₦airaland Forum

mcfynest: yap....God is merciful dats y he givs us time for mercy so we can repent

By closing his eyes?. . .

Logicboy03: Take Frosbel for instance.....the guy has gone off the rails.....he hardly even writes like a christian.....he sounds like Stalin fighting against hell preachers and the catholic church

I remember when frosbel used to threaten people with hell back in the days, now he is the one preaching against it. . .

He is an honest guy and I like him. . .He is one of the honest ones around. . .I really do not understand his greetings and all but, every body is entittled to his/her style. . .

striktlymi: Something you guys fail to realize is that God's justice is primarily in the afterlife and not in this life...whatever happens to man now really is not what is most important to God....God is interested in the here and now but the emphasis is in the life after...

If God sends an innocent child to hell then that day I choose not to worship him but this is not so with God...God will not send an innocent adult to hell let alone sending an innocent child.

For man, what seems to be more important is the mortal life we live and thus we build almost everything around this life...

I do understand when one's sentiments would make him dislike the "Bible God" as you guys call him because of what seems to him a terrible act of violence but there is more to it that meets the eyes...look at it closely and you will find out that the 'colour of Guinness stout is actually ruby red instead of black'.

if god can kill innocent children because according to the bible he has done that many times, then what stops him from sending innocent kids to hell?. . .The bible urges christians to spread the good news and tell people about god because all are sinners who have come short of god's glory and condenmed already. . .Accoreding to the christian system of belief we are all born with the original sin of adam and Jesus is what we need to save us. . .

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18

This is the bibles's position, the unbeliever is condenmed already. . .it says Jesus is the only way to god all other ways lead to death and destruction. . .So you are getting it wrongly because the bible does not support your position or what you are saying. . .

The bold answers your question in red.

I just posted what was written in the bible, does that sound like a good or just personality to you?. . .

Logicboy03: Like you read my mind! I just went through the thread as well....the guy seems to be ranting from some butthurt from some other thread

I was suprised i didnt respond to the puerile nonsense he was spewing. . .

striktlymi: You have the power to do everything so you re-program them just because you can?

I bet you see nothing wrong in doing that because of your own standards on morality...

Anyways, the simple truth here is that if we can invent robots to think for themselves and they do what is not required, we can decide to do whatever we like with them without being immoral.

God made us and has the inalienable right to do whatever he wants with us...whether to decommission us or whatever, depending on what suits his purpose without asking us for our opinions just like you can do whatever you like with your robot without seeking its input.

Do you consider god killing children because their parents refuse to worship him a just punishment or a good form of justice?. . .

I choose to ignore what you quoted from Sacred scriptures for two reasons: 1) You can't interpret it; 2) It will lead nowhere. A lot of what you have there are things you really do not understand...for instance if I ask you when God is seen stained with blood you will start 'nacking ya teeth'...

How do you know that I can not interpret it. . .It wasn't me that said god stained his cloth, according to the bible he said it himself. . .God was the one gloating in the passage. . .

annoymous: Its impossible. Even 11mths is near impossible. And fibroids don't allow pregnancies to stay longer except if its blocking the passage (lower part). On the contrary, fibroids usually cause early termination of pregnancy resulting in either a miscarriage or a premature delivery. God has so designed the fetus that after 9mths the placenta begins to degenerate and cannot keep up with providing nutrition for the baby - that's why just before 42 weeks, the pregnant woman is either induced artificially or made to undergo a cesarean section. But of course, you can choose to believe whatever u want.

Our people refuse to be educated and refuse to learn. . .The story on the OP is a made up lie. . .

striktlymi: You now see that there are times when a judgment passed on an individual cannot be considered to be wrong, immoral, unjust and unmerciful as you made it seem before now...

Some judgement are wrong regardless of time, a father starving his kids or infecting them with diseases is always wrong. . .Continiously burning a thief's hands for 20 years for example for stealing is very wrong. . .

We pass judgments based on some form of moral code which those at the receiving end will definitely not be happy with but all the same, since it's the law we accept them as humans but when this has to do with God and his moral codes it becomes very wrong by your standards.

As humans we try our best to pass just laws, example we don't just go about killing the family of theives because some one in their house steals. . .We don't keep burning the body parts of a theif continously because he stole a car. . .There are things we as human beings find inhumane, but things your god is written to drive pleasure in doing, in the bible he kills babies because their parents refuse to worship him, he sends diseases to kids because their parents refuse to obey him etc. . .

Remind me again why I should accept your standards on morality?

What stadard of morality did I say you should accept?

The only question you keep dodging is d robot thingy...I don't know why you fail to see that a robot with artificial intelligence has free will...

Your analogy doesn't make sense in line with what we are discussing. . .Robots do not have free will. . .Christians even use that when making a point for free will, they claim we are not robots. . .A robot is manufactured and programed to do only what the manufacturer wants the robot to do. . .Humans have free will, robots do not. . .

If you as an inventor enables your robots with AI and some of them become rebellious, would it be wrong to put them out of commission?

I will re-programe them so that they don't become rebellious, after all i created them and have the power to do everything I want to do with them. . .When you read the bible you see the bible god doing things that even crazy humans won't do and rejoicing over it. . .Example. . .

Isa 63:1 Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? "It is I, proclaiming victory, mighty to save."

Isa 63:2 Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?

Isa 63:3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.

Isa 63:4 It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come.

Isa 63:5 I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm achieved salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me.

Isa 63:6 I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground."

Here we have the bible god boasting that he killed people that refuse to obey him all alone without outside help and stained his garment with their blood. What kind of god is this . . .Fighting with humans and boasting that he kiled them all alone and stained his garment with their blood. . .Even pyschopaths don't act this way. . .

striktlymi: Do we then say that you are evil, cruel, unmerciful and unjust because you believe a serial killer deserves to die?...Just curious...by what moral code do you believe this serial killer deserves death?

Nope, a seriel killer deserves to die because the person has ended the life of many for no just cause and his life is no better than theirs. . .Puting an end to his life is what I believe will be right because he has put an end to the life of others. . .

Are you aware that you did not answer the robot question I asked some time back...I bring it again: If the robot you invented with artificial intelligence does wrong by your standards, would it be wrong to put it out of commission?

Human beings are not robots so your analogy doesn't do justice to what we are talking about. . .Human beings are said to have free will to chose to obey or disobey. . .

The point here is that these things are done in our society today.

Sure, I agree but they are rightly condenmed. . .

I don't think you have the ability to interpret sacred scriptures...I KNOW that sacred scriptures is misinterpreted by a lot of folks...anyways, I don't want to go into this discourse now.

Ok then, we will leave it at that. . .

So one can be sane and engage in things you consider wrong? What makes you think that Obama is in the wrong while you are right at those times?

Sure, one can be sane and do many many ill and wrong things. . .In the case of Obama he himself has admitted that not closing guatananamo and abiding by hebeas corpus is wrong. . .He admitted this himself. . .

Ihedinobi: History makes clear that we'll never agree short of a miracle on issues like this, so I don't plan to pursue this. Even should we continue to discuss it, it won't be on this thread which I want to focus wholly on videos of worth to the Christian and the seeking heart not on debates of this sort. So if you want to discuss it further, you may start another thread. I won't answer the above here.

Sure, sorry for derealing the thread. . .Let this thread be about the videos and what you want it to be, not the back and forth. . .

striktlymi: Now this is getting very funny and really Mazaje I don't think you are looking at this objectively...a lot of sentiments in the background...anyways I understand why...

What does it mean to say someone loves another? When does one performs an act of mercy? Do we conclude that a judge is a sadist, unmerciful and one that is without love because he sentenced his son to death after the guy killed someone in cold blood as required by the law?

Mazaje, to love does not mean an absence of justice...to act based on justice does not mean that one is unmerciful. These are things you should know...you want to treat someone better than they deserve and you go to have a cup of tea with a serial killer in a very dark alley?

God is merciful, God is just and God is loving...there is time for everything...a time to be Just...a time to be merciful and every time to be loving...one's love does not mean he should shirk his duties.

A serial killer that derives pleasure in klling others deserves to die. . .Does a person that refuses to worship a god deserve to be starved to death for chosing not to worship such a god?. . .what about free will?. . .I gave you specific instances where god in the bible said he starved people, infected them with diseases and killed their kids because they refused to worship him. . .is that a just judgment?. . .what about their free will to chose to serve him?. . .

I laugh...you are giving specific examples when we are talking about man's injustice to man today? Go and ask that lady in the middle East who is flogged publicly for talking to a man in public...Ask the prisoner in Guantanamo bay who is held for 10 years without trial...when you get their definition of justice then we can talk...

Don't we all condem these acts and call them evil?. . .Even in the societies where such things are done, they government tries to go after the perpetrators and arrest them. . .

If the above is your concern then you have nothing to worry about because God will not send someone who is not guilty to hell because the individual sincerely and through no fault of his does not believe in Jesus...

And you know this how?. ..God told you this but told the writers of the bible his alleged word another thing?. . .The writers of the bible said believe in Jesus and you will be saved, disbelive and you are already condenmed. . .

I laugh when people say this things really...that anyone who does not accept Jesus will go to hell even when the individual sincerely is not convinced about Jesus, but does what is 'right'?

It is not that easy to go to hell...

The bible claerly says that Jesus is the only way to god, no one can go to god except through him and any one that disbelives in condemed already, i really do not know what you are on about. . .it seems even the biblical form of justice does not sound appealing to you. . .I know many christians that do not have a problem with that and will clearly tell you that, what I have stated is the position of the bible. . .Many have stated it here and in another places. . .

Is Obama sane?

He is, he does things that are wrong and people rightly condem him for that. . .

Ihedinobi: Very interesting video. Bart was really upset about suffering and obviously would rather it didn't exist, but obviously denying God's existence neither solves the problem of suffering nor does it make it go away. Such a response is the same as a child's tantrum about something it wants but can't have for some reason. I actually felt for Bart but his position wasn't well thought out.

Bart made his agruments from the bible, he pointed out that some of the bible writers(he mentioned them) said only certian groups of people will suffer. . .Some said only the guilty and sinners will suffer, while other said only the rightoues will suffer. But the reality we see around does not support any of their positions. . .You analogy is very flawed because in the bible god in many places PROMISED to protect his own, guide them and keep them away from evil. . .The fact that many believers are suffering for just no reason means either such a god is a failure or he does not exist, that was Ehrmans point. . .The reality we see around does NOT support any of the biblical claims is what he was saying. . .

Dinesh's answers were remarkable. I hope that they eventually get through to Bart.

A person who can not clearly say if god answers prayers or not is someone whose answer you consider remarkable?. . .interesting. . .

striktlymi: Maybe the ant thingy is just too much I guess...let me use something more practical: You are an inventor...you stumbled onto a new finding: Artificial intelligence (AI)...you made robots that look like you...

You love these robots and even called them your children...you set rules for these robots to abide by and in the process, some of them become rebellious...would it be wrong to kill these rebellious agents?

Not if I claim to be loving, merciful and kind. . .To be merciful for example is to treat people better than they deserve. . .God is said to be merciful some say he is all merciful and all loving, yet we see read about him doing things even the worse sadistic psychopath will not do. . .I am saying these things based on the attributes of the said god in question. . .

But I just demonstrated that humans did judge each other in such 'unjust' way and still do...

Which court sentence people to be infected with diseasesm starved of food or devoured by wild animals today. . .Pls tell. . .

Okay, since you want us to discuss hell...can you tell me what exactly is wrong with hell?

It unjust because, people are told they will be punished in very wild and riging fire for eternity just because they refuse to accept stories based on very bad evidence. . .Not because they are bad people but because they refuse to accept stories base on very bad evidence. If this is true then all muslims, hindus, traditional religious people etc that refuse to accept the Jesus story based on very bad evidence will rot in hell for eternity because they refuse to accept the story. . .What kind of justice is this that is predicated first on belief first?. . .The bible already says those that do not believe are condemned already. . .We as humans do not torture people endlessly for their offence. . .They say this god is merciful and loving yet he keeps dishing out justice that makes a pyschopath looks good. . .

Sane people?? What determines sanity? Would you consider President Obama a sane man?

sane as opposed to psychopaths. . .

i went through this topic again and couldn't for the life of me understand what vexdafool was on about. . .

Infernor now means it must be god, eh?. . .This guy is on something else. . .

striktlymi: When ants constitute a problem for you, then you kill them even though you did not create them? Now another question: why then is it wrong for God to kill his own creation if he believes they are constituting a problem?

Because according to the hypothesis, humans are gods children and not his ants. . .Humans are created in his image and he even reasons together with them. . .He came in human form, he loves them and wants to be in a relationship with them. . .Humans are NOT on the same level with ants. . .Will you kill your children when they disobey you?. . .

The ish is not about hell...the ish came about as a result of your post:

The point here is to demonstrate to you that what you have up there is false...man has indeed gone out of his way to be unjust to his fellow man...

Yeah, but i said we do not judge each other in such unjust ways now. . .I gave you an example of hell as an unjust system and sadictic and cruel form of justice that even people that believe in the bible refuse to accept because of how unjust it sounds. . .of course many humans have also done very bad things. . .By justice I am talking about sane people not sadistic humans. . .

striktlymi: Now, by what or whose standards do you adjudge the above to be immoral and a sour taste in the mouth of Justice? Let me ask you this: When you kill an ant, is that immoral or injustice to you?

Standard that we set for ourselves as humans. . .It is unjust for a father to starve his kids or infect them with dieases for acts of disobedience. . .What has an ant got to do with this?. . .It is immoral to go about killing ants in the wild for no just reason, unless if they come into your house and are constituting a problem. . .Else killing an ant that is going about on its own is immoral. . .

To settle the above I have just one question: Have there been times where the laws that were upheld as just and moral in the past are now rendered obsolete, bad and distasteful in the present, all through human history?

Sure, but what has that got to do with the hell wahala that is completely unjust, sadistic and cruel that so many christians are now seeing it for what it is?. . .

striktlymi: Hallo Mazaje,

That is not true...

Let me give you just one of the form of your god's justice that is immoral. . .

Amo 4:6 "I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

Amo 4:7 "I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up.

Amo 4:8 People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

Amo 4:9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

Amo 4:10 "I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.


Please what kind of justice is this?. . .Will you infect your children with diesease and starve them for refusing to obey you. . .Do judges order people to be starved, infected with diseases, devoured by wild animals etc for breaking the law?. . .Many christians find this immoral and dispecable. . ..

The above is demonstrably false.

No it is not, even the hell myth has lost support amongst many christians in the west and other parts of the world. . . The people here do not accept hell as a just punishment for any body any more, so they come up with different theories to say people are not getting what the bible is saying or refuse to accept it outrightly. Many here on nairaland do not accept hell as a just punishment, because it is immoral to them. . .Its is not a just system of punishment. Firstly the bible says that who ever does not believe in Jesus is condemned already. What kind of justice is this that is predicated on belief?. . .I know you will not accept a parent that keeps beating his child all the child's life for disobedience. . .I repeat many christians do not see the hell punishment as a just punishment any more, they see it as unjust, sadistic and cruel and many have rejected it. . .

striktlymi: I guess judges are bunch of sadist because they sentence people to life in prison and ultimately to death...

Maybe we should do away with laws that keep people behind bars for life because it is very cruel...

The problem is that your god is an unjust judge and does not know what justice means. . .We has humans do not go about judging each other in such an unjust way. . .

nmuhd: Part 2 continuation
5)Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer is Course Director and Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at the Department of Cell Biology, School of Medicine, George town University, Washington, DC, USA. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Goeringer stated the following in the presentation of his research paper:“In a relatively few aayahs(Quranic verses) is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis.No such distinct and complete record of human development, such as classification, terminology,and description,existed previously.In most, if not all, instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature.”

The above is false. . .Lets look at what the Koran says . . .

1.Translation by Maulana Muhammad Ali : Then We make the life-germ a clot, then We make the clot a lump of flesh, then We make (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothe the bones with flesh, then We cause it to grow into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

2.Translation by progressive muslims organization : Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.

3.Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali : Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

We can see a lot of error it clearly says that bones appear before flesh but this is false. . .Below are a simple medical reading that shows its false. . .


1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
2.http://www.dcdoctor.com/pages/rightpages_wellnesscenter/pregnancy/fetaldevelopmenmt.htm
3.http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week

davidylan: the deist idea only appears "good" to those who want to eat their cake and have it. i.e. they love the idea of a God who doesnt give them any rules but they still want to get to heaven if one exists.

Which rules exactly?. . .The idea of heaven sounds nice, but many deist do not even believe in heaven, so the claim that they want to go to heaven is false. . .How can they want to go to heaven when they do not believe it exist?. . .Many deist just believe god created and that is all. . .No after life (heaven, reincanations etc)and all of the other ideas men created along side their various religions. . .The deist concept agrees with the reality we see around us. . .

Of all the god ideas men have created, the deist idea remains the best to me. . .I don't have any problem with the deist idea or concept of god. . .It has its problem like all the god ideas but that idea is cool and the best of all the god ideas created by men. .

[quote author=HerexG ]* first making a suggestion that the world was created by several God is absolutely illogical, take some minute and reason that with your powrerful human mind. The world would have been so confused and disorganised if the world were to be created by several gods.[/quote]False the belief that god created the universe came out of the fact that humans create things. . .And most things in our world have a cause and were created. . .We assume or presume god based on what we do as humans. So it follows that the universe was created by many gods if we are to follow that line of reasoning. . .Think of any complicated thing that humans have created, most were not created by one human alone. . .Many humans have come together and created and constructed very organized systems. Take your car for instance, it wasnt built by one man but many men. . .Your house and many other great structures, many man came together and built them. . .Is your car disorganized because many men came together and built it?. . .By the way many people believe in many gods, even the ancient jews also believed in many gods. . .So your argument holds no value. . .

* Though Sir Albert wasn't a Christian but know ye noW that Christianity created a super comprehensive details about the Almighty God. Because the Jews discovered His true nature and identity first doesn't make Him a Jewish God and false.

The ancient jews created a god idea and others helped them to sell it. . .The jewish god is no different than the muslim god or the gods of the hindus and ancient greeks, all are man made ideas tat exist only in the minds and imaginations of those that subscribe and believe in the idea. . .They do not exist in reality. .

slimdiggi: Please dear Nairalanders I need your opinion on this issue...Thanks

is traditional marriage not marriage?. . .

musKeeto: Talking about new covenants, should this apply?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

Or this one. . .

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Ephesians 6:5

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Colossians 3:22

Image123: Do you think anybody should be punished at all? if yes, please suggest three punishments for the people below, thanks.

Amos 4:1 Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.

I asked you if you will consider a parent that kills his children for disobedience a good parent. . .Do we go about killing people that drink? What about those that oppress the poor?. . .

For those that oppress the poor and crush the needy, take away their ability to oppress the poor and oppress them , imprison them with hard labor and make them labor for the poor, they will be humiliated and shamed. . .

For those that drink too much imprison them as well with hard labor. . .If the drink and go about causing nuisance. . .

Do you think or agree that killing people for disobedience is right?. . .Will you kill your kids if they disobey you and go about drinking?. . .

[quote author=I.Joan]Yes! That's why there are exception to all rules because The One who created the rules toys with it sometimes.[/quote]By interference am not referring to some vague concepts like toying with rules, I am talking about a god that exerts influence in the world that can be see just as we read in the bible. . .For example a god that answers prayers. . .Do you believe in a god that answers the prayers of those that believe in him? If yes then where is there no such evidence?

debrief08: People like wahala sha.
You have a good rational man you are concerned about gossip from people who likely wear asoebi to church come home and beat their wives thenn go out and cheat on them without a sigle thought of God.
We like Reigion yet so godless. If all these people who form holy holy in sundays are practical Christians our crime and curroption rates will be less than a quarter.
Leave your husband be, every Nigerian is entitled to freedom of worship or not, you married him as an Athiest, respect his believes.
Most Athiest I know are more rational and moral than most pretentious church goers.
How do people go and start screaming in hospitals distracting the doctor and disturbing other patients?
Must they shout before God hears their prayers? Can't we silently pray as Jesus commands? Didn't the Bible warn us about making prayer an item of public spectaacle?
I have gone to visit people in hospitals and you hear people screaming in the name of prayers from other rooms when nurses caution them they term her a witch and their prayers are disturbing her witchcraft.
Ever have I seen a more delusional bunch.
Am sorry to say

This had me laughing out loud. . .I have witnessed this but it was the doctor, they claimed their powerful prayers were making the doctor uncomfortable. . .One of the women could not even understand why the doctor was telling them to stop shouting. . .I told her that if prayers work why are they in the hospital in the frist place, shouldn't they be at home praying for their ill son and saving cost?. . .The woman still believes i am satan for telling her such. . .The look on her face when I told her that hmmmm. . .

[quote author=I.Joan]Someone educate me on Mind and Consciousness?

I don't understand Deists... Why would you create something and you gonna have nothing to do with it after creation?[/quote]Does the world around you look like the one any god intervenes in?. . .They make their conclusions based on what they observe and see around them. . .

davidylan: So exactly what does the big bang say? What exploded from what?

It doesnt even say anything exploded from anything. . .Just that the universe began to expand from a singularity. . .A singularity is not nothing. . .What the singularity is , scientist claim they do not know yet. . .

kambo: after death ur UNBELIEF ceases to exists! there are no atheists in hell!!.
on the death bed they're already smelling the smoke of the flames already!!
if in doubt ask thomas paine- research how some popular atheist's died.

Thomas paine died a normal death and all the things written aboout him were lies concocted by the christians around him. . .

hisblud: there we go again... Image123 asked you, am just repeating it...read his previous posts... Again what is the shape of sound...what is the form of love...Furthermore, do you agree that without the form of wave, sound still exist?

Can you show that satan exist on its own independent of the nonsense you have been spweing since?. . .I asked you to show that satan exist and you replied by asking if I want to be foolish. .No, I don't want to be foolish, use your foolishiness and show me objective evidence on the existence of satan. .