₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Everything is intertwined, so I dont see the problem here. This is natural. This is the same way taking a certain drug can alter your mood or even temperament or even make you see things. Dopamine & Seratonin for example, are neurotransmitters that affect your state of mind. A deprived body would necessarily lack the physical energies required to hold the ghost within, and that ghost will bolt if a minimum threshold is not sustained.

What I want to know is what you mean by intertwined. How can taking a drug make you lose control of your body when there some independent aspect of you in control? How can sensory deprivation cause effects that soul cannot bypass? I am assuming you believe the will is housed in the soul so why does it get overridden by the body under the influence of chemicals and other external inputs (or lack thereof)?

DeepSight:
To a certain degree, this is unavoidable for virtually everyone everywhere.

If you see something, you experience something, you believe it, it is a fact for you. Someone else can ask you for evidence, and you simply cant provide same. Thus it is not a fact for that person, but it will always be a fact for you.

In this way, I have deliberately refrained from bringing up again many of the things that make me know for a fact that the soul is real. These include various paranormal experiences, relating which, would be useless to anyone who didnt experience same himself.

This is a good juncture for me to say something important to those who keep saying "provide your evidence" - as though this a a matter of science. It is not a matter of science. Science deals with the physical, the observable. This matter is beyond science. Asking one to "provide evidence" is much like asking a person to provide evidence that he dreamt about exactly what he said he dreamt about last night. The subject is simply not suited to the misplaced shouts to "provide evidence." Indeed anyone shouting this must have badly misconceived the subject altogether. It is not a Physics class.

This does not mean that I do not believe that there is indeed much evidence, in addition to that which may be sensibly inferred both logically and experientially.

This is the problem. You assert that you and I have something in common, souls, therefore there must be a way for us to both experience the same thing. You can't say you have a unique experience that I don't have and attribute it to souls, it doesn't cut it. If as you assert we all have souls then there must be a common denominator experience or whatever that we cal use to arrive at the same conclusion.

@DeepSight

I dunno if I have asked you this before but have at it if I haven't: why does sensory deprivation lead to psychological effects? How does having a soul explain this phenomenon?

DeepSight:
I can only render my personal perception in this regard and this is not evidence of anything to anyone. My perception is that the soul is the real inner being, the root personality that is you. Your mind is that property interwoven twixt your body and soul which enables your apprehension of the world, or your consciousness therein. It will house your day consciousness, your memories, thoughts et al. Your body, is, of course, your body, and is energized by your soul.

But you seem to treat your personal perception as fact!

DeepSight:
No one has ever denied that the mind, body and soul are interwoven.

Then how do you distinguish what is what? What are the soul's properties and functions?

DeepSight:
Well there is physical pain, loss of ability, limitation and probably also a sense of being hobbled in any respect. Why do you ask this. No one denies that the body is critical and that feelings are intermixed with its functions.

So you agree the mind and body are interwoven? If that is the case where does the soul come in? What it is functions? How is it independent from the body?

DeepSight:
Let me ask you a little question. Or rather, two little questions. They might seem strange, but bear with me.

1. In the absence of mirrors, do you believe men would lack self cognition.

2. In your dreams, do you ever see yourself? Think about this one carefully. I mean actually see a visual of yourself.

1. Mirrors are not the only way. You can see and recognise your own limbs and torso and even when blind your proprioception allows you to know your own body. The reason I used the mirror case is because it is the easiest to communicate.

2. Kind of, I see my body much the same way I do in RL. I sometimes do have flashes of my face surface in dreams but it's not a frequent occurrence.

justFEARLESS:
Hello Guys

I moved to a new apartment early last month, and everything has been fine; a friendly environment, nice amenities and all, but I have only one problem. In our compound, there is a building in front with three and 2-bedroom flats in front of the building my apartment is behind, and it has two rooms and a parlour self-con.

The issue is that the window of my room is directly opposite the window of the bedroom of the people living in the 2-bedroom flat in the building in front. They get a little bit too excited during sex which is like every day and multiple times during the night: yesterday, I entered the house around 9:30 pm, and I noticed they were at it (This one, they didn't even close their window), They were already done before I slept off like 30 mins later, but they woke me up with their weird noise around 1, and it was on like that for like 1 hour, I managed to sleep, but they started again around 4.....

I don't know if they are married(because they don't wear rings or dress like married people), but they are young and live together; alone, but I can't bear this everyday wailing again. So what do you feel is right? If I tell the landlord to correct them, they will still know I am the one that reported because of the proximity of our apartment, and if I try to reason with the guy, it will be somehow awkward because we are yet to really start greeting ourselves sef.

For the record, I am married and blessed with a child, but my family lives in a different city. I moved here because of a program I am running. I will be spending at least 2 weeks here every month. Our landlord doesn't stay in the same compound but stays on the same street.

I think you should speak to the guy in private first and if it doesn't abate then escalate to the landlord.

Freethought:
I have been on the same prepaid meter with my landlord since i came to this house 2 years ago, he charge 5k monthly for electricity and I've paid deligently for the past two years.

Last week Saturday he brought an electrician to the house to install the prepaid meter he got for both of us (me and the other tenant). We were not informed about this step until that saturday they brought the meter.

Long story short, we discovered there's a debt of 53k on the meter (estimated bill since he registered for the new meter)

Now, he's asking us to pay the bill ourselves since he collected the meter for us. Mind you, he never for once stopped collecting the 5k.

I want to believe one or two nairalanders have been through something similar to this, that's why I'm here to seek help on how to go about it.

Find out the duration or period of the said bill, was it before you were a tenant or after you became a tenant. Use this to prove that the bill is on the landlord's head.

DeepSight:
Very well.



I had to do a double take at this. No known proper understanding of the "self" will admit of this. The "self" is, in all serious schools, a deeper precept. Even within the psychology of the being, you have Freud's ID, Ego and Super Ego. And within that set up, only the ID is considered the real self. It is bizarre to me that you can describe a hand as part of the self. I can't relate with this kind of "self."



This statement is damning enough.



This is confusing and contradictory. A mind inhabiting a body cannot be said to be disembodied, can it?

I noticed you didn't answer this question: What do you think accounts for the kind of trauma people undergo from losing bodily functions? Can you give an answer to it?

DeepSight:
I had to do a double take at this. No known proper understanding of the "self" will admit of this. The "self" is, in all serious schools, a deeper precept. Even within the psychology of the being, you have Freud's ID, Ego and Super Ego. And within that set up, only the ID is considered the real self. It is bizarre to me that you can describe a hand as part of the self. I can't relate with this kind of "self."

You are funny. How can you recognize self without the body? When you look in the mirror or an image of yourself do you say that's my body or do you say that is me? There is no self without body, mind can not exist without body. They are inextricably linked. One of the ways of testing cognition is if the individual can self recognise in a mirror. Can a soul recognise itself without the body?

This statement is damning enough.

In what way?

This is confusing and contradictory. A mind inhabiting a body cannot be said to be disembodied, can it?

Well I have no other way to describe what you are trying to convey to me. You are telling me there is some independent component of the human that inhabits the human body. Though I made a mistake now that I recall you said soul was not mind so I should have said disembodied soul. Nevertheless how would you want me to refer to the independence of the soul from the body?

KnownUnknown:
Don’t worry I already supplied the answer. Frequency 1/137. Mass 1/137. Just don’t ask me to prove it. Lol

LoLz! I'm coming, I need to tune my soul spectrograph to those parameters. I hope my 1970's version is up to snuff. Bwahahahahahaha!

DeepSight:
So do you seriously propose, in line with the Chucky example, that you would consider it legitimate to inquire why computer software cannot function on a bare piece of wood or plastic? Seriously?

I did plead with you not to absurdify the discussion because that is very discouraging in terms of continuing the discourse.

You can't accuse me of absurdifying the discussion when you are the one who made the statement. It is up to you to clarify which you did so you can stop harping on that now.

Of course you have slapped me using your hand. And I have said repeatedly that that hand is a tool. And is it not?

It's more than a tool, it's a part of the self. It is a part of being. My hand has no autonomy apart from my own will, it's not a tool others can actively use without my participation.

Good. No so this again underscores the point that no one experiences themselves as a body. People experience themselves as an intangible person with a body.

I never said people experience themselves as only body. People experience themselves as a mind and body unit not as a disembodied mind inhabiting a body which is why feeling disconnected or disembodied is not viewed as normal. I think it would be far more normal to feel disembodied if humans were souls inhabiting a body.

I would consider that I have lost part of my body.

You are more stoic than most then. I for one would see at as a loss of part of my being. I have some lingering health effects from an illness and I know how it has affected my daily life not to talk of loosing a limb. I don't see how your sense of self remains unchanged with such changes to your body. What do you think accounts for the kind of trauma people undergo from loosing bodily functions?

A001:
Many waves will still be discovered with time. I'm not interested in any further discussion on the subject.

I've said enough.

That's OK but if ever this wavelength you speak of is calibrated do call my attention to it.

A001:
I don't know that. But I know the souls of humans have frequencies that lie within a certain range with upper and lower limits sufficiently out of the scope of the human eye and perception.

People operate at certain wavelengths, which can become manifest when two or more people agree on some issues.

I know that the soul exists because I've had many travels in my astral or soul body (known as spirit) where the soul floated out of the body.

That's a personal experience (lucid dreams involving flights) I've had countless number of times over the years, which occurred naturally without using any substance like psychedelic or entheogen.

That's from my personal experience.

Then based on my research which I engage in as a pedagogical effort to understand the soul, I know the soul exists as a wave because every matter has a wave aspect and a particle aspect via the wave-particle duality.

In the case of living things, this wave aspect is called the soul.

Well, you might not like that term anyway, but you can't deny the fact that every matter can behave as a wave sometimes and as a particle some other times.

Unless you understand what consciousness is deeply, you shouldn't say with certainty that the soul doesn't exist.

That the soul exists doesn't mean all the things said about it in various religious texts are true as many of them are based on superstition.

To understand reality deeply, one needs to be able to see things in terms of waves, energy, and frequency.

The atheist still needs to understand that there are still tons of mysteries in nature that scientists don't know yet before he makes certain claims with certainty.

We measure all sorts of wavelengths with instruments, why is this one eluding us?

What claim have I made with certain that is still a mystery? Are you sure you aren't talking about yourself?

aminulive:
https://politicsnigeria.com/breaking-dss-invites-fani-kayode-over-alleged-coup-plot-by-atiku/

Abeg goan siddon, you this political prostitute. As if we don't know your political history.

DeepSight:
This is too funny for me to properly respond to. I can only say that the fact that one believes in the existence of a soul does not mean that one subscribes to voodoo or magic. I will also plead with you not to absurdify the discussion. Because there is nothing wrong in saying that there are certain requirements for a body which a soul can inhabit, just as surely as there are certain requirements for the sort of computer hardware that the software can operate in. You are virtually asking why computer software cannot operate on a bare piece of plastic or wood.

Well if you see absurdity then maybe you should address it because it's coming directly from what you said. You said: Mere matter is dead. You provided no distinction.

Basically you provide no way to distinguish between operations of body with soul and operations of body without soul. You believe there's a soul, I don't, you provide nothing that can help us know who is correct in this matter.

This is my personal perception. Just as the software which may be required to operate a small machine like a Gameboy will be different from that required to operate Deep Blue or a Space Mission. In the same way, the intangible software of an ant is unlikely to be of the same cadre as that of a man. Again, just my personal perception.

So again adds nothing to aid us in determining if souls exist.

You dont see your hand, for example, as a part of your inner personality. It is a tool, and you know it.

Still don't understand what you mean. If I slap you across the face with my hand would you say it was my hand that slapped you or I who slapped you?

Frankly, I dont even think it is possible to conceive of one existing at all without the fundamental inner aspect of being.
Without that, everything physical would at once be meaningless.

Not sure how this addresses what I asked. Why do you think we would only experience ourselves as brains only if souls didn't exist? Brains can't even feel themselves so I puzzled why you said "Not even as a brain, no."

You would address it as "me" or "I".
But there is a sense of ownership over it by your inward mind, and thus you will see it as "yours" - - - you will address it as "my" body.

Not seeing the distinction. Body is part of identity. If your hand was amputated would you not consider that you have lost part of yourself?

nevana:
sorry bout that. May God give you the fortitude to bear the Loss.

Stay strong.

Thank you, you are so kind.

nevana:
honestly, very sad loosing a child.

U seem to know Gamine quite well, are you related?

Yes we were related.

A001:
Yes. Reality is multidimensional (not just four dimensional) existing in layers just like an onion has layers. The soul is the innermost layer or the core of a living being with the outermost layer (the body) a mere projection of the soul.

Applying the concept of wave-particle duality to a human (as an example of matter), the soul is a distinct kind of wave or radiation that vibrates at a specific range of frequencies in higher dimensions with the body (particle) its spatio-temporal (4D) component or projection.

The soul exists, but it's one of the vast amount of things that are filtered out by our sense organs from our perception. Thus, we're only aware of minute aspects out of the vast amount of information (data) in our surroundings.

Due to these natural limits, there are many waves (such as the soul), particles, and radiations in our immediate surroundings we can't see or hear.

What frequency does the soul vibrate at?

jaephoenix:
@ the bolded. Some schizophrenic and manic patients have described themselves as such. There's a reason they are mentally unbalanced

Exactly. Feelings of disembodiment are not seen as normal nor are they even the general perception amongst most people.

DeepSight:
This is still weird. A body consists of chemical functions. Unless you are speaking of a rubber doll, what we are talking about by definition consists of chemical functions. So your question, via a loose analogy, sounds like asking if a man can drive a car that has no engine. By definition, cars have engines. This does not mean that men do not drive cars.

Save this, your suggestion would amount to suggesting that a soul should be able to power a rubber doll and bring it to life, abracadabra, without any chemical processes. My brother, with respect, what you would then be looking for is Chucky or Chucky's bride.

When we say that a soul indwells a body, there are existential, experiential, philosophical and scientific questions at play. We are not suggesting the sort of magic you allude to here whereat one seeks Chucky.

You are very correct, soul should be able to possess a Chucky type doll. In fact soul should be able to possess any matter for that matter. (Pun intended) Based on your assertion that dead matter needs soul to live, why can't any matter suffice?

Every living thing has some level of soul or the other however minute or differentiated in terms of specie.

So souls have levels and what distinguishes these levels?

No one experiences themselves as a body. We experience ourselves as a personality, as a personal being, and as a living and feeling mind. Not even as a brain, no.

Of course, we feel our body, but this is always a question of my body, or your body. You see that? - There is a sense of ownership. It is a thing that we experience ownership of. It is quite external to our sense of personality and personhood.

I don't understand what you mean by "We experience ourselves as a personality, as a personal being, and as a living and feeling mind." As far as I know we don't see ourselves as only disembodied minds, we see ourselves as both mind and body.

And why would you think we would only experience ourselves as a brain if souls don't exist?

As opposed to what? If you assumed there was no soul how would we address our bodies if not "my body"?

DeepSight:
This an an odd question. Or perhaps you have phrased it oddly. For no one who believes in the existence of the soul says this. Chemical functions, as you know, continue even when the body is six feet under! - Through the process of decomposition!

What people who believe in the existence of a soul say is different and simple - that the soul exists beyond and after the death of body. This is because the body is seen as a mere physical tool for the soul. I personally see it as a clothing. An advanced biological one, yes, but a covering all the same.

When one looks at all the senses, this becomes very obvious. They exist evidentially to serve, not themselves, but to serve a being.

Another thing - and this I would have liked to mention to KnownUnknown also, save that I got tired very quickly when he said that I believe everything, hook line and sinker. This is the thing - the experiential factor. None of us experiences ourselves as a body. We simply do not. We experience ourselves as a being, a being with a body.

Save one wishes to say that the brain is the being - and this is a very vexatious thing to argue - virtually every single part of the body can be replaced and the being remains. In fact, much can happen to the brain itself and the being remains. The precise physical seat of consciousness is not known and this is partly why we still have the hard question of consciousness.

There are obviously many deep existential questions at play here and thus the minimum that those of you who are being serious and honest as discussants in this matter can do is to accord the discussion the seriousness it deserves rather than be offhand with it and act as though those who discuss a soul are either iidiots or lunatics.

PS: Reed - I do not say you have been offhand. I cant recall you treating the matter with mockery.

I ask the question because you say dead matter needs some kind of indwelling before it lives, if that was the case then life wouldn't require the chemical functions, the so called soul should be able to power a body without them shouldn't it?

Also another corollary would be so do you think multicellular microscopic organisms have a soul or do you consider them as non living things?

I don't understand what you mean by "None of us experiences ourselves as a body". I've never heard anybody describe their experiences as something exclusively happening to their body but not to them unless the person was feeling some sort of detachment. Are you saying feeling a sense of detachment is what everybody feels normally?

BTW I think we have discussed this before, there is no "physical seat of consciousness" its an irrelevant question once you understand that consciousness is an emergent property that is based largely about the brain but is an amalgation of all the body's biological functions.

DeepSight:
It is disappointing for you to have to reach as far as such a fringe modern sect in order to fully ground your ad hominems against the ancient and timeless concept of a soul.

The soul is the intangible inner aspect of man, and this is also not a foolish concept because men of all ages have recognized that mere matter cannot, of itself, be a conscious and living being. Mere matter is dead. The body is a self evident and obvious tool for an indwelling being. Every function of the body attests to this, including all the senses as well as the very facts of birth and death.

Can the human body cease all chemical functions and continue to be alive?

Luckysbab:
If this was a girl, deceived into sexual promiscuity by some adult, you'll quickly bring up the "minor" argument.

Now it's a minor, a male one, it suddenly doesn't matter - he should be held responsible for his father deceiving him?!

Unfortunate!

NVM. You are right he's a minor the mum should still care for him.

Zupay:
My cousin's son has been a source of disturbance to me for the past 2 weeks.

The background story.

My cousin got pregnant with him when she was 19 but the father who then in his mid 20s denied the pregnancy in the presence of both families and went on to claim the reason he gave her money to procure an abortion was because he was only one of the guys sleeping with my cousin at the time (which was a blatant lie) and it was his own contribution.

My Uncle and Aunt (my cousin's parents) had to accept the guy's denial and solely took care of my cousin's pregnancy. Her son was born in 2007 and bears my Uncle's name, he was taken care of by his grandparents, uncles and aunts as his mother went back to school and graduated. My cousin got a better paying job in 2015 and moved out of their family house with her son, who is presently in S.S.2.

The biological father resurfaced sometime last year in May, starting to make claims and all. He went directly to the boy's school to introduce himself and starting meeting the boy, buying him things without my cousin's knowledge until the man showed up at my uncle's house with some of his relatives but my uncle didn't receive them.

The boy was becoming rude to his mother, talking back at her, telling her he would push for a change in his surname to that of his biological father, became cold to his grandparents etc To cut long story, he moved to his father's house in August of last year and resumed school from there. My cousin (his mother) was seriously sick in October of last year, this boy never bothered to call on his mother despite knowing of her illness and he has a phone he uses freely.

My cousin (his mother) relocated to the UK early this January, on a skilled worker visa as she works in a children' home and have made up her mind to refocus on getting married and having other kids. Her son has been calling her, which she has never picked also sending her long stories of how his father's wife have been maltreating him even in the presence of his father and the father would say nothing. Pleading with the mother to bring him over to the UK to live with her (her visa allows her to bring her son to the UK easily since he is under 18) but my cousin have not been replying him and this boy has been disturbing me to talk his mother on his behalf as I am very close to my cousin.

I have spoken to my cousin severally and she insisted she has washed off her hands where her son is concerned, that she doesn't want him around her as she needs to live singly and have a relationship that would lead to marriage, that she really wants to settle down.

I have told the boy to concentrate on finishing secondary school but he seems obsessed with wanting to relocate to the UK though my other cousin (his mother's younger brother) has confirmed that the boy is having it rough living with the father, his wife and other children.

I believe his mother has a right to have a new lease of life.

This boy is always messaging me asking for updates, I don't know what else to tell him!

This is a clear case of biting the hand that fed you.

I misread the OP thinking the boy is 19. He is 16 this year, yeah he is a minor and was easily manipulated. He was foolish but I think the mum should forgive him. She doesn't have to bring him to UK but she can send him stuff and money to help him, he is still a minor and she still has obligations as his mum.

jaephoenix:
Lol.
Hahahahahahahahaha

LordReed cuman hear what your guy is saying

LMFAO! No bi today my guy. Bwahahahahaha!

sukkot:
This year 2023 would be the most historic year in the history of this planet. There would be the battle of Armageddon, the fall of the USA and the emergence of the messiah . Get ready

Ah the sukkot we know is back. LMAO!

Dude remember how 8 years ago you said this same thing? I remember very well, my daughter was born that year and is 8 now. So see you when she's 16? Bwahahahahaha!

Image123:
i am talking about Jesus. What's my business with Socrates and spiderman? They are not standards for my Jesus.

Well good for you.

Image123:
There's nothing contradictory about Jesus in the Bible. Ask God to open your eyes of understanding.

I wasn't talking about Jesus.

siofra:
They are right though.

I've always thought it's misogynistic to refer to God as HE.

God should be THEY. God doesn't have a gender.

Maybe it's time to admit that the Bible itself is misogynistic.

Babyboyforeal:
who wrote the Bible that u are quoting?

Somebodies, presumably ancient scribes.