₦airaland Forum

And meanwhile Jesus was a Brewmaster. He turned water into wine, right?
That is what is done in breweries, turning water into beverages

As If The Church Is Different From Nigerians.

Is There Any God-inspired Economic Principle being Used by Any Church That We Can Go Take A Look at?

Our Vice President is a Pastor of no small standing, so what?

ifenes:
Gospel is a Latin borrowed word for news, information,a certain knowledge. However a gospel can be for good or negative. Often time to make a recipient think in a particular way.

Concerning the VC distributing Freebies, I don't think life works that way. A certain individual cannot be responsible for giving you or anyone what you want. What about you having the ability to create your form without having to attend such institution? Freebies are never freebies, they come with conditions and rules.....like in the case of the god all Christians babies are subjected to, you must worship this god or no freebies!

The Gospel of truth is one that sets you free from rules and obligations. That you are the light, true path of the world( your world) and anything your strongly believe in is what you get. According to bible( which is actually not a Christian book), it said Jesus made it clear that what ever he did,you can do better. Meaning you can be a brighter light than he was. This is an Esoteric knowledge that should empower you and not enslave you. Until you activate the powers of your mind you won't experience heaven. Heaven is an experience, not a place to worship the European version of god.

A carton of Orijin for you.

@ bolded, More than 2000 years after Jesus walked on water no Christian have dared to tried it.

shadeyinka:
I guess you misinterpreted the import of the OP. The thrust is that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. By implication, non of us humans make the entry requirement - perfection!

Evert institution has its own entry requirement. For a kindergarten, the pupil to be need to fulfill some conditionalities however mild they may be:
1. Must be say a minimum of 3 years old
2. Must be healthy looking
3. Must have a parent or guardian who will be responsible.

Whatever the conditions are, in relation to paradise, no human being qualifies!



I believe that the OP was making a comparison between admission requirements in our tertiary institution and admission requirement for heaven. Even a kindergarten pupil has to meet a minimum entry requirement. A 3 months old baby is not qualified to be enrolled for instance into the KG class.

Also, the higher the objective in view the more stringent is the minimum entry qualification. The minimum entry qualification for heaven is sinless perfection.!

Of course! But no one can work his way to salvation.

A gift cannot be forced! There is nothing paradoxical about it. I can't force you to accept a gift of a house in Abuja.

A PhD is not a gift...in the case illustrated, the gift is the admission into the university of heaven NOT the class or status of graduation (that happens only after the judgement).

So, concerning heaven, the admission is a gift but you attain your class by works. We are not saved by works, we are saved to work.

Meaning you don't need to study (work) to get a PhD (salvation) but you are given a PhD so that you study, abi?

Jesus showed that it is possible for man to attain a PhD, so if you want a PhD you follow his example, because at graduation the name on the Certificate is your name not your parent's.

@bolded, it doesn't change anything, you work.

.

He placed at its head a Jesuit mathematician and astronomer named Christoph Clavius.

That is telling of our perception that science and religion does not mix, yet most break throughs in science was made by "Jesuits".
Another Jesuit, Gregor Mandel, comes to mind, gave us genetic manipulations.

shadeyinka:
Hi Promise10:
Don't you think the alegorical parable presented above above also explain the concept of "the gospel".

Gospel by definition means good news. And the good news here is that the least qualified person can make heaven because his imperfections have been waived because he accepted Gods solution?

If the VC of OAU were to declare that ANY Nigerian can come to his office and collect a special FREE application form on which WHAT YOU FILL IS WHAT YOU GET! Wouldn't that be good news to all Nigerians seeking admission?

OK, since you got special free admission into OAU, does that exempt you from all academic activities?

shadeyinka:
Why the need to believe?
Believing is like you stretching your hands to accept that which has been freely paid for and provided. When it comes to salvation, the bible makes it clear that by grace we are saved through faith. The Faith is the believing put into action and grace is a favour that is not deserved nor merited but given as a gift.

A gift has to be received, a gift is never imposed!

The analogy presented is an allegorical parable comparing that which is seen and therefore easily understood to that which is abstract.

Interestingly, the analogy works both at the kindergarten level where the parent stand in for their baby up to the Ph.D. level.

The analogy also works with how people get employed in the civil and corporate environment.

To register for a Ph.D, there is a minimum entry requirement, the candidate must apply, the candidate must consent to obey the rules and finaly , the candidate is given a Ph.D registration number. So you see, it Tally's well.

I am not sure if I understand the import of this section of your post but my understanding is that:

I am the Way= Without Jesus, no one can find the way to the Father for Jesus Himself is the way

I am the Truth= Without Jesus, every information received about getting to the Father is a lie for Jesus Himself is the truth

I am the Life= Without Jesus, you are Spiritually dead even though you may be physically alive for he who has the Son has life.

The aspect of work comes only after salvation: For we are saved to work

The question I asked is "is the requirement for admission into nursery school the same with PhD?"

In kindergarten no requirement is placed on the child except ability to talk, (which naturally comes with age) but on the parent for admission, but is that the case with admission into a university, where the child proves his academic competence by passing his WAEC/JAMB?
Do parents write WAEC/JAMB for their ward?

Faith/grace is the requirement for admission into kindergarten, but to progress to PhD you must proof your competence in character and learning by mastery. Besides it is not by force you must have a PhD, you can make do with your FSLC.

Whether you are saved to work or work to be saved, there is work to be done, and it behooves you to do it.

If a gift is never imposed but has to be received, is that not paradoxical?
A PhD is not a gift else everyone would have received.

Hhhhhmmmmm

OP, you tried, in that case going to heaven is a walk over, but Since admission "requirements" were waived, why the need to "believe or accept Jesus," which in itself constitutes a requirement, albeit an easy one?

Is the requirements into nursery/primary school the same with that of a PhD program at MIT or Harvard?

If yes, why did Jesus come to show us the requirements and how to attain a PhD in Christhood?

Your analogy of earthly and heavenly does not tally, it may hold at the lower level but not at the higher.

Jesus said he is the way.
Way can also mean road. meaning he has mapped out the road for the journey, which you are to embark. The road is there but the walk requires your energy and effort to get to the destination.

The mentality of Christians is "Jesus is the way," and looks for a place on "the way" and sits down.
Yes, Jesus is the way, are you journeying on that way?

Jesus is the truth.
The truth is the sign post on the "road" informing you of the location you are and direction to go.

Jesus is the life.
Life is a school, and the exams you are required to pass is overcoming your ego, to the point you see God's love at work in an atheist.

In the book of Tobit there is a prescription to deal with such, though you won't find Tobit in most Bible.

... But if the Holy Spirit wants to "come over you" like he did to Mary to conceive Jesus, you should rebuke him ba?

Hahahahahaha

Every thing about today's woman is artificial, and an artificial personality fits their role model. Nice choice.

What a comic relief!

gidgiddy:
Major General Philip Effiong

Who deceived you?

General Effiong took over to negotiate surrender when General Ojukwu absconded.

The atrocities Biafran army committed in Ibibio lands makes one wonder if General Effiong was not an Ibibio man.

gidgiddy:
The two actually do mean the same thing. Contrary to popular opinion, Biafra has never been about just Igbos. The last president of Biafra wasnt even an Igbo man

And who was that?

Wilgrea7:
but the anunnaki story has so much in common with our biblical story.. some believe the anunnaki to be the biblical nephlim

The question is, which of the two stories answers most of our questions?

The Anunnaki version fills all the gaps found in the Bible version.

Meaning it was their idea that the girls be abducted so that they can make a franchise out of it.
Ok, I see!

That Gowon's comments speaks to the Niger Delta issue (which I believe was the theme of the movie) and not Biafra issue as the two don't mean the same thing.

He should have known that the laws of his country are blurry when it comes to personal religious belief and should have acted accordingly.

I belief in "God" but not as portrayed by main stream religions (Christianity in my own case).

All this na wash.

So the Judge means Ameachi tried to bribe him and such info/evidence was allowed to waste all these time, PDP was looking for what to use?

Have you heard of "Carbon dating" before?

Have you heard of the Mayan calendar?
The Mayan calendar runs for 3600 years, how did they come about it?
Do you know why it was said the world would end in 2012 and all such predictions?
Yes, that was the last year in the Mayan calender

The next phase of evolution will start when the Gods (Anunnakis) that created us comes around with the next upgrade.

The creation story in the Bible is adapted from the more detailed and specific Sumerian version dictated by Enki, the God that created man.

There is much we Christians do not know and ignorance is not an excuse.

Hahahaha
She is funny.
The child looks like an adopted slowpoke and she is forcing him.

It would have been nice if the child kissed her willingly contrasting innocence and you know...

solite3:
when Jesus said he is the door he wasn't talking of literal door that need structures but he is "The door" which means portal through him you will have a new life, his life.
He is the one who receives those who believe in him.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

His father's house is heaven. Hell is a different place entirely.

Literally?
If you are not reading the words of Jesus literally, then what are you arguing?

Is death not a portal?
Is birth not a portal?
Who has not passed through either of these portals in recorded history, except Melchizedek?

Hell and heaven is part of the same structure. Palaces do have dungeon so heaven must have a hell. Right?

solite3:
[ there is nothing like spiritual maturity after death, the only opportunity to repent is now that you are alive. only those whose names are written in the lambs book of life will make it to heaven.
Jesus is the only door and the only way to heaven.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
there are only two destinies after death i.e hell or heaven.

Take note of whatever is in parenthesis.
Who is talking about spiritual maturity after death?

"Jesus is the door" and a door don't stand alone, doors are always part of a structure. He didn't say the father is on the other side of the door.

The entrance (front door) into a palace doesn't open into the throne room, but the foyer; there you probably would meet the receptionist or house keeper but not the King.

I wonder how two equals many.
Jesus did not say, "in my father's house are two mansions," which we can construe as heaven and hell.

Please understand an argument before you join.

If he leaves his "Refuge", I wonder where he is going to be safe.

Depending on the "spiritual" maturity I attain at the point of death, I move on to the appropriate level in spiritual dimension.

Death is just like entering a lift (elevator) that moves you between the dimensions just as birth is coming out of the lift into a dimension, just that the doors open on its own when you get to your appropriate level.

"In my father's house are many mansions (dimensions)", and death/birth is the means to move from one to the other.

analice107:
What happened in Eden had nothing to do with knowledge, Wisdom or perfection. For Adam had all of that, but only didn't know it.
What God was teaching Adam was CONTROL.

In Life, CONTROL IS EVERYTHING.

Adam was given charge of all things in Eden. Everything. Adam had absolute power. What ever he decided to call anything those were their names till today. But God needed to teach him to put that POWER UNDER CONTROL.

Adam, you have the power to do it, it is right there before you, but walk away.

Let me create a scenario for us.

You are a father. A wealthy father. Of course your son can't lack in your house. If it's bread, there's every kind of bread. White bread, brown bread, corn bread, wheat bread, all kinds. Nothing lacking in the house.

Now, you needed to go out, but your son was left free at home. You call him to you and say, " Son, am going out, i"ll be back soon. Everything is at your disposal, only leave the wheat bread, don't touch it. You tell him the consequences shd he touch it. You left.

Sometime later, A stranger comes in talking about the wheat bread you instructed him not to eat. Doubt and mistrust gets planted into your boy. He begins to think, "Daddy doesn't love me as he says he does after all".
For how can he keep me from being like him? Now, he has forgotten that he is indeed like you, for the son of a goat is a goat.
And in a bit to be like you, finds out that he has lost the very essence of his likeness with you. although, still retains the image, but the likeness was gone.

In an attempt to take over your place, he lost the very power that puts him in your place.

In a move to Infringe on Gods sovereignty, he became a rebel who ran away when no one was after him.

Obedience without any room to disobey is not complete obedience.

You most have the power and choice to obey or disobey, without which, you can't truly say you are faithful. You have to choose what to do. You are a free agent not a robot.

This is what makes Christianity the hardest faith to adhere to, because you are enjoined to willingly, acceptably walk away from what you have power to do.
You are told not to Lust after a woman/man, but the woman/man is right there before you. Take your eyes and mind off.

Thou shall not steal, but you're hungry and have no food.

Thou shall not lie; but they said the job is for people whose age range is below 35, and you need this job. so, you have to reduce your age.

When your enemy is hungry, give him food, pray that he prospers even when his prosperity will make your life miserable.

When someone slaps your left cheek, turn the right let him slap; even when the enemy takes advantage and slaps your mum before you, tell your mum to turn the other cheek.


POWER UNDER CONTROL. That was what is was all about.

If you have never riden a bicycle, you cannot claim to have knowledge/wisdom of controlling a bicycle in motion.

Please check your dictionary for image/likeness, and stop confusing yourself.
If all that God created was good, how come likeness is so fickle, going by your argument?
Your child cannot lose his likeness of you because he disobeyed you.

Obedience and disobedience are two ends on the freewill-meter. Just like hot and cold on a thermometer, there is no specific point where one ends and the other starts, both are equally good for a purpose.

Adam giving names to things speak to the creativity in human nature. There are things that didn't exist in the time of Adam or in Eden, so he couldn't have given them a name, but as those things were/are "created", names were/are given, like chariots, cars, condom, steel, telephone, VR device, etc.

Besides Adam means Man.

4everGod:
The tree was not the tree of Wisdom! It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The good and evil here was not in the tree in itself but the tree was meant to produce knowledge of error which would be separated from the already existing good in Adam if he went ahead and disobeyed the instruction already given against eating of it.

Wisdom is not the ability to choose good over evil...no.

Wisdom is the ability to always do good via obedience to Gods word or Gods instruction as in the case of Adam... This is how God views wisdom and not our earthly idea of evil.

Adam and Eve were created perfect by God, because whatever God makes, is perfect. However, because of their sin, they lost that perfection.

Good is a synonym of Perfect so when God created everything and declared it was good you can replace good with perfect or entire, flawless, intact, sound, unblemished, unbroken, undamaged, unharmed, unhurt, unimpaired, uninjured, unmarred, whole.


God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’” If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that the fruit, in and of itself, gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. That is, the physical fruit may have contained some vitamin C and some beneficial fiber, but it was not spiritually nutritious. However, the act of disobedience was spiritually deleterious. That sin opened Adam’s and Eve’s eyes to evil. For the first time, they knew what it was to be evil, to feel shame, and to want to hide from God. Their sin of disobeying God brought corruption into their lives and into the world. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of evil—and the knowledge of their unclothedness (Genesis 3:6–7).

God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world. Why, then, did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free will, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The results—evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death—have plagued the world ever since. Adam and Eve's decision results in every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin. Adam and Eve's decision is what ultimately required Jesus Christ to die on the cross and shed His blood on our behalf. Through faith in Christ, we can be free from sin's consequences, and ultimately free from sin itself. Let me echo the words of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7:24-25, “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

If according to you good is synonymous with perfect, why is wisdom and knowledge not synonymous?

@ bolded, it is safe to infer that lack of wisdom is the inability to always do good via obedience, which by extension means Adam lacked wisdom. Right?

The argument that God knew Adam would sin yet put what would cause Adam to sin close by is shallow, would you place something injurious in your 4 years old child's room with just a warning to the child not to play with it, to test his obedience?

''God knew Adam would sin... "
'God did not want Adam to Sin... "
"God knew the consequences of sin... "
"God allowed Satan to tempt Adam/Eve..."
If God knew all these and did nothing to avert it only to be angry with Adam/Eve is sadistic to say the least.

What is the point of giving man freewill and forbidding him to use it?

4everGod:
First of all, man cannot in any way be likened to a computer program as we are gazillions of miles apart. Man has a soul and a computer does not. Man has emotions and a computer does not. A computer program functions within the program embedded while man has freewill. Your comparison would work if a computer had all the attributes found in man but sadly they do not. No program has a soul or emotions or freewill!

The "hacker" in your question has a time frame of existence in accordance with scripture but for now is serving the purpose of thr creator as without him choice would be meaningless on this earth as everything could be said to be good or everything could also be said to be bad.

The "APP " does not have the ability to correct itself as the "APP" functions in a physical capacity outside its inner spiritual workings and when faulty requires access to its spiritual maker to fix its inner spiritual workings.

Can a man commit suicide and kill his body? Yes
Can a man after killing himself also kill his soul ? No

Man or the "APP" is limited within its own program but the spirit is limitless and what the "Hacker" did was to bring the spirit within the limitations of the fleshly man so they became one and the same In their working but Jesus came to restore the original program which clearly separated the fleshly mans workings from the spiritual man of which He is chief.

At creation Adam was perfect and already has knowledge and wisdom especially considering the fact that he named all that was created and tended the garden which in all its diversity required tremendious wisdom and knowledge to achieve. The serpent came to introduce doubt. He caused man to doubt that he already had this knowledge. Knowledge did not come from the tree...its was already in man.

The serpent said "God knows that the moment you eat of this tree you shall be like God" in other words the serpent offered false knowledge and made man assume that the one given to him by God was either not enough or it was limited...but it wasn't.

Speaking in allegory does not mean the object/subject must have the traits of what it is likened to, else bible allegories wouldn't hold true.

If you say man was wise but forbidden to eat of the tree of wisdom, and the wisdom/knowledge from that tree was false, does that add up?
Was the crowning jewel of Eden a tree bearing false fruits, so to speak?

What is the function of wisdom/knowledge, if not to enable one make informed decision/choices yet man lacked wisdom of right and wrong to discern the "deception" of Sat An?

The Bible records that God after creating everything saw that it was "good", not perfect, meaning there was/is room for improvement.

4everGod:
[/b]


At the bolded the first man was totally different from the man of today (who is outside Christ) The first man was made in the image and likeness of Go while todays man is made in the image but not the likeness. Likeness means Character and inner traits.

Todays man needs Jesus in order to have the likeness of God seen in and through them. So Jesus is the completeness we need.

God does not make mistakes. He created perfection in Adam which got corrupted and that Corruption had to do with a tampering of a God likeness given to Adam and rendering it less of Gods likeness which being of a spiritual source required a spiritual intervention to correct. The correction came in Jesus Christ and that correction has been done but for this correction to be complete and acceptable, same way first man voluntarily chose to be corrupted is the same way todays man is expected to voluntarily choose to have corruption taken away. By Choice we fell and by Choice we are restored.

We are not Robots and were not created as one and in order to attain the acceptable height of Gods likeness we need to learn how to make the right decisions and choices until it becomes habitual and a life in us and this can only happen if the foundation is first fixed which is a willing desire to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior thereby fixing the corrupted Likeness in man.

Permit me to assume you are technologically inclined, If a programmer creates an app to do a certain task like browse the Internet, and a hacker introduced a malicious code into it, which steals or exposes people's private data, will you, the original programmer, say the app should correct itself or provide an OTA update/upgrade that automatically fixes the hack?

Since the hacker is identified, is it not wisdom to stop the hacker once and for all except the hacker serves a purpose in your greater business plan?

If man was Perfect at creation (which I doubt as knowledge and wisdom was not given him as eating from the tree of knowledge and wisdom was forbidden), why was it so easy for man to be deceived (hacked)?

Meaning man was not created perfect as he lacked wisdom, knowledge and discernment to repel the hack(er) as a browser app with embedded Anti-Malware would an online virus hack.

Gboyee4fun:
To get what man lost, man needs to pray and fast....Jesus Himself fast and pray, after you have really attained the level of man as a spiritual being.... fasting may not be necessary again...you pray and fast till you get to the level of spirit being which is the real Christian.

more so man is not a tree, he is a living been..comparing man to a tree is really wronged to me.....

You are funny, so trees aren't alive or you don't know the meaning of "compare" using "like"?

As you are now, is it because you prayed that is why the hairs on your head grows?