bigfrancis21: You're obviously trying hard to taint my character and paint yourself as 'angel' in front of aigbofa just to get him on your side. Obviously, you can't stand alone. Such childish behaviour.
Dude it's obvious.. I jst don't really like ignoring people unless am sure that person is lost for now
However ur case is a case of slander, u know u are lying but that's where ur joy comes...I can't deprive a man of his joy
childish? See who's talking, you've been licking butt for Nigerman and now am childish for stating the obvious
bigfrancis21: Dude, since you brought up the issue of Ajami script, please proceed to provide evidence of 'oyinbo' in Ajami script. Geez. Simple homework. Why is this so difficult for you?
am nt interested in it...but surely u are..looking for academic proof and all that
First you'll need to get a person who understands Arabic alphabets and proceed to Iku Baba Yeye's palace
Laughing at ur despicable character and joy in slander
I really hope u are different in ur attitude outside this forum...take advice, such people have no dignity spreading clear lies and feeling good about it
bigfrancis21: You claimed before that Yorubas don't use Igbo words at all. Proof of Davido using 'biko' and Oyikasola using 'nwa nti nti' was thrown at you and you turn around to claim it is 'pidgin' english.
Oh, you're quick to remember it is pidgin but would want to have us believe Igbos borrowed 'oya', 'nko' when they only use it in Pidgin as well. What wanton hypocrisy.
bigfrancis21: Are all Bini Obas buried in Ife? NO! That particular Oba might have opted to be buried in Ife, maybe due to some extra relations he might have with the Ife people. Anybody can be buried anywhere. Quoting 1 link doesn't prove anything.
smh. There twist as u like. even the prince is a demon and Yoruba agent by claiming Ife as the final resting place of former Benin monarchs...nt monarch
bigfrancis21: When I posted that I meant you in terms of being ignorant of issues beyond Yoruba, with your knowledge you've displayed bordering only on Yoruba mythology and very little of Edo history (as seen from your narrow-minded view). Let me reiterate myself, I was referring to Rodoillo approaching an Edo man himself to ask for the etymology of 'oyibo' in Edo language rather than a Yoruba man (you) who knows absolutely nothing about the Edo language. It is just the same way, someone would approach a Hausa man for issues about Igbo when he could have easily approached an Igbo person instead. Now, there are exceptions to this: some Igbo aren't fully knowledgeable in Igbo history, so are some Yoruba and Hausa.
doesn't remotely justify this
What else do you expect from him to answer you other than self-gratifying answers twisted in some way to some yoruba origin?
As I would keep saying, I find enough pride in my ancestry and ethnicity that even if I was born In Koma village I would still be proud of My naked grandfather...that's me, so while Negros out there claim Europe, Berbers, Native Americans, Israel as their legacy
I look to Yoruba...nobody can take that away from me if I safe guard it so I don't need to claim what isn't Yoruba especially when it obviously is not So ur slander against me, that I want to claim Ajami, I want to claim Edo, soon I want to claim China
Aigbofa: Ignorance? Why was the heads of dead Benin Obas buried in Ife? Another myth? Maybe the Benin folks just love to bury the heads of their dead obas in foreign lands. I would wager you just make up your own history as you go along.
Nigerman1 will say Prince Isede is another Yoruba demon
bigfrancis21: NigerMan1 is doing enough of that lecturing already and he is doing a great job of that. I leave it to him to 'educate' you better.
the edo man who is disgracing himself with his nonsense...I told him to go ask his uncles about Oranmiyan Surely they remember him from their childhood days of father - son story time
Aigbofa: Obas were not just anybody even in ancient times. You obviously understand the symbolism of bringing their heads back to Ife even if you wouldn't admit it.
The guy is a chronic liar, to be honest am glad it's not a Yoruba person propagating such behaviour, I would have been so ashamed
bigfrancis21: You mean town names that might have been named only recently long after Bini establishment of Lagos? How does that prove authenticity of ownership of the land?
I keep asking u and ur Lord and master Nigerman1 to tell us about the Idejo chiefs and their relationship with Oba Ado
am sure the internet has a long line of stuff for u
bigfrancis21: @bold...no. This is only a revision of your earlier stance. Everybody in the Niger Delta and in Southern Nigeria knows Edo people are a distinct people, except the Yorubas.
In UNN, I had a Bini coursemate, 'ekhator' as coursemate who is a proud bini man, speaks bini fluently and learnt Igbo too while in UNN. He never saw himself as Yoruba or a Yoruba cousin whatsoever. During my secondary school days in Owerri, my classmate in the same class is from Edo (Ishan) and is proudly 'Ishan' and speaks fluent Owerri Igbo, I know another one during my service days in Owerri who is proudly edo and sees himself as 'bini'. All the Edos i've met don't ever see themselves as Yorubas. It is only on nairaland you will see Yorubas claiming Edos as Yorubas.
Ok then check from page 0 and show me where I said Edos are Yoruba...if u can't u should be ashamed of urself for gleefully propagating chaos and slander as a Mod
I didn't say all Edos have the brother consciousness when they think of Yoruba
bigfrancis21: First off, Hausas had been using Ajami script to write Hausa language as early as 15th century. Ajami script was borrowed by the Yoruba by 17th century as part of the Islamic conquest of Yoruba land. Very soon, you would want to claim ownership of 'ajami script'.
Please be my guest. Go ahead and provide academic evidence in ajami script of the recording of 'oyingbo' by oyo traders. Please don't fail again this time as you did woefully before.
Hmm Islamic conquest of Yorubaland? I see, I didn't know that existed in wat year but most importantly in wat realm?
Why would I want anything to do with Arabs or their writing? pure nonsense
Sorry go ask the Alaafin for that...u are the one interested in "academic proof"
bigfrancis21: I'm not even a christian to start with. That I mention the bible doesn't make me a christain neither does it make me a muslim if I quote the quaran.
There's an even more plausible thesis, 'oyibo' is a corruption of the white man's pronunciation of 'onye igbo' as 'oye ebo'.
do you have academic proof against the notion of an Ife origin for the lineage of the Omo n'oba n'edo?
Cus there are so many books and websites...ur favourite - Wikipedia is one that attest to Oranmiyan having a son that began the Dynasty Infact show us a piece of work on the origins of Obaship without Ife influence
bigfrancis21: I was following your argument and his silently. No, you didn't ignore his post because you felt it was crap. He stood up squarely to your misinformation and at some point you gave up because you hadn't answers anymore to give him and you could no longer stand up to him.
And I don't remember you telling me of any Edo in laws whatsoever but what I do remember clearly is your adamant belief to unlearn the fact that Edos are not Yorubas, a belief which you reiterated on this thread and on the other thread (Oyibo or Oyinbo which one is correct) few days ago (2015), claiming that Edos are Yorubas and Igbo copied from Edos, thus copying from Yorubas.
Again with the slander. Ok show me where I said Edos are Yoruba I already told u with my previous posts how I consider Edos my closest brothers in Nigeria(the world Infact) if u misunderstood that...well it's best u reread wat I posted
Radoillo: The use of Oyibo actually extends farther east than the areas formerly under some form of Bini hegemony. And members of my grandmother's and great grandmother's generations had such names as Egbeoyibo, Okwuoyibo, or just plain Oyibo.
However (and here I may differ from my Igbo brothers) I really suspect that the word did not originate with Igbo-speakers. I suspect it originated with those groups who have had a far longer history of contact with Europeans.
Etymological investigations taking note of languages spoken along the coast and in such kingdoms as Benin may ultimately help answer the question.
Well I noticed everybody knows of the word oyibo even if it's jst in pidgin such people use it.
Edoid language speakers should attempt breaking down the word maybe a thread with such purpose can be moved to the front page..at least for the cause of knowledge and seeking truths
bigfrancis21: It is just like asking me to break down the word, 'biko' in Igbo language when it is already a word on its own that means 'please', or break down 'chair' in English language into 'cha + ir' syllables. Note that, the Urhobo also use 'biko' for please.
Dude or Madam, it is a word on its own in Igbo that simply means 'light skinned person', whether light-skinned Igbo or European.
Don't get me wrong. It has not been established who copied the word from each other. The fact that the word is used amongst the Igbo, Edos and Yorubas points to a common ancestral origin for these ethnic groups. However, the massive use of 'oyibo' all over southern Nigeria (Igbo, Igala, Edo, Urhobo, etc) and 'oyinbo' exclusively amongst the Yorubas shows that 'oyibo' might be the original word from the common ancestor, with Yorubas adding the 'n' nasal sound in line with its language nasal feature. Yorubas attaching the 'honey + peel' meaning to 'oyinbo', which happens to be coincidence, by the way, and breaking it into smaller syllables is a ploy against the obvious. Don't forget Yoruba is a nasal language. Below is a classic example of an original Igbo word, 'nwa nti nti' (which means 'very small' in Igbo) corrupted to 'wan tin tin' (adding of the 'n' sound as usual) by Yorubas:
In 2 generations to come, Yorubas growing up to speak 'wan tin tin' might want claim it to be Yoruba and Igbos copying it from Yorubas. History repeating itself.
Now, academic proof so far has shown the usage of 'oyibo' in Igboland to as far back as the 18th century i.e 300 years ago. This is the 21st century (to remind those who have lost track of time). Academic proof of the Igbo dispenses any false claims of 'From Yoruba' adoption of the word. If for anything, it proves the Igbo have been using 'oyibo' for at least 300 years back in time. Need I remind you that the Nri civilization (9AD) is, at least, 200 years older than the earliest Yoruba civilization -Ife, and 400 years older than the Oyo civilization (14AD).
answer this question...were they speaking Yoruba in that video? Did they add wantintin to Yoruba language?
U keep talking of academic proof, when southern Nigerians haven't been writing books for a long time
Best thing here is to give us insight on the word Oyibo, such a word must be broken down to know the logic behind it
There's no known academic proof of Yoruba using Oyinbo before Olaudah's book, I don't need to bother myself because I know that already.. Unless one looks into any existing Ajami script written by Oyo traders you might never get ur "academic proof"
bigfrancis21: If it excites you to believe 'oyibo' is derived from 'ebo' in Bini and therefore the Edos are the originator of the word 'oyibo'/'oyinbo', would it please you to accept that Yorubas borrowed the word from Edos?
I guess Yoruba and Edo are that close, but then that's not of my opinion at all
NigerMan1: @ macof - Edos and Yorubas are NOT brothers. We share no blood relation at all. However if you have evidence to the contrary please say it now so I can evaluate it.
However as members of the black race, we are brothers. Just as we are brothers to Igbo, Ijaw, Ghanaian, Fulani, Tiv etc
Again you wrote: " Nigerman1 doesn't even know his Edo history, pls am I to take an edo man who doesn't know Oranmiyan seriously?"
I know Oranyan story very well my dear macof. According to Yoruba folklore and tales, Oranyan founded or he/his son was first king of Benin. Is this not what you mean?
Bro you don't have to establish this fable, because its already in public domain in Yorubaland. And as a Yoruba person I don't expect you to believe otherwise because you'd been fed from the cradle with this fable.
But I plead with you to accept the real truth, though it may hurt: ORANYAN (and Oduduwa) were NOT human beings, but demon gods of the Yoruba in ancient times.
Those stories are called MYTHOLOGIES in advanced human ancient histories.
NOTE: Do you know they still worship Oduduwa with human lives up till today?
Hmm and if I called Ewuare, Igodo, Eseige, Idia and other Edo figures demons am sure you would cry foul. But I don't insult history, or historical characters
Post like this where the king and father figure of over 40million people is called a demon is given a like by an obvious Yoruba hating mod (bigfrancis) instead of being hidden for breaking rules 1,2,3&8
NOTE: Over the years some Yoruba tampered with aspect of this historical events to dilute it. But they could NOT erase or deny it because it was well recorded and have many human and material evidences till today.
For example on the Lagos official site, they wrote, "... Lagos was originally called Eko, which stems from either Oko (Yoruba: "cassava farm" or Eko ("war camp", by its Bini conquerors."
Now my friend can you see a subtle way of giving two opinions? Do you know why the Yorubas added this phrase, "either Oko (Yoruba: "cassava farm"? To simply create opportunity for their people to argue it away and choose or claim the first.
But truth EKO was 100% Benin name, given to Lagos by the Benin. I fear Yoruba people ooo.
But you'll notice they are unable to deny Lagos conquest and establishment of its Monarchy by the Great Benin Kings. They are unable to deny human and material evidences such as the Obanikoro family etc
They are not happy those events are more modern, well recorded and documented internationally. So they allow it be.
However you will NEVER hear Yorubas acknowledge these events; they will NEVER celebrate it. They NEVER mention this whenever they talk about Benin history except mouthing old fables and mythological folklore of Oduduwa weaved together to promote ego.
Do u want us to go down the road of the history of Lagos?
You keep talking about Lagos history but take offence when anybody talks about Bini history. Why? wat do u call that? Hypocrisy
Are u so interested in Lagos? U mind opening a thread let's discuss Oba Ado and his relationship with the Idejo chiefs?
Then u can also tell us how Oba of Benin lineage started without Oranmiyan
bigfrancis21: LOL! Don't tell me you took that seriously. Dude, you first started the game of breaking down words into syllables to 'attach' meaning to it, I was simply playing to the tune which you, the piper, called.
In other words u lied. a Christian lying. Carry on...
then we take it.Oyibo has no root word in Igbo...bad phase for ur "Yoruba copied from Igbos" thesis
bigfrancis21: Do not be quick to forget that I have argued with you before on this Edo/Yoruba issue back in 2013 on a thread where you were claiming edos as yorubas, and I lectured severally you on the differences between both peoples, starting with the dissimilarity in Edo and Yoruba languages for starters. You were obtrusively recalcitrant and adamant in your false belief that Edos are Yorubas. I would easily pull out your quotes the next minute if you want me to.
People like NigerMan1 are the reason truth about the Edo distinction from Yoruba will continue to be known and passed down to generations.
I noticed you 'tactically' dodged some of the questions he posed to you. Given that you are 'all-knowing' and your 'knowledge' is final, why don't you step up and answer his questions? Or why is that difficult for you?
I told u then that I have Edo in laws and friends, I could include Edo folks am nt so familiar with that consider Edo and Yoruba brothers as well In the words of a friend of mine from my church going days "Yoruba and Edo are the same, sons of the same father"
I brought up a point that the historical ties are undeniable and the problem is that Edo cannot be called Yoruba but we are members of a larger group that doesn't have a name, so I jokingly named it “oduduwa"...or did I say anything other than this?
Smh if u are truthful or not ignorant you would be silent on nigerman's matter cus it's awfully shameful that he claims to be Edo and doesn't know Oranmiyan, Oba Ewedo, Ogiamen and the transition of Edionwere chiefs to Uzama now subjects of the Oba which I mentioned to him
Anyway I won't even comment on Edo history as it offends some emotional people, but know that it's impossible to speak history of Edo, or history of Yoruba without bringing the two together at some point
Radoillo: I also think it might me fruitful to explore an Edo origin. Do you know of any Edo etymology of 'oyibo' or the related term 'ebo'?
it's a whole bunch of things that I took into consideration
1. "ebo" is popular among Edos for European. “Oba Yan Oto Se Evbo Ebo” Oba owns the land up till the European's country 2. Urhobo use only Oyibo unlike Igbo that have multiple terms for light skinned person
Urhobo are known to have migrated from Edo and among the first to have contact with the Europeans.. the term "Oyibo" is most likely linked to where they are coming from 3. according to many things I have observed "Oyibo" is only popular with western Igbos once under Benin empire 4. Bigfrancis taught me a little Igbo "o yi ibo" looks like Ibo...could actually be "o yi ebo" - he looks like the Europeans
bigfrancis21: And I thought you were smart. 'Eboe' was the spelling of 'Igbo' during Olaudah's time and given that Igbo orthography was not in existence during that period, it was only normal that he went by the spelling prevalent at that time.
When Igbos pronounce 'oyibo', the 'i' sound is actually extended and the pronunciation comes out as 'oyiibo'. Now, going by Olaudah's spelling orthography, 'i' sound was spelt as 'e', just as in igbo/eboe, mgbirichi/mbrenche, isseke/essaka etc. From his spelling evidence, Olaudah was referring to 'oyibo' in his work.
If you want to doubt his work, it is left to you. Your problem with his book is not just doubting his work but you do it for the very fact that he left evidence of the usage of 'oyibo', not 'oyinbo' in Igboland dating to the 18th century - a very fact which you despise. Meanwhile you have utterly failed to provide any evidence whatsoever of 'oyinbo' in South West. And will continue to fail.
Ok. Lets examine this Oye Eboe which according to u Eboe the spelling for "Igbo" pronounced "ibo" by Europeans
You once said this Oyibo could be O yi ibo = looks like Igbo Why would Igbos of that time excuse themselves from using "Igbo"...to produce something like Oyigbo and prefer Ibo which many didn't make sense of?? The European influence at that time in Olaudah's village wasn't even that significant to warrant such a thing
bigfrancis21: @bold...LOL! The lens in your eyes have fallen and you've began to slowly imbibe it into your consciousness that edo and yoruba are 2 different peoples and will ever be. Thanks to NigerMan1 for unlearning in you the lies and false history you have grown up to believe. Take home lesson today: you have learned (sadly as an adult) that edos and yorubas are 2 different peoples.
In your tiwsted mind some days back, edo = yoruba and Igbo copied from edo therefore they copied from yoruba.
smh. you didn't address my post but sought to provoke
Anyway I don't consider Yoruba and Edo same people, I consider Yoruba and Edo brothers
Nigerman1 doesn't even know his Edo history, pls am I to take an edo man who doesn't know Oranmiyan seriously?
bigfrancis21: Why don't you provide academic proof of the usage of 'oyingbo' in yoruba land since historical times, rather than running over the place providing nothing to the discourse at hand?
dude! Words are passed around before they are written by those with the opportunity..while I have nothing earlier than Olaudah's text, I have given u the etymology of Oyinbo and there are tons of places called named with Oyinbo like Oke Oyinbo and Oyinbo Mefun...this places weren't established in the 20th century
Why not tell me the meaning of Oyibo and how Yoruba copied from Igbos
Again you would tell me how Oye eboe is Oyibo cus honestly I don't understand Olaudah's spellings as he also calls himself Eboe How reliable is this man's work?
Oh I think it's important I note now before I am misunderstood again "I don't claim Igbos copied it from Yoruba, I actually think it's from Edo"
Culture › Re: Etymology Of The Word Oyinbo by macof(m): 2:05am On Mar 18, 2015
childish? See who's talking, you've been licking butt for Nigerman and now am childish for stating the obvious
