₦airaland Forum

@duduspace
I agree there's stuff we don't know about the brain. In fact, we don't know an amazing lot of things,and the fact we accomplished all we have using ten per cent of our brains makes one wonder what the 90% unexplored territory can do. Scientists don't even know exactly how neurons work. So many mysteries. I watched a documentary the other day on the Cosmos, about how time is actually fluid,and 'time' on earth differs from time in outer space. The faster a craft gets to the speed of light,the faster the astronauts gain time and get younger. Of couse we don't have anything that travels at that speed yet. Worm holes too,and the Twin Paradox. And how man may be able to manipulate time if they could create and link two wormholes (in theory) but they're certain the holes would collapse on the spacecraft because 'It seems as if the universe conspires to make sure they would not succeed',according to the cosmologists. Fascinating.

There's stuff we do know. Drugs,like mushrooms and LSD, stimulate serotonin in the brain,making it go haywire,and producing hallucinations. NDEs studied in hospital ICUs have normal serotonin activity,and so weren't hallucinating. Next they thought,since the heart had stopped and wasn't pumping oxygen, the hallucinations were produced by decreased oxygen to the brain. But all NDEs clinically studied had sufficient oxygen for normal brain activity. That was from Science Digest.

Perhaps it's the brain, though researchers mostly don't think so. And perhaps it's not.

bindex:
If we are to go by the writings of the bible or the koran we will see that any time God kills men, give orders that men should be killed, tell men to rape and enslave each other, scarifice their children unto him he is God and he is good but any time man does it, he is bad.

I actually searched the Bible. Nowhere did God tell men to rape or enslave each other, but he did send Israelites to war and Israelites did wipe out entire cities and tribes. But rape is such a dreadful evil that when people from the tribe of Benjamin raped a man's wife to death in Judges (20-23,I think) the other eleven tribes went to war against them and almost annihilated them.They attacked their own sub-tribe and killed all the men,women and children,exactly as they would foreign tribes. It seems that was how war was fought in those times and until recent history. When your warriors departed for war the fate of the entire nation depended on the outcome.Defeat meant certain death or enslavement for an entire people. I have an idea why God would tell the Israelites to wipe out certain tribes,but it's a long theory,and has to do with the fact that He has an enemy,who is also our enemy, and He waged war against people who served this enemy,wiping them out.And when Israel itself served his enemy,other gods who are real spiritual entities,God waged war against them too. Isreal suffered defeat in war,death and enslavement.

According to the Bible, God has companions he made,of differing beauty and power.One of them was so powerful he believed he could be God,and could take the throne,ruling over all creation. He convinced a third of the entities in Heaven that he could do it too,and so powerful is this creature,,that a legion of other spirits believed he could succeed,and they cast their lot with him.
A war ensued,and the enemy of God and his army was defeated and thrown out of the spiritual area God occupied.They could no longer reside there. The spirit realm is so vast that it is superimposed on the physical realm,and blankets the infinite universe,including earth. So God's enemy and his army were thrown out,and they occupied other spirit planes.The war wasn't over,though. At a time known to both sides, there will be a final showdown, and the enemy of God and other spirits who had chosen him over God,and were now in the enemy's image, will be defeated and forever confined to a terrible spirit plane,from which they cannot escape.

God made man. It appears as if he made men[i] twice[/i],in Genesis. The first order was light, the cosmos,sea/land/vegetation,the seasons, sea life, then animal life,including men. But it appears something happened that eradicated animals,including men,and affected land and vegetation. Before the second creation account,Genesis says there was no man to till the ground.The second order of creation was Man ( a single unit,as opposed to the many the first time),vegetation and animals. The other things were still in place,he merely remade that which had dimished.

It seemed the second model was an improvement on the first.God brought animals to him and he named them,a game they both seemed to enjoy. He was obviously delighted in the creature that was in his image (when He looked at its spirit,God saw a reflection of himself). Flesh was not designed to last forever. Biological death was perfectly natural.After man dies,his spirit,in the image of God,would reside with its likeness. You could tell they were familiar with biological death because neither God (nor the enemy who came later) needed to explain what it was. And then his enemy came by,and caused something to happen which had happened beforebin the spirit realm: he made creatures God made to choose him over God. He knew the truth, he had a history,and knew the consequences, but this new creatures didn't. When they choose the Usurper over God, they were re-made in His enemy's image. They chose to be recreated in the enemy's image,supplanting the image of God with his enemy's image,his inclinations,his character! How devastated God must have been! How agonising to look upon man's spirit and see his enemy reflected at him. They could no longer be together and so were separated. And the image of the enemy would be in every spirit that these creatures ever produced,and so on.

However it really came about, through the symbolic eating of this mystery fruit,God's image was overrun and the enemy's image,and therefore his inclinations,became the lot of man. And that's what sin is. It is the supplanted image of God, the image of the enemy,in our spirits,covertly or overtly expressing itself. And it is getting rid of that evil image and having the original image of God return to our spirit, that salvation is. That was what Christ did. His death is all that is necessary to kick out the image of the enemy and replace it with God. And such is Christ's stature and prestige and power in the spirit realm that every spirit entity knew his death was enough to do it.

Your spirit is not in your brain, so when God's image is back, you will feel the same,you're still you, but your spirit is different. Your spirit is also you,but it is designed to function in the spirit planes.It slumbers,hidden within you,until it is awakened,animated in the image of God,and now able to communicate with God freely,in the spirit plane God resides in.And will go to be with Him after biological death,because like follows like and seeks after like.

It is this fellow,who is also you, that takes to the spirit realm like fish to water,because that's its environment.

Occultists learn how to awaken their spirits, take it out of their flesh and to spirit planes where its Image Likeness and his army, patrol. They control what these people see there,or experience. It is impossible for any spirit that is in the image of God's enemy,to reside with God after death,irrespective of how 'good' or 'nice' or harmless the biological man was: it was never about the mind or flesh,which is temporal. It's about whose image your spirit is molded in at death.

That's why God-belivers have active spirits and occultis have active spirits and both groups can access different spirit planes,while alive in the flesh. That's why both groups KNOW these entities are real, and no amount of atheist argument wil sway them. The communicate in the spirit,but cannot prove it empirically.

Hell is merely a spirit's inability to go to where God is in the spirit realm,because it's not in His image. They go to his enemy,who undermines everything God does.He and his powerful generals pervert and mimic everything God does,flashing many dazzling counterfeits and sham salvations,until a man is deceived or confused into worshipping them as God.

These gods are real entities in the spirit realm,some ruling over spirit areas that cover physical geographical areas,where countries are situated,or planets and stars.I know it all sounds preposterous, but as everyone will eventually discover, disbelief in their existence absolutely has nothing to do with the fact of their existence. The truth about them may have been garbled or distorted, filtered as they are through human beings,but they are real.
There is a God and He has an enemy,and his enemy rules this world with his army Men do his will because,although some are unaware of his image in them, we all find evil and our baser instincts easier to indulge,more natural. We tend towards evil on our own,without his help most of the time. We have made the world what it is. Not God.

Wicked pipu.You know perfectly well she meant Troy.
I agree jare,Lady Kool. You get beta eye. Brad was to die fer in Troy.
Joaquin insists on the rap BS? Oy vay And I really liked the guy. Was rooting for him and all that in Gladiator and not caring a bit when Crowe got his comeuppance. Shebi he scuttled to his dead wife after death. What did poor Commodus get?Nada.   

Oh! Oh! Oh! My eyes!
That can not be Phoenix!

You have issues with the Bible. Don't we all? What I don't understand about its teachings are a mile long. But I have come across truth there as well. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I'm not emphasising religious doctrine here. I don't know enough about it to argue for or against it. But I do think every individual should find out precisely what the truth is about spiritual matters. Separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak,and hold on to what is true. You concede there might be a spiritual sphere. I merely suggest we find out more,given how weighty it is, because it concerns what happens to us after we die. I've read several books on the subject,including extensive case studies, and what struck me most was the utter helplessness of people to influence events once they were in those places.

I think one should find out more. Spiritual things shouldn't necessarily be coloured with religous overtones.

bindex:
I spent the day reading some few articles on the NDE and I will likely agree that death is not the end to everything. Its possible, all I know is that the 72 virgins, river of wine, golden building , new jerusalem and the worship of a deity for enternity as written in the bible or the koran is all a fiary tale.

I guess a man knows what a man knows.
I think a fatwa or something was pronounced on Rushdie because a fictional character in his book dared to dream that the Q'ran was written by human beings instead of Allah. Or something. I don't happen to think the Bible is divinely-inspired. When those men were writing there was nothing like a Bible,and they couldn't even conceive of it. But if they were right that a spiritual plane exists,and millions of people have experienced it in modern times, is it possible they might be right about a few other things as well, even if they aren't right about everything? Don't we have a right to know what really happens after we die, if death is not the end? Should we wait until the fact of our own death to find out?I don't know about you, but that's a bigger risk than I'm willing to take.

I saw the guy in Deja Vu, the Denzel movie.
I didn't know he dated Jolie.

@duduspace
Noted.
God as a placeholder for the limits of human intelligence. You know, I like that.
Oh yeah. Those good old Buddhists monks. Well, you know mind over matter.
Yes there are little understood aspects to the brain. But those who can apparently access it,like the deaf mute who could control his immediate environment,achieve results that can be evaluated empirically, I think. They don't practice on any other plane but the physical.

As for NDEs being the brain being mischevous, you might be a little surprised to find most researchers don't attribute it to some mysterious part of the brain they don't understand.They understand the process all right; they know the exact chemical processes involved at death, and they have sought to duplicate NDEs and the planes experienced,without success. And those who have experienced it call it 'impossible' and 'unbelievable' but 'real'. On a scale of one to ten, reality-wise,dreams are a 1, our physical senses rated a 5 and the other plane rated a ten!That was how real it was.It's most intriguing

You know one of the reasons I suspect there's something out there? Human nature itself. We're so corrupt, and there's no real good to be found in us. Anarchy is the natural state of man,in that it allows the beast within him free ad true expression.Why else are war and conflict the background to horrific,inhumane acts?History is written in blood, in tears,in darkness. Civilization would tame the beast,leaving it some masquerade to hide behind, but can you count how many times the true nature of things has stipped away that frail pretext? How may evil men go free, who have chosen to indulge their vilest instincts? A man tears other men from their families, kills children, rapes wives,murders brothers. The news are filled with the base things civilised man to do each other. Isn't there something in us that demands these men render account for their actions? If we think men should give account of themselves,why should God,if indeed he exists and issued men the free will that is so evident,not demand accountability from us? Is our inherent sense of justice perhaps part of the 'image of God'? Or whatever it is that exists and is confronted in those ten-scale reality spirit planes?

Professor Ayer,an Oxford scholar and avowed atheist,flatlined at an hospital. He was in this plane, he said, and was in the presence of a light that somehow made him cognizant of the fact that it ruled the universe. Communication was not by talking,he said. When he was revived four minutes later,he called the experience 'unbelievable'and said he now knew death was not the end. But he didn't say anything about whether he now thought 'God' was real.If atheists agree a spiritual plane is possible, shouldn't it be cause for deeper personal investigation? Don't you have a right to have ALL the facts,so that you may arrive at your own informed conclusions?

Hi My name is Karmamod Bale and I am a Bond-basher.

When y'all ready to give credit where it's due, let me know. 
Better how?He isn't spying. He has an identity crisis and it all ends when he discovers himself. Bond is the ultimate spy, and you ladies know you like him,however much you protest. Karma has somehow managed to see all his movies. She wants to ruffle his soot-coloured hair and sip champagne from his shell-like ears. She wants to wear his tuxedos and fire his gun. 

OMG Doyin13! I never saw that!
James Bond/Jason Bourne.
Fantastic homage!

bindex:
This goes a long way to show that even when people are pronouced clinically dead, their beliefs still acompany them and helps in forming what ever it is they tend to experience, moslems see their deceased relatives, same with hindus, shirks, chriatians etc. What then does that tell you? Why does every body seem to see his/her relatives regardless of their religion? some also see the deities in which they believe in regardless of their religion. There is much more to all these things than meets the eyes I must say but to declear that christainity, islam, hinduism or judaism alone has an answer to all these things is a farce. Moslems see mohammed, Christians see Jesus, athiest see some strange things(neither jesus or mohammed) children see their parents etc. This alone should be able to give you an insight into how beliefs constitute or plays a very important role in a persons life as long as his brian is still functioning.

There is more to this than meets they eye. And that's after reading a single article on wikipedia. Believe me, you want to read a few more books on the subject. You quote from Professor Moody's study, I think. I don' think I made any declarations concerning a religion. I merely stated there is an invisible,spiritual dimension, and that quite a lot of atheists have experienced it and accept that,quite a few having to modify their beliefs. For instance, in 1988 Professor Ayer, an Oxford university professor and avowed atheist, flatlined for four minutes at the University College hospital in London. Whie medical personnel worked on him, he said he left this world and was in the presence of a light. This light was like looking into the sun,but it didn't hurt his eyes. This light somehow communicated to him that it ruled the universe. Then he was resusitated. Professor Ayer called the experience 'positive' and said he wasn't sure death was the end of everything anymore. If it was some brain thing, all those brilliant researchers would have their answer and stop looking for answers, right?Yes, a lot of the world's finest universities are still looking into it.

Gamine Faru, about the aso ebi,abi?

How would you know? Shebi you don't watch Bond naw.  :
So you watch all his movies.
Love that theme do ya?
Teren teren
teren ren
reeen ren te-ren-ren

What freaks thou aaaaaart  

Heston,well,I forget the season but Joey had been screeching he got a part in a Heston movie,all day.Then he went off somewhere and came back hours later stinking all to hell,then dashed there in the nick of time.He snuck into Heston's trailer to take a bath. The old man caught him and gave him some BS advice,then chuckled and said 'This business' when an awed Joey scampered out.    

Yeh I remember Brucie.   He gave Ross an eyeful,and that dindinrin too went "I'm the man,  too, you know, ?
Oh and the part where a horrified Pheebs sees Chandler and Monica making out, and she starts coming on to Chandler to get him to confess, and they went at each other to see who would 'crack' first.

I don't know about 4400's theme.The thing just never grew on me.

About the film reviews and articles,great! Just write and post them on this thread so it comes naturally and you don't feel weird or self-conscious and strain to write em. I'll just email them to the guy. Don't fret about length. Use any moniker you like:pseudonym,first name only,NL handle,whatever you like. I don't know about payment. He's a friend of a friend,and I don't know how the zine is run. But I think it's likely they pay for published material.
Spiked, Karma, Gamine,Sisi and Ex,you're all so writing for this zine.

I read Ludlum's trilogy aeons ago.The Bourne movies follow the book's plot very loosely indeed. Right now I don't recall anything they've in common except the name Bourne and the amnesia. Man, those books were good.

Now ya see him now ya don't.
Some series have great theme songs don't they?The Sopranos has the best series theme music mine ears have been pleasured by in recent times. Grey's is ok. Smallville was ok too. I HATED Desperate Housewives clanging bell theme. Alias ok. Don't much care for Boston Legal's and 4400's. Even if I could forgive 'Scofield' for being so beautiful and yet gay,I don't know what the heck Prisonbreak's theme is,since the series irritates the hell ouf of me. Forgotten Heroes theme,I could only put up with one season. Yeah, Friends theme song was great.

Sorry about your friend. Can't she take medicine to get better and pray for God's healing? They're not mutually exclusive naw.

Gamine I know where you can get some great bargains on the aso ebi o,make dem no cheat you.

I remember that one! Ohhh many memories are rushing back o. And there isn't anything quite like it anymore. Nothing with quite the charm or the zaniness. Joey and Chandler made me laugh the most,I think.Oh I don't know. They were all so great. A surprising number of great stars had cameos,though. Even Charlton Heston! The episode where Julia Roberts steals Chandler's clothes,you could tell what she was up to naw.Oh man I miss that series too.

spikedcylinder:
How can you compare any of those movies to Bourne? The Spy Who Loved Me? Are you kidding me? Even the mojo version, "The Spy Who bleeped Me" is better than that movie.
I will bite off the head of anyone who asks how I know the mojo version.

Porn Maharaji !!!!!
My sides o I have almost been knackered of laughter this spiked no go kill persin
Yes o, every one of those movies was better than Bourne's. And you have to reckon with the fact that a lot of them were made way back when ,and were still better flicks.  As for the present, you seriously want to compare Casino Royale to any Bourne movie? Ah begi.

bindex:
There are also many clinically dead patients that have been resuscitated and never saw or experienced anything all. Christians, Moslems, Hindus etc that have experienced the so called out of body experiences all witnessed what their beliefs told them will happen when they die, Moslems see Mohammad the Moslem heaven Moslem angels etc while Christians see Jesus, Christians heaven and the angels etc. What does that tell you about the so called out of body experience?
What are the similar description of Zeus, Brahma and Jehovah? What about Allah and Sango? do their share any similar description? Do the Chinese Gods have the same attributes with Allah or the shirk Gods?

And what about atheists who held no prior religious convictions and yet experienced the spiritual dimension after clinical death?

It's not at all as simple as you make out,and if it could be discountenanced like that some of the world's most prominent scientists and universities wouldn't have been investigating if for decades. The resusitated didn't necessarily see beings from religious literature,and a lot of their experiences are similar and have motifs in common,irrespective of race,background,education and religious belief.That's how scientists could determine a pattern to them.

For starters you may wish to examine the refences and further reading material on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience

I can also list a few of the hundreds of books,articles and research findings in the area by scientists,psychiatrists,psychologists,doctors and university professors,many of them atheists prior to their investigations. A staggering number of them discarded atheism after research, but touted man as divine instead,and birthed Omega and New Age and other spiritist groups. I guess that's their way of acknowledging the spiritual and the afterlife without bringing God into it.

Atheism seemed to have moved beyond the point of denying there isn't a spiritual dimension.
Modern medicine has made it possible to resuscitate an untold number of clinically dead patients and they came back with somewhat similar 'good' and 'evil' experiences,labelling the encounter 'unbelievable',and this includes high-ranking military men and Oxford professors. There has been extensive scientific research into clinical death experiences and out-of-body experiences,with a vast number of documented cases and books on the subject from some of the world's leading psychiatrists,psychologists,doctors and reseachers. Most of them were atheists but the undenyable proof of the 'other world' converted most from atheism to New Age and Omega. From Carl Jung to Elizabeth Kubler Ross,prominent Yale and Harvard professors and scientists, they conducted research into death and spirituality,were astonished to discover there is a dimension invisible to the physcial eyes, but this led them into the occult,stuff practiced by the ancients and which still works,apparently. 

It's interesting that in ages past where vast geographical distances separated nations and tribes,they somehow managed to come up with gods of staggeringly similar descriptions and attributes.

Information on scientific research into the after life are plentiful. I could list a hundred books and articles on the subject from modern scientists. You'd be surprised at the number of people that have experienced it, and almost anyone who's been at a deathbed will recount something bizarre the dead person saw or said moments before death. A spiritual dimension exists and there is more to life than what your five senses present you with. It puts the question of whether God and other spiritual entities exist in a whole new light.

Saw a video of Rai's traditional wedding to Bachan's son. She had on little make-up and looked like some farm girl. Her beauty's like 80% make-up. Jolie is way hotter than she is jare.

vescucci:
Y'all are still at I see. I can't wait for Bulldozer Karma to be fully on my side. As it is, she just hates Bond. I want her to love Bourne. And those who go on about how Bond saves the world. The question was never who was more valuable to the world. It was Bond vs. Bourne. Doesn't it just piss you off when MI:5's top agent goes around saying; "The name's Bond, James Bond" It proves he doesn't ever have worthy adversaries. Jason Bourne would never do that cuz he could be dead as a result. I mean it's like walking up to a desk in a hotel and saying, "My name's Jason Bourne. Are the cross-hairs on me now?"
As Spike would say, Shior!

You call that putting up a Bourne defence? The question became who was more valuable to the world when the word VS made an entrance. How does "Bond,James Bond" prove he doesn't have worthy adversaries? I don't see it. Make me. The guy's been up against villains eensy weensy Bourne can only dream about.
Bourne said that? He feels that threatened by Bond? How petty. Why doesn't Bond go about making catty remarks about Bourne? He's the better man.In every way. As for Bond movies that are better than Bourne's,I could name ten off the bat.

Casino Royale (2006)
The Spy Who Loved Me
Thunderball
Tommorrow Never Dies
Goldeneye
From Russia With Love
Live and Let Die
Dr No
Goldfinger
The World is Not Enough
For Your Eyes Only

Ooops! That's more than ten! What can I say? You'd be hard-pressed to find a Bond movie that's not better than Bourne's.
Bond's an Icon. Whatever you say, Bourne is not in his league,and y'all know it in your guilty little Bourne-totin' hearts.

This Faru guy here again?
Gamine you have a stalker.
How romantic.

@Spiked
Ole!
I don't know. I'll ask my friend. But the magazine publisher's a prize-winning journalist, and very hard to impress. So you're going to have to give him good stuff.  Which is stuff you already have,right?

The Tudors.
Lovely.

Gamine answer the gentleman naw.  The silence is killing him softly ooo. You don't want his death on yer cyberconscience do ya?

Unagi. And him squealing like a preschooler when Rach and Pheebs Unagi'd his butt.

Guys, a friend of a friend owns a lovely little magazine: World politics, Arts,culture,travel,business,interviews,photography,etc. Pretty extensive range. Would you like to contribute to the film segment? Film reviews and articles on the oscars,golden globes,Hollywood,Bollywood,Nollywood,emmies,whatever?

I've read some pretty great stuff here, bubbly,witty and sometimes vicious as hell, and it's just the sort of thing he likes. If he likes your stuff you get to contribute regularly to the mag. And you get to do your own thing: write what you like when you like. Let me know Vesc, Karma,iice,Spiked, Sisi,Ex,Gamine,Jk, all?

@iice
Yeh. She turned on the waterworks again on Oprah when the series was ended. Still liked her character though.

Pushaun pushaun thrillers.
Guys, a friend of a friend owns a lovely little magazine: World politics, Arts,culture,travel,business,interviews,photography,etc. Pretty extensive range. Would you like to contribute to the film segment? Film reviews and articles on the oscars,golden globes,Hollywood,Bollywood,Nollywood,emmies,whatever?

I've read some pretty great stuff here, bubbly,witty and sometimes vicious as hell, and it's just the sort of thing he likes. If he likes your stuff you get to contribute regularly to the mag. And you get to do your own thing: write what you like when you like. Let me know Vesc, Karma,iice,Spiked, Sisi,Ex,Gamine,Jk, all?

I'll copy this to the other thread.

You managed Ross?
What did Rachel do to you naw?

Oh I liked Monica. But did you notice she got shriller and more manic the longer the series went on? I dimly recall she wasn't that loud at the beginning. I guess they needed to make her personality as distinct from Rachel's as possible.
Just how many awards is Slumdog Mil slugging away in its kitty?Must see it this week.

bindex:
A child is born in a small village in eastern Mongolia. The child's parents are farmers. The chance of this child recieving an education beyond primary school is very slim. The child's parent's beliefs are based on Taoism for the most part because that is how they were brought up but they are not too strict about it. They bring up their child the same way and with the same principles and beliefs. Most of the other villagers there believe in the same principles.
This person was never aware of Christianity as a religion. This person was not aware of a Christian God,The Bible or Jesus. A Mongolian version of the Bible was never made available to this person. That person was simply ignorant of the fact that Christianity even exists and is practiced by hundreds of millions of people.
Since this person was never baptized, nor went to church, nor did any of that which your God requires. . . . would this person be condemned to hell?If so, would you agree that this is an extremely unfair situation for this person?

Valid question. An important one too,since, you know,most of mankind fall into that category. Christianity has a bewildering array of doctrines and beliefs,you'll find few points of which we ALL agree. And Christianity at its crudest and most absurd is to be found on African shores. It doesn't help that some Christians are absolutely certain they know the mind of God and exactly how he's going to judge humanity. They fling vague pity at those who are not fortunate enough to believe as they do, but look forward very much to honeyed meadows and heavenly bell service. You do realize, however, that you made an important distinction there?You talked about someone who never heard of Christ,as opposed to someone who did.

I was most unsatisfied with the answers I got about that very same question, until I came across a website that furnished answers which are, at the very least,interesting. Um,it's sort of long.

http://biblestandard.com/questions/QA_d.htm

Dead—God’s Provision For The Unsaved.
Question (1974)—Will the unsaved dead have a chance to be saved to everlasting life?

Answer.—Obviously, all of Adam’s race have not been given the opportunity in this life to benefit from these three great favors. Most people have died without ever hearing of them, let alone deriving therefrom their intended blessing. This is manifest from many facts. All the heathen who died before Christ came, and almost all of them who have died since He came, never heard of God’s love for them unto salvation, of Christ’s death for them unto salvation, and of the Spirit’s work for them unto salvation, and therefore never benefited therefrom; for there is no salvation possible apart from hearing and accepting the Gospel. Many hold that these as a result have been condemned unto eternal torment; and they even affirm of those of them who died before Christ came and of the majority of the Jews who died before Christ came, that though He later died for them, yet they will never get any benefit therefrom, but that at the time of Christ’s death for them were irretrievably lost in eternal torment. From such a standpoint, what possible purpose could He have had in dying for them; if beforehand they were irretrievably lost? But not only the vast majority of the heathen never heard of these three favors; but many others likewise have died in the same condition. Three-fourths of the human family died in infancy, and therefore never derived the blessings of these favors. Many others died in childhood, not enjoying these blessings. Untold numbers of insane persons lacked them also, while Judaism and Mohammedanism have blinded many other billions to these favors. Sectarianism has darkened these subjects so that still other billions have been so confused on these matters as to have gotten but little of the intended blessings there from. Thus we see that the vast majority of the race died in ignorance of the only name under heaven whereby we must be saved, if saved at all—Acts 4: 12.

Therefore, in this life they had no opportunity of obtaining the blessings that these three favors vouchsafe every human being. Nor can they obtain these blessings while dead; for the Scriptures expressly teach that in death there is no change or reformation, or opportunity of salvation: “In the place where the tree falleth, there shall it be” (Eccl. 11: 3). There is no change in the death state for the good reason that “there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave” (Eccl. 9: 10). It being a condition in which nothing is known, seen, felt, done, received, or endured (Eccl. 9: 5, 6), there can be no change there. Consequently, for the billions who have died without Christ, without hope and without God in the world, as strangers from the covenants of promise (Eph. 2: 12), in ignorance or confusion as to the only name whereby salvation is possible, if they are to have an opportunity at all to obtain the benefits of God’s grace for all, Christ’s death for all and the Spirit’s work for all, in order to their salvation, this must be after they are awakened from the dead—during our Lord’s Second Advent and the Judgment Day, i.e., during the Millennium. And it is to make possible to the billions of earth’s non-elect, who died without having had such an opportunity, that God must have made some kind of arrangement such as we believe the Millennial Kingdom will be, in order to give all a fair chance for gaining everlasting life.

Let us not be misunderstood; we are not advocating a second chance. Emphatically we say that the Bible does not teach a second chance for the individuals of the human race. Aside from the fact that they lost their first chance collectively in Adam, they would not have an individual chance at all unless that chance, wrecked by Adam before his descendants were born, would be followed by another chance, which would be the first chance for the individuals of the human race to gain salvation. But while we do not teach a second chance for the individuals of the human race, apart from Adam and Eve, we do not teach less than one chance for each individual. The difficulty with those who seek to make the above teaching opprobrious by calling it a second chance, is that they do not teach even one individual chance for everybody. They claim that whoever did not have an opportunity to obtain salvation in this life will get none at all. Therefore they teach that the overwhelming majority of the race will never get a chance at all, despite the Biblical teachings that God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work are for all men in order to salvation! And to them this means that these untold billions are at death handed over to fireproof or otherwise torture-proof devils for eternal torment! Theirs is the opprobrious doctrine, not ours.

We teach, in harmony with the Bible, only one individual chance for all Adam’s descendants. We further teach according to the Bible that a small number of the race, the Church of the Firstborn, gets that chance in this life, that all who make shipwreck of the present opportunity to gain life are everlastingly lost, and that all others are debarred from the present salvation, because they lack the necessary kind of faith to qualify them for becoming of Abraham’s pre-Millennial Seed. We also teach, according to the Bible, that all the rest—the non-elect—will get their chance—their first individual, not their second individual, chance— after the elect are all in the Kingdom with our dear Lord Jesus Christ. Unless some such arrangement should prevail, it would be impossible for the practical application of God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work, to all for salvation. And God is too practical, as well as too wise, just, loving and powerful, not to have arranged a feasible way of realizing for all an opportunity for those whom He in the present life excluded from opportunity of the elective salvation with the express purpose of giving them one later (Rom. 11: 30-32). Such an opportunity we must all recognize is fair and Godlike, and therefore is certainly to be expected from God’s love, Christ’s death and the Spirit’s work for all men unto salvation. ’74-70

Interesting,no? If it deeply offends our sense of justice that someone who's never heard of Christ should be 'eternally condemned' after death, shouldn't it offend God much more,if he is everything that we say he is, good,merciful,just?

Don't tell me.That fantastically lame introductory narrative wasn't enough warning and you WATCHED THE WHOLE THING!

RSA:
Tell that god,that he is senseless,stupid,don't deserve the name god.If your god tell you to go and kill innocent souls then I don't want him or hear about him.
I thought God is about peace,love,forgiving and caring.I though the bible and torah says god is love and if indeed is love why the israel are massacring the innocent because god is in their side?

Frigging give this God a break,why don't ya? There are other gods naw. Pass the love around.
Olmert 'weeps' because a tv broadcast put a human face on all those statistics?Yeah sure. Damage control. Good practice. The war's been on for decades and there's no end in sight. It's a sickening,unending process. They'll both withdraw,lick their wounds, then 'peace talks' would be all the rage,and dramatic photos of Israel talking tough and some great quips from the Israeli PM. They'll let themslves be persuaded, bicker over details, agree to something or the other,write it in stone,wait a few beats and have at each other again. Ad frigging nauseam.