₦airaland Forum

Hushpuppy20:
Exactly, that is what am insinuating but if say this to alot of Gen z they will not only abuse you they will want to beat you sef

It's not a matter of argument {Titus 3:9} it's clear that in ancient Israel worship is different from judging matters as king.

The Tabernacle or Temple is where those assigned to head the people in worship stays and no females is found officiating there.
In our spiritual temple Jesus is our Highpriest and he never chose a single female to serve as apostle.
Note that in the first century the apostles and older men were serving as a Governing Body for the entire Christians back then and no single female among them! Act 15:2

That is what Paul is saying not that he fabricated this all by himself!

Hushpuppy20:
Ok, but in my church i have never seen a female pastor (CAC) but there are alot of active female members that are pushing and doing the work of God.

That's exactly what Paul is saying not that they can't assist where we need them but not to head the church!

dedecoder:
I think most people here are mixing up service with headship. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit prophesied in Joel 2:28 is for both males and females (married & unmarried).

As such, a woman can preach in and out of the church, win souls, and even contribute in other ways as empowered by God.

However, when it comes to leadership, biblically, men should lead. The case of Deborah often cited as leading was an aberration; it was a permissive will NOT the perfect will of God. Had Israel walked in the ways of Jehovah, the circumstances that led to the emergence of Deborah wouldn't have ensued.

Women are valuable to God, and they shouldn't feel inferior. It's just that in the plan of God, their roles are supportive NOT being the arrowhead or 'main strikers.'

Deborah led Israel to war as a prophet or God's messenger to direct them not inside the temple/tabernacle for worship!

Hushpuppy20:
Well i am not many of those that miscontrue the scripture but most times we need to pray for understanding so that we wont misunderstanding many part of the scripture, Keeping silent does not mean that woman should not speak at all but there are limits to what they can do and where they can reach inside the church. But now everything have changed

Nothing changed!
There is just one Christians organization while the rest are fake so if anyone wants to know we will show him how to IDENTIFY Jesus' true church among these false religions claiming Christians!

Lamasta:
Do you know who Deborah and Esther is in the bible at all

Did they serve as PRIESTS/HIGHPRIEST inside the Tabernacle or Temple?

Hushpuppy20:
Not keep silent as you think, you need to think deep about scriptures and pray for the understanding.

Many don't believe any of these things they just want to misconstrue whatever is written so that those putting faith in the Bible may not reach a unanimous conclusion!

Mutaino7:
Somehow you forgot the impact of Deborah, Ruth, Esther, Magdelene, Dorcas, Priscilla etc

Of course they served God along with their male contemporaries.
What we are saying is taking the lead in worship not that no woman has ever served the true God before.
So can you remember the name of any female priest or Highpriest in ancient Israel?
Can you mention one female apostle in the midst of Jesus' chosen twelve?

That's what we are saying!

okpouman:
I have never gotten any adequate answer to this budding question.
Christianity came to “NIGERIA" around 120 years ago,just about a century ago.

Will the ancestors- great grand parents and above who did not practice Christianity all go to hell then?
If only those that accept Christ will go to heaven.

Where is the final place of those that did not know Christ ,including those today were christainity did not penetrate like Japan for example. Are they all predestined to hell?

There is going to be a resurrection of the RIGHTEOUS and the UNRIGHTEOUS {Act 24:15} the RIGHTEOUS are servants of the true God declared RIGHTEOUS due to their relationship with Him while the UNRIGHTEOUS are people who lived by conscience but they don't know the true God!

As for those who chose to be wicked deliberately they will never come back to life again! Psalms 9:17

spiSeyi:
Israel didn't have a king then and they didn't lead the whole nation bcs they neither Judges nor Priests .
They were heroine of their time just like we have freedom fighters and activists. Awolowofought for the Nigerian independent does that makes him our president

Jesus set the standard so there is no need to argue at least Jesus chose twelve apostles and Paul was number thirteen no single female among those he chose!

Fiscus105:
Is book of Roman in ur Bible? If yes, interpret Romans 16:1-2 for the public to read.
I will indulge you to stop holding on to your long belief that some pastors in the past had, imposed into mind.
Bible is opened to everyone to read and understand by himself,....if you read king James version and you don't understand it, go and read Bible of ur local version. (Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa among others)

We have lots of females in our midst and they do things like cooking when there is a feast but they don't lead in worship.

Do you get it now?

There is none outside the Bible because Jesus only showed himself to his friends after his resurrection. John 14:19
That's why the Jews like Saul (a Pharisee) was bitterly attacking Christians thinking they were lying not until Jesus appeared to him.
So the same thing is happening today as Jesus returned in the year 1914 to help his disciples form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers yet many are expecting to see him whereas the angel that appeared to Jesus' friends during his ascension told them:

“Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.” Act 1:11

*Was Jesus' departure publicly announced for all Judeans to know?
*Did unbelievers know about Jesus' resurrection?
*Did all his disciples witnessed his departure or those present told them?

Remember Jesus' return will be unannounced so that only his true friends will tell anyone who is interested to know how he returned!

Of course preaching to unbelievers is the responsibility of both male and female Christians but in the midst of Christians (baptized) women are not permitted to officiate.
If no baptized male in the congregation a baptized female can officiate but must have her head covered {1Corinthans 11:10} with a veil that's a sign showing that such responsibility belongs only to males, as soon as the males are baptized the females return to their silent mode in the congregation!

Tallesty1:
Well written bro, well written and quite insightful; but believe there's a minor interpretive error regarding the passage you quoted.

To properly understand Paul’s writings, you to visualize and understand the audience, cultural context, and specific circumstances of the church he was addressing. For example, in 1 Corinthians 14:34–35, Paul writes:

“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.”1 Corinthians 14:34,

Ordinarily, this may appear like universal ban but the Corinthian church was known for disorder during worship services. Corinth, being a bustling, diverse, and morally chaotic city, often struggled with maintaining structure in public gatherings. It's on record that their services had become noisy and unruly with everyone speaking at once, making it difficult to teach or worship effectively ( 1 Corinthians 14:26–33)

It is within this specific context of disruption that Paul addressed the issue of women who, at the time, have not received as much formal teaching and speaking out during worship. His instruction was about restoring order, not silencing women universally. In fact, earlier in the same letter, Paul acknowledges that women both pray and prophesy in public worship:

“But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head...” (1 Corinthians 11:5, NKJV)



This emperical evidence that women were allowed and even expected to participate vocally in worship under appropriate spiritual authority and order.

Therefore, Paul was not contradicting himself but offering specific corrective guidance for a specific situation. To interpret the “silent” passage as a universal prohibition on women preaching or teaching would be to ignore the broader scriptural witness and the immediate literary and historical context.

EnlightenedUFO:
I tend to look more at the direct impact to our daily lives and the understanding of being tethered to Nation of Israel as Christians. I would say as Christians we find a connection to the LAND because of God, but I don't think we can say the same for its PEOPLE, the israelis. I feel that is the hard question Christians need to start asking.

The land has lost her glory!

So Christians have no attachment to the land of Israel.

Aemmyjah:
Hmmm 🤔
I honestly don't know how to agree or disagree with this but it's very shocking

That's why we often reason from the scriptures my brother.

Now ask yourself after Armageddon and resurrection of the dead who are those qualified to live forever, those who have been taught by Jesus Christ or those who lived by the law in ancient Israel? Romans 10:1-4

TheAdvocate:
In the genealogy, a woman was mentioned. Reread your Bible.

Anytime a woman is mentioned it's just to remind the reader what occurred.
Do you know the names of any daughter born to Adam, Jacob or Joseph (Jesus' foster father)?

AntiChristian:
Jesus was a prayer warrior while alive! He do go to mountain to pray in seclusion! He did put his head on the floor in submission to God! What religion did he claim?
And your final claim above has no prove except by faith! Jesus and your dead ancestors are alike in that regards! They have no proven awareness of anything going on on earth!

Are you reading the Bible into your Quran or you are reading your Quran into the Bible?

Ọmọ it's either you believe what is written the Bible or you ignore it all together but reading your Quran into the Bible makes no sense because both are not from the same source!

AntiChristian:
You simply admitted they were never called Christians when Jesus was alive!

You should have said:

Jesus' disciples were not called Christians when he was with them bodily as a human.

Because he was resurrected and all the things that led to his disciples been given that group name "CHRISTIANS" never happened in his absence!

Christianity is not just a one way traffic.

God sent His only begotten Son into the world for a reason:

To coordinate obedient mankind so that all who are godly may share the same line of thought as one global family and relate as such! Isaiah 2:2-4; Zephaniah 3:9

Christians must associate as neighbors who share same beliefs for interchange of encouragement {Hebrews 10:24-25} as we get prepared for the day God will wipe out all evildoers {Psalms 37:7-11; Proverbs 2:20-22} our mission is to gather as those hoping to see end to badness and teach them what God's Son commanded! Matthew 28:19-20

So if you are one of true Christians you'll continue to hear sincere and honest hearted people say good things about what your group is doing globally {Matthew 5:14-16} and continue longing to meet your fellow believers through whose works these praises are going to the true God who brought you out of darkness into his wonderful light! 1Peter 2:9

paxonel:
ALL THESE WHILE SO MANY YEARS NOW THAT WOMEN HAVE SUCESSFULLY PRESIDED MANY CHURCHES EVERYWHERE WORLDWIDE INCLUDING THE ONCE WE HAVE HERE IN NIGERIA, DID HEAVEN GOT LOOSE?

NO!
Just as heaven never fall when people kill people or when they commits adultery, fornication, robbery, fraud and many more these things are just there in God's word and explained to obedient humans who wants to keep their feet on the narrow path! Matthew 7 :13-14

Imma624:
But what do we say about Churches who gives pastor, bishop, apostleship title to female. Are they not true church and don't you consider it gender inequality if men are only permitted to pastor a Church

According to the Bible women aren't given any equal right with men when talking about headship in sacred service.

Try to read your Bible from Genesis and see if females were mentioned in the genealogy of God's people.

Adam's descendants, Noah's children, Abraham's, and many others only males were mentioned it's only when something tragic occurred that a female will be mentioned by name. For instance the only female name mentioned among Jacob's children is "Dinah" who was raped even Jesus' male siblings were mentioned by name {Mark 6:3} but no mention of his female siblings.

So Bible writers don't reckon with females except when something significant is involved!

EnlightenedUFO:
But your statement is a 2000+ year history. Do you know what happened in a 1000 years before the the second world war, where there inter marriages, migration, and also intermittent wars? Are you confident changes in social structure in over 2000 years didn't change the narrative of what we think is true?

According to history Jerusalem was under the control of Muslims during the 1000 years the Jews couldn't return again but proselytes Judaists kept fighting to regain Jerusalem, it was in the twentieth century that Judaists claiming Jews were called to reclaim Jerusalem with the backing of UN.
So Judaists practicing contradictions in the name of Jews returned in the last century and as they are of different schools of thought they continued their dispute over who should be in control of Jerusalem!

Imma624:
The issue of a woman pastoring a church is a subject of controversy today. Some argued for with their own explanation while some argued against.
To you, should a woman pastor a Church? Let's discuss

In the first century "Church" is a group of Christians {1Corinthans 14:34 compare to Revelations 1:4} therefore when someone mention the word "Church" back then he is referring to the gathering of Jesus' followers but later different religions began claiming they have a church and since they are not into preaching and teaching which made Jesus' disciples known as Christians in the first century {Act 11:26} what they use to call members for worship into their worship center is loud songs not preaching as real disciples of Jesus used to do so instead of calling members by the group name "Church" they are now calling their worship center "Church"

Today different religions claiming they are Christians have adopted the same thing since they're not used to preaching and teaching to make disciples like the first century disciples now call their worship centers "Church" because it's the building that's calling for interested persons to come join their religions.

So if such a religion now wants to make a female their leader it's OK but going by the practice of first century disciples of Jesus who preaches and teaches from house to house and door to door females were never permitted to officiate at all rather they remain silent when males takes the lead! 1Timothy 2:11-12

The Bible did not tell us why Israelites never had a female priest or why Jesus never chose a female among his twelve apostles but Paul revealed that angels in Christianity don't recognize women as leaders {1Corinthans 11:10} so we don't allow women to pastor in true Christianity! Ephesians 5:24

Kobojunkie:
Over 1900 years later, that same piece of land of reconstituted into different nation called Israel, with some of those who are possible descendants of the original bloodline populating it today. So, what is the meaning of the statement you have in gold there of them living in Palestine instead?

After Jesus' death 33 years later Judah was attacked by Roman armies and the city of Jerusalem was destroyed in the most bloody way so surviving Israelites ran to other places and began residing there.
Check history!

Jerryhare:
The Bible verses that shows many battle David fought and won for Israel, does that make him not to be loved by God.

From Abel to John the baptist (all born of women) aren't worthy of everlasting life in Paradise like Christians {Matthew 11:11} because they have not learned from the King himself Jesus Christ! John 3:16

Jerryhare:
BBC is not my Bible, I know my Lord Jesus but I love as they exposed you people of Russell

So you are deceiving yourself!
If it's bad reports you want to read about a religion simply because they are not into interfaith. That's the same reason why Jews spread lots of bad reports about Jesus and his disciples till today! Matthew 5:11-12

Jerryhare:
They are not reliable for exposing the atrocities your religion is known for but if it is other way round, you won't condemned them!

You are the one trusting them nah, have you ever seen me use BBC or CNN report against any religion?
Ọmọ i don't follow reports i speak about what is happening in my own area which i can confidently say:
"it's true" 1Thessalonians 5:21

Read your Bible for more information but i will tell you a little:

After the death of King Solomon the nation of Israel splitted two tribes among the twelve (Judah and Benjamin) remained as the ruling tribe. King Saul (first Israelite king) is from Benjamin while David is from Judah, remaining 10 tribes protested and cut off as northern tribes of Israel they were later known as Samaritans but the two ruling tribes were known as Judah, Jerusalem was the capital of Judah back then.

The northern ten tribes later became so idolatrous until God condemned them and they were dispersed among pagan nations by the time Jesus walked the earth only a minut part of Samaritans were real Israelites most of the original inhabitants were lost among the nations and as for the remnants they were at loggerheads with Jews (inhabitants of Judah)

So out of the twelve descendants of Jacob ten were already lost before Jesus walked the earth but even the remaining two tribes Benjamin and Judah were cursed for rejecting the Christ! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

The worst happened the day Jesus stood before a pagan governor who told the Jews:

“I am innocent of the blood of this man(Jesus). You yourselves must see to it.” Matthew 27:24b

The Jews unanimously condemned God's only begotten Son and responded:

“Let his blood come upon us and upon our children.” Matthew 27:25

Haaaaaaaa!

From that day Jerusalem and all her inhabitants were cursed unless if anyone of them repents and become one of Jesus' disciples {Act 2:38-39} such a person can be found written in the book of life! Revelations 20:15

So back to your question occupants of Israel today are not descendants of the ancient Israelites only few returned the rest are lost completely not knowing how they relate with that nation or their real tribe or origin!

The message won't go down well in the minds of illiterate religionists!

What this man is saying makes sense but since he's also one of those teaching them religion his message will fall on deaf ears.

Whatever the white man has called your traditional beliefs if you're able to make speed trains, aeroplanes, automobiles, phones and other useful devices they will be silenced and stop demeaning your religion instead of condemning it as DEMONIC.

That's the import of his message!

The same thing Traditionalists, Buddhists, Hindus, Judaists will tell you when you try to delve into their books unauthorized or unapproved by them.

That's why i don't argue based on what is written in your religious books rather i concentrate on the practical benefits derived after people from different countries throughout the world become adherents of your book.

So if your Allah is the true God why can't you people used his word to settle your disparities peacefully among yourselves?
Why must Muslims raise weapons against Muslims in the name of politics and racism?
You may choose to ignore it's fine by me at least you know now my own stand that any god that fails to unite it's worshipers in love and peace can't be the true God because the true God said:
"You must not murder"
Of course a murderer knows what he did is evil because he ought not to kill his victim who is innocent but when two individuals pick up weapons against one another and pray in the name of the same god for victory then such a god is false it can't be the true God who hates the killing of His worshipers.

So whenever you want to call my name remember that my own God will never ever approve of His worshipers to war against themselves that's confusion.

Thanks for your time!

JimRohn:
First, your entire approach reeks of willful ignorance mixed with a desperate attempt to rewrite history on your terms. You trot out selective hadiths and snippets without context, then act as if quoting them is some kind of knockout proof—when all you do is expose your shallow understanding.

Let me dismantle your weak assertions point-by-point:

1. Collection = assembly, yes. But assembly does NOT mean a final bound codex in the Prophet’s lifetime.
You are conflating the act of gathering revelations (memorized & written fragments) with the finished mushaf—something explicitly compiled after his death. Islamic sources confirm no single complete physical Quran existed under Muhammad ﷺ. Get that through your head.

2. Yes, the Prophet ﷺ had scribes who wrote down verses on palm leaves, bones, parchments—but this was partial, scattered, and ongoing with revelation.
No official “book” existed. It was a patchwork, not a printed Bible-style codex.

3. You claim Muhammad ﷺ rearranged the whole Quran? No reputable Islamic scholar supports this.
The hadith you cite (Sunan Abi Dawud 786) shows only that he instructed placement of verses as they came, not that he produced a final ordered book. Uthman’s statement refers to arranging surahs within a category, not a finished Quran manuscript.

4. Regarding Aisha’s Quran “copy,” your evidence is laughably twisted.
Yes, she had portions memorized and written down, but nowhere does any authentic source say she had a complete, finalized physical mushaf. Your cited Bukhari 4993 shows her reciting and dictating, not possessing a “full, ordered book.” Stop reading what you want into texts.

5. Your fantasy that Abu Bakr’s mushaf was an imperfect, error-ridden collection from faulty memories is a straw man.
The committee under Abu Bakr and later Uthman meticulously cross-checked memorization and written fragments—not guesswork or random copying from “thousands of minds.” Your ignorance of ijmāʿ and rigorous methods is glaring.

6. You say “take the Quran from FOUR”—and then accuse Muslims of ignoring that?
The four canonical reciters (Qira’at) are variants accepted under scholarly supervision—not competitors vying for “one true text.” Your misunderstanding is obvious.

7. Your insistence on a “perfect” identical physical mushaf under Muhammad ﷺ is historically false and dismisses overwhelming Muslim scholarly consensus.
There was no such codex. Your narrative reeks of Biblical projection and fails under scrutiny.

Now, to your “questions”—answered in brutal brevity:

1. Aisha’s Quran incomplete?
Yes. Multiple reliable Islamic sources confirm she had fragments, memorized portions, not a final codex.

2. Was Aisha’s Quran ordered as Muhammad’s?
No final order existed under Muhammad ﷺ. Order was standardized posthumously.

3. Did Ubayy ibn Ka'b have a complete Quran?
No final codex. He was a respected reciter and scribe with memorized fragments.

4. Was Abu Bakr’s Quran identical to Muhammad’s?
There was no “Muhammad’s Quran” codex to be identical with. Abu Bakr’s committee created the first official compilation.

5. Was the Quran perfectly memorized by followers?
Memorization was exceptionally strong; thousands were hafiz. Any minor variant was corrected through rigorous verification.

6. Why were the four reciters not used during Abu Bakr’s collection?
Because the official mushaf was based on collective memorization and written fragments, not dependent on any single individual reciter’s version.

If you want to debate Islamic history, come equipped with full context, not half-truths and your biased assumptions. Until then, keep parroting your broken narrative while the Islamic tradition stands tall—preserved, verified, and unmatched.

TenQ:
Same Deity: different shades!
Don't derail this thread!

You are the one derailing your own thread because i never quoted you i'm only signalling the other guy who chose to include me in his thread that i don't argue aimlessly i hit the nail on the head.
So instead of quoting me expecting support simply because you claim Christian you should have ignored me since i wasn't talking to you directly.

TenQ:
Boo hoo!
Same Deity: different shades!

Pharisees also thought Jesus should support them after all they read the same set of books, worships in the same temple and calls the name of the same God but Jesus declared to them that they aren't worshiping his God.
Why?
Because they were doing what they feel like doing not what God commanded them in the scriptures!

So Jesus didn't send us out to argue aimlessly rather we are to present the message of the good news of God's Kingdom! Matthew 10:7

This is like asking anyone who claims he or she is worshiping the true God to present the practical benefits of God's Kingdom among those doing God's will {Matthew 6:16-18} in absence of such fine works ọmọ such faith is dead! James 2:18-26

TenQ:
It's okay. Don't detail my thread. I have not come to your door step. Except, you want to defend your fellow brother in Allah on hot seat!

They are your brothers in ARGUMENTS!

Note that none of you is interested in the practical benefits of the words of your gods it's meaningless arguments of no use you're all worried about.

My own brothers don't believe in any religious books that's making no meaningful impact among the adherents of whatever we call the word of our God! Matthew 15:6

TenQ:
I hear you!
No Difference between you and them!

Because i told you the bitter truth shey?

Ọmọ whatever you call your book makes no sense to any neutral observer except adherents of your book prove what they are saying by ACTION! Matthew 7:21-23