₦airaland Forum

Most people often anticipate selfish gain like what will benefit them individually when talking about faith in God so it's best we first address the topic:

What is the purpose of the true religion?

jaephoenix:
Fruitcake

Does this mean Sarcasm?
Because that's what i does to people who knew fact but chose to twist it!

bobestman:
you think critically when you put your God given brain to work to get the right answers on issues. JWs have hijacked your brain with their dogtrines. If you don't teach it how they taught you, you may die. You regard their guess work more than what God says. You are just like a zombie doing their bidding thinking you are working for God. May the spell they used to bound your brain be broken. Say amen

Guy how do you come about a Messiah that has a wife and son nah?

tctrills:
Hell fire could be symbolism but it does not represent what can't be recalled to live. We are already told that it represents eternal torment. Do you get it now?
Its interesting, we both believe in eternal punishment the only difference is that I believe the bible that says the sinner would suffer eternal punishment.
While you believe that it's the innocent that would suffer eternal punishment in memory of the sinner. JW God is a clown

You believe eternal damnation but you think the damned will not return to dust rather they will be preserved alive gnashing their teeth.

Perhaps you don't know that teeth is made up of bones and bones are part of the human body God formed from the dust.
So if those in your eternal hellfire still possess bones then how do you reconcile that with the pronouncement of God that sinners will return to dust? Genesis 3:15; Psalms 104:29 Ecclesiastes 3:20; 12:7

tctrills:
According to JW but according to Jesus Christ, they would be tormented forever. My brother how would I leave Jesus Christ and believe you?

Jesus that can't bear the sight of people suffering {John 11:35} will now tell you that suffering will be for ever shey?

Ọmọ you know nothing about Jesus of Nazareth!

tctrills:
Obviously you don't understand what you read. Now let me educate you on Jeremiah 7.31
31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
Now you have read it. God never said he was against the eternal torment of the wicked. He only said he was against the people burning their sons.
On the other hand, in Revelations 20.10
Teaches that the wicked would be tormented forever.
Do you now understand?

Death is like a relief for any suffering creature God created life for His children (humans) to enjoy it {Genesis 1:26-28} He wants us to enjoy every moment of it to the full that's why He detests it when humans brings pain and suffering upon their fellow humans {Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9} so when humans alienated themselves from God He knew that the suffering will be much that's why He declared death upon them reducing their days {Genesis 6:3} and to the minimum of 70-80 {Psalms 90:10} so they can go and bring Him no more heart break because His eyes are too pure to continue looking unto the suffering of His children! Habakkuk 1:13

So if Satan now confused you into thinking this same person will now sustain humans in pains not for seconds or minutes or hours or days or weeks or years but forever.

Then it means you know nothing about our happy God! 1Timothy 1:11

tctrills:
You are right all sinners would die.
But your knowledge is incomplete.
Because he also said they would be resurrected.
And he also said they would be tormented for all eternity.
So your knowledge stopped where he said all sinners would die and you forgot to update.

Ọ̀DẸ̀!

How can they be tormented (in fire) forever if He said such idea hasn't come into His heart? Jeremiah 7:31

tctrills:
What further explanation do you want more than the words of Christ. They would be resurrected and they would inherit the kingdom of Heaven. What more do you want the bible to tell you?

OLÓDO!

It's two destination.
A part will live forever while the others will die forever. Simple as ABC!

tctrills:
It says they would be cast in fire. You are free to argue with the word of God. Remember no be mi write am

That's what i'm telling you, humble yourself and learn!

Death and Grave aren't living persons that sinned to be punished then use your sense the Lake Of Fire symbolize what will never be recalled to mind!

tctrills:
I believe that God is not a liar. You should try that sometimes

Well He said sinners will DIE {Genesis 2:17} not tormented alive Sir! Jeremiah 7:31

tctrills:
The second death is torment. The definition of the second death is death and hell cast into a lake of fire.
The second death has nothing to do with anyone dying.
Infact the verse you quoted shows the end of death as the second death.

This is getting more interesting!

So death and grave will be tormented shey? Revelations 20:14

tctrills:
Like Jesus Christ taught all would be resurrected and judged
John. 5.27-28.
And as Jesus Christ said Children would inherit the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19.14
Just read your bible and you wouldn't be asking me to explain these simple things to you.

Lóbátán.

You can't explain further!

Guy go and learn the ultimate wage for sin is DEATH! Romans 6:7, 23

That's what the Bible called the second death!

tctrills:
So you are saying Christ was wrong. The torment is not for the wicked but those that know the wicked right?
Infact, you are trying to correct Christ for saying the wicked would be tormented not those that know the wicked.
Also Ecclesiastes 9:6 has nothing to do with this because we learn that the Judgement comes after resurrection.

YES! Judgment comes after resurrection but at the same time the ultimate punishment is DEATH.
So after resurrection they will die a second time! Revelations 20:14-15

tctrills:
So you call God a liar right? Or you are smarter than Christ. Who do we believe? You or Christ?

Do you have any believe at all?

tctrills:
All the scriptures your quoted have nothing to do with resurrecting and eternal torment.
The verses you quoted do not oppose Resurrection and the torment of the wicked.
Unlike you, I do not agree with some verses and oppose others. These verses go hand in hand

The highlighted is hilarious indeed!

Oya explain what happened to babies that die in Noah's days if they're not God's enemies!

Aemmyjah:
Epic reply sir
Dont mind him
He's unlearnable
Having nothing to offer but asking questions like small pikin

Due to fear of atheists and their intimidating questions tctrills always say he's catching fun on Nairaland but he often raise topics that he should seek answers so after i've tried him for sometimes i discovered he's not sincere that's why i abandoned him.
Now he wants to argue yet he's back to default mode: always asking without answering.

If newly born babies aren't God's enemies like what Stephen Leth said why did God destroy millions of babies in Noah's days?

When Abraham the father of all those having faith was negotiating with God over Sodom and Gomorrah Abraham's first question is:

b]“Please, here I have presumed to speak to Jehovah, whereas I am dust and ashes. Suppose the 50 righteous should lack five. Because of the five will you destroy the whole city?” Genesis 18:27-28[/b]

Going by what most faithless miscreants think about little babies, did Abraham count those babies as God's friends when he asked for 45 righteous people?
Should any reasonable person think all the children in Sodom and Gomorrah are 45 in number?

Faithless miscreants!

tctrills:
So according to God's word DEATH is the ultimate punishment for sin not torment. God never said death is an ultimate punishment it's you saying it. Please lets depend on God's words not your opinion

God told Adam:

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die! Genesis 2:17

Satan told Eve:

“You certainly will not die" Genesis 3:4

Satan has been promoting this lie for thousands of years but God keep His own people duly informed regarding what happens at death! Ecclesiastes 9 5-10; Romans 6:7, 23

That's why you need to study the Bible with JWs otherwise you will continue to remain speechless regarding this things saying you're catching fun when interested individuals are learning!

tctrills:
So according to God's word DEATH is the ultimate punishment for sin not torment
Now let's read God's words to know if you are right. And this is no parable.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Ọ̀gbẹ́ni there's no Lake Of Fire anywhere it simply means death without a hope of resurrection for humans and conditions that will be done away with for good.

That's what it means:

And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire! Revelations 20:14

So the Lake Of Fire symbolize what will never be called to mind again, Satan, demons, false prophets, false religions, death and grave will never be heard again in the lives of those who survived into God's Kingdom.

That's what it means!

tctrills:
That's not the question here. The question is who suffers torment forever and ever. The living Jews of the unbelievers

The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are gone but the name of those cities is like torment to whoever knows what it means.
So whether you accept it or not the Jews that heard Jesus fully understood that the dead had no feelings {Ecclesiastes 9:6} it's the living that will feel bad being mentioned in connection with those that God punished!

tctrills:
Ok, the Jews feel shame in death but the black men feel shame only while alive?
So the dead Jews feel shame for eternity how?

Ọmọ Jews feel like relating with people who died as faithful worshipers of God but anyone who died as an unbeliever they don't want to be mentioned in connection with such a person!

tctrills:
How does this relate to their eternal torment and shame. So according to JW, the bible is wrong for telling us that these evil people would suffer torment forever rather we should believe the new JW teaching that no one would relate to them right?

You can believe whatever suit you but the one who created everything said:

They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’ Jeremiah 7:31

Paul said:

For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin" Romans 6:7

For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

So according to God's word DEATH is the ultimate punishment for sin not torment that's why the Bible says Jesus spoke and taught many things in parables {Matthew 13:34} you can continue dreaming of how God will extend the punishment of sin but we know that anything heard or written apart death is a parable what God told Adam in the beginning is either LIFE (full of activities) or DEATH (the condition of inactivity)

According to Jesus himself:

For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Matthew 12:40

Where is the heart of the earth?

David said:

For you will not leave me in the Grave. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit. Psalms 16:10 compare to Act 2:31

Apostle Peter said:

The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake! Act 5:30

So Jesus never went anywhere rather he was dead just like all other dead people who goes into a place of inactivity! Ecclesiastes 9:6, 10

But then what did Apostle Peter meant by the highlighted in red?

For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water. 1Peter 3:18-20

Let those who don't believe JWs know better than them figure it out without our help!

jaephoenix:
But your buybull said you shall inherit the land

When all evildoers are clearly away from this planet:

Commit your way to Jehovah; Rely on him, and he will act in your behalf. He will make your righteousness shine like daybreak, And your justice like the midday sun. Keep silent before Jehovah And wait expectantly for him. Do not be upset by the man Who succeeds in carrying out his schemes. Let go of anger and abandon rage; Do not become upset and turn to doing evil. For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth. Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace! Psalms 37:5-11

The above promise will be fulfilled when God's Kingdom comes that's why Jesus urged us to pray for it! Matthew 6:10

jaephoenix:
My question was before yours, sir

Were you born an atheist?

YES or NO.

tctrills:
So according to JW, when the bible says that the wicked would be tormented forever, it means that their friends would be tormented in their behalf right?

Ọmọ it simply means people who heard of them will never like to relate with them just as you won't hear anyone who will like to think about having anything to do with Sodom and Gomorrah!

tctrills:
I like your armed robber example better. So let's assume I have a robber friend that was killed, when I remember his death. I would be the one tormented not him or is it different for JW members. I would be the one to suffer shame not the dead guy. Is that not the same in your Church?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa. You have forgotten that this has to do with the Jews who has a different thought regarding shame not a black man like you who feel it's only when you're alive that shame is on you.

To a Jew shame is for those who failed not those that succeed. So anyone who failed to continue living after a thousand years of Christ reign is the one with everlasting shame because his friends will never like to feel being his friends again.

jaephoenix:
What if the baby becomes autistic or have Down's Syndrome and cannot listen to your preaching, does he go to hell?

Guy that's an infirmity but as long as we take the child to and fro our places of worship with other worshipers of God talking to him/her of course such a child has built a relationship with God's people. Now imagine Jesus is here with us and such a person is found among us what do you think Jesus will do?
Well let me take you there, Jesus will put a big smile on our faces by removing the infirmity.
That's exactly what will happen to anyone who is found among God's people as our guest in God's Kingdom!

tctrills:
I have a friend who died of an accident, when I remember him, does he get tormented?

Was his death a punishment from God?

If not then the hope of seeing him again will linger in your heart but let's imagine that he was caught with a gang of robbers and after he was convicted sentenced to death by hanging of course you will continue to feel he's gone forever never to be your friend again.

That's what it means!

tctrills:
Oga are you ok. Explain how to torment a dead man in your memory.
Please do you know the meaning of torment? Its impossible to torment another person in your memory oga. What are you even saying.

Ọmọ what comes to your mind when you remember the name Sodom and Gomorrah?

Do you remember that the city was once really influential and big commercial centers or the fire that came out of heaven to consume these cities?
Well that's what Revelations is simply telling you!

tctrills:
Oga you can't have eternal shame if you die. In fact death would save them from eternal shame. Death is clear opposite of eternal shame because you need to be alive to be ashamed forever.

Nooooooooo!
That's not how immortal beings reason, it's you who feels death is normal that thinks it's nothing to be ashamed of but as for people who have never tasted death for thousands of years it brings agony to their brains! Luke 22:39-43

Do you see where angels came consoling Jesus? Well they're simply reminding him that it's just for three days and three nights not forever!

tctrills:
Uncle, are these also the same people spoken of in Revelation 20:10

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

can you be tormented day and night forever and ever at death?

Ọmọ the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah are being tormented day and night in our memories as if fire is still falling upon those two cities.
That's what it means!

tctrills:
When did they find out that death has power over them? Was it after their death? Lol. So was their endless shame after death or before death? Your story get K leg

Ọmọ death is for those who are powerless so if after a thousand years of living youthful lives like immortals their death will mean eternal shame for them as they're unable to continue living with whatever they rely upon apart from faith in God.
That's what it means not that dead people will be somewhere roasting in some fire! Jeremiah 7:31