₦airaland Forum

thehomer: That will be a lucky break. He might even begin by asking what God's commandments are, how you know he (Mr anony) violates them then he'll complete the questions by wondering if you know what it means to be born-again. Despite the fact that its meaning is of little relevance to answering the simple questions.

You know my man very well. . . .LOL!

Mr anony: I do not deny that, what I disagree with is the notion that it was this same world because the world obviously changed when Man fell. In Genesis chapter 3, God cursed the land for man's sin, in Revelations chapter 21, God promises us a new earth. The disease-free earth you are asking for is not this one. It is the new one which God will provide.

It is still the same world with the same things if we are to agree with the story. . .same land, ame water, oceans etc. . .As you said, god cursed the land. . .The land before wasn't a supernatural land was it?. . .Remember you said that i was talking about a supernatural world that transcends natural phenomena such as chemistry. Was there no natural chemistry in the garden of eden?. . .How did the plants grow for example if not through natural chemistry?. . .A world without diseases doe not mean any suprnatural world. . .

Since you have stubbornly refused to see it. I can't help you.

Stubbornly, eh?. . .LOL!!

I agree that God has allowed babies to feel pain and suffer diseases but I disagree with the notion that He didn't help them in any way.

How did he help them?. . .Don't tell me that he helped them by providing doctors and their parents etc. . .What about those babies in rural african societies that don't have acess to doctors and came into this world already sick and in pains?. . .How did your god help those ones and in what ways, since basic drugs and doctors are not even there. . .As for the ones that have acess to doctors and drugs, how did your god help them as well?. . .

Interestingly you have set up your shop in such a way that you would blame God for everything.
1. if you are expecting, you don't think God had anything to do with it but if the baby are miscarried, you blame God
2. if the children are still-born you still blame God
3. If they are born with a sickness, you blame God
4. if they are born healthy, you don't think God had anything to do with it
5. if the children die at any point, you blame God
6. If you are rich and successful, God had nothing to do with it. Once you fall on bad times you blame God for allowing you fall on bad times etc etc.

i don't believe in any god as such i don't blame and can never blame any god for anything. . .I just wanted to counter your claim of god being responsible for people's lives and having a role in it. . .If god is credited for all the god things, then why do people run away and credit the devil or other things for the bad things?. . .

The problem with your worldview is that you believe that everybody ought to be rich, healthy and happy and my question is why? especially if there is no design plan. How do you know anything is supposed to be a certain way if you don't presuppose a purpose? If you don't believe everyone ought to be rich healthy and happy, then a world of poverty, disease and suffering shouldn't bother you at all.

How does design plan presuppose anything?. . .I fail to see that. . .I believe that every body is supposed to be rich, happy and healthy because every body deserves to be happy and lead a stable life as opposed to being sad, poor and sick. . .

Emusan: Let it happen first. Base on your understanding but it was not so actually.

Let it happens first?. . .It has happend many times already. . .Educate me about mutations since you claim it is noit actually so. . .

Emusan: Your ignorant is alarming!
Answer this question if our atmosphere vanish now, what will happen to earth including organism?
What happen before this your organic molecules produce oxygen, when Sun always there?

You don't want to learn. . .Are you talking about atmosphere or ozone?. . .The earth's atmosphere was there when the first living organisms came about, I told you many organisms do not need oxygen to survive. . .Oxygen is not the only gas in the earth's atmosphere and many living things do not require it to survive. . .Why don't you want to learn?. . .

What are the criterial to be a scientist?

Creation scientist are not scientist. They claim the earth is 6000 years old without telling us how the measured or calculated it. . .They claim the earth was in existence before the sun without telling us how the earth was in orbit without the sun. . .They keep making claims without providing ANY evidence, they only evidence is the bible which is a book of myths and not a scientific book. . .

thehomer: I'm 99.95% sure that Mr anony will not answer these direct questions despite the fact that you've helped him by giving the answers. He will try to give you a run-around.

Trust my man, he will come and start asking me questions. Instead of commenting on what I have written, he will ask me if I want to go to heaven and the measures I have taken to see to it that i go to heaven. . .LOL!

Does being born again stop people from violating god's laws and commandements?. . .the answer is no. . .Does anony sometimes violates his god's laws despite him being born again?. . .the answer is YES. . .So how does being born again and having free will stop any body from violating god's laws in heaven?. . .if satan can do it, why not humans?. . .

Emusan: Go and read more about Mutations

Mutations cannot cause gain in/new genetic information instead it causes loss in genetic information.
For organism to evolve to organism it needs new/gain new genetic information.

What are you saying?. . . Mutations produces are errors which manufacture alternative genes that may not already be in a gene pool, making it an advantage. Example lets assume that one day, a baby of an animal is is born that has a longer nose compared to the others as a result of mutation and the long nose gives it the ability to dig for bugs easier. This, of course, not only increases its chances for survival, but it also introduces a new allele that wasn't there before. Since this animal's chances for survival are higher due to its ability to find bugs, it will have offspring that carry its long nosed allele. This leads to a chain effect can cause a new breed that only have long noses and thus a new species. . . .That is how it works based on my understanding. . .

Emusan: You even try to do a little research. Now listen to yourself: by mazaje from wiki "Ozone is formed by ultralviolet rays stricking oxygen" then where did that oxygen come from, when the atmosphere had no oxygen? You just shot ypurself in the leg, why can't you read what you copy first with an open mind before you paste?

Brother, you don't want to learn. . .Oxygen was first produced by photosynthetic prokaryotic organisms that emitted O2 as a waste product. That was how oxygen came about, it was a waste product of other organisms. . . .Ultraviolet light striking these oxygen molecules created the ozone. . ..

But do you believe that some scientist are called creationist scientist?

They are not scientist but religious people that go about using the knowledge they have gotten through science to further their religion. . .They are not scientist but theologians. . .Tell me, what workable theory have they proposed, these cretion scientist of yours?. . .What scientific knowledge have they added to the world of science what invention have they made from their creation science?. . .Let me give you an example, drugs have been made using the principles of evolution, tell me one thing that has been made using the principle of creation science. . .

Mr anony: The above shows you have not thought of diseases deeply enough. As per the bold, please provide scriptural reference

Did the bible not say that god created and saw that everything was good?. . .According to christian theology sin, disease and death only came into the world after the fall of man. . .Do you deny that?. . .

Strawman! Here's what I said:

in order to call one chemical reaction bad and another good, you are really saying that some chemical reactions are supposed to happen while others aren't supposed to happen. This pressuposes that there is a purpose and a purpose presupposes a designer.

The parts in red are the parts you conveniently cut out

I still don't see how your assumptions presupposes a designer in any way. . .It just shows that there are bad chemical reactions that humans want to get rid of because they affect them negatively. . .

Another strawman. I'm sure there's a difference between "allowed" and "infected"

Going by what you are trying to claim, i can also say that your god allowed babies to be infected and be born wih diseases, suffer excruciating pains, live for a year or few months in pains and die without helpin them in any way to ease their suffering?. . .Interesting. . .

Emusan: You're not an evolutionist yet you know animal evolve from unicellular organisms.

Remember unicellular organism as your claim above shows that they survive through CO2. Then how animal now evolve and survive with oxygen?

According to scientist they evolved as a result of many factors like mutation and adaptation. . .Natural selection. . .

Emusan: @everybody
This thread is not base on LIFE only don't forget there are many facts stated above. Just let me grant you life started under no oxygen atmosphere.

How does the ozone layer in the atmosphere form?

because you can all agree with me that if our atmosphere should vanish now everything on earth would be disrtoyed.

Anyway what you're arguing about have been noticed by some atheist scientist that's why they later said Life started in the ocean.

Till today scientist can't give a specific place where life start.

You keep spewing ignorance, first you claimed that the earths atmosphere can not be formed in the presence of sun light. . .Now you are talking about ozone layer. . .From wikipedia. . . Ozone in the Earth's stratosphere is created by ultraviolet light striking oxygen molecules containing two oxygen atoms (O2), splitting them into individual oxygen atoms (atomic oxygen); the atomic oxygen then combines with unbroken O2 to create ozone, O3.

There is nothing like atheist scientist. . .There are just scientist. no muslim scientist, jewish scientist, hindus scientist or atheist scientist. . . .According to scientist life started in water, your claim that scientist can't give a specific answer is false. . .

Emusan: I agree with you they are unicellular but answer this simple question. Did animal evolve from plant?

I don't know. . .Am not an evolutionist. . But they said animals evolved from unicellular organisms not plants. . .

Emusan: I can see, so you mean the first primodal germ that life evolve from produce plant's life first before animal's life?
Then when did organism change to plant and plant to animal?

The first organisims that came to life according to scientist were unicellular organisms and they did not require oxygen to survive. . . Oxygen was first produced by photosynthetic prokaryotic organisms that emitted O2 as a waste product. photosynthetic prokaryotic are plant like already. . .I don't know when they evoled to animals. . .I was just debunking your claim about life not existing without oxygen. . .Even plants which are living things do not need oxygen. . .

plaetton: @Mazaje,
Are you actually trying to educate this guy?
You know it's futile.

Some times you just have to try. . .

Emusan: No I believe in big bang because I quoted from it.

The one I have explained above.

So because Micheal Denton lied that if "If there was oxygen, life could not start. If there was no oxygen, life could not start." means what?. . .Hope you know that Denton has changed his positions many many times. . .

Oxygen is absolutely NOT required for all organisms. Oxygen is not only not required, but is extremely toxic to organisms called obligate anaerobes. Many organisms that are obligate anaerobes are called "sulfate reducers" (mostly bacteria) and use gases containing sulfur in the place of oxygen. . . All plants use CO2 instead of oxygen, if there was no oxygen they would be fine. they just give off oxygen, like how we give off CO2.
From wikipedia. . .

Before photosynthesis evolved, Earth's atmosphere had no free oxygen (O2). Oxygen was first produced by photosynthetic prokaryotic organisms that emitted O2 as a waste product. These organisms lived long before the first build-up of oxygen in the atmosphere,[2] perhaps as early as 3.5 billion years ago. The oxygen they produced would have almost instantly been removed from the atmosphere by weathering of reduced minerals, most notably iron. This 'mass rusting' led to the deposition of banded iron formations. Oxygen only began to persist in the atmosphere in small quantities about 50 million years before the start of the Great Oxygenation Event.[3] This mass oxygenation of the atmosphere resulted in rapid buildup of free oxygen. At current atmospheric rates, today's concentration of oxygen could be produced by photosynthesisers in 2,000 years.[4] Of course, in the absence of plants, photosynthesis was slower in the Precambrian, and the levels of O2 attained were modest (<10% of today's) and probably fluctuated greatly; oxygen may even have disappeared from the atmosphere again around 1,900 million years ago[5] These fluctuations in oxygen had little direct effect on life, with mass extinctions not observed until the appearance of complex life around the start of the Cambrian period, 541 million years ago.[6] The presence of O2 provided life with new opportunities. Aerobic metabolism is more efficient than anaerobic pathways, and the presence of oxygen undoubtedly created new possibilities for life to explore.[7]:214, 586 An atmospheric oxygen level about 2% by volume is necessary to make compounds such as collagens, used by all animals; thus high atmospheric oxygen levels are needed for large life-forms.[8]
Since the beginning of the Cambrian period, O2 levels have fluctuated between 15% and 30% of atmospheric volume.[9] Towards the end of the Carboniferous period (about 300 million years ago) atmospheric O2 levels reached a maximum of 35% by volume,[9] which may have contributed to the large size of insects and amphibians at this time.[8] Whilst human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, have an impact on relative carbon dioxide concentrations, their impact on oxygen levels is less significant.

Emusan: I know atheist are the most brilliant in the universe no wonder they keep deluding themself.

An illitrate Moses said atmosphere had formed before sun appeared but the brilliwnt atheist said Sun exist before atmosphere had formed. Now evidence had shown that atmosphere can't form in the presence of sun. Who is more ignorant?

I have sheld more light to your question and your ape-like brother above.

I believe you boycott the thread created by Logicboy03 yesterday "the research that refuted ape-like creature". Keep deluding yourself.

So your believe the bible when it says that the earth was created before the sun?. . .Which evidence showed that the atmosphere can not form in the presence of the sun? . . .What are you saying?. . .

Black Jesus. . . .

Mr anony: Uhm... you are wrong about malaria but let's let that pass. Also you forgot that new diseases show up as old disease disappear.

Wouldn't you agree that a world without diseases would be a world without chemistry because when you really come down to it, diseases are just chemicals reacting with other chemicals and all we do when we make drugs is provide chemicals that will give us the reactions we want? Essentially, what you are really asking for is a supernatural world that transcends natural phenomena such as chemistry.

A world without disease doesn't mean a supernatural world, it is only means a world in which agents that cause diseases have been eradicated. . .Small pox and polio and examples of diseases that we have eradicated or trying to eradicate, malaria and other diseases can be eradicated as well. . .We can still have all the chemisty we want but take away those that are harmful to us and affect our lives negatively. . .according to the religious hypothesis your subscribed to, your god initially created the natural world without and diseases before adam and eve failed the test. . .It wasn't a supernatural world, it was this same world without dieases according to the story. . .So i really do not know what you are on about. . .

Secondly, in order to call one chemical reaction bad and another good, you are really saying that some chemical reactions are supposed to happen while others aren't supposed to happen. This pressuposes that there is a purpose and a purpose presupposes a designer. Wouldn't you agree?

I disagree, you are just begging the question. . .I don't see how saying that some thing is bad while another is good presupposes a designer in anyway. . .

The simple answer is yes God made him, allowed him to live and allowed him to attain whatever position he may be at today.

I should believe this only because you said so?. . .if this is true then it is your god that also created and infected those babies that were born with various diseases at birth and are suffering at the moment. . .Your god infected them with so much pains and sufferings even before they were born and made sure that the early stages of they lives are lived in excruciating pains and suffering, and most of them only get to live for some few months other for a year or two and died. . .So your god did that as well. . . .Nice. . .

Evil Brain: OP is tinking backwards. The earth is not designed or adapted to support life. Rather its life that has adapted itself to survive in the conditions it finds itself. That is what natural selection does, it allows life to adapt.

We know that there has been life on earth for at least 3.5 billion years. There have been several times during that period that conditions on earth were drastically different than they are at the present. There was a long period where there was no oxygen in the atmosphere. [url=news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100304-snowball-earth-ice-global-warming/]There were several periods where the entire surface of the earth was covered in ice, even at the equator.[/url]

Yet, at all times life existed and adapted. If you had lived during those periods you could have argued that trheearth was perfectly designed to support the forms of life that were present at those times.

The earth is what it is. It isn't specially made into accommodate anything. Rather it is life that has adapted itself to survive on earth. And natural selection definitely applies here.

You have said it all. . .

Prosper793: Are you an infidel??

Yesss. . . . .

Logicboy03: Bullshiit!


There is no malaria in Europe because the mosquito can't survive the cold winters. The climate for most of the year is not favourable for them. Even our very own nairaland muskeeto moved to hot India



Other than that, I agree with your post!

^^

. . .

Mr anony: Good me too. would you like us to explore what a world without sickness will actually look like?

It will look good. . .Humans are trying to create a world without diseases by eradicting some, example there is no malaria here in Europe because it has been eradicated. . .Polio is out. . .Drugs to cure diseases are all man attempt to have a world without one or find cures to diseases. . .

[/quote]in bold: He'll have to actually tell his life story for me to meet that demand. But let me ask, how do you know it is his hard-work and not his cheating that helped him up?

So?. . .Even if he cheated it still has nothing to do with your god. . .

Let us leave things we don't know, let us assume it is as you say that his hard work and people around him helped him up. Yet neither he nor the people that "helped" him had any control over his life. None of them kept him alive, none of them kept his heart beating, none of them kept his brain working, none of them kept his lungs working or helped him breathe or helped his cells function. Let us even come to how he met these helpers of his; what is the guarantee they would like him and what t help him? what about all the multiple possibilities that could have happened such that he didn't even meet them not to talk of them helping him? There are so many factors affecting where he found himself. To claim that it was his own doing is just ignorant.

So it is your god's doing?. . .How?. . Is it your god that kept his lungs functioning or his lung cells?. . .Is it your god that made people like him or his gestures and the way he treated them?. . .Just show me how your god has anything to do with his life. . .You just keep jumping around asking and posing irrelevant questions. . .

Mr anony: Lol, do you even know what a responsibility is? The fact that you want to do something does not place a responsibility upon you to do it

And this means what?

Mr anony: you still haven't answered my question. Do you want a world without sickness? Yes or no? because if you don't, then you have no business complaining that there are sick people in the world you currently live in.

Sure, i will want a world without sickness.

How do you know this to be true?

His hard work and the people around him helped him to attain what ever position he has attained in life. . .Your god has nothing to do with that. . .If you disagree then you should tell me exactly how your god has helped him attain anything in his life. . .

hisblud: are you saying that objective morality is universal morality?

Answer the question, do you disagree that morality evolves yes or no?. . .You have been refusing to answer anything , but you keep asking questions. . .I will just keep playing your games. . .

Logicboy03: C'mon.....Majaze, you know the answer to that!

Anony asks this questions to shift the argument from his weak point to a place where you are on the defensive


Atheist; Anony, why should I thank God for my wealth but not thank him for the suffering of children in Somalia

Anony; Have you done anything for children in somalia

Atheist;

. . . .PERFECT!!!

Mr anony: Would you like a world where no one could ever possibly get sick? Would such a world prove God to you?

As some one rightly pointed out, isn't that the utopia you guys call heaven?. . .I will love a world where your god will do his job, at least hell the sick kids whose parents are constantly praying for them to be healed without relying on humans to do everything for him, since you guys claim he exist and interferes in the world. . .

The bold is a terrible contradiction. You either placed yourself somewhere or you found yourself somewhere not both. So which is it?

The position he fond himself is has nothing to do with your god. . .

Mr anony: You see my problem with you here is that your argument is not consistent. If your argument is that life just happens, then if the kids suffer and die it is just their luck, if the kids survive and live healthy, it is also just their luck. Likewise, if you help them, it is just their luck, if you don't help them, it is also just their luck. Whether you are rich or poor it is just your luck, whether they suffer or not it is also just their luck. Whether you help or not, life just happens. Where then exactly does the "responsibility" you are talking about come from?

The responsibility comes from his compassion as a human being to another human he see is in need of help. . .Why do you keep asking silly and weak questions?. . .

striktlymi: I guess so...I really have no ish if we disagree but all I ask is that we are sincere in our disagreements.

I understand how someone can see contradictions in Sacred scriptures...I try as much as possible to look at each argument from both sides of the divide...

Even in cases where the Quran had been accused of propagating some very terrible teachings, I have come to the conclusion that those who say this basically do so out of misunderstanding...

Some of these misunderstandings are sincere but others sadly are not...if we must disagree I will like it to be very sincere and devoid of any sentiments...though difficult.

Roger. . .

striktlymi: Sacred scriptures seems to be contradictory but after going through the so called contradictions myself, I discovered that what we have basically are people misunderstanding it.

We will always disgree on that. . .

hisblud: mazaje how does other religion in their books show how one can know god?

Go read up the books. . .Why are you asking me?. . .