, this should not be achieved by boasting and belittling other Nigerians. Yorubas by culture are very welcoming people, and should never be mistaken as weak. I am clear and certain that even with this open nature, if push comes to shove, a galvanized Yoruba is very formidable. Fashola has warned and wise ears better listen. Lagos is no-longer the capital of Nigeria, and if you force it to take the typical attitude of most of Nigeria, the whole country will lose. can a Yoruba man go to Anambra and start making noise about all the money he has invested in Anambra and helping to develop it? You best believe that that kind of talk is very offensive and you do not want the Yoruba to begin making the Igbo uncomfortable in Yorubaland. We have always extended courtesy across the Niger, so refrain from abusing it.

Time to start doing DNA tests to resolve all the issues. Everyone will know who their cousins are. Urrgh

I for one doubted the allegations and advised the parties to sort out issues off Nairaland. But then, with all these new revelations, I am glad that things were made more clear here. I wonder what it would be like if everyone that has had contact with the accused posted all their communication with the person. I am sure there will be shockers.

Nairaland will be a much nicer environment if fraudulent activities are brought to the open. This will in-turn let the 419ers know that such nonsense will not be tolerated. I have changed my opinion about this and now stand in agreement with the defrauded ones.

@ Lawyer:

Please check your email. Props to you for straight-fowardness.

@Coolface

If you want to redeem your reputation. Pay the SINGLE MOTHER, who has clearly laboured for her money. There are no gray areas here. Work was done and MUST be paid for or else it will be a fact that you defrauded her. We don't know for sure what happened between you and the others, but the allegation here are clear and you have not disputed any of her claims. We usually tell men to act bigger and ignore issues, but this one here is woman to woman, and single mother to single mother which you always bring up as a crutch. I will advise you to stop posting on Nairaland until you have cleared this debt, and your next post should be a confirmation of this payment. When you're done with the payment, you should lie low for a while and think about how not to be deemed manipulative by too many people. There is always a fire, where there is smoke.

@Siena, please let this go and retain your dignity. But before I forget, I just want to say thanks a whole bunch. You have confirmed some theories and patterns that were dancing in my head.

It is very amazing to continue reading this thread realizing how ignorant people really are about home design and construction. It is very obvious that this is the type of ignorance that causes the collapse of buildings in Nigeria, and the numerous numbers of unsafe structures as well. I will therefore try to embark on trying to educate people some. Hopefully, this will make a difference.

Here are some basic rules to keep in mind first:

1.   You will always get what you pay for.

2.   A cheap price will get you a cheap product and will probably cost you more to  fix it than if you had paid for a quality product.

3.   People who offer you cheap prices are not necessarily of good intentions and may want to lasso you in with their price. Same people once you begin with them will soon teach you a lesson with inferior products and blackmail to pay more or you're on your own. Usually, people with pride and dignity will choose to correct things out of pocket, before coming to you to pay more and losing face about their professionalism.

4.   A project clearly depends on the specs for it. The shell of a house may basically cost the same if the same construction process is used. But quality homes in Nigeria have adapted to using more advanced processes which may cost a little more. The finishes of a house could cost up to 4X of a basic finish of the same house.

5.   It is better to focus on the professionalism of a builder to seek one who takes pride in his work, and then try to negotiate the best possible deal with the person.

6.   Do not attempt to get bids on a building without specifying the exact process and material that will be used for construction of the building. A good Architect/Designer will assist you with this process and may come up with a material list as well as a finishing schedule for the project. Your contract should be tied to this and must include the type of windows, doors, plumbing and cabinet fixtures. It is important that you specify your floor and ceiling finishing schedules as well. A marble floor will definitely cost a lot more than a plain concrete floor covered in paint.

7. Do not trust people who want to give you houses that you know cost a lot more for little or nothing. Nobody gives away wealth to strangers without having their own agenda. They will get you good along the way and you will end up paying more while getting less. They will also keep you manipulated psychologically by holding on to the fake fact that they are doing you a favour.

8.  Remember once again that you will always get what you paid for, and no reputable contractor gives away quality houses for free. It is better to pay up front for a good quality product, than to get surprise hidden costs added to a bad product.

I hope these few words will assist those looking to build their homes, and I wish you the best in this process. Goodluck.

I charge $225.00/Hr consultation with a minimum of 2 hours including traveling time, if I need to come out to meet the client. Ignorant guys like Ajileko (sufferhead) are the types who low-ball to trap the client and then steal them blind. My average design af approximately a 4000 sqft (heated) home costs my clients $8000.00 to $12,000.00. But then, my name stands behind the home. This is the most important cost to the client. Talent is priceless and market rates determine it's price, not drudging hourly labour. Ajileko is merely a foreman that you put at your site to make sure the workers there follow instructions. He can't understand the concept of the dignity behind Architecture.

He wouldn't know the difference between a Claude Monet, Van Gogh etc, from a painting being sold along Ikeja road by a street hawker.

Dis Guy:
_{Larez,calm down; your posts were not deleted by the moderator, they are caught be a spam filter software,
it will appear very soon}

Thanks Dis Guy, you can see why I was frustrated. It was a lengthy one, and I would have hated to know that all that effort was in vain. Thanks once again.

No longer applies, previous post showed.

I am very furious at the so0called moderator who deleted my response to this obvious fool who has no clue of what Architecture is really about. People like this are the ones miseducating people in Nigeria and thus creating a whole bunch more of clueless people.

In my deleted post, I actually did a critique regarding the 2 pictures that Mr. Clueless had posted and recommended a couple of historical Architects for him to look up. I am not about to go through all that again, and may actually come back to delete all my posts in this thread. Here is a Kid in school that has barely learned anything about Architecture speaking with self deluded authority about what he knows nothing about. 

Update: The previous post in reference has since shown up.