₦airaland Forum

There is an urgent need to stop terrorism which means it must be carefully defined at first. Terrorism comes from religion but on the other hand, spirituality is one of the most important sectors of human development and may become even more important if carefully and deliberately approached. So I support promoting spirituality while banning religion. Really, no occupation is more rewarding and fulfilling than to be a monk ministering to people's spiritual needs, helping to make the impossible possible through minimal efforts. A master of the dark secrets who guide others on how to access the dark energy of God is who a monk or a priest is.

Whatever is being done in spirituality may not be directly reconcilable with the physical world but the rituals are established systems of encryption with the other world, which is a replica or the original of our own world.

It is not wrong to have taboos, to have customs, for instance, devotees of Ayelala do not lie, do not commit adultery, must not fornicate on pain of death. Those of Obatala must always be calm, humble, do not take alcohol. The Oje do not lie. Jews do not eat pork. Hindus don't eat beef. They are all manners of keeping to a tradition. At this stage, it remains interesting and it actually spices up living.

Where the evil comes in is when freedom is removed and some people start saying you have to perform certain rituals, believe some people are super humans, believe certain foolish things and believe that the Supreme being will burn you in hell forever if you don't accept these mundane rules and unreasonable beliefs. Note that the Supreme being was formerly a detached loving father/mother who is not petty and provides everything we need but has now been turned to a beast by demonic agents.

No human being. Man, woman or child is anything that others can not become or that others are barred from. Son of God, God or last prophet, medical doctor, engineer or lawyer. We are whatever we are because of other people. Christianity and Islam are wrong because they put some people on a superhuman pedestal when infact those people were ordinary human beings. The fact that someone said he is God, son of God or last prophet does not mean they are right. Anyone being ranked high should only be because of visible contributions to human development not because they have some demons working for them to derail people's minds. Great teachers have existed in the past who did not use their influence for self aggrandisement as God or last prophet, people like Zoroaster, Socrates, Aristotle, Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tse and many others. Those are the real people sent by God. Not some Jesus or Mohammed.

Terrorism does not start when it becomes physical. If you believe and are telling people they have to believe some foolish tales from the Bible or the Quran else they will be burned for eternity in your God's hell, that is terrorism and you are a terrorist and you need to change.

There is a saying that goes thus 'Bi iro ba nlo fun ogun odun, ijo kan soso ni ooto yio ba' meaning 'even if a lie gets a twenty years' head start, the truth will catch up with it on thesame day it takes off'. This is particularly true in the case of Christianity and Islam, two dangerous ideologies that want to take over the world while consisting of bitterly irreconciliable sects within themselves. They go about trying to subvert others under their ideology by threatening people who disbelieve them with eternal damnation in hellfire. That these ideologies are still standing only because the truth has not taken off is self evident. Once the truth takes off, these ideologies will be consigned to the dustbin of history within a year. How can the truth take off? I believe it will be when a critical mass of people stand together to demystify the founders of these ideologies by calling them what they really were, which is charlattans. Someone, that is Jesus, who compared non Jews to dogs and Jews to children before being charged for blasphemy by the Jews after equating himself to God, then executed, did not die for humanity but was executed for blasphemy like many before and after him. Also, Mohammed who killed a man and raped his wife on thesame day, apart from attacking people for not worshipping God according to his own dictates can not be forgiven by a just God as he was well aware of what he was doing. So he is surely in the hell fire he threatened people with. These people were in the employ of demons to put it mildly, which can only be for the purpose of setting humanity against themselves and setting back human progress. Once there are enough people that have realised this, the job of breaking their demonic stronghold will be much easier but we need to reach the critical mass.

Please Yoruba are Yoruba, they are Ife people who descended on Earth from Orun and spread all over the Earth from the first point at Ile Ife. Abraham, Adam, Noah were descendants of Ife people. Abraham lived only 5 thousand years ago whereas the present Ife calendar is Year 10059 this year. The ancestors of Northern Europeans, Australians, Chinese and etc left Africa over 30 thousand years before this present calendar was inaugurated. Please don't be misled to believe the Yoruba have a culture derived from Arabs, Egyptians or Jews, all of whom emerged recently. The reverse is the case, they derived from the people that established the first Ife. Thank you all.

While it is true that some languages are haphazardly grouped as edoid, the fact is that languages like Esan, Afemai and etc are not more related to Benin language than Yoruba. Can anyone show us how they are? And surprisingly Igbo seem to be more related to Yoruba than the neighbouring Afemai, Egun and Benin though it is not a Yoruboid language, there is a need for linguists to do a lot of comparative studies. So in a way, if Afemai, Esan, Urhobo are Edoid langiages, then Akoko and Yoruba should be too. The broad classification is YEAI Yoruboid Edo Akoko and Igbo which are seen as same family. The Yoruboid group of Yoruba, Igala, Itsekiri have only dialectical differences and are almost mutually intelligible, same with the Igboid group, the Edoid are totally different languages that are not mutually intelligible, the Akokoid too are loosely connected. How it came to be like that is hard to understand. We still have other lingos on the fringes like the Nupoid group including Tapa and Ebira who share certain characteristics with the YEAI and etc. There is a scholarly work by Prof Bolaji Aremo that dissects the common origin of Yoruba and Igbo, there should be such works for all pairs of these lingos. I would like to see one that compares Yoruba and Benin. My hunch says Yoruba and Igbos were thesame stock recently than Yoruba and Benin were same. Where did the Egun come from? Maybe from South America as the language is too diffferent. I will opine that the ancestors of the Yoruba and Igbo were the main people in Southern Nigeria a few thousand years back.

WHO WERE JESUS AND MOHAMMED?

Many people point to some verses in the Ifa corpus mentioning Jesus or Mohammed as validations of those characters when the truth is that the Awos of say twenty thousand years ago knew Ifa in a language we would not be able to understand and thousands of verses too, then Ifa verses are not absolute truths, nothing is. It is only fraudsters, liars and evil people who claim to possess absolute truths. A honest human being will advise people to make further research and reach better conclusions as Buddha advised his followers but a criminal would not. All Orunmila did was to create or establish a system of stories that encompasses all possible situations in life, 256 in all, then he devised a system to point the Awo or a diviner to a particular one to help an enquiree, under the assumption that Olodumare is always trying to assist human beings and therefore he will point the Awo or infact anyone, to the right odu for guidance, for the Awo with integrity, under Olodumare, the assumption works like the Riemann's hypothesis works in science despite that it has not been proved. You can create your own odus too, as many Awos have done which led to the stories of Jesus and Mohammed and it will work as well. They are not absolute truths! And will never be. Nothing is. Jesus and Mohammed were not orisas, far from it, to be an orisa, you have to bring advancement to humanity, not set humanity backwards and against each other, leading to killings, arguments, bigotry, hatred and general backwardness as Jesus and Mohammed have done. If anything, Jesus and Mohammed were probably incarnates of some wily Ajogun (malevolent irunmales) who manifested against the will of Olodumare, Allah, Ubangiji as the case may be in any culture, just like we have humans of that nature. There is a need to be clear about this. Jesus and Mohammed were the opposites of what an orisha is.

To the ancient Yoruba, Olodumare does nothing by himself or alone, including the creation of the universe. He chairs a council of 401 irunmale with himself being one of them. This is the equivalent of the Elohim headship of which the Jewish tribal deity may be a member. This idea is also what the ancient Arabs believed before Mohammed came to spoil the air with his Islam. It is basically what was acceptable to all humans before the advent of religious fascism whose basis is worship only one God which makes no sense just like bribe only one Judge makes no sense. There are innumerable irunmales called fairies by the English, jinns by Arabs and etc. For someone to now come and say 'I am the sole God, I am the only son of God or I am the last prophet and sole mouthpiece of God, the only person who can announce the decisions of God' is sacrilegious, mischievious, dangerous, sad and unfortunate. We have to get conscious and break free from such blasphemy and heresy to move forward as a specie. No one is anything that others are barred from. Even extra terrrestrial humans that we are yet to encounter are not. Not to talk of mere men like us who became human because of the people they met on ground as well as those who came before them.

In the past, people became expert diviners after long years of rigorous training under different teachers, among the Yoruba, all the diviners were Awo, someone of high integrity and not criminals, liars and etc. Their camaraderie and fraternity made sure that the power of Olodumare was not abused. An Awo that abuses that power would no longer be an Awo, but an Odale which means traitor. Just like a Doctor can not become a billionaire on account of practicing medicine, an Awo too can not become a billionaire on account of helping people access the 'Ase' of Olodumare. Only business men become billionaires while diviners fall under the category of artisans.

PastorAIO:
Hi Akin 101.  I cannot really answer that question as to whether they can accurately foretell the life of a person.  I have heard people say they were disappointed with divinations they had and others have said that they were amazed by the accuracy of it.  I suspect it depends less on the tools of Ifa, the ikin and the opele,  and more on the personal Ase (ability) of the diviner.   Some people can foretell a lot about someone even without the need to cast an odu. 
However, apart from the use as a divinatory tool, I find the odu and their contents very deeply philosophical and they present an amazing cosmology that is second to none. 
There are various dos and don'ts for each odu.  They have their various ewoo (taboo).  They have their various herbs, and their various objects or foodstuffs for sacrifice.  I can write a post later on describing the process of divination and how the babalawo arrives at a diagnosis and decides when moves to  make in order to ascertain Ire (good fortune) and block Ibi (bad fortune). 
I sometimes find that I can read situations and the dynamics around someone and thereby make predictions without requiring any divination instruments. 

Irete meji is an odu that talks about hitting rock bottom and coming back up again.  The theme of Death and resurrection is strong in this.  It is also this same process that is parallel during initiation which is a death and rebirth too.  Ifa is said to spend 3 days and 3 nights under the earth before it re-emerges during the initiation.  This same process can be portrayed as orunmila falling into a hole, or a well.  Other times it is portrayed as throwing the Ikin (ifa) away into the sea, or into a lake.  After 3 days it is miraculously retrieved. 
In short, it talks about loss and recovery.   Sometimes it is portrayed as a child losing contact with his parents and then one day being reconciled back to them (often after a series of tests to prove descent from the father).  After initiation it is important not to discuss what happened with the Ogberi, that is the uninitiates.  So the theme of secrecy is strong here too. 

I don't know much about Ogbe Alara, but Ofun Meji is known as the Yee pa Odu.  That is the Odu of the Ogboni society.  It is also the Odu of Odu herself.  Oduduwa.  Ofun is the giver, known for generosity.  It talks about how the world was created and supported.

http://www.cultural-expressions.com/ifa/odu/ofun.htm

One of the images of Ofun is the world as a calabash that is supported by 4 staffs connected to it via 4 chains.  As these staffs move it stirs different currents in the calabash that cause the various events that occur in the world.  I like to think of these 4 staffs as the 4 elements. 

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=73809211150

@Pastor AIO. Sir, I am surprised that with your vast knowledge about Ifa that you have doubts that it is a communication channel with Olodumare sir, with the other world. Even in science, things like Quantum entanglement can not be explained. Riemann's theory is used without anyone knowing why it is true. This is the case with Ifa but if you don't believe in its efficacy by submitting yourself to Olodumare, then I doubt if your divinations can be reliable. I have a hunch that there is a need to believe it works, a need to pray before using the instruments. I have been following your comments sir and I find it a bit dissappointing that you think it may not be reliable. There are charlattans definitely, those who are not real scholars, but a real Ifa scholar, an Awo who also has integrity is a servant of God. Thanks sir.

Ajibolatao:
Using such word with someone you are dialoguing with shows how well you are being brought up. Why leave the the discussion? If you truly believe in the Ogun and so, then y don't you believe in God? Mind you, they ask you to do so

Mohammed killed a man and raped his wife on same day. He attacked people for worshipping God in ways different from his dictates. Mohammed is in hell fire. Pls revert to the traditions of your ancestors under God. God bless you.

If not for pride, self conceit and demon possession, are you too big to worship idols under God?

9jacrip:
You're not the latter yet you want to derive the former? How's that possible?

The corpus, as said before has two sides to it. Myths and historical facts/pointers. Apart from the Oduduwa and Obatala who lived in Ife at a period dated to be 10th C, every other illustrations are mere conjectures to explain situations.

It is like saying the Osun who gave birth to Esu in Odu Osetura reincarnated to marry Sango in the 15tg C. One is to explain situation, one is an hostorical fact/pointer.

Obatala's duality is because of his wife. You will never find Obatala's figure to be one - compulsorily two; male and female. The female is Yeemo who also wears white like her man.

We are different in the way we approach these things then. I believe there was an Osun incarnate who gave birth to an Esu incarnate in reality. How far back, I do not know but for it to form part of the corpus, it means something like that happened. I also believe that a group of dare devil ancient astronauts landed on Earth from an human civilization elsewhere in the universe, maybe as soon as Earth became habitable. They were led by Ogun. How far back, we have no mechanism of knowing. If you say Obatala lived in Ife in the 10th century, it means you do not believe the history that he is the most respected of all orisas, the father figure to all and father of all humans.

9jacrip:
The emboldened is why you should not work yourself up over something you have little grasp of.

Obatala being regarded as either sex was more of allegory than actuality.

Now, the reason Ifa depicted Obatala as female s few times was actually in reference to Yeemo (Yeyemoolu) and the facf that Obatala initiated into Aje group.

He's referred to as BabaYeye because of his wife who was powerful and one of the first Aje. You cannot revere or adhere to Obatala in isolation, you do so with the wife in the picture. And they're at times interchanged for each other - they were/are one; one couldn't function without the other.

You are saying I should not work myself up on something or dwell on it when that is the only way of being illuminated. I may not be an Awo but I have been studying these things as well and I can also offer insights. I believe there was indeed a female Obatala, probably the first Obatala was female. Why else would they put such in the corpus? But Obatala is regarded as a Father today. The first Oduduwa was a female as well but now the Oduduwa we know is regarded as a father. All is intertwined but it is all supposed to guide us.

Oduduwa is not even a prominent orisa, the new Oduduwa that founded the new dynasty was a father figure like Awolowo, not our progenitor in reality.To compare him to Ogun will be sacrilegious. He does not even have a day of the week named after him, so he was not important until recently. From Ifa verses, there was a female Obatala, then a male one. So Obatala infact was not exclusively male or female but the society depicts him as a father. There have been very many Oguns. The Oba of Benin, Ogun Ewuare also took the name. There were others Ajero, Alara, Onikola, Makinde and many others. It was the Alara that liked dogmeat and he is why dogs are sacrificed to Ogun and so on.

macof:
With all this I can see that you are even confused with the whole thing. .its normal, I've been there.

In one tale, Ogun is son and heir of Oduduwa, in another he is the one that led Orisha to earth(many more still exist). When you look at both carefully you realize one is Cosmology the other is history

The real meaning of Ekun is strong man. If someone is called Ekun, it means strong man. Omo ekun means child or children of a strong man or King. Ekun also means strong in Kemitic Egyptian.

9jacrip:
Orunmila didn't rule Ife, he even spent more time in Ekiti than in Ife.

Moremi story of Ife and Offa and Ugbo correspond.

Oduduwa came in 9th/10th C after up to like 90 leaders before Obatala.

Let us not confuse myth with actual history. When Ifa speaks of situations involving deities as the acts, they're mostly to explain situations not to be taken literally.

There were various Ifes from the beginning of the world to date. Do not take tradition lightly. The first Ife was founded by Obatala and scientifically that might be hundreds of thousands of years ago at least if not millions. How he came to be domiciled at Iranje is what I don't understand as I am not an Awo. How Ogun who led the team that landed on Earth domiciled at Ire, I do not know but Obatala was father of all. Various Obas of many ancient Ifes would have been incarnations of Ogun, Sango, Obatala, Orunmila, though I see all orisa as manifesting a special department of Obatala who is father or leader of all. All of them were also in the team that landed on Earth with civilization. Then the Ifa corpus is muddled up with cross accounts of different orisas incarnated in different places at different times. Obatala as male then as female, the last Sango was the Alaafin who ruled in the 15th century while the first one was part of the team that founded Ife, Duro Ladipo was Sango in his own right too. There have been various Oguns as well. However on the overall there was no struggle between the first Obatala and Oduduwa and it seems somehow apparent that the pre Oduduwa dynasty among the Yoruba had Orunmila on top of it. Prior to that it might be Ogun, then Obatala, I am not sure though bu the male Oduduwa who arrived recently is not their mate, the original Oduduwa that came with the orisas was a woman

When talking of Obatala, that is totally prehistoric. The new Oduduwa in Ife came recently and the Moremi story must have happened in one of the hundreds of old Ifes that existed before the founding of Offa as Moremi is the matron deity of Offa. After Obatala were people like Orunmila with his own dynasty in Ife, later the new Oduduwa who could not have met Orunmila not to talk of Obatala on the ground. We may be talking of hundreds of thousands of years of history, maybe billlions of years. There are various place names in Ifa which some say corresponds to places like Australia, West Indies and etc.

My brother, Mohammed attacked people for not worshipping God according to his dictates. He killed a man and raped his wife on thesame day. Without a doubt, Mohammed is in hellfire. Research the spirituality of your ancestors and revert to it. That is the elusive religion of peace. Thanks.

SirWere:
Hahahahahaha.
If the Aborisha exists, why didn't they stop the exploits of the British Missionaries. Afterall, they destroyed shrines.!
**Pulls stool closer** Sir Lawani , baaba o, come explain

Despite the evil onslaught of Abrahamic religions that spreads hate, bigotry and violence, all cultures still retain their traditional practices to a large extent. You just need to scratch the surface. The Aborisha exists, the Wiccan exists, The Maiguzuwa exists and etc because they are natural to their people and they will be revived eventually. They are all under thesame God. Not the beast of Abrahamic religions. Europeans are no longer Christians and we are now Christians, why haven't we overtaken them? As for why we were colonised, I will answer with a saying 'Eni yara ni Ogun ngbe' meaning Ogun assists and supports anyone with initiative, that is fast enough to seize an opportunity.

Ogun supported England when they championed the industrial revolution and will support you today if you commit to any noble venture. Ase

PastorAIO:
I heard of Jewesun from Osamaro Ibie's book on Ifism. He goes into it in Oyeku meji. Frankly, I thought the entire book smacked of western influence and interpretation.

http://documents.mx/documents/101601683-osamaro-ifism-vol-1-english-complete-osamaro-ibie.html

The first people to be regarded as sons of God were Kings whom their mothers were said to have conceived as virgins. Osiris of Kemitic Egypt is one apart from others. Such stories were rife and Jesus would have heard it either from Greeks or Egyptians. Probably Greeks as Greece was a successor of Egypt. The Jews were expecting a Messiah to save them from Gentile rule of Romans and Jesus started posturing himself as a kind of Messiah, greater than David, he quoted scriptures to support this. The Jews wanted a son of David not a greater than David. Then he never was ready to rise against Rome as he advocated that Jews should give to Caesar what is Caesar's. He talked of a kingdom of God in men's heart, a docile system of winning people over. At the end he was charged and executed like many others before and after him. His followers continued his heretic teachings which was later adopted by Gentiles and finetuned to become what we have today but in actual fact he was an ordinary human and did not die for people's past and future sins. He never imagined non Jews would be looking up to him. Thanks.

The practice of deifying Kings is also practiced among the Yoruba and it is what led to calling a fellow human being son of God or God himself.

FOLYKAZE:
The babalawo in the movie meant that Jesus which the woman called is known as Jewesun in Ifa.

Edit: the babalawo is Lalude

Do never take Ifa stories at face value. There are verses depicting Obatala as a woman, then later as a man. Ifa is not absolute truth and all the characters featured in Ifa stories were incarnated severally. There are many means by which stories entered the corpus, some Awos claim to be able to telepathically know what is happening in other cultures, then put it in the corpus, it does not mean the stories are true or false but they offer lessons. Ifa is not absolute truth! Far from it. Nothing is absolute truth.

Baba, m o ni ibeere kan ti m o fe beere ti e ba ni idahun is. E jowo kini itumo ala (mi mi) ti o jeyo ninu Obatala ati Orisaala. M o m o wipe ala (do do) tumo s i funfun, ala (do mi) tumo s I dream ni ede Geesi. Sugbon emi ko m o itumo ala (mi mi) ti owa ninu orisaala ati Obatala. M o ro wipe nla (big) ni tele sugbon ko da mi loju m o bayi. E se pupo.

Ibeere yi ko je m o ohun ti okun oro yi da le lori sugbon inu mi yio dun ti e ba le la mi loye. E seun.

E ku ise opolo o. Olodumare a ma ran yin lowo o. Ase Edumare.

Please do consider Pagan naija's view. Mohammed is probably in hell fire. A man who attacked people for not following his instructions on how to worship one Allah. A man who was a war monger, rapist and blood spiller. He killed a man and raped his wife on thesame day. He and his henchmen are cooling off their heels in hellfire. Pls research the spiritualities of your ancestors and revert to them. That is the elusive religion of peace. God bless you sirs and mas.

All peoples were great and achieved monumental feats in the past when they depended on their own hard work and joint effort instead of waiting for some allocaion from an obscure place. Our ancestors were more enlightened and advanced than us and they achieved feats we can not today. I doubt if modern Kano can join hands and resources together to build such a wall today in the 21st century. Old Kano can not be ruled by a President who is a billionaire in dollars without having a single viable business yet wants to fight corruption. This is why the Kanawa tha wants change must seek that the country be reorganised to stop depending on oil money or breakup.

RSA has a similar GDP with Nigeria of more than 3 times the population, so with a good government and social security system modelled after that of Europe, such riots would not have happened. Such riots do not happen in Europe because locals know all workers including foreigners are working for them by paying into social security.

I hate having to set the records straight about Ife Benin relationship everytime. I would not know the language spoken by my ancestors of five thousand years ago but the modern Yoruba we speak today is derived mainly from Kemitic Egyptian built on a proto Igbo/Ife language, then there are words from Esan, Tapa, Afemai and etc. The Yoruba is now a distinct language on its own. I for now believe the two languages that share the most cognates with modern Yoruba are Kemitic Egyptian and the Igboid group of languages.

As for the word Oba, it means perch on top of something. If I say m o ba le ni ori, it means I perched on top of it. The diacritics is reh reh reh mih reh mih. So an Oba means someone perching on top of everything meaning King. So it is a Yoruba word and not edoid though I would not know if the word also has a meaning in Benin. Among all the groups referred to as Edoid, only the Benin use the word Oba, from where they exported it to Ogba land during the time of the empire. Then it should be clear that the Benin empire was a Yoruba speaking empire headquartered in Benin and Benin itself is from Ibinu, a Yoruba word meaning vexation or anger, named so by people from Ife, the empire was not Edoid in identity but Eastern Yoruba. The royals were addressed only in Yoruba in the past and that would include all the early Kings of Anioma, Onitsha and Ogba land. All those Kings spoke Yoruba in their courts in the past when they related with Benin. The Portuguese and British corresponded with the Benin only in Yoruba. Those are facts of history that can be checked. There were definitely Edoid empires in the past because we have had civilization for thousands and thousands of years but the Benin was not one. That one was Yoruba in identity. The word Ba from which Oba was derived also occurs in old Kemitic Egyptian and means more or less thesame as in modern Yoruba. I believe there must be an equivalent in Igala, Itsekiri, Olukunmi and other Yoruboid languages. So again the word for King in Yoruba is Oba as in Alaafin is the Oba of Oyo, Deji is the Oba of Akure, Owa Obokun is the Oba of Ijesa, Ooni is the Oba of Ife. So people should learn. All those titles do not mean King, they are just orikis to identify one Oba from the other. Olu is not Oba. A town with an Olu started off as an appendage of an Oba. Olu means prime person. Olu omo means prime child or most important child.

The Benin may not be able to understand our language today but I believe our ancestors understood their ancestors very well and that they saw Ife as their source hence their accepting a new Prince from the new dynasty in Ife. Oranyan formed the present line of Obas in Benin and returned to Ife, leaving behind his small son Owomika as King, hence the title 'Omo ni Oba ni Edo' meaning The child is King in Edo.

Those are the facts and that is the origin of the Oba title in Benin but of course some Benin have new versions of history that attempt to contradict these positions in a bid to carve out a different identity but this is not necessary. Different languages do not mean we are not one people. The people who spread the English language across the word had ancestors that spoke Celtic languages that are totally unrelated to English like Russian is unrelated to Chinese.

I have written in the past that the creation is often more advanced than the creator. A calculator does sums faster than humans and was created for that purpose. An iron tool was created to cut things better. An aircraft or automoble to move faster. This is why Artificial intelligence will surpass human intelligence infinitely.

However I have since observed that there are creations that are less advanced than the creator, creations like statues for instance, are mere images of the real thing. Those creations were made, not as a tool for the creator but for the pleasure of the creator. Statues are the most common things that fall into this category. They are images of people. This is the only argument to support the idea that the creator of man is more advanced than man. If man is a tool, the argument will no longer suffice but as an image it suffices.

Our knowledge on this plane is bounded, our wisdom is bounded and etc, so in many ways, we are like statues, not the real thing, but obviously we can tap into the real thing as we all have access, and equally. The real thing knows everything, is all wise and can do anything. This is now my new position. I believe humans too are inherently able to get closer and closer to this state of the real thing, especially by harnessing both matter and mind properly. However, you have to be omni science, omnipotent and etc if you are claiming to be God.

To the Yoruba, the other world is a replica of our world, there is probably an infinite number of irunmales but the Olodumare's government sits in a place called Ogotun with two hundred irun males on his right and two hundred on his left forming a council of four hundred and one irunmales with Olodumare as the head, ruling Ogotun as the Olu of Ogotun and the whole universe consisting of uncountable number of living things and uncountable number of irunmales as Olodumare.

Now, it is logical to deduce that orisas are incarnations of prominent irunmales using the as above so below rule because any society, whether of bees, ants, humans or irunmales will not be so different from the other and will be organised in a similar fashion.

The question of who created Olodumare will of course emerge but it can be a case of A creates B, B creates C, C creates D and D creates A all over again in a cycle or even a singularity where everything is one. However, it is better to limit our quest to Olodumare or God while leaving the other world to brainstorm about who created them. The answer to the question will be simple. The best answer I can think of is that everything is one. Nothing is separate from another.

If the population of Kano state is around 20 million people consisting of farmers, artisans, traders, manufacturers and etc involved in actual production and economic activities, including children and beggars who do not add value but spend money nevertheless, it may be possible to collect up to 1000 naira from each everyday on average or on a per capita basis in form of taxes. It will be possible to collect this monies if the government is under the people and the money is going into tax funded and compulsory education for all, infrastructural development, support for entrepreneural activities, irrigation projects and other expenditures geared towards turning Kano into a nation like Japan or Norway within a few years. The Kanawa can definitely do this. Even if the per capita income of Kano is less than USD 4000 per annum, it can still be done because 4 thousand dollars a year is a lot of money in a country like Nigeria whereas someone with that income in a US city would be a homeless person. If a lot of money belonging to the people is pooled together as a tool, then things will start happening.

Where people are working together, it is not impossible to get one thousand naira a day on average from each living person in a state in Nigeria. Some may be lower, some may be higher but the average can be up to a thousand naira definitely, with proper motivation, direction and organisation. For a state like Kano, the first year may see them grossing twenty billion naira everyday to collectively attack their problems with and start rising. That will mean 600 billion naira in one month as internally generated revenue in Kano. This can be done because one thousand naira on average from all the Kanawa is no big deal and within a few years, they might have grown economically to be paying an average of 5 thousand naira a day, afterall nations like Norway, US, Japan and etc are not performing magic.

Despite that this revenue will be huge, it will not be guaranteed unless the economy is booming, so the government will work tirelessly to make the economy continue booming. Comic scenes like the recent accusal of the President Buhari Nigerian Presidency of spending 6 billion naira in six months on the maintenance of private jets with the Presidency retorting that they spent only 2 billion naira will no longer be the order of the day because nobody who is paying 40 percent of their income to government will stand for such nonsense. Such nonsense is only possible in a nation like Nigeria where the source of government revenue is unrelated to the people's enterprise. Nigeria's money is gotten mainly from pillaging the Niger Delta (Though I believe if the Niger Deltans donate the oil freely, the result will still be thesame because hard earned money never ranks thesame as free money). It will not also be possible for the Kano government to sign away as commission to a software company, 1 percent of government revenue that could go into huge capital projects and so on and so forth amidst incessant rhetorics on fighting corruption.

This is why it will be a good thing for the concerned Kanawa to sponsor a bid to break away their state from Nigeria. I believe their politicians may not want to support this but if there are demonstrations in support of such, they may have no choice. The resources of a nation are its people, its workers, its markets, not some natural resources buried underground waiting to be discovered. That is a demonic indoctrination employed by people who are desperate to keep Nigeria one for selfish and ignoble reasons. Some Kanawa may say 'let us organise ourselves but keep collecting the oil money'. I will rather say 'take the radical approach, breakaway immediately and organise yourself to start ascending to the pinnacle of human development. To wait for the voluntary support of politicians may mean most people may never experience nation building in their life times. Also, there is no need for the oil money, it is inconsequential and it is right to leave it for the owners at this time that the oil era is winding up. This can not come near correcting the injustice done to them but it shows empathy.

The right and noble thing to do remains the right and noble thing to do, no matter what. Dissociating from a moribund entity remains the right thing to do.

Anas09:
Hey look!!!!!, satan has got ya.

To the Aborisha, there is no Satan. Can there be two captains in a boat? Two US Presidents? Two Chinese Presidents? Satan is one of the gimmick cooked up by Abrahamic religions to enslave the masses. No Satan my brother. Free your mind.

I often get asked 'What religion are you practicing?' I do not like the word religion. It sounds too much like rigid to me and like ridiculous. Religion is for bound people, for adults who refuse to grow up, who chose to remain as malleable as children, but I appreciate that humans need a relationship with the other world. In that wise I am an Aborisha like my ancestors, Ogun, Orunmila, Oduduwa, Osun and etc. I am an Aborisha, meaning one who does not feel too big to bow down and worship any creation of Olodumare. All of us from Ere Ijesa in Osun state are children, not slaves of the Onikoje, a river deity in Ere Ijesa, under Olodumare. To bow down and reverence anything or anyone is never a problem. No human being should feel too big to do that. This is why I am an Aborisha, a humble person under Olodumare and all the Eda. I worship and reverence everyone and everything. That is an Aborisha.

I am also a Wiccan, a witch or wizard who believes anything can be brought to reality by the sheer power of the human will. I am a Shinto for believing the most distant past is intricately linked with the present and the future. I am Hindu for insisting that no one should dictate a spiritual path for another human being. I am Buddhist for accepting that there is no need to accept that any deity exists before you can be of good standing and so on and so forth. I am Jewish for coming from a place with a national deity.

I am however not Christian or Muslim, as that will mean I have to be a dangerous and opinionated bigot by default. An eventuality I am very desperate to avoid.

macof:
Yes we can say that Irunmole incarnate as orisa. . I agree
Olodumare is no title sir, it's a personal name given by our ancestors to this spirit force. A pity I don't know what it means

Titles will not be that complicated of a word, don't you think? Aseda is a title meaning Creator, or better "maker of creatures"

I am not sure whether Olodumare is one person since the beginning of time or if there can be successions by other irunmale. Anyone that says he or she knows for sure will not be believed by me. The Yoruba say Olodumare is the Olu of Ogotun which is where the capital is and where the 401 member council of irunmale sits, this is why I said it might be a title.

macof:
Correct supreme being. .leave it at that. Not Taking it a step forward to "only" I hope you understand my point

Irunmole are not like fairies o they are spirit forces. ..nd Olodumare is one of them. . The greatest of them. I used to think Irunmoles were Olodumare in a singularity until a babalawo corrected me. Iwin are like fairies


Gods are what is worshipped or venerated, having a cult following. It's that simple.

Orisa are more than just people who distinguished themselves but anthropomorphized aspects of certain irunmale using historical events from the lives and times of those those who had close relationship with the Irunmole

I can allign with the view that orisas were irunmale but there is no orisa being worshipped that was not incarnated. So an irunmale must incarnate to become an orisa. I agree that Olodumare is also an irunmale but in thesame way that the US President is a US citizen. This is the failing of Abrahamic religions, they acknowledge the existence of jinns, angels but do not realize that their rulership will be of their kind. Olodumare is more of a title than a personal name. Thanks.

macof:
Stop saying what you don't know. Yoruba don't have only one God. . Stop being shamed of polytheism because others want you to.

many Irunmoles(spirit forces) are expressed into Orisa using actual historical events .
This expressions are the Orisa that we relate with as Gods
Olodumare being the senior Irunmole and 401st has no humanised expression like many other Irunmoles but Olodumare is not the only God. .the supreme? Sure but I disagree with the term "only"?

Olodumare is the Supreme being. Orisa is orisa, irunmale is irunmale. Egun is Egun. They are not God and Yoruba never saw them as God. We bow down to worship Kings, parents and etc too. Are they then God? Please don't be confused. Orisa were people who distinguished themselves. Irunmales are like fairies. So how are they God? Egun are the ancestors. I am not against polytheism just stating how things were in the past.

itstpia8:
oga, the expression you are referring to is He's not heavy cos he's my brother which is an American one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Ain't_Heavy,_He's_My_Brother

check the above link for other usages of the phrase, in other countries. Not sure why you had to fabricate a Yoruba reference to this story and who you are targetting in Ilesa or wherever.



as per Bantu, west Africans are not Bantu, not being Fulani does not mean a person is Bantu.

Please take note.

I fabricated the story? Rev Ludlow's memoir is online and free for all to read. Do your research or just type the phrase with his name. That is easy enough instead of just typing without research. According to him he got that phrase from a young girl in Ilesa and he used it as a sermon topic across the world. Rev and Dr Mrs Ludlow were Methodist missionaries if I remember right.

I hear that only the Tiv or is it Idoma speak a Bantu language in Nigeria. However Ku as die is a feature of Bantu languages, the word Bantu or something like it is also used for man. Yoruba has some features of a Bantu language, so some linguists list the language as semi bantu. The word Ku meaning die does not exist in Igbo to the immediate East of the Yoruba but exists in Bantu groups farther removed from the Yoruba as far as South Africa. It is a mix and I never said Yoruba are Bantu only that the language has features of a Bantu language. Please do your research. Thanks.

http://www.tonyludlow.net/rnlpdf/rnlbook.pdf

The orisas are not God, there is only one God according to all Nigerian cultures. Olodumare, Chukwuabiama, Osanobua are some of the names. That you bow down to an orisa or to your parents do not make them god or God. Osun is an orisa and not God. Then orisas have incarnated several times, this accounts for Osun marrying Sango, Osoosi and etc. Those must be different incarnations. Ogun have incarnated severally as the Onire, Alara, Ajero, Gbenagbena, Ogun Badagry and etc. It was the Alara that was fond of dog meat, the Ajero liked palm wine and etc. Even Ewuare of Benin was seen as an Ogun incarnate. That is the explanation about Osun having many husbands.