₦airaland Forum

Made all my wealth when I became an atheist. . .Religion or atheism has nothing to do with wealth anyway. . .Its just LUCK fist of all, connections secondly and after that hard work. . .

snubish: OMG, really blown away!!!
truly, the Quran is not a joke.
just one verse/example and people are going to Google in futility, and putting up silly excuses. someone even requested for a palindrome in multiple languages; how absurd. do you not know that translation of words is subjective even when meaning is retained.
what if they hear of the scientific miracles; in embryology, geology, and astronomy? what silliness will they come up with?
and all these from an illiterate Arab trader about 1500 years ago.
how perfect God is!!!

He, tababa123, said that a palindrome should be provided in any language. . .There is nothing in the quran that was not known or written about by the ancient greek, hindus, jews. . .The ancient greeks for example wrote great thingsabout astronomy that were are just discovering now long before the quran was written. . .The writers of the quran were not illiterate and Mohammed was NOT an illiterate, the claim of Mohammed being an illiterate is just a smoke screen the founders of islam used to cover up for the fact that many of the stories in the bible are found in the quran. . .Mohammed being an illiterate is a muslim narrative meant to beguile others. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Well then, I can't help you any further. You have decided before even attempting to read and understand the stories that they are all different.[/quote]They are all different. . .That is why one account states that the women saw a man inside the tomb, another states that it was two men, another stated that it was an angel etc. . .All writing their own different stufss. . .

I want you to note that if your claim is true, then you have no grounds for claiming a contradiction because a contradiction claim first assumes that the stories are fundamentally the same before seeking to reconcile apparent discrepancies.

The stories are all about a single person, so the contradiction stands. . .

I would also like you to note that if your claim is true then your belief that there was a Jesus Christ is false because there would either be four Jesuses or there is no Jesus.

I said there is a man behind the fable, all for gospels are fables. . .There are many different stories about Mohammed the prophet of islam from very different sources. . .That doesn't take away the possibility of a man being behind the fable Mohammed of the hadith. . .The gospels are fiction. . .All the other authors copied from the gospel of Mark and added their own fables to the original Mark. . . .They made corrections to the gospel of Mark in places where he got the geography and Jewish customs wrong. . The gospel of Mark was not written by a Jew at all. . .

Also note that on the grounds by which you rejected Christ's existence (i.e. based on accounts of his followers), you must also reject all ancient Egyptian, Persian and Greek history because they were written by citizens of the named empires.

As long as the ancient egyptians make extra ordinary claims about extra ordinary characters without any evidence then their tales about those characters will also be relegated to the realm of mythology. . .

This continues to every piece of information for which we can't find an "independent" source.

This also extends to you too. After you are dead and gone, you will essentially not have ever existed unless you keep a diary. Any two people who tell a story of your life must recite the same story to word-perfection or else they are talking of multiple mazajes or no mazaje at all.

If you are going to be a skeptic, let us take it to the fullest.

If after I die people that do not know me and have never meet me come about writing very contradictory stories about me long after I am dead while claiming to know me or where together with me means either they are lying or they do not know what they are talking about. .That is the story of Jesus, we have gospels that were written very long after he died, from people that have never meet him or were together with him, yet the church keeps lying that the gospels were written by his disciples when they werent even written by people that have ever meet him or knew him. . .

mkmyers45: will you come to the north?

I will be in Abuja and Benue. . .

mkmyers45: What does the atheist position offer people? How has it improved your life? Why will it improve others’ lives?

I really need to go and sleep now, am going to Nigeria tomorrow, today since its already morning here, I need to rest now. . .I promise to answer when I get to Lagos. . .Good night abi na good morning sef. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@mazage, What is the existential benefit of Atheism? How does atheism explain existence?[/quote]Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods, it has nothing to do with the explanation of existence because it does not claim to know or explain existence. . . .That is for science, philosophy religions etc . . .

mkmyers45: Yes and maybe a possible new unknown 'god/supernaturate'? etc

Sure. . .As Plateon stated ealier on, science is what will tell humans about the origin of the universe and life not religion. . .

mkmyers45: Ok..so you are agreeing with the fact that maybe in future newfound and strong may come up in support of God's existence?

Which god exactly?. . .God is a loaded term. . .No newfound evidence can come up for allah god for example because mohammed and his cronies created that god. . .No new found evidence can come up for jesus god because we know that god is a creation of the early christians. . .No new evidence for Rah and zues god can come up because those gods are dead already. .No body believes in them any more. . .If you are saying that newfound evidence can come up for the origin of life and origin of the universe then sure its very plausible and possible. . .

mkmyers45: I will advice you open a thread...

The guy don miss road, abeg help am find him way. . .

amor4ce: 1)how is it that almost all the names in Western Biblical versions of the New Testament are different from those in the Old Testament?
2)how is it that the names in the Peshitta Bible versions are different from Roman/Vatican/English/Western versions?
3)how is it that the symbol of the cross (cross of Tammuz) was not used by Israel, was never recorded in the Scriptures, is strange to Jacob's true descendants, while Constantine propagated it?
4)how is it that the true Israelites are blacks but the Christians have been led to believe that they have Amorite features?
5)what happened to all the blacks of the Levant including the Aegean/Egun people of Philistine, the Edomites/Edo of Idumea/Idu, the Jebusites/Jebus, and the people of Judah/Judaea/Whydah/Ida/Ouidah during the period of the Roman persecution [First (66-73 CE), Second (115-117 CE) and Third (132-135 CE) [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars]Jewish-Roman wars[/url] and the Samaritan Revolts of (484-572 CE), destruction of the second Temple in 70 CE] if not that the Greco-Romans massacred them?
6)which spirit do Christians call on when the Redeemer has mentioned clearly that He will gather back his scattered sheep and fill them with His Spirit?
7)why apparitions/visions, from Caucasians, of heaven, hell, Mary and the likes, are racist in that blacks and indigenous Negro names are not featured? (don’t blacks also go to heaven?). No wonder TuPac sang ‘I wonder if heaven got a ghetto’ – note that the posthumous producers of the video heavily added Zeus/Christian/deceptive elements to it.
8 )how is it that Christians accepted the lie that Abraham and his descendants are white?
9)how is it that the spirits they hear from either during prophecy, prayer and otherwise have not told them, especially those who call themselves born again, what the Redeemer’s true name is (John 18:37)?
10)how is it that the spirits they hear from either during prophecy, prayer and otherwise have not taught them, especially those who call themselves born again, to properly understand the Bible (John 12:40)?
11)since there are so many Christian denominations with so many interpretations of the Bible, can there be more than one Holy Spirit?
12)what happened to the Israelite tribe of Dan in Revelations 7:4-8?

[url=http://yemitom./2012/07/15/e%e1%b9%a3u-is-the-true-name-of-the-rock-of-ages/]Èṣú is the true name of the Rock of Ages[/url]

Who be this one again?. . You miss road?. . .

mkmyers45: Some cases? Isn't that an agnostic stand?

Yeah I said in some cases because sometimes things like ignorance have to be factored in. . .And in other cases the lack of evidence is not so clear cut. . .

mkmyers45: Is absence of proof the proof of absence?

In some cases it is. . .Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . .

musKeeto: Great questions, mkmyers. Wonderful answers, mazaje. I’m really enjoying this thread.

@Mazaje: Since you require evidence to believe in a God, wouldn't that make you agnostic not atheist? Pardon me, sometimes these terms get me confused.

I am an atheist, I do not believe in all the gods of man made religions. . .They are all man made simple. . .

Secondly, do you believe in souls, spirituality, ghosts?

No, I do not believe in them. . .I do not believe I have a soul that lives after me when I die. . .No evidence to show that human consciousness survives bodily death. . .As for spirituality I don't exactly know what its all about. . .Spirit. . .Its all a myth. . Ghost. . same all a myth. . You only live once, once you die thats it. . .Slept in a grave yard back in Nigeria because I wanted to see ghost in action because of the stories I heard. The only ghost I saw were the plenty mosquitoes that messed my body up those nights. . .

mkmyers45: what if the person tells you a secret you alone is aware of?

Personally, I don't have a secret that I alone am aware of. .Usually, one or two friends always know my closest secret, my girl friend etc. . .So I will assume the person got it from one of my friends that knows about it or my girlfriend. . But since we are speaking hypothetically. .I will like to know how he got to know about it. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If you honestly do not know, then you also[b] cannot[/b] know if any body is speculating[/quote]No body has ever provided any evidence to show that his or her mythology and hypothesis is true. . .You believe that Yahweh created the universe right?. . .Provide clear cut evidence. . .By clear cut evidence i mean evidence like a video recording of Yahweh creating the universe. . .Provide evidence that what ever created the universe did it alone and speaks the human language for example. . .Clear cut evidence please. . .I don't want baseless speculations or pointing to aged long mythical writings. . .Clear cut evididence. . .

In other words, life has no meaning. Just give it whatever meaning you like

Sure. . .Life has no meaning, people ascribe what ever meaning they chose to give to their lives. . .

In other words, good and evil are not real define them any way you choose

Good and evil in the real world we live in are defined by humans in what ever way they chose and in their time in history. . .When slavery was defined as a good thing long ago, your god was its advocate. . .When genocide was a good thing your god told people to burn an enitire town with its inabitants and sacrifice them as a burnt offering unto him. . .Men chose what is good and what is evil. . .That is why polygamy is good in some societies and bad in others. . .That is how the real world operates. .

In the same manner, there is no true purpose for existence, give it whatever purpose you like.

Sure to the Hindu the purpose of live is to each nirvana, to the muslim is to be the best slave of allah, to the chirstian to massage Yahweh's ego etc. . .What ever you chose to make of it. . . .

As a christian, the answer to the above four questions can be found in God. I know my origin,meaning,morality and purpose.

And the christian bubble of delusion matters ONLY to the christian, non christians have nothing to do with it. . .Your origin is NOT the same with that of a Muslim or a Hindu, my Hindu friend here reincarnated, he used to be a butterfly in his previous life, the meaning and purpose of his life is to achieve nirvana. . and his morality comes from the laws set out by Vishunu the god of the snakes. . .

You on the other hand (if you were ever truly a christian) moved from the place of knowledge to the place of willful ignorance

This is why the bible calls the atheist a fool.

it is not an insult

Knowlwdge of what exactly?. . .

mkmyers45: Suppose, hypothetically, that you met with someone who knew nothing about you except your first name. And this person was able to accurately name deceased family members, dicuss in detail how they died, and describe intimate personal details about your relationship with these people (including people you aren’t consciously thinking about). How would you explain this?

It has never happened to me, but if it did there are many possibilities. . .It could be that someone told him about me, after all it is not all the people that know me that I know. . .Its possible he heard about me, or someone told him somethings about me and my family. .So many people that employ this trck have been exposed many times. . .And all the time, they got their information from other people that know their subject or victims. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@Mazaje,
How does The atheist answer:

What is our origin?[/quote]I can't speak for other atheist, I can only speak for my self. . .I do not know the origin of the universe of the origin of life. .The fact is no one knows. . .Every body is just speculating. . .

What is the meaning of life?

The meaning of life is what ever meaning you chose to give it. . .

What does it mean to be good or evil?

Good or evil is always determined by the society, surrounding culture and period in history. . .We have discussed about this so many times. . .

What is the purpose of our existence?

What ever purpose you chose to assing to your existence becomes your purpose. . .For the muslim his purpose is to serve allah as a loyal slave, to the hindu the purpose of life is to reach nirvana. . .To the christian it might be something else. . The purpose of life is what ever you chose to ascribe to it. . .

mkmyers45: Ok, In your view where does Language,Art,Music and Religion come from?

Languages evolved. . .Human beings didnt start out speaking languages. . .They developed it. English didn't exist as a language 5 thousand years ago it started out as Anglo-Saxon language in the 5th century AD and later evolved to what we have today. 5 thousand years ago there was nothing like the hausa language, people had not developed or formed it yet. Numbers did not exist at a point in human history people had to develop it . . .Humans developed writing, numbers, symbols etc. . .Some languages existed for thousands of years and died. . .Same goes for art and music they were all developed over time, there was a time they didn't exist because humans had not developed the concept. . .

Religions were also developed to help people answer the pesky questions surrounding life and its many complexities. . .People started worshiping things like moutians, sun, moon, stars etc. . .later to graven images, idols, animals, to invisible beings. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Ok, first we know that wherever they were, they were definitely not in Galilee also the gospel of Matthew doesn't specifically say that the message was for 11 disciples exclusively (if you are going to stress over words, do it properly)[/quote]It does. .It even stated that the 11 went and meet him in the meeting place in Galilee and he appeared to them. .

Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Ah so that's where they were! Glad we've finally found them in Jerusalem.

Thats according to Luke;s gospel, according to Matthews gospel account the headed striaght to Galilee and it was there that he appeared to them. . .The gospel accounts are both VERY different. . .If you add themn up then you form your own gospel and state thing non of them is actually talking about. . .

Why? Because He chose to do it that way.

False, because the two accounts are completely different. . .According to Matthew they were to head up to Galilee to meet him up and they did, according to Luke he appeared to them in Jerusalem. .Very different accounts. . .

There are a thousand and one reasons why some would doubt. You can't judge people's reactions based on your own biases.

If he had appeared to them before and they had seen him, eaten the food he gave them, remember in Luke it says he spoke with them provided evidence that he had risen and even gave them food. . .It doesn't make sence that they will go up to Galilee where he had passed message for them to meet up with him, see him and doubt after they were together with him before. . .The two accounts are completely different. . .And do not add up. . .

I actually cited the bible verse

You did no such thing, you are only forming your own gospel that has nothing to do with is written in Mathew or Luke.

No they are all telling the same story, each telling the part of the story he knows.

False, as such their accounts are all different, according to one of them when the woman entered the tomb she saw a man, the other said she saw an angle, the other said she saw two angles etc. . .The story does not add up if you look at it objectively, according to Matthew they were to head striaght to Galilee from where ever they were to meet with Jesus at a place he chose, they did and he appered to them. . Accoding to Luke, he appread to them for the first time in a room in Jerusalem. . .

Empty speculations from you. Some doubted and some did not. If some had seen Him before while some were seeing him for the first time, you would have this same effect.

We are talking about the 11 disciples and Luke says all saw him in Jerusalem. . .Mathew was very clear that it was ONLY the 11 that went up to the meeting place he assiged for them to meet in galilee. . .According to Luke they meet him, some dounted and he proved to them that he was raised from the dead after which he gave them food to eat. . .Seeing him for the second time after spening time with him in a meeting place he had told them to go and meet up with him will not make any of them to doubt him. . .So another fail on your side. . .

There is a saying that goes thus: "Before you begin to read between the lines, first of all read what is written on the lines."

Perhaps Mark's account will help clear things a bit:

5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed.
6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him.
7 But go, tell His disciples—and Peter—that He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him, as He said to you.”
8 So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.
14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 16:5-18

Hope it adds up now.

This is Marks account that is completely different from that of Matthew and Luke. . .Re read the accounts of Matthwe and Luke again. . .What he told them in the accounts of Mark and Luke are all very different. . .They don;t even come close. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]In fulfilment of my promise, here goes:



Okay Mazaje, to truly understand the events following Christ resurrection we have to read all accounts of the four Gospels and the book of acts and second Corinthians then we can pick up clues and piece them together.
Another thing would like you to note it's that those who recorded Scripture did not necessarily record Scripture sequentially, also the original manuscripts were not broken into chapters and verses as we have them today in the Bible.it was one long document.
That said, let us peace the story together. What was the sequence of Jesus appearances?[/quote]It doesn't really matter. . . .

Acts 1:3 tells us that Jesus spent 40 days between his resurrection and his ascension. Let us now draw a timeline.

Day 1.
Jesus appears to Mary and tells her to tell the disciples to meet him at Galilee Matt 28:10 (note Jesus does not say exactly when he will need them at Galilee all he says is "go to Galilee and I will appear there" )
now Jerusalem to Galilee is quite a distance my approximation is that it will take several days probably a week to get there with the kind of transport system they had at the time so it is not possible for Matthew 28:16 to have happened on the same day.

Firstly, the gospel does not state the location of the disciples. Secondly, Jesus told the lady to tell the 11 of his disciples after he resurrected according to Matthew to go to Galilee and meet him at a meeting point and he will appear to them. .Luke says he appeared to them in Jerusalem. . .Remember after resurrecting from the dead the first thing he told the lady according to Matthew was to hurry and tell his disciples to head to Galilee. . .But Luke says he appeared to them in Jerusalem. . .It doesn't even mention Jesus telling them to go to Galilee. . .Matthew says he told them to go to Galiee so that he will appear to them there, Luke says he appeared to them in a room in Jerusalem, why will he tell them to go to Galilee so that he will apper to them there then go and appear to them in Jerusalem. . .If you read both accounts you will see that it was his first time of apearing to them because while some of them were estatic and happy others were doubtful and did not believe. . .If he has appeared to them different times as you are trying to have us believe, they will not be doubtful since they had already seen him before. . .No matter how you look at it , it just doesnt add up. . .

Later that same day Jesus appears to 2 disciples on the way to Emmaus which is quite close to Jerusalem. Luke 24:13.
After Christ appeared to them, they rose up and immediately went back to Jerusalem and what they told the disciples is very profoundthat not only had Christ risen but also that he had appeared to Peter. While they were yet speaking Christ appeared amongst them ( this story tallies with Paul's account in 1Corinthians 15:6)

So what has Luke's different account go to do with Matthew?. . . .

Eight days later the disciples were in a room together this time Thomas was with them John John 20:26(note the Bible doesn't say which city they where settled in, may guess is probably they were now in Galilee by this time)
this is the second time Christ appears to his disciples

This is your own gospel. . .It is your own making. .

Some days pass, Peter decides to go fishing and the Bible says he goes fishing in the sea of Tiberias. John21:1(now Tiberias is a small town on the shore of the sea of Galilee. this time we're quite sure that the disciples are in Galilee)this is where Jesus asks Peter the famous "do you love me? feed my sheep" three times.
John records that this is the third time that Jesus appears to them. John 21:14

John's account has nothing to do with what was written in Matthew or Luke, the two authors were writting two very different tales with very different details. . .

I believe Matthew 28:16 happened after this time most likely at about the time of the Ascension. And it's possible it was 500 people that witnessed it as Paul said.

They wouldn't have doubted him if he had appeared to them other times before, according to Mathew they doubted clearing signifying that it was his first appearance. . .

That's the story of Christ. I think you should read it as an account from five different narrators and not as two independent storytellers. the is no contradiction in the story of Christ's resurrection.

If I do what you are doing then I will end up forming my own gospel account. . .

mkmyers45: Ok, i had to lol on this

What do you think of Astrology and Ability to See the Future?

Nothing much, they are just repetative patterns people developed over time to figure out common events or predict the outcomes of events. . .Sometimes they are right other times they are wrong. . .

mkmyers45: @Mazaje What do you think about evidence-based juju/voodoo and black magic?

They are make belief, what we call juju are mostly tricks, or occurrence we do not have proper explanations for . . .They do NOT exist in reality they are also mythical tales and narratives that thrive on people's ignorance, fear and gossips. . .I carried out my own personal investigation for 8 months, missed a semester during my university days in Sweden because I stayed back in Nigeria trying to unravel the truth of the matter. . .There was nothing I did not do to test the effectiveness of the juju claims, spent like 3 different nights in side a grave, visited different jazz men for different charms. . Love portion charms, gambling charms, etc. .Non of them worked. . .I desecrated juju shrines and temples hoping that the jazz men will harm me, beat some of them up because of the stories i grew up hearing, used to hear myths like someone slapped a jazz man and his hands were swollen for weeks, after which they began to rot away or after slapping a jazz man a person was unable to bring down his hands and suffered excruciating pains etc. . .I wanted to see it in action, even it it mean me dying as a result I was just ready. . .I just wanted to see the supernatural in action because I had lost faith in my religion and in god. . .Just wanted to see something so I went the juju way. .

One of the most feared and revered among the juju men i beat up(many tales about him dissapearing and appearing all over the place, they said the last guy that slapped him died 3 days after wards) told me that I was never going back to Europe again, he vowed to turn me into a frog . .My mum went and beg him crying, he threw her out and i still slapped him after wards. . . I just wanted to see the juju in action even ii it means harming me. I did not care. I just wanted to see it. I afrronted different fulani people beliving that they will use juju to harm me because of the tales and stories i grew up hearing about them and how strong they were when it comes to jazz and juju. I affronted the ones with the most charms who parade themselves as stong juju fulani men. People normally stay away from them but i affronted them looking for their trouble. We stole the cow of one of them who went and called the police instead of using juju to harm us according to the stories I heard about him then, It was crazy the things I did then. . . They actually tried to harm me but they used conventional methods. . .They tried to use bows, knives etc to attack me. . .

I was crazy then and I did so many crazy things. . .Juju is just make belief that relies on fear and rumors to sustain it. . .Juju is NOT real. . .If juju were real we will not be speaking english and bearing names, like john, slivia, nancy, jane, ann, victor etc. . White people would have been speaking igbo, and answering names like olayinka, chinedu, osaze, bello etc. . .Juju begins and ends with them say dem say. . .Those that look real are either as a result of majic tricks(Nigerians and Africans in general forget that there is a thing called magic which involves tricks). If magicians like Daren Brown, Jame Randi, David Copperfield and Richard Angle live in Nigeria they would have been worshiped and revered as the strongest juju men on earth. . .These white men I have mentioned do magic tricks that NO juju man can ever do. .They do it in public, they walk on water, levitate, fly around. . .Behead themselves. . They do INCREDIBLE things. .But its all magic and when they reveal their tricks which some of them have. . You will only laugh at their crativity. . .So juju is NOT real. . .Its all make belief. . .We all grew up hearing these juju stories, and they are constantly drummed into our ears. . .A lie repeated all the time later becomes the truth. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I have more books in my library today than there probably were in that era, 2000 years from now it's likely that all the books in my library would have been lost. So how come it is not possible that only one document relating an event managed survive? arguing from silence is unhelpful.[/quote]I have stated my point, you call it argument from silince. . OK. . No wahala. . .Let's agree to disagree. . .

Well, my mother has been healed of breast cancer a few years ago. That's a miracle there for you. it's just too bad you refuse to believe it possible.

People get healed of bre[i]a[/i]st cancer all the time, so not a miracle. . .

All I have done is to show you the possible errors that can occur in translation that you choose to reject it as a possibility is not my problem.

When it comes to translation the best possible words that carry the best meaning to the word that is to be translated and the context in which it is used is the criteria that is used. . .The word that carries the best meaning in the context father and as such father is what is used. . .Ancestor is another meaning of the word as you said but its application makes it far fetched and does not carry the best meaning, if it did it would have been used. . .You are just throwing things up the wall to find what ever it is that will stick. . .The bible translators truly know the best word and they chose it. . .You are the one that is going off borad looking for far fetched explanations and possibilities. . .

Actually you don't know what you're claiming for sure. You are arguing from silence, you have no way of knowing if the documents available to us are original or copies. In fact, the more I read the gospels, the more it appears to me the these were different writers narrating the same story from different vantage points.
If this was a composed religious document as you seem to be trying to claim, then we would have noticed a conscious effort to synchronise the stories. Besides the gospel of John is written in such a way that suggests that he was an eyewitness to the events recorded.

I don't see it that way. . .Gospel of John written as an eye witness account?. . .Can you show how?. . .

mkmyers45: Ok so you agree fully with me them ok lets move on.....

What is your strongest argument in favor of Universal atheism?

I do not support or advocate universal atheism. . .I don't want every body to be an atheist. . .Not at all. . .I only come here because this is the biggest online forum in Nigeria, I come here to let Nigerians who happen to be overtly religious, deluded and stup[i]i[/i]d when it comes to the matter of religion know that their beliefs are mere beliefs and NOT facts, sometimes I point to them that their beliefs have nothing to do with reality. . .I point to them that there beliefs are not as real or do not agree with reality the way the proffer them. . . The fact that I have a list of reasons why I do not believe in any god does not imply that I am forcing anyone to stop believing or that I want people to stop believing. I know what I went through psychologically when I stopped believing. I only share my reasons so that others can see that there are plenty of good reasons not to believe in any god. It is a rational and viable alternative. I've stated many times that private belief is not my concern. But in Nigeria belief are NOT private and I am always in Nigeria. . .If Nigeria was like England or France where I can freely practice my atheism, I will never be on nairaland posting on the religious section constantly. . .I have also said many times that I respect the rights of others to believe whatever they choose to believe. But the problem is they don't respect my own right to disbelieve their fairy tales and delusions. . .You need Jesus, you are an animal for not believing in Jesus, or you need Allah and you are less than an animal for not believing in him. . .Why can't they just let us be?. . .

I am not for universal atheism. . . .I am for freedom and right to believe what ever you want to believe. . .Nigerians unfortunately do NOT understand that. so I come here debate with the best theist here and they know very well that I know what I am talking about and their beliefs are NOTHING but mere beliefs. . .I have shown that to them many times. . .Just that they are too indoctrinated to accept but they tacitly understand when ever they engage me. . .

tbaba1234: I guess it is time the thread closes....

Thanks to everyone who contributed, safe....

. . . .Safe. . .

vedaxcool: Mazaje keeps finding an excuse to avoid the truth!

Which truth?. . .

tbaba1234: Give me a tamil palindrome that the vowels and consonants spell the same backward and forward... Just like arabic, English and thousands of the worlds languages....

if i give you a Quranic Syllabic palindrome, we can compare..... like for like...

stop giving excuses...

Another bogus premise. . . .Because of the way the language is structured syllabus is what they use. . .You can not give me a palindrome in arabic based on syllabus because of the way the arabic alphabets are structured. . .palindrome in tamil are determined in a different way, but it doesn't mean they arent palindromes. . .

Νοσώ. Σύ ος ει ίαμα, Ιησού, σώσον - "I am ill. You are a healer, Jesus, save me". . .Here is another short prayer in greek that is a palindrome. . .

Did i hear you say nothing can match what is written in the quran?. . .

tbaba1234: Mazaje, I am inviting you back to the truth, back to what you abandoned when you were 13 years old ..... I felt sad when i read your story to atheism. Maybe we could have been tag teaming an atheist here....

Thanks but no thanks. .Every body believe his or her own religion to be the only "truth", even in islam some sects believe they own the truth above others. .Sunnis believe shias are wrong and vice versa. . .Its all a bubble, once you are indoctrinated in it, it becomes your only truth and reality. . .What you call the truth is ONLY relative to you and those that have been indoctrinated to accept it since childhood mostly. . .So keep you "truth". I don't need it. . .

vedaxcool: Lol! take up the challenge why all this invectives? try again, start singing First you don't succeed, . . . Try again, Try again

I have taken up the challenge, I gave him a Tamil palindrome that matches what was written in the quran, but he refused to accpet because he says the style is different. . . . . .Languages styles are all different so what exactly is he on about?. . .

vedaxcool: This thread deserves front page, intellectual response to which even cheers confessed he was given a "hard time". atheist why the excuses, truly if I were in any of you shoes i will silently walk away! and save face, You were given a criteria to which you have failed to match yet you are behaving like the proverbial child who when he failed an exam claimed the standards were too high, yes the standards of the Qur'an is to high to be match, One common character most Nigerians display whether atheist, deist,christian or muslim etc. is the unique ability to lie in the face of clear truths!

The person that lied here is Tbaba123. . He lied clearly on this thread about the structure of the tamil palindrome until i called him out on it. . .His challenge is a bogus one. . .The palindrome he is talking about when translated to the english he threw around does not qualify so I really do not know what you are on about here. . .languages differ in style so his challenge is bogus. .

tbaba1234: excuses, excuses, excuses

Subhanallah



Point proven....

Allahuakbar...

Calling to those who reject faith is like a herdsman calling to things that hear nothing but a shout and a cry: they are deaf, dumb, and blind, and they understand nothing... (Surah 2:171)

You are not making any sense, yet you came insisting that people are rejecting your faith. . . .The same nonsense you are spewing here was writing in the bible hundreds of years before your quran was written about those that refuse to accept the christian faith. . .

tbaba1234: If you give me a true tamil palindrome that spells with the vowels and the consonants and makes sense then we are in business... but there are very rare

Lets not be going round in circles. Let me make my final point here, am tired of repeating my self. . .Palindromes in tamil are not deduced the same way in arabic. . .Just the same way that writing styles are not the same in arabic and english, in arabic words are written from right to left while in english they are written from left to right. . .That fact that the words are written differently does not mean that they are not words. . .Its the same thing as you telling me(an arabic man) to write the word for orange (in english) in my language and after i provided it you reject it because the writing styles are different. . .You begin to bring excuses like english writes from left to right as such the arabic word is invalid. . . .No palindrome can be brought in the same style because languages vary in styles. . .