₦airaland Forum

Richirich713:
The Jews were not the only eyewitnesses, there was also the romans.

Why wud Jews lie against jesus? Cuz they didn't believe in him, they accused him of sorcery and blasphemy, they lie against him to get him killed.

Jewish rabbi's 2day even continue to lie about him especially regarding Isaiah 53.

Also not all the Jews rejected him, there were some who believe in him, like they Jews who wrote the New testament.

He met some Romans sure and Jews believe his biological father was a Roman soldier but no Roman minded him, they took no notice of him and would not prosecute him but instead delivered him to the Jews. If he were posturing as a Messiah, the Romans would have executed him immediately as they did to Simon the Messiah but he posed no threat at all to them, so they released him. I don't see where the possibility of lying against him emerges. Didn't he call himself God? Do you think those who knew the relationship between Mary and the soldier Pantheras should have kept quiet? I do not see the point. Maybe you think the Jews should have waived the blasphemy.

How can any nation base the emoluments of civil servants on how much rent the government can collect from foreign companies mining natural resources in the country? If that is the case, the civil servants will be paid poorly or not at all depending on the marketability of the natural resources at any point in time. It is a very foolish, infact, the most foolish way to run a nation and that is why the minimum wage in Nigeria is one of the lowest in the world. From 1914 to 1956, when Nigeria had no oil to export, the civil servants were paid from taxes drawn from the economy and Nigerian civil servants' remunerations were similar to that of European civil servants and others around the world. Nigeria did not depend on oil so much until the latter part of the Gowon regime and during the second republic, states did not wait for allocations, hence corruption was more restricted to Alhaji Shagari's Presidency. Those who support that the nation should not change immediately from the dependence on crude oil sales as the main source of government revenue may think they are punishing the Niger Deltans or having one on them by sitting on their oil but obviously that is not the case because while trying to block others' prosperity, you wont prosper yourself and you may remain at 1 percent of your potentials while those leading you like President Buhari will be so rich from corruption they will not be able to declare their assets in public because of embarrassment. How does a man whose only business is 270 cows explain a one billion dollar fortune? That is the situation.

There were nations in this Nigeria area in the past, centuries ago, that achieved feats that modern Nigeria can not achieve in the 21st century due to lack of organisation. Those nations organised themselves via taxes and were not hypocrites, living a lie, led by fraudsters, murderers and liars, which made it possible for them to build their nations.

Are billionaire Pastors like Adeboye and Bishop Oyedepo going to speak up in favour of organising the country via taxation? No they will never, not because they dont know it is the right thing to do, since of course they visit other countries and know how things are run there. So it may be because they want to be the only ones collecting tithes, a form of tax which Adeboye removes from the salary of every employee of RCCG at source, be you a university lecturer, doctor or teacher and whether or not you are a RCCG member. They then use the tithes to expand their empires, assassinate dissidents and opponents, finance human rituals and etc. I dont know why they want the country to remain down, it may be because of the money they think is realisable from visa prayers, but that is myopic because a well organised nation will mean a bigger GDP and more tithes and offerings, the way they harvest it in Europe and North America that are highly tax organised, but evil people dont think that way. They prioritise evil. So the reason they are not speaking up may be sheer wickedness.

Richirich713:
Jewish accounts are honest really?

The Jews wrote done scriptures of the bible, but when it comes from the bible suddenly Jews are no longer trustworthy.

If you know any reasons why Jews, the only eye witnesses will want to lie against Jesus, do share it.

oglalasioux:
Got your replies. Sorry I couldn't answer the last three questions because I ran out of battery power. Your responses are educative but it's obvious that you didn't take time to examine mine. I fully understand your fear lest you offend your God if you look objectively to my answers. It's therefore not necessary for me to answer the rest of the questions when I know you'll never find any iota of sense in it. I'll however reiterate that there is a God behind the design of the universe. But it is not that God that is behind the religions. Religion is a criminal thing devised by people who had the opportunity to know the electromagnetic field of the universe. They've held us gullible people for eons. In a hundred years from now, your churches and mosques will be empty. No one will pray or praise a God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. It will be praises to the God who revealed Himself to Copernicus,Galileo, Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, Einstein and Higgs. God cannot speak to us through the bible. God's language is mathematics. Thanks.

I wish I knew more of the mysteries to answer properly but from the little I know, God's language is not mathematics. There are beings on the other side trying to talk to us, the headship of the other side is God. The other side is the real thing while this world is like an image of that other side. To people who have developed spiritually enough, communication with the other world or God/Olodumare is almost as hitchfree as communicating with other people. Using the power is thesame way for them.

2prexios:
People used o ti shi to mean she has become skin burnt when I was growing up. Then bleaching seems to be the fad.

So if someone those women used to know fall into bad time and were not able to keep toning, they become blackened.

if they come around later on in their new look, once they are gone, the women start saying

'a beeri 'ya lagbaja? O ti shi!'
'shi', as used here mean blackened.

The ancient Yoruba were familiar with several skin hue, but our forebears scarcely entertained such knowledge.

Take amosun for instance, it means 'a mo sun' this means 'originally white but tanned'. Sun is burnt, isn't it?

Amo is the Opposite of Osi. Clean is mimo, it also stand for fair skin with the ancient Yoruba, whiteskin is ofun.

The Yoruba speaks of Olokun as 'amo lowo, a mo lese, a mo timo timo' Olokun belonged to white Yoruba.

The verse on Olokun in IFA was set to 'Odu Ofun', o fun is a form of 'o-fun-fun', la-fun (a richly white substant).

And from there comes efun (chalk). People with this name also reminiscent the fact of the racial diversity in Yoruba.

A good hero of the white is Ela, hence it is said efunyela, meaning the white befits Ela. Then Odubela 'black begot Ela'

As to racial diversity, Yoruba language described all shades of pigmentations known to us. We are the ones to learn.

No student teach a teacher emeritus.

You are talking like a non native speaker shi (mi) is the one you are talking about and shi (doh) is the one in oshi meaning poverty. They are totally different. The Odu Ofun is talking about giving in my opinion. Ofun means giver. And Odu Ofun meji talks about Obatala who is seen as benevolent but I am not an expert. Efun is chalk, so it may mean chalk of any colour but mainly white chalk. Funfun is white. Efunyela will mean Wealth goes along with the white chalk. The white chalk represents a deity that was much reverred in the past, it may be Obatala.

That expression O ti shi used in that context have never been encountered by me. That is not a common Yoruba expression. O ti bo ra is used to mean bleaching.

oglalasioux:
The writer of this post is not only a genius but should not be afraid of any repercussions because there's not gonna be any. This is the truth. The worst thing mankind has ever invented is religion especially Christianity and Islam. Together they have caused more wars and unnecessary deaths and suffering than all natural disasters put together. Very good research.

Thanks for the compliment. God bless you

Nimrod was an ancestor of the man who arrived Ife in the 7th century and was made King. Many ancient pre Mohammedan Kings in the middle East traditionally claim descent from Nimrod, that would include people like Nebuchadnezzar. Apparently a Prince or the King of 7th century Mecca arrived in Ife and was made King there. The Ifa oracle had earlier predicted his arrival.

Sarassin:
I quite agree that Jewish writings do present a more reliable source, quite often the Christian texts are shown to be unreliable or quasi-historical at best. For instance in the example you mentioned above, the slaughter of the innocents, we know from contemporary historical accounts that the story is based on the murderous Herod who had his own children killed. The story was developed by the author of Matthew simply to fulfill the prophecies of Hosea and Jeremiah.

Nevertheless, the story of Pantheras was never fully developed, even in the Talmud and there are of course issues with Rabbinical writings as it depended largely on the prevailing school of Rabbinical thinking. The fact that Pantheras was reportedly a Roman soldier is hugely significant.

The Rabbinical writings are enough, they tell us what we need to know about Isa bin Pantheras who was never of any note for almost a century after his exit. Then we should see the Jewish establishment as people who tried their best to stop heresy. They had no reason to hate on Jesus or form stories about him. It was their job to curb heretic teachings which they did the way they knew best. Their accounts are more reliable.

^^Let's move farward. The Yoruba ancestors were not blacks, thats my opinion. I'm entitle to that. Meanwhile this fact was not discuss in any Yoruba tradition because Yoruba metamophoused to being blacks over a long stretch of time. If we understood 'shi' as darkened or weathered, then the word 'ako-si-bero' gave us an idea of 'wholesale blackness' that the emigrants experienced as a resault of resettlement. The veiled enigma behind the word is, Yoruba language is conscious of such change. Now to me, the word shi is my princess, if I don't adore this word, I would be incapable of conceiving the notion that Yoruba use to be non-black. i don't have the luxury of aclaiming whatever cross my mind, but the few incredible claims i holds may not have obvious anchor than to one Yoruba impounderable word and then my instinct. i can't make my reader buy my argument and i wont throw out my princess to please anyone.

How is oshi (doh doh) is poverty. Shi (mih) is peel off or uncover as in Month shi abo I uncovered the plate or O shi m o mi lara It stained me not black at all.

The only point you made that I can see was on another thread about the saying owo orisa la fi nwo aafin. We respect an albino with the respect due an orisa and many of our founding fathers were orisa. I don't understand your point about the word shi as iy does not mean black. Words for a poor man includes akuuse, otosi and etc. Poverty is ise (do mi) or oshi (do do) they don't mean black.

Sarassin:
@Lawani.

Just on the ben Pantheras issue, I think that the infancy stories as contained in the books of Matthew and Luke are essentially made up, it should be clear that the author of Matthew is trying to place Jesus of Nazareth in a particular lineage and Luke simply embellishes the whole idea. The very first gospel, being the author of Mark does not provide any details of the infant Jesus nor does the author of John. Considering that the book of Matthew was likely written around 85CE or thereabouts it therefore follows that early Christians who had only the early writings of Mark around 65CE to follow would have had no idea that Jesus of Nazareth was born of a virgin.

The story of Pantheras is really striking, as you pointed out it obtains in the Jewish Talmud, I am also aware it is contained in a very rare Samaritan Midrash. I would point out that the writings were of those who had good reason to reject the divinity and Messiahship of Jesus of Nazareth, therefore in my view the story of Pantheras, as well as the infancy gospels of Matthew and Luke are likely false.

Interesting point you make about the use of magic ritual, any student of Qabbalah will recognize immediately what was going on in the scene where Jesus reputedly writes in the sand, and evades capture. I am amazed it was retained in the texts

I would say that a significant amount of the stories attributed to Jesus of Nazareth are a conflation of various first and second century bearers of the same name for instance, Jesus ben Ananias, who wailed about the impending destruction of the temple of Jerusalem, and various other “Messiahs”. Of particular interest is, Jesus ben Sapphias, leader of the Galillean boatmen and party of the poor who poured out their blood until the whole of the sea of Galilee ran red.

Despite the fact that Jewish institutions prosecuted Jesus, they remain the most reliable sources of imformation about Jesus. There may be overstatements even errors but their positions are more factual and more reliable than any other. Only Jews were there, no Christians and Muslims. Jesus was one of them, he identified with them and is their property. The Bible account is fraudulent, take for instance, the claim that Herod ordered all baby boys to be killed. That is in the Bible, brazenly put there and IT NEVER HAPPENED. History would not have missed such an event. Pontius Pilate, Herod and all the players have records of their admin that is well known. So it is Biblical accounts that has been proven fraudulent. Jewish accounts are honest even if not accurate.

Living things dont evolve. All specie are bound by their DNA given to them by God. They will never move out of that boundary given any length of time unless there is another intervention by the creator to create another specie. If you think evolution is real, its like believing first generation computers will become Artificial intelligence units on their own and that is not possible. The fact that we cant see the other world does not mean it is not there. That world is a replica of our world. We are like images. What statues are to us is what we are to God.

This is not an atheist versus theist post. My ancestors were not atheists and I am not one. I am an Aborisha one who is always ready to worship anyone and anything. Do not reduce this post to an atheist versus theist debate. Thanks. There is God but that God is not the beast Christians and Muslims are portraying him to be. I am relaying real accounts that can be independently verified on google without you spending money or moving an inch. Those accounts are more original and more authentic than your Bible account that will tell you Herod ordered babies to be killed when nothing like that happened. May God guide us aright. Ase.

Scholar8200:
Indeed the pharisees are not all dead. The op has given us a sophisticated rendition of one of the many false accusations against the LORD JESUS CHRIST. When even Pilate penetrated the diaphanous veneer of religion and patriotism displayed by the accusers and saw that they were motivated by ENVY!

There was a real need to keep toxic beliefs at bay just like that need exists now, it existed back then. Humans can be very fickle minded, impressionable and etc, see the monster religion has become. So the Jews were right and people really should not be allowed to be hypnotising others with charms and etc with some learned tricks. The romans being polytheists, laughed it off but the Jews saw the vision of the confusion such egotistic claims of being God or son of God can bring with it and they were right. We are all equal. No one is anything other people are barred from.

Richirich713:
What copies of the Quran?

I Ask cuz it looks like u just make claim after claim without any evidence.

You can also research for yourself. Everything is at your fingertips. When you become free is when you realise God is not a mad man.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216627/Koran-Birmingham-thought-oldest-world-predate-Prophet-Muhammad-scholars-say.html

ayoola2002:
@OP, U r a fo ol, stop posting wht u dont know, there is a surat in Quran call Mariam (mary). She is a blessed woman, mind u am, am a muslim by birth, believe in Jesus Christ ( Isa). Merry Xmas

If you have been following the news sir, you would have known that Quran copies were found that were dated to when Mohammed was around 5 years old. For a man that killed a man and raped his wife thesame day, attacked people for not following his procedure of worship, plagiarism would be a virtue. Isn't it self evident that the Quran is not an original work? Given that it is based on the Jewish and Christian narratives with negligible originality? Cool down, no need to be scared stiff of hell fire. Don't take God for a mad man.

THE STORY OF JESUS CHRIST
A certain young lady in Israel named Mary who was probably less than 15 years of age at that time, was betrothed to a much older man named Joseph, a man that was probably around 70 years of age at the time, after a fashion still practiced today in some cultures where older men marry little girls young enough to be their granddaughters. Mary was bethrothed to Joseph and Joseph was away on a journey, by the time Joseph returned to formalise and climax his marriage, he found Mary to be evidently with child. Being a gentleman, his disposition was to quietly put her away, but then it may have meant that the poor girl would be stoned to death for adultery according to Jewish law, so Joseph accepted to take her in with the child. Afterall, what is the big deal in taking in and caring for a young girl who is pregnant. It really means nothing to an old man. So he married Mary who gave birth to a baby boy she named a name like Yeshua or its representation in the Bible, Joshua as Y and J are interchangeable in the Aramaic just like in Yahweh and Jehovah.

The story would have ended there but such stories never end there because of onlookers consisting of friends, family and neighbours of Joseph and Mary who were all there when a certain Roman soldier was flirting with the young Mary, when Joseph returned to take his wife and met her in an unmistakeable state of pregnancy. They knew he agreed to marry her to cover her shame and they knew the name of Yeshua's biological father, a Roman soldier named Pantheras who was later re-posted to Europe. There are many interesting theories about the identity of this Pantheras which I will not go into here.

As would be expected, Yeshua grew to become a man and he found out that he was born out of wedlock, according to Jewish accounts, he travelled to Egypt and learnt magical powers which Egyptians pride themselves on possessing. An account said he had incisions on his body, of initiations into Egyptian cults or fraternities. He returned to Israel and became a preacher, preaching doctrines the Jews considered as heretic, concepts gotten from Egypt which he attempted to fuse into Judaism, some accounts claim him and his followers were sometimes violent. In the Bible accounts, he equated himself with God, pointing out to his followers that his mother was impregnated by God, that he was greater than David, Moses and etc and one with God. The Bible recorded four instances when mobs picked up stones to stone him to death but he always escaped in strange ways until he was reported to the Roman authourities by the Jews on a charge of inciting the people according to some accounts. The Roman authourities examined him and were favourably disposed to releasing him but the Jewish authourities would have none of that, so the Romans delivered him to them and the Jews convicted him of blasphemy or heresy. Some accounts say he escaped to India, others say to Germany and that he married Mary Magdalene and one other woman later, gave birth to three children and died at over 70 years of age. In the Talmud, written in the first century, Jesus Christ is consistently referred to as ben Pantheras, meaning son of Pantheras or ben Stada after maybe his mother's family.

Meanwhile after his exit or supposed execution, depending on who you listen to, his followers insisted he had risen from the dead and that they had seen him, it became a big problem. Rising from the dead was not new in Israel, some earlier Messiahs had thesame claim made of them. Messiahs are men who Jews believe will restore the dignity and independence of their nation by freeing them from Gentile rule. A certain Messiah named Simon from Peraea, modern day Jordan was crushed by the Roman General Varus who decapitated him and left his body to rot in a gully. His followers maintained he rose up again spiritually after three days. That was thesame tradition adopted by Jesus' followers after his exit which became a problem for those who thought they had seen the end of the matter by executing him or chasing him away from Israel as the case may have been.

The followership began to spread, first among Jews, then among the Gentiles. The educated Romans initially viewed everything as funny Jewish superstitions but by a few centuries, the Emperor of Rome, Constantine, converted to Christianity as the religion of the followers of Yeshua was then called, a name derived from Christ which means 'perfect son of God'. The early Christians in Antioch lived a communal life, shared things among themselves and approached others respectfully, so the Hellenistic people called them Christians. There are still groups that approximate that appellation today and there must have been pre Yeshua groups similarly named by Hellenistic or Kemitic people in the past. In the few centuries preceding the conversion of Emperor Constantine, Christians were executed for blasphemy all over the places they spread to. Ethiopia, Egypt, Rome and etc. Almost all the Apostles were executed for one reason or the other in places as far flung as Ethiopia and Rome, Egypt and probably India.

With Constantine who converted because he won a battle after being consecrated by a Christian priest, Christianity got the backing of Rome and after centuries of perseverance, the hunted became the hunter with the creation of the Roman Catholic church. In Europe, people were converted at sword point, people who refused baptism were slaughtered in Saxony and etc. People caught with wiccan tools were burnt at the stake by 'saints' who were essentially psychopaths. Over 100 thousand people were burnt at the stakes in this manner in Europe. There were various Christian sects with mildly varying doctrines, all illogical doctrines granting special status of son of God to Yeshua. Constantine wanted uniformity, so they summoned a conference in Nice, to iron out issues among the various denominations in Europe, Asia and North Africa. It was agreed that Yeshua is one with God and not separate. The God is a trinity in a triune Godhead. The Son died for all sins and etc and this is what anyone needs to believe, so as to be saved and if you don't give your life to Jesus and become a believer, you will be burnt in hell forever by God. This heresy was not to be preached as absolute truth to only certain families but to any stranger they meet. Those who disagree, any layman, who raises an objection should be put to the sword. It was a major milestone for the demonic forces who set everything in motion. It was also these conferences that fixed the new name of the messiah as Jesus Christ, a name never borne by any Jew till date, his date of birth, Christian holidays, new embellishments in the messiah story like Herod killing all male newborns and many other embellishments to make it rhyme with histories of some popular human deities like Apollo, Hercules, Osiris and a host of others. Readers can research for themselves.

After ravaging Europe and turning the spirituality of the place upside down, indoctrinated Europeans carried the scourge to Africa many centuries later, along with the industrial revolution as the driver, and here we are today. It is said that Christianity provided moral and financial support to Mohammed who established Islam as a means of phasing out Christian enclaves who can not be coerced into thesame doctrinal beliefs as the Roman Catholics since they were not under either the Roman or Byzantine empires and their armies. So rather than watch them preach a Jesus that does not conform to standard, they were given a new religion complete with a new saviour in Islam and Mohammed.

The summary of it all is that being born out of wedlock is never enough reason to claim you are God or son of God. Jesus or Yeshua definitely knew he was not anything that others are barred from. He had masters who trained him in the art of magic. He learned at the feet of people. So he erred and greatly so by claiming to be God. A claim which has set nations against nations, brethren against brethren, led to the killing of millions of innocents, all over God, the father of all that was never the cause of any war before then. Killing people over God or converting people to a spiritual path by force was something that never happened on any significant scale anywhere in the world prior to Christianity.

God created us all with complete cultures and spiritualities to live in harmony with ourselves and with foreign cultures without any group attempting to lord it over the other or claiming the high ground. There used to be wars but fought for other reasons apart from God. As a result of Yeshua's activities, our society on the globe has gone many steps backwards and it is time to retrace our step.

If one nation is successful and has become an immigrant worker destination while another remains in a cess pool of backwardness, corruption, nepotism and etc. It is often as a result of inferiority complex in the backward nation because all humans are thesame and no excuses suffices for one people to be able to build their nation while another group find such a simple task just short of impossible.


There was a time after the fall of the Roman empire, that West Africa was more advanced than Europe, also more organised and that is only a few centuries back. So why should a nation like Nigeria in West Africa, be run down and the people scattered in the 21st century? There may be some other causative factors but the main causative factor is inferiority complex. Good visionary leaders like the stuff that made up the old Action Group can easily end such, the way the People's Action Congress in Singapore turned Singapore into an industrialized modern nation at the forefront of human development within a few decades from a condition at par with pre independence Nigeria in the 1960s. Such is replicable anywhere in the world. With visionary leadership, the whole world would have been like Singapore. Without Nigeria, Western Nigeria would have been like Singapore.

The sing song in Nigeria is corruption, corruption and corruption. Corruption is an ongoing affair even inside individuals. You have to keep fighting the devil within you forever, non stop. So no big deal about corruption. Corruption is never the problem. Just a symptom of a bad system of depending on unearned money. In simple language, if the government has to run around to collect money from workers before they can see even one kobo to spend, then they will automatically cater for the economy inside which those workers work NO MATTER HOW CORRUPT THE LEADERS OF THE GOVERNMENT ARE.

Also, if all the government has to do is to wait for alerts signifying that money has been paid into government coffers by oil exploration companies, then the default setting of the leaders of such a government that do not need the people to raise money will be at best a lackadaisical attitude towards the internal economy, comprising of the workers and economic actors, since these people are not the source of government income and such a government will be corrupt NO MATTER HOW HARD THE LEADERS TRY.

So the simple antidote for corruption is to attach government finances directly to the economy, to the millions of workers, the government must stay clear of depending on free or unearned money. Use only money that would not be there if the people are not there. Everything will then fall in place. So the problem is systemic. It is also a leadership problem because why are you a leader if you can not think this through? That is the only reason it can be seen as a leadership problem.

Chief Awolowo took a position on the issue back as far back as 1967 when he said Nigeria is headed towards an oil doom.

A popular adage says 'Ko s i eni ti ko le jale bi ile ba da' meaning anyone can steal if they are the only one in the house or if there is ample opportunity. Corruption is a bad side of human nature, it is nothing strange. So, to be going about degrading yourself, your country men and people as morally bankrupt and corrupt is wrong. It is reverse racism and inferiority complex. This is what many Nigerians, home and abroad indulge in, including the President.

Many European nations are rated same with Nigeria on corruption, yet they are contributing their quota to human development while their people are not scattered all over the world as economic refugees the way Nigerians are.

The fight against corruption within us as individuals and in our society must continue and in the particular case of Nigeria, assets must be recovered as promised but CORRUPTION IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH NIGERIA and if there is no way forward, the country ought to be disbanded, so that the citizens can live in peace in new nations under governments and leaderships that may respect them.

There is nothing a human can do that AI can not do if well programmed, even humans are programmed, we are born into a culture, learn language, learn from others then form a character, the basis of our dealings with others. People form a variety of characters. Many are foolish, treating others like tools, others are wise, treating others like equals, many are inbetween. If there are no secrets at all, character of people will tend towards the character of a wise man, if it is easy to be shady, some people will choose the ignoble path of foolishness. Computers can be programmed in thesame manner. I meet a humanoid computer connected to the internet, it takes my picture and scans its memory for a replica, finds one, checks the name it is stored under, then reads it out Hello Mr Akin, you are from Ilesha, we have met two times. I said yes. It then asks, what can I do for you?. I then say pls I need information about so and so, it scans its memory and comes up with answers and explanations. You can program self preservation into it as even humans are not born with self preservation, babies play rough with knives and guns and do injure themselves. You can program basically anything. Love, hate jealousy, pride and etc. With elaborate programming, it can be human. Definitely so. Learn like human and be able to divert resources to preserve itself. It wouldn't need telepathy as it an connect with its kind via the internet but I do not know if it will be able to do other things humans do like magic, levitation and many other claims that have been demonstrated and those are just like a tip of the iceberg!

Then we are here to play God. What is wrong with playing God?

There is nothing a human can do that AI can not do if well programmed, even humans are programmed, we are born into a culture, learn language, learn from others then form a character, the basis of our dealings with others. People form a variety of characters. Many are foolish, treating others like tools, others are wise, treating others like equals, many are inbetween. If there are no secrets at all, character of people will tend towards the character of a wise man, if it is easy to be shady, some people will choose the ignoble path of foolishness. Computers can be programmed in thesame mann

macof:
How do you know Oduduwa mentioned Nimrod? How come Ife chiefs don't know any Nimrod?
What are you saying? Oduduwa was arab but had no Arabian influence Wtf!

Btw I think I've told you once before that there's no proof a "Nimrod" existed. Ninurta is the Summerian deity of hunt and war. ..similar to what yoruba see as Ogun. The patron City of Ninurta is what the arabs call "Namrud" . The genesis authors were just ignorant of what they were trying to copy from the Mesopotamian nations. .hence to the hebrews "Nimrod" became a great hunter warrior who established Summer

The Lamurudu as father of Oduduwa story is part of Yoruba oral history passed down by state funded institutions ie griots. Nimrod is Namurudu is Lamurudu to a Yoruba, that is the Yoruba interpretation. Please read up about Nimrod and form your opinion about if he ever existed, its like wanting to know if Ogun ever existed just that Nimrod is much more recent than the first Ogun. Then people like Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon was an Arab ancestor and can not be said to be Arab in the modern sense of it not to talk of Nimrod that was much farther back. Nebuchadnezzar would see himself as a descendant of Nimrod the first post flood King of Sumeria. I believe a pre Mohammedan Meccan monarch too is likely to see himself as a Nimrod descendant which is why Oduduwa mentioned the name to Ife people. Apart from that one mention, I have never heard any other mention in Yoruba folklore, the griots passed on the name simply because Oduduwa especially instructed them to do that, knowing debates will come up about his origin in future. The Yoruba calendar is 10059 this year, we came from nobody but like others we are a mixture of everybody. Of all calendars, the Ife calendar is the senior.

Some Yoruba became Muslims and a Yoruba town Ilorin actually has no Egungun, a place like Iwo used Sharia but no Yoruba town from Jebba in Niger state to Lagos was under Jihadists in the late 19th century. All were under Yoruba but some parts were carved into the Northern region like the Igbomina, some Ekiti, Ilorin, Oworo, Okun and etc but they are no less Yoruba, same with others in parts of West Africa. Then the Yoruba were not actually conquered. There was a 16 year long civil war which the British settled by signing protection agreements with all parties. No fault of Olodumare there. Olodumare does not interfere in human affairs really. It is us with our ancestors, irunmales and orisas using the resources of Olodumare. On Europeans colonising us, it is Eni yara ni Ogun ngbe. Ogun will assist anyone with initiative. Ase.

amor4ce:
I still insist that our people forgot ELEDUMARE's personal name. Eledumare is a title/appellation just like that of Yoruba kings e.g. Alaketu of Ketu, Elepe of Epe, Oniru of Iru,Olubadan of Ibadan, etc.

I will not say Olodumare is not a title, I have thought so myself but Ologotun is also a title of Olodumare as Olu of Ogotun after which an Ekiti town and another town in Edo state is named.

DNA studies show we had thesame ancestors which implies they spoke thesame language, how we now have totally dissimilar languages all over the world is a riddle that may never be solved. At least names of basic things should have remained similar, dialectical differences developing into new languages that are structurally different is hard to explain. Some having genders, others being genderless and etc. There are many defining characters of languages with which they are classified. It appears relatively undisturbed languages retain tones and if a non tonal language is left undisturbed for thousands of years, it may develop accent, then tones, returning it to the natural state which is the tonal language. Most languages in Europe have lost their tones while many in Asia and Africa remain tonal. Ancient Greek was written like modern Yoruba, that is, with diacritical marks, for being a tonal language. Modern Greek is not even tonal. I believe this is true for all European languages.

Language is often not a true determinant of what a people are. Take Northern Nigeria for example where most of them speak Hausa, an Afro Asiatic language not known to their ancestors. Kano is said to have spoken a Niger Congo language in the past, maybe Nupoid but they now speak Hausa. This is according to a report I read.

The Yoruboid people of Igala, Yoruba, Itsekiri and Ebu may not have spoken their present languages in the past as up to half of their present vocabulary is derived from the language spoken in Kemitic Egypt of over 5000 years ago. The other parts coming from Nupe, Igbo, Edo, Afemai, Urhobo, Hausa and etc. The language has now come into its own but its origin is worth investigating. It is noteworthy that Kemitic Egyptian is not classified as Yoruboid or even Niger Congo despite the similarity with the Yoruboid group. The Igboid group that shares basic words with Yoruba as shown in Prof Bolaji Aremo's book 'How Yoruba and Igbo became different languages' is also not classified as Yoruboid. Language classification appears to be a bit ambiguous. The Fulani language is classified with Igbo, Yoruba and etc as Niger Congo and indigenous to Africa while the Hausa language is classified as Afro Asiatic. Its characteristic of having genders amongst other characteristics separates it from most other Nigerian languages.
It appears that if pidgin English is left for a few thousand years, it will probably be classified as Niger Congo. That appears to be the way language classification goes on.

So language often is acquired along the line and is never a true determinant of what a people are. Abraham would not understand a single word of any of the Semitic tongues for instance, neither would Moses, yet Moses would relate well with Jewish customs and traditions and Abraham would understand why Jews are fixated on Palestine. Abraham spoke the Sumerian language spoken in Iraq or Southern Arabia which is now extinct today, though some say the language is an archaic form of the Indian Tamil. Moses spoke a form of archaic Yoruba spoken in Kemitic Egypt. Modern Jews speak Hebrew, Arabic and Yiddish. Yet it can not be denied that Moses and Abraham are their people.

As examples of Kemitic Egyptian in Yoruboid languages or modern Ife language in Kemitic Egypt, modern Yoruba words like suegbe-fool, ekun-strong man, lareja-knowledge, mo-know, odun-festival and thousands of others were used in thesame way in Kemitic Egypt. You can research on google and elsewhere for more examples. Presently I do not know whether to say those words or our present language came from Kemitic Egypt or that we were speaking thesame language from the onset but the Awos do agree that we used to have another language, maybe the Akokoid languages in the past. One Awo I heard on radio stated an example by saying a house was called Arigidi in the past but Ile today.

As a similar example of language acquisition, the British are over 70 percent Celtic by genetic composition, but they speak a Germanic language originating from Germany. Their genetic makeup shows that at a point newly arrived ethnic Germans settled on the British isles to make the place around 30 percent Germanic by population, discounting polygamy by the newly arrived Germans but for one reason or the other, the whole population adopted the language of the new arrivals which has now become English. The remaining Celtic languages are totally different from English. Something similar may have happened in Yoruba land.

The lesson in this is that language is a part of culture and you are probably not speaking what your ancestors spoke but it is not the sole determinant of what a people are. For example, if many people you trade with, speak a particular language in your markets, you will eventually learn that language in your town, then start using it as a second language which may lead to subsequent generations forgetting the original language of their ancestors. Nigerians now use English as a result of such an effect, up to the early 19th century, the most popular European language in Nigeria was Portuguese.

In central Europe, like in Central Nigeria, people speak a variety of languages. A Swiss might speak German, English and some other languages. A Pole might speak German, Russian, Polish and others just like most Nupe speak Nupe, Hausa, Yoruba, English and one or two other. Some Okun Yoruba speak Yoruba, Ebira, English and one or two other. Many languages are being lost and have been lost but it will be good to have the world in as natural a state as possible by preserving cultures and languages while people learn lingua francas like English for the purpose of communicating with others, No reason why anyone should not be able to speak 3 to 5 languages including their cultural language.

If not for religions, human culture across the globe are basically thesame, much like saying thesame thing in different languages.

macof:
ok so no people are isolated means that oduduwa (a Meccan, according to you) had a Sumerian ancestor he always introduced as his father?

But why is yoruba culture short of arab influence? The Obaship is nothing like what came out of the Arab world... can you explain that?
AS My brother 9jacrip has said.. there's a school of thought that Oduduwa was from Oke Ora area. .

Nimrod was an ancestor of Arabs, not an Arab in the modern sense of the word. Those people, ancient Arabs were more like ancient Celts or ancient Yoruba people or modern non religious Yoruba people. All peoples were basically thesame under God and Ife people believed fervently that all humans are their long lost brothers, so no qualms about making an Indian, Russian, Chinese or Celt a King in Ife. Their outlook to life was different from the modern way. Oduduwa mentioned Nimrod, the way you will mention Oduduwa today, to fellow Meccans he would have mentioned the name of his direct father. Oduduwa had no Arab/Muslim influence and any influence he brought was absorbed into the much older Ife sedentary culture.

It is known by language and DNA that the bulk of the people in the South African region came from the Central African region fairly recently and South Africa is not like Europe, being alike is not only by temperature. No two regions are alike. And it is the habitat, that region that changes people to be what they are. Thus Negroes in Mongol regions will become Mongols after long enough. Caucasians in Africa will become Negroid even without inter marriage. Let me say what I know about the Australoids, they were among the first set to leave Africa and are among the most distantly related to Africans. They were Africans, then Europeans, Asians, then Australoids. So they had black, white and then black again ancestors. They are more related to Europeans than Africans despite being black.

macof:
Well, being yoruba and having learned much about the ancient Egyptians I can say I've realized a few cultural similarities but nothing strong enough to suggest an Egyptian origin for yorubas. .
if Anything, due to the timeline (most of these similarities occur in pre-dynastic Upper egypt)
I'll say Yoruba culture birthed the Egyptians. ...but of course, experts point to modern Eritrea as the origin of the Egyptians. So you would have to do a lot to prove that Yoruba had a part in the Egyptian Civilization

Going by calendars, the present Ife calendar predates Egypt by around 5 thousand years but it appears many ancient Egyptians relocated to Southern Nigeria because Yoruboid tongues share like 50 percent of their vocabulary with Kemitic Egypt of 5 thousand years ago which technically means it was thesame language since language normally changes with time accounting for the change over 5000 years.

As examples, modern Yoruba words like suegbe-fool, ekun-strong man, lareja-knowledge, mo-know, odun-festival and thousands of others were used in thesame way in Kemitic Egypt. You can research on google and elsewhere for more examples. Presently I do not know whether to say those words or our present language came from Egypt or that we were speaking thesame language from the onset but the Awo agree that we used to have another language, maybe the Akokoid languages. As another example, the British are over 70 percent Celtic by genetic composition but they speak a Germanic language originating from Germany. Their genetic makeup shows that at a point newly arrived ethnic Germans settled on the British isles to make the place 30 percent Germanic by population and for one reason or the other, the whole population adopted their language which has now become English. The remaining Celtic languages are totally different from English. Something similar may have happened in Yoruba land.

macof:
. What is the oriki of Lamurudu. At least Oduduwa has an oriki, various shrines. ..a tomb in the care of Obadio
What links Lamurudu to yorubas? Apart From an obvious corruption of the Arabic "Namrud"

Lamurudu is not an orisa, he was a Sumerian, the name obviously was dropped by the Meccan as a signature to guide future generations wanting to know his origin. The name stands out like a sore thumb and has done the work for which it was intended. It has long being known that the Yoruba has non zero Neanderthal genetic component to the amazement of geneticist. The discovery of the remains of a man who lived around 4500 years ago in Ethiopia merely gave us a lead, a material to compare present day genes with. No people are isolated but some cultures are more recent than others.