₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89294645]Please do answer the earlier, I will give response to yours.
The angel of the Lord, is stated there. Did he auto spawn or a rep. of God to Moses at that point.
God spoke to him his message across an angel, so yes.
David killed Uriah, I know he didn't use his sword or go one on one with him.

I don’t get you brother. Which angel of the Lord are you referring to and what questions do you want me to answer ?

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89288162]Please what's your Exodus 7:3-4 and Exodus 9 vs 12 like on your Bible, please share 'cause my version could be different. God bless


Now, I want you to be attentive and go with the flow. I’ll start by asking you two simple questions.

First, who was speaking to Moses in the burning bush?

Second, who was speaking with Moses on mount Sinai when he went to receive the law?

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89285926]The kill there is a different concept from death, I am referencing kill to murder and not death. As killing results in death but even without killing death can still occur so that's not the context of what I implied.
This is simple and please respond with a yes or no. I know you will find it difficult to answer or not answer at all.
Did David kill Uriah the Hittite.
Did God send snakes to kill the people in Numbers 21
Did God killed Uzzah in 2 Sam 6
please reply simple yes or no, you can send long epistle later if requested.
God bless


The answer is a resounding NO. God doesn’t kill. He was not responsible for all that you stated above.

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89283217]If there is no law, there is no sin. Therefore anything done cannot be charged. If they practiced sodomy and there is no law, does that mean they are not sinning. If they are not, I'm not sure if it's good to destroy them when they did nothing wrong.
I don't see why the man gathering sticks can be forgiven, instead God ordered him killed. Even when the people complained God burned them, some complained cuz of no food and water and there comes the snakes, I don't want to talk about why God hardened Pharaoh's heart that led to his death (maybe forgiveness is different at that time) there are lots of them the list is up there but, they will definitely Dodge it. I know all this can be justified but, God can take life that's the truth



There’s a difference between sin and transgression. I didn’t state that they didn’t sin. They sinned but didn’t transgress. You can only be punished when you transgress.

Then God didn’t harden Pharaoh’s heart. If He did, He would be contradicting this verse:

“Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This is the man that hardened Pharaoh’s heart:


“But Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭8:32‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Pharaoh himself!

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89279953]Yes they did sinned and also not the first and last sinners.




Well then, consider this very important verse;


“(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.”
‭‭~Romans‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

And yet this:

“because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


At that time there was no law. So there was no law against sodomy. Also, sin was not imputed. That is, sin was not charged to their account. Since there was no law, then there was no transgression. And if there was no transgression, then there was no punishment for sins.

Likewise, you can’t blame God for the flood because this event also took place before the law was given.

So they couldn’t have been punished because they didn’t transgress a law.

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89279536]They were didn't do good, I e theirs deeds were displeasing...




In other words, because of their sins, right?

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89279064]Yes, it's written in the Bible. Was it fire or shower of blessings that he sent, which.


Very good sir. So why did He destroy sodom and Gomorrah?

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89278708]I think using "DID" is better if not a long epistle, then verses, then outta subject, sooner things that won't rhyme might be used as an example or an outside question that may not relate to it will follow up.
Did Jesus died on the cross ---> Yes
Did Jesus healed the sick ---> Yes
Did David kill Goliath ----> Yes
Did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah ---> ?


What sayeth thou sir, did God destroy sodom and Gomorrah?

[quote author=Stephenmoka4 post=89278238]Not why, simply asked did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah


There was no need to ask that because he already alleged in his post that God did. Or maybe I’m missing something.

[quote author=ublight post=88482073]before i go into detailed explanation, i want u guys to give me facts that God kills, and i will disprove every fact.



I actually wanted to teach this but the Spirit has been holding me back. Maybe it’s because of you!
So, we’re waiting.

[quote author=Maximus69 post=89268760]Please when it comes to matter of life, God subjects himself to his own words!

Take for example, when he wanted to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, he disclosed it to his friend Abraham, please consider the conversation between the two of them as recorded @ Genesis 18:20-33 but pay rapt attention to verse 23-25!

There Abraham said to God

"I know you that it's unthinkable for you to destroy the righteous along with the wicked"

So in other words, Abraham is saying God can't kill good people!

Therefore whenever any event strikes killing people indiscriminately, know that it's not as a result of God's judgment! James 1:13


Let me ask you a simple question. Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89270492]Have you heard about the finger of God?



All of Scripture is inspired by God. Some parts are literal, some figurative. When Jesus said that He was the door He didn't mean a literal door with hinges, but that He is the way of entry into Heaven. - Ray Comfort.



Let us examine this often misapplied scripture .

“15.And that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16.All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”
~‭‭II Timothy‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You’ll observe scripture appears twice in the above. Once in verse 15 and once in verse 16. But you know what, the Greek words for the two are different. The Greek word for the scripture in verse 15 is “gramma” while the Greek word for the scripture in verse 16 is “graphe”. Also, anytime you see scripture in the New Testament it is always referring to the scripture of the Old Testament, because the New Testament was not yet available at this time.


Now, gramma means content or what was written. On the other hand, graphe means the art of writing. Therefore, looking at verse 16, we can come to the conclusion that it was the art of writing that was inspired by God and not the content or what was written. In other words, God motivated men to write but not always responsible for what they wrote.
Sometimes, men did rely on eye witness accounts as in the case of the mad man of gadarene.


Then also, men that have not come to the fullness of the revelation of God’s nature wrote especially the Old Testament. Because these ones didn’t really know God, they were presumptuous in their writing. Jesus Himself says no one knew God before He came.

“No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Seen means revelation. The nature of God was not revealed to any man until Christ came. Christ is therefore the revelation of the Father.

The more reason the writers of the Old Testament will always attribute everything that happened, whether good or evil to God.

Recall that Job and his 3 friends spoke presumtously what they didn’t know about God. Thereafter, God rebuked and corrected them. This was the pattern in the Old Testament.

However, you’d hardly find any error or inconsistencies in the New Testament ,especially the epistles because the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth had been given when it was written

”Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.“ John 16:13

The Holy Spirit guided New Testament writers into all truth, and not partial truth.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89270059]This man, you still haven’t answered the question. Also, show me a scripture that says God personally wrote the Bible.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89268886]God spoke to Moses face to face. Moses spoke to God as a man speaks to his friend. Is it you sinful, faulty man that will now interpret what he received from God? I believe in the Bible account that says God spoke to Moses as a wonderful, miraculous thing. The shining face of Moses also reminds us of how holy our God is!


Let me shock you.Angels spoke to Moses and not God!

If i asked you who Moses was talking to in the burning bush, I’m sure you’d say it was God, but the New Testament says it was an angel.

“And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.” ~Acts 7:30

I’m also sure that if I asked you on mount Sinai when he went up to receive the law, you’d say it was an angel. But see:


This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
~Acts 7:38

Let me tell you this, and it is very important, NEVER build a doctrine around anything or verse in the Old Testament. The New Testament explains the Old Testament.For you to understand the Old Testament, you must first be grounded in the New Testament. Most of the ministrations in the Old Testament, if not all, was done by angels.

Give me a scripture that says God wrote the Bible.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89267448]Don't get distracted, stay on the topic.

That was smart of you. I thought you said there are no contradictions in the Bible. So because you couldn’t explain all of these, you tried to dodge the question. Hehehe

Moses wrote the book of Genesis.

He was not in the garden.

Apparently, the narrative was communicated to him through a vision.

In visions, types and symbols are used to represent words, thoughts, things and ideas.

He wrote this down the way he received it, apparently without understanding.

The man in Christ gives it the correct interpretation.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89261104]Are you saying that the account of Adam and Eve in Genesis should not be taken literally? Is Adam a myth?

Adam was not a myth, neither was Eve. My explanation is clear enough, even to a 5-year-old .

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89256587]What about talking serpents?


It seems i am being misunderstood. For the record, I am not an atheist. I am a child of The Most High.

First, the Genesis 3 account is a typology and should not be taken literally. The idea of a talking serpent is spooky, not because it wasn’t possible, but because it wasn’t necessary. The devil wasn’t speaking through a serpent, the devil was the serpent. Better still, the serpent is a representation of the devil. We see this in the book of revelation where the devil is constantly referred to as the serpent or dragon.

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
~‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;”
‭‭~Revelation‬ ‭20:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Notice that phrase “serpent of old “.

The tree of life is not a tree, it is a person. A tree cannot give life.

“In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭~John‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The tree of life is therefore Christ.

What about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? That is a typology for the law or works. The fruit of a tree can not defile a man .

“Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.””
‭‭~Matthew‬ ‭15:11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Fruit symbolizes words

“A man’s stomach shall be satisfied from the fruit of his mouth; From the produce of his lips he shall be filled.”
~‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭18:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So what then is the interpretation of the Genesis 3 account.

God preached the gospel ( tree of life) to Adam and Eve. They acted in unbelief and chose works (tree of the knowledge of the good and evil), via the temptation of satan. This is sin.
Sin leads to death.

While you’re at that, you can also explain to us why there’s only one mad man of Gadarene here:


“Then they sailed to the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee. And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes, nor did he live in a house but in the tombs.”
~‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:26-27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Yet this account says there’re two:

“When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way.”
‭‭~Matthew‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

According to you, God personally wrote the Bible. Surely, God doesn’t make a mistake. My eyes must be playing tricks on me, eh?

Or maybe you need to consider these two accounts:


“Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.””
~‭‭II Samuel‬ ‭24:1‬ ‭NKJV


‬‬ “Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.”
~‭‭I Chronicles‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I’m sure it’s clear to you who actually moved David to number Israel . God and satan have suddenly formed a tag team,right?

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89231435]You are right about this, and it is pretty obvious to everybody, even to the teenagers in my church . This is low level revelation.

How about the talking serpent in Genesis 3 and Elijah being transported to heaven ?

What about the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, sir?

It’s understandable when some find it difficult to believe that righteousness is only by faith, and not by works. At least, we were once in their shoes before grace enlightened the eyes of our understanding. The most difficult force to overcome is the spirit of religion. I’ve come to realize that it’s easier to convert a non-Christian than a religious Christian.

So what must we do?

We must constantly pray the pauline prayer in the book of Ephesians for them that have not come to the full knowledge of this truth, so that the body of Christ will come to the unity of faith.

“Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:15-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89037018]You don't have to take it literally only when it suits you.



I don’t read the Bible to suit myself. I read with an open and humble heart, thereby allowing the Holy Spirit to guide. Always ready to learn, unlearn and relearn. When you do all of these, you’ll know when a portion is literal and when it is a figure of speech.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89036893]"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1:21).

That's where you got it wrong as you can see that the Bible was not written by men carnal men but holy. God used them as you would use a pen to write down a message. You will only end up confused when you take your authority from sinful faulty men over the infallible inspired Word of God.


There you go! Another non-contextual reading of the Bible. Reading the pre-text will definitely give you a better understanding.


“For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”
~‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1:17-21‬ ‭NKJV

Peter writes about a prophecy . What is this prophecy? The prophecy is the inspired word spoken by the prophets concerning the suffering and the resurrection of Christ. Scripture here doesn’t mean the entire Bible. It actually refers to the Old Testament. Recall that at this time, the New Testament was not in existence. So what was spoken by the prophets in the New Testament about Christ was not spoken by the will of man, but these men spoke by the inspiration of the Spirit. Peter is not saying the entire Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but the prophecy concerning Christ. This is why all that was spoken by the prophets concerning Christ in the New Testament was fulfilled. There was no contradictions at all. The same can not be said about other areas. I hope that is clear enough.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89026806]The Bible is correct.



Yes the Bible is correct, especially when we come to understand that everything there shouldn’t be taken literally

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=89026147]It is only Satan that gives half truths and contradictions not the Bible.


Yes, you’re right.But if men who walked in the flesh and didn’t have the full knowledge of God’s nature spoke in the Bible, and some of them even wrote the Bible, then this Bible will always have contradictions and half truth.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=88985868]Who is correct, Pat or Ken? :


I’d rather lean towards Pat than Ken. Pat’s submission is more compelling.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=88988574]Of course, God personally wrote the Bible and handed it out to humans in a language they can understand. If you call on Him He will speak to you in accents clear and still.



It is not entirely true to say God personally wrote the Bible. If He did, there won’t be half truth, contradictions and the like in the scriptures.

IS SANCTIFICATION THE SECOND WORK OF GRACE?

When i became a Christian, I remember being told by an older Christian that the new birth is the first stage of the salvation “process “. In His words:

“ Now that you’re born again, don’t ever think you’re there yet. You still have to go through the second and more difficult stage called sanctification. This is where the real work starts.In this stage, you’ll be purged of your sins so that you can make heaven. This stage is called the second work of grace where you must live holy. Remember without holiness it is impossible to please God.”

Innocently, I nodded in agreement. I went away in trepidation thinking about how i was going to work out my salvation. As i began to study my Bible, I realized that the man was sincerely wrong! I also understood that what this man referred to as sanctification is actually spiritual growth.
I discovered the meaning of sanctification and its implications, and that it is not a process to work out, but a one time event.

Sanctification, just like holiness, means to be set apart , distinct, or to exclusively belong to another. The Greek word is “hagiasmos”.

“But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—”
~‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭1:30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So we can see from the scripture above that Christ is our sanctification. Better still, the sacrifice of Jesus sets us apart from all other race or people. We are now a special race or breed. This special race is called a new creation, or sons of God. New because it is appearing for the first time on earth. The Believer is sanctified in the spirit by the Spirit of God at the new birth.


“elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”
~‭‭I Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

And yet again,


“But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,”
~‭‭II Thessalonians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Did you see that? Salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. The man is saved by the sanctification by the Spirit of God when he believes the truth. What is the truth? The truth is the gospel.

“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So beloved, sanctification is not the second work of grace but the gift of Grace received at the new birth. Glory!

[quote author=davidinchrist post=88943215]I'll quote Paul, one of the greatest apostles of Jesus:
27 I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be Disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27


The greatest problem in Bible interpretation and understanding of the Bible is contextual reading. To fully understand a particular verse or scripture, one must read the pre-text and post-text before bringing the scripture into context. Many are so lazy to do this that lift a verse from the Bible without considering the surrounding text.

Consider the following verse as an illustration:

“Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John”
‭‭~John‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

When you read this verse alone, you’ll come to the conclusion that Jesus baptized some disciples. The narrative changes when you read the post-text which is the next verse:

“(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),”
‭‭~John‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

See? Reading verse 1 in isolation suggests Jesus baptized some disciples. But when we read the two verses together, we arrive at a better understanding of the situation. This is the reason why the body of Christ has not come to the unity of faith which Apostle Paul wrote about.

In like manner, we misunderstand Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:27 because we read this verse out of context. For one to have a better understanding of what he’s trying to relate, one must start reading from verse 24. Also, what does castaway mean in this context?

The Greek word is “adokomos”.

It means to be disqualified. Disqualified from what you may ask? It is to be disqualified or rendered ineffective for ministry. It is not disqualification from salvation. You can not be disqualified from something you received by grace. Nobody deserves to be saved. It is the gift of God.

“Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize? So run to win! All athletes are disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.”
~‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭9:24-27‬ ‭NLT‬‬

How do we know he’s talking about ministry? The answer is in verse 24. He’s not talking about making heaven, Paul is talking about being rewarded for the work we’ve done on earth. He compares the work of the ministry to a race. He’s saying a christian that fails to put his body under will not be effective in his ministry. How does he put his body under? By praying, studying and meditation, fellowship with the brethren, and walking in love. This is the discipline of the body which enables the Christian to do exploits for God, and go on to earn a prize which is his reward in heaven. This is not about losing salvation at all.

May Jesus Give You Light.