₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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Stop this at once MAX and point to the verse which says Michael is Jesus, otherwise I will have to discipline you.

Funny atheist!
Who cares what you think about yourself?
Answer the question or do what your other friend did when i told him that "butter no be monkey food"
Once he heard that he mello.

So i will ask you again.

Do you believe that the Bible is God's inspired word?

If not there's nothing to discuss with you!🙂

Do you believe the Bible as God's word?🙂

DeepSight:
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Grammar.

Here are all the references to Michael in the Bible -

The Old Testament (Book of Daniel)
In the Book of Daniel, Michael appears as a powerful heavenly prince who fights spiritual battles on behalf of Israel.

Daniel 10:13: An angel (likely Gabriel) explains to Daniel that he was delayed by the "prince of the kingdom of Persia" for 21 days until "Michael, one of the chief princes," came to help him.

Daniel 10:21: The angel further identifies Michael's unique role, telling Daniel, "There is no one who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince."

Daniel 12:1: In a prophecy about the end times, Michael is described as "the great prince who has charge of your people." The verse says he will "arise" during a time of unprecedented distress to deliver those whose names are written in the book.

The New Testament
In the New Testament, Michael is explicitly given the title of "Archangel" and is shown leading the heavenly armies.

Jude 1:9: This verse refers to a specific event where "the archangel Michael," while contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses. Rather than pronouncing a "slanderous judgment," Michael simply said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Revelation 12:7–8: During a great war in heaven, "Michael and his angels" fight against the dragon (Satan). Michael and his forces prevail, and the dragon is cast down to the earth.

Other Possible References
While not mentioned by name, some scholars and traditions associate Michael with other passages:

1 Thessalonians 4:16: This verse mentions that the Lord will descend from heaven with the "voice of the archangel." Since Michael is the only angel explicitly called an archangel in the Bible, many believe this refers to him.

Joshua 5:13–15: Some traditions identify the "commander of the army of the Lord" who appeared to Joshua as Michael, though the text does not name him
*Culled.

Now show me which one indicates that he is Jesus.

Truthseeker10:
So between Michael and Jesus, who does the Bible say would raise the dead with his voice?

The funny thing is he doesn't even view the Bible as God's word so it's a waste of time quoting what the book says for him! Matthew 7:6🙂

DeepSight:
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The Bible is not inerrant but like all other scripture, there is much truth and wisdom to be found in it.
Also, I dont need to believe in it to be able to have a proper discussion on what and what it says and what and what it does not say.
And it most certainly does not say that Jesus is Michael.

You need to know something important about faith.

There is PREACHING and TEACHING both aren't the same thing what you need first is preaching which will help to make you trust the Bible it's after trusting the Bible that you need to be taught what is found written in it.

Imagine a teacher who wants to teach a group of students a subject but the students don't trust the textbook so the teacher needs to first convince the students why they need the textbook before using it to teach them otherwise he will just continue speaking to the air!🙂

DeepSight:
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I am not an atheist and if after so many years you do not know that, that only shows what a poor student and reader you are.

Do you believe (trust) whatever is found written in the Bible?

If not there's no need arguing over what is written because you don't even believe it in the first place.

Chidolalar:
We are talking of God who started it in the first place and d real cause of Every evil and good on earth and beyond.

Why can't you answer simple question and stop deviating?

Is it by force for God to create humans in the first place and have children on Earth in d first place?

Yes or no?

If u can't answer yes or no then it means u are only deceiving yourself and trying to defend the indefensible.

Ọmọ if you choose to have children and not remain alone throughout your life there is no sense in asking why God who created humans in his likeness chose to have children!🙂

DeepSight:
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This does not show that Jesus is Michael.

Another atheist?🙂

Abeg butter no be monkey food, leave this for Bible believers only!🙂

Arda1000:
”trust”
You meant “faith” cus everything you believe is based not on evidence or logical explanation but on faith.

Trust is the same as Believe so if you don't understand something it will be difficult for you to trust (believe) it.

The Police are handling many cases out there that when you hear what was presented to them you won't believe a single thing yet crimes are committed and arrests are made surely the truth must be hidden somewhere you can't just say the cases should be discarded simply because you don't believe what the complaints or accused is saying?🙂

HeatSeeker:
This is a set up obviously
We shall meet again on this matter.

It's OK just know that JWs have biblical backing for whatever we believe so don't just think it's easy to debunk what we are teaching our members.

Meanwhile know that no JW will come to preach this to you because there is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching is for people who don't believe in the Bible while teaching is for people who already have firm beliefs in what is WRITTEN in God's word.

So if you don't believe the Bible it's OK!🙂

Arda1000:
when you believe in ridiculous stuffs u can’t prove it’s not normal,it’s like a schizophrenic person who believes god is talking to them,to them you are the crazy one cause you don’t hear and see what they experience.

Have i called you a crazy person for not believing what i believe?

Come on!
Another word for believe is trust so no right thinking person can blame you for not trusting what you don't understand!🙂

HeatSeeker:
So you are a JW too?! No wonder!

So because he wasn't attacking me for what i'm saying is that why you concluded he is also a JW?🙂

LordReed:
The angel is not named.

Guy butter doesn't belong to monkeys so leave this matter at least you have agreed that someone actually lived in the first century Jewish community named Jesus of Nazareth.

That's enough for now!🙂

LordReed:
Kindly point out where I called you dvmb for what you believe.

Na today?

HeatSeeker:
Lol. Jesus sharing a seemingly similar title of Morning Star with other beings denoted as angels does not mean he is one of them. You drew your conclusions based on this?

At least Jesus is the bright morning star while the angels are morning stars and he's being controlling them as his subjects according to God's word just as Revelation 12:7 says.

Moreover it's this same Archangel Michael who will raise the dead just as it's written in Daniel 12:1-2 just as Paul said Archangel's voice is what Jesus will use to resurrect dead people {1Thessalonians 4:16} and Jesus himself did refer to the person whose voice will raise the dead as if it's someone else saying:

“Don’t be surprised at this. A time is coming when all people who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good in this life will rise and have eternal life. But those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty. John 5:28-29

The same Jesus after praying to God said:

“Lazarus, come out!” John 11:43

Nobody is forcing you to believe this it's just a pity that you are the one who asked for it!🙂

Arda1000:
I am normal,am not The one who believes in Jewish fairytales

So it's normal to say others aren't normal for believing what you don't believe!🙂

HeatSeeker:
Lol. I thought you have stated all your points. You have refused to address the contradictions in your beliefs with Hebrews 1:5-8

Obviously you missed this post:

MaxInDHouse:
For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”  Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”  But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

The Hebrews were using the names of angels during prayers just as churches of Christendom are doing today so Paul had to tell Hebrews who have become Christians that the name given is not that of angels but "JESUS"

That's the import of these message.

HeatSeeker:
Please enlighten me

Our friend has disappeared o!🙂

He thought it's going to be easy with the true Christians who have everything to back our beliefs at the end he said:

HeatSeeker:
I still don't agree

Even after showing him that all angels are morning Stars and that Jesus is one of them!🙂

HeatSeeker:
Nice one. Anyway, I still don't agree. The points you made don't really follow and there are bible verses that negate them e.g 1:5-8. Everyone in the religious space professes to have secrets others do not have.

The highlighted is what Jesus referred to as false prophets whose followers can't do God's will which is actively preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom in their neighborhood. Matthew 7:16-18

So when anyone tells you he had sacred secrets watch out for their fruits (followers) if they can be convinced to do the work Jesus assigned to his disciples if they can't then know that they are deceiving themselves!🙂

Arda1000:
how did I insult u?

You are normal now!🙂

HeatSeeker:
There is no where in the Christian bible that Jesus Christ is equated with an angel. This is just non sequitur. To be honest.
How do you marry all this with Hebrews 1:5-8?

For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”  Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”  But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

The Hebrews were using the names of angels during prayers just as churches of Christendom are doing today so Paul had to tell Hebrews who have become Christians that the name given is not that of angels but "JESUS"

That's the import of these message.

@ HeatSeeker
I believe by now you should be able to know why Jehovah's Witnesses say Jesus is the Archangel Michael and as for doing of God's will that's the one and only organization of imperfect humans who have used what the Prince of peace taught them to settle their disparities peacefully among themselves, diverted their resources into production of food and information materials, stopped the making, buying, selling and using of weapons and vowed never to raise weapons against their fellow humans. Isaiah 2:4
Jesus said it's by the love they have among themselves that everyone will know that they are his real disciples! John 13:34-35
And as you know that's the only group globally active in preaching and teaching from house to house {Matthew 10:11-13} making real disciples who are also doing the same thing! Matthew 28:19-20

Lastly when Daniel mentioned Michael in that verse he emphasized that only those with Michael during the end time will understand sacred secrets. Daniel 12:10

So when next you meet Jehovah's Witnesses don't just discard what they have to tell you because there are lots and lots of sacred secrets they know about salvation!🙂

Arda1000:
youre not normal

Insulting me will not solve your problem!

HeatSeeker:
Hold on there, Job 38:7 does not say all Angels are morning stars. The Sons of God are not specifically equated to angels. Sheesh 🙄

This are different versions of the Bible and their rendering of that verse:

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ~KJV

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? ~NIV


When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? ~NWT

when the morning stars sang together and the angels shouted with joy? ~ERV

That's why it's good comparing different versions of the Bible to get the message clearer!

So the spirit sons of God are the angels!🙂

Arda1000:
ok let’s agree that someone with that name exists.

Victory for the Bible!
Now what's left is whether he performed those wonderful signs recorded in the Bible.🙂

HeatSeeker:
Based on the circumstances of the times in which the prophecies were given.

Good!
Now let's read some meanings into that same Bible verse for more information:


“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. ‭Daniel 12:1-2 NIV‬


Please what's the connection between the resurrection of the dead and a voice of the archangel? 1Thessalonians 4:16

Secondly Jesus himself said when he starts ruling in heaven there will be times of distress on planet earth {Matthew 24:7-13} and John said it's the Archangel Michael who led the heavenly armies against Satan in heaven {Revelation 12:7-10} Jesus said he is the bright morning star {Revelation 22:16} and at Job 38:7 we read that all angels are morning Stars.
Do you think Jesus could be one of them but having a higher position among them?🤔

HeatSeeker:
How does it now result to Jesus Christ = Archangel Michael? The ministry of the Christ is a separate thing all together.

Please it's not just one minute or two that i also agreed with the JWs on this matter so calm down and let's see what the Bible teaches.

So are you convinced now that it was the archangel Michael who has been protecting God's people as the angel representing God Almighty?

HeatSeeker:
This figure was never referred to by name! It is neither Jesus nor the Archangel Michael.

Please do you believe what Daniel said in the below verse:


“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. ‭Daniel 12:1 NIV‬

Please note the highlighted in red and you are free to cross-check the quoted scriptures in any Bible version of your choice.

LordReed:
LoLz. He doesn't have to convince me of anything. He is allowed to have his own opinion.

If each atheist is allowed to have his or her own opinion about matters please why do you people refer to others as dumb for choosing what they believe?🙂

LordReed:
Kindly quote anywhere I said Jesus never existed.

If you believe he existed go and teach your fellow atheists!🙂

HeatSeeker:
Please enlighten me

Since you love the question and answer style of enlightenment let's do this together by asking some questions and finding the answers through the Bible.

First set of questions:


By day the Lord went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. ‭Exodus 13:21 NIV‬


Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel’s army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them. ‭Exodus 14:19 NIV‬


Nebuchadnezzar said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” ‭Daniel 3:25 NIV‬




Who is the angel of God representing God Almighty whenever it's time to deliver God's people?

HeatSeeker:
Yes. But I don't remember Jesus saying that his real disciples will end up with the claim that the Archangel Michael is in fact Jesus Christ.

Good!
This shows you are ready for a free Bible study.
So get your copy of the Bible ready it's time to know from the Bible that Jesus is the Archangel Michael!

Are you ready?🙂

HeatSeeker:
How the doing of GOD'S perceived "will" is summarised to be Archangel Michael = Jesus Christ is what we need to understand here.

Do you believe what Jesus said about his real disciples being able to do God's will?🙂