₦airaland Forum

To tell y'all the truth I've been following the entire discourse with more interest than I can say. You've all been such a tremendous help, more than you know.

@rampant

Well, if you weren't so busy thinking and saying nothing, you'd see the things I did say all over my post. I asked questions that are important to me and mine, and you can see by the quality of the responders here that it's something they've thought about and have an opinion about too. Post your opinions and thoughts on the questions asked if you have one, instead of merely taking up space someone with something more valuable to say will occupy.

@rampant
You obviously have nothing to say.
@Davidylan
It's nice to hear y'all have an undertanding, and are civil friends.  The last ten pages or so are the insightful opinions of excellent contributors, yourself included.But there might be others who have something to say. Whether it's ten pages or ten thousand isn't your problem, is it?

I'd like answers here, not insults. If the others were insulting I would say so. They aren't, so I'm saying nothing. There's nothing one-sided about asking for better conduct . This isn't a schoolroom fight.

I actually gasped when Craig came out of the sea, golden and dripping with water. What a body. And these naija actors wont let us hear word. They couldn't keep in shape to save their lives, and expect someone to sit down and watch them throw their pot bellies about.

@Davidylan:

I have noticed that it is apparently impossible for you to carry on a discourse without resorting to verbal abuse at people who dissent with your opinions. You freely use words like 'stupid' and idiot'. There is no right or wrong answer here. Each is giving an opinion, an absolute right, and it doesn't have to agree with yours. Given that you're a Christian and a proponent of religion, is it too much to ask that you keep a civil tongue in your head? I don't think it is.

@M Nwankwo

I read In the[i] Light of the Grail Message[/i] in school. I was young then but I recall I was fascinated by a few of its theories, while finding one or two ridiculous. I remember I was particularly struck by the thought theory, where our thoughts give off energy that attract and repel similar energy. Sorry, A paraphrase.  It was a long time ago. There might be something in the thought thing. You know, I just might take another look, now that I'm all grooooowed up and can handle it. Thanks

I looked very hard. I find few of the same attributes in my father. Even if I did,  my father isn't God. He's a man. Why should he be measured by the same parameters? Rationalism and spirituality aren't mutually exclusive. I believe there's more to life and the world that meets the eye. That's what I believe. And while I may practice religion, I won't practice it blindly, without looking for answers to questions that disturb me or mine. If you've answers to those questions, supply them. Even if it's just speculation. That was what I asked for. I'm not interested in a theological debate that digresses from what I asked, and my feelings about God aren't subject to debate either. They're my feelings and if and when they are resolved, the process will be entirely mine to undergo.

Perhaps I am being somewhat perverse here, but I find I haven't an inclination to pray for my friend,and I've explained why: Some of the questions he asked me I have wondered about myself, and so have a majority of the responders here.

Just labelling something 'science' or 'scientific' seems to elevate it beyond reproach, into something infallible. But science isn't infallible. It is a human machine on a journey that is as noble as it is without end, and at no point and in no field does science claim to have arrived.

I think there's a God. There's something. And what on earth do labels matter? I think we have a soul or a spirit. I think there is a spiritual dimension as real and as vivid as this one, in which it is at home.

A friend once described to me how, from the bedroom she shared with her sister, she astral-projected into the family living room, floated near the ceiling, and watched her mother upraid her brother for some infraction or the other. There was a very thin 'ropy' thing that connected the floating she to the she in the bedroom, at the belly button, exactly like an umbilical cord. "Were you, like, two consciousnesses or what?" I remember asking her. It was really weird, she said, because she could see everything happening round her, and so could the other she. When she went back inside herself, she said, she felt 'heavy' and 'pretty tired.'

This conversation took place about two decades ago. She sat next to me in class, in SECONDARY SCHOOL!

Tell her or any Eckist or New Ager or animist there isn't a 'spiritual' otherworldly dimension to things, and they would laugh you to scorn. There's so much out there beyond our comprehension. Why, for instance, is planet earth giving off musical notes beyond man'a aural range? Scientists discovered this recently. There are facts in science, but it's also a babel of experts  and authorities in conflict, and controversies and diverse theories and quacks, just like religion. Evolution is backed up by lots of data, but it hasn't been proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Perhaps the current level of proof would do for other answers sought, but for something as terrible as the origin of life, it simply has to do more.

The world wasn't created in 6 literal days. Genesis is a written account of the oral history of the Jews, which Moses transcribed when he wanted to record their triumphant exodus. So he started from the very beginning, recording an account of creation generations of Jews had handed down for centuries. Is it any wonder inconsistencies abound in the stories? Who knows what really happened? Adam and Eve perhaps, but the number you are calling is unavailable at the moment. I don't set much store by accounts of events that occurred before scholarly writing was invented. The 'day' is probably a stage that could be anything from thousands to millions of years. What has He got if not lots of time? It's intriguing that evolution describes life's progress in the same order the Bible did: Water, Plants, Animals, Man. Perhaps God created the world by evolution. After all the event happened aeons ago, and 'creation' and 'evolution' are relatively recent man-made labels: Who knew what it was it was called back then, what He called it?

But I find the God of the old testament hard to like. He punishes the slightest infraction,demands sacrifices, asks his friend to sacrfice his only son, and to prove what? You want to know if he's loyal, take a peek into his heart why don't you? You can, can't you? Job is going about minding his business and he signals the devil and says, 'Have you considered my servant Job?" A man is transporting the ark, it's about to slip off the cart, he touches it to stop it from falling and God strikes him dead, knowing his innocent intent. Berate islamic fundamentalists and their senseless jihads all you want, but didn't the old testament God send the Jews on God-sanctioned holy wars as well? If he were a man I would call him an insecure, fickle,vengeful,insatiable,unpleasant, unpleaseable jealous megalomaniac. But he's not, is he?

So I cannot pray for my buddy because I know where he is coming from. I believe, but I won't be guided by blind,unreasoning religion. Why should I? Why should he?  Answers are what he wants. Perhaps he may not find them all, but he certainly has a right to ask, and to seek. So do I.

I don't get that. The sole purpose of holy books is that their gods might be found therein. I doubt there'd be any god to find and follow if there weren't holy books trumpeting their existence. I cannot pray for my friend or commit him to God or some other religious exercise because I find that some of his questions are also mine.

@Davidylan.
Hey there.

@Weimar,

Thanks for the offer of a free bible study but I'm going to have to say, "Nay."

I have my own views on the Sabbath and you have yours, and there's absolutely no reason they should agree.That's a nice thing, isn't it? Yeah.

um

Yeah, Route 66!
George Lazenby is only the worst casting decision in movie history is all. The guy acted Bond in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Go on. I dare you to endure more than ten minutes of it. And I SO agree that Sean Connery is the sexiest Bond. Omigod. And I say IS. Like the best wines he just gets better with age. Delish.

I'm feeling y'all, especially Okija Juju. And he isn't attributing those countries' progressiveness and our retrogressive ways here to religion:He's attributing it to their willingness to examine and challenge their beliefs- not just religion but all spheres- and our reluctance to do so.  We're indoctrinated and are unwilling to beam the searchlight on what we believe because we're afraid of what we might unearth. The question of fairness, salvation wise, remains unanwered so far.

I would have to give it to the palemilion people, and McReal- www.mcreal.net. I haven't come across service like theirs yet, but if there are others it would be great to know.

You're a customer too? I mentioned them somewhere on the site. They're impressive, aren't they? I understand what you mean about it being hard to believe it's operated by Nigerians. Dem don chop oyinbo food well well. Nigerians, when they're performing a service they act like they're doing you a favour. Some are downright rude. And you're paying good money o. Have you checked out the car purchase service yet? Any details? So many services available now. Makes you dizzy.

He isn't angry. Merely indifferent. And he's not going through a whole lot. Like I said, God can be scrutinised, and I would prefer answers to his questions, unless there aren't any, which would be awful, wouldn't it?

I just want answers to his questions. It doesn't help to say he shouldn't ask questions. He doesn't believe God exists, but he dislikes him in case he's wrong and there is a God.  I'm sure God can withstand close scrutiny, even if we can't. Please advice on what to tell him. It doesnt matter if it's speculation; how many things do we know for sure anyway?

One of my closest friends has not only stopped believing in God, but, in case He really exists, which he doubts, he dislikes him as well. He blames God for all the misery in the world and wonders why He allows it to happen. He says life is smoother and 'less complicated' without God in it. 'I've heard all your arguments before,' he says, 'and they tire me.' These are his grouses:

*If God knew Satan was going to turn bad and unleash anguish in the world and cause mankind's downfall and untold suffering, why did he go ahead to create him?

*Salvation is unfair. He was born into a christian home, as I was. How did that accident qualify us for salvation? What about untold millions who happen to be born into muslim and Buddhist and Shinto homes: They all believe in their God as passionately as we believe in ours. If they happen to be wrong, because they were born and raised in religions different from ours through no fault of theirs, they now go to hell?

*What about all the evidence and all the science that backs up evolution? What about the human skull that was found in Kenya, 12 million years old? Adam and Eve till the present day did not accrue even ONE million years, as their genealogy in Mattews shows.

*Why has no Christian proven the existence of God beyond all doubt?

*Why is there so much suffering? Why does God allow terrible things to happen, where million of lives are lost?

True, man is a failed experiment. God gave everything he made free will, and the angels and all the other strange beings in heaven are there because they freely chose to be. They are creatures of greater complexity of design and intelligence than man, and a third of them rebelled, because they could. Now they're on earth to bring woe to mankind, and damn him alongside themselves, making him pay for a choice he had no hand in making: Rebellion against God. Science has proven that evil is in the human genes. Read The Selfish Gene by Dawkins. We are inherently evil, and there's no such thing as 'good in every human being'. They attribute it to natural selection, but all this isn't new to God. The Bible has long said no one is good except God. Science is sweeping a torchlight in vast darkness, and it will all still lead to God, but how do I help my friend? How do I answer his questions? I had no answer to the second question. I mean, if some muslim fundamentalist chooses to blow himself up in a crowded place, all I can say is: He'll have plenty of time to reflect on his decision, but what about other peaceful religions? The Bible says Christ is the ONE way, but ALL religions believe theirs is the ONE way. Please advice on what to say to him.

You keep forgetting that Christ was a JEW. The Lord of the Sabbath says nothing about Christians and whether the sabbath is binding on us, and the books to which you refer are in the old testament books, which describe jewish laws and customs and God's covenant with the Jews. The Lord of the Sabbath implies that he might be a Jew but he is also God, and is ABOVE the Sabbath and is not bound by it. He demonstrates this by flouting the Sabbath whenever he wills, much to the consternation of the religious leaders of the day. But following the sabbath or not doesn't affect one's salvation, so I guess it's a matter of choice.

Brosnan was a thoroughly incompetent spy in what do you call it, the one with Halle Berry. Goldeneye was the only movie he shone in. He wears the role like one of his tailored suits, like he's at a boy's club. Puffing cigars and seducing women by numbers. No edge, no cruelty. Yes, I like my Bonds cruel; that's what he was in the books and that's how Connery and Craig were. Besides, they started all over with Casino Royale. He hadn't even earned his 00 status, and his first kill was inexperienced and messy. He was hard but he wasn't jaded, and he didn't objectify women- an old Bond trait- but actually fell in love. I loved his performance. He wasn't just prancing about with gadgets , he was actually acting.

Well. I guess one is sort of attached to the Bond one grew up with. I liked Roger Roger Moore in the role at first, quite a bit of the love spilling over from The Persuaders,his thing with Tony Curtis. And then I saw the other Bonds- except Georgie; I scuttled away after he seared my eyeballs within five minutes with his performance- and Roger just wasn't it anymore.Of all his Bond movies I only still like The Spy Who Loved Me, and Live and Let Die, because of the black semi-Bond girl and the deliciously dark hoodoo stuff. Everything about Casino Royale worked; Bond, script, action and whatta Bond Girl, and Craig cruised to first place in my Bond affections, usurping Sean Connery.

I do attend the occasional church service. I'm not saying don't go to church. I'm saying I understand if there are times you wouldn't want to.

Come now,the guy did for a tired franchise what Batman Begins did for Batman. He's blond and blue-eyed, so what? He's good,isn't he? As for George Lazenby, he's so awful he doesn't even make Worst Bond for me, that bad. I no know who dash the guy Bond.

The editing's fine.

Gamine, how are you dealing with it? Maybe I can learn jare.

Man, do I understand where you're coming from or what? I hardly attend church, but I have a hunger to find and know God personally, and sometimes He's lost in the hustle and bustle and Pastor's posturings. I went mountain climbing one day. It was beautiful. The sky was four shades of blue. There were eagles and butterflies. To my astonishment, I got a glimpse of God that day. And I'm not referring to the physical environment. I would dodge questions like 'Did you go to church today?', and accusing looks if I say I hadn't been. Now I give a curt 'No,' and profer no explanations.

Don't get me wrong. I occasionally attend services and I'm uplifted by a message, and I have pastor friends,but I've grouses with Nigerian churches a mile long. It's a culture over here, church. It has its own language and practices and ways of life, and once you master them, you can pass yourself off as anything. That's why my cheeks used to ache from all the false smiles I'd dispense in church, because I have to pass muster. Religion is a blanket people use to hide who they really are beneath. Tiresome,motonous religious activity that do little to change the darker sides of one's character. Not to mention there's no real love amongst church members. Pastors are arrogant and strut about like peacocks, expecting you to worship the ground they walk on. They pass their own prejudices and jaundiced view of life off as religious doctrine, and you'd better obey or it's off to hellfire you go. They tell you what to do, what to think and how to think it. One pastor came to my house and,when he didn't get the 'Daddy' and the 'respect' he thought it my constitutional duty to furnish, became hostile and began to misbehave. I 'dashed' his annointed face a good slap. Yes, I did. And to pastor worshippers who're clutching their hearts in horror and looking to consign me to hell,good luck to you. A pastor is merely an office in a church, and is no more noble or deserving of respect than an usher or a chorister. God is no respecter of persons but we are, forming cliques in church and not recognising or respecting boundaries if it kicked us in the foot. 

Church today is a travesty of what it was intended to be. I'n under no obligation to conform to its rules or abide by its dictates. There's a Bible, and I can read. Your brethren is not the people who gather with you in a hall to perform religious ceremony. They are people with whom you share a spirit and the love- translatable into action- of Christ. So you can be in a congregation of 100000 while your actual brethren therein are 1000.

I totally understand your dilemma. I face the same. Just don't let some misguided sense of duty guide your life, and remember there's just this one life and it's short. Do everything from your HEART.