₦airaland Forum

bobestman:
if you read all the messiah said about babies you will surely know his stand. They are many and very clear. If you doubt the messiah what of God? Is God also wrong? You use logic to explain things you don't know. When your mumu go do? You are supposed to be hiding in shame. If the messiah is wrong according to you what of God?

God's word says "all (no matter your age) have sinned and fallen short of God's glory" Romans 3:23 compare to Psalms 51:5

Simple as ABC!

Esortigress:
I'm surprised he said he can't find Jehovah in the bible. Na WA ooo

He's just lying to his own soul!

Before i became one of Jehovah's Witnesses i also noticed that the divine name JEHOVAH is not in all translations so i asked the JWs who are studying with me back then.
Ọmọ what they told me really amazed me!
Because they said i should try and read the preface of any Bible version before reading the Bible. I was really shocked that all those versions acknowledged that God has a divine name but since the Jews stopped pronouncing it for centuries the original pronunciation has been forgotten.
The question now is if we have the four consonants "Y H W H" transliterated to "J H V H" does that mean we should abandon using a name for the Bible's Author?
Jesus whose name was transliterated said:

“I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word" John 17:6

"I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them" John 17:26

In the model prayer the first thing Jesus emphasized is the name of his father {Matthew 6:9} at a point in time because of the way those rebellious Jewish religious leaders were trying to hide God's name Jesus shouted:

"Father, glorify your name.”

And immediately a voice came out of heaven saying:

“I have glorified it and will glorify it again.” John 12:28

So if God made provisions for His divine name to be written over 7,000 times in His book but the faithless first century Jews doesn't want people to know God's name should we follow their thinking by substituting God's name with titles like "GOD" "LORD" or "FATHER" when we all know that this titles mean different persons out there?

Well Jesus used God's name in his time so we also use it because it's those calling the name of JEHOVAH that will be saved whether they're pronouncing it correctly or the transliteration! Joel 2:32 compare to Zephaniah 3:9 and Romans 10:13

Steep:
Jesus is speaking of pretenders who call him Lord with their lips but their heart is far from him.
Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Only those who love Jesus would keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. This love is from the holy ghost. Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. When a someone receive the saviour Jesus christ he becomes born again, a new heart is given to him, this is the heart that love God and hence loves to keep his commandments. This person begins to do good works which is the evidence of salvation. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In a nutshell salvation requires WORKS of FAITH!

Where you're confused is what Paul said about the WORKS of the LAW {Galatians 3:5} this means observance of the Mosaic laws thinking that's what will lead to salvation {Luke 18:21} but the WORKS of FAITH differ totally from that because you have to strive really hard to imitate Jesus completely in thought, words and actions {Matthew 17:5} this personality is really strange to imperfect human lifestyle {Ephesians 4:22-24} that's what makes it harder than observing the Mosaic laws so Jesus likens it to a struggle with our sinful flesh {Luke 13:24} so that makes it another kind of WORK entirely! James 2:18-26

Steep:
you still didn't answer my question, is a gift what you work for?

At least you make EFFORT to RECEIVE it even it's just a GIFT. Note that the one giving it out stipulated terms and conditions for recipients:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." John 3:16

So the recipient is required to DO something!

OLÓDO!

Appointing a sinner to do something doesn't nullify the fact that such a person is a sinner that's what David himself admitted! Psalms 51:5

Jesus never said babies are innocent but you can quote anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said so word for word!

bobestman:
@maximus your many twisting and lies is what will condemn you and your scamming and cultist organisation. You said i should argue with david cos he said he sinned from his mother's womb. These are words of the psalmist. But God said "before i formed you, i knew you and ordained you a priest..." He was made a priest from the womb. Meaning he was innocent, pure, sinless and not an enemy of God. These are words of God concerning babies not man's. Do you believe God or man? To crown it all, the messiah taught that babies are innocent and sinless and are many in kingdom of God. Now do you believe in the words of God and his son or that of man? You are a bloody liar.

Steep:
I believe in Jesus does not save that is because that person believe in the wrong Jesus.
For example who would put his complete trust on an angel like Jehovah witness organization? or a mere man like the muslims and a whole lot of other false religion teaches? Or someone who needed to be reached through another means like the catholic teaches? But the true Jesus who is both God and Man, who is all sufficient and whose word is yes and Amen, who came to save sinners freely, and whatever he does is perfect. The one who can save till the end and will lose non of those in his hand. Such a person could be trusted and his word believed 100%.

If you like change the subject but Jesus himself said not all those calling him Lord Lord will be saved except those DOING the will of his father! Matthew 7:21-23

If you don't grasp the verb DOING it connotes WORKING in anticipation of something!

lecowas:
Confession of this "belief" might not be sufficient in itself, but it's a good way to start.

That is the first step to work for salvation!

Steep:
you are funny,
Was the thieves salvation a gift or not a gift?
Besisde that you have not answered my question, where did you read that he said all that to earn salvation?

A gift is received by an appreciative recipient if there's no WORKS of FAITH then everyone supposed to receive the gift unconditionally!

Steep:
Do you know this fact? You who have put your faith in Jesus christ already have eternal life?
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The word BELIEVE connotes TRUST so if someone said "i believe Jesus" today that's not enough to save him!

WHY?

Believing Jesus according to God's word means acknowledging him as the Son of the most high God whose footsteps we must follow strictly {Hebrews 5:7} to please his father! Matthew 17:5

To enter God's Kingdom and live forever we must become holy {1Peter 1:16} for any imperfect human to meet up with this requirement Jesus is the role model we must copy in order to put on that new personality! Ephesians 4:22-24

So ordinarily saying "i believe in Jesus" can't save anyone! Matthew 7:21-23

Steep:
And where did you read the theif said those things in other to earn salvation? I am waiting

That thief said:

“Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

The one and only prophet foretold to die alongside criminals {Isaiah 53:12} is the Christ whose rulership will last forever {Isaiah 9:6-7} so that thief is reminding his cohort to think of what the prophets said about Christ since they both recognize Jesus as a powerful prophet of God who has saved many in the past but is now dying like a common criminal.

Each believer must preach this same thing about Jesus of Nazareth, that's the WORK of faith Jesus assigned to anyone who wants to be his disciple. Remember the other rich Jew who also believe in Jesus but his problem was to humbly become a disciple whose life doesn't depend on material possessions {Luke 18:18-23} do you think that man didn't believe in Jesus yet called him "Lord" ?
Of course he believed!
The only thing he couldn't do is throwing away everything he had and become a preacher for Jesus Christ. Well that's exactly what that thief has become on the day he was executed.
So immediately he declared Jesus as "King" who has a Kingdom Jesus had no option than to count him in as one of his disciples! Luke 23:22-23

bobestman:
But you guys claim to follow the messiah who is the word of God and came to fulfill it. He is also our example and taught everything we need to know. He taught that children are innocent and precious to God. He never condemn them or call them enemies. Do you follow him or david? You ppl run to the old law you claim is abolished when you need answers to continue in your ignorance. Go and argue with the messiah who said they are innocent. They have to reach a certain age to know what sin is and if they don't do the right thing, they are seen as sinners. The messiah or david who do you follow? Whether we or children become enemies of God when we have knowledge of what is evil and continue in it. We will be judged for the sins we commit not for what we have no knowledge of. Get understanding!

All humans are precious to God that's why He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sin! John 3:16
So whether you're a day old or 100 years of age the mercies of God covers you as long as the time of His vengeance hasn't come this has nothing to do with your age that's why Jesus said:

so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. Matthew 5:45

So from God's standpoint all humans old or young are innocent because we're all suffering for the error of Adam without being partakers of his blunder. Romans 5:12

Jesus mentioned children (toddlers) as fine examples for anyone who wants to enter God's Kingdom because there is no class or racism among them, they relate naturally as humans that's what he wants us to imitate in them but at the same time he warned about another trait of children that we need to avoid:

They only respond to food and sweet drinks whether there is wailing or rejoicing children don't bother as long as they're able to get their mates and start playing! Luke 7:31-32

So children has their good and bad side don't just conclude that they will be saved because if we're to go by your assertion then babies shouldn't have been destroyed in Noah's days, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho and Amalek!

MightySparrow:
Deut.6.4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Deut.6.5 - Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Deut.6.6 - And these words which I am commanding you this day shall be [first] in your [own] minds and hearts; [then] [AMP]

Write these commandments that I've given you today on your hearts. Get them inside of you [MSB]

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: [KJV]

These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. [NIV]

And you must commit yourselves wholeheartedly to these commands I am giving you today. [NLT]

"And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. [NKJV]


Deut.6.7 - Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Justify your claim of God' s enemity with God with your this scriptures.

It's not my scripture but God's word!

The babies will become God's friends only after they know and apply God's laws but if not they're like all others who were destroyed in Noah's days,Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho and Amalek: God's enemies!

Both of them BELIEVE in Jesus' ability to save but one was ready to OBEY Jesus as King that's why he started correcting his cohort to remind him of what the scriptures say about the Christ. According to God's word the Christ will rule as King so he's not just a powerful prophet as the first thief believe rather he is the Christ to whose authority every knee must bow. So voicing out in defending this dying man is a WORK of FAITH! Romans 10:10

Steep:
See how you are contradicting yourself, if the first theif did not think about the prophecies of Jesus how did you know say he believed in Jesus. Faith comes through hearing the word of God, obviously, the second theif knew that Jesus is the Son of God and can save him but the other doubted. the first theif had no repentance while the second theif had repentance. Reread ip again, I said faith and repentance are together. You can't have faith without repentance.
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

bobestman:
mumu always quoting bible to support blindness. How do you teach those who can't read or write? They are babies? What is their sin? Only sin can make one an enemy of God. They have no sin till they know evil.

Go and argue that with David! Psalms 51:5

bobestman:
The messiah came to fulfill the the law and we know his teachings on children. You only pick what suits your lies. Babies are not enemies of God but his own. Only sin makes you an enemy. They have none

David said they are sinners from their mother's womb so go and dispute it with David!

Steep:
Max stop adding to the word of God, The other theif didn't believe in Jesus, he mocked Jesus to save himself if Jesus is the Son of God.
Demons don't believe in Jesus, they know Jesus is the Son of God, they believe there is God, they have no part in God's salvation plan.
The other theif believe in Jesus as the messiah who has the power to forgive his sins and take him in into paradise. This is the gospel, Jesus has the power to forgive all sins freely.
The scrupture is clear, Isaiah said below
Isaiah 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
What is the money and price for the waters? Good works, Inother, words Isaiah is saying people who have no good works or anything could come and buy which is faith.

Please go back and read what transpired between the two thieves and Jesus because one raised the subject that he knew Jesus very well saving others which means he didn't just believe but knows Jesus has the power.
The only problem with that first thief is that he didn't think about what the prophecies said about the Christ. According to the prophecies the Christ will suffer and be executed along with criminals! Isaiah 53:12
That's what the second thief WORKED on and declared Jesus as King reminding his friend that Jesus committed no wrong meaning if this man has done no wrong and is been executed with them that shows he is the true Christ.
So both of them believe in Jesus' power but only one spoke with conviction that even if Jesus dies with them he is surely the Christ who is King of all those having faith in God!

Steep:
see max, You can't twist it, your salvation is at stake here. I have given you the verse, it is clearly written that Salvation is a gift, if you have to work for something then that thing can never be said to be a gift but a reward.
Works of faith are not works to earn Salvation but are works after Salvation. Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Guy both thieves BELIEVED in Jesus' ability to save them so how come only one was given a Visa to Paradise?

So it's the WORKS of FAITH and nothing more.
What you people think is that once you believe that Jesus can save you it's enough but demons also believe that only Jesus can save {James 2:19 compare to Luke 4:41} yet they're not saved. WHY?
Because they're not ready to follow the orders Jesus gave his disciples for salvation! John 15:4
That thief WORKED for his salvation by telling Jesus to remember him when the dying Jesus is enthroned. Ọmọ that's the greatest work of faith that Jesus himself has never seen before that time!
Because both Jesus and the thief are facing agonizing torture and about to die yet he is begging Jesus for his salvation. Surely if that man has the opportunity to go out there and preach nothing can stop him from proving that Jesus is the Christ.

That's what WORKS of FAITH entails not just believing without doing nothing! James 2:26

This is not what Christ COMMANDED his own disciples to keep doing, in fact this is mockery of the highest order!

JAHHHHHH:
That's my conclusion after observing them. Even most churches are something else these days, talk more of ministries. If you have experience with them or have tested them through wisdom... Then you will know I'm telling the truth.

You need to know the indepth meaning of that word "MINISTRY" because it's not about a church rather it's about each Christian.
If you're associating with God's people you must have your own personal ministry which shouldn't disturb your day to day struggle for a living! Act 18:3
So among true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) each of us have his or her own personal ministry, the organization only help us to stay focused on our ministry {2Timothy 4:5} and it's not like gathering gullible mugus to extort money from them claiming they must pay us tithes. Each believer must have his or her own personal ministry that's what being a disciple of Christ means!

JAHHHHHH:
The problem these days, is that real men of God are few. While the fake are many. And the ignorant christians are many, while wise ones are few.

All of us are men and women of God calling a human like yourself "man of God" means you're not ready to do God's will. So if you're truly a believer what stops you from being the man of God yourself?

bobestman:
stop being foolish and stupid. Stick to the question asked. You ppl will do evil and start looking for bible stories to justify your evil. Answer the question. The story has nothing to do with the question. Babies who have no sin are enemies of God. Jws have to teach them who can't read nor write or even know evil bf they become God's babies? FOOL.

You must be a dummy!

God destroys only the evil ones according to Abraham (the father of all those having faith) that's the point! Genesis 18:25
As for sin stop deceiving yourself David has cleared that when he said sinners becomes sinners right from their mother's womb! Psalms 51:5
So they've already sinned even as babies! Romans 3:23
That's why God ordered the Israelites to start teaching these little ones right from infancy so that they can become God's friends {Deuteronomy 6:4-7 compare to 2Timothy 3:15} this is not rocket science!

AgentNairaland:
As they arrived at April 4 for the remembrance of his dead is the same way they got Dec 25 for his birth with the help of Jewish calendar that is the 14th of Nisan (the day of crucifixion according to John) which is equivalent to March 25 in Roman solar calendar and from March 25 to December 25 is Nine months

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm thanks for the explanation but none of God's servants marked birthday and Jesus commanded us to mark (not the date of his birth) but the date of his death!

Steep:
If you work for something it is no more gift but reward.
However, the word of God contradicts you.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

You misunderstood Paul here!
Salvation is not without WORKS of FAITH! James 2:18-26

That thief WORKED for his salvation by voicing out as in preaching for Christ! Romans 10:10

Remember that both of them had faith in Jesus' ability to save but only one preached!

MightySparrow:
Psalms 127:3
[3]Lo, children are an enemies of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his
adversary.
_ JWs

Change of context won't save your face!

As God's image the life of all humans belongs to God so if you're privileged to become a caretaker know that the life of that little child is not your property it's God's.
That's the import of what you just quoted but as regards humans in general we have all sinned through Adam {Romans 3:23; 5:12} God hates sin so a sinner remains God's enemy even as a baby {Psalms 51:5} until you learn to become God's friend! Deuteronomy 6:4-7

YES, He worked for his salvation!

As a condemned criminal dying on the stake alongside Jesus he didn't know what to do but his cohort started mocking Jesus saying this guy had powers yet he couldn't save himself with them.
This thief stepped in right away, he spoke in Jesus' behalf and began preaching about Jesus Christ! Luke 23:40-41

That's just what Jesus taught his disciples to do in favorable or unfavorable season.

So my friend don't let anyone deceive you that thief WORKED for his salvation as the last thing he could do that's why Jesus granted the man's wish immediately he begged Jesus to count him in as a disciple who is now prepared to preach and teach about God's Kingdom which will be made possible through the selfless sacrifice Jesus offered on the torture stake! Luke 23:41-43

brocab:
Max you can't find Trinity written in bibles, I can't find Jehovah written in most bibles either.

Ọmọ JEHOVAH is in all Bibles just as Jesus is.

If you don't know go and ask your pastors the name "Jesus" wasn't written in the original Bible but the person lives his name was transliterated just as Jehovah but as for trinity it wasn't written anywhere nor transliterated at all!

sonmvayina:
What was the pass over lamb for?

Foreshadow the ultimate sacrifice Jesus will perform with his own life!
The Israelites are to kill the lamb and use its blood to rub their doorpost so that the angel of death may spare them.
The same will happen when God's Kingdom comes because all those who don't have the seal of Jesus' blood will be slaughtered globally!

AgentNairaland:
If Jesus wasn't born on December 25 according to the Bible as you claimed, is he crucified on April 4 according to the same Bible as you claimed earlier?

According to the Jewish calendar YES!
That date (Nisan 14) fell on the 4th of April this year!

jaephoenix:
Good. Does this president go about slaughtering his perceived enemies?

Ọmọ you can read nah!

I said it's only when they're disturbing others who are peaceful and obedient from enjoying the goodies He has for them!

jaephoenix:
You haven't answered my question about the Amalekites?

Amalekites dealt treasonously with Israelites so they deserve to die!

jaephoenix:
… yet he deemed them his enemies, and is intent on murdering all of them(according to you)

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa. They're His enemies as long as they're not doing His will that's why JWs are in their neighbourhood to settle the grudge between them and God.
As many as they're that accepted his decrees they will surely become not only His friends but children! John 1:11-12

jaephoenix:
Fanatic is a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
Its only you that have such zeal, not i

And what harm have i or any JW across the globe caused you?
Ọmọ you're the one disturbing your head with what never affected your daily bread!

JEHOVAH didn't create Satan rather it was the angel who choose to be a resister and slanderer. So they chose their own path He is not to blame for that! Deuteronomy 32:5

jaephoenix:
Really?
Who created Satan? Yahweh!
Did he know Satan was gonna be a great deceiver? Yes!
Who gave Satan his omnipotent, omniscient etc powers? Yahweh!
Who created Eden and the tree of knowledge and planted it right in the middle of the garden(not even at the outskirts where it would be out of sight of Adam and Eve) and made it have luscious fruits? Yahweh!
Do you now understand your all loving god wanted Adam fvcked from the get-go?
Here is an analogy. You(yahweh) sent your son(Adam) to school(garden of eden) and paid a bully(Satan) to distract and beat the child, so he'll fail in school? I used the word 'paid' because he Satan is an upgraded being, having those powers handed to him by Yahweh. Whats his target? A puny Adam, a regular mortal with no powers whatsoever

jaephoenix:
Can you explain the bolded, please

JEHOVAH will destroy all unbelievers so until His appointed time the unbelievers and their babies can exist!