₦airaland Forum

The Sly:
I do not agree with these.
If he knew, He wouldn't have created man at all.


Genesis 6:5: The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Genesis 6:6: The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

His heart wouldn't have been filled with pain if he knew that ''man'' would sin.

Genesis 6:7 : So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.

So A-K-O was right!!

clearly god did not know that man will sin , hence he is not all knowing. . . . . . enough of all these meme that god is all knowing. . . .

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=172298.msg2817184#msg2817184 date=1221690283]1) They didn't ask for forgiveness, they didn't even accept responsibility for their actions, they both shifted blame. Eve shifted blame to Adam, and Adam to the devil.
2) Even when someone accepts the wrong doing they still make it right. If someone murders a person, the victim's family can forgive, but that doesn't mean the murderer shouldn't go to jail or pay the price for the sin or wrong doing.[/quote]why do you guys always you human actions to explain or justify the actions of your all powerful, all knowing god, yet on the other hand you say ordinary people can never understand him, why use ordinary human ways of doing things to explain your god but turn around and claim that people have to have some spiritual element of understanding before the can understand your god? you just cant have it both ways.

did god know that Adam and eve will eat the apple?

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=172298.msg2816852#msg2816852 date=1221683836]God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that[b] until he sinned[/b], God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.[/quote]why did'nt god just forgive him then? why does he forgive people now and refused to forgive adam then? does it make any sense to you?. . . . .

davidylan:
Just why a non-christian feels he must enter the christian heaven is beyond me.

because heaven exists only in your imaginations. . . .

Hello economy, goodbye lips stick politics. . . . . .

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=163349.msg2807606#msg2807606 date=1221549387]@mazaje,

Try not to get over-reactive. God did not condemn the children of Ishmael. The text referred to in Rom. 9:7 already stated that it was "in Isaac" that the seed would be called - which has already been stated in Genesis 21:12 (- "for in Isaac shall thy seed be called". The calling there relates to God's covenant with that lineage through whom salvation would come to every nation through Jesus Christ.

As to the issue of conscience and freewill, the same epistle of Romans has already addressed it and stated clearly that we are all responsible and accountable for our choices (see Romans 2:15 on the effect of our consciences). To this end, many people who have not taken the time to carefully study the texts become very reactive and ask the question as to the fate of those who lived before Jesus Christ was born. It's a good question, and one that is also addressed in Romans 2:5-16. In that passage, verses 7 and 8 simplifies the divide - there are those who (a) patiently continue to seek good and will be rewarded accordingly; and those who are (b) are contentious and do not obey the truth - a choice to be rebellious.

The issue as to being called is open to all: people who respond to that call by receiving the grace of salvation in Jesus Christ are known as God's children; whereas those who make a choice to reject that offer of grace have chosen to disqualify themselves from becoming God's children. It is clear that God did not make anyone expressly for what is being alleged as in your inference. Rather, as is clearly demonstrated in humanity even today, there are people who deliberately make a choice to be rebellious against God, as much as there are those who are humble enough to receive His offer of grace.[/quote]pilgrim. . . what are you saying?. . . . you are just speaking english. . . . .

davidylan:
I'm glad you quickly corrected him, you're not a child of God but a slave of allah.

I stumbled on this while studying last night - Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of Ishmael are categorically[b] DENIED any place as children of God.[/b]

How ironic, they didnt choose to be children of i'shmael did they? if god knew that after creating ishmael he will have to desert and condemn his children then why did he create him in the first place? why does the biblical god love afflicting innocent children(generations) with the sins of their parents? what have the children of ishmael got to do with the choice their father made? by the way what did ishmael do wrong in the bible to deserve such course from a supposedly merciful, forgiving and just god? rational and civilized human beings do not punish people for the sins of their parents, why should a merciful, all knowing and a just god do that? Allah does the same to people too i believe, why do you worship sadistic creatures yet as a christain you are quick to talk about choice and free will, according to your statement the children of ishmael have no choice and free will because they have been condemmed already. . . . christains go around bandying the lies about their god being a loving father, a merciful being when the bible proves him to be a monster. . . . . hitlers laws are far better than some of the hebrew gods laws in the old testament. . . . . . .  musulini will never do some of the things the hebrew god of the old testament did to little kids for just being kids. . . . . . .

Chrisbenogor:
@Mad_Max
well after all that's said and done, is your friend any better now. I would suggest though that he start from the very begining and examine if he really believes that God exits because I think his trouble is reconcilling his idea of who most religions say God is. So the journey should start from there. Does God exist?

which of the gods?. . . . .

simmy:
to be honest sha, religion produces fanaticsm. fanatics are people who blindly and stupidly follow rules without an iota of initiative. American evangelicals tend to make me sick with their narrowmindedness, but again maybe its 4 their good, its better to be safe than sorry. but seriously. we have here a Christian female adult teaching kids like she s teaching grown up men.

What the hell do these kids care about an army and living a life of purity? and 7 year olds they don't even know enough to know about girls yet!

kids at that age should be exposed to theology on their level. they should still be learning bible stories and general morals to make them well balanced adults, not speaking in tongues and laying hands and all.
You re just confusing these kids. and then scaring them with hell you know how imaginative kids can be and you go on and on about sin and how they ll roast in hell excpet they repent. Modern day Xtians present God like He is some saddist or something.

I mean seriously, these are kids who should be out camping or playing ball or monkeyiong around like kids should and u have them locked up in a camp speaking in tongues and crying and b eing emotional!!!
i'm not saying God or the Holy Spirit can't work through kids but let God approach the kid himself or better still let the kid himslef show special interest in such matters. don't uneccesarilly prod kids into such unkidlike things.
Chrisitianity should be presented to kids in a funlike manner. good stories from the bible with a strong moral basis, not all that serious repenting crap for kids barely old enough tp tie their own shoelaces, using words like radical, on fire, ARMY, WARFARE, break things in the heavenly, POWER OF THE ENEMY,etc.

the more i watched , the sicker i got
RIGHTOUS GOVERNMEMT WTF Breaking cups??
some Xtians should be totured to death, burdening kids with inaities and crap they shouldnt be burdend with until theyre emotionally mature to handle such stuff. you have kids crying over what they don't even half understand.
This service would have been ok and maybe even apt for an adult audience. i have nothing against teaching people about christ and being an agent of change in the society and all,,, but come on, CHILDREN its sickening! Xtians can be really stupid and overtly emotional.

the hebrew god is indeed a dangerous sadist, read the old testament and you will confirm that he is really a sadist. . . . by the way they all got their inspiration from the bible so they are not to blame. . . fanatics(christains/moslem alike) all get their inspirations from their holy books. . . . . .

bawomolo:
aren't the abrahamaic God's the same. the yahweh, allah, jehovah they talk about is supposed to be same entity.

they are not? read their books. . . . . . .

davidylan:
which is essentially 2 things:
1. Nothing
2. Tired old repetition of the same debunked claims we've heard for the last 200yrs.

Depends on who's defining "perfection". I don't think you're unbiased enough to do so.

What is the relevance of that question 5000yrs after? Which is your point? That the people of those days had no choice? how does that affect you?

what happened 5000 years ago is still important when dealing with a diety that made all the laws at that time. . . the never changing and all perfect god made all those babaric laws not men hence its relevance . . . . for example. . . . God will kill children and unborn fetuses because their parents worship other gods (Hosea 13:16).God will force fathers and sons to eat each other and scatter their remembrance (Ezekiel 5:10
God will kill men, have their children smashed, and have their wives raped (Isaiah 13:15-16). even the men at that time i believe were disgusted by such a god for making such laws, men would hane made better and more tolerating laws. . . . why was he so unforgiven, vindictive ,belligerant and so wicked. . . . . men never made most of the old testament laws god did, why where his laws so outright mean and wicked. . . . .why was he so quick to anger and destruction? why did he punish people for the sins of their parents? sins they never commited?. . . . . . it only points out to the fact that men created god at that time and now created a new one to fit the new way of life and understanding of the world. . . . .

. . . in short, God does not exist. On what basis then are you even on this thread?

To reiteraite what i have been saying all along.

I'm sure the definition of "perfect" is not exclusively yours. What is "perfect" to you may not be to your neighbour.

The hebrew god said he is perfect but has done very imperfect things as far as i am concerned. . . . . .

God is the same yesterday, today and forever . . . unfortunately man isnt. That is the reason what happened 5000 years ago isnt applicable today. Unlike the jews of yesteryears . . . we now have a secular government that actively strives to separate church and state. Long long ago church was the state.

what happened 5000 years ago is still important when dealing with a diety that made all the laws at that time. . .  the never changing and all perfect god made all those babaric laws not men hence its relevance . . . . for example. . . . God will kill children and unborn fetuses because their parents worship other gods (Hosea 13:16).God will force fathers and sons to eat each other and scatter their remembrance (Ezekiel 5:10
God will kill men, have their children smashed, and have their wives raped (Isaiah 13:15-16).  even the men at that time i believe were disgusted by such a god for making such laws. . . . why was he so unforgiven, vindictive ,belligerant and so wicked. . . . . men never made most of the old testament laws god did, why where his laws so outright mean and wicked. . . . .why was he so quick to anger and destruction? why did he punish people for the sins of their parents? sins they never commited?  why didnt he give his followers the choice the people like the one people have today. . . . ?

davidylan:
Rise above your petty dogmatism . . . it clouds your ability to understand the issues others pass across. That (in bold) was not the issue, rather it was simply meant to create another way by which to view Chrisbenogor's statement: why would a perfect being have imperfect creations?

I ask then . . . why would perfectly responsible parents raise a child who turns out a drug addict?

The answer to both questions is - the power of choice!

- To your tired, over-used and irrelevant claim that there was no choice in the old testament . . . again your ability to understand it is based on your own willingness to see opposing opinion.

In the old testament days . . . religion = politics hence religious laws would automatically be quite similar to our secular laws of today. Modern day laws say a rapist can face the death sentence, how was that different to the laws of 4000yrs ago where idolaters (disobedience to the law) could face the death sentence? It is unfortunate that in your beclouded state you constantly seek to judge 4000 yr old states by values of today. Sickeningly absurd.

As regards talking about choice . . . it is more than RELEVANT today. Forget about what happened 5000 years ago, it is frankly a misused smokescreen . . . you have a choice TODAY . . . to ignore God and stop bothering about religious threads or to face the truth of salvation.

why are you always using human activities to justify the actions of your god? i said men created god/gods in their own image simple. . . .  the men of 4000 years ago created god in their own image so are the men of today. . . . . the hebrew god said he is perfect. do you know what it means to be perfect? the hebrew god said he is all knowing but his actions in the bible are all to the contarary. . . . . the only thing that is absurd is the 100 You turn the hebrew god made from the old testament to the new teatament. . . .  why did the hebrew god change and grow with humanity. . . . ? he is suppsoed to be perfect isnt he? thats why i think allah has some guts he said his revelations in the koran were final and needs no innovation and most moslems try to adhere to his laws as was written in the koran. . . the bible said that the hebrew god is the same yesterday, today and forever. . . . why did he order the death and destruction of his enemies in the oldtestament and not now? why did he change. . .  the bible says he never repents and he never changes why the change from an all perfect being. . . . . by the way why was religion=politics in the old testament and not now? your answers make no sense to me i must say. . . . . by the way what happened 5000 years ago is still relevant when we are discussiing about a diety that is supposed to be the same today, yesterday and for ever. . .

bindex:
AKO what if you die and then you realize that allah is the god?

he will then be thrown into hell. . . . . .

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=171097.msg2798173#msg2798173 date=1221339518]This changes nothing.

The fool still says in his heart that there is no God.

And the stick man(in this video) still ends up in hell.

It's supposed to be a satire but it only brings out the harsh reality.[/quote]how do you know it is real? have you ever been there?

davidylan:
Why would a perfectly responsible parent have kids into drugs?
Simply because the creator has chosen to allow his creations the right of choice to make their own decisions . . . whether right or wrong.

your analogy falls flat because no parent has ever claimed to be all knowing, all powerful and all merciful. . . no child prays to his parents for protection from diseases, and all types of dangers, but people pray to their god for such things. . . . and no parent has ever claimed to be perfect. . . . . There was no choice in the old testament its either you obey the laws and commandments of the hebrew god or you he kills you if he does'nt he sends his prophets or wild animals to do the job for him. . . . so stop talking about choice. . .

davidylan:
and i'm the one with self esteem issues? Talk indeed is cheap.

sure it is. . . . . .

davidylan:
Hahaha ever quick to use adhominems eh?

yes. . . . . . . just like you. . . . . .

the only person with self esteeem issues is you. . . . . . go suck a dicck. . . . . .

definately not the fanatic davidylan. . . . . . . that talks down on people and takes offence when people disagree with him. . . . . . .

davidylan:
That's foolish for the following reasons:
1. You did not indicate that you "deliberately" made the confusion to goad me into responding (because you werent even sure i would spot it.

2. You didnt indicate you made an error even though i mentioned the contradictions at least TWICE on that thread yesterday.

3. When i make claims about contradictions or not its because i take my time to read through your argument carefully. Its the reason i have been able to spot outright lies in your posts.

- this isnt the first time you're running into such a brickwall.

Why are you quick to call people fools because they disagree with you? the only BIG FOOL here is you. . . . .

Shifting topics, let’s tackle the various animal problems and the question even the most rigid believer has asked at one time or another: “How did Noah get all those animals to fit on the ark?” An appropriate sequential analysis should begin with the problems Noah would have faced years before the ark ever left the ground. This recently appointed shipbuilder would have had extreme difficulty in gathering some of the more dangerous and sizable animals, such as tigers and elephants; and without falling back on divine intervention once again, the apologist can’t justify a reason why these animals would readily decide to return with Noah to the construction zone. Thus, there’s no good way to determine exactly how long it would have taken to trap and transport all the necessary animals in order to comply with God’s orders. Noah would have also been required to know, collect, and preserve the food for special diets required by certain animals. While many finicky species, such as the koala, can survive for short periods away from their primary sources of nutrition, the choice to forego these considerations compounds the great risk of killing such animals already traumatized by the drastic relocation.

As we all know, many animal species are indigenous only to certain regions of the globe. There would have been no rational means by which Noah could have traveled to Australia to catch two koalas, North America to trap two grizzly bears, Antarctica to kidnap two penguins, etc. Even if we allow a miraculous way for Noah to journey to these remote regions, we’re still looking at that enormous amount of time to venture across the earth for the sole purpose of preserving an insignificant percentage of animals that God could have easily recreated after the flood. As Noah and his family are already pressed for time with the ark’s assembly, successful completion of such a futile journey seems exceedingly unattainable.

As a consequence of their forced relocation, the overwhelming majority of the animals wouldn’t have survived in the near-desert region of Mesopotamia due to the extreme climate. For example, many cave dwelling animals require 100% humidity to survive. Such animals couldn’t have lived through months of turmoil on the boat, much less a week’s stay in the desert. Additionally, many animals require residency on an island due to their nature of being easy prey. Mainland creatures would have quickly driven them to extinction due to competition among the different species during the time prior to the flood. These considerable animal anomalies were, once again, unknown to the ancient authors.

In the last area you’d anticipate having problems, the thoughtless God only provided Noah with a seven day warning to load the ark (Genesis 7:4). This designated period wouldn’t have been sufficient to secure even a few thousand animals onboard even when working around the clock. However, this task would have been relatively easy to accomplish if Noah was only boarding the handful of animals known to the flood story’s original audience.

We also understand that God advised Noah to take a male and a female of each kind onto the ship (Genesis 7:2). An unconditional problem with this divine order is the presence of asexual and hermaphroditic species. Because variant asexual species reproduce without a sexual partner, there’s no male or female distinction of which to speak. As for the hermaphrodites, they simultaneously exhibit qualities of being both male and female. These two anomalous creature classifications have no distinct male and female members, thus Noah couldn’t have gathered a male and female member of the kind as instructed by God unless we alter the clear meaning of the text.

One should also realistically expect at least a scant amount of geological or natural evidence for a global flood if the supernatural catastrophe took place, but the signs overwhelmingly point to the contrary. The flood should have created a massive extinction along the floors of the oceans. Likewise, millions of land organisms that would have certainly been victimized by the flood would also have deposited a large layer of terrestrial fossils. Of course, neither one of these evidential necessities is apparent.

Miles of coral reef, hundreds of feet thick, still survive intact at the Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific Ocean. The violent flood would have certainly destroyed these formations, yet the rate of deposit tells us that the reefs have survived for over 100,000 undisturbed years. Similarly, the floodwaters, not to mention the other factors leading to a boiling sea, would have obviously melted the polar ice caps. However, ice layers in Greenland and Antarctica date back at least 40,000 years.

Impact craters from pre-historical asteroid strikes still exist even though the tumultuous floodwaters would have completely eroded them. If these craters were formed concurrently with the flood, as it has been irresponsibly suggested, the magnificent heat from the massive impacts would have immediately boiled large quantities of the ocean, as if it wasn’t hot enough already. Like the asteroid craters, global mountain ranges would exhibit uniform erosion as a result of a global flood. Unsurprisingly, we witness just the opposite in neighboring pairs of greatly contrasting examples, such as the Rockies and Appalachians.

Even if we erroneously assume there to be enough water under the earth’s surface in order to satisfy the required flood levels, the size of the openings necessary to permit passage for a sufficient amount of water would be large enough to destroy the cohesive properties of the earth’s crust. However, the outer layer is firmly intact, and there’s no evidence indicating that it ever collapsed. All this hypothetical escaping water would have greatly eroded the sides of the deep ocean fissures as well, but no such observable evidence exists for this phenomenon either.

Cayon:
Then why i am wasting my precious time with you. stuuuuupes

thats a typical response you get from a christain when you tell them that you dont believe in god. . . . you can't have it both ways. . . . . christains expect us to respect their beliefs but they are quick to look down or disparage the athiest for their own beliefs. . . .wasting your time you say. . . that is the typical response you get from christains when you tell them you dont believe in any god/gods. . . . and when we challenge their faith they get angry. . .

davidylan:
[b]Just the same way rape of a minor can get you a death sentence, so was it 4000 years ago.[/b]The law was simple - idol worship was punnishable by death.

Deal with it.

What happened to your thread on the sexuality of Jesus by the way? You've been caught in a lie (as usual) and have now decided to abandon it?

why has that babaric law changed? there is no similarity between idol worship and raping a minor. . . . what about the issue of free will. . . . why is salvation now optional and why was it by force before, . . . . . . why do you attack moslems when they say that an apostate deserves to die? why did god change his mind if he truly knows all things? how can a god that is perfect and knows all things change his mind and laws? an all knowing god can never and will never change his mind, if he does then he is not all knowing. . . .

davidylan:
that is not the real truth. It is not the fear of being dragged back to the days of Elijah . . . infact that is virtually impossible with Christianity.
In the old testament there was no salvation except by the blood of bulls and goats, now we have salvation through the blood of Jesus. The only way to drag you back to Elijah times is to de-crucify Jesus.

The real truth is this - you have a conscience problem with God. All this noise making is a way to wish it away or at worst force everyone else to see things your own way. Its strange because that is the very accusation you all levy against the christian.

moslems have a god don't they? what about voodo worshipers? they too have a god don't they? but does that make their worship right in the eyes of christains? your argument falls falt here. . . . . . . the christain god has moved with humanity thank goodness else this world would have been a terrible place. . . . .

Chrisbenogor:
Dayweed is worried people are catching up on the lies.
So here he is playing daddy trying to force his ganja doctrines down everyone's throat. Rubbish

daddy dayweed. . . . .  daybid. . . . .

You are just like Reuben, unstable as water, fickle, like the chaff that the wind driveth away so are you. You will kiss up to anyone; athiest or muslim as long as they say what you want to hear.

Madam, i don't give 2 shakes of a ducks tail what anyone has to say . . . i notice one thing, those who are virulently anti-David are divided into 3 camps:

- the muslim
- the athiest like Chrisbenogor who think everyone shld pander to their every whim.
- wishy-washy, unstable empty sepulchres like you who decieve themselves that they also worship Christ.

Sorry miss, like i said earlier to chrisbenogor . . . put up with constantly having your anti biblical chaff exposed or quit.
insult me till tomorrow, its water off a ducks back.

And for those ignorant folks who like to ask . . . is that Christ-like behaviour, i have but one verse for you - Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

davidylan:
We claim the bible as the word of God and as the ONLY TRUTH. No apologies for that believe . . . however you have the freedom to hold such as a myth.
You don't have the right to question such claims (that is bogus nonsense) . . . its just like you demanding you have a right to question my claim that i am Nigerian . . . it is none of your business. If you don't want to believe fine, no where are you forced to.

I will and do stand up for the gospel ONLY when it is wise to do so. I don't cast pearls before swine.

It is my business that's why nigerian have an international passport as proof or evidebnce to show that they are nigerians. . . . your illustration is very tenuous. . . i still say that people were forced to believe in christainity before else they die. . . . in the old testament and when christainity became the roman religion so many unbelievers died for their unbelief. . . . why has that changed now?. . . . .  you still attack allah and his prophet when you feel it is necessary . . . .  so why are you whining when people question that which you assert to be the only truth?

i wonder if this story would been treated the same way if it had happened to one of obama's daughters. . . i hate the republicans!

Afam:
From my inbox, interesting piece.

I hope accurate, factual and truthful information is made available all the time to all so that people cannot just claim they were misinformed when they take actions that may cost lives like Bush is doing even though in his own case he is lying well well sha.

++++++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ ++++++
************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ***
Editor's Note:

Every now and then a new organization springs up and
about 4 years ago, this one did. Far away from the media
spotlight, they have become an impressive voice for
Justice. I hope you check them out.
************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ***

If Americans Knew - Mission Statement

In a democracy, the ultimate responsibility for a
nation's actions rests with its citizens. The top
rung of government – the entity with the ultimate
power of governance – is the asserted will of the
people. Therefore, in any democracy, it is essential
that its citizens be fully and accurately informed.

In the United States, currently the most powerful
nation on earth, it is even more essential that its
citizens receive complete and undistorted information
on topics of importance, so that they may wield their
extraordinary power with wisdom and intelligence.

Unfortunately, such information is not always forthcoming.

The mission of If Americans Knew is to inform and educate
the American public on issues of major significance that
are unreported, underreported, or misreported in the
American media.

It is our belief that when Americans know the facts on a
subject, they will, in the final analysis, act in
accordance with morality, justice, and the best interests
of their nation, and of the world. With insufficient
information, or distorted information, they may do the
precise opposite.

It is the mission of If Americans Knew to ensure that
this does not happen – that the information on which
Americans base their actions is complete, accurate, and
undistorted by conscious or unconscious bias, by lies of
either commission or omission, or by pressures exerted
by powerful special interest groups. It is our goal to
supply the information essential to those responsible
for the actions of the strongest nation on earth – the
American people.


Action Focus #1

Israel is the largest recipient of US. aid in the entire
world. It receives more aid than that given to all the
countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the
Caribbean, put together.

Israel receives over $10 million dollars per day from the
United States, and there is evidence that the total figure
is closer to $15 million a day. Yet this information is
almost never printed in American newspapers. Coverage of
the Middle East in general, and of Israel in particular,
virtually never reports this enormous American connection
with this region.

Empowered by American money, Israel is occupying land that
does not belong to it, is breaking numerous international
laws and conventions of which it is a signatory, and is
promulgating policies of brutality that have been condemned
by the United Nations, the European Union, the National
Council of Churches, Amnesty International, the
International Red Cross, and numerous other international
bodies. This truth is also rarely reported.

Through the money and weaponry provided by the United
States, Israel is imposing an ethnically discriminatory
nation on land that was previously multicultural. There
is ethnic and religious discrimination inherent in its
national identity, and a doctrine of the supremacy of
one group over all others permeates its political,
financial, and military policies. This also is virtually
never reported.

There are a variety of organizations and individuals in
Israel who are protesting their government's policies,
and who are working strenuously and courageously on behalf
of human rights and justice. It is their intent to create
a just and fair nation with equal rights for all its
citizens. They are refusing to serve in the military
occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and are actively
trying to prevent Palestinian homes from being bulldozed.
These actions are also not covered in the American media.

American support of the Israeli government is against our
national interest on every level: It places us at war
with populations whose desperate plight we are helping to
create, and who, quite correctly, place the responsibility
for their sufferings on us. It makes us an accomplice to
war crimes and an accessory to oppression. This also is
not reported.

In analyzing the American media, we are increasingly
discovering a cover-up of appalling proportions. Israel
is being protected, the news about Palestinians in
particular and Arabs in general is being distorted, and
the American public is being manipulated.

We believe strongly that if Americans knew the truth about
Israel and Palestine -- about the massive amount of our
tax money that is being given away to Israel, and about
the human costs of Israel's American-financed militarism
-- they would demand an immediate re-thinking of our
policies in this region.

It is the goal of If Americans Knew to inform the American
public accurately about this area. Most of all, it is to
inform Americans about our enormous, and too often
invisible, personal connection to it.

Americans, through our blank check to Israel, are
empowering the worst elements of Israeli society, and
undermining those working for a just, peaceful, and
nondiscriminatory nation.

We are driving the violence in this region.
We can stop it.
++++++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++

and your point is. . . . . . .

The obama campaing should focus more on the battle ground states. . . . . particulary Ohio,and pensslyvania. . .if he wins both he will definately carry the day. . . . he should concentrate and keep on talking about the issues and allow the GOP to continue with their antics(he has to respond swiftly and decisively to their phony charges anyway). . . . Once the campaing comes down to personality and who you are comfortable having a bottle of beer with mccain wins hands down. . . . what is david axelrod and all the democartic strategists doing. . . . ? they seriously need to revitalize this campaing in one way or the other. . . . .

davidylan:
Did this thread brand you as the son of the devil? That your ignorant neighbour calls you a devil for not following him to church gives you NO right to just up and ruin any thread that involves biblical doctrine.

This thread i suppose was specifically created to engender christian ideas on the flood. Its not an avenue for jobless individuals constantly drumming their godlessness down our throats.

You deleted your offensive posts a little too late, many who would have chosen to contribute are already turned off. If anyone calls you a devil go to his house and confront him, leave us alone.

go and smoke dry shiit. . . . when you were disparaging allah and his prophet you didnt know that you were attacking some one else's belief abi. . . . stop claiming and hanging unto some stupid innocence. . .  you christains claim that your bible is the word of god and contains the ONLY truth. . .  we have every right to question that claim. . . stop whining like a baby and stand up to that which you assert as the ONLY truth. . . . .nonsense. . . . .