₦airaland Forum

[quote author=phenor post=76520413]Lies from the pit of hell. So you can have salvation and continue to steal, fornicate, tell lies, cheat and do yahoo yahoo, kill people and still make heaven?

I don’t know if the person that post this actually read the Bible at all.... ask God to open your eyes to the real truth in the word.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling



Mr. Works, maybe you need to consider what Jesus says here:

“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.”
~‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:31‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Notice Jesus didn’t say ex-harlots and ex-publicans here. This is for the religious folks out there and those that erroneously believe their works will take them to heaven. Works in Christ Jesus will only earn you reward in heaven, it is not what saves you. You’re saved by faith in the finished work of Christ.

I initially posted this on a thread but i had to repost it again.

On this matter of once saved always saved I’ve known for a couple of years that eternal security is irrevocable. Why am i so sure? Because the Bible tells me so . All i needed to do to be saved was to believe and confess the Lordship of Christ and His resurrection.

“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
~‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This salvation is a gift and not a reward. You work for a reward but a gift is not worked for , but received.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

See? It is a gift and not of works so that people like you won’t boast in their works.

It also says the gift of salvation is a guarantee. This means it can not be lost or reversed.

“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So you’re sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is a guarantee of your inheritance in heaven. And yet in another place it is written:

“who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”
~‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭1:22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jesus says this Spirit can’t be lost. It shall abide with you forever:

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—”
~‭‭John‬ ‭14:16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

It says forever. Glory!

This thing is too good to be true, right? Yeah, that’s why we call it the gospel- good news.

I used to brand those preaching eternal security heretic until the Lord dealt with my heart. It can only be received by a heart that is established in grace. Naturally, people want to work so that they can glory in their works but Christ is calling us into His rest. The jews also wanted to work.

“Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.””
‭‭~John‬ ‭6:28-29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Many quote this verse:

“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;”
~‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

But they always ignore the next verse:

“for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.”
~‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So you’re not the one working it out but God through you.

The only way we can enter into His rest is to cease from our own works and believe.

I’ll encourage you to pray this:

“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:17-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[quote author=IME1 post=88889305



Well, I really meant no harm. I’m sorry if i hurt you in any way. The point is God doesn’t get angry at all. He is not man and so should not be compared to man.The fact that we get angry doesn’t mean God must also get angry. Truly, we come across scriptures that seem to suggest that He gets angry but these are mostly figures of speech. In the Bible we’ve read the “foolishness of God”, but that doesn’t mean God is foolish. It only indicates people’s perception of God. In like manner, God’s anger is also to indicate people’s perception of God as the one reacting to what satan or the law is responsible for.

Then also, I didn’t only respond to the anger issue. I responded to three different things in your post. One of these is the meaning of castaway.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=88690164][b]Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man, Or The Devil?



The writer started well I must say but I disagree on the aspect of God’s sovereignty. It’s true that God can do all things but He won’t do all things, as a matter of principle. For example, God can not override the will of a man. So, in that sense He’s not sovereign.

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭NKJV

It says here that man must walk in all that God has prepared for him‬‬ before the foundation of the world, for that man to fulfill destiny. If this man fails to do this, then he’ll not fulfill destiny because the destiny of man is not cast in stones. He must take responsibility.

Myles Munroe once said that the most fertile place on earth is the burial ground or cemetery because it contains the highest deposit of unfulfilled dreams and destiny. So this means it is not everyone that fulfills destiny. God can not do anything about it because man fails to take responsibility, and as a matter of principle, God will not override this man’s will. Thus, because God can not do anything about it, then He’s not sovereign.

Second, satan doesn’t need to take permission from God to perpetuate evil on earth- he already has the authority.

“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭5:19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


People erroneously use Job 1:12 to support this false belief.


“And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person. ” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.”
~‭‭Job‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Here, God was merely stating the obvious. Essentially, God was telling satan, “You don’t need my permission, you already have the power/authority.

When we read the first chapter of Job, we usually fail to take into consideration two important aspects of satan.That satan is a:

a. thief
b.liar

A thief doesn’t need permission to steal. The day a thief asks for permission to steal is the day he ceases being a thief.

The devil is called the father of lies in the Bible. He’s therefore incapable of telling the truth. The only truth he tells is half-truth! As a result, you can’t build a doctrine on what satan says. Moreover, it’s written in a certain place.

“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?”
‭‭~II Corinthians‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So what fellowship has light (God) with darkness (satan) such that the two of them will sit in a place and hold discussion about how to run the world. How pathetic that we’ve now relegated God to the same level as satan.

Have you not read that satan has been banished from heaven and so he no longer has access to the throne of God.

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.”
~‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[quote author=IME1 post=88795839]

[quote author=IME1 post=88795839]

[quote author=IME1 post=88795839]Madegreatbygrace my prayer for you and I and all is that we make heaven, we spend eternity in the presence of God with Jesus as our light, we be counted worthy as His children and our works will be tried by fire and not found wanting, in Jesus mighty name, amen.




I laughed out loud and so hard such that my wife was woken from sleep when i got to the part where you wrote that you’re praying for me so that i can make heaven. That’ll be a wasted effort my brother. I am already in heaven and i say that with utmost humility. Why am i so sure? Because the Bible tells me that heaven is for those that are saved. All i needed to do to be saved was to believe and confess the Lordship of Christ and His resurrection.

“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
~‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This salvation is a gift and not a reward. You work for a reward but a gift is not worked for , but received.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

See? It is a gift and not of works so that people like you won’t boast in their works.

It also says the gift of salvation is a guarantee. This means it can not be lost or reversed.

“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So you’re sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise which is a guarantee of your inheritance in heaven. And yet in another place it is written:

“who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”
~‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭1:22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jesus says this Spirit can’t be lost. It shall abide with you forever:

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—”
~‭‭John‬ ‭14:16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

It says forever. Glory!

This thing is too good to be true, right? Yeah, that’s why we call it the gospel- good news.

So my friend, you can see it is you that really needs the prayers!

I’ll encourage you to pray this:

“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:17-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[quote author=IME1 post=88795839]Hi Madegreatbygrace,



Castaway, a very pitiable condition. The Bible says if your heart judges you and God forgives you, is God's forgiveness not greater than you, your heart and your judgement? This is what the prodigal son escaped and Peter, but King Saul, the adulterous woman, Pilat, King Agrippa, Cain and Judas missed it and by themselves cast....



Castaway is not actually a pitiable condition, it is your wrong understanding of that word that is pitiable! The Greek word is “adokomos”.


It means to be disqualified. Disqualified from what you may ask? It is to be disqualified or rendered ineffective for ministry.

“Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize? So run to win! All athletes are disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.”
~‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭9:24-27‬ ‭NLT‬‬

How do we know he’s talking about ministry? The answer is in verse 24. He’s not talking about making heaven, Paul is talking about being rewarded for the work we’ve done on earth. He compares the work of the ministry to a race. He’s saying a christian that fails to put his body under will not be effective in his ministry. This is not about losing salvation, or not believing that the blood of Jesus is enough to cleanse one from sins.

[quote author=IME1 post=88795839]Madegreatbygrace are you yet a parent? Did you grow with your parents?
Do you get angry with your children? Did your parents ever get angry at you?

Where have you seen God angry? Where have you seen Him being attributed as being loving?
Myriads and legions and multitudes of scriptures.
It's the loving nature of God that made man, placed him in a perfect garden, sewed him proper clothing and promised him a prepared way out of his sin in Jesus.
God was angry that man had fallen.
God was angry that the Jews He had taken for His own were stiffnecked and stubborn.
God was angry that Cain killed Abel.
God was angry that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged in homosexuality and even tried to rape His very own angels who He sent to Lot.
God was angry that the people of Egypt maltreated His people.
God was angry that Herod ordered the killing of young boys just to get at Jesus.
God was angry that people killed His prophets and still gave them befitting burials.
God is not happy that even as we have His Word in the Holy Bible translated in English, Yoruba, Hausa, Arabic, Igbo, Urhobo, Ijaw, Bini, Portuguese, Hebrew, Mandarin, Spanish, Latin and all, people still don't want to read, learn, abide and be saved.

God's loving nature is the reason why He sent Jesus Christ.
This sums up His loving nature, because if I begin to list like I did above Seun will charge me for taking up space on his platform.



Hmmmm......I can see that you’re very knowledgeable in the scriptures. I only asked questions and you wrote as if you have known me for eternity. Now let’s go further on. We’ll take them one by one. I think we disagree to agree and no man knows it all. So let’s not be aggressive and thus keep the conversation civil.

The first question is:

Is anger a fruit of the spirit?

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
‭‭~Galatians‬ ‭5:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You’re a believer and so the Spirit of God dwells in you. Therefore, if the Spirit of God in you has no anger in there, then there’s no anger in God and so He can’t be angry.

Second, anger is a reaction and God doesn’t react because he dwells in the realm of eternity. It’s only creatures that are created in time that react. God is self-existing , and He exists outside of time. The same way God can never be surprised because He’s seen the ending before it began. When you see God’s anger or the wrath of God in the Bible, it should not be taken literally. It is a figure of speech signifying God’s inactivity.

My brother, you call God your father, don’t you?
How does it feel being addressed as the son of an angry father, or the son of an angry God ? Think.

[quote author=HammedOlanaija post=88671869]Because it was included in it the last prophet which the other religion doesn't seem to have interest in because he came from and Arabian country and to them,they think all prophet should and must be from isreal.And this same prophet came with the law of Shari'ah which is too tough for them and that was why they refuse to include it in their bibles and ignore the original greek bible.The more reason why you have bibles with different chapters and verses.
But here in Nigeria ,Australia,germany,ghana ,zimbabawe,libya,mecca,cameroon and others
Go to anywhere All Quran will always be the same in its Arabic form.

Even scientists proved it (let's take pharaoh for example,the Quran mentioned how he lived his life and how he dead and still go ahead to tell us he will not decay or turn to fossil) I don't think the christian bible said that in theirs


In the holy Quran


The Christian Bible need not mention irrelevant stuff like Pharaoh’s body not decaying because the Bible was written in light of redemption. It is purely christocentric.

[quote author=IME1 post=88630091]I laugh at you if you think atheists will rot in he'll
It means you don't know God or His mercy...
I know many atheists who on their deathbeds escaped eternal damnation by confessing Jesus as Lord and repenting of their sins...
And I know a few Christians who lost it at the last minute.

Paul tells us that we must pommel our bodies so that we don't lead others to God and be a castaway ourselves (God forbid)
Peter also says you may think you stand lest you fall, so be watchful and pray


Finally the Jesus I know Who extended mercy to the thief crucified next to him and redeemed the adulterous woman can save any atheists or those who believe God but don't believe in Jesus (like Saul before he had the encounter and became Paul).

To all atheists here on NL God loves you and He is slow to anger and quick to mercy and love.
Believe in God your creator, accept Jesus Christmas as your Lord and Saviour (as I do), repent of your sins and by the power of the Holy Spirit live daily in the renewal of your mind, soul and spirit.
The Christian race is not sprint but a marathon.
If you repent and become born again today and expect to be different like a light switch it kid you not it takes a daily peeling off your old ways and gradually unfolding the promises of God as you daily read the Bible, commune with true believers and seek the face of God in daily prayers.

If after you still struggle with addictions like drugs, por.n, matubation, drunkenness, and habits like slothfulness, hot temper, envy, gossip, lewd talks and occultism know that Jesus Himself has given the help you need-
The Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit can deliver you from these as you walk in boldness not timidity to tell Satan daily, 'get behind me'



There are things written here which need explanations. For example, you wrote: I know a few Christians who lost it at the last minute. So my question is, how did those Christians lose their salvation? What did they do wrong? Secondly, how does one become a castaway? Third, does a loving God ever get angry?Thanks.

It seems some don’t understand the message jmoore is passing across. He is not against giving to God to advance the kingdom, he is against tithing being taught in churches as a law.

Giving should be taught in churches as a principle and not as a law.

Is it wrong to pay tithe? Many have asked that question and my reply has always been; is it wrong to give?

The major difference is MOTIVE. Under the new covenant, we don’t give because we want to be blessed. We give because we are already blessed in Christ Jesus. We don’t give out of obligation but out of love. To think God blesses you because you pay tithe is missing the point big time. It’s like saying God contradicts Himself in Matthew 5:45 ;

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”
~‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So if God blesses unbelievers who don’t pay tithe, how much more His sons. The New Testament encourages us to give cheerfully and generously, and without compulsion.

[quote author=adonainana post=88430746]Now that since he disobeyed constituted authority,
He will now find himself in hell and rot and burn forever

Smh

I dont know why people never listen


Sorry to disappoint you, but It is written in a certain place that.......

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[quote author=Eulalia post=88366801]2 Kings 2
1
When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
2
Elijah said to Elisha, "Stay here; the LORD has sent me to Bethel." But Elisha said, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went down to Bethel.


[Aside John 3:13, Jesus is called a forerunner in Hebrews 6:20


] “where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
~‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

A forerunner signifies someone who goes in advance to a place where the rest are to follow.Nobody goes to this place before the forerunner. Christ, being our forerunner, opened heaven for the new creature. Elijah was not redeemed at that moment so he wasn’t a new creature. Therefore, he couldn’t have ascended to heaven.

In addition to being the forerunner, Christ is also our first fruit.

“But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,”
‭‭~1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The Hebrew word for first fruit is bikkurim—literally translated to “promise to come.” That is ,promise of the same kind. In this case, Christ being our first fruit means there’s a promise or assurance that those who are Christ- like in nature will enter into the same place He first entered as a forerunner for us.

Now to the small matter of Elijah ascending to heaven in 2 Kings 2:1, it was already explained that the heaven is indeed air or sky, and not the habitation of God. He was transported so that his body was not found. The same happened to Enoch and Moses.

“Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is across from Jericho. And the LORD showed him all the land of Gilead as far as Dan, all Naphtali and the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Western Sea,

Then the LORD said to him, “This is the land of which I swore to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have caused you to see it with your eyes, but you shall not cross over there.” So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.”
~‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭34:1-2, 4-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The emphasis is that their bodies were not found.

[quote author=onlyfacts post=88396644]Meanwhile another pastor said God revealed to him that this was an attempt by the agents of darkness to fast track the coming of the Antichrist with 5G technology and the digital ID vaccine both of which equates to having the 666

Same God tells Daddy Adeboye that this is from HIM and tells pastor Chris that this is from the Antichrist and the agents of darkness to put fear in people's mind??

Waiting to hear from Daddy Oyedepo, Pastor kumuyi and the others as they keep stating opposing and divergent views all from one same GOD!!! SURELY ALL OR MOST OF THESE GO's MENTIONED ABOVE ARE FALSE PROPHETS!!!




It is written in a certain place;

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”
~‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


So God is light, and there’s no darkness in Him. Evil and every form of corruption is darkness. Thus, we can see from the above that God is neither the source nor the author of evil. This implies He’s not responsible for afflicting the world with Covid-19. Evil is from the kingdom of darkness.

I can’t speak for Pastor Adeboye, but he could have been misunderstood. The statement credited to him could mean something like:

“ I’ll use this situation to prove that i am in control, even though the devil meant it for the destruction of the world.”

[quote author=Blakewilli post=88343275]Easter is all about the joyful and glorious redemption of man from the shackles of sin.

Currently, churches, parks and parties cant hold due to the covid-19 but it must be celebrated one way or another.
There's a little easter quiz i prepared for you guys:

When Christ Jesus Ascended, In What Form Was He Taken Up With. Was he purely in his spiritual Form Or was he taken up both flesh and bones?

A N S W E R:
Ascension into Heaven is a purely Spiritual event that involves the re-entry of both the physical components and the spirit & soul into the Kingdom of God. So Christ was taken up wholly. That is; with flesh & bones, spirit and soul.
Luke 24 v 36 - 43; As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them. But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that its i myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see that i have" .And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, " Have you anything here to eat?" .They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.

The ascension(Luke 24 v 50 - 51) Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. While he blessed them, he parted with them and was carried up into heaven. [Notice that no changes were stated before he was carried up]

At first, it sounds strange as to how the human body with bones and flesh can ascend unto Heaven but studying Elijah's Journey into Heaven can clarify a bit of this mystery.
2nd Kings 2 v 9 - 12 says: When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask what i shall do for you before i am taken from you." And Elisha said, "I pray you, let me inherit a double share of your spirit." And he said, "you've asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as i am being taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if you do not see me, it shall not be so" And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire seperated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it and he cried, "My father, my father! the chariots of Isreal and its horsemen!". And he saw him no more.
The interpretation of this passage as it relates to the topic is that the ascension was a very sudden event which is more spiritual than physical as we could see that the chariots of fire were in the spirit realm.
Elijah set this condition; {"if you see me as i am being taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if you do not see me, it shall not be so"} for Elisha to test how advanced he was spiritually and to know if he deserved double share of his spirit. Its only a spiritually active person that can witness the full version of Ascension. To a spiritually blind individual, it will simply seem like Elijah suddenly vanished into thin air. But it was evident that Elisha was spiritually advanced as he fully witnessed the fiery chariots of heaven come down in the spirit realm to ascend Elijah.
This is also how the rapture might be. To people who are left behind, it might seem like people suddenly vanished but more would have taken place in the spirit realm.

In summary, the ascension of Christ Jesus was a spiritual acceptance of his flesh & bone and spirit & soul by God almighty because of his sacrifice for mankind. He is currently seated at the right hand side of God
Praise The Lord!!!

Hosanna . Hosanna. In the highest







If Elijah actually ascended to heaven as you stated, then you’ll be contradicting the word of the Lord in John 3:13


“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
‭‭~John‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88278645]The only hope God is giving all faithful people is EVERLASTING LIFE! John 3:16; Romans 6:23

Those who will rule with Jesus must have been trained by Jesus himself, that's why none of those who died before pentecost can become a born again or have spirit to go to heaven! Matthew 11:11

Heaven is not God's plan for humans but Earth! Psalms 115:16

The only reason why few Christians will go to heaven is because Jerusalem the proposed seat of God's Kingdom on earth has been profaned! Matthew 23:37-38

Even when Jesus was telling his followers this new arrangement of another place where they're going to stay with him to reign, they were confused because there was no such promises before then! John 14:1-4

Take note of Jesus' statement at John 14:2-4, he specifically mentioned that he is "going to prepare a place", this means there was no such plan from the beginning!



[So many times in the Bible, Jesus taught figuratively and so His teachings must not be taken literally. Thus, if the readers is not careful, he’ll completely misunderstand His message.



“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-4


To start with, mansion doesn’t mean your earthly building with expensive furniture, modern devices, lighting and every bling bling you can ever imagine. Here, Jesus used the Greek word “mone “ which means dwelling. Likewise, house is not the regular house you live in. The Greek word is ”oikia “ which means family or household . If you ever think Jesus is referring to a mansion here then you are under a great delusion.


So what is He talking about? He’s going to prepare a place. This place is not actually a “ place “. This place is a person. This place is His body- the body of Christ, where all believers are right now. That is why He said in verse 3 :

“ ..........I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. “

So, where are you now? You are in Him, He is in you . Have you not read it somewhere in the scripture?

“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”
‭‭~Ephesians‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You are where He is. We are now together with Him.Therefore we can rewrite verse 2:


“ In my father’s family, there are many dwellings/room/accommodation : If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a body for you that will accommodate all believers. This body/ place is the body of Christ. The mansion and house are not physical my brother. Glory!
]

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88274254]So why did you jump into the lagoon if you don't know how to swim?

If born again started with Jesus, then what happens to all the faithful servants of God before Jesus?

Since they are NOT born again, can they SEE the Kingdom of God?

[What happens to all the faithful servants of God before Jesus? That’s an interesting question. Notice that Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness. This is imputed righteousness and this righteousness was inputed to him because he believed the gospel in Genesis 12: 3.

“And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭
By believing the gospel he received the forgiveness of sins and inputed righteousness. However, he couldn’t become a new creature because the Holy Spirit hadn’t yet been given then.The same is applicable to all the believers before Christ . They couldn’t also go to heaven immediately they died because the work of salvation in then was not yet complete . Hence, they were kept temporarily in Abraham’s bosom pending the death of Christ.When he died, he went to the place of the dead where Abraham’s bosom was, set free all the believing captives, and gave them eternal life.


“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭ .


“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭~Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53


Since they now bore the image of Christ, they became qualified to ascend to heaven with Christ in a cloud. ]

[quote author=Eviana post=88273120]I think this Op's statement (which was wrongly interpreted) was based on the following scripture verses:


Romans 8:29-30 (KJV)


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[Oh, I thought as much. That is a lazy and noncontexual reading of the Bible. To have a better understanding of the meaning of the verses, everything must be taken in context. God fore knowing the weakness of man, predestined man to be saved in Christ Jesus even before the foundation of the world. In other words, God foreknew that man was going to mess up in the garden of Eden have predestinated all men to be saved in Christ Jesus and Him alone .It’s not saying that some men are predestined to be saved while some are not predestined to be saved. This wrong interpretation of these verses makes mockery of verses like John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The emphasized word here which is “whosoever “means the responsibility to be saved now lies with men and not God. ]

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88252826]Listen to learn, your Pastors are only after your money, they don't care a bit about salvation because they don't believe in it neither will they allow you to be saved!

If you think you know the real meaning of BORN AGAIN

Answer these questions!

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit to be become a born again.

So

(1)What's the meaning of being born of water and spirit?

(2)Were pre-christians servants of God before John (the baptist) born again?

(3)Who initiated the idea of born again?

(4)When did the idea began? Who is the first to be born again?

(5)Was Adam a born again?

(6)Why must people be born again?

Don't use the assumptions of those misinformed churchgoers you give titles "Pastors" in your religious gatherings, use the scriptures to address each question!



[4. Who is the first to be born again? Answer: Jesus Christ. He became born again when he rose from the dead. This is why Romans 8:29 calls Him “first born among many brethren “. Also, Colossians 1:18 says He’s the first born from the dead.]

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88252826]Listen to learn, your Pastors are only after your money, they don't care a bit about salvation because they don't believe in it neither will they allow you to be saved!

If you think you know the real meaning of BORN AGAIN

Answer these questions!

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit to be become a born again.

So

(1)What's the meaning of being born of water and spirit?

(2)Were pre-christians servants of God before John (the baptist) born again?

(3)Who initiated the idea of born again?

(4)When did the idea began? Who is the first to be born again?

(5)Was Adam a born again?

(6)Why must people be born again?

Don't use the assumptions of those misinformed churchgoers you give titles "Pastors" in your religious gatherings, use the scriptures to address each question!



[3. Who initiated the idea of born again? Answer: Jesus Christ ]

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88252826]Listen to learn, your Pastors are only after your money, they don't care a bit about salvation because they don't believe in it neither will they allow you to be saved!

If you think you know the real meaning of BORN AGAIN

Answer these questions!

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit to be become a born again.

So

(1)What's the meaning of being born of water and spirit?

(2)Were pre-christians servants of God before John (the baptist) born again?

(3)Who initiated the idea of born again?

(4)When did the idea began? Who is the first to be born again?

(5)Was Adam a born again?

(6)Why must people be born again?

Don't use the assumptions of those misinformed churchgoers you give titles "Pastors" in your religious gatherings, use the scriptures to address each question!



[5.Was Adam a born again? No, Adam was not a born again. A man is born again when he has the Spirit of God dwelling in him. This is according to John 3: 5. Adam was a natural man and not a spiritual man. 1 Corinthians 15: 46. The spiritual man has the in dwelling Holy Spirit.]

[quote author=Maximus69 post=88252826]Listen to learn, your Pastors are only after your money, they don't care a bit about salvation because they don't believe in it neither will they allow you to be saved!

If you think you know the real meaning of BORN AGAIN

Answer these questions!

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit to be become a born again.

So

(1)What's the meaning of being born of water and spirit?

(2)Were pre-christians servants of God before John (the baptist) born again?

(3)Who initiated the idea of born again?

(4)When did the idea began? Who is the first to be born again?

(5)Was Adam a born again?

(6)Why must people be born again?

Don't use the assumptions of those misinformed churchgoers you give titles "Pastors" in your religious gatherings, use the scriptures to address each question!



[1. Except a man be born of water and the Spirit.......... How can man be born of both water and the Spirit? The fact is that it is impossible to be born both of water and the Spirit. A man can only be born of the Spirit. So then why did Jesus say both water and Spirit? Jesus didn’t actually mean water and Spirit, He meant water which is Spirit. The Greek word translated “and” is actually “Kai”. This Greek word has a double application. It can either mean “and” or “which is “ ( that is).If you did a careful study of the scripture, you’d notice Jesus using water to represent the Holy Spirit. For example in John 4: 14 and John 7 : 38-39. Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water .............. So water is just a typology of the Holy Spirit, or you can say water and Spirit are essentially the same. ]

Are there scriptures that support predestination in the Bible ?I’m a little confused here.

@ Janosky. Oh, I see. You err!It's because the dictionary meaning of Father is different from the biblical meaning. Father in this case means "source". This implies that the life of Jesus when He walked the earth has its source from the Father. It's as simple as that.

Also understand this. The Jesus of the four gospel is different from the Jesus of the epistles. The Jesus of the gospels is the anointed one, who through descent, set aside His rights and privileges, for the purpose of redemption. The Jesus of the epistles is the exalted, glorified and resurrected Christ. The same Spirit, but different offices. As a point of emphasis, in the gospels, He's referred to as Jesus Christ but in the epistles He's referred to as Christ Jesus or Jesus Christ our Lord. The Jesus of the gospels was not all- knowing but the resurrected Christ is omniscient.This is supported by Philippians 2: 5 -11.

@Biblespeaks I don't know why this is open to arguments. It's been established in Hebrews 1 that the Father himself called Jesus God- Hebrews 1vs 8.Isaiah 9:6 calls Him mighty God. So, the deity of Jesus Christ should not be debated. Also, the concept of Jesus being called a son should be understood. Son, as it applies to Christ, does not mean "pikin " . The Greek word translated son is uihos. It means someone/ something that has the same nature or substance as the other.

From your post, you seem to suggest that man is saved by works. I also noticed you didn't use any scripture from the epistles to back up your claim. That's interesting.

I think I made my points simple enough to understand. The fact that the old testament says God struck Uzzah doesn't mean it is true. That was why i gave you some examples with Moses. I can even give you more. Who allowed death? To answer that we must know how death enters the world, which is through sin ( Romans 5:12).Are you going to blame God for that too? What is death? Death means separation. Death belongs to the kingdom of darkness where Satan reings. One of the tools of the kingdom of darkness, which Satan uses is death.

Dear Muttleylaff, many people think the old testament explains the new. But that is not the case. It's the new testament that explains the old. The old testament contains portions of the truth but the new testament contains the full truth. Thus if you don't understand the new testament, you'll never understand the old testament.

Remember the words of Jesus in John 1:18 :

" No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten son who is in the bosom of the Father has declared him. "

What does this mean? It means before Jesus came to the earth, no one really knew God. No one had a complete and accurate knowledge of God. Jesus came to reveal the nature and character of the Father. So, all the old testament writers, prophets, patriarch and heroes that came before Jesus didn't really know God.

Why was that? Because the Spirit of God didn't dwell in them , they weren't given revelations and understanding.

If I asked you who Moses was talking to in the burning Bush account in exodus, you'll most probably tell me it was God. However acts 7: 30 makes us to understand that Moses was talking to an angel. Also, if I asked you who Moses was conversing with on mount Sinai, you'll also tell me it was God. But the book of acts 7:38 and 7:53 tells us it was an angel. This was also corroborated by Hebrews 2:2 and Galatians 3:19

So what's my point? You can not rely on the information provided by the old testament to build a doctrine. The new testament validates the old testament.

So who killed Uzzah? It was definitely not God. Uzzah broke a law and committed a sin. The bible calls the law ministry of death ( 2 corinthians 3: 7).So the law itself ministers death without the input of God.Once a man breaks a law, he dies. It's not God that is responsible for this death because death is God's enemy.Therefore, Satan wields death and not God

From Numbers 4:5-15, we understand that the ark must be moved only by the levites. Uzzah may have been a levite, but the levites were instructed to move the ark using the carrying ropes. They were not permitted to touch the ark. To touch it was a capital offence under Hebrew law and also a sin.

Did God kill Uzzah ? No, He didn't. God does not minister death. He ministers life!

I'm sure this must be old story because pastor Kumuyi doesn't emphasize things like this anymore.Sometime ago, he came out to admit that he made some errors in the work of the ministry. He then promised to correct some of these wrong teachings before he departs.

[The believer is not the man that doesn't sin. He's just that man that doesn't enjoy sin anymore. So,if a "believer" returns to his evil way, then it means he wasn't really saved in the first place.quote author=Olusholasimon post=76513763]My question please.
if a believer return to his evil way despite confessing & accepting Jesus & died will he be saved.

Sin our sins are not written against us again then we don't need to ask for the forgiveness of sins again.

What's your own definition for salvation or being saved ??

Thanks so much bro[/quote]