₦airaland Forum

omooba969:
Amarabae is defending her corner , if you know what I mean....she's a n_rse, I guess.

Now I understand. Typical of most of them.

See the way she attacked me. Lol

shugabasbn:
Sorry but the true must be told. The same doctor that u thought he didn't attend to you, has several patients waiting for him, don't be surprised as he is finishing the clinic he attention is already needed in the ward n patient may be waiting for him as well in theatre.
And funnily, he may be the one on call. If u know how Nigeria doctors bn over stressed just date one of them.
In a serious note, just advice our govt to employ more hands.
Thanks

I know they are over stressed. But you know it's not all of them.

I'm not telling them to give us the whole time in the world, we are telling them to make the little they can spare for us count. Do well, that which is worth doing.

Thanks.

Sultan5:
I totally agree with your conclusions. I think the problem begins with how doctors are trained. Most times we focus on the academic side more than the social part of the job hence the poor social skills.

I also feel the lack of a really strong and effective regulatory board for medical practitioners plays a major role. A few days ago there was a post here where some doctors took pictures while operating on a patient. If that were to happen in US or UK, those doctors won't still be practicing medicine. There's simply a level of impunity in the medical profession that shouldn't just be so. Ethics is now foreign in Nigeria health sector where it should be the driving force.

Imagine telling a patient the root cause of their sickness is a big problem. How is with holding that information in anyway helping them? Well I don't blame them 100% sha, they are working under very poor conditions. From finance to equipments and the likes. I feel a lot need to be invested in the health sector for there to be a rapid change.

Healthcare, security and education are the most important sector in any sane country. And should not be joked with but in Nigeria the opposite is the case.

Thank you very much sir a million times for this post! You couldn't have said things any better. All your points are majorly the problems we are facing. And the blame goes all round too not just to the doctors.

Your last paragraph is spot on! I'm a teacher so I know. It hurts to see how the sector is being neglected even above the others.

Thank you.

happybrother:
Are kidding or what.

He's definitely kidding. It will be a "crime" to say what he/she just said.

lebete3000:
Soon and very soon, the heartless doctors will be scooped by foolish countries that don't know what they're doing and you'll eventually get the heartful doctor you've always dreamt of.

Pls just bear with us for the time being...

Lol. I really can't tell whether you are being sarcastic or just plain humorous.

sainty2k3:
I could also write about the attitude of my Bank's customer service rep. The policemen, Even mechanics. So doctors are not human again? There are good ones and bad ones.
The system ain't helping. Like today I had to see patients in 4different wards , wide apart. And then this patient brought up same issue we have discussed overtime. I had to cut her, she could call me arrogant but I did that for the sake of the other patients waiting.

At least you were objective & also not hsrsh
in your reply here. That's a plus for you.

Yes, there are good and bad people everywhere. But with doctors, it's so different & noticeable. Why? Lives are at stake sir!

A little change could be the difference between life and death.

Tonymario58:
Are you a chronic disease patient?

SMH for you.

Mizwisdom:
You have raised some good points. Thank you for raising these issues.

Thanks dear.

Glorygrace:
@MissJoy29.I agree with you on the above subject matter. That was how they allowed my baby die and said God called him. I was so annoyed and wanted to sue the consultant. Now the O and G consultant want to be a governor of the State.

However some of them are humane just few of them. My younger brother is an ENT specialist doctor. All the best.

I'm so sorry dear for the loss of your baby. Please take heart.

Imagine? And he will probably allow other incompetent doctors like him to be employed when the time comes.

Oh I know some of them are humane. But they are so few they are almost not noticed. I hope your brother is kindhearted. Lol.
All the best to you all too.

iamfromlagos:
My sister had a near death experience with her baby at one of these private hospitals. She had just birthed a baby and she discovered that the baby's eyes were yellow and that it wasn't breathing normally which she reported to the Doctor. Then the Doctor told her it wasn't something serious so she was discharged a few days later. On getting home she discovered the yellowy eyes weren't subsiding and the breathing would not normalize, she was told to come back. When she went back she was told the baby had a hole in the heart and that they thought it would close up itself.
They had to fly the baby to India for surgery.
I'm not saying it was their fault the baby had a hole in the heart but they wanted to make profit at the detriment of people's lives. Of course they went back to the hospital and were billed separately from the previous consultation.

My dear, thank God for the life of your sister and her baby.

I can't begin to count the number of times these private hospitals play with human life & actually lose them in a bid to make money instead of referring to specialists.

I recall one incident where I had an ear infection and I went to a private hospital. Two actually. One even used an otoscope to check the ear and I'm sure he saw particles there that needed to be removed first. But what did he do? He gave me an eardrop which is to be put on top of the particles/pus. Lol.
The other just prescribed drugs and that was it. But when the pains even increased, I ran to a government hospital. An E.N.T specialist handled me & I got insrant relief. That singular experience became a deciding factor as to why I prefer government hospitals to private hospitals.

petsam11:
I watch live on TV not Live in Eko Hotel and Suites.... Some of my favorites (not all) Like Genevieve Nnaji, Omoni Oboli, Stephanie Linus,, Sambasa Nzeribe, Funke Akindele, RMD, etc didn't submit their movies (i.e or they don't have movies for the period of interest)...
Although some were nominated actors like Rita Dominic, IK Ogbonna, Queen Nwokoye, Falz, etc were nominated...

Ok....I get. I will follow the link you sent. Thanks

Inricash:
From your post



1) it's wrong for a medical practitioner not to tell you about what's wrong, the possible cause and what the management entails and especially if the patient ask to know then the patient has that right to know..

You could report such doctor before leaving to the hospital management


2) About doctors been sympathetic I must tell you that is a personality issue and nothing justifies a doctor or any professional been harsh..



Now lemme make you look at it from a doctors perspective



1) about been a general practitioner in private clinic.


Just know this, most doctors are not consultants(specialist) and even at the teaching hospitals most times you meet residents( those training to be specialist) or house officers (interns)


If Nigerians want to see specialist alone then Nigerians
Would have to share a few thousand doctors who are hardly available


Cases are referred to specialist only when it's beyond the capabilities of the doctor seeing the patient



2) about the time the doctor spends with you, you should also consider the patient work load...
The USA have over a million doctors and similar number also for Canada and uk and this countries employ them and they still complain of workload etc

Most of this countries are now relaxing their immigration and examination procedures for doctors intending to come in and practice from abroad

Doctors in uk staged a work out because of workload sometime last year too


You could verify all this from google


Nigeria since inception graduated now a little under 100 thousand doctors with over half of this number practicing outside the country

good majority of the remaining half are either not employed because the federal government claims they can't pay even the meagre sum (compared to even other African countries) they are been paid, some are not practicing and into business, lecturing et al as they need to provide for their families and some are dead


So imagine coming to a clinic with over 100 patients waiting for you, and over 50 admitted for you to see and then you still have calls to do that night( meaning at closing time of 4pm you still stay to work till the next day 8am and resume normal duty, nothing like off for you) that would be like 32 straight working hours and some days without rest or sleep....


This are the plight of some doctors and that's why they sometime are in a hurry to see you, because they is another patient somewhere waiting






The medical structure in Nigeria is terrible and it's unfair that you make a post like this to vilify the health professionals alone


Also she'd light on the work load, the lack of equipment, the poor and irregular pay, poor management etc


Also The fact that Nigerians really can't afford an ideal health care ( compare prices to those outside the country)



That would make someone understand that it's not always as it seems


God bless you and hope you make a more Comprehensive post another time

You have made some valid points.

I know it's not the fault of the doctor that the hospitals are under staffed and they have to see a lot of patients than they can handle but it's also certainly not the fault of the patients and it won't be fair to take out the frustrations on them even though I know the tendency to do that is there. The doctor is there to make the patient feel better not worse.

Btw, you want to report a medical doctor? To whom? The hospital management? Where will you even find them because it's likely no one will point the "management" to you as they want to protect their own. Even if they do, what will happen? This is Nigeria for goodness sake!

Again, the time spent with doctors that I'm talking about is not gisting time. You don't need the whole day to explain to the patient what is wrong, the causes, prevention and subsequently, treatment. I have the right to that information as a patient & anything other than that is unprofessional. Some nurses don't even know the name of the injection they are giving you. You ask, they ask you why you didn't ask the doctor. You get the chance to ask the doctor, they ask you why you want to know. Isn't the most important thing getting healed? Like seriously!

I want us to be objective here. My post wasn't made to attack anyone. It's to find out why things are the way they are.

The ones that are in our power to do, let's do it well.
Thank you.

funmisticqueen:
@ the last paragraph, you already went to the hospital with a bad mentality so your write up is flawed. A doctor does what he needs to do and gets you out of the hospital. simple. you are going to the hospital for a mentor or best friend

If that's all you understood from the post, thumbs up.

AreaFada2:
1) The lady you quoted sums up the attitude of medical and other clinical personnel in Nigeria. A Victorian age attitude. However I met a young lady doctor once when taken ill in Nigeria. She was great. But then she knew her MD was a family friend of more than 20 years. Plus she knew who she was treating.

2) The MD is also one of theolder generation doctors that really take their time to illustrate disease/treatment using diagrams. Being trained in old-style Christian hospitals back then.

It makes one thankful for medical education in the West.

3) Empathy is now a big aspect of medical care. Listening skills are taught big time in communicating with patients from day one in med school.

4)Regarding an ENT surgeon becoming "jack of all trade" in private practice, granted, an ENT guy could have been a vascular surgeon, a general surgeon, Obs/Gynae or whatever and later retrained/specialized in ENT. That said, its worrying to see that happen in so many private hospitals knowing that they treat conditions in which they are not specialist. That is where MoH has failed and NMA and GMDC have put self-interest above public safety/interest. By not in tandem with Ministry of Health making such practice impossible.

I know of an Orthopedist who has done only knee & hip replacement only for over 25 years. He won't even do the relatively easy Dupuytren's contracture op. His expertise in Hip & knee became excellent in deed.

5) Sure as the lady pointed out, hospitals are busy and resources grossly inadequate. Doctors are stretching available resources, with attendant frustration that go with that. But that's not the only reason.

6)For many in Nigeria, medicine is about prestige. Many are pressurized by parents into medicine. Be be called Iya Dokita, Nma Dokita or Papa Dokita. For others it's a profession with better job prospects than most. It is not a calling for many. No matter how brilliant one is, doing a job that is not one's calling, you can never do it with much joy. That inner discontent is transferred on to patients.

7)The other is training. Emphasis is still only the academic and less on wholistic approach. Touted and mouthed but not properly done.

The other factor is we live in a harsh country. Like many third world countries. The general unfriendly attitude cannot just be stripped off outside the hospital gate. It's part of people.

Interestingly Nigerian doctors who relocate abroad adapt to their new medical environment/culture very well.

So we can do better. But not there yet.

I like your objective view to this issue.
You touched every aspect. But in all, your penultimate paragraph & the last one sums it up quite nicely. I numbered the paragraphs I want to quote to make it easy for me.

@paragraph 1,2 & 3, to say I was shocked @ what the lady said is an understatement. I said to myself "she's either a medical doctor or she has someone really close to her who is one". That's why she was so biased.
I specially like the words you used in patagraph 2, "taking time". Which is what I have been saying. You shouldn't enter a doctors office and come out frustrated than you were because you understood nothing & you were afraid of them to ask questions.
Yes, communication skills(the most important being listening skill) & empathy as you rightly said are very important for effective doctor-patient relationship.

@paragraph 4, why can't these doctors pattern a majority of the private hospitals after what is obtainable in government hospitals? They shouldn't treat everything. It's not right.

@5th paragraph, I actually feel their plight. Unavailability of standard equipment, under staffing, irregular payment of salaries and other benefits (civil servants ate being owed at least 6 months salaries in my state). These are the faults of the government.

@6th & 7th paragraph, they are the real cause of these problems we are analysing. Most of the time, parents who are doctors influence their children to become one with promises of an already secured job offer. So these people are just going to go through the motions of studying medicine cis there's a job waiting for them already not cos they have passion to save lives. Again, a friend of mine who's in the medical field told me that even though they spend more years studying their course than a lot of us, they will eventually "overtake" us financially when they start practising.
Also, the training approach. You have said everything there.

Finally, truly, Nigerian doctors who migrate to other countries brace up & fit in easily.
I don't blame them sha. It's good to be in a place where things work.

petsam11:
U r welcome! The AMVCA's is an award night that I can't afford to miss watching it live... I missed the first and second edition (2013 and 2014)... But I haven't missed any since then... Although my favorites ain't up for nominations this year but I won't still miss it...

You watch live?
Really?

Who are your favourites that weren't nominated?

PennywysCares:
well I must say that the post is not longer enough as I was expecting, and that's one disappointment I got from you.
Secondly next time you wanna make a post like this, make it longer so that patient Nigerians, unlike the impatient docs you met in the Nigerian hospitals can read and let the topic be "My Grievances with Nigerian Doctors". But, permit me to remind you that most of those doctors you met in those hospitals you mentioned and others hospitals you might have assumed are not mostly paid their monthly salaries, their due allowances are what your Nigerian government don't give listening ears to unlike the abroad doctors you compared them.
This is Nigeria you must know, where human lives have less value including that of The Nigerian Doctors whose body you composed this 'Ode' to impress those whose hatred and bias for Nigerian doctors are heavier than horse can ride. something you must know is that someday the Nigerian doctors may no longer remain Nigerian doctors, but European and American doctors cos that's where the importance of doctors are valid and value.

1)You always visit the hospitals assumed to know the symptoms of your sickness even when you are yet to be diagnosed.[/] [b]2)You want a proper trained medical doctor to listen to the stories you have to tell than to carry out a proper diagnosis (as he was taught) to ascertain your conditions and what solution it requires. To you the doctors are impatient cos they don't spent a whole day listening to your complaints, leaving those in other wards and ICU dying. 3)Next you visit the hospital ask the doctor how risky his and work is in a Nigeria where security is at dust especially the northerner states where Fulani herdsmen are at rage, in the Southern states where cult war is at stake

I encourage you to write a letter like this you wrote to Nairaland to your federal Government of Nigerian, tell them the importance of doctors in the society remind them the poor standards of Nigerian hospitals, the non-payment of doctors salaries and allowance, the uncomfortable working conditions of the Nigerian doctors and more so the poor medical institutions of learning across the country Nigeria.
I make my sentences simple that internet wailers may understand.

Thank you

Sir, I'm not denying the fact that doctors in Nigeria have little or nothing to go by in terms of infrastructure and support(all round support)from the government. I listed some of these things you pointed out here earlier in my post. I called them 'anomalies'. And some of them aren't the doctor's fault. So trust me, I get what you are saying.
But the issues I have with them are of their own making.

@first bolded, in a bid to attack me personally and not the points I raised, you made a mistake. Please tell me, how else am I supposed to visit the hospital if I don't have symptoms of something. Is it now the doctor's work to tell me how I'm feeling? I have to have the signs & symptoms; the doctor has to have the diagnosis and answers based on these signs & symptoms I have and then the treatment. That's how it usually goes.

@second bolded, tell me sir, if the medical doctor doesn't have time to listen to my "stories", how else is he/she going to make the diagnosis you talked about? You see how you are contradicting yourself? How can a "proper trained doctor" as you put it not have time to know what is wrong with the patients he/she is seeing?

@third bolded, you gotta be kidding me! One quick question please, are all the medical doctors in Nigeria posted to the crisis-ridden north?
Besides, how ironic that you don't want "proper trained doctors" to listen to my problems(which is why they are there) cos they don't have time yet you want me to use the little time I have to start asking about how risky their works are(even those who are not at risk like the ones I visited this week in the east).

Next time, please don't attack the writer. Contribute meaningfully. And if you must express criticisms, do so constructively. Thank you.

petsam11:
Today 1st September, 2018... red carpets starts by 4 I guess while the main event/awards starts by 6pm (it should be 7pm)... But it's better u are glued to ur TV from 6pm...
Thank me later!
Good Morning!

Wow! Thanks a lot. I can't wait!

budaatum:
Correction!

The owners say:

Perhaps the loss would be significantly less than I thought it would be. So MissJoy29, "What a beautiful sight! God is so wonderful" indeed!

Alright. I hear you. Thanks for the correction.

budaatum:
You are right! Ta.


But I doubt there wouldn't be a considerable loss. Apples falling on one another is bound to bruise more than if they had been carefully plucked off the tree. They do bruise easily.

I grow oranges. If they fall off the tree as opposed to someone climbing the tree to pluck them, they go off quickly due to bruising.

You may be right. But from what they said, there's no considerable loss. So....

budaatum:
I hope you're wrong!

All those apples are wasted. None of them would get to market because they would be damaged when they fell. The poor farmer would lament the loss of his crop because he would earn zero euros from his orchard this season. If he's living on a loan, he'd accrue extra interest because he would not be paying it back from this crop and his livelihood would take a significant hit.

If this is God being wonderful, this farmer would be praying that in future, God goes and does it's business elsewhere please, and bloody leave his apple orchard alone!

I think you are wrong here @bolded.
At least according to the post.

Reread the post again please.

dany5:
You have said it all my dear....The most annoying part is that some passengers dont see anything wrong with over speeding.

I'm telling you! It's so sad. If you look at the damage to the vehicle, you will notice that they were probably on high speed. That's the only explanation as to why it was damaged like that(except they collided with a heavy-duty truck that was on high speed)

patrickcollins:
Guy na lie u dey talk, the Lady u wan marry u come see her pics scatter internet, psychological u will be destabilized, so the best remedy girls pls don't share ur nude pics with any man, ur husband is not even suppose get ur nude pic for his phone, any man that asks for nude pics is a pervert or sex manic

Supported!

"take it easy" they won't hear. Some passengers were probably telling the driver, "slow down driver! Where you dey go sef? No be only Lagos here".

But he must have carried on. Some passengers will even tell those talkers to keep quiet & allow the driver do his work. They forget that life has no duplicate. Now the driver didn't just slow down. Hell, he didn't even just stop, but he & some passengers may NEVER move again except to be carried to the mortuary or to the grave. It's a pity.

RIP to the dead. God knows the best.

sirBLUNT:
like seriously? he did not offend her? OK,you walked to the doctor's and complain of some strange monthly blood and you asked why is that and he tells you some gibberish and say this is the solution without telling you the cause and hit the internet to know more...then why the hell is a doc?why not stay at home and hit the net if a doc cannot tell you what you need to know...nigerian doc's are one of the most arrogant and obnoxious set of humans always displaying their demi god braggadocio traits in every little chance they got,making the patient look like he's ignorant and worthless. i've been a victim of their arrogancy and pls we should stop encourage them for their stupidity

God Bless you sir! At least someone gets it.

@Amarabae, what you just typed, does it sound right to you?

Besides, where in my post did I mention the word "offence"?

I'm more concerned with the date of the awards than with the hosts.

When's the date?

I just hope this writing will be able to adequately capture my frustration, disappointment & dissatisfaction with the Nigeria Medical Doctors in particular & the Health sector in general.
I also apologise in advance for the long post.

For as long as I can remember, I have always been sceptical about going to hospitals. The attitude of the health workers there are nothing to write home about. Both the private and the public hospitals. Even though I still believe that public hospitals are far better than the private hospitals(especially the average ones) in terms of quality service(although you run the risk of dying before you are attended to due to how slow they are).

There are so many anomalies in our hospitals. I have seen & heard really bizzare stuffs going on. From the nonchalant, impatient and highly unprofessional attitude of the attendants, the unhealthy environment, the cranky and harsh attitude of the nurses, the fact that there's also "who you know mentality" when lives are at stake, the subtle way they bill you unnecessarily by paying for almost everything you do in the hospital(consultation fee, file retrieval fee, unit fee, buying of this & that for your treatment that you will end up leaving for them), the lack of medical equipment, the walking up & down paying for one thing or another at different times(even when you are not fit)instead of paying at once,the number of unqualified & seasoned doctors, the location of a hospital's laboratory on the last floor of a three-storey building(like, who does that!!!!), the high cost of drugs and other medical supplies in the hospital's pharmacy as opposed to their cost outside etc.

But I have a particular area I want to focus on.

THE ATTITUDE OF THE NIGERIAN DOCTOR
This thread was born out of my experiences this week at a teaching hospital. These experiences brought back all the others I have had to push to the back of my mind a long time ago for lack of an appropriate channel to express them. For the purpose of this thread, I'm going to use my experiences at ABSUTH (Abia State Teaching Hospital), LASUTH (Lagos State Teaching Hospital), LUTH (Lagos University Teaching Hospital), National Orthopaedic Hospital Igbobi & few private hospitals as yardsticks to buttress my grievances. I'm also going to put into consideration, the attitude of my close friends who are medical personnels.

Note: I'm not here to compare hospitals. I'm only using them to show that the attitudes of the doctors I met there may actually be same(or at least, almost same) with all of them in the country.

Firstly, if I have met 15 medical doctors, only 1 turned out to be sympathetic and humane. Apart from my family doctors and this sympathetic doctor, I don't think I will ever recognise any of the doctors I have seen again. But after 5 years or so, I still recognised him when I saw him again recently at same hospital(and I have memory problems) Why? He was probably the first doctor I ever saw who actually listened cos they WANT TO not cos they HAVE TO. There's a big difference. Most of them just hear you. They don't listen & they don't allow you talk. That's why they ask you questions based on what THEY THINK you feel & not on what you KNOW you feel.

Secondly, these doctors (except my humane doctor) make it look as if they are doing you a favour when they tell you about your ailment. It's as if they want you to pay consultation fees before they explain in details what you are passing through. What am I saying? One actually told me that! Inasmuch as I think majority of them don't actually know their profession that well, I still wonder why they choose to withhold & hoard information. It's bad enough they don't tell on their own without being asked. But it's even worse they withhold when asked. I have recurring ear ache that comes like every 2 years. This time around I asked the doctor (on the advice of a friend) what the cause of the problem is so I can avoid it. And he opened his mouth & said to me, "get solution first. What do you need the cause for? I was stunned to say the least!
Thirdly, they are always very harsh & impatient. You come in to a doctor's office, 30 seconds later, you are out with a piece of paper filled with their illegible writing just cos they are more concerned with what they are scribbling based on what they THINK you are going through than on what you are actually saying. They are hurrying to see as many patients as possible to collect as much money from them as possible and also to go to their private clinics. So no adequate time allocated to a patient.

Again, because of the attitude of some of these doctors, I'm really not surprised why I detest private hospitals because majorly, they are still the ones that establish it. The main reason why I hardly go to private hospitals is because I don't understand why someone will be, say an E.N.T doctor in a public hospital, but will end up being a GENERAL practitioner in his/her private hospital. They are now automatic Ob/gyn, optometrist, dentists, surgeons, paediatricians etc. I can't count the number of times they have mistreated cases they are supposed to refer to specialists like professionals do.

After venting like this, I'd like to hear from the house. Knowing that people in the medical profession are supposed to be warm, humane, sympathetic, kind, friendly, patient, a listener, polite, knowledgeable, seasoned, capable etc, why then do you think most Nigerian medical doctors are cold, nonchalant, impatient, unkind, harsh, rude, condescending? Is it because that's who they are normally or are there some things in the sector and/or in the training process that turn & change them into the aforementioned? Doctors in the house & non-doctors like me, over to you.

This sounds like my story. I have only about two good female friends worldwide(excluding my sisters of course who are forever bae).

I hate the jealousy, gossip, betrayal, backbiting, backstabbing, ingratitude, covetousness, wickedness/evil and general drama that comes with having a female friend.

Yes it's possible. Been there, done that.
But I don't think I will anymore. I don't like hearing "stories that touch".

What a beautiful sight! God is so wonderful.

PreciousBro:
I think you're way too serious.

I like to think of friendship more like a ride,a process, a movement with endless point of arrival or destination not a state or a room where you enter. My values represent freeness. I'm not a one rule follower. That doesn't guarranty anything. Life is in process. You ordinarilised my values being diff from yours whiles you also imply I'm trying to perforce you to follow mine. I'm not in anyway trying to change your mind but constant related conversations edifies us into better or advance thinkers.

Friendship being a ride by me depicts severity or degree by which we attain and it's in continuity. It could be a sweet smooth ride or a rough timid one but then since there're no rules to things pertaining 'freeness' it connotes spontaneity, Independence. You make it sound like your own perspective in friendship puts you in a higher pedestal. I think if you were a lot freer as claimed contrary to whatever,you'd not think homogenously. You'd be like a bird and fly to both or all sides of a map to be receptive to change and take whom ever emotionally and or psychologically balances with you despite the state of ride or journey, not building blocks or fences simply because you feel it hasn't reached the expected duration like you're on a timer. I was in friendship ville the moment I chatted with you friendly, another level or degree of friendship ville the second time we chatted. It's all in relative doses. The real issue here is more with you caught in the web of a friendship-approach- dilemma. That's why you got heldup at the rememberance of your rules despite all sweet conversations or mood our little relation brought. You reset the whole friendly voyage. LoL

We are all diff and we see things differently so
by the time you perhaps start to see things a little diff from your present state you might understand me.

Truce hunNay!

Remember friendship is not just a state but a ride,a rollercoaster,a wheel that propels you up n down to many states,places, stages. Where some you either like or dislike,love or hate. They transcend into memories.

Good night!

I saw so many things I'd like to counter here but it won't change anything. We are both different. So please, enough with the arguments and blame-throwing & snide remarks. They won't lead us anywhere.

Let's toast to a new foundfriendship! Cheers Precious.

Have a good night sleep.

cronsberg:
Missjoy29 i feel like i have finally found a female that can explain things logically to make me understand. I make bold to say u are the type i will like to date, but then again u will immidiately transform to a typical nigerian girl by foaming hard to get and whatnot(no offence meant). Anyway, i totally understand and agree with ur first and second remark that no one wants to feel sexualized by total strangers (except guys maybe), but i disagree with ur third and fourth remark because the idea of a fling or quickie or spontanous romp sounds awesome and great especially in a good setting. And yes, sex has to be involved in a relationship. Which kind of relationship will it even be without sex, that will be called a friendship but not relationship. Thats my opinion though

It's about forming hard to get. It's about not being available.

I have never had a fling, a quickie, a ONS, random/spontaneous sex etc. I don't think I ever will too. It's just not me. Doesn't mean though that I judge those who do. To each, his own.

Sex doesn't have to be involved in a relationship. There are still people who are/ did the no-sex relationship & they are doing/did fine.

Oh & btw, thanks for the compliments.