₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU: These stories may be mysteries to you but they are divine revelations to the body of Christ. They may be myths to you but they are true myths to believers in Christ.

Nothing like truth myths after all only myth believers believe in christ and the bible. . .

truthislight: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).

You keep throwing bible verses all over the place. . . .

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18

Kay 17: Is the failure to believe in Jesus an evil OR a legalistic flaw?

The bible says an unbeliever is condemned already. . .

enilove: When someone is ignorant of a fact or existence of a danger,where true love is,such person should be informed of the danger. That is what a true christian will do.

Whether you believe it or not ,hell is real and exists.
No christian can categorically say that he is saved from hell.But we all keep trying by obeying d word of God and faith in the resurrection power of Jesus Christ.

The devil wants people to live a careless life and downplay or neglect holiness. There is tendency for you to want to be careless with your life ,where you feel there is no hell,which is the plan of the devil.
This invariably makes many to commit suicide,because they assume there is non to give account to.

I want you to know that your unbelief does not change any fact. If a blind man ,who has never seen a car before in his life says, " there is nothing called a car",does that cancel the existence or invention of cars?

No true christian will be happy to see people perishing and be happy. If you see such,that christian does not have "love" ,which is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit,& that kind of christian cannot make heaven.

A christian only forwarned, not that he is delighted that some will be destroyed in hell fire.

It is better to believe and change than not to believe and discover the truth when it is too late.

If hell is real why then does it require belief?. . . .The sun is real as such no one needs to believe that it is real. . .Hell remains imaginary. . .

Why should a good person like Bill Gates who is trying his best to end global hunger, see that and end to polio and malaria is found, a person who has used his money to restore the eye sight of many who got blind with corrective surgery etc suffer in hell just because he does not believe in some stories that were told by ancient unknown men, but some one like Osama Bin Laden be in heaven enjoying heavenly maids, flying around and drinking from rivers of wine because he happened to be born into the right religion that accepted the revelation of the alleged creator or the universe?. . .

Why should any body suffer in hell for the crime of unbelief?. . .

Kay 17: Uyi keeps evolving.

So does frosbel. . .

Uyi Iredia: Of course, Christian theology has rationalizations for hell. One is that sinning against an infinitely good God demands a punishment as reparation. Eternal damnation in hell is the reparation. Another [url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell]on Wikipedia[/url] is that hell is compatible with God's justice (and mercy !) because it doesn't tamper with the soul's free choice. This fails since judgement is implemented without the consent of the soul and since mercy is mutually opposed to justice (one seeks punishment for crimes the other witholds it). Some Christians roundtrip the glaring problems with the doctrine by not accepting it (e.g frosbel). Some accept it based on indoctrination (I think this goes for the average Catholic or Pentecostal), others think it is justified as sins demand punishment (I was once like that).
But I think the concept of hell belongs to grossly evil, sadist who revels in the pains of others.

Most christians in the west whose morality has evolved so much see the hell doctrine for what it is.. .it is nothing but a sadistic retribution. . . .People don't really teach about hell these days because they see it for what it is. . .I just want those that accept the doctrine to tell us why they believe any body deserves to be in hell for eternity just because he disbelieves in stories. . .

okeyxyz: ^^^ First of all: WHy do you want to go to heaven that is based on "stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . ."

I don't want to go to any heaven. . .I just want to know why people think unbelievers deserve to suffer in hell for all eternity for unbelief. . .

ayenny02: were they not believe in God?

They believed in their own god and he is not Allah of the Koran. . .Secondly the verse never said christians or jews after Mohammed. . .That is your own manking just because you want to clear the contradiction away. . .

To criticize the Quran, you must understand the language of the Book because The Noble Quran, which Muslims believe is the word of God, was revealed in the Arabic language.
looking at a "translated" copy rather than Arabic, you will never understand some verses of the Quran, that is how Quran was different with any other books.

Even the arabic version does NOT say anything close to what yoiu are tryinmg to say. . .You are just broining your own oppinion because you want to get rid of the obvious contradiction. . .Christians means christians and jews means jews, it never said that jew or christians believe in allah and follow him at any time. . .If they do they will not be christians or jews. . .they will be muslims. . .

but you brought some wrong information that Quran was compilled by so and so, and now you come with another wrong information that "no one knows who compiled the Quran again, can't you see you don't understand what you are saying again.

Pls if you want to go to any anti-islam sites to copy any wrong information, pls copy the one that you would stand on

Sure the Koran was complied, during the time of the prohet there was no koran in a written form. . .It came later after he died. . .People complied it and wrote it down in a book form. . .Even some hadiths talked about people bringing all the verses that were written on leaves, bones etc and putting them together in a book form. . .

I was going through the thread tittled "Good Atheists Will Go To Heaven" - Pope Frances and I noticed that many people were againt the idea of good athiest going to heaven. . .

My question for the hell believers is this?. . .Why will you like any body to suffer in hell just for lack of belief in stories and hypothesis?. . .Not because the person is a mass murderer or a serial rapist and criminal. . .Why should a person suffer eternity in hell simply because he does not believe in stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . .

ezme: Mazaje when you guys are handling the logistics please include my transport fare and hotel bills. I need to witness this thing.

No problem. . .I will let it to be known when am in Nigeria and ready. . .

musKeeto: Hhehehe.. Mazaje, just hire one ABC bus, pack all d viewers..

Btw, the guy you shot in the story you just shared, what was his reaction after the shooting? Did he blame his methods or the 'juju'?

I have done it twice, the first time, it wasn't me that shot at the guy, it was my soldier friend that was also skeptical about it that shot the guy, he also wanted to test the efficacy of the bullet proof juju as we all hear at in various stories. He is a believer but was just skeptical because of his experinces with the militants in the naija delta region.

The second guy i pulled the trigger myself and immediately the sound went off and the gun shook, the guy held his leg. . .We didn't have time for blaming anything we just wanted to take him to the hospital. . .After the whole thing, my friend who I was trying to prove the point to said that juju actually fails sometimes, but it doesn't mean it is not real, bla bla bla. . . .The normal excuse they always give when such things fail when tested in a controlled environment. . .

Image123: Substitute 'killing' and put 'devil' in your post and perhaps get some perspective on your logic.

meaning your god is satan since he commanded many people to commit murder and genocide to in the bible. . .

Mr anony: Lol, you really don't see the problem do you? If you claim that morality evolves, how can we know for sure that it didn't evolve between the time they were victims to the time they were the "oppressors"? How can we know for sure that morality hasn't evolved again such that you are now morally wrong for condemning them?

Morality mostly evolves for the better. . .It makes us more tolerant and less acceptable of evil deeds. . .Do you deny the fact that morality evolves?. . .I am judging them based on your own objective moral standards. . .Enslaving people against their will is an objective moral evil. . .Rape is an objective moral evil, killing innocent children for crimes they did not commit is an objective moral evil. . .I am judging them and condeming their actions because it is objectively wrong. . .

ayenny02: Allah (swt) declares in this ayah that whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, whether they are Jews, Christians, Sabians or Muslims, they are going to have their reward with their Rabb.

The qualification of this statement however is that in addition to believing in Allah and the Last Day, one must also believe in the prophet or messenger that was sent to them. We as Muslims believe in Allah and the Last Day, and we also believe in the Prophet (saw) as the Messenger of Allah. Thus this ayah applies to the Muslims and it is the Muslims that Allah is referring to when He (swt) says “the ones who believe”.

As for the Jews, it refers to those among them who lived at the time of Musa [Moses] (as) and they believed in Musa (as) as the messenger of Allah. Those among them who believe in Allah (swt) and the Last Day, and they do the actions that are pleasing to Allah (swt), the actions for which they hope they will be rewarded on the Last Day, the actions that are taught to them by their messenger, it is these that are going to the Garden, it is these have their reward with their Rabb.

The same is true for the Christians. Those among them who believed in ‘Isa [Jesus] (as) as the messenger of Allah (swt) and they worshipped Allah (swt) correctly. They do the actions that ‘Isa (jesus) commanded them to do hoping to get their reward from Allah on the Last Day. It is these that have their reward from their Rabb. So we see that this
ayah is discussing those among the previous nations who believed in their prophet correctly.

It is only those among them who believe in the prophet or messenger who was sent to them that are promised salvation in the Hereafter.

MY QUESTION FOR YOU, HOW MANY CHRISTIANS BELIEVES IN ALLAH AFTER JESUS HAS GONE?

You are just making things up, all Jews believe in Moses, No Jew believes in Mohammed or Allah, Jews believe in Jehovah Yahweh. . .All christians believe in Jesus. Non believes in Allah, non has ever believed in Allah and non that professes to be a christian will ever believe in Allah. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .I gave you clear contradictions in the Koran but as usual you are just making things up and claming they are not contradictions. . .This is the same thing christians do when you show them biblical contradictions they come up with the kind of funny explanations you are presenting here. . .Even Tbaba who has more knowledge of the Koran than any muslim I know does the same. Tbaba has educated me a lot about the Koran and has debunked a lot of my false assumptions about the Koran and has educated me as well. But even him comes short, we have been through some of these before with him. . .Despite the fact that he educates and debunks many false assumptions with clarity he still falls short sometimes and goes into the making stuff up mood, just because he also has this pre concieved notion that the Koran is perfect and contains no error or contradiction. . .

Mr Man, you better accept your faith that your Bible was full of contradiction, all your statement lack points.
Those who write New testament, we see like Mark, Paul, John, peter etc can you also mention those who compiled the Quran where their names mention in the Quran?

No one knows who complied the Koran. . .It wasn't coplied by Mohammed. . The earliest copy of the Koran we have dates to the 9th century AD about 200 years after the prophet died. . .

[quote author=Misunderstood_G]Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. MAKES PERFECT SENSE..
Atheism: A religion in which you believe in nothing, show it off, think you're superior to others with a religion characterized by a God, talk about how retarded people with religions are, and basically hate on other/people with other religions
Atheism: The religion devoted to one's own smug sense of superiority.
As there is no way to use logic to prove or disprove the existence of God, atheism is, in fact, based completely on theory and faith. Also its followers tend to be no less educated, dogmatic, and fanatical about their chosen spiritual path than they claim christians, muslims claim to be..
Whats My point? If people want to believe in God, or don't want to believe in God, it's really nobody else's buisiness.
Get over it you fools.. and stop arguing.. Even the Op is a f*****tard for posting this..end of story[/quote]Is this your OWN definition of atheism?. . .

Uyi Iredia: The Golden Rule from Christianity, the concept of Dao (or Tao) in Taoism, the underlying belief in theistic religions that the universe must have a self-sufficient cause, the call to high moral standards (some of which is acceptable to most people e.g honesty, discipline, cleanliness). Not to mention the reasoning used in justifying the validity of their religions which albeit, could be said to have flaws, is an employment of their mentations.

Golden rule isn't from christianity. . .Confucius(479 BC), Thales (546 BC),Isocrates(338 BC) have stated the golden rule hundreds of years before it appeared in the bible. . .

FOLYKAZE: Good Good

Considering what the people said yesterday on hurting human. The last experince wasn't nice. . . I have tried to wait for your own side. Im really impressed with what you wrote in your post.

Now, since you have agree on shooting object, do you support anyone of my suggestion: life animal (goat, chicken or dog) or banana suckers. Hope we can use any of those listed objects or you got any other suggestion? Most of, it still remain on our position that you will shoot and the gun will jam; once your bullet hit, it wont penetrate

A goat will do. . .I will prefer that than hitting a human. . .We won't need any doctor and police if it's a goat. . .As long as what you are claiming can apply to the goat then a goat will be what we shall use to try it out. . .

Mr anony: Wow! Are you about to deny that you have ever said that morality evolves?

So?. . .how does that affect the fact that even by their own standard what they did is evil. remember they called others that did the same thing they did to others evil people. . .

ijawkid: You don forget sat rahab and her household no follow for the all??.............God who isn't genocidal provided a means of escape for those who chose to obey His words.....

That land belonged to the isrealites by virtue of the fact that Yahweh had promised them and so stealing isn't the word to use to decsribe the action the isrealites took.....it is taking what rightly belongs to them...........the canaanites them too do strong head like ikwerre people....lol.....

E be like say this wuna Yahweh na Ijaw man ohh. . .Ijaw poeople sabi sell one piece of land to 10 different people. . .them dey even sell river to people sef. . .

Who told you that the canaanite gods didn't also give them the land?. . .

Ihedinobi: The bolded means what exactly? That the moral code the Hebrews used named things good and evil according to how those things affected them? Lol

Since you can't tell me if slavery is good or evil, or if genocide, land grab, raping women after battles etc are good or evil. . I have nothing further to discuss with you. . .You know very well that your own men of god are barbirians are no different from, Moa, Hitler or some taliban war lord hiding some where in the hills of tora bora. . .

jayriginal: Purist(my bro), Mazaje and Folykaze, permit me to be blunt.

I think it is folly of the highest order to go through with this. This is primarily because someone is going to get hurt. In fact, I do not think anyone will really go through with it, but I seek to register my objection in case I am wrong.

Now, there are other ways to test this so called bullet proof. Some inanimate object can be used and observed after the event. No human will be harmed.
Even the James Randi challenge will not accept proof that involves serious bodily harm.

If there is an impasse, the ghostofsparta's challenge is there. That involves no harm to a human and can be investigated. As long as it doesnt involve sugar in the tank or other cheap shenanigans, it should be easy to see through.

I have tried this thing twice before. . .The last time I was very messy because the guy almost died after making sooo much mouth. . .Believe me the guy was so confident that I was moved, and even believed that if I pulled the trigger it will not penetrate. . .The way the guy played on me before I pulled the trigger almost got me, I pulled and immediately after the sound, he just held his leg. . .I was actually suprised. Initially I knew it was going to hit him, but the way he drammatized everything got me thinking it will fail. . .

He was shouting at the top of his voice and saying his incantations in yoruba and telling me to shoot him. . .I shot him and it entered immediately. . .You know the way gun shot is. . .It happens in a split second. . I just pulled the triger and there he was holding his leg. . .

I am ready to shoot any body as long as there will be police and doctors involved and that person MUST fall, if he doesn't fall he will shoot me back and take 10,000 euros. . .By fall I mean penetrate. . .

EDITED.

FOLYKAZE: If I tell someone I can swim, is my life not risk if I proceed to do it? I might lose control in the water or a big fish attack me. If you suggest we shoot objects, then I will agree but we dont know mazaje decision on this. Well on my side, anything that will work and satisfy is exploration into black powers

We can shoot objects am down with ANYTHING. . .I have done this before, twice to be precise. . .Am game. . .Anything, My position is that I will shoot and the bullet will not jam, once I hit the target it must penetrate. . .

ijawkid: if only you had the record of the promise made by the canaanite gods then we for no dey here dey talk na.....

According to the story, shebi they talk say them kill them all?. . . .No be their god say make them go steal land? he is all powerful and can do all things but he can not build a land for his people , na to dey tell them say make them go steal other people land. . .

Mr anony: Interesting, was there ever a time when killing and stealing was not wrong? If so when?

When did I say this nonsense you typed above. . As usual when you have nothuing to say , all you do is make things up. You know me better than that, i always never play your games. . .Their actions were evil. . .Even by their own standards, because they same thing the egyptians did to them which they termed as evil was the same thing they set out to do unto others. . Moses, Joshua(assuiming the sories were true) , Hitler, Moa etc all belong to the same category. . .

Ihedinobi: Tehehehehehehehehehahahahaha.... Dude, I told you you'd start to talk nonsense if I took you up on what you claimed and here we arr with you spewing it.

It's a non-answer to say "what they did was evil because a moral code says it's evil" when the moral code is undefined. That's exavtly the same as saying to me that what they did was evil because it was evil (which you eventually said anyway).

Good night joo. Imagine answer to kweshun...hahahahahahahohohohohohoho

Their own moral code says its evil. . .Remember according to the story they egyptians saw that their numbers were increasing and they were afraid they were going to increase and take over their land so they decided to enslave them. They considered the egyptians to be evil based on what they did to them, they called for their god to come and rescue them from their bondage. Only for them to go about doing the same thing to others, taking people's lands, killing them and sparing their lives only when the people agreed to be their slaves. . .

keep running behind your tail. . .You have nothing to say apart from you do not like my answer which is actually a joke on your part. . .

ijawkid: but the canaanites were squatters on that land and needed to find there square root when the real owners came....and always remember,God had made a promise.....and that he has the ultimate right to determine who lives where at any point in time............the isrealites werent land grabbers..that land was there's....

The land was theirs how?. . .And who told you the canaanite gods didnt also make them a promise?. . .remember you only read the jewish version of the story, you didn't read the canaanite version. . .They were land graber and thieves. . .

Ihedinobi: Lol. So it is NOT your evolved morality that condemns them, it is their own morality that does? Talk about talking from both sides of the mouth.

Look, when you've a real answer, post it here and I'll respond to it. Insisting that a morality judged them evil means exactly nothing for my question until you explain what that morality is and what standards or basis it rests on.

Both morality condems them. . . .Our evolved morality and theirs as well. . .I have answered but the only excuse you are giving is that you don't like my answer. that is not a valid response. .I don't like you answer is not a valid response. . .

Ihedinobi: Oh sure, "don't dodge the question" like you've already answered mine. What do you think you did up there? I asked you what made their actions evil and you answer that it was the fact that such actions were crimes, that is, evil. That's why I told you not to make that much of your ability to type.

Now don't waste any more energy responding to me until you can[b] explain how their actions were evil[/b], that is, until you can provide the basis of judgment.

keep running around chasing your own tail. . .their actions were evil based on what they themselves termed evil to be. . .they considered their enslavement in egypt as an evil act, yet they still went ahead and enslaved other people. . .According to them the egyptians treated them badly so much so that they god had to come and resuce them by sending Moses. only for them to go about killing others, raping their woman and looting their land just because they wanted to take their lands that was flowing with milk and honey. . .I am judging them based on how they judged others that did the same to them. . .

Now you answer the question. . .. . .

Mr anony: Yes some actions are truly good or truly evil e.g.
1. It is truly evil to r[color=#000000]ape[/color] women for fun.
2. It is truly evil to torture babies for fun.

You know these things yet you still go about defending the bible and many of such actions in the OT?. . .

Ihedinobi: See? I told you it wasn't just the ability to type that qualified you for this discussion. The question remains: on what basis does this evolved morality judge the actions of these men evil?

I'll add a bonus too if you want: if morality evolved, then what's the sense in judging past actions carried out under one regime of morality by another regime, an evolved one even, of morality?

On the basis of them commiting crime like enslaving others, killing them, raping their woman and looting their properties. . .Those things are crimes, even at that time. . .

Do you consider enslaving other people a good thing? what about ethinic cleansing and raping woman after an unjust war for land grab?. . .Are those things good things to you. . Please answer and don't dodge the question. .

Mr anony: Let me get you right, will you hold that Moses and Joshua's actions were not morally wrong in their time because morality hadn't evolved?

They were wrong even at that time because killing and stealing were wrong even at that time. They themselves claimed the egyptians did them wrong by enslaving them, meaning even at that time they knew that enslaving others was wrong. . .From my first post I stated that if such men were alive today no body will consider them as good prophets but as war criminals. . .

ayenny02: I can see where u get problem now let me explain it to you;

From verse 99:6
that they mankind will proceed in scattered groups that they may be shown their deed.

Explanation:
what day Allah was talking about, "the day of judgement"
And He said people will scattered in groups, which group, "the believers and disbelievers"
The book of record of good and bad deeds of muslims will be given to them,

As for the others (disbelievers), it will be announced publicly that these are ones who lied against their Lord.

Allah now continue with the following verses that; 99:7-8,
8. So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom shall see it
9. And So whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom shall see itQuran 2:62, Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
This verse was talking about The Jews i.e. Israelites before Christ (PBUH) who believed in Allah and the Last Day were infact Muslims and thus in the Hereafter they’ll earn the reward for their Faith and deeds. Same goes for the Christians before the Last Prophet (PBUH) declared his prephethood and the Sabians as well ]
If you have anything again just bring and let me explain it for you. You will never never see contradiction in Quran

Jews who believe in Allah and the last day were muslims?. . .What exactly are you on about. . .here is the problem. . .You see a contradiction and like the christyians instead of accpeting it you are all over the place making things up. .The verse promises christians reward for their good deeds, it does NOT talk about any christians or jews before the prophet Mohammed. It just says christians. . .And here you are making stuffs up and giving them your own meaning as usual. . .The verse is clear christians will be rewared for their good deeds. in another it calls christians idolaters and in anotyher it says idolaters will have no reward any where but will be punished in teh fire. . .The verses are clear, you are just making things up to make it sem as if it is not a contradiction. . .It clearly is. . .

Why the Qur'an is Unique because it is Only One Version – Arabic: There are no different versions of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, only different translations, but none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic version

There used to be different versions before uthman destroyed the rest and kept only one version. . .But still it doesn't make it different from some other books and you are yet to show me anything inside the koran that caould not be written by men that lived during that period. . .

Ihedinobi: No! What exactly are you on about?

So what if you would try them and kill them for what they did? The question is simple: on what basis do you judge their actions evil?

Its not even about me, I have told you that our morality has evolved so much now that we consider slavery a bad thing and land grab is theft. . .If Moses and Joshua were alive today he will be tried for genocide, land grab, theft and murder and ethnic cleansing. . .