₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
The real Messiah is a king..
He will be the one to collect both tax and tithe....

So continue WAITING for his arrival!

Gabrielshow24:
You act as
If Jesus didn't say "before Abraham was, I am" 🤨.

How is he before Abraham, in the SPIRIT or in the FLESH?
Nobody knew anyone bearing Jesus before his birth in the first century so how possible could he be before Abraham if he's not talking about his prehuman existence?
So whatever makes Jesus the firstborn it means he was the first creature from the God and Father of all creations! John 20:17

Broveens42:
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]
You need to take your story book more seriously to realize the biblical Israelites most times, didn't take their god seriously

Of course they are stiff-necked people but they are still keeping the laws with them even though they don't understand what those laws entails.
Ọmọ you really need help o!

Steep:
Did he say he built it by himself?
Let me help you,

Ecclesiastes 2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

Again this only means his labour's it does not mean he did it by himself as Jehovah said he created by himself and no one with him.

Guy nah the same thing.

Proverbs 8:22-31 clearly stated that someone was beside the Almighty God serving as the craftsman!

Steep:
So which big man would say he build a mansion by himself whereas he didn't do it by himself.

I know you will ask this question that's why i've hidden it from the beginning of our discussion.

This is what a King said about a city:

“Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?” Daniel 4:30

Now Mr Steep please did king Nebuchadnezzar built the city of Babylon himself by his own strength?

Steep:
But Jesus is greater than Michael. How can he be what he is greater than? Heb 1:4

You quoted Hebrews 1:4

So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Jesus was an angel back in heaven but after his earthly mission he was GIVEN a HIGHER POSITION than theirs? Matthew 28:18

So it was after his earthly mission that Jesus earned a name and position that no angel has not before his earthly mission!

Broveens42:
If you were intelligent, you would notice where I said they are mere tales...

If you are intelligent you should know that such can't be (mere tales) yet Israelites takes Moses and the laws given to him seriously.

Gabrielshow24:
Not disputing that!
You could as well take it from the physical perspective.
It doesn't diminish the fact that he is timeless hence it was his wish that he should be born in flesh which the bible corroborates!
Jesus is God that existed as a physical being!

How can Jesus be BORN (FIRST) but many were born before him in the flesh?

Gabrielshow24:
Which means technically the Son hath "no beginning"

Even the word "SON" alone has proved that he has a beginning because he was BORN!

Broveens42:
It baffles me how grown adults take mere tales/allegories for real life experiences

So the story of Moses was allegory shey?

Ọmọ wahala dey for Okoko o!

sonmvayina:
My friend, there is no second coming arrangements anywhere in the Tanakh.
The Messiah will do those things, that is how they will know he is the Messiah.

We read in the Bible book of Daniel

And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations. Daniel 9:26

According to this verse:
*Messiah will be killed just as Jesus of Nazareth was killed.
*The people of a leader (Romans) will come and destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the holy place (Temple) just as the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and it's temple after the Jews rejected Jesus of Nazareth.
*All the tribes of Israel will be swept away from the promised land like a flood just as the twelve tribes are lost till today.
*And until the end time Jerusalem will continue to be terrorized by wars here and there just as it's happening today.

So who told you Jesus of Nazareth is not the Messiah (Christ) with all these fulfilment?

Steep:
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

When a rich man claims he builds a mansion all by himself does it mean he never employed craftsmen working for him?
The brain behind creation of things is Jehovah but after creating the firstborn of all creations {Colossians 1:15 compare to Proverbs 8:22} Jehovah employed His firstborn Son to do other works under His supervision.

Steep:
How can Jesus be angel Michael when he is greater than angel michael.

Ọmọ Jesus is archangel Michael that's why the same angel is said to be the one standing for the salvation of obedient mankind! Daniel 12:1 compare to Matthew 23:37-38

Jesus is the head of all loyal spirit sons of God (angel) that's why he is called the "archangel". Matthew 25:31 compare to Revelations 12:7

Jesus is the resurrection {John 11:25} that's why his archangel's voice is used when it comes to the resurrection of dead souls! John 11:43 compare to 1Thessalonians 4:16

In the Bible book of Daniel 10:13 we read that Michael came to rescue the situation just as he did at Jude 1:9 this is the same angel who has been representing Jehovah for the salvation of God's people! Exodus 13:21; 14:19

So Jesus is the archangel Michael who often comes to salvage the situation anytime rebellious angels stands against the will of God!

Steep:
God can take on human form and die, if Jehovah described himself as a "us" in Gen 1 v26 it means he can pray to Jehovah.

There is just two entities at Genesis 1:26 talking:
Jehovah was talking to Archangel Michael (the prehuman Jesus) Proverbs 8:22-31

Steep:
yes in human form carrying out his mission.
This below is according to jw.org
SONG 104 God’s Gift of Holy Spirit
PREVIEW a
1. What can Jehovah do in order to accomplish his purpose?
JEHOVAH can become whatever is necessary in order to accomplish his purpose. For instance, Jehovah has become a Teacher, a Comforter, and an Evangelizer, just to name a few of his many roles. (Isa. 48:17; 2 Cor. 7:6; Gal. 3: Still, he often uses humans to carry out his purposes. (Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20; 2 Cor. 1:3, 4)

Of course Jehovah does whatever it takes to fulfill His purpose but He can not die or pray to anyone!

Brenbentondiaz:
Which Bible verse says it's compulsory for a Christian to pay tithe? Which Bible verse says you owe tithes as a Christian? And finally, which Bible verse did you see that tithe was money?

This people don't count on what the Bible say rather once their Daddy G.O say something it's more authentic than the Bible itself!

Steep:
This clearly shows Jesus is Almighty God.

During his life on earth, (Jesus) offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. Hebrews 5:7

Are you sure this person is the ALMIGHTY?

Brenbentondiaz:
So, Jesus in Revelation was still in human form, right? For your own sake I hope it's either you are taking the piss, or you were feeling sleepy when you typed this response.

When WISDOM is missing then you'll see how imperfect humans can be easily confused with letters! 2Corinthians 3:6 compare to Hosea 4:6

There are two humans in the Bible called "God"

Moses {Exodus 7:1} and Jesus {John 1:1} both of them are not false just as we can't say a trained and certified medical doctor is a FAKE doctor. The training both Moses and Jesus received from the Almighty God qualified them to serve in that capacity that's why God told the Israelites:

I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Why did God compare Moses to Jesus in this verse?
Well it's because both of them will serve as God during their lifetime but none of them claimed to be God.
During the time of Moses Egyptians have many Gods and these Gods are real to them because they support them with spiritism but when Moses stepped his foot in Egypt after being trained and certified to serve as God all the Gods of Egypt became ordinary statues with no power to save the Egyptians from being wiped out with the signs and wonders performed by Moses.
So just as a medical doctor is trained and certified to serve Moses and Jesus were both trained and certified by the Almighty to serve as Gods during their lifetime and just as a medical doctor will present his credentials to prove he has been trained Moses and Jesus presented their credentials before their audience that the Almighty God is their TEACHER who taught them whatever they are doing.

What about FALSE Gods?
Just as a fake doctor can't present any credentials nor perform excellently in that field no other Gods from any source can prove to be powerful than Moses and Jesus both trained and certified by the Almighty God Himself.

So when some people now feel that Jesus and his father are of the same grade it's really funny because both Moses and Jesus always tell their audience that they are nothing beside the one who sent them!

Janosky:
These MUMU dummy Trinitarians deceiving themselves as if the imperfect disciples claim at John 16:30 would supercede Jesus rebuttal at Acts 1:8 & Matthew 24:36.
Very low IQ dullards.

A Nairalander once said about MaxInDhouse:

SeniorMan715:
The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

So even when MaxInDhouse told this man that he doesn't know everything Max shouldn't be taken seriously rather the Nairalander is right!

Steep:
Jehovah's Witnesses: How does Colossians 2:9, not prove the Trinity?
Jehovah’s Witnesses argue that θεότης in Colossians 2:9 means “divine nature” or “divinity,”
Jehovah's Witnesses commit a serious lexical error.

Have you ever wondered why the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES always comes to your mind anytime you people are thinking about real scholars of the Bible?
Instead of arguing with God's organization why not concentrate on the benefits of your own doctrines if truly you people are worshiping the true God?

*Jesus sent his disciples to go and make disciples {Matthew 28:18-20} only Jehovah's Witnesses are making disciples who are active globally while all others just gather bench warners in worship centers making noise to disturb the peaceful neighborhood. Matthew 12:19

*Jesus commanded his disciples not to hate their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} so that they can prove to be the children of their heavenly Father {Matthew 5:43-45} only Jehovah's Witnesses have become friendly throughout the earth never raising weapons against their neighbors. Matthew 26:52

*Jesus commanded his disciples to always obey those in high authority {Matthew 5:41} only Jehovah's Witnesses will never join in any protest against those in authority! Romans 13:1-3

*Jesus said his disciples will have love among themselves {John 13:34-35} only Jehovah's Witnesses comes to mind when anyone talks about the religion where love for fellow believers is deeply rooted in their minds! 1Peter 4:8

*Jesus said his disciples will be spoken of abusively by other religionists around them {Matthew 5:11-12} only Jehovah's Witnesses comes to mind anytime different religions comes together to accuse a religion but they can't single out any evil this people did apart from their unique faith!

*Jesus commanded his disciples to be harmless as doves in the society {Matthew 10:16} only Jehovah's Witnesses members are never found among hooligans terrorizing their neighborhood.


I can go on and on but when it comes to faith in God each of you just wake up early in the morning and the next thing that comes to your mind is what to say against Jehovah's Witnesses yet you can't mention the name of your own church because you know quite well that there are thousands of different religions claiming they're all Christians contradicting themselves in teachings and doctrines.
So what exactly do you gain deceiving yourself always raising your tongue against the one and only organization that's having unique faith? Isaiah 54:17

Steep:
I don't think you understand the qualifications only true God has rendered every other god a false god. Claiming Jesus only bard the title God is calamitous because Jesus created all things and by implication according to you a false god created all things, and again according to col 2.9 Jesus is not God by mere title he has full essence of God making him same God with the father.

You mixed up the whole thing!

Almighty God trained and certified both Moses and Jesus to serve as Gods unlike those who aren't trained nor certified but claiming they are Gods.

Note one thing, both Moses and Jesus were given set of rules that will help whoever follow the rules to live peacefully with their fellow adherents that is something no false God can do not even Satan can set rules to make imperfect humans live peacefully.

So both Moses and Jesus are Gods trained and certified by the Almighty God!

The title "GOD" connotes SUPREME RULER and that means one who supposed to set standards among intelligent beings so when the true God made Moses and Jesus like Gods {Exodus 7:1; John 1:1} they are to do unnatural things that is unexplainable to the common man which qualifies them to set standards but the truth is both Moses and Jesus relied on the One who sent them as the rightful ruler over them whereas those CLAIMING they are Gods don't want anyone to tell them what is right or wrong! Genesis 3:4-5 compare to Psalms 82:6

dawnomike:
She did no wrong...

The problem is bringing a child into the world without a husband, a father, father's family will make life miserable for the child if the child is one that appreciates family ties!

Ken4Christ:
Your ignorance and lies has no match. Rutherford has cast the spirit of lies into you. You are indeed a double candidate for hell.

Ooooooooollllllllllleeeeeeeeee!
THIEF!

There is no tithing in the first century Christian congregation!

Bashcash2024:
Pls direct me to the book.

Also pls help me with two thousand naira pls. I'm starving here in sch 🙏🙏

For the book ask Jehovah's Witnesses in your neighborhood:

Enjoy Life Forever! An Interactive Bible Course.

Published by the Watchtower Bible and tract society.

But as for money i don't have!

itu404:
we hinder blessings both spiritual and temporal, if we do not stay in obedience.

Obedience to what exactly?
There are thousands of religions?
In just one called Christianity using one book (Bible) there is over 41,000 different religions claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines.
So how do we know what obedience to God really entails?

Bashcash2024:
I want to know?
Why do we pray and fast and nothing still changes?
Why the sufferings?
Why the hardships?
Why the Pains?
Does God derive pleasure in seeing us Go through Pains?
I don't understand

I would have loved to direct you to a book that answered your questions but first you need to know:
Who is God?
What is His relationship with humans?

For the two highlighted i will use an illustration that can help your findings.

What do you expect from a father whose children turned against him because a slanderer lied against him and his children chose to obey the slanderer instead of their father?
If the man should kill the slanderer instantly will that make his children trust him afterwards?
What if he allowed time for his children to see the difference between him and the slanderer to know who truly has their interest at heart?
Won't that teach them an unforgettable lesson that nobody can love them better than their father?
Thorough investigation will help us to learn more about God and why He stepped aside to allow certain things! Psalms 10:4

It's MASTURBATION in females!

Angels are unseen powerful beings, they are the ones ruling the earth after the fall of man in the garden of Eden and Satan is their head so the angel sent to Daniel was delayed by the angel in control of Persia because that's what fallen angels were struggling to do ever since they were disengaged in heaven.
Each of them wants to occupy a portion of the earth as its ruler and inhabitants of such a place will be worshiping that fallen angel.
So when Daniel prayed to God the angel sent to him had an encounter with the fallen angel in control of Persia as that one thought he was coming to possess his domain.
That's why (Jesus) Michael the Archangel came to help him as he is the one standing for the salvation of mankind! Daniel 12:1
This shows that humans are not the real rulers they are standing as representatives of demons who are ruling each portion of the earth and that's why no false religion can stop it's members from fighting and killing one another once they are living in different geographical locations because it's the angels controlling their location they are fighting for but when it comes to pure worship we know that geographical locations doesn't make us enemies! John 4:24

Ken4Christ:
First century Christians gave to the point of selling their possessions. Have you done that. In other words, they gave far above tithing. Get this into your brain. Jesus didn't say we should give anything. He said that we should give all - Luke 12:33.

"Sell your belongings and give gifts of mercy. Make money pouches that do not wear out, a never-failing treasure in the heavens, where no thief gets near and no moth consumes". Luke 12:33

“Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal. Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also". Matthew 6:19-21

How many disciples of Christ sold everything they had in the first century?

What Jesus said is that we should sell things that we don't really need but are kept as treasures to assist our fellow believers that needs to be cared for.
That's what the first century Christians did:
In fact, no one was in need among them, for all those who owned fields or houses would sell them and bring the value of what was sold, and they would deposit it at the feet of the apostles. In turn distribution would be made to each one according to his need. Act 4:34-35

This was meant for EQUALIZING:

but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 2Corinthians 8:14

So it has nothing to do with TITHING but CONTRIBUTIONS to assist the needy in their midst in order to fulfill what was written in the Bible book of Psalms 37:25:

I was once young and now I am old, But I have not seen anyone righteous abandoned, Nor his children looking for bread. compare to Psalms 23:1

With this no Christian will be in need of basic necessities to prove the riches of our God.

Now tell me which of your so called pastors has sold everything he had not even you because if you do the phone you're using now should has been sold too!

You can run but you can't hide there is no tithe in first century Christianity!

Thoth02:
You know I was just like you.... Until I made research and found out the truth.
The bible God is not who you think he is.
You won't change your mind because it's what you have been taught in church.
Make your own research and I pray you find answers. I don't like argument that would come to no conclusion. Stay blessed.

End of discussion!

No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah. Isaiah 54:17

Next time don't raise your tongue against the one and only true God.

May you have PEACE!

freshboi88:
Very typical of you, jumping from Scripture to Scripture. Okay let me apply your jumping technique. Jesus knows all things John 16:30

OK nah! Matthew 24:36

Ken4Christ:
Sure, they were also poor saints. But there are explicit instructions to support those who preach the gospel to you. Apostle Paul commended the Philippian church for the support they gave him. And he blessed them- Philippians 4:19.

You are not a child of God and you don't understand ministry. Don't you know that there are full time workers in most churches who do various work that makes the ministry function. Most of them are graduates. They are paid salaries. These are like Levites because they don't do any work apart from ministry work.

Staff working in so many churches can get up to 30 even to 50 staff depending on the size of the congregation and administrative structure in place. They have to be accommodated. And some of them need official cars. Salaries run into a few millions of naira monthly. Their salaries are paid through the tithes the brethren give.

Any church or ministry that do not have paid staff has no structure.

Guy, your religion is not Christianity if it's not working exactly as the first century Christian congregation and as for the support we give our traveling overseers it's not tithing rather each of us gives whatever our hearts moves us to give.

So stop all these nonsense tithing has no place in Christianity!

Ken4Christ:
So, you are not aware that there are many servants of God who don't earn salaries but are fully devoted to the work of the ministry. They are like the Levites.

Like I said earlier, God in his infinite wisdom demanded 10% from the other tribes. If he had just told the other tribes to support them with whatever they have, many of them would go hungry.

Under the New Testament, it is true that their is no definite instruction with regards to give 10% of our income to support ministers of the gospel. But there are instructions that they should be supported. Now, if those under the Old Testament supported the Levites with 10%, don't you think we should do much more under the New Testament?

Even our Lord Jesus cared enough for the poor that he demanded 100% to support them.

Apostle Paul personally put a structure in place in the Corinthians church where he demanded weekly support from them so saints in Jerusalem involved in the work of the ministry:

1st Corinthians 16:1-2
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

In Galatians, Apostle Paul aadmonished:

Galatians 6:6
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

So, we are instructed to support servants of God who preach and teach Gods word to us. The least support we should give should be 10% of our income. This is God's method under the Old Testament and it seems reasonable to adopt it.

And no one gives this support and loses out. You will reap what you sow And the more you give, the greater the harvest. Thus it is written:

1st Corinthians 9:6
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Those who condemn tithing don't believe it can open doors of blessings for them. If they do, instead of asking people to stop, they will give more.

Pastors are not made rich through your tithes. They are made rich by what they give and how they give. Remember, there are so many poor Pastors who collect tithes. So, if you see a wealthy Pastor today, it's not the tithes he collects that made him rich. It is what he gives including his tithes that he gives that makes him rich. In case you are not aware, most of these Pastors pay tithes to their spiritual fathers or to ministries they receive inspirations from.

NO!

The collection first century disciples of Christ were making is not for those who aren't doing anything to feed their families rather it's what they contributed to help their fellow believers in places where things were hard.
Read how it started back then:

Now after quite a number of years, I arrived to bring gifts of mercy to my nation and to make offerings. Act 24:17

For those in Mac·e·doʹni·a and A·chaʹia have been pleased to share their things by a contribution to the poor among the holy ones in Jerusalem. Romans 15:26

They asked only that we keep the poor in mind, and this I have also earnestly endeavored to do. Galatians 2:10

This they were doing as an equalizing to help their fellow believers in poor countries:

but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing 2 Corinthians 8:14

If anyone feels he or she is special or doing God a favor for being a Christian the Apostle say let such ones starve:

In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “[color=blue]If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.” 2Thessalonians 3:10[/b]

So there is no room for idleness claiming you are working for God without doing something to cater for your family:

Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith 1Timothy 5:8

So there is no man-no-work Christian in the first century even Apostle Paul worked to earn something:

and because he (Paul) had the same trade, he stayed at their home and worked with them, for they were tentmakers by trade. Act 18:3