₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
So let's check what the Greek translation for I exist is.
“I Exist” – ὑπάρχω (hyparchō)
I Am” (ἐγώ εἰμι)
Come oh, are you sure you guys translated for the Greek version and not from toilet paper?

Even if it's from cow poo as long as it's yielding positive results ọmọ that's the correct rendering according to Jesus!

"Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:17-18

No matter what you call it as long as it's yielding positive results Jesus said that's the CORRECT RENDERING!

Just try to unite your I AM worshipers let the world see how love exists among you people! John 13:34-35

tctrills:
So I just checked with your JW bible.
It says " I have been"
Now the Greek for that would have been (ἐγὼ ἦν or ἐγὼ γέγονα)
But the Greek reads
I Am” (ἐγώ εἰμι)
You see your white overlords messed up?

I am telling you that in the next edition it would be rendered "i existed" and nothing will change because it's just a statement!

tctrills:
Lol,
It's not I Am, it's not I was, it just nothing.
You guys are impossible.
You don't need to Accept I am, just show your own Greek translation.

I have told you there is nothing in that translation other than simple statement which means:

"Before Abraham i exist"

That's what we believe and is working for our good just as Jesus said that it's the fruit that matters not whatever name you give your god! Matthew 7:16-18

tctrills:
You just claimed Jesus Christ has failed woefully to unite His worshippers and that's your reason for inventing your own God and writing your own scripture. No problem.

Even after I have corrected you and shown you the words of Christ, you choose to remain stubborn.

Let me ask, how did you come about the I was translation? Was that the correct Greek word or did someone in the US corrupt the translation to create their own God?

I never told you there is anything like "I WAS" you fabricated it because i rejected your impotent I AM.

tctrills:
Ok
But then stop using your false translation of the Words of Christ.

That's the only translation that united all faithful people throughout the earth and made them one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers. Isaiah 2:2-4

I wonder what your true translation has achieved among the worshipers of your I AM!

tctrills:
I would have agreed with you if we did not have the Greek records.
Thank goodness, today anyone with a smart phone can translate the Greek text.
So there is no excuse.
Did the Greek text as I Am or I Was?
And. It clearly stated I Am.
So why should we change the Saviour's words in the name of translation?
You are changing the Saviour's words just to fit your organization right?

Go and worship your I AM with it's other worshipers at least you people will have something to benefit from your worship of this your I AM!

tctrills:
No no,. You can't misquote the very words of Christ and blame it on translation.
John recorded
ἐγώ εἰμι — “I AM
But your white overlords teach ἐγὼ ἦν - "I was.
Please forgive me for going with John and not the Americans.

Forgive your I AM that has failed woefully to unite it's worshipers i am less concerned with whatever your problem is.
Jesus said:
"before Abraham i exist"
Simple as ABC!

tctrills:
Oga, we already read the meaning of what Christ said. If all he wanted to say was that he existed before Abraham, he would have said I was” (in Greek, ἐγὼ ἦν), but instead, he says ἐγώ εἰμι — “I AM. Jesus Christ did not make a grammatical mistake, so stop trying to correct him.

It's translation against translation there is nothing more!

tctrills:
All that means is that your bible did not come from the original Greek bible. Could you please tell us the source of your bible? And yes, I agree with the testimony of John, Jesus Christ is the Great I Am. It is your choice if you disagree with the Lord's words in favour of your white man boss.

It's translation against translation there is nothing new in that!

FreeIgboho:
So who now filled his former position of chief warrior Angel Michael?
Do you know that section you bolded is the definition of worship and only God is to be worshipped?

Heaven differs from earth, angels are in two categories:
Cherubs: warriors in heaven.
Seraphs: singers in heaven.

Michael is the first angel so he controls all of them but after the rebellion the two categories had members that joined the rebellion against God's authority so by the time Michael was transformed into a human all the angels in heaven focused to see what will be the outcome of his earthly mission and by the time he said:


“It is finished.” ‭John 19:30 NIV‬

All rebellious angels in heaven knew that their days are numbered because their stay in heaven depends on the outcome of Michael's earthly mission.

There no section that has to do with worship except for the father anything else is obedience to God's chosen king!

FreeIgboho:
Did he become Angel Michael again when he came back from earth?

The scriptures said about him:

For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11

Was he elevated like this before he came to the earth?
If he was then what is the essence of the verse again?

Ọmọ he was Archangel Michael meaning the first out of the foremost angels but it was after his successful earthly mission that he earned something greater than what he was before!

Also, when you pray, do not act like the hypocrites, for they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the main streets to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.  But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you.  When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.  So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him. Matthew 6:5-8

Above is what the founder of Christianity said so what do you think about people claiming they are his followers but doing what is contrary? Matthew 15:7-9

FreeIgboho:
And he was also Moses. But angel Michael is a powerful warrior, leader of the heavenly armies, patron saint of armies, soldiers, police officers. So who was filling that role while Jesus was on earth being a pacifist and Son of God?

There was no war in heaven when Jesus (archangel Michael) came to the earth nah.
Satan and all his demons were busy here trying to make his mission unsuccessful.

It's after his successful earthly mission that they discovered they are in big trouble because his sacrifice has made it possible for humans to go and rule with him in heaven where Satan and his demons are no longer needed!

tctrills:
He is the Great I Am according to the account of John.

There is no "I AM" in my own Bible so if you wish to worship I AM it's OK try to agree with your fellow I AM people first on how to do God's will!

Jesus existed before Abraham.
That's the simple meaning of what Jesus said!

tctrills:
Lol
I sent you the text used in the original Greek writings of John and the English interpretation.
For me, I would believe John the beloved Apostle of Jesus Christ and not you or any other I too know on Nairaland.

You don't even speak Greek yet you are ready to argue with what you don't know.

πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγὼ εἰμί
Prin Abraam genesthai, egō eimi

Which literally translates to:

“Before Abraham came into being, I am.”
Why Not Say “I was”?
Grammatically, we’d expect Jesus to say “I was” (in Greek, ἐγὼ ἦν), but instead He says ἐγώ εἰμι — “I AM.”

Jerryhare:
Is Paul servant of God?

YES, he is that's why he told us that the scriptures is not complete in his days:

For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially,  but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 1Corinthans 13:9-10

This means until the scriptures is completely revealed there is no complete knowledge of God's word!

Jerryhare:
The books Jesus read on sabbath day, was it not completed?

YES that's why Jesus' life and ministry is not written in the OT.

Jerryhare:
is God of Old testament different from the New testament?

NO that's why He made us to understand that the message is not yet complete in the last book of the OT.

Before asking Christians who follows why not ask Christ their leader?

Jesus said:

“Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword" Matthew 26:52

Jesus (Christ) condemns the use of weapons to settle disputes.

WHY?

Because his disciples are to go and preach about the Kingdom of God where Jesus will rule as king till eternity.
So if i am preaching God's Kingdom in Iran and you are preaching God's Kingdom in Israel that makes us brothers in Christ Jesus whatever dispute goes on between worldly politicians has nothing to do with our message {John 17:14-16} therefore instead of picking up weapons or supporting either sides which will surely leads to killing our own fellow believers in both countries true believers in Christ shun wars! Isaiah 2:4

FreeIgboho:
😅
You forgot to say Jesus came secretly in 1914. Can't they simply admit that Russel (founder of JW) was wrong about 1914 as he was about so many things

Of course Jesus began ruling in heaven since the year 1914 and if you say God's people are wrong for some things that's true they've been wrong in certain things since the days of John the baptist until now but they've never stopped doing what they ought to do!

FreeIgboho:
You forgot to say he's angel.Gabriel and Moses

Of course Jesus in his prehuman life was archangel Michael nah!

FreeIgboho:
Maxindhouse has gone mute.😆
So this settles this for good.
Plus the Bible said Jesus spoke with extraordinary authority, so he must have emphasized the "I am" so there was no doubt what he meant. Plus his body language, attitude, and other words that didn't make it into the Bible, must have left absolutely no doubt what he meant!

I have a lot of things to do so it's only when i see your posts that i respond nah!
Jesus is our Brother, Master, Lord and King not our God o!

"Before Abraham i exist"
That's what Jesus meant it's your people in Trinity that fabricated your "I AM" and started using it to promote their Trinity!

tctrills:
Again, you are wrong. First, you don't even speak Hebrew. Secondly, the New Testament was written in Greek, not Hebrew.

“Before Abraham was, I am.” — John 8:58

Jesus says this during a tense exchange with the Pharisees. The moment is theologically profound, and the wording is deliberate.

Was It Written in Greek?
Yes. The Gospel of John was originally written in Koine Greek, and the original Greek for this verse is:

πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγὼ εἰμί
Prin Abraam genesthai, egō eimi

Which literally translates to:

“Before Abraham came into being, I am.”
Why Not Say “I was”?
Grammatically, we’d expect Jesus to say “I was” (in Greek, ἐγὼ ἦν), but instead He says ἐγώ εἰμι — “I AM.”

This grammatical oddity is intentional. Scholars agree that Jesus is echoing the divine name of God revealed in Exodus 3:14, when God says to Moses:

“I AM WHO I AM” (Hebrew: Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh)
Greek Septuagint (LXX): ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν — “I am the One who is”

By saying ἐγώ εἰμι in John 8:58, Jesus isn’t just claiming pre-existence — He’s claiming divinity.

What Do Scholars Say?
Theological scholars (both Christian and Jewish) recognize that Jesus’ use of “I AM” here is not normal grammar — it's a theological claim.

Craig Keener, a New Testament scholar, says:

“Jesus uses language associated with God’s self-revelation... not merely claiming pre-existence, but divine identity.”

Raymond E. Brown, a Catholic biblical scholar, notes:

“This is the clearest Johannine statement of Jesus’ divinity before the resurrection.”

And the reaction from the crowd confirms this:

“Then they took up stones to throw at Him...” — John 8:59
Because blasphemy — claiming to be God — was punishable by death (Leviticus 24:16).

Some do interpret John 8:58 as meaning “I was” instead of “I am.” However, that interpretation doesn’t hold up well when examined through the lens of Greek grammar and biblical context.

Let’s unpack it carefully:

The Original Greek:
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγὼ εἰμί
Prin Abraam genesthai, egō eimi
“Before Abraham came into being, I am.”

γενέσθαι = "to become" or "to come into existence" (aorist infinitive of ginomai — describing Abraham’s beginning)

ἐγώ εἰμι = "I am" (present active indicative of eimi, the present tense of “to be”)

Could It Mean “I Was”?
Some argue Jesus meant “I was,” because:

It seems more natural in English grammar to say “Before Abraham was, I was.”

Jesus is speaking about existence prior to Abraham, so it feels like a past-tense idea.

However, in Greek, if Jesus had wanted to say “I was,” He would have used the past tense form:

ἐγώ ἦμην — I was

But He deliberately uses ἐγώ εἰμί — I am — which is present tense, not past.

What Does the Greek Grammar Actually Support?
Greek scholars point out:

The juxtaposition of “Abraham came into being” (γενέσθαι, aorist past tense) and “I am” (εἰμί, present tense) is intentional and meaningful.

This isn't just bad grammar — it's theological emphasis. Jesus is contrasting Abraham’s beginning with His own eternal existence.

Greek allows this construction to indicate timeless existence, especially in philosophical or theological contexts.

Why It Doesn’t Mean Just “I Was”
If Jesus were simply claiming pre-existence, He would have said “I was.”

But “I am” (ἐγώ εἰμί) makes a bolder, theological claim — it ties back to Exodus 3:14, where God reveals His name as “I AM.”

The crowd’s reaction — picking up stones to stone Him — suggests they understood this as a claim to divinity, not just an odd grammar slip.

FreeIgboho:
Wait for what? Will be like waiting for Armageddon of 1914. Whatever happened to that generation of 1914 prophesy? What is the excuse? I'm asking sincerely as I truly want to know. Hasn't the generation all passed away and no Armageddon?

Is Armageddon prophecy written in the Bible? Revelations 16:16
What do you think about this prophecy?
Well since you said:
"I'm asking sincerely as I truly want to know"
I will oblige.
God's organization (people) has always been interested in the time when badness will end so they keep on looking for each prophecy in the scriptures seek meaning to each prophecy and so far so good they keep on WORKING towards the end just as a prophet told them:

For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late! Habakkuk 2:3

Have they gotten perfect interpretations to all these prophecies?
NO!
So Armageddon is not from modern day servants of my God it has been written thousands of years ago John the baptist and Jesus' disciples all got things wrong too that doesn't mean they were false prophets o!
This generation Jesus mentioned actually confused Jesus' first century apostles too but today we know better it simply means the generation that witnessed all the composite sign of the endtime not just those who saw how the signs started.

FreeIgboho:
God of your choice😅 Thats a good one. Oga, whatever the higher-ups decide is your choice and you dare not deviate from it. You have no choice, you are owned. When they said beards weren't good, beards were the worst thing, then they changed there minds and it became a beautiful thing. Same thing women wearing trousers. One day they'll decide Jesus is God after all and just like that you'll be singing it overnight!

Wait until then nah!

FreeIgboho:
You are IEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. Where do you see Jesus there. Why are you suddenly elevating him? Isn't he just a prophet like Moses anymore or Angel Gabriel? Even Thomas and in Gelatians 2 the apostles had minds of their own NOT robots? Even the Bereans were praised for having minds of their own. But to be in an organization where you can't even ask a question for fear of being disfellowshiped? Sad, really sad

Asking questions?

Ọmọ is it before dedicating my life to the God of my choice or after studying God's word for decades and asking thought provoking questions to be certain that it is my choice of God this organization worships that i will start all over again questioning what i have chosen with all my heart?

Well Jehovah's Witnesses differs from you people where you just enter a place of worship before you start studying the type of god they worship there!

FreeIgboho:
That's how you know without a doubt you are a brainwashed robot. Thinking humans who use their God-given brains will always have areas of divergence. Even people who witness same event give differing accounts of it. But for you it is a matter of "you people" vs. "me and my brothers", with no iota of reflection involved. Sad, isn't it?

That's what your type in the first century called our brothers back then because we will always have the same line of thought {John 17:22; 1Corinthans 1:10; Ephesians 4:3} that's exactly what Jesus the firstborn of our family said about our father when he said:

"I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

And prayed for his brothers (disciples) to be the same with him and his father:

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.  I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. John 17:22-23

If you call us CULT {Matthew 10:24-24} we are happy, if you call us psychopaths we are pleased it's exactly what your type said about our brother (Jesus)


Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”
‭John 10:20 NIV‬

But one thing is certain in our spiritual family we can't think outside the house of faith:

‭
“When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me." John 8:28 NIV‬

So my guy it's your (I AM family) that's not united in thought as each of you just want to have his own idea about what your god should be {Genesis 3:1-5} but as for Jesus and we his brothers we don't think outside what our father says!

FreeIgboho:
So we agree, Jesus did say he was God the Son of God. You and your brothers globally can agree on whatever you wish, just don't keep arguing "obeisance", "I exist", etc

We don't argue among ourselves it's you people that can never ever agree on the same line of thought regarding your god one thing or another will always divide you making you people idle yet claiming Christians!

CodeTemplarr:
Have you reconnected with your oldtime friend Bishop Oyedepo? The one you used to teach the word with a certain sister in early 90s? Lol.

You misconstrued that message!

I never had any one on one discussion with Mr David Oyedepo it's the same JWs that studied with me back then who used to go and study with him but i kept everything and believe it's good to be a Christian without monetizing faith in Christ while he decided to turn his back on his teachers due to the love of money.

Thanks!

Jerryhare:
And the scripture Jesus read in synagogue on sabbath day was written after the demise of all servants of God too isn't it

Of course it's part of the books that makes up the Bible which Paul said it's still IN PARTS that's why Paul and his companions had PARTIAL KNOWLEDGE of God's word! 1Corinthans 13:9

"For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially"

He said this because the Bible has not been completed.

But after it's completion Jesus said:

“I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;  and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll." Revelations 22:18-19

This means NO ADDITION and NO SUBTRACTION!

FreeIgboho:
And he had to say it using those exact words that mean God to Israelites. Plus other things he also said that never made it into the Bible, plus attitude, plus body language, plus he said the same "I am" to the chief priest, plus "I and the Father are one", plus "once you've seen me, you've seen the father", etc.
Simple, Jesus said he was God because he is!

Guy, i told you earlier that with my own brothers globally we agreed that Jesus is not our God because we know how Jesus defined God for us in his thoughts, words and actions.

Why not agree with the other guy after all he is one of your "I AM" people?

tctrills:
Ok good you reinvented the bible. Every man to his bible

That verse was translated from Hebrew so it wasn't "I AM" in Hebrew!

tctrills:
No, here is the verse.
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am !
It's not difficult to grasp that Jesus Christ is the I Am of the old testament.

My own Bible reads:

“Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” John 8:58

Nothing like "i am" there!

FreeIgboho:
So why did the Jews read it to mean he was claiming to be God? Is he the only person in the history of Israel who has said "I exist"?

Abraham is the grandfather of Jacob the man called "Israel" who gave birth to the twelve sons that became the nation of Israel.
So if a 33 year old man says he existed before Abraham then he is declaring himself to be a god because only gods are immortal!

That's why they said:

“You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” John 8:57

It's easy to understand!