₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I was expecting a better debate from you I was hoping you would question the positions of Michael Ramsden and especially professor John Gray being that he is an atheist who doesn't believe that secular humanism logically follows from atheism.[/quote]So one man's opinion which is faulty and baseless in my opinion should be held sacred?. . .His opinion isn't sound. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Don't be a fanatic I beg you. Sit back and properly reason your position. Search for the truth because when you have found it, no one will be able to take it away from you + you will have a ready answer to anyone who asks you about it....because you will know it deep down to be true.

All the best.[/quote]I am yet to see you give any ready or meaningful answer to any question that is being asked of you here. . .By the way truth is relative, no?. . .Your truth is someone else lie. . .And your lie is some one else truth. . .

davidylan: Militant atheism - a new safe haven for deluded blacks whose only understanding of science = what whites think.

This deluded goon places his entire existence on the lies, myths and superstitions of the ancient jews and greek but still has the mouth to call others deluded?. . .By the way everything you KNOW and will EVER KNOW about science has been and will be ONLY as a result of what the white man has discovered and thought you either directly or indirectly FACT. . .Your entire scientific knowledge depends only on the white man and his knowledge and what he has discovered. . .So that makes you a militant atheist I guess going by your own definition. . .

davidylan: Like i said... atheists' will only accept the validity of the God theory when they receive His physical address.

But look at the double standard... when are atheists going to present to us a video of the big b[i]a[/i]ng?

Because the christians are the ones that tell us that god speaks to them, heals them,appears to them and intervenes on their behalf all the time, we will also like to see and experience these things too. . .And for the umpteenth time you f[i]o[/i]ol. . .The big b[i]a[/i]ng is the scientific explanation of how the world came about not an atheistic one. . .Many christians believe in the BB as an event that happened, they just say that god caused the BB. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, you guys are funny. You remind me of when the devil tempted Jesus to turn stone into bread........oh well

...........But the Jewish leaders demanded, “What are you doing? If God gave you authority to do this, show us a miraculous sign to prove it.”
“All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:18-19[/quote]What is this . . . .Jesus PROMISED those that believe in him the ability to do greater things than him if ONLY they believe in him. . .I repeat clear cut miracles DO NOT happen. . .The fact that NO body on earth can heal and amputee and restore the amputees limbs in Jesus name says it all. . .You keep regurgitating mythical narratives from a story book, show us that miracles happen in real life and I will believe you have an idea of what you are talking about. . .Until then keep regurgitating your mythical stories. . .They have nothing to do with reality. . .

@ plaetton

This topic does justice to the topic of discussion here. . .Go through it. . .

https://www.nairaland.com/501927/evolution-yahweh-god-jews

Mr_Anony:
Oh ok, they are all one and the same truth to me and you can't have anyone without the other....the core of it being the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what it entails.

But the resurrection of Jesus remains a myth. . .After all Mohammed ascended into paradise on the back of a white winged horse too. . .

Deepsight is here with his oneness of infinity delusion. . . . . .

Mr Anony will never answer any question,always obfuscating everything and going round in circles offering very tenous arguments. . . nice to see the islamic apologist giving him a very good run for his money. . . .

The same muslims where laughing and giving each other hi5 when the taliban were busy destroying the statue of buddah. . .Now they are having a taste of their own medicine and crying. . .Was it not the grand mufti of saudi arabia that said all churches in the arabian peninsula need to be destroyed. . .Why are these cry babies now crying when they their fellow muslims are being giving a taste of their own medicine in china?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]And I am saying that God is still in the business of doing the extraordinary. he is still talking to people and doing miracles and people are still believing. Nothing has changed about God.
The only thing is that when a man has pre-concluded that miracles never happen, even if a miracle kicked him on the head, he won't believe it is a miracle he will say "there must be a scientific explanation for it" and when he has found none, he will say "we are still searching for a scientific explanation" or he says "it is a perfectly normal though rare occurrence" he never accepts a miracle, he doubts it until he dies.
That is what I call "fanatical skeptism": The firm belief in doubt.


https://www.nairaland.com/995063/skeptic[/quote]As Martin said, the restoration of the limbs of an amputee after being prayed for in the name of Jesus will make me and all the atheist here evangelical christians, after all Jesus PROMISED those that believe in him the ability to do GREATER things than he did. .We were told among other things that he healed a man whose ear was amputated and had it restored. . .If the bible is true christians can heal amputees and restore their amputated limbs back. . .The FACT that no christian on earth can do that says it all. . .Clear cut miracles DO NOT happen. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If there is anything I don't quite like about you, it is how you start an argument by choosing not to understand a position.

If I say "Mazaje come here" and you decide to come, that doesn't mean I automatically have control over your will.
However, if I call you repeatedly and you always show up each time I call, then It can be argued that I have control over your will.

God can be called upon but it is entirely His decision whether He wants to honor your word or not. What Martian was asking for was repeatable theophany i.e. controllable appearances of God.

God is not controllable. If God's appearances are repeatable, then they cease to be miracles no matter how wonderful they are.
If every time you recite a prayer a certain way, the exact same miracle happens then it is no longer God you are praying to but a machine.[/quote]Remember we are talking about a god you guys claim WANTS humanity to know him and have a personal relationship with him. .We are talking about a god you guys claim WANTS to SAVE humanity. . .If he can speak to ancient men through public speech on the pages of story books, fight along side them, show himself to be real to them when he was summoned for a test etc, he should be able to do same to us the modern people. . .So that we will stop relying on people like you that are always trying to make his case for him but failing all of the time. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]As expected, you have come up with another theory laden with a pre-assumption. How does the story of Elijah prove that God is subject to man's will? Elijah believed in God. He called God and God answered. It was God's choice whether He wished to answer or not. Others have called God at some times and He chose not to answer. If God didn't answer, He would still have been God. You are only speculating as usual.[/quote]You clearly stated that your god can not be summoned at will because that takes him of the god category. . .I clearly showed you where he was summoned at will to prove himself just the way martins talked about and you are here blabbing and throwing more excuses. . .In the pages of story books which happen to be the only place where your god exist, he is always doing incredible things, he can be summoned at will to prove himself, Elija summoned him at will. . . Gideon and many others. . .In fact in the pages of story book were read that your god once addressed men through public speech. . .God is the same yesterday to day and forever no?. . .Keep on making excuses. . .If your god truly exist you will NOT be here telling us about his existence and what he wants because you have failed miserably, he will do it himself. . .

mkmyers45: If asked too...what are top 10 reasons why you reject Christianity?

1. There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that Yahweh exists. . .He is a creation of the ancient jews and their superstitions. . .

2. The bible is nothing but the words of men. It contains many historical and scientific errors
the book is often self-contradictory.

3. The bible lies about its authors. . .Most of the writers of the books have no identity. . .

4. The bible contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of the god it talks about. . .

5. On the question of communicating with God, christianity insidiously asks its adherents to deceive themselves.

6. The fact that religion relies on guilt, fear and outlandish promises to gain obedience.

7. Unequivocal miracles do not occur.

8. The fact that there is no universal christian doctrine. . .Every body just keep self projecting his/her self as god and spewing his own opinion and interpretation of the bible as the true doctrine while laying claims to the elusive holy spirit. . .

9. The hypocrisy and hypocritical lives of christians.

10. The attributes of the christian god shows he is impossible to exist. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, I am doing nothing of the sort, I believe Martian will be convicted of the Holy Spirit in God's time.
What Martian is demanding is unreasonable as it reduces God to some sort of mechanism that can be summoned at will, somewhat like a genie from a magic lamp.........but God is not subject to mans will.
What martian wants as proof for God cannot be God. What Martian wants is an idol.[/quote]Every time you come up with you non arguments you end up shooting your self in the foot. . .Your god was summoned at will in the bible, no?. . .Remember Elijah and the prophets of baal? He was summoned to prove his superiority against the other gods, no?. . .God is not subject to man's will but he was subject to the will of the ancient jews, no?. . .Why is it that your god ONLY does incredible things in the pages of a story book?. . .

So a very poorly display of acting is your evidence for the existence of demonds?. . .

mkmyers45: Atheists or Religionists who are more corrupt?

Both are equally corrupt. . .

mkmyers45: Ok, by definition you are an atheist but from you're speech you are of the belief that 'the Creator/Origin of Life' is a possibility that has not yet been fully proven?

Yeah, or that the universe is all that there is. . .with no beginning and no end, or an extension of something even bigger, or an assembly of somethings we are yet to discover. . .The possibility is endless. . .I am open to the universe having a creator or creators who exist no longer exist. . .But am open to that option. . .We just don't know. . .

mkmyers45: Ok, can you differentiate between god and creator in your own terms so i be clear

Here is the basic definition of god from wikipedia. . .God usually refers to the single deity in monotheism or the monist deity in polytheism. God is often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of humans and the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.
God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent". A being that interacts with people, has the right religion and holy books , Is angry with sin etc. .

Creator(s) of the universe to me is something(s) that just set the universe in motion. . .Doesn't have to be personal, omnipresent, alive, perfect etc with all the attributes religions attribute to their deities. . .

mkmyers45: Well most religious and irreligious stances are based on many views e.g

1. Origin of Life - Your View - Neutral

I don't know, nobody has ever brought any conclusive evidence to support his/her claims or hypothesis. . .I don't just believe in holding unto baseless speculation. . . .

2. Possibility of a 'god/deity' etc etc - Your View - Possible

I think, you are getting me wrongly, if you talk about the possibility of the universe having a creator/creators then am open to that possibility. .God is a loaded term. . .

SO you leaving these options open may make you seem more like an agnostic....I think muskeeto will support me on this as he has raised the issue before

I don't believe in all the gods men worship and talk about. . .

musKeeto: Agnostic? :-)

Am not an agnostic when it comes to god and religions. . .Gods that men worship do not exist in reality, it is the belief in the gods that exist not the gods themselves, as such the gods die away when people stop believing in them. . Examples are Ra, Zeus, etc. . .These gods used to be very powerful gods thousands of years ago. .I am an atheist because , I hold the view that gods do not exist as advertised. . .

mkmyers45: Do you see yourself as a play-it-safe atheist?

Am lost. . .Play it safe atheist?. .whats that?. .

^^

I don't think humans are the only ones in the universe. . . .The universe is way to big and now with the discovery of earth like planets all over the place, I think its possible that there are other life forms out there. . .I am open to that possibility. . .If there are other life forms out there we might never know. . .

FXKing2012: When I came up with the assertion that the world would have been a much better place without the atheist, so many started asking if it is the atheist who steals, embezzles, engage in thuggery, etc etc. Well, maybe not but the things atheists have been known to do as far as harming this world is concerned are far worse than embezzling and corruption.

Here is a list of the things known atheist have done in way of destroying this world:

1) Adolf Hitler was an atheist who started the second world war alongside his atheist allies in Italy and Japan. The war claimed over 60million casualties worldwide (2.5% of world population at the time) and the destruction of properties could not even be quantified.

2) The first world war was started when a Bosnian Serb called Gavrilo Princip assassinated the heir to the Austrian throne, Archduke Franz-Ferdinand, along with his wife in Sarajevo. The war claimed well over 16 million lives and wounded over 20 million.

3) Emperor Showa (Hirohito) of Japan was a major ally to Hitler and he led Japan to invade the entire asia claiming countless lives and properties.

4) Benito Musolini: Fascist dictator of Italy and Hitler's right hand man in Europe who helped Hitler invade and destroy much of northern Africa during the second world war.

5) Napoleon Bonaparte fought so many wars and also was a leading figure in the French revolution which claimed hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

6) Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (1870—1924) - Marxist revolutionary and leader of the Bolsheviks. Lenin considered atheist and anti-religious propaganda to be essential to promoting communism.

7) Joseph Stalin - General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union's Central Committee from 1922 until his death in 1953.

Mikhail Gorbachev - Former Soviet president. Little wonder the USSR fell apart under his watch.

9) Karl Marx (1818–83) - a 19th-century philosopher, political economist, sociologist, political theorist, often called the father of communism

10) Seun Osewa - using nairaland to promote the Antichrist agenda.

The list is just endless. Imagine the impact these people had and are still having in our world. Now u see what I mean when I say the world would have been better off without atheists.

You are completely deluded and crazy. . .Re read the nonsense you have typed, after which you ought to cry and feel sorry for yourself because of the stu[i]p[/i]idity you have displayed. . .

mkmyers45:

Do you think a better standard of living made you more receptive to Atheism?

Not really, better education and exposure. . .

mkmyers45: what will be the nature of this discussions? What will you ask him?

Why must it be a him?. ..It could be them. . .It could be her and him. . .It could be anything. . .If i meet any deity or deities I will ask them what exactly they want from me, if i have done anything wrong to them personally. . .We will have a serious discussion. . . .

mkmyers45: What if you die and find out there is a 'God/Deity' that you didnt surrender/believe in?

I won't. .If I do, I will take full consequence for my actions. . .No god/deity has told me that he wants me to surrender/believe in him. If I meet such then we will discuss. . .

mkmyers45: How did your family react to your atheism?

They NEVER accepted it when i showed them my doubts, didn't come out fully but just let them know about my doubts, It was a fight knew I will never win so I just let them have their way. . .My mum is an end of day enthusiast that believes Jesus will come tomorrow . She TRULY believes we are in the end times and Jesus will come in her life time or the rapture will take place during her life time . . .Wealth and the good life has made her relax her position a bit now, money always have a way of changing people. . .My step dad is a closet atheist I think. . .My bothers and sisters are all christians that strongly believe in Yahweh's existence. . .

mkmyers45: Ok, If all Christians believed that the Bible was entirely allegorical, what would you argue in support of your position?

It won't change my position at all. . .Some christians actually argue that most of the bible is allegorical. . .The bible is a religious document whose claims and assertion are mostly false.

mkmyers45: What does the atheist position offer people? How has it improved your life? Why will it improve others’ lives?

Atheism offer different things to different people, I can only speak for my self. . .To me the atheistic point of view is more helpful and grounded in reality, it is more proactive than the archaic religious one. With atheism I value learning more about the world, its people and how it functions as an entity, as opposed to just being told what to believe about it and doing so blindly because some people want others to reason along their preconceived and myopic ideas about the world.Gaining the freedom to make my own opinions without fear of retribution or the excessive guilt that religion imposes on its adherents. Religious people are always worried about bad things and what might happen, many believe their stay here is just a test and give more importance to the life after instead of fully enjoying the here and now. . . .

I prefer a life that is creative with positive potentials, a life without 'distractions' like the unnecessary fear and hatred associated with religions. Anything that man needs to do must be done by man himself, what ever I want to do i try to do it instead of wasting time hoping and praying for a miracle. Imagine not having to live in fear of what religions espouse? Its really emancipating. . .Atheism has improved my life by clearing my sight and making me much more open to different experiences, instead of just believing that the bubble I have been indoctrinated with and living in is the only true and right experience or way. . .

mkmyers45: will you stay for a while...??

I no move again. Something came up today at the dying minute, but its all good sha. .Had to shif the date to wednessday next week. .I will be there for 3 weeks. . .

Chrisbenogor: *rushes in front of the camera and waves frantically. See me yay!!*

noetic16: how about those who made all their wealth as Christians? and by the way, how much do you have that you call wealth?

Look at this poor man

You don run na. . .How far?. . .Nice to know you still visit the forum. . .Send your accont number see if I no full am with money, then you will know how wealthy I am. . .

Delafruita: thats seriously uncalled for.

He is my pal. . .He meant no harm. .Just bantering. . .

nyameke: good point about wealth not having anything to do with religion or atheism..but wealth creation aint got nothing to do with luck or hard work..Trust me I see a lot of extremely hardworking people living in abject poverty all because of ignorance.True wealth creation has nothing ti do with luck also.

Wealth has nothing to do with hard work. . .Personally, I believe you need the right channels and luck to break out. . .No matter how hardworking and intelligent you are you still need that luck to push you ahead because there are so many people I like you who are also hardworking and very intelligent, The luck will help you stand out among equals or give you that break through you need. . .I know very hard working people yet they are struggling. .I know those with luck and the right connections that are doing very well. . .