₦airaland Forum

ghostofsparta: What makes you presume these confused Nigerian religionists understand the meaning of 'creationism'?

A lot here are Quaran/Bible-believing slaves. Most here don't read any thing apart from Bible,Qran, Dean Koontz, Mills & Boon, etc .....all they do is watch AfricaMagic, MTV Base, MTN project fame, Superstory, Big Brother Africa, eat, fornicate, peddle gossip and go to church and mosque to exhibit what I consider as a twisted sense of self-righteousness, forgiveness of weekly misdeeds and sins and fashion/wealth show off.....bunch of hypocrites....they know they can't try all that with ascetic pagan belief system.

Thank you man. A voice of reason!

ghostofsparta: I very much understand that you are referring to The semitic God and as so would you as a African atheist also think African deities such as Shango or Ogun doesn't exist too. By existence I don't imply a sentient, conscious, tangible god/entity but by evidence of the supernatural effect that can be observed whenever they are applied or activated. For instance...if one swear an oath under Ayilala or Shopona or Ogun and later betrays the condition that binds such oath.....something inexplicable happen.

Sorry, I dont believe in these practise but I see them as our culture and we should learn them but not believe it

Ihedinobi: I don't mind the dismissing attitude, I'm quite inured to it, I assure you. But you've dialled the debate further back. I was going to say that a negative does have to be defended, but there's no need to go there. Instead let me build a case for the existence of God and you can prove out the truthfulness of atheism's position by tearing it down successfully. I hope you can buy that.
Since I'm playing devil's advocate, my first proof for God's existence would be creation. As far as common sense and science can go, things cannot just spontaneously be. Their origin, as far as observation can go, has always been outside of themselves. Someone or something must make things for them to be. Hence there is a God. This God must of necessity be apart from the things He/She/It creates and therefore must be to us inscrutable and impossible to be known. If He (just picking one pronoun to help typing) cannot be known, we certainly cannot know or understand His origin. Therefore questions as to His person or character or origin cannot disprove His existence.
What say you?

Look, after having the same debate over 300 times, it gets boring. Creationism is not science. If there is an ultimate creator, who created him or her? Creationism leads back to the same question into an infinite regress.

.

alexleo: and does it mean that he hasnt banned any christian for misconduct? In any case, i think we should all play by the rules.

Why are you pretending? Were you too stupid to see the examples of bigotry that went unchallenged in my original post on this thread? Were christians playing by the rules?

Ihedinobi: Logicboy, does my argument calculate wrong? Have you never played devil's advocate? I'm not for this belief or that belief. Whether I personally believe in God or not is not part of my argument. You base your arguments on reason and I call them into question on the same basis. I'd do the same to any rabid "christian" or moslem. Why? Because I don't believe that our beliefs are ultimate. They are subjective. They vary according to our peculiar psychological make-up and our development as we go through life. But it makes no sense to me to disavow an ultimate, because there'd be no reason at all or anything else without it. My whole point is: if u will throw stones, build a brick house. If you'll condemn other religions and chastise their adherents because they are unreasonable, then you must first prove your own stand to be reasonable.
I make incontrovertibly clear once again that I do not choose to defend any religion, especially as I subscribe to none. I do not hold truck with things that have proven injurious, but if anyone will take issue with anyone else for some perceived failure or other, they must prove their worthiness to be judge.
You are very welcome to your atheism, but I do not agree that we should all bow to it if it has fundamental failures in it.
If you're ok with it then, tell me what proof you do have that God does not exist. That is your assertion and it is only right and proper that you defend it like Zuby77 did. When I make one, I am prepared to bear the burden of proof as well.
If you like, you could call this an exercise of intellect. It doesn't have to become a personal battle of any sort. I like the fact that you're a questioner, if I didn't, I wouldn't even speak to you. So pls, let's just have a fun debate. I'm not gonna try to make you believe anything and you won't find it easy to make me believe anything either

Burden of proof is on the believer. Atheism is not a belief. It is a disbelief.


You dont prove a negative. These are basic things about atheism, you should read first before trying to debate. This is why I have a dismissive attitude towards you.

Muslim brainwashing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk

Christians like to brainwash early



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNvnLFgH5BU

aletheia: And what exactly is the point of this childish rant? You are defensive about the fact that for you making a "£1,000 gross profit" is a "fulfilled life".
By all means go ahead and make as much money as you want, you silly delusional child. No one has denied you that desire. Your paranoia and madness lies in your feeling aggrieved and frenzied that others disagree with. Your illogicality is displayed plainly: You quote Jesus and say that Jesus says we should give away our earthly possessions and yet you mock the Christians who give away their money:

Clearly you are schizophrenic. Go take your medication, boy.

Fulfilled day is not = fulfilled life. That was a good sunday for me. I rather work than keep the sabbath day holy (giving tithes to frauds)

As for the schizoprenic part, tithe is 10% and not your full salary. Jesus said you should give all. Dumbazz




Furthermore, isnt it christians that are also receiving the tithes?

tintingz: nop.. i pity them(evil doers), including you

What makes me an evil doer? Do you honestly believe that a muslim man with 4 wives is more chaste than me?


I dont have blood on my hands. Lets talk about Muhammad.

Ihedinobi: Logicboy, u done gone and started the debate, dude!
Funny thing about these biological machines: they've got self-awareness and can at their own desire throw off programming foreign to their own #psychological# make-up. But that's a whole debate in itself, no?
As for this truth of yours, meeeehn...I don't know. Even scientists are skeptical about scientific laws. They hold them very carefully because the next experiment might make mincemeat of them hehe. You say, for instance, that there's no evidence of God's existence, and I ask, "how come? What do you call this great diversity of things and coincidences that we see all around us every coincidental day?" Gee, they didn't just happen to wake up one day out of nothing and decide to be, did they? But that's one huge debate, dude. Typing on a java phone really does something to the fun of such a debate, don't u know But we'll see what we can do with it, now won't we?

Zuby77, how about I tell you that you don't exist? You want proof? Well, come here right now and stand before me and I'll believe that u do lol. Don't say that because I'm responding to a message from you that I'm affirming that you do exist because that'll only prove out my point o. But you do make a good point when you say, "the god these churches acclaim" or something like that. I believe that a conception of God cannot reasonably be said to be Him anymore that a reflection of a person's physical features can be said to be them (we'd have to account for the quality of reflecting surface, wouldn't we? And keep in mind that a picture's just an intersection of light rays while the person it shows is a very solid, very substantial entity). Just like any other person, He (if He is a Person) must have nuances (that's the word, right? English! <sigh> and peculiarities of character, no? So, while some religion might define His Character one way (usually according to their idiosyncracies), He may be nothing like that at all. So when they appeal to that conception of Him, they receive echoes of their own words for all their trouble. I believe that the only true knowledge we can have of God will come by very personal experience with Him (same way we learn anything and anyone else actually), something that cannot be awed by argument or vanquished by sentiment. And perhaps these days of questioning are the right days in which to pursue that path. Do you disagree?

I should have known that you're one of those guys that think that they got some solid arguments for God or religion but the have fallacies in reality.


There is no evidence for our God. None. I dont have to be a scientist to know that. None.

Ihedinobi: Logicboy, u done gone and started the debate, dude!
Funny thing about these biological machines: they've got self-awareness and can at their own desire throw off programming foreign to their own #psychological# make-up. But that's a whole debate in itself, no?
As for this truth of yours, meeeehn...I don't know. Even scientists are skeptical about scientific laws. They hold them very carefully because the next experiment might make mincemeat of them hehe. You say, for instance, that there's no evidence of God's existence, and I ask, "how come? What do you call this great diversity of things and coincidences that we see all around us every coincidental day?" Gee, they didn't just happen to wake up one day out of nothing and decide to be, did they? But that's one huge debate, dude. Typing on a java phone really does something to the fun of such a debate, don't u know But we'll see what we can do with it, now won't we?

Zuby77, how about I tell you that you don't exist? You want proof? Well, come here right now and stand before me and I'll believe that u do lol. Don't say that because I'm responding to a message from you that I'm affirming that you do exist because that'll only prove out my point o. But you do make a good point when you say, "the god these churches acclaim" or something like that. I believe that a conception of God cannot reasonably be said to be Him anymore that a reflection of a person's physical features can be said to be them (we'd have to account for the quality of reflecting surface, wouldn't we? And keep in mind that a picture's just an intersection of light rays while the person it shows is a very solid, very substantial entity). Just like any other person, He (if He is a Person) must have nuances (that's the word, right? English! <sigh> and peculiarities of character, no? So, while some religion might define His Character one way (usually according to their idiosyncracies), He may be nothing like that at all. So when they appeal to that conception of Him, they receive echoes of their own words for all their trouble. I believe that the only true knowledge we can have of God will come by very personal experience with Him (same way we learn anything and anyone else actually), something that cannot be awed by argument or vanquished by sentiment. And perhaps these days of questioning are the right days in which to pursue that path. Do you disagree?

I should have known that you're one of those guys that think that they got some solid arguments for God or religion but the have fallacies in reality.


There is no evidence for our God. None. I dont have to be a scientist to know that. None.

aletheia: ^
Another typically shallow, knee-jerk, ill-thought out and illogical response. Nothing in the Bible verses you quoted supports your mindset that a "£1,000 gross profit" or "making money" is a "fulfilled life". Certainly the import of Jesus' words in no way validates your shallow, callow and miserable worldview.

Ode, I am not bound by your caveman book called the bible. I live a material life in a material world in a material body. I dont lie to myself. Money is almost everything in this world.


As for you, you are a hypocrite that can not even live by the standards preached by the bible and Jesus christ and you have the nerve to call me shallow?

Jesus was right to people like you sheep!

Ayomivic: This words of yours is not new.They said it to Noah and Bible had told us you will say this in 2 peter 3:4

"And they would say,where is the promise of is coming,for ever since fathers fell asleep,all things as been continued the way they were since the beginning of creation." 2 peter 3:4

if he comes ,what will be your portion?

If Jesus comes, I will call 911 to arrest him. The guy is a terrorist that wants to destroy the world with a spiritual bomb called rapture.

lagerwhenindoubt: There is no need getting your feathers in a ruffle. The End Time approaches and i have sharpened my fire-poker for persecuting christians when Lord Satan takes over Hah ah AHHa hAha aha hahahAH AHa hAH ah aha h AHA h @Seun will be my first fire-poker candidate

lol......better be careful because Seun will form his own website in hell called Nairahell and then use his forum members to ban you

alexleo: I still dont see seun the way you are painting him. If he was a christian and banned you i would have said he did because you are an atheist or something.

How am I painting him, Mr. Brown-noser?


I would say the same thing, Seun banned me for a foolish reason. He banned me for something that the christians even do worse!

slimming: while not pre-ume prayer

brainpulse: I dont believe in dreams also because I have not dreamt before. Please proof that dreams exist[b]

I dont believe in dreams also because I have not dreamt before. Please proof that dreams exist[/b]

I dont believe in dreams also because I have not dreamt before. Please proof that dreams exist

Everyone dreams. Fact. People sometimes forget their dreams.

Ihedinobi: Geez! Good thing I went to bed when I did. Don't know what kinda night I woulda had otherwise. Mehn, you guys are something!
I'll tell u guys something: ideologies and philosophies that are built up by humans can be torn down by humans. Logicboy, that applies to yo own atheism. The way u go about yo crusade says that u think u've found the truth. If u really have, why all the aggression when someone expresses doubt of the fact? Do you really think that you have? If I was on a computer right now and you were online (don't know if you are or aren't), you could have got one hell of a debate on your hands if yo answer was "yes". I don't believe it's a human-concocted philosophy to say, "live and let live". I think that life itself bears it out as a principle. However, I'm not gonna argue that out. In the words of a wise man long ago, "if this thing is of men, it will come to nothing, but if it is of God, you will find yourselves in a war with God for fighting it." Let people be, let them believe what they will. People aren't machines that can be programmed and reprogrammed at will. Show yo faith in humanity by allowing people the right to learn.
Z-something-or-other (sorry I'm not editing live, so can't remember yo handle well), deconvert or convert, it's all the same. Prove by your own lifestyle that what you believe is the Truth, the Ultimate, not by showing the failures of other beliefs. That's low and truly disingenious.
Y'all appeal to reason, and even simplicity (for real?), use both a little more then, sheesh!

Unfortunately, humans are machines. Biological machines that can be programmed to vote against their own interest.


As for the truth, atheism states only one truth; there is no evidence for God.

My lifestyle is my lifestyle, it is subjective and in no way the "truth" niether a lie.

aletheia: ^
So making money is for you is a "fulfilled life". How typically callow and shallow.

Shallow? See this hypocrite, why dont you be like Jesus and give away all your salary/assets and spend your time preaching the gospel?



The Cost of Following Jesus

57As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

58Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

59He said to another man, “Follow me.”

But the man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

60Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

61Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family.”

62Jesus replied, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

vedaxcool: Dude you got debunked left, right and centre! you simply refused to accept the plain fact that you were refuted in every respect.

1. Anybody can be poor! that was what i wrote!

2. I see that you being highly ignorant let me reproduce what i wrote: In the Qur'an it is clearly stated that when someone is in dire situation he is allowed to take non halal food as long as his intention is for sustain his life!

3.Again you seem to hell bent on holding unto your views which ofcourse remains your fundamental right, but the point you wrote remains refuted in this regards as this is what i wrote;
, I doubt whether such happens but if does it is left to the muslims to decide whether or not he would want to manage the place but this is conditioned on the absolute fact that he can't even find say even a labourers job etc,

On your last point i leave it unanswwered, you were refuted on the pillars issue, you were again refuted on this issue, your result to perpetually shifting the goal post truly leaves me wondering whether you even understand what you write before you post it!

I am not LagosShia!!! I dont get debunked thorougly . This is because I put facts down and not some conspiracy (Shia conspiracy)


1) Nope, not anybody can be poor. Can the Saudi prince or Prince of Wales ever be poor if they want to? On the subject matter, poor people can not do Zakat, travel to mecca. 2 pillars of Islam that MAJORITY of mulsims will ALWAYS find it impossible to partake in. There are more poor people than middle class.

2) We eat to survive in the first place. Halal food doesnt make any sense. Even when I believed in God, I reasoned that God would not judge us by what we eat but by how we treat fellow mankind. The exception becomes the rule. Why should some food be haraam in the first place when there are so many more situations that make it necessary than forbidden? Many countries, infact most countries have large areas that have no single halal restaurant or supermarket.

3) The Riba argument is a parallel to the haram alcohol argument. Poor people can not afford to be picky with houses or jobs and your Islamic principles are limiting options for them.


Vedaxcool, seek the truth.

JIL: As you go about shaking your bruised ego, also try the User ID 'CryDaddy01'

You just keep giving, dont you?

aletheia: ^So £1,000 gross profit for you is a "fulfilled life". How typically callow and shallow.

lol.......it was a fufilled day. I made money!

Delafruita: you know what,thats the second time in 2 days that phrase "wolf in sheep clothing" has been used as an adjective in a sentence referring to me.if i did know better,i'd have been tempted to ask if you were gladys,a lovely girl who,unfortunately is in love with a dude who doesnt believe in love.lol
digression aside,i am indeed a moderate.i attend church,i go to the mosque,i go for traditional festivals and visit the shrines.i am not insinuating that i am a religious prostitute or that in a bid to denounce one,i embraced all.on the contrary,i go to these places when invited because i understand the belief system attached to them and i accept that individuals need to believe in a power above themselves.i dont "pity them" or consider them "slaves to faith".i have a good knowledge of the bible,a good knowledge of the quran and hadiths,an average knowledge of the torah,i am yet to get to the tripitaka but hope to start on it one day.i believe my willingness to eplore the various belief systems has helped me better understand the adherents.the only issue i have with them is when they choose to potray others outside of their faith as been ignorant.then i go out of my way to show the inconsistencies in their own faith.more like telling them to take the log away from their eyes before calling others blind.

Good for you/!

JIL: Try and register with the user Id 'illogicFool'. Its available and aptly describes who you are.

And Seun Osewa in his wisdom, calls me a troll.

Delafruita: i perceived from his statement "i have personally deconverted......." that he sees his mission as been to take people away from the path they have chosen and take them unto a path he perceives as been better for them.personally,i like christians(real ones) and i think they find some measure of fulfilment in serving the unseen God.i have always liked jehovah's witnesses possibly because in the over 20 years i have had contact with them,not once has anyone of them ever attempted to "show me the light".they lay their perception of facts before you and leave you to dissect it and determine yourself what it says.
i am not against atheism in its entirety.besides,what exactly is atheism?can a human exist without believing in something?every notable "atheist" finds a cause to believe in,be it science,music,poetry,nature etc.many new coverts to atheism perceive atheism to be a rebellion against their hitherto "all fulfilling" religion.they go all out to bash that religion and in so doing,make atheism into a religion for what is the difference between believing in Yahweh and believing in the non-existence of Yahweh?in both cases there is a belief system which individuals feel the urge to perpetuate.
in your own submission,you go on "typing rages" when certain issues arise.thats because some people notably religionists hold views which are at crossroads with yours.for eample,you believe in freedom for gays while a christian doesnt.i understand the fact that christians can bring the rage out of even gandhi with their acclaimed "piety",however,i believe a christian should be free to hold his belief and not be castigated for it unless of course the purpose of atheism is to change the belief system of otherwise fervent worshippers.this is not to say situations don't arise that require setting the record straight but in such cases,it should be just about setting the record straight and nothing more.

I'm sick of people like you. You act like the moderate but you are as deceptive and disingenuous as a wolf in sheep clothing. The very fact that Jehovah's witnesses come to my door every week because I am always nice with them and give them debates betrays your comments. I have a years worth of their magazine in my junk cupboard.

People like you will tell the peaceful atheists to calm down while commending the religious freaks because they are in power/the majority. No one here has called for wiping out or insulting religion. I have stated that everyone has a right to their belief numerous times. Please shut up and stock acting as if you're the only one that is peaceful.

tintingz: hehehehe, they are christians and they worship 3head gods a human god, and God will judge

Does it make you happy to tell people that they will burn in hell.

dekung: Meaning you or your cohorts could have him killed? ...... nd Seun or any of the MODs to not see any reason to ban this blood thirsty millitant? smh

I wonder. On rule for christians and another for atheists!

Double standard!

ZUBY77: The voice of reason is always plain and simple to the ears. Good work Logicboy. I confront religionists aggressively sometimes because they hardly pay attention to common talks. I have single handedly deconverted over a hundred people here in Onitsha. I believe that before we can move forward, we must understand what we have here on earth before venturing into an unknown realm.

nice one

Delafruita: for every movement against a thing,there is a danger of becoming the thing you moved against.atheism shouldnt be a religion which people need to be converted to.believe people should be free to practice whatever religion they want to practice.my only objection is when they begin to stuff their beliefs down my throat.if people want to be christians,muslims,buddhist,rabbis,taoist,ifa-worshippers,etc,i am fine with it.my only grouse with christianity and islam is their condemnation of every other people to hell.i will have the same grouse with atheism when it begins to potray itself as been "the only way" to ultimate fulfilment

Isnt this what I said in the original post? No reasonable atheist will tell you that he/she wants to wipe out religion. The idea is to make religious people not to force their beliefs on others and to question their religion.

Note that Zuby77 mentioned ~"common talks" and "voice of reason". He also said that he is only aggressive sometimes. I am sure that he doesnt go around saying "atheism is the only way" or shouting at people's faces on the streets.

JIL: Why are you whining. Thank your stars you were not banned from planet earth. Now go and do something more productive with your time.

smh

Ayomivic: I think you people should let us keep the topic on.But if you insist that i should answer your question, i will say that,God has made know his way the choice is yours.
You,Logicboy were given oppotunity as i was given but flung it away like papers.Don't you think your own is worst than that of those that was born into other religions ?
Remember that my ancentors were pagans as you know but when they found out the truth, they left the darkness and moved to light.My father enjoy the previlege so iam.

I knew you'd give a foolish answer. Many of your ancestors were taken as slaves with the support of the christian religion. Some took their pagan religion to America as slaves where some African paganism still survives. How can you call a slave religion the truth and the light?


Your ignorance irritates me.


Sorry, I usually educate people but today, I have reached my limit of tolerating stupidity