₦airaland Forum

davidylan:
This is a very silly statement. Who branded you a son of the devil on this thread or on the many that you people have gatecrashed and ruined? The thread on the Bisi girl, was it in anyway referencing you as an unbeliever? Why did you go there and ruin it?

The rest of your verbose comments i wont dignify with a response.

I deleted my offensive post. . . . go and look it up. . . . christains all over naija brand people that do not believe in the hebrew god as sons of the devil. . . . and it extends to nairaland. . . so many people here have branded us as blind sons of the devil. . . . . go look it up. . . . . .

[quote author=$$Rhino link=topic=169807.msg2787295#msg2787295 date=1221156748]Nigeria would have gone worse or better still collapse, but i blv it is the prayer that has held it together.[/quote]how. . . . .any way you said you believe . . . that fact that you believe those not mean it is true. . . . vodoo worshippers believe in voodo that does'nt mean that they are right. . . . . .

davidylan:
why do threads like this always attract the very people who regard the bible as a myth? I think its about time a moderator was chosen so that we can discuss issues that pertain to the bible in peace, without beind derailed.

Why are these people conspicously absent from islamic threads?

Its high time the mods (who are always hyperactive when it comes to muslim threads) help us here. Enough of losing important threads to the antics of a few idiots. If they want an athiest section where they can bash christianity please help them create one . . .

They ruin doctrinal christian threads, they mangle threads put up to seek personal prayers for family members, they ruin threads for solemn praise and worship.

Am i the only one losing patience with these fools?

The only fools and idiots are you bible thumping christains. . . when people tell you that they don't believe in your hebrew god you brand them as sons of the devil and consider them to be no good, which non of you christains have ever seen, have you ever seen the devil?. .i have been called names here in naija just because i came out and decleared my non belief in the hebrew god. . . .   when we scrutinize and ask questions to that which you assert as the univrsal truth you end up calling us fools and idiots. .  why are you asserting things that you can't prove and provide evidence for to be the universal thruth? universal thruth should have universal explanation and universal evidence. . . when you are caught flat footed you resort to name calling. . .  go smoke dry shit abeg. . . . . . are muslims the people that wrote the noah's ark myth? or are they the ones that wrote all the killings and lootings that were carried out by the hebrew god and his prophets in the bible? christains are attacking muslims on nairaland too. . . . so deal with it. . .  extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence simple. . . . . .   

KunleOshob go watch banned from the bible you will understand why the book of Enoch was not included in the final cannon. . . . . .

Infighting between christains. . . . . . ride on we are watching. . . . .

manmustwac:
KunleOshob while your praying to your imaginary God to give you the answers to Huxleys questions can you please explain to me how Noah managed to 4 million species of animals into his Ark?

Those questions hard pass jamb questions ohh. . . kunleoshob can only run around them. . .

sorry the post has been removed. . . . . .

The republicans don't know how to govern but they sure know how to campaing. . .  they have now turn the campaing from the issues affecting americans to personalities .what has a hockey mum got to do with being an american president or vice president? the bible thrumping republicans(criminals) will never allow obama to win. . . how can the polls be closing when democrats have more registered members than the republicans? democrats are registering more new people than republicans yet the polls are closing? the republicans are just trying to steal the election, they know that it will be very easy to steal the elections once the polls are close, hence all the lies and distortions. . . . .  Cnn polling had obama leading with women while cbs polling had mccain leading. who are we to believe. . .  its all a hoax. . . . they are planning on stealing another election. . . .

I wish her all the best. . . . . . .

I thought you are both christains. . . . . delude generation. . . . . . .

[quote author=$$Rhino link=topic=170100.msg2786835#msg2786835 date=1221151156]Hahahaha, sorry i forgot to mention that i saw your name on the list of scientist around the globe.
There is no doubt about it, that some good things has come out of scientifical findings, and mind you, the brain that they uses in all they doing, has been giving to them by same God that created the universe, so once again, it is ludacris, and let me say this, be4 i seize to respond on this thread, if yuo evolve from apes and gorillas, i was created by He that knows the End be4 the starts.[/quote]The brian the same god gave the biblical writer to write the tower of bable and noah's ark that have been discredited? or the brian that the writers of mathew use when saying asserting that jesus said that stars will fall down from the sky on the last day? how will stars fall down from the sky? why will jesus make such a statement if he truly knows what stars are? stars are FAR bigger than the earth and will never fall down besides stars are not up in the sky but distant from the earth. . . . . . . Yet again, the Bible fails to improve upon a field of science when it moves into the New Testament. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all believed that the inabilities to speak and hear were the result of possessions by evil spirits (9:32, 9:17, and 11:14, respectively). This is an interesting and quiet creative hypothesis, but one we currently know is not true. The inability to speak is usually due to a physical abnormality in the region of the brain known as Broca’s area, while the inability to hear is typically due to physical trauma of the inner ear. If these regions don’t operate properly, the affected individual lacks the auditory and phonetic capacities made possible by a normal physiology.

Matthew also believes that blindness is a result of the devil’s inhabitance (12:22). Again, you don’t need the unverifiable nature of this wild claim explained to you. Damage to the optic nerve or detachment of the retina usually causes blindness. No devils or demons have ever demonstrated their involvement in this impairment. Luke purports that a woman’s crippled nature is also due to possession by a devil (13:11). While there are multitudes of unfortunate factors that can cripple a person, spiritual possession has never proven to be one of them. Luke and Matthew commit an additional medical error when they claim that devils cause seizures (9:39 and 17:15, respectively). Suffice to say, devils, demons, evil spirits, or any other fiendish creatures have never been known to cause seizures. These violent neurological events are the result of some physiological abnormality, such as a brain tumor, or an imbalance in electrical activity. When radical epilepsy manifestations are observed, however, it’s certainly understandable how a person with limited knowledge of human physiology could leap to the erroneous and fantastic conclusion that a demon might have possessed the individual in question. The Hebrew god once again fails to distinguish himself from the countless other ancient gods because his writers weren’t the least bit scientifically believable.

He can't even spell prayer correctly? Gosh, Gosh,

who is this small man? instead of talking about the issue of prayer and its effect you are just running . . . . . . .

the bottom line is this if prayer works nigeria will never be where it is at the moment because Nigeria is the most prayerful nation on earth that i know. . . . . . yet all its prayers have remained unanswered. . . . . . .

@KunleOshob
what are all this nonsense that you've posted here? do your assertions make sense to you. . . .  must you break your neck in trying to explain a fable and myth that was plagiarized from an ealier civilization?A little known but important piece of information about the Genesis flood is that the extremely similar Epic of Gilgamesh in the Sumerian legend predates Noah’s story by at least one thousand years in the written form and at least five hundred years for the setting. The similarities between the two tales are so remarkable that we cannot write them off in good conscience as mere coincidences. In the earlier flood legend, Utnapishtim receives instructions and exact dimensions on how to construct a large ship to avoid an imminent flood (as does Noah in Genesis 6:14-16), takes animals and his family aboard to preserve life on earth (as does Noah in Genesis 6:19-7:1), lands the ship on a mountain after the flood has stopped (as does Noah in Genesis 8:4), releases a dove and a raven from the ship in order to aid his search for dry land (as does Noah in Genesis 8:6-11), and burns a sacrifice after the flood for the gods who find its odor pleasing (as does Noah in Genesis 8:20-21). Because several additional minor parallels exist, I would encourage everyone to read Tablet XI of the short epic in its entirety in order to appreciate fully the similarities between the two legends. Since the Gilgamesh tale is the earlier version of the two, we can only surmise that the authors of Genesis copied the Epic of Gilgamesh or inadvertently patterned the story of Noah’s ark on an even more ancient flood legend that we have yet to discover.

      Records of flourishing civilizations in China, Egypt, Babylon, and Mesopotamia exist straight through the flood era of 2500-2000 BCE. This contingency creates a stack of obvious problems without planned solutions because the flood supposedly vanquished the inhabitants of these regions. If this was the case, why do we now possess their journals made before, during, and after this global deluge? The flood would have certainly destroyed these societal accounts if God were truly guilty of genocide. If people from each region somehow managed to survive and continue these records, why isn’t the cataclysmic flood mentioned in their accounts? In fact, no sort of catastrophe on this level exists anywhere in the written histories of any society during any era. On the other hand, records of ancient civilizations frequently mention several local floods. This is quite possibly the most compelling reason why many Christians have abandoned a global flood hypothesis in favor of a local one, a proposal rapidly gaining in popularity that has been debunk too. Had the authors known their descendants would one day be able to date these civilizations, the story most certainly would have been different from what we have today.

      Most people with a reasonable level of geographical education are aware of the existence of Mt. Everest, which has an apex well over five miles above sea level. In apparent contrast, the ancient Hebrews, as we discussed before, probably never ventured too far from their homeland and therefore knew of no such formation. If the textual description of the flood is assumed to be accurate, we know that this enormous mountain would have to be covered by fifteen cubits (about twenty-two feet) of water during the flood (Genesis 7:19-20). Had the authors been truly aware that there were mountains extending this far above sea level, they would have certainly altered the story again in order to bring the water requirement back to a somewhat more feasible level.

what the heck is suratul kafirun?  i know that the hadith is not part of the koran. . . . . . . i simply did not structure my statement well. . .  that does not negate the fact that the koran is a plagiarized version of the bible and its completely full of platitudes. . . . . .

olabowale pls stop deluding yourself the koran was plagiarized version of the bible without the hadiths so pls. . . . . .

manmustwac:
@post
why must we shout when we pray? is it because God dosen't answer our prayers? why? well maybe he's deaf too busy, he can't be bothered, or better still he dosen't exist. People shouting while praying is just a sign of the desperate hard times they are going through Praying may make you feel better but it will never solve your problems.

shekenan!

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169820.msg2783449#msg2783449 date=1221088237]She will get well soon and is being taken good care of. The poster called for a simple request, not ridicule and snide remarks. I hope we can all be sensible about that. Thank you. [/quote]hope she gets well soon. . . . .

pilgrim what are you driving at? pastors are the only ones that reference god when cheating people most of the times. . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169820.msg2783229#msg2783229 date=1221084960]She's in hospital - the original post said so. [/quote]he said western hospital lol, i wish her all the best and hopes that she recopurates soon. . . . . if prayer works whe wouldnt be in a hospital. . . . . she would be in a prayer house. . . . .

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your argument is untenable because you're looking at Nigeria and making claims from subjective point of reference, which is not the same thing as an established and concrete statement.

how the does prayer work? how is its effect measured?

I don't think it is wise to be so polarized as such. One cannot blame the results of prayer on indices of infant mortality - and if at all you want to hold that line of argument, you seem not to have carefully checked your facts, mazaje. A reminder:

Countries such as Sierra Leone and Angola are not as "prayerful" as you may assume for the case of Nigeria; but established sources put their infant mortality rate at far higher than that of Nigeria . . . please see the following quick references:

  http://www.aneki.com/mortality.html
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)

Besides, what strikes me is that people who sound as polarized as you do often want to blame every single problem you can fathom on the wrong indices. Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?

I said one of the countires with the the highest mortality rate, i never said it has the highest mortality rate. . . . the bottom line is that people pray for good health in nigeria and the positive result is yet to be seen. . .

Most Asians do not pray and yet suffer far more than you deplore the case for Nigeria.

The never believe in prayer and its powers. . . . .

Most atheists with all their wealth disposed have not been able to help the situation of suffering people - a most remarkable thing nobody talks about. While Christians will endeavour to reach difficult places with helpful resources, most of the atheists I know will simply curse away and do absolutely nothing in such instances. Atheism is not to be mistaken as the best alternative for wealth - I know a lot of very wealthy Christians who do not go about bragging about their wealth. Whether or not one is a theist or atheist, you point of reference is quite unfortunate - you place "money" as a reference index for prayer, and that is simply failure to make an effort to understand what prayer is really about

You think so . . . angelina jolie, warren buffet. . .  bill gates. . . . richard browson are all athiest that do alot of GOOD to poor people. . . .  how is my referance unfortuanate? nigeria is the most prayerful nation on earth that i know. . . . .  hence the reference. . . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169732.msg2783125#msg2783125 date=1221083273]Preachers are not the only ones who rape people.[/quote]they are the only ones who use god when decieveing people most of the time. . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169807.msg2782821#msg2782821 date=1221078926]@mazaje,

Thank you for your understanding. In addition to the point I was trying to make, I have seen instances where prayer actually helped in restoring the health of critically wounded people. Admittedly, I don't understand why it doesn't "work" for everyone who prays; but I'm confident that real cases have been recorded where healings took place following the prayers of people.

Many people quickly come to the conclusion that prayer "doesn't work", and the reasons are best known to them. It would be irrational indeed for me to argue against them especially because I don't know why they came to that conclusion. As well, it would be irrational for anyone to just come to the conclusion that prayer doesn't work or yield any results. Why? Because they do not know of every single case about prayers and praying people.

So, why is it that some prayers have not yielded results or been answered? I don't know exactly why, and I would not risk pretending that I know. However, I know one thing for a fact - prayer is dynamic and one cannot expect the same cloned response to follow every instance of prayer. The arguments that some people put forward sometimes sound really childish; because often is the case that they assume prayer to be something akin to automatons! That is so far from reality.

Prayer actually works. I have enjoyed praying - not only for my needs, but also for the needs of others - and yes, I have seen answers to most of my prayers. Every single instance? No. But the point is that prayer actually does "work".[/quote]I dont believe that prayer works. . . i still insist that if it does nigeria will never be where it is because nigeria is the MOST prayerful nation i have been to and i have been to so many countries. . . . . i have seen people pray for good health in nigeria but nigeria still has one of the highest infant and maternal mortalities in the world, most of the people in finnland and in europe do not pray but have better health than nigerians. . . i have seen so many people pray for money in nigeria. . . most of the european athiests have far more disposable income than the very prayerful nigerians. . . . . so many people pray to get admission into universities in nigeria without success, while the athiest europens do not pray at all but get admitted. . . . nigerians pray for peace but the country is quite precarious most especially the niger delta region. . . the athiest finnish people never pray for peace and the country is far more peaceful than nigeria. . . . so many nigerians pray for journey mercies when embarking on journeys but nigeria still holds the record as one of the countries with the highest rate of road accidents besides the armed robbers . . . .prayer does'nt give money. . . . hard work and luck does. . . it doesnt give good health. . . healthy living does. . . . and it never provides peace. . . .human behaviour and activities does. . . . i repeat if prayer works nigeria will NEVER be where it is today because Nigeria is the MOST prayerful nation i know. . . most of the countries i have visited are european countries and are all athiest countries who never pray and the people and the countries are FAR better than nigeria and nigerians in everything. . . .

stop talking about the koran it's a plagarized version of the bible. . . . . . . . it completely lacks credibility and is full of platitudes when it comes to history and stories. . . apart from the hadith i dont see any originality in it. . . all its stories were stolen from the bible. . . . . even the biblical stoies were stolen from the torah(jewish holy book). . . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169732.msg2782956#msg2782956 date=1221080686]Anybody can make just about any claim - it doesn't have to be preachers. There are fraudsters in every walk of life, and to be polarized against a certain group of people doesn't substantiate your "evidentiary" grievances. [/quote]Preachers are the only people that claim they are from god. . . . . .

Let’s begin by looking at this highly questionable account from a common sense point of view. Within the story, we have a god who has to modify virtually all of his creations for the solely expressed reason of the people having become wicked and evil (Genesis 6:5), yet wicked and evil people continue to exist throughout the Bible. Right off the bat, the foundation for the story fails to make sense. Why would an omniscient god have to destroy all of his work for a specific quality that he knew would continue to exist even unto this very day? The flood was for naught, yet God carried out his horrific genocide anyway. I find this to be the most disturbing and perhaps the most ridiculous premise ever conjured by the human mind.

      The author clearly tells the story from the perspective that God had just recently realized the way the world had become. This, too, fails to make sense because biblical authors repeatedly claim that God is omniscient. By definition, his omniscience requires him to have known at the time of Adam and Eve that he would later desire to start from scratch at Noah. This unnecessary and foreseeable correction is hardly the logical course of action for an omnipotent god to take. If you let your inhibitions loose, however, it should be painfully obvious that the original authors of Genesis didn’t consider these salient points as they were writing. One might even ask if they bothered to proofread their work. Such casual observations work well against the hypothesis of an all-knowing god, a consideration we’ll revisit repeatedly. At this point in our study, one must already concede that God is not omniscient, God behaves in an acutely illogical manner, or the flood simply never took place for the reasons provided by the Bible.

      Appallingly, God drowned unborn children in the flood. This indisputably necessary consequence of his actions should ironically put a huge kink in the pro-life arguments from the church. God aborts countless unborn children for the questionable sins of their parents, yet the church expects society not to do the same? Infants and young children who do not possess the intellectual capacity to tell right from wrong were also casualties of the flood! How could they be among the wicked and evil? These are hardly the actions of the loving God depicted in the New Testament. The innocent children didn’t deserve the fate God inexcusably dealt them, end of story. Helpless animals also suffered the horrible fate of the children. However, given the apparently twisted love that God has for smells from animal sacrifices (Genesis 8:20-21), that last point shouldn’t have been very surprising to someone familiar with the Bible.

      No one has ever found the enormous ark even though we know its final resting place is among the mountains of Ararat located around present-day Turkey (Genesis 8:4). All evidence presented as proof of the ark’s discovery has been admitted to be a hoax, proven a hoax, or withheld from testing. Although one could reasonably anticipate that someone would have discovered a tangible piece of evidence from the craft if it hasn’t decomposed, multiple expeditions have turned up absolutely nothing. While many people claim they have evidence for the ark being conveniently underground, no one has ventured to exhume it from the earth.Genesis, the only known source of Noah’s story, has several hundred additional problems in need of answers before we can consider it a reliable historical source. No known individuals recorded this particular version of the global flood myth until nearly 2000 years after the floodwaters vanished. Since oral accounts of an event can obviously undergo drastic changes even over a few generations, there’s really no telling how much alteration the story incorporated before existing in its present form. In short, as we have seen and will continue to see, the book of Genesis is not a reliable source of historical information by any stretch of the imagination.

samcin:
Why not let's leave the issue of healin or bleedind or accident out of this? have you ever asked yourself how you come to existance?, it is from the power in the WORD which is prayer, jus a simple let there be,

There is power in the word of our mouth and whatsoever we say or at times think has the power of coming to fufilment

I don't know how i came into existance but i know i did'nt not come into existance by the word? by the way which of the words? hebrew word?. . .  why not arabic?. . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169807.msg2782507#msg2782507 date=1221074833]That's all well and good. But first is not all there is to the "rational" idea of healing a person. There are some incidents that involve serious bleeding - and we know that first aid simply won't do the job. How have you helped such cases?[/quote]ohh i kind of get where you are driving at. . .  personally what i do is apply first aid. . . then call an ambulance if the bleeding persist. . . . . but in places like nigeria where all these things are non exsistent prayer seems sensible. . . . . because that is the only thing they can do in such conditions but that doesnt mean that the prayers work because if it does nigerians wont be where they are today. . . . . .

rubi:
Believe it or leave it prayer changes things/situation

Nigeria is the only country that i have been to where people pray before they eat. .  . . . it still remain the worst country i have ever been too. . . . .  if pray changes things at least nigeria and nigerians wont be where they are. . . . . .  that's just an example. . . . . .  why do moslem's and christains go to hospitals if prayers work?. . . . .  why are the atheist european nations doing better than the religious african countries that pray day and night?. . . . . . has prayer change nigeria? has prayer alone ever made and sick person you know well. . . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=169807.msg2782435#msg2782435 date=1221073983]How have you been able to save such a person? It is easy to sit on the fence and query just about everything. No worries, but how have "rationalism" help those who are desperately in need?[/quote]i can save a bleeding person by applying first aid on the person. . . .  rationalism has helped those in need by showing them that they need to apply first aid to a bleeding person instead of praying for him. . . .

KunleOshob:
@chrisbenegor
I read all your theories about the ark and you seem to have a point, i would accept your theory when you tell me exaclty how the great pyramid of Giza was built by the ancient egytians. let me give you a little background on it. The great pyramid of Giza is the oldest and biggest pyramid in Egypt and the design and structure is far more complex and advanced than the pyramids built thousands of years after it. Over two million stones weighing an average of 3 tonnes were used in it's construction and it is thirty times the size of empir state building. Engineers have been unsable to understand or replicate how this structure was constructed ( even in this mordern times) I am sure if the pyramid was not still standing and you read about such a magnificent structure only in history books you would have written it off as a myth. My point being, the fat that you cannot understand something doesn't make it a myth. That aside scientist have discovered evidence of a global flood around the time of Noah. That is apart from the fact that the ark as been found somewhere in mordern day turkey which was the area the ark berthed in after the flood.

Link pls. . . . . stop spreading lies. . . . . scientist have never discovered any evidence of a global flood besides the whole noah's ark myth was plagarised from an earlier civilization. . . . . .

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=168700.msg2782351#msg2782351 date=1221073063]pilgrim 1. Why are you wasting your time with Olabowale. He is a master deceiver, and I know this first hand. I ignore him, because silence is the best answer for a[b] fool[/b].[/quote]why is he a fool? is it because he disagrees with your faith?

rubi:
It depends on your mood and the burden. Even the bible said that Jesus prayed and the sweat that came out from his body was like blood which means the burden is too much for him. Prayers has level when one is praying our lords prayer and when one is interceding for someone that had fatal accident to survive and blood is rushing no one will tell you to change the to be loud or not. In a nut shell it depends on the prayer point.

has paryer ever saved some one that is bleeding to death? why then do we have first aid being thaught in schools if prayers can do the magic?. . . . prayers never solve anything. . . .  if it does then no one will die on the nigerian highways. . . . because it is one of highways that sends the highest amount of prayers in the world i believe and yet it is still one of the highways with the highest death occurance and accidents. . . . . if prayers works then nigerians and africans will never be where they are simple. . . . they pray day and night for basic necessities of life yet they still remain poor with out the basic necessities. . . . . . .