₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, you my friend are one funny dude. My point is simple, to calculate linear motion and speed, we assume a flat surface.
However, knowing you and how unreasonable you can be, you'll probably ask me for a specific flat-earth equation. to which I'll equally ask you to provide a specific spherical earth equati[/quote]Here we go again. . .This is what you said. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]At a point in history, the earth was believed to be flat. They were wrong. Yet it didn't stop them from building houses and vehicles based on the calculations of a flat earth.[/quote]Where did the vehicle makers ever told you that they used the calculations of a flat earth in building their vehicles?. . .Which builder ever told you that he used a flat earth calculation to build his house?. . .You made those claims to deal with it. . .

Read my statement again, I said that gravity was thought to be a force. I am not talking about a time before gravity was discovered, I am talking about what gravity was believed to be.
We have moved from understanding gravity as merely f=mg to f=Gm₁m₂/r²

Speed of falling bodies were never accurately calculated without taking into account accerlaration due to gravity so you fail. . .

Lol, you need to think before blindly accusing people of lying

Again you lied and i pointed it out to you. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]At a point in history, the earth was believed to be flat. They were wrong. Yet it didn't stop them from building houses and vehicles based on the calculations of a flat earth.[/quote]What are the calculations of a flat earth, where are the equations of a flat earth that buildings and vehicles were based up on. . .Provide pls lets see. . .

At another point in history, scientists believed that gravity was a force. They were wrong. Yet it didn't stop them from accurately calculating the speed of falling bodies.

When was that?. . .The speed of falling bodies were only accurately calculated after gravity was discovered. . .Try another lie. . .

I need you to think man, think!

It is not about winning an argument, it is about learning. Besides, sitting back and claiming ignorance while resorting to mockery what you admit you don't know only paints you in poor light.

You need to think and stop telling lies. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-31WIjpRj9A

Wahala dey be that. . . .

Deep Sight: No: God is inferred from the fact that the universe demonstrably had a beginning. It would be unscientific, you know, to assert that the massive motion of the big b ang occured without a trigger.

The universe having a beginning means the universe had a beginning and thats all. . .NO one knows know what triggered it. . .Claiming you do remains a LIE. . .And ascribing qualities to what YOU think triggered it is even worse. No one knows what triggered it, people can only put forth their own speculations and thats all. .The god idea remains a speculation and god ideas like yahweh , allah and vishnus are obvious myths cos men created thos ideas. . . .

MacDaddy01: It is like asking me to describe myself to someone whi has been blind from birth. You mad?


Why dont you describe God for me?

Deepsight should tell us what his god is and how we can get to know its real as an entity on its own independently. . .

Deep Sight: Just like your thoughts, no?

Do you thoughts exist?

Since you cannot demonstrate your thoughts to me, cold i rightly conclude that your thoughts do not exist?

Please demonstrate to me that you have thoughts.How do I know you are not an automaton?

Thougts exist and there is a definate way of analyzing them, we all have thoughts and every human being agrees to that. . Gods do NOT have definate evidence for their existence as such people do NOT all agree to their existence. . .Your god is YOUR own MAKING and you have labelled him as oneness of infinity, anonny's god is the mythical construct of the ancient jews and the greeks. . .Thoughts are real, gods are not and thats is the major difference. . .Actually god's exist only in thoughts. . .You can only think about oneness of infinity and ascribe to it what ever qualities you chose to ascribe to it. . .outside your thougts it does not exist in reality. . .

Deep Sight: The point is simply the clear fact that claiming that God needs to be tangible in other to exist is a faulty claim: Wwe are showing you intangible things that obviously exist, such as thoughts.

They claim god is tangible. . .He speaks to them, appears to some of them etc. . .The idea that god is intangible is just a LIE apologist use to push their various gods into the realm of the unknown. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol really? but in logicboy's world, numbers do not even exist.

Anyway i didn't ask him for color, I asked him for the tangible measurement of the "thought of color blue."

Let me give you your own assignment since you seem to share the same worldview as him. Now Plaetton, think of roast beef. Please be so kind as tell us the exact tangible units of measurement of that "roast beef thought". best evidence would be to provide us with the thought so that we can see it, taste it, touch it, smell it etc. Just hold the thought in your hand and take a picture if you may.[/quote]You see the clear dishonesty and lies on display. . . .Thoughts do not come close to your mythical god hypothesis that is why you are playing this games. . .YOU claim god speaks to you, can you record one of your conversatiosn with him and play for us?. . .You claim god performs miracles, can you bring a CLEAR CUT example of your god performing miracles so that we will see and believe like your god healing an amputee and restoring the amputees limbs back. . .You are the ones making all these claims but when asked to substantiate the myths you are parroting around you run to the silly season biting your very long tail. . .

Ihedinobi: Awesome, bro. However, not to lose our audience's attention, God is Love. You'll find that many conundrums perceived about God are solved by that understanding.

This is the definition of love according to the bible. . . . 1 Corinthians 13
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. . . .

Here is what the same bible says about Yahweh. . .


The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!Nahum 1:2

Nigerians and their wahala. . .I have stated this time and time again. . .Violence is a part of our society. . .Its is part of our DNA. Until we eschew violence then women can keep crying day and night, but the problem will never be sloved. . .The same women that complain about domestic violence are the same women that beat up their house helps, their younger ones and also encourage their elder children to beat up their younger ones all the time when they offend them. . .In our schools we are thought that violence is the only way when a person commits an offence, when a junoir student offends a senoir student the only answwr is violence, a students offends a teacher same thing, violence, when a younger brother/sister offends an elder brother/sister the answer is violence many parents encourage their elder siblings to discipline the younger ones with acts of violenve. . .Child offends parents, violence. . .Violence permeates our society. . .We encourage it every where. How do we expect it not to manifest in our homes. . .The society has thought us right from school and from our homes that if any subordinate offends you beat him/her up, we carry the same violence to our homes and offices. . .why won't there be excessive violence when the society teaches us that it is the only way to solve our problems when our subordinates offend us?. . . .The same women that grew up beating their house helps, younger brothers, younger sisters and younger cousins will come on nairaland and be forming "my husband beat me up". . .When you your self have been contributing to the circle of violence that is rife in our society all your lives. . .Make wuna carry go jare. . .

makdastar: I have been living with my elder brother for some years now, and he really hasn't been an easy person to live with.


I don't mind the fact that he beats me, along with the children, but sometimes he canes his wife too, after caning us.

. . . .Laugh wan kill me for here. . .No be small thing. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, video evidence of you thinking of the color blue will do.......thanks[/quote]I am not making any assertion buy YOU are, so deal with it, you claim to know that the universe was created by on single entity, a clear cut evidence to show that you know what you are talking about will do. . .Present the clear cut evidence instead of running around biting your long tail. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]And you know this how?[/quote]Clear cut miracles like the sun standing still, men walking on water, men causing a tree to dry up, healing of amputees, raising people from the dead etc. . .

lol, when you talk about a harmonized mind, you are really talking about one mind. A mind is not a measurable physical entity, therefore the only way we can infer multiple minds is if we observe conflict. In the absence of conflict, we have one mind.

One mind how?. . .Differnt indiciduals come with different ideas harmonize it and make it one around a particular purpose, your evidence to show that the universe was not as a result of many creators is what?. . .If humans can come around a particular purpose and create many magnificent things that are in order what stops many creators from doing same to the universe. . .

......perhaps you want to tell me exactly what kind of evidence you require, that will satisfy you.

Like a video evidence of Yahweh alone creating the universe. . .That is a concreate evidence. . .

Now, the evidence I percieve you are asking for is similar to the kind asked by the pharisees when they said "show us a sign". If God can create the entire universe, then surely, He can speak. .....but I know you won't accept this, neither will you accept it if I told you that God speaks to me so I'll ask you an equally unreasonable question.

Actually the bible says god used to address the ancient jews through public speech. . .he stays in the clouds and they could even build a tower to reach him before he got scared anc confused their languages, now we have space ships that have flown way above the mythical tower of babel and we still can't find any yahweh any where. . .How does god speak to you, does he speak to you the way you speak to another human being?. . .What was the last thing he told you?. . .

I hold that you are not capable of thought. Could you please provide scientific evidence that you can think about the color blue?

Let us play the reductionist game and see how far it gets us. I will only provide evidence for you that the God can speak in human language in the way you are asking if you can prove to me that you possess a mind. Show me measurable physical evidence of your mind.

Another dishonest escapist tactic. . . you know very well that this nonsense of yours won't fly with me, you brought up the mind argument i never did so deal with it. . .If you have an audio of your god's voice then prsent it so that we will know that your god speaks the human language or be prepared to be mocked and ridiculed when you keep making wild assertions with out providing any evidence for them. . .What can be asserted without evidence needs to be quickly dismissed without evidence. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]As I said earlier, evidence depends on how it is read (that's the point you missed). If you don't believe in miracles, there is no need telling you about them. Ridiculing miracles simply because you don't believe in them only serves to paint you as silly.[/quote]I have no position on miracles, I CAN believe in miracles if they are shown or can be backed up with evidence. . .What I have come to understand is that miracles like the ones stated in the bible happen only in the pages of story books. . .The claims of miracles around I have come to discover are all bogus or misleading. . .Clear cut miracles do NOT happen. . .

If you agree that the universe is created and has an intelligence behind it, then it can only be one mind as multiple conflicting minds wouldn't result in order. Secondly, it wouldn't be contradictory to His person if the creator of the universe chose to communicate in human language. Also, He would deserve worship even if He didn't necessarily demand it.

Here we go again with the same lie. . .You keep using what we know as humans to infer that there must be a cause for the universe. . .What we know as humans is that multiple minds can come together to create a VERY orderly system. . .Take the Air Bus A380 jumbo jet, it was created by many minds and it is an example of a system that is in perfect order. . .Same goes for your computer and your mobile phone all are as a result of many different minds working together in harmony. . .I am asking you to provide evidence that the creator of the universe speaks the human language and you are coming up with this drivel?. . .

MacDaddy01: This is good, Anony is getting hammered left, right and center.


The beginning of the end. I always said it, your escape tactics will come to an end whenatheists stop playing nice. Even houdini could not escape from a buried coffin 6 foot deep.

The theistic especially the christian argument is that the bible is the word of the creator of the universe, in fact the bible has a detailed account of how the world was created in 7 days. . .How man was created from sand and how woman was created from the ribs of man, how different languages came about because their god was scared humans will see him hiding in the sky and confused their tongue when they decided to build a tower that will reach him up in heaven . . .If that is true then there must be evidence to show that the biblical claims are true. . .What does the evidence show?. . .Even the christians with the knowledge to all these events mentioned in the bible keep saying that they are allegories and are not supposed to be taken literally. On the other hand we have spohist like anony that will never use the bible and what it says about creation to support his points, instead he will prefer to be dancing all over the place with the statement that the universe was created by god and that is evidence for god. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You should really read my argument in full.

The evidence provided for God is creation itself. I would like you to note that in matters of evidence, evidence is only as valuable as it's explanation. I.e. a fact is only evidence depending on how it is read.

I look at the intelligence in the universe and say that it is evidence of an intelligent being, you look at the same universe and say that it is not.
The question now arises: How else do you explain the intelligent order of the universe?

Edit: Never mind, I have just seen your explanation.[/quote]Evidence for what we see around is evidence for the environment. . .Its funny how when religious people talk to them selves they use things like miracles and answered prayers as evidence of god in their lives, when aruing with atheist they quickly abandon that cause and start with the god is the creator of all things. . .Mr anony assuming the universe has a creator pls what is your evidence to show that the entire universe was created by one entity alone, that speaks the human language and wants people to worship it? Go ahead and show it with credible evidence, if you point to the mythical writings of ancient men then be prepared to me ridiculed and mocked for not knowing what you are talking about. . .

tbaba1234: I hope logicboy in real life is different from the online personality because that person is a case....

Anony strikes me as a calm guy even though many times, the premises for his arguments are inherently flawed. I think that will be a good discussion...

Is there anyone i would like to meet?

Anyone that can offer a good conversation about his/her faith or lack of it will make a good conversation... From experience, Atheists usually make better discussions than ideological Christians (no disrespect), But you have to have some kind of logical foundation before you start throwing bible verses..... That is why i think anony is better than most even though his arguments are pretty weak.

For the "career islam bashers" (you know yourselves), i will love to dismantle all your arguments but i don't think i would like those conversations. I would rather tell you how incredible Islam is, and how it makes perfect sense than have wholly defensive discussions.

Great to see that people are getting together through this forum...

Safe.

I will love to meet you some day and have a simple discussion with you with regards to religion. You are a very cool person. . . .

The authors of the gospels are unknown. . .Acutally most of the authors of the books in bible are unknown. . .From genesis to revelation. .

Delafruita: just like i said,you didnt read it well or perhaps you didnt comprehend it.you and i know i am not a religious person.am not trying to promote a miracle but this happened to my very own papa.i have thought of every logical explanation and even inquired from consultants and they were all unaminously in agreement that his sinusitis couldnt been cured without a surgery.he consulted specialists in about 4 countries.he'd get temporary relief of about 1 or 2 months and then it would be back in full swing.according to the german doctor,the surgery was meant to clear all the bacteria in his nostrils all the way to his larynx or pharynx(cant remember the details).his nostrils were to be made wider hence the reconstruction.they had already given him a list of things to avoid eating and drinking.however,since his trip to makkah,he has been completely cured like never before.he doesnt adhere to any diets and for the first time since i have known him,he hasnt taken medication for almost 1year

Hope you know that some deseases recede and dissappear own their own even without treatement. . .Here is an article from the NY times that states that even the ultimate cancer that people believe are permanent and have no cure sometimes vanish on its own without treatment in some people and in some cases. . .I know a woman in a village in Benue state whose breat cancer vasnished on its own in 2010, it just vanished on its own when every body wrote her off. . .I did first heard about cancer vanishing on its own in the doctors a program on TV then did a little search and came up with some few medical studies. . .It is NOT all diesease that behave the same way to all people all the of the time, some disease vanish away on their own, some respond to treatment after a very long time some disease depend on the victim's immune system. . .Your dad's case is NOT different from that of so many people, it could be that all the previous medications he has taken were working but working very slowly and the relief coincided with his trip to mecca. Or it could be that the disease just vanished on its own as is the case with so many other people. As I aforementioned I know a woman close to me who was written off and left to die but she is very much alive now, her cancer vanished on its own without any treatement, she was actually too poor to afford any treatment, I was supposed to donate 2million naira to help her at that time but people advised that I gave her family the money instead of her. . . .Nothing extra ordinary there since it happens to many people. More deadly diseases like cancer have been shown to vanish on their own without treatment in some cases. . .

MacDaddy01: I had a discussion with Mr Anony that was quite interesting.


Anony said that my atheist worldview would deny miracles (eg ressurection of christ, water into wine, miracle healing by pastors) if even there was evidence for miracles. I said that miracles are non-existent in a sane world and reality. I argued that I wasnt holding a worldview but a factual stance based on reality. Historical evidence and biology shows that humans dont rise from the dead. Anony argued that his evidence is the bible but I then replied that the bible is not evidence. Anony said that my worldview does not allow me to accept other kinds of evidence.

Anony kept saying that my world view was close minded and that my world view is skeptical to the reality of miracles. I then formulated a counterargument for a good rebuttal; The Pink Unicorn Argument. Anony was claiming that I do not have a clear cut case against the evidence of miracles.


I asked Mr Anony if I brought a horse painted pink and with a horn glued to its forehead (all done iin a professional manner), would he believe that it was a unicorn? Remember, the horse is professionally designed and so you cant tell by looking and touching because it looks so real.


a) Anony said yes.
Then, Like the people who were decieved by Jesus that he was god/son of god, Anony would believe something (the unicorn) based on flimsy evidence. Why avoid scientific testing, biology and historical evidence to debunk the Unicron and magic?


b) If Anony had said no.
Then, Anony would be denying the existence of a unicorn based on the exact same reason why I do not believe that Jesus ressurected from the dead

-Historical evidence; no reliable record of a person coming back from the dead and no relaible record of unicorns

-Biology; dead bodies can not be fully reanimated and unicorns would have been found by now due to their size and the fact that the whole world has been mapped.

So anony's evidence for the existence of miracles are mythtical stories written in the bible? SMH. . .

Delafruita: "miracles" do happen.i know of a few

Clear cut miracles do NOT happen that is why NO god can heal amputees and restore their amputated limbs back. . .

WOW!!!. . . .Nice. . .

How can people live above 42 years when they live in such environment?. . .Life expectancy has to be very low when you live in such environment. . .

abiL: Stop generalising. Not all women maltreat their live-in helpers.

True not all women do that, but on a personal level majority of women do that. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Yes God forgave them for crucifying Christ.[/quote]You know this how?. . .

Ihedinobi: Mazaje and MacDaddy, if you please, I would like to come in at this point to point something out.

The reason you guys like to continue engaging Mr Anony is actually because he is extremely lenient and patient with your arguments which tend toward unreasonability, to say the least. He is a very courteous debater and an extremely humble one. That is why rather than engage in shouting matches, he disengages.

You call that cowardice and, per MacDaddy-speak, Anony-houdini. It is false to say either. I have, on purpose, drawn an argument with MacDaddy out to its full logical conclusion to show what happens when an unreasonable debater refuses to capitulate and tries to drag a fully-concluded debate further with a reasonable, honest debater.

Cyrexx, here represented by himself, took it upon himself in that discussion to caution me for insolence and arrogance. Whether he was right or not is not the issue. The issue is that because I did not disengage but decided to slug it out to its full conclusion with MacDaddy, I made myself vulnerable to such accusation.

The result of that would be that MacDaddy and others of like sympathies would take refuge in the falsity that I do not countenance opposing arguments. So, they would not accept arguments with me as capable of honest examination of conflicting positions.

Mr Anony does not wish for that kind of representation. What he wants is to take an honest view of your submissions and prepare capable responses to them or capitulate accordingly. In other words, he willingly continues to give you guys the benefit of the doubt that arguing with you is worth his time and energy.

But you do not appreciate this fact, and once you indicate that lack of appreciation, he releases you from further engagement. It is actually a courtesy done to you, because any further argument with you would result in a metaphorical beating up by him of you. This is what my episode with MacDaddy was meant to exemplify.

Honest debate means that the debaters give each other benefit of the doubt that their arguments are worth consideration. A debate ceases to be honest and worthy of human resource when that fact becomes false.

Finally, while we - my very dear brother, Mr Anony and myself, particularly - would love to see all of you become Christians, we are not about forcing Christ upon you. This is why we continue to engage you. I myself disengaged totally for a time because of my frustration with your type of arguments, but I have recuperated and have learned a bit better and am learning increasingly how to handle you guys without destroying or abandoning you. You're under no compulsion from anyone to accept Christ if you don't want to. We only take on your arguments to show that there is no reason to not accept Christ except that you do not want to. And that itself is a reason worthy of respect. That is, it is a position that anybody, created or not, must respect. It is an act of will and is in itself enough reason to quit striving with the person in question.

If you then want to strengthen that reason with other arguments, dear sirs, you will have to tolerate having such arguments demolished by stronger arguments. That is the risk involved in debate.

What is this long epistle all about?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, it seems you have problems with deductive arguments.
If God's nature is good, and if God is omnipotent and omniscient, then it follows that when God allows suffering, it must have a purpose. Not knowing exactly what the purpose is does not take away the fact that the argument has a purpose.

Much like: If your phone has a designer then the buttons on your phone must have a purpose. If the buttons on your phone have a purpose, not knowing the specific purpose of a particular button does not automatically make the button purposeless. The problem is with your limited understanding and not the phone or the phone maker.[/quote]Your arguments lack good bases and I have been point it out to you since. . .If I want to know the purpose of every button on my phone all I need to do is consult the phone manual book and I will see its purpose. Its very simple, you on the other hand claim your god speaks to you can you quickly ask him to tell you what the purpose of human suffering is?. . .Stop comparing your god to the human society and how it works and when we use how the human society is supposed to work to ask you questions about your god you go about running away by claiming you do not know your god's will. . .The bible is there which you claim is the word of your god can you go through it and tell us why your god refused to protect those that call unto his name for protectin as he promise?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I don't know the purpose of suffering but I know that God is just therefore if God allows suffering, it has a purpose. As for asking God questions, I do all the time and He answers according to His will.[/quote]You don't know the purpose of suffering buy yet you know that suffering is good or just because of some unknown reason?. . .LOL!

MacDaddy01: Btw, your brocolli-child analogy is an epic fail.

1) My 9 year old nephew can tell you the benefits of vegetables because they teach nutrition and diets in school. There is also the internet.

2) Unlike your god, daddy is available. The question can be answered. For god, never

He keeps accusing you of the inability to reason properly when its his own reasoning that is always deficient. . .He is a sophist that prefers arguing with athiest that give him room to dance and dance all over, when asked direct questions its either hr runs away or pretends the logic of the question isn't sound enough. . He prefers some nonsense sophsim predicated on some ridiculous premise. He makes his own assumptions and tries to force you to argue based on them. He claims to argue for god but constatnly throws the bible under the bus. . .The bible clearly says god will protect his own like a father will protect his child. . .It goes on to say that those that call on to the name of Yahweh with belief in their minds will have what ever the asked for. If you ask him why many who have asked their god for protection and ended up not getting protected as promised by their god he begings to wriggle and say you are asking emotional questions. . . . . .He will just prefer that you go about dancing to his ridiculous tunes of sophistry. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]So my answer is: Ask God.[/quote]Why don't you ask your god and tell us what he told you is the answer to the question since you claim he answers people, ask him and let him answer you then let us know what he told you. . .Why do you keep arguing from ignorance? As macdaddy has pointed out, if you dont know the purpose of suffering as you said, then why claim that suffering is just? Why claim that the suffering your god allows is just?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Well mazaje, I could answer you bit by bit but I won't bother because we have been flying off on tangents with you making lots of emotional arguments that really have no bearing so I'll give you the summary of my position and you can either take it and come up with a logical rebuttal or you can leave it entirely and blow some more hot air.[/quote]I am arguing using the bible and the promises made in them for those that believe in the bible god. . .How is your god all loving?. . .You are yet to show that. .

Here it is:

Premise 1: God is omnipotent and omniscient therefore He is able to prevent suffering.
Premise 2: God is not omnibenevolent rather He is All-loving. Love allows some suffering if it achieves a greater purpose.
Conclusion: Suffering exists but since we know God is omniscient and omnipotent and all-loving, He knows the purpose of our suffering and we can trust God to do what is best.

I will not engage you in your dubious phlosophical sophism. I just agrue directly. All the time you have been telling us and claimg to know what your god wants, how he wants it and when he wants it, you claim to tell us what he thinks and know his will and his wants and his needs, you speak for him all the time by trying to make a case for him but when asked questions you run away claiming you don't know his will. . .Why make a case or claim to be a mouth piece for something whose will you claim you do not know?. . .What is the greater purpose for failing to protect those that call on your name for protection even when you promised to protect them by leaving them to be paralyzed for the rest of their lives in pains?. . .

I would appreciate it if you can show me logically how my premises might be wrong or don't follow from each other. If you can't, then please accept the validity of the argument and move on.
.............or you can just say "I don't believe in God"

You don't have a premise and you don't even have an argument. . .You are just trying to use some dubious sophism to keep running round in circles. . .How is your god all loving when he refuse to protect his own that call unto his name for protection as he promised?. .