Marverick09:
@mnwankwo &loj, maybe the reason I personally despise that statement is because for most crossbearers I perceive an air of importance. . . The first I heard about the 1931 edition, I was made to understand by a crossbearer that those who read it go mad back then so as a result I shyied away. He said those who want to know more are the ones who want to read it. Little did I know I would come across it again online. Then I decided to find out if its true people go mad after reading it. And behold it was all lies and misconception. . . After examining it to see for myself I went a circle and I received the same treatment if wanting to know more and ever since then I hear it so often that I get pieced-off when I do. . . . . . I have been a longtime follower of your post(mnwankwo) and that of justcool as a guest for many years. They are enlightening and in many areas render answers to questions that are within me. The only reason I came down from being a guest is when I realized justcool has examined the 1931 edition. Then I realized I could at least ask some of my questions that still require deep insight since we are somehow on the same page. . . . . . . . . . . . . . But when statements like seeking more is used. I feel disappointed since I feel people who use them are creating an air of importance. . . . . . . . . . . . I have many friends who has told me crossbearers always act arrogantly with knowledge. And I tell them it's true since I experience it too. When one is privilege to read a book others have not read we tend to present it as if the knowledge of the transmission came from us. . . . . . . . . . . I think I would rather go back up as a guest and continue to read post from you guys take what I can leave what I don't comprehend. Rather than come down and ask and then receive the response of wanting to know more. Thanks all the same.

Hello Maverick09. Thanks again for your response. My advice is not meant to discourage you from asking questions when you are moved to. It is simply an advice based on my own experience. You can take it or reject it based on your own intuition. It is shocking that a "crossbearer" will tell you that you will go mad if you examine the 1931 edition. Fear or threat of fear only comes from the darkness and not the Light. To seek for the Truth is the ultimate goal of all creatures and that should never be discouraged. But it is the Spirit that seeks, not the brain. The brain studies and analyses. How does knowing whether Cassandra or Abd-ru-shin incarnated first on Earth lead any human being closer GOD? If you are connected with these events and it becomes necessary for you to know for your own development, you will get the answer without even reading any books including the transmitted writings. However, follow your own intuition and do not accept anything except it resonates deep within you. Stay blessed.

Marverick09:
@Loj, in my perception, there's nothing to be corrected in what you have stated. You are in order. However, the books are available for humanity to take advantage of and examine it's contents. Hence, the reason they were all permitted by the Light to come into existence. Personally, I believe they are meant to be guide into Creation's archive in order for the records to be set straight. But the limitation of the seer in rendering what he perceives correctly as well as the limitation of those who examine the accounts becomes a factor in grasping aright. . . . . We are admonished to examine all books that speak of the Light in the scriptures, and that advice is what I have always heeded. For many a gap in my knowledge are bridged when I examine various books while illuminating them with the Message. . . . . . . I shudder when I hear the statement seeking more is the work of the intellect(Frontal Brain) when Abdrushin in His Message clearly states that many will come after Him who will pick a sentence from His Message and write a whole book. Thereby expanding many a concept that is hidden in a single sentence. Who are those to read the books if reading them is regarded as a sign intellectual weakness of seeking more. . . . . . . . . .Why do Crossbearers always use that line instead of offering an explanation to those who ask if they have the answers, but if they don't have they stay silent rather than say one is seeking more. In most of my discussions with crossbearers, I discovered that those who do not have the answers to questions posed to them are the ones who normally use that line. Those who have the answers gladly offer them without using such lines. While those who see you as a new reader of the Message guide you in their explanation to the point you receive the answers you seek without them stating it categorically to you. And you leave their presence joyfully. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I ask my questions in genuiness so I can fill the gaps within. . . . For He says, "I wish to feel the gaps to questions which have been in the souls of men, and which never leave any serious thinker in peace". . . . . . . I have also noticed that there are many concept in which crossbearers have divergent opposing views held as 100% correct without leaving room for upward review of their views. In my opinion it is being wrong. I am ever evolving in areas I don't understand even if the view is different from the mainstream crossbearers or adherent. Sometimes I get conviction from examining books regarded as forbidden and a gap is bridged. So I think it is not fair to use the statement 'seeking more' in a case I am trying to find clarification. . .That is my submission. Thanks and remain remain blessed.

Hello Maverich09. Thanks for your submissions. There is nothing wrong in examining books written by adherents of the Grail Message and others. However, you have to consider what is of spiritual benefit to you, that is, what will help you to live in the sense of the laws of GOD. Do knowledge of the spiritual histories of the various personalities associated with the Grail Movement take one a step closer to GOD? There is an unhealthy propensity among many that have come across the book form of the Grail Message, and that is "they want to know more and more". But the Grail Message is the living Truth in its original and must be experienced. The book form of the Grail Message is meant to be a signpost directing each of us to the road of the living Truth (the Living Grail Message). If we follow that road, we will undergo billions of experiences that will bring us to the recognition of the Truth. What many seekers do is that the gaze at the signpost, analyze the signpost and come up with new questions, and yet they can very easily find all the answers they need if the follow the road that the signpost is pointing to. Clearly and lucidly, both the messages of Jesus and Abd-ru-Shin have shown us the way to the luminous kingdom of GOD. Both messages admonished us to love and this LOVE is the secret to ascent to the kingdom of GOD. It is also the secret that will give us answers that we need for our spiritual development. To love GOD and his creations does not require journey into the spiritual histories of individuals that are at one time envoys, apostles or disciples of GOD. If such a knowledge becomes necessary for ones development, then it will be revealed to him or her.

Yes, some adherents of the Grail Message may warn seekers against asking such questions because they have no answer. However, some few know (blessed with the ability to consciously draw from the book of Life) the answer and can clearly "see" that such questions will be of no benefit to the seeker and may actually lead him or her astray, hence their unwillingness to answer and the warning to consider only those things that is of spiritual benefit. With few exceptions, those that ask questions have not yet experienced the Grail Message but merely have studied or analysed it. When one has absorbed the power of GOD that comes from experiencing the Truth, one has only one inner desire: to love GOD and all creations. All questions vanish for in the power of GOD, an answer is already provided to such a soul before the brain has the chance to to put it into earthly form. In the luminous regions of creations, there are only beings who perpetually swing in the Laws of GOD and not those who want to know more or more. In wanting to know more and more, we actually know nothing but in not knowing we actually come to know of everything that is of spiritual benefit to us. This my last sentence may appear as a paradox but it summarizes everything I have been trying to say. Stay blessed.

Fefe43:
Hi every1... Hello @m_nwankwo I feel blessed having dis forum 2 strengthen me. I have read d Grail message up 2 vol.2 but @ some point I lost courage,buh dis site has given me an inner urge 2 carry on! Pls sir... Dis is my email...Uoguaka@yahoo.com . I ve a lot of questions 4 clarification and I believe ur perception of d Grail message can be of help 2 me! Looking 4ward 2 talk 2 u! I started all over 4rm Vol 1. I am @ d lecture"The world" Thanks 4 ur time...!

Hello Fefe43. Thank you for your kind words. You can send me a personal message on this site and I will reply to it. I wish you strength as you seek for the Truth. Stay blessed.

MizMyColi:


Thank you, and good evening.
I think I have some answers, but to establish base facts,
One pertinent question I would like to ask you is this...

Who is God?
What does God mean to you?
Are you a Christian, if yes, do you believe that your God is superior to every other God out there?

Hello. Thanks for your reply. My brief answer to your questions are penciled below:
1. God is LIFE, the the eternal source for all that is, the creator of all the worlds and its self-conscious, conscious and unconscious inhabitants.
2. The eternal living POWER who in his incomprehensible grace created me, and imbued me with the talents to find and experience supreme happiness in his wonderful creations
3. I am a servant of God and his son Jesus Christ. But I do not adhere to any religion, Christianity or otherwise. God is God and no religion, sect or philosophy can lay claim to "owning" God. Is it not an irony, even sacrilegious for creatures to claim that the creator (God) belongs to them. All creatures have the potential or talent to find the living God. Stay blessed.

MizMyColi:


There is no spiritual truth that you will be told now, that deep within you, you do not know already.
What anyone can do is to remind you of that which you have long forgotten.
Then a living knowledge, ancient, yet ever new, is brought about to your immediate consciousness.


One of the things which the writer seeks to point out is that which is FALSE within us. This is as it relates to the nature of human consciousness and dysfunction. This falseness which seeks to perpetuate itself in us manifests through the wars we fight against one another, strifes in our relationships, anxieties, worries, depressions...etc.

Hello MizMycoli. Thanks for the thread. The fundamental issue that one has to clarify is to "define" what consciousnesses is and ascertain if there are gradations of consciousnesses or if consciousnesses is one and the same. Is the consciousness that is in GOD the same as the consciousnesses that are in human beings? Do bacteria, viruses, etc "have" consciousnesses? Are all consciousnesses eternal or are there gradations of it that began at point? These questions are important if an inference is to be made on whether all truth slumber in us, awaiting awaking or if some truth lie above us and can only come to us by the grace of GOD via revelation or if some truth are completely beyond us that we will never know of it either by personal experiencing or by revelation. Stay blessed

OLAADEGBU:

I know it is difficult to define time but God created time and it is impossible for God to become what He has created. Whatever God created has a beginning and will therefore have an end. God does not have a beginning neither does He have an end, He is eternal. Eternity is the lifetime of the never dying God. If God lives in eternity can you then measure how old God is?
God who created time is outside of time. He is not bound by the restriction of time. His perception of time is different to ours and He can see the three divisions of time (past, present and future) at one glance.
Thanks for the effort you took in responding to my question. The Book of Genesis starts with: "In the beginning God created heaven and earth" That tells me that time was created in the beginning for mankind to measure days, seasons, years, decades, millennia etc. Since the Fall of man in the Garden of Eden man has been forbidding to use his spirit for astral travels and any attempt to do that will lead to him having the wrath of God with it's tending consequences. If we are to travel outside this dimension it must be by God's permission and we can only get that when we repent from our sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness and remission of our sins. It is only after this that the Spirit of God will be reconnected to our spirits as we are submissive to His will for our lives. He may then decide to use our spirits to worship Him or travel out of this earth into eternity and back to tell the story. God bless you.

Hi Olaadegbu. Thanks for your reply. Love, Truth, Light, Time, etc are all attributes that is in GOD and inseparable from GOD. You can find reflections or copies or images of these attributes of GOD in creations but an image or a likeness is not the original. This explains why a creature or being can never become the living Truth, Love, Time or Light. The Living Time just like the Living Truth or the Living Love is eternal. It has no beginning nor end. You cannot reject the fact that the Love of GOD is eternal just because a coarser reflection of it found in human love has a beginning and an end. Apply the same reasoning with respect to time and you may decipher that a physical concept of time which has a beginning and an end is not a contradiction to the Living Time which is eternal.

I respect your beliefs but I do not agree with them. Human beings transcend the concept of earthly time and space everyday and their is no magic about it. Take your dreams for instance. One can experience an entire life time of 70-120 years just in five seconds. In dreams, sudden cognition/precognition, prophesy, intuitive awareness, etc, the ordinary man experiences the relativity of space and time. Stay blessed.

OLAADEGBU:
Will we experience time in heaven? Is there such a thing as time in eternity? Will we be timeless in heaven? What do you think?

Hi Olaadegbu. This is a deep question. What is Time? Time is not perception or a measure of distance between two points or a measure of speed between an action and reaction or a measure of the distance between the beginning and the end. Time has nothing to do with all the concepts that we ascribe to time. In reality, Time is eternal, infinite, unchangeable. Time is GOD or specifically Time is an an attribute that is in GOD. Thus Time has no beginning and no end. This also means that no being or creature can experience Time. Time is in GOD and only GOD can experience Time. The ability to withstand the pressure that comes from the power of GOD is what we (everything that is not GOD) perceive as time. This perception is dependent on the origin of the creature/being as well as its purity. Those beings and creatures that originated or exists closer to the living power of GOD can consciously experience the pressure out of the power of GOD. That means they can consciously experience the motion generated by the pressure of the power of GOD. The closer to the power of GOD, the more intense the motion and the "faster" the experiences, that is, the shorter the cosmic distance between an action and reaction or between the beginning and the end. Consequently, creatures or beings near the "proximity of GOD" can experience the beginning and the end simultaneously such that their perception or experience of time appear instantaneous. It will thus appear to those creatures that there is an awareness of timelessness.[b][/b].

The perception of time or no perception of time is relative and not absolute. Thus the awareness of time varies depending at how close or far a being or creature is to the living power of GOD. Thus their are different awareness of time in all spheres of existence. It follows that their is earthly time, ethereal time, spiritual time, divine time, etc. An event that will take a thousand earth years will be like a day on the ethereal plane and a minute in heaven. That simply means that a man in heaven can experience in one minute what it will take 1000 years to experience on earth if the same man is experiencing on earth instead of heaven. The reason is that heaven, the spiritual kingdom of GOD is closer to the motion/pressure that emanates from the living power of GOD. Now what a man in the ethereal sphere (non-physical matter) will experience as timelessness, the man in a higher sphere heaven for instance will see that the same experience is not timeless and can map such experience from its beginning to the end. Similarly a man on a lower sphere like the earth will not be able to recognize such ethereal timelessness because it lies beyond his own inner purity or density.

What we refer to awareness of time are relative and corresponds to the plane of creation or realm to which we are spiritually attuned to. The closer we are to the living power of GOD, the faster the motion, the more vivid the colors, the brighter the light and the more melodious the sound. Therefore their is time in heaven but it is a higher and faster manifestation of time than what we are used to on earth . In addition the experience of timelessness is also relative and is valid for a particular sphere of existence and not others. Thus a spirit who for some reason is catapulted to some higher plane of existence may experience timelessness but this experience is only valid for that plane. Beings in spheres higher than the "higher plane" I mentioned before will perceive that experience as within time. Rightly understood, the living Time is only in GOD and only GOD experiences Timelessness in reality. Whatever any being or creature experiences as timelessness is not real but only a perception of how close he or she is to the the substantially cooled off pressure emanating from the living power of GOD. Stay blessed.

demomap:
M_nwankwo

Good day to you
am an adherent to the grail message also
and i will like to get associated to you all in this
thread.

Thanks
and stay blessed!

Hi demomap. Good day to you too. Welcome to the thread. Stay blessed.

Martian:

As usual, verbose nonsense. I like how you show the greatness of GOD by capitalizing the word GOD. Let me stop before GOD decides to disintegrate the universe out of anger.
At least your god.......excuse me, GOD, sends messengers to everyone. Forgive me, I took the liberty of adding some names to your list.

Hi Martian. You are free to do whatever you want with my submission. That is the beauty of free will. I am absolutely indifferent to how discussants see or interpret my submissions. I am unmoved either by mockery or praise to my posts. Let each person make out of it whatever he or she wants to make out of it. As always, stay blessed.

@OP

The purpose for which God created us is to find supreme joy and radiant happiness. The power of GOD did not only create the worlds but drives its birth, growth, maturity, death, decay and renewal or rebirth. The power of GOD ensures that at each stage in the cosmic cycle, all creatures including man is given the opportunity to find supreme happiness and radiant joy. Man can only evolve into this supreme happiness if all his activities (words, action, imagination, thoughts, intent and intuition) are in sync with the will or laws of GOD. To enable man to know of these laws and indeed adapt to them, GOD sends his servants to this world to teach men the truth and also give them the power to adhere to this Truth if they so desire. These servants of GOD were sent to different cultures and at different epochs with the message of GOD specifically adapted to the spiritual maturity of the people. Moses, Hjalfdar, Krishna, Buddha, Laotse, Moha.med, John the Baptist, Lorber, Rudolf Stainer, etc were some of these messengers. They brought to their people, the truth about GOD that was adapted to the spiritual maturity of their various people. Had their message been kept pure by their followers, their messages will not contradict each other as it is apparent today but will form a single flight of steps leading to GOD.

All that is subsequently created (all material universes and its physically invisible counterparts) follow a cycle of birth, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, old age , senescence, death and rebirth. The earth was a training ground for human spirits who once left the spiritual kingdom of GOD as spirit seeds. Experiencing in the material creations including the earth will enable these spirit seeds to evolve into an image of the image of GOD with consciousnesses and a name. Supreme happiness can only become an intrinsic "part" of the human spirit when it has evolved into the likeness of the image of GOD. This natural spiritual evolution is only possible as long as material creations remain in existence. There is a a cosmic funnel above the physically invisible part of material creation where seeds that will evolve into material universes are spewed out while the rear of this cosmic funnel draws all that has decayed or died into disintegration so that they are again spewed out for a new birth. Now the power of GOD drives all that is is of matter to this cosmic funnel. Our universe and all the is in it will one day pass through this purifying cosmic funnel. Due to sin (a consequence of the fall of man), our earth become ethereally dense and was heading for a premature disintegration, a process that would have terminated the development of a majority of the human spirits and literally effaced them from the book of life.

The power and the strength of the messengers of GOD were insufficient to stop the premature disintegration of our earth. Here and there, their are few souls who are yearning for salvation in the midst of suffocating darkness. The love of GOD will not allow even one soul that is yearning for salvation to perish. It is because of these few souls that GOD incarnated a "living part of Himself in male sex" who thus became a son of GOD for he is one and inseparable from GOD the father. Thus Jesus, being the living Light, anchored the light of GOD on earth as well as established a direct path of the light from the earth to GOD the father. The unsubstaantiate power emanating from the Living light (Jesus Christ) forcefully pulled our earth from its premature disintegration, giving humanity more time to save themselves from the darkness that they have created. With his words Jesus also gave men the path leading to his father and by his power, he gave those who are willing the strength to follow this path. Jesus can only show men the path to his Father and the power to follow it but cannot force it on anyone.

To answer your question, Jesus have saved the world by preventing the earth (our school) from premature disintegration and by showing us the path to the Truth as well as the power to follow that path and find supreme happiness. Not even GOD can abrogate the freewill of man and thus, the son of GOD will not force men to follow the path of Truth. It is left for each individual to live in the sense of the Truth that Jesus brought to us or live in opposition to them. That choice is free but the consequences are irrevocable. With our free will, we can have the radiant bliss of heaven or the darkness of hell. Stay blessed.

FOLYKAZE:

You said you are busy. Would watch from the sideline.


Make I hold my question as for now,.

Hi Folykase. You can ask your questions or hold them. If you do not mind my late response to them, you can ask them now but if you want an immediate response, then hold your questions till next week. Stay blessed.

plaetton: Great Thread, Folykaze.

I have actually been planning to open a similar thread to challenge and debunk this much talked about "Freewill , or Free Volitions of man" . I wanted to do so in response to a post by our well respected MNwankwo about a week or so ago. Like you, I intend to show that man, in reality, has no free will, that biologically, behaviorily and socially , human behavior is only a product of darwinian urges.

In other words, man is simply a slightly advanced and glorified animal, but an animal nevertheless. There is nothing divine about humans. There is no divine goodness etched into our beings. All human behaviors are reactions to biological and electromagnetic(visible and invisible) stimuli to meet needs, deal with fears and anxieties.

All our actions, whether it is virtue , vice, peace or war are determined by the biological and electromagnetic environments combined with our social Darwinian calculus at any given time.

So, for the promoters of " man has a freewill" , I challenge you all to a debate, either on this thread or a new one to be opened.
Cc: MNwankwo, Anony, Deepsight, Joshthefirst, Frosbel, etc.

Hi Plaetton. Always nice to read from you. Please feel free to open a thread to debunk freewill. I am very busy at the moment but will be a little bit free in a weeks time. I will then address point-to-point whatever thesis you have propounded on the non-existence of free will. In passing, let me say this. Your body, the neurotransmitters, the chemicals, the environment in which the body operates are consequences or reactions of free volition that originated from the spirit of Man. Those who like you claim that the genes and the environment that allow the genes to be expressed are the major drivers of how we behave forget that the genes, its expressed phenotypes are the consequences of free-willed volition. At the heart of this proposed debate will be the origin of consciousnesses and whether or not it is tied to the brain or completely independent of the brain. As always, stay blessed.

@ Plaetton. Thank you for your comment. I reply as follows:

In the absesnce of evidence to prove otherwise, I boldly assert that this, the bolded) is most likely the case.

There is evidence but some people either refuse to see or are incapable of seeing. Sometimes, one keeps silence in the knowledge that the skeptics will one day find the evidence in their own experience. Experience is and will always be the best teacher.

Dear MNwankwo,

As an admirer of your posts, it's hard to for me to disagree with much of what you have written here, except of course, that my universe runs freely on its own and does not include designer or creator god.

Thank for your kind words. You are entitled to your world view and I respect that. However, I am opposed to it for in my own experience, the universe and all that is in it is a creation of GOD. The universe is not eternal; it began at some point and will end at some point. Whatever has a beginning cannot run freely on its own. It is dependent and derives its existence from something else. In this case the universe and all creations are dependent on GOD. GOD is eternal, self-existent and absolutely independent of everything else. If the universe is not the creation of GOD as you assert, then the universe must be shown to be eternal and self existent. Until now, nobody have shown that the universe is eternal and I guarantee you (at the risk of sounding arrogant) that nobody will be able to demonstrate it for the universe is just a work of GOD or to be more correct a creation of some primordial servants of GOD.

First, I think it is always an error to assume and assert that the humans species are so special, that all of nature and creatures were created around our needs for our ultimate joy and happiness. We should be reminded that we share this particular nonedescript planet, this grain of sand in the cosmic desert with billions of other living species, each vying for survival, and I suppose, supreme joy and radiant happiness too.

What gives us supreme joy and radiant happiness may not , and has evidently not given the same to billions of our other terrestrial relatives and neighbors. Therefore, supreme joy and radiant happiness may be relative afterall. smiley

The whole creations of GOD resonate in jubilant joy and radiant happiness except in circumstances where man has interfered with the cosmic order by misapplication of his free will. In the observable and non-observable universes in the world of matter, man is special because he is the only creature that bears the animating core called spirit. Spirit is meant to transform what men call nature by making it a coarse replica of the spiritual kingdom of GOD. The human spirit is of a species higher than the animal souls. The plant itself has no soul but serves as a temporal cloak for some nature beings. Compared to all creations of GOD, the human spirit is a speck because there are several species in existence higher than the human spirit but compared to the world of matter including what men refer to as nature, the human spirit is the highest species and intrinsically possess the strongest influence and its volition impacts heavily in its surroundings. Several species work in tandem to help the human spirit to mature in the sense of the laws of GOD and in giving themselves to the development of the human spirit, they also in reciprocity evolve and mature to higher state. I can return to details about this if I sense it is necessary.

If you talk of spiritual evolution, then it should not be hard to talk of biological evolution of all living species and the social evolution of the human species too.
If you study these in dept, you will see no evidence of any God purposefully imbuing any creature or humans with any talents. You will only infer such if that is what you want to infer.
All creatures have features and talents that have evolved over the eons to enable them survive. In the evolutionary game of survival, one creature's supreme joy and radiant happiness would equally mean another creature's eternal nightmare, if not extinction.

If survival is the force that drives evolution, then only those abilities that enable a creature or population to survive will thrive. But that is not the case. There are examples where species have developed abilities that will actually eliminate them. Why would a stranger throw himself into a burning house to save a family he does not even know? How does adaptation (biological evolution) explain self-awareness, consciousnesses, conscience, love? Yes all creatures adapt but they follow a blueprint that is intrinsically written in their nature by the laws of GOD. I do not agree that evolution is driven by survival, rather evolution is driven by the laws of GOD. These laws create the environment and drive the selection of traits that will lead to the pre-ordained creature, and when the goal of the pre-ordained creature is reached, further speciation is eliminated. If evolution is driven by survival, then the terminal taxa in an evolutionary tree will be subject to further speciation and the emergence of new species as they continually adapt to the enviroment. The fact that terminal taxa like man, dogs, cats, crocodiles have ceased to evolve (macro-evolution and speciation) strongly argues against evolution being self-driven or being driven by survival.

You can't tell me that chickens are bred in cages, forced-fed, and then mass-slaughtered for our supreme enjoyment because of the misapplication of their freewill or karma.

Predator or Prey, It is simply a matter of a creature's position in the food chain.

Chicken has no free will. They have a soul that is not personal. In nourishing our bodies, they also develop and evolve. Therefore when they are slaughtered for the purpose of nourishing the human physical bodies, they are fulfilling the role for which they were created. Since they intrinsically have no free will, then no sin is committed in eating them for the nourishment of our bodies. If however they are slaughtered for entertainment or sport, then a crime is committed for God didn't create them for the entertainment of men. When I have more time, I will show you step by step evolution of the human body and how its dependent on animal protein was not in the original design by GOD. The human body was originally designed to be dependent on plant for nutrition and nourishment but yet again man made fundamental changes to his body that temporary necessitates dependent on animals for food and nourishment.

From what we know so far, there is no evidence that the universe does or ever needed a conscious and purposeful god.
If god exists, then god could not and should never have been a mystery.

Now, if on the other hand, like most honest deist would say, that god is a mystery, then we should treat god like all other mysteries of the universe-.. we should seek to solve it.

Can you provide the evidence to show that the universe was not created by a counscious and purposeful God?
The will of GOD or his ways is not a mystery. The language of God is indelibly written in our spirit and in all creations. The deist who says that GOD is a mystery is ignorant and lacks personal experience of the power of GOD. Rather, it is a mystery that many men go through life without a conscious recognition of God.

In trying to understand or solve the mystery of god, who or what system of inquiry is most competent to solve or at the least, lead the search for god?

Well, my answer is simple, and I reiterate as before that,
Only empirical science can search... and perhaps ultimately solve the mystery of god.

Science and its tools are bound to the physical limitation of time and space. Science is presently bound to the brain, the human intellect. The human intellect is designed to understand physical realities. It is incapable of understanding non-physical realities. God, eternity, infinity, will remain a mystery to the intellect. To know of GOD, one must use intuition, the faculty of the spirit. A future science will be born when the intellect can take direction and revelation from intuition. Through such a bridge, the science of the future will be permitted some glimpses into other worlds. Until then, science as it is presently practiced is incapable of finding and knowing of God. I have carried out scientific investigation at the top level for two decades and I am convinced that science will not find GOD or discover his ways. As always stay blessed.

Kay17:

. . . And it is self evident that all civilizations have built longlasting myths and religions to iron out and resolve meaningless living and suffering. However most of these religions are protected from scrutiny by Faith. A well guarded religion is hardly vulnerable to criticism as we can see in Christianity, Hinduism, Islam. Same goes your explanation for the suffering in the world. It is a product of intuition (which is beyond the region of reason and scrutiny). There is no way one can ascertain there was a prelife and an eternal responsibility attached to it.

2. Also, to blame people for their misfortunes and sufferings is hardly kind and is an act of cruelty. To assume people deserve their pains and hardships, to assume Jews and Tutsis deserved to be butchered, to assume war and rape victims deserve their pains; kills the necessary empathy we have to share with them in order to lessen their sufferings. And without empathy, there is no love.

Hi Kay. Thanks again for your comment. I address them below:

1. I previously said that if one want to know the truth, one must experience each moment. Standing outside of experiences and analyzing them will not get one far. I have said that the seed we sow return to us as fruits. There is nothing magical or esoteric about it. It is a very simple statement that can very easily be verified by each of us. No training or exercises are required. Let each of us keep the hearth of our thoughts pure and see if our inward and outward life remain the same or dramatically changes. The spirit is blessed with the faculty of intuition and with this faculty, one can easily draw from out of creation events and circumstances that has happened, is happening and will happen. There is a way to be conscious of pre and after life and it is quite simple. Open the ears and eyes of the spirit. This can very easily be done by genuine love for all that exists. Love has the power to unbound the spirit, its faculty of intuition from the shackles of the brain. When this intuitive faculty is open, the link between action and reaction, sowing and reaping can be seen as well as the physical evidence that some of you so much clamor for.

2. You seem not to have understood my previous post. I have clearly said that what happens to us can be as a result of (i)the fruits of our seeds, (ii) mission karma, (iii) victim of misapplication or wrong use of free will by others. Only the man who is permitted to see all the threads of fate can make a judgement on which of the three or combination of any of the three is applicable in any given situation. It is for this reason that men are warned not to judge. Not that judgement is wrong but most men do not have the inner knowledge to make the correct judgement. Thus they judge by externals and end up with wrong or incorrect judgement. In addition, the returning reciprocal actions to individuals, groups and nations does not require the participation of men. If a man is to be murdered because he was a murderer in a former earth-life, the murderous returning reciprocal action will form his non- earthly environment. Another human being who is also a murderer or has the propensity to murder will pick up this vibration and go on to murder this man. However if the returning reciprocal action does not find homogeneity in other human beings, then this man may fall in his own sword or the loaded gun in his pocket will explode. I mention this so that one can see that the returning reciprocal actions does not need the help of human hands.

I also have mentioned that the laws of GOD has two inherent attributes, that is, justice and love. The tasting of the fruit that we sowed is just for it permits us to know in real time whether the seeds we sowed are evil or good. It is love for it gives us the opportunity to repent of our evil seeds and the strength to sow good seeds. A child did not study and as a consequence failed his exams. Will you magically convert an F-grade to A-grade? It is just that the child got an F-grade for that is what his performance deserves. A good teacher will show the child where he is lacking and provide him the opportunity to correct his mistakes. Such opportunity may come with a repetition of the class as well as extra-lessons. Is there a love greater than given the student (in this example) the opportunity to correct his weaknesses and become a real A-student? This is a crude analogy but it demonstrates the manifestation of the laws of GOD in the twin attributes of justice and love. In the experiencing of the fruits of our seeds lies both justice and love, as well as forgiveness and redemption. Contrarily to the way you see it, one of the attributes of genuine love is sympathetic understanding. Love does not pretend that a problem does not exist, it recognizes the problem and confronts it, not accusingly but with a solution that will resolve the problem. Therefore true love can sometimes appear harsh on the surface but in the end it will lead to the ennoblement of an individual or group. My 17 month old daughter like to stick her finger into electric sockets. If I allow her to do that, she will smile but may one day get electrocuted or injure herself. If I pluck the electric sockets, she complains since she can no longer stick her fingers in it. It will be irresponsible to leave the electric sockets unplugged just because it makes her happy. I also think it is easy to see that it is love to pluck the sockets even though it makes her unhappy.

War, r.ape and all the other atrocities are not the will of GOD for us. They are abbe rations that came into existence as a result of misapplication of the powers inherent in the laws of GOD. Wars, rape, genocide, etc will cease if we men start to live in the sense of the laws of GOD. Stay blessed.

Kay17:

Good. We are on the same page. You see our prelife freewilled actions as the principal cause of meaningless suffering and hardship, but note we are humans with a physical disposition and our perspectives shall always be earthly (in the sense that we are bound to accept what our senses and mind tell us). Couldn't it be that when we are confronted with meaningless sufferings and being rational and psychological beings, we invent a meaningful cause so as to mettle down the burden we face from meaningless suffering. So that life becomes liveable.

I'm not making an assertion that it is the case, but that we humans have that capability and possibly use to accommodate suffering.

Hi Kay. Thanks for your comment. Yes, it is possible that some human beings may invent reasons to rationalize evil and suffering. But inventions and rationalizations will sooner rather than later be found out. The will of GOD manifests in the irrevocable march of events and these events will show the individual, groups or nations that the rationalizations or inventions are not true or real. In the experience of these events, they will find contradictions and clear reasons which contradict the excuses or rationalization. In the search for the Truth, one must not be a spectator but be immersed in the experience of each moment. If we experience every second in full consciousness, we will very soon perceive the non-material worlds where our threads of fate originated. We can then with clinical precision follow the threads of fate and find the basis for all reactions in our lives and that of others. We will have the evidence that that the good and bad things that happen to us are not arbitrary or random but are consequences of our free volition. Not only that, we can also see that it is possible to change our fate and stir it in a different direction. Our spirit will then unfold with the deepest gratitude to GOD, who created the laws by which men can raise themselves to the kingdom of GOD or descend to the realms of darkness. It lies within us to have the light of heaven or the darkness of hell. The freewill is a sacred gift that GOD gave to us. It is so sacred that we can use it even against GOD who gave us the gift. But then, only the choice is free. Man is irrevocably bound to the consequences of his free-willed choices. Stay blessed.

Kay17:

In other words, human suffering is not in God's plan, since the plan is to produce supreme joy and happiness whereas human suffering is the direct opposite to that. Yet without the prelife actions which you believe sufficiently explains the suffering and evil we see today, you would agree with most atheists like Seun that meaningless suffering and evil is an antithesis to a loving God. Right?

Hi Kay. Thanks for your comment. Yes, human suffering, disease, evil and similar things are not the will of GOD for us. No sane earthly father wishes evil for his children. How much more GOD, who is the creator, the source of Living Love. Indeed GOD is the Living Love. Our choices in former lives is just a consequence of free will. Therefore the correct explanation for suffering is the misuse of free will by those creatures that intrinsically possess that ability of free will. As I said previously, our choices in our former incarnations, in the present incarnation as well as in other non-physical planes that we have sojourned forms our fate. As one prophet of GOD once said "As men stir their little ship of life, so will it glide through the water of life". A deep understanding of freewill will solve all the mysteries about the origin of evil, suffering and similar things. Evil, disease, suffering, etc came into existence as a result of misapplication of the power of GOD. A misapplication or wrong union of the powers of GOD that pulsate in creation will result in diseases, suffering, evil, etc. God does not, and indeed cannot misapply his own powers. Thus it is impossible for GOD to create suffering, evil and similar things. Creatures with free will can apply the power of GOD according to their own volition. If they use it according to the intrinsic nature of these powers, they will create or form good but if they mix the powers in ways that are opposed to the intrinsic nature of these powers, they will form evil and wrong unions. Like a potter with clay in his hands, man has the choice to mold the clay into beautiful works of arts or turn it into nuclear bombs. The fruit cannot be different from the seed. The evil that we see today is a very clear evidence that we as individuals, communities, groups and nations have been sowing evil seeds.

If each of us start from today to will what is pure and noble in all our activities, the evil will gradually loose it grip and will entirely cease to exist. Evil and suffering are aberrations brought about by misapplication of the powers inherent in the laws of GOD. Just look at the man of today. He abuses his physical body by over-eaten, smoking, alcohol consumption, sedentary life style, shallow breathing, etc and abuses his soul bodies by impure and ignoble thoughts of lust, envy, jealousy, maliciousness, etc, and when as a consequences of these misapplication he succumbs to one illness or the other, then he will either say it is Gods will or the work of the devil. It is neither the will of GOD nor the work of the devil but a consequence of his free-willed choices. Those who do not abuse their physical or soul bodies anymore but are struck by one illness or the other are (i) harvesting the fruits of the abuse they once sowed in a former existence, (ii) prenatally accepted the illness or suffering in order to be equipped for a particular mission (for example one can prenatally accept to experience cancer in order to find its cure in a later incarnation or accept to aid the work of a son of God by being blind such that when he crosses the path of the divine messenger, his sight will be restored and such a miracle can awaken some sleeping souls from spiritual slumber), and (iii) a victim of misapplication of the the laws of GOD by other human beings. Since on earth, good and evil people dwell side by side, the possibility exist that the third option may happen but the laws of GOD will compensate such a victim. It is a prize that we may sometimes pay because we wanted to experience on earth. No body is forced to come on earth. We are here because we asked for it and our request was granted by God. Stay blessed.

@ mnwankwo

As always I enjoy reading your posts. Long time since though. Nice to see you again.

I often find myself... almost agreeing with you, but not quite. I start out thinking, YES he's got it!! This part I absolutely love:"Man is that he might have joy"

Hi texanomaly. Thank you for your kind words. Nice to read from you too.

Then suddenly I'm not quite sure anymore. I don't discard anything you say, mind you. I simply have, as yet, to embrace all of it. I do like the way you think though. We are all in different places spiritually, and I can appreciate most views.

It is essential that you follow your own intuition. Thus if your spirit do not agree with some of the things that I say, then, reject them even if they are the truth. However, If your spirit is unsure, then do not ponder or analyse. Simply switch off all brain activity and your spirit will gain connection to the power of GOD and in this connection you will sense and know the Truth.

I wasn't going to share this outside my diary, but what the heck..,people think I'm crazy anyway.


https://www.nairaland.com/1342944/tex-talk/2#24499334


As always... A pleasure.

I could not access the link you provided because it seem the thread is locked. As always, stay blessed.

Verbose nonsense.

Of course, Deep Sight agrees. The more woo woo involved, the happier deep sight is.
I wonder if you two reincarnated as mountain goats in your previous lives.

Hi Martian. Thank you for your comment. Ofcourse, I do not share your sentiment. But you are welcome to comment or even mock my posts. As always stay blessed.

PastorAIO: "I've been a deep believer my whole life. 18 years as a Southern Baptist. More than 40 years as a mainline Protestant. I'm an ordained pastor. But it's just stopped making sense to me. You see people doing terrible things in the name of religion, and you think: 'Those people believe just as strongly as I do. They're just as convinced as I am.' And it just doesn't make sense anymore. It doesn't make sense to believe in a God that dabbles in people's lives. If a plane crashes, and one person survives, everyone thanks God. They say: 'God had a purpose for that person. God saved her for a reason!' Do we not realize how cruel that is? Do we not realize how cruel it is to say that if God had a purpose for that person, he also had a purpose in killing everyone else on that plane? And a purpose in starving millions of children? A purpose in slavery and genocide? For every time you say that there's a purpose behind one person's success, you invalidate billions of people. You say there is a purpose to their suffering. And that's just cruel."

http://www.humansofnewyork.com/post/90268158526/ive-been-a-deep-believer-my-whole-life-18-years

Please let's discuss this.

The purpose for which God - the creator created and imbued us with the talents or faculties is for us to find supreme joy and radiant happiness. The ultimate goal of spiritual evolution is to transform the talents inherent in the spirit (man) into abilities. Once these abilities become alive in a man, they will naturally place him or her in sync with the power of God, the creator. A man who have established this link with GOD will sense inner happiness and supreme joy. Whether such a man is rich or poor, healthy or sick, he bears peace within himself for the power of GOD to which he is linked will show him with clinical precision the how and why of his present situation. God doesn't will suffering or evil for any of his creatures, Suffering and evil simply arose as a consequence of misapplication of the power of GOD by those creatures that are blessed with the ability of free will. Man who is spirit is one of such creatures.

The problem with many people as the look at events in their own life and the world is that they look at externals and judge with only the physical faculties. Like the quotation in the opening post, they cannot find sense in what is happening in the world and question why God allow all these evil and injustice. A subplot to this assertion is that in their view, God doesn't exist if these terrible things happen to people. The origin of what many people are experiencing does not lie in the form or physical manifestation of the experience but in spiritual acts of free will which the person is not even conscious in the earthly sense. The origin of these spiritual decisions lie in most cases in a previous earth-life or from decisions taken in a non-physical plane. As the Igbo`s say, if you ask a man who didn't witness when a corpse was buried to exhume a corpse, he will start digging from the knee (wrong position). Before we were conceived, we are already in existence and we will be in existence after the so called physical death. In reality we have been in existence for millions of years both in physical and non-physical planes and with multifarious sojourns on earth (reincarnation). These experiences in various planes is one single continuum, and these experiences which are a consequence of our free free will form the tapestry of our fate. Billions of new threads are added to this tapestry of fate every hour as we make decisions and these new threads affect the sound and color of the tapestry of fate. In a single earth-life, only some few threads have ripened for harvest, and thus only the consequences of a small section are experienced in one earth life. Now a man who judges only by the faculties of the brain do not see the entire tapestry of fate, do not even seen the few threads that has ripened for harvest, but only see the physical manifestation of these few threads. Without knowing how the come about, how they were formed, how the matured and ripened for harvest, they stand confused at the fruit since they are not aware in the earthly sense of who, where, when the seeds were sowed. If this harvest is bad, they say it is evil and if it is good, they say its providence. But the reality is that God does not send blessing or curse to anyone, rather his adamantine laws (the will of GOD) return to each individual, groups, nations, the entire humanity the fruits of the seeds that they sowed. The adamantine laws of GOD are inherently imbued with the twin attributes of love and justice. Therefor no injustice can be found in the manifestation of the divine will. Whatever happens to us is a consequence of our free will. It can be (i) the fruits of the seeds we sowed, (ii) fruits of the seeds that others sowed but we accepted prenatally to experience them for the purpose of our own development, as a mission karma or as a result of accepting to experience on earth where both good and evil dwell side by side.

It is still a bit of surprise to me that some men think they will enter heaven with national flags or religious anthems. You religion, sex, status, nationality, etc is of no consequence to the laws of GOD, rather it is the activities of your spirit that the laws of GOD animate and which in turn will either lead one to the luminous kingdom of GOD or propel one to the realm of darkness and eventual spiritual death. Our motive, words, imagination, thoughts and intuition are what count before the laws of GOD. What a man sows, he reaps and his religious or nationalistic beliefs will not alter that. A christian who sows yam will harvest yam, the same goes for m.oslems, Buddhists, atheist, etc. A murderer remains a murderer irrespective of his religious beliefs. An act of genuine love remains the same and it is immaterial whether the perpetrator of such an act is a christian, m.oslem, Jew or an atheist. Look around and you will clearly see that good and bad things happen to people of different religions and beliefs. This should already be a pointer that the laws of GOD are quite different from what many think it is, and that these laws have nothing to do with the cloak of religious beliefs or affiliation. Stay blessed

I hope that time will permit me to give my own perception on this very important topic. In the interim, I think that a review article entitled "About the continuity of our consciousness" by the renowned dutch cardiologist Dr. Pim Van Lommel will be of benefit to those who prefer the scientific approach to understanding consciousness. The article is a bit long and I advise that posters in this thread should read the whole article. Find the link to the article below:

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/vonlommel_consciousness.htm

Best wishes

joe4christ: I seriously don't understand what's happening to me recently, it seems my spirit is getting hyper-sensitive these days and a new perception about the purpose of life is being downloaded in me,
i'm beginning to perceive the earth as a place where i'm supposed to learn, and the more i learn the more my spirit develops, i cant explain it, but that's how i'm beginning to feel.
It's like the whole purpose of life is to learn by experience and love unconditionally.
I'm scared, i'm beginning to loose my devosion in religious activities.
I find more comfort studying NDE testimonies than studying THE WORD (BIBLE).

What's happening to me

My simple advice to you is to listen to the promptings of your inner being, the spirit which is the actual you, and do not forcefully disregard those promptings based on the advice of others (including myself). As long as you are genuinely seeking for the Truth, nothing, no matter how powerful will hurt you for its Gods will that men must come to the recognition of the Truth. There is nothing mightier than God and his will. Thus there is nothing to fear. He who genuinely seeks GOD is protected by the power of GOD even when he or she is unconscious of it in the earthly sense. NDE, OBE and even the sacred books of various religions are the experiences of others. Nobody can advance spiritually based on the experiences of others. At best, the experiences of others can awaken what already lies deep within you. God has endowed each of us with the talents or faculties to absorb and understand his will in creation. Use your God given faculties and you will find GOD. Then you will have millions of experiences which gives the irrevocable conviction that GOD is and that his will is supreme over all else. Books, psychic exercises, "spiritual training methods", fasting, routine prayers, etc will not lead anyone to GOD. It will only lead to the illusion that man is God. Only love for GOD and all his creations will lead one to the kingdom of GOD and grant one the special grace of being permitted to exist eternally under the luminous "wings" of GOD. Best Wishes.

@Anna7

I know of an indian who in my sensing is permitted or called to bring the Grail Messsage closer to india and indeed to areas where eastern religions are predominant. He has written extensively on his own perception of the Grail Message with respect to the spiritual evolution of india and its people. You may find his works to be of spiritual benefit. You can find links to his works in this web address: http://www.sphatik.net/india/. Stay blessed.

shinealight:

Hmmmmm! M_nwankwo, I think you must be from the Primordial Spiritual Plane or higher, which means you are not one of us 'developed human spirits' for whom the Bringer of the Message had to incarnate on earth in order to put the Message down in book form and the knowledge of which we are told cannot be exhausted in an earthlife. I cannot wait to pay my obeisance personally at an opportune time!
Regards.

Hi Shinealight. My assertion was not meant to convey the impression that I am this or that. My perception is that the origin of any creature is not of much importance. What counts is how a creature is in sync with the laws of GOD. Some higher spirits have failed in their mission while some developed human spirits have fulfilled their mission. This is not the first time I have said that I do not need books to consciously sense the will of GOD.I have repeatedly said so on this forum. That assertion has nothing to do with who I am. I do not need books because I am permitted to consciously draw from the living book of life and gain insight into past, present or future spiritual events. There are many across all religions who have been permitted this ability. It is nothing special. Stay blessed.

shinealight:

@ m_nwankwo

I think it is worth mentioning to you and other readers that there is a NEW EDITION 2011 of 'In The Light of Truth' - THE GRAIL MESSAGE by Abd-ru-shin which is obtainable through the following link:

http://shop.alexander-bernhardt.com/index.php?page=index&x77939=dbebd442d61e57b70e115ec80ba82c96

This latest edition seeks to reflect more accurately the actual words of the German Author as opposed to employing terminologies of other languages which may connote other meanings/interpretations that the Author never had in mind. In this latest edition, you would find that words like 'Millennium' and 'Animistic' have been jettisoned.
Best wishes

Hi Shinealight. Thank you for drawing my attention to edition 2011 of the Grail Message. As you may be aware, there are at least up to four different editions and each one claims to reflect the words of Abdrushin more accurately. I do not wish to find faults with any of them. Seekers who inwardly feel that they need to examine these various editions to understand the author better should do so. As for me, I do not need any book to sense what Abdrushin teaches in his Grail Messsage. Stay blessed.

shinealight:

Hello Again! Just for the records let me quickly note that the distinction between the two is not artificial at all. The Bringer of the Message uses 'precise' words to describe what he means to convey AT ALL TIMES!. In the lecture titled 'DAS REICH DER TAUSEND JAHRE' which translates to 'The Kingdom of a Thousand years', he also employs the phrase 'Friedensreich der Tausend Jahre' which translates to 'Kingdom or Reign of Peace of A Thousand Years'. However, the two phrases are not meant to convey precisely the same thing as can be deduced from the context of the passages below.

A1) ".....And then man forgot the principal thing! He did not take into account the condition that was also foretold, that before the thousand-year Reign of Peace everything has to become new in the Judgement! That is the essential foundation for the New Kingdom. It cannot be built up on the existing soil! Everything that is old has first to become new!"

A2) Disinheriting humanity of all the rights hitherto held in Subsequent Creation therefore makes possible and safeguards the establishment of the long-wished-for Kingdom of Peace!

The two passages above (A1 and A2) where Friedensreiches (Kingdom or Reign of Peace) has been used clearly confirms that both Judgement as well as Disinheriting humanity of their right as ruler in Subsequent Creation must preceed the establishment of the thousand-year Kingdom of Peace. This is correct and there is no dispute about this!

It is noteworthy that everywhere else in that lecture which we call 'Millennium', he uses the phrase 'Das Reich der Tausend Jahre' which translates as 'The Kingdom of A Thousand Years' to denote the entire period when the Will of the Almighty rules. The passage below illustrates this:

'...Now since the human spirits have proved their utter inability to recognise their task in this Creation, since they proved their unwillingness to fulfil it by repudiating and misinterpreting all the warnings given by called ones and prophets, even those by the Son of God Himself, sealing their enmity by the crucifixion, God now forcibly intervenes.
Hence the Kingdom of a Thousand Years!
Only by force can Subsequent Creation still be helped, as well as mankind, who have proved that they would never voluntarily be persuaded to take the right path which they must follow in Creation in order to live in it according to God’s Will, and also to work and bring blessing as the beings that they really are by virtue of their spiritual nature.

The above passage speaks of 'forcible intervention' and 'only by force can Subsequent creation be helped' during the so-called Millennium. This should serve to confirm that the whole period cannot be one of Peace & Joy for all of mankind. Within that period of Millennium, the judgement and purification will take place and only those who survive this will experience the Peace & Joy inherent in a Kingdom of Peace.

To use a simplistic earthly analogy, anybody who has lived under a military regime (Buhari/Idiagbon say) can testify to the high rate of casualty, both human and material, that is recorded during the early stages of such military take-over while the military begin to impose their will on the citizenry who have been used to a lifestyle that is lacking in discipline! The early stages of the reign of the Adamantine Will of the Almighty must of necessity also result in judgement for many who have embraced the Darkness for so long, resulting in the purificationn of the earth... but this judgement & purification are a consequence of the entrance of the Higher Will which takes place at the beginning of the period of the Millennium!. I submit that this period has already commenced!

I think it would be apt to conclude with the final words of the lecture referred to above:
Quote:
"...Such is the Kingdom of a Thousand Years and its purpose! In their self-conceit and the delusion of their own importance, mankind have imagined it to be quite different. But they will have to learn and experience it as it actually is! Unquote.
Best wishes

Hi again Shinealight. The citation you quoted is from the lecture "Millennium" (english translation).As the title stated, everything in the lecture is about the millennium. A lecture titled "The Kingdom of a Thousand Years" describes the conditions for the establishment of millennium. I am not of the view that a lecture on Millennium is at the same time talking about another "thousand year Reign of Peace". If it were so, that will be made clear in that lecture and other lectures in the Grail Message. My perception is that the separation of the millennium from a thousand year reign of peace is an artificial construction. There is no where in that lecture where the author made that distinction. If you find anywhere in the Grail Message where the author stated that "The Kingdom of a Thousand Years" is different from "The Kingdom of a Thousand Year Reign of Peace", please kindly let me know. Stay blessed.

Hi Shinealight. Thanks for your response. I reply as follows:

I believe that the disagreement that this topic generates arises because people generally have different understanding of the concept of 'Millennium'. Most people cannot conceive of a Millennium that does not carry 'Peace' with it as an adjunct. However, the two are not necessarily synonymous! What we in the english-speaking world call Millennium (commonly interpreted as Period of Peace & Joy) is actually conveyed by the Author of the Message in the German original simply as (DAS REICH DER TAUSEND JAHRE) which literally translates to 'Kingdom of A Thousand Years' or 'Reign of A Thousand Years'. No mention of Peace & Joy in the german original, nor is it necessarily implied. In other words, it is simply a period when the Will of the Almighty will reign supreme.
It should be clear that when the Will of the Almighty first begins to reign in an environment that is hitherto pervaded by darkness, the initial result will be purification and judgement for many who are not swinging aright in this Supreme Will. Afterwards, when the volition of majority of mankind will have changed for the better and more in consonance with the supreme and adamantine Will of the Almighty, then the Peace & Joy will become manifest and the Kingdom of Peace will have been ushered in.

My perception is that attempts meant to separate a "kingdom of a thousand years" from the "kingdom of peace" is simply artificial. In my sensing, it is not because of translation problems as you seem to suggest but because it is quite clear that the kingdom of peace does not exist at the moment. To solve this contradiction, it is then proposed that the two are separate. How is it possible to have a thousand year reign of the Almighty GOD and then still have a majority of those living in this thousand year period still serving the darkness? A very important aspect of the millennium is that the divine will reigns and the human will is disinherited. The emanations of the son of MAN concentrated by the emanations of the radiant star will make it impossible for any disturbing agent to be found in this thousand year reign of GOD on earth. Both in the Grail Message as well as my recollection of the events at that time, there is no where that the son of man says that the millennium has started. What has started is the purification, not the millennium.

Therefore it can be correctly stated that the period of the 'Kingdom of A Thousand Years' has commenced. Indeed, it begins with the binding of Lucifer and it also begins with the Cosmic Turning Point (for which the actual date is known). At the same time as the Kingdom of A Thousand Years, the Kingdom of Peace on earth was also proclaimed. However, due to the wrong development of the human spirits, both must today be seen as separate happenings.
While the Kingdom of A Thousand Years follows its cycle uninfluenced by human volition, on the other hand, the Kingdom of Peace that should come about within the timespan of the Kingdom of A Thousand Years, requires the spiritual volition of humanity through opening themselves to the Light to bring about a change, whereby the spirit of man takes a lead in the entirety of humanity's fate where the intellect plays only an executing role.

The cosmic turning point and the binding of Lucifer signals the beginning of the purification and the judgement. Only those who survived the purification will enter the millennium. In the divine plan, both the purification and the start of the millennium would have taken place during the second incarnation of the son of Man. But as I explained in my penultimate post, the millennium did not commence as originally planned due to the massive failure of called ones. The divine plan as it manifests in material creations can be delayed by the human will for the freewill of man remains free. You can see several examples of this happening in the spiritual history, from the mission of Lucifer to the mission of the son of man and the son of God. It is quite clear that a lot of prophecies concerning the millennium did not occur during the earthly life of the son of man. The reason(s) why the failed to materialize is simply because of the massive failure of called ones, whose special abilities are required for the millennium.

The Grail Kingdom on earth also equates to the Kingdom of Peace because, for the building up of a Grail Kingdom, a Kingdom of Peace is a pre-requisite. It is only when the Kingdom of Peace has been established that the 'replica' of the Grail Temple that is spoken about can be built on earth.

The Grail Kingdom on Earth equates to the millennium and is inseparable from the kingdom of peace. The son of man came to bring the millennium but it did not happen. The replica of the original temple was meant to be built during his sojourn on earth. Indeed, the architectural drawing was and is available during that time. The plan was shelved when it became clear that the divine plan for the establishment of the millennium during the second incarnation of the son of man will not happen. It has to be delayed due to the failure of many specially called ones. That delay was automatically communicated to animistic helpers, the star of Bethlehem and several other things connected with the millennium. If the son of man came to establish the millennium (as interpreted by you)and not the Grail Kingdom, then there will not have been plan to build a replica of the Grail Temple. The fact that this temple was planned to be built during his second incarnation but later shelved is an evidence that it is artificial (in my perception) to separate the thousand year reign of the will of GOD on earth from the Grail Kingdom on earth.

As regards the remarks in bold letters above, while I do not make any categorical statement on it since it is not officially declared , I suggest people do some research about the Comet Hale-Bopp which has been recorded as the most widely observed comet of the 20th century, and one of the brightest seen for many decades. It was visible to the Unclad eye for a record 18 months, twice as long as the previous record holder, the Great Comet of 1811. Comet Hale-Bopp has been dubbed the Great Comet of 1997 and it has been calculated that the previous visit by Hale-Bopp occured in July 2215BC when it may have presented a similar sight to people then (incidentally this period also coincided with another significant happening on earth). Readers should do their own research and come to their own conclusions on this.

Hale-Bopp is not the star of Bethlehem. It is is a physical comet that has its origin within our solar system. It does not have the powers of the great comet. Yes, it caused some excitement among some adherents of the Grail Message at that time. Again the idea of suggesting that Hale Bopp is the great comet is an attempt to "force" fulfillment of a prophecy which have not yet been fulfilled. If the comet have not appeared, physically visible to earth men and their instruments, then the millennium has not started. Best Wishes.

@all,

My perception is that the millennium has not started. The millennium cannot be established on the existing soil which is opposed to the will of GOD. To usher the millennium, the earth has to be purified and ONLY when this purification is complete shall the son of man establish the millennium. The kingdom of GOD on earth cannot be established on a soil which opposes the will of GOD. There is no doubt that evil still reigns on this earth and its surrounding non-physical environment. Only when the earth is purified of this evil will the millennium be ushered. The purification of the earth and its environs have started but it is not yet completed. A major mechanism for the establishment of the millennium is the physical appearance of the radiant star. Many (here and there) have seen this star but not with the physical eyes. This star have not even entered our solar system yet. When it appears it will be physically visible and earthly astronomers will be able to follow its trajectory once it enters our solar system. This star is connected with the son of man and will make its appearance when the millennium is imminent. For decades now the enveloped rays of this star have penetrated this earth bringing an acceleration of all reciprocal actions. When it physically becomes visible, the de-enveloped rays on earth and in the beyond will bring the judgement to its conclusion and herald the beginning of the millennium. Thus, the star will purify the earth and create the condition for commencement of the millennium. This commencement will be marked by the building of a physical "replica" of the original Grail Temple in the highest height. Only the man who willingly submits to the will of GOD can be able to participate in the millennium.

The son of man came to bring the Message of Truth and to anchor the millennium in his second earthly incarnation. He fulfilled his mission in bringing the Truth, but the great failure of many called ones including higher spirits delayed the establishment of the millennium for these failed called ones were given some special abilities connected with the establishment of the kingdom of GOD on earth. The son of man was originally meant to live up to over 100 years and usher in the kingdom of GOD on earth. But the great failure among called ones automatically necessitated changes in the material manifestation of the divine plan. A consequence of these changes is that the son of man have to depart the earth prematurely without establishing the kingdom of GOD on earth. It is for this reason that the radiant star did not physically appear during the short earthly life of the son of man, nor was an earthly replica of the Grail Temple built. The free will of man can to some extent delay the manifestation of divine will in material creations but is incapable of preventing the inevitable outcome. Thus the failure of humankind, especially the called ones did delay the establishment of the millennium on earth but it is the divine will that there shall be Light on earth. Thus, the millennium will be established by the son of man. A contingency plan have automatically set in motion following the failure of the called ones during the second earthly incarnation of the son of man. How and when will the son of man establish the millennium is still a mystery that is only know to very few but all genuine believers can sense its imminence by looking at the sky. The appearance of the radiant star (known as the great comet), physically visible and detectable by earthly astronomers will be the inevitable sign that the time has come. Best Wishes.

@ all. In the end, each of us will take what it is that resonates with his spirit. My position remains that an "intellectual atheist" is capable of absorbing the love of GOD. I will not class what I know to be genuine acts of love or the invisible connections to the power from GOD that I "see" in and around some of these intellectual atheists as something less than genuine love. For me, if cassava was planted in a field and there is a doubt of whether it is cassava or something else, all that people need to silence any doubt is to wait for the harvest. When the time of harvest comes, people will know that it is cassava. It is that simple. Best Wishes.

shinealight: @ M_Nwankwo

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond. Your position regarding atheists vis-a-vis additional Help from the Light is much clearer to me now. However, let me cite a passage to you from 'Ethereal Briars'. Here it goes:
Quote
"...With a thousandfold ramifications and branchings, yet ever following the urge of the fundamental Law, the radiations of the strengthening and thus also healing Light are woven into Subsequent Creation, waiting for the creature to use them! They are not in the human spirit, much less in the human body itself, but outside it. The human spirit must seek the connection and open itself for the receiving in the right way, which is best achieved by deep and earnest prayer.

As the help in the Light always lies ready for the human spirit if it wishes to open itself to it, many a person will find a little help through opening himself by some method which he has taught himself. Wherever such help has been given, there have been moments of such intuitive perception in a human spirit as truly correspond with the Laws of Creation, so that the link with the help could be established. The person needs not have been aware in the earthly sense of this intuitive perception, for it is a purely spiritual happening which very often goes unnoticed by the earthly intellect. The impulse of a moment is enough for this. And therewith the help from the Light was set in motion, because the Laws that exist for this purpose will never be overthrown! They are fulfilled even though a person is unconscious of it.
The occultist, however, perceives nothing of this; he firmly believes that he has really achieved it by his suggestion alone, or by auto-suggestion!
Here he deludes himself, for help will never come to him when an even stronger power is needed than that which lies ever ready within Creation.

For then a special Act of Will of the Light must first set in from above to strengthen the current of Power! And this can only come about as the consequence of a truly fervent prayer, of a request that arises from conviction of the Omnipotence and Love of God!" End of Quote.

Now, from the above, it seems to me that the atheist is in the same position as the occultist who is unable to access the 'stronger power than that which lies ever ready in Creation'. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think that any atheist (be s/he an intellectual or spiritual atheist according to your classification) engages in any 'truly fervent prayer' to a God s/he does not believe exists. So, how does he invoke that Special Act of Will of the Light that is needed to strengthen the current of power? So, whichever way one looks at it, ALL atheists cut themselves off from that 'addtional Help' by virtue of the inability to confess or admit the Omnipotence of the Creator, Whom they cannot call upon in humility and with conviction at their hour of need!

I look forward to any rejoinders.
Best wishes

Hi Shinealight. Thanks again for your well reasoned response. In the quote you sited already lies the answer on why I assert that an "intellectual atheist" can absorb of the love of GOD and dispense it to other creatures via genuine acts of love. It is stated therein that there are spiritually willed actions which goes unnoticed by the human brain. My point is that those who I referred to as "intellectual atheist" do believe in GOD. It is just that their spiritually willed conviction in GOD go unnoticed by the earthly intellect. Even though the earthly brain is still unconscious of the spirit conviction in GOD, the spiritually willed actions unconsciously permeates their physical and soul bodies resulting in selfless acts of love. I am certain that most people have come across individuals whose inner and outward life are an example of a true human being only to be shocked to learn later on that such a man is an atheist (intellectual atheist).

There are cases where an atheist (intellectual atheist) suddenly and spontaneously become aware in the earthly sense that GOD is. I have previously alluded that a knowledge that slumbers within the spirit can suddenly be awakened through an experience brought to bear by careful spiritual guidance. The sudden and spontaneous awareness that GOD is cannot happen if an atheist in a spiritual sense does not believe in GOD. The sudden and spontaneous awareness is a pointer that such an awareness of GOD already exists in the spirit and an awakening experience simply tears asunder the barriers that have previously blocked this spiritual awareness that GOD is from reaching the earthly brain in a conscious way. There are many things which the spirit is aware of or believes in that goes unnoticed by the earthly brain. For example, all souls carry within them the knowledge of their past earth-lives and yet only a minor few can recall with mathematical precision their past lives. Does it mean that the majority who cannot at the moment recall their past lives have not underwent reincarnations? Certainly not. It simply means that what is alive in their spirit go unnoticed by the earthly intellect and yet in the character traits of such individuals who are unconscious of their past lives lies imprints or markers of their former existence. In a similar way, one can find pointers that the spirit of "intellectual atheists" believe in GOD in genuine acts of selfless love. They are capable of this selfless love because their spirit is indeed in tune with the love of GOD, although their intellect is unaware of this connection. Stay blessed.

shinealight: @ M_Nwankwo

You wrote quite a bit in your last post that at the end I was not quite sure what your position really is. I am sure the fault is mine for misreading your post. However, I want to be quite clear so that I do not misrepresent you.
Now, I suppose you are conversant with the words "When the need is greatest, God's help is nearest to you". Let me cite a passage for you so as to be certain whether your position is different or in agreement.
Here it goes:
"...However, these words are not intended for all mankind as the promise that they are. They must not be taken one-sidedly, with the desire only to receive, as is mostly the case with men, but the words also impose a condition!
They speak of God, which assumes that they are meant for those human beings who believe in God and in His Help, His Power. An atheist would shut himself off from this help from the Light!
Just consider for once the lawfulness that takes effect in these events. It is not difficult to recognise it clearly.
He who truly believes in God and in His All-Holy Will, in the right form and way, will not malevolently and wantonly act contrary to the Laws of God. Thereby the way for God's help will always remain open to him!"

I look forward to your response.
Best wishes.

Hi Shinealight. Thanks for asking for clarification so as not to misrepresent what I said. I am aware of the quote you sited. My postion is in agreement with the quote you sited. Abdrushin knows the true state of the spirit and when he speaks of atheists, he refered to to those whose spirit did not believe in GOD or his existence. It refers to people who I already described in my submission as "spiritual atheist". It does not refer to people who I labelled as "intelectual atheists". As I submitted in my penultimate mail, there are atheists (I call them "intellectual atheist) and this group do not "malevolently and wantonly act contrarly to the laws of GOD". Indeed these group of "intellectual atheists" act in obedience to the laws of GOD. It is just that there brain is not yet counscious of what is already alife in their spirits. But the fruits of the seeds that these "intellectual athesists" sow is a pointer that their spirits recognise and know of GOD. Stay blessed.

@all. What a lot of people profess in their day consciousnesses is not in many instances the nature of the soul. Thus it is almost meaninglessness what label individuals give to themselves or believe themselves to be. If you want to know what a man is or is not, intuitively look at all his activities (words, actions, thoughts, imagination, intuition, etc). Creation can only be experienced and it is in experiencing the fruits of the seeds sown by us and our fellow travelers that we will come to the certainty of the state of the soul, perhaps our inner faculties may be opened permitting us to survey the evolution and the present state of the spirit. There are many who today profess to be atheists who are not and there are many who also profess to be theists who are actually atheists. An earthly professed atheists who shows or demonstrates spontaneously or as second nature genuine acts of love is intellectually an atheist but spiritually a theist. The physical body and its brain is quite dense and for some it takes quite some time for the brain to be conscious of this even though such impressions constantly albeit unconsciously permeates the physical body. Depending on each individual, this period when the brain is not yet conscious of that which vibrates in the spirit may take weeks, decades, or yet another incarnation. I am sure that some people have in there own sphere of life come across genuine acts of love by an atheist and these acts of love cannot be dismissed on the basis that the profess atheism.

An atheist who without regard to his own safety spontaneously jumps into water to save a drowning child is showing genuine act of love or an atheist who selflessly risks his or her life to protect a woman from being molested by decadent men is showing genuine act of love. Such a Love comes from GOD. The spirit of the so called atheist is aware of it, it is only the brain that is still unconscious and the conscious recognition will someday also penetrate the earthly brain. If one is spiritually an atheist, then it is impossible for genuine acts of love to manifest through and from them. Since in life, many have experienced genuine acts of love from some of these "intellectual" atheists, the correct interpretation is that their spirit have absorbed the Gods love and the spirit is aware of the love of GOD. To deny that some who profess atheism have not shown genuine love is in opposition to the experiences of millions of people who have witnessed or benefited from the selfless love of these "intellectual atheist" who in my perception are spiritually theists. The nature of a seed can be correctly inferred from the fruit that it produces. He or she who demonstrates genuine acts of love is in tune with the love of GOD, in tune with Jesus even when his day awareness is not yet conscious of this connection.

The recognition of envoys of GOD does not come about by reading a book or living in the same house with one who has come to such recognition. A man who lives according to the laws of GOD will on this path come to the recognition of all the revelations that he needs. A gifted primary school student who has talents for biology, physics and chemistry will one day in his progress get a PhD. The talent to be a top scholar is already in the child and as he progresses, Ph.D, top publications and scientific breakthrough will naturally fall to his lap. The same applies to a man who have started to walk on the road of the laws of GOD. As he continues his walk or experiencing on this road that is the laws of GOD,he will naturally come to the recognition of all that he needs including the identities of Jesus and Abdrushin. For some it may happen in this earth-life, for others in the intervening period after earthly death , in another earth-life and yet for some others, they have already come to such a recognition in a previous earth life but that knowledge still slumbers deep within the spirit. Some spiritually guided events may awakenen the slumbering knowledge. Best Wishes.

Deep Sight:

As such, the remarks in question should not be taken as any censure of associations, don't you think?



Does it not seem unlikely that the existence or non existence of such associations would affect the mission of a called one such as to warrant such a strong statement from him? It therefore seems that it was wholely the Nazis behind such a statement from him.

I do not sense it to be so. You have to combine the two main reasons. To have a loose association whose only goal is to spread the Grail Message is the way it should be and that can only happen as long as Abdrushin is there to provide the guidance. The massive failure of called ones made Abdrushin to realize that even with very high spiritual help, the human being is still unreliable. My perception is that as Abdrushin neared his earthly departure, it was very clear to him that without circumspect guidance provided by him, these loose associations will become a movement, sect or religion. Thus my own sensing is that he prohibited the movement in any form both because of the harassment by the Nazi as well as well as as the inability of human beings to carry on with such loose association without transforming it into yet another religion or sect. Stay blessed.