justcool:


This is really beautiful. The above words fell like water on my thirsty spirit. M_nwankwo thanks, and may the almighty reward you!

Hi Justcool. Thank you for your kind words and prayers. Stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

I do not know with what words to bless and thank you for this priceless post. I will be sharing it with my siblings.

It captures the spiritual truth perfectly.

Hi Deepsight. Thank you for your kind words. Stay blessed.

Enigma:

@m_nwankwo

Could you please clarify something for me? You said:

The clarification I seek is on how the person becomes conscious of the existence of God in the beyond. Taking aside the reference to "the beyond", I can see how some of the rest of the bit I've quoted can fit within Christian conceptions. ((Before expanding the point, here I note that my very first post on this thread should have had a qualification in respect of point 1 in that post))

What I mean is this: within Christianity it is also held that God's love draws people even while they are sinners; thus even an atheist is subject to the call of God, the call of the Spirit of God; that atheist may eventually expressly acknowledge God but here, apart possibly from the idea of purgatory, Christianity sees that acknowledgment as occuring on this earth (I will leave aside the idea of "another earthly life" and issues of reincarnation).

Hi Enigma. Thank you for your well thought comment. The love of God is available to all whether they are on earth or in non-physical planes (the beyond). Even in the dark regions that men call hell, the love of God can incline to souls in hell and save them. Thus there can be repentance even in hell. The only difference is that it is far easier for a soul to repent while on earth than for it to do so in the beyond. The reason is that on earth, souls of different maturity exist side by side, and thus dark souls or sinners can learn from pure and evolved souls. The opposite can also happen where purer souls are dragged down by darker souls if the lighter souls momentarily or permanently loose there spiritual alertness or become indolent. The case is however different in the beyond where souls of similar maturity exist together. Thus murderers stay together with fellow murderers, the same for gossipers, lies, etc,  but purer souls also stay together, completely protected from the emanations or activities of impure or dark soul. I hope you can easily surmise why it is more difficult to repent in the beyond than to repent on earth.

Now the love of God is just that it will not allow even a single soul to perish if such a soul yearns for deliverance from darkness. Now, a soul in the dark spheres of the beyond, the so called hell can after decades or even millions of earth years get disgusted with the nauseating experience and an inner  yearning to escape this terrible condition may arise in him. This yearning can develop into a powerful prayer that is able to attract the love of God. The love of God through chains of mediators (servants of God) can gradually lead the soul out of the dark spheres into a less dark sphere and finally into a lighter plane where such a soul continues the process of reformation. I am only describing the principles because if I reproduce a life picture of such happenings, it may be a bit confusing as each of such rescue is so different. Until the last moment, each soul no matter where he is in creation can find the love of God.

The love of God vibrates in all creations just like the rays of the sun illumines the earth. Just like the illumination of the sun exists whether or not we open our eyes, so is the love of God whether or not we are are conscious of it.  We were in existence before we were born on earth and we will be in existence when we drop our physical body. The love of God is here on earth as well as in the beyond. If the love of God is present both on earth and beyond, then repentance and redemption is possible both here on earth and in the beyond. Also remember that the word of God is also present both on earth and in the beyond. Although, it does not directly belong here, I just want to point out that some souls presently living on earth came to the recognition of God before there physical bodies were conceived. Stay blessed.

JeSoul:

^M_Nwankwo, oga sir, I hope you and the whole family are well beyond well .
  Very well articulated.

And as long as you weren't trying to convince us like DS that this is what bible (and Jesus) teaches.

Hi JeSoul. Thanks for you kind words. The family is fine. Hope you are doing great too.


No, I am not trying to convince you or anybody else that my view is what the bible teaches. What I posted was not derived from the bible. It is my sensing of what Jesus taught. As always, stay blessed.

God is love. One can also say that God is the source of love. All creatures of God irrespective of race, religion, sex, nationality etc can absorb of this love of God and dispense it accordingly. In the case of human beings, what absorbs this love from God is the human spirit. This love will permeate the spirit, its clocks including the outermost shell, the physical body. Thus he who absorbs the rays of love will manifest love including love for all creations of God. Now, the recognition of this love as coming from God depends on the various radiation connection between the spirit and the various shells surrounding the spirit, the last shell being the physical body and its coordinating center, the human brain. In many of us, this radiation connections are not straight, thus the shells enveloping the spirit are not conscious of the impressions that vibrates in the spirit. Thus a man may believe himself to be an atheist because that is what his brain tells him and yet his spirit is in the recognition of God. Irrespective of his brain telling him that God does not exist, the emanations of the spirit including love still permeates his mind and body resulting in expressions of genuine love. Thus although from a human standpoint, such a man is considered by himself and others to be atheist, spiritually the man is a theist.


In a similar vein the brain and the mind may be trained or indoctrinated or programmed to believe in God but their spirit has no recognition of God. In this case, this believer is actually an atheist even though he believes himself to be a theist. However because he, that is, the spirit has no connection with God, he cannot absorb the rays of love and manifest it. Thus, in spite of his intellectual believe in God, he still manifests the works of the flesh including hatred, anger, lust, gossip, avarice, fear, etc. The species of a seed determines the fruits that it will bear. Thus all genuine love and human beings who indulge in it believe in God even when they are unconscious of it while on earth.

Thus, all human beings who indulge in genuine love are of God and all those who indulge in hatred are not of God. By there works or fruits, you shall know those who stand in the will of God and those that oppose it or do not recognize it. This is an infallible yardstick to know who belongs to God and those who are not.

Therefore the love of God manifests in the love of all creations of God. On earth, it is possible for an atheist to love God without being spiritually conscious of it. However if such atheist continues in the manifestation of the love of God, either later in this earthly life or in the beyond on in another earthly life the emanations of the love of God that vibrates in his spirit will also permeate his earthly brain such that he also becomes conscious of the existence of God while in the physical body. What counts is how our spirit is close or far away from the will of God. Religion, nationality, sex, class and similar things that we think are very important while on earth are worthless once we drop this physical body.

In my view, there is no difference between the pope, the Christian, the mystic or an atheists when it concerns the will of God. Murder is murder whether perpetrated by a pope, a theist or an atheist. Genuine love is genuine love whether it came from an atheist, a pastor or an agnostic. Sometimes we think too much and thus think nothing. If we look around even on earth, we should find that the natural laws which are the manifestation of the will of God in nature does not give a hoot about all these artificial constructs. If a bud-hist sows yam in a fertile soil, he will reap yam. The same goes for an atheist and the theist. In an earthquake or epidemic or accident, both theists and atheists are saved and killed. A deeper look on why these things are the way they are may open our eyes to the working of God. Best wishes.

MyJoe:

Greetings, m_nwakwo.

Perhaps you need to expound on or explain this part.
It's not far-fetched to know there are honest and pure individuals who don't see or perceive much, that is, who see nothing or see far less than others who are not as selfless or pure.

@poster
Here's the thread referenced by m_nwankwo:
The Problem with Dreams, Visions and Clairvoyance

Hi MyJoe. Thanks for your comment. I used the sentence you bolded to make a distinction between what individuals actually experienced from what they fabricated consciously or unconsciously. Many of the stories that a lot of these visionaries band about were never experienced by them, rather they are deliberate lies or unconscious projection of what slumbers in their mind. It may also happen that the stories have grains of actual experience but were embellished so that it will have a profound effect on listeners or believers. Thus with such people, they will describe the most fascinating stories and contacts with "higher beings", and yet they did not have such experiences. They either lied, embellished or projecting what unconsciously slumbers in their mind. In reality, people who talk much of their spiritual experiences or testimonies of their supernatural encounters are either lying or projecting there hidden wishes. An average Joe with the common sense given to him by God can see gaps and holes in these stories. In addition, if questions that specifically test personal knowledge of such matters are asked, then the seer or visionary or believer have no clue. Just one example with uncounscious projection of ones mind may surface. A serious devotee believes that a master or masters of his religion appear to him in dreams and give him instructions on both earthly and spiritual matters. The devotee keeps a record of his supernatural encounters with the Masters.

Now this devotee believes that all these encounters are real and not a projection of his own mind especially since some of the things the Masters told him or her seem to come true. This devotee is so convinced of the reality of his experiences that he gave his dream book to independent investigators. Armed with the dream book, investigators got an audience with some of the people mentioned in the encounters. None of the masters is aware of any of the encounters mentioned in the book. Even when the "Master" was shown a photograph of the his devotee, he or she did not recognize him. 

By perception, I mean experiencing in its totality. It does not just mean what we see in dreams or visions. Indeed dreams and visions are very minor part of experiencing. Thus honest and pure people do perceive a lot but there perception may not be in the direction of visions and dreams. Perception of such honest and pure human being lies in their ability to sense with clinical precision what is the will of God and what is not. I may expand on this if need be. As always stay blessed.

@Poster,

I do not agree with the views of the catholic church on the status of Virgin Mary. However, my view of the testimony you posted is that it is a simplification of a process that is "complex". In a thread opened by MyJoe, we have discussed in detail dreams, clairvoyance, apparitions etc. You may consider looking up MyJoe thread on  Clairvoyance and similar stuff. What I have to say here is that each individual perceives or see things according to his own nature, that is, according to how his spirit is with respect to the laws of God. Where individuals are honest, what they see or perceive is directly proportional to the purity of their spirit. In almost all cases, what people see is there own creations or creations of like minded people or creations of the so called masters that brought there various religions into existence. It is for this reason that a native doctor will see local deities, catholics will see "VirginMary", penticostal christians will see "Jesus", Theosophists will see "ascended Masters of the White Brotherhood" mystics will see their "ascended Masters" and genuine atheists will see "nothing". It is in the same vain that the testimony you posted should be viewed upon. It is his or her own creation or the creation of penticostal christianity just like marian apparition is also the creation of the catholic church. These various creations are concentration of energies and have profound effects on their followers including appearing in their dreams, giving them prophecies, bringing about healing, e.t.c. All these various entities no matter how powerful are the creations of believers. However it is quite possible and easy to discern when a dream, vision, or a supernatural event is a manifestation of the power of God or the spiritual creations of creatures.  To discern the will of God does not require books or spiritual exercises, fasting, etc. To love God with our spirit and to love all the creations of God will open the path to genuine spirituality. Best Wishes.

thehomer:

My point and claim is that there is no spiritual field so the smaller the claimed spiritual effects the smaller the reason to believe this spiritual field.
I think it's the spiritualist claiming this spirit realm that needs to provide evidence for it because so far, it has been unnecessary in explaining what we do see.

I see your point  and you are entitled to that worldview. It is also correct to ask claimants to provide evidence. Just be prepared to examine and weigh the evidence when it comes to you. Best Wishes.

thehomer:

I think it does because with each claim that is found to be false, the greater the chances that the spiritualist is wrong in such beliefs. Otherwise, if it has effects on matter, and these effects are not detected, why continue with the beliefs that the effects were present?

People can decide to ignore the evidence and continue to believe things in contradiction to available evidence. It is their choice. This happens across all facets of human endeavor including science. I have been long enough in science to know that some scientist stick to their hypothesis even when their are overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The same also happens in the spiritual field. A discredited scientific work undermines the claims of the authors but does not undermine the whole of science. For every discredited scientific work, there are several others that have stood the taste of time. It is no different with spirituality. My view is that an honest seeker for the Truth should not foreclose the possibility of genuine spirituality. He should continue to search, weighing up the evidence that cross his path and hopefully he will find convincing evidence some day. If he cannot find convincing evidence for spirituality, then he should stick to his unbelief. Best Wishes.

thehomer:

These are the sort of points that make this spiritual realm less viable.

Hi thehomer. I do not think the points I raised make the spiritual realm less viable. The core of my post is that anyone seriously in search for the Truth should not dismiss or ignore evidence. Most spiritual people including myself believe that the spiritual have effect on matter. My point is that in those cases where we assert that the spirit induces a material effect, then it is within the confines of scientific method to investigate the material effect. It will be wrong and indeed detrimental to the Truth if spiritual people including myself shy away from opening our scientific claims to scientific inquiry. The existence of God and his power is a spiritual claim but that God or his servants heals the sick, made the sun to stand still and similar matters are scientific claims. Science cannot investigate the existence of God but science can investigate whether or not a terminally sick person got his health restored without medical treatment or that the sun stood still some thousands of years ago etc. Best Wishes.

The methods of science cannot be used to test the validity or otherwise of a purely spiritual phenomenon. For instance, you cannot find evidence for angels or spiritual cities using the telescope, microscope, cloning, etc. However, if the spiritual influences matter, that is, the physical world, then the presence or absence of such an influence can be investigated by science. Science will not be able to trace the source of this influence but it will be able to measure or detect the physical marker or markers for such spiritual influences. Thus, if spiritual people make purely spiritual claims, then science or scientific method cannot prove or disprove such a claim. However if spiritual people make a scientific claim, then scientific method can be used to test the validity or otherwise of such a claim. For instance, if a spiritual person says that a physical woman gave birth to a child in the absence of the fusion of male and female gamete and this miracle is via the power of God, then scientific method cannot investigate this power of God but can surely investigate whether or not the said child was born without the fusion of male and female gamete.

I am of the view that any genuine manifestation of God or his servants in the physical world do leave traces or evidence. Science or the scientific method can find such evidence but it will not be able to explain the power that left the evidence. If virgin birth is possible, scientific method will find the evidence, if a terminal cancer patient is healed by a spiritual healer, scientific method will find the evidence that the tumour and its markers have suddenly gone. However if a child is purported to be born of a virgin but DNA evidence show that he developed from male and female gamete, and if a terminal cancer patient is purported to be healed by the "power" of God but is still diagnosed of cancer, then these claims fly in the face of evidence.

All honest scientists and spiritual people are in the search for the Truth and an honest search for the truth involves acknowledgement of clear cut evidence whether they are empirical or "supernatural". As long as we recognise these evidences and do not ignore or dismiss them, we will in the end find the Truth. Best Wishes.

Deep Sight:

Thank you sir.

I have long wanted your input on this thread -

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-443101.0.html

I will be most obliged if you can read the thread (it is only 1 page) and make your comments thereon.

I know the issue discussed there is only of academic interest and does not go to the root of any concern on true salvation, however, I think its an interesting discourse even if only academic. Much obliged.

Thanks. I will read the thread and comment if I have anything to say. Stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

@ M_Nwankwo -

Doing some light research threw up this quote from you on March 4 2009-


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-241816.0.html#msg3543176

I am of the view that these words (especially the bolded in red) are wholly in tandem with my view in this matter, and contradict that which you have set out here, and also also contradict most of your argument in the other thread.

I am still very surprised indeed and taken aback by your view in this matter, which seems to me overly mechanical.

I also note the response by Mad Max to you in that thread -


Which is very well considered.

Hi DeepSight. My statement of 2009 which you sited is in accord with my perceptions on this thread. If after reading the entire quote and not just the bolded  part, you may find that that my statement of 2009 is in tandem with what I am saying on this thread. In  2009 thread, I said that the spiritual volition is the core and actions etc are external shells. In this thread, I said that spiritual volition is decisive while action is a shadow. There is no reason for you to be taken aback by my perception on this thread. I am just a human spirit offering my perception on what I sense to be the Truth and nothing more. Thus people should only accept my perception if it is in harmony with what they sense deep within their soul.

A further example may be helpful. A very rich man has a voilition to be flattered and admired by his fellow men. In this connection he donates millions of naira to fight infectious diseases and to help the less privilage so that he will be admired and praised by the people. The urge to help didnot spring out of genuine love for the handicapped or for the millions of people plagued with infectious diseases. Yet, his money have provided vaccines, drugs and health to thousands of beneficiaries. His motive is to be admired and praised by people and that is in disobedience to the laws of God. In this case, this intoxicating desire to be admired is the core that is decisive. But the drugs and vaccines that has helped many which can be likened to action are good and will also set up good reciprocal action for the man according to the laws of God. The good reciprocal actions will surely return to this rich man but his spiritual environment which is made  up of the intoxicating desire to be praised and admired will disintegrate the returning good. Thus the spirit of the man will not receive genuine blessings. In the end he will only receive praises and admiration from people.


In this example, the spiritual volition is the desire to be praised by people and it is decisive. The restoration to health to thousands of people due to the vaccines procured by his money is the shadow. Thus here we have a spiritual volition that is in-contradiction to the laws of God but an action that is in accordance to the laws of God. The laws of God see the entirety of this mans activities, that is, his motives and actions but most humans can only recognize the actions and then make incorrect judgment. As they say "all that glitters is not gold" and a gold that is covered in mud cannot glitter until the mud is removed. My point is that if you are looking for gold, you most remove the mud that covered the gold and to ignore it just because the mud is not the gold itself will make finding the gold impossible. The bottom line is that our words, actions and motives must be in-tune with the volition of the spirit. We are spirits and God has given us the ability to compel the cloaks of the spirits to act in sync with the volition of the spirit. As always, stay blessed.

Ujujoan:

Still we cannot completely rule out the fact that God can forgive a 'sin' if committed with the best intentions! He's the omnipotent after all. How do you know that the 'sin' wasn't his will, to maybe teach you the importance of staying strong and being decisive in the face of danger!

For example, for the whole world to be saved, Jesus Christ had to be murdered, a terrible death at that! Peter had to deny him, Judas had to sell him! These were all 'necessary' sins . . . committed for a greater good!

I'm sorry you disagree!  

Of course I disagree but I respect your views. Stay blessed.

Hi again DeepSight

Sir I really want to implore you to reflect again carefully on what you are saying here. In that regard, may I request that you start from the definition of what a lie means to you morally speaking, and then proceed to the significance it may bear in the spiritual.

Lie is saying something that is untrue with the intention to deceive or mislead.

What is in accordance with the laws of God is Love and the expression and propagation of love, and certainly not trifles such as the fib that one may have to tell to save a life. I am almost tempted to take the view that if you found yourself in a truly desperate situation where lives were at stake, perhaps you would change your perception of this matter. For only in the instant reality of that moment can one truly understand that what is told is not a lie in the moral sense: only a positive action is taken to deny an evil-minded party the oppurtunity to deliver his nefarious intentions.

My perception will not change. I have been on such incidence on four occasions in this present earth life. As you are aware, I avoid personal testimonies. All I can say is that I absolutely rely on the guidance and power of God. Whatever situation I will find myself, I will only look upwards to God in calm confidence and let his will be done.

I have to ask again what you understand by the word "justified." I believe that that which is justified is that which is motivated and propelled by genuine love and acts for the good and against the evil. A person who tells a falsehood inorder to prevent genocide for example, is eminently justified in that regard. I really don't know how anybody can reasonably suggest that that is not justified. It absolutely beats me.

For me, it simply means that you are swayed by the form, whereas you should look to the substance.

Justification as I defined in my penultimate post is that which is according to the laws of God. Even with good intentions, a human being can easily go astray if he is not open to guidance from ABOVE. I have not disputed that the spiritual volition from which the good intention emanated is the substance while the lying (action) is the shadow. Indeed I have even affirmed that in all my post in this thread. The finer point I am making is that the shadow is contrarily to the will of God, and cannot be ignored or dismissed just because the substance is the decisive factor. Continual repetition of the shadows will soon poison or cloack the substance that its luminosity is lost and its emanations trapped.

You perhaps have not factored the fact that Abd Ru Shin is said to carry within him an unsubstantiate core out of the divine. That is the highest and strongest light coming into the material realm. If such a personage could yet commit homicide, then I rest my case.

It is in that alone made clear that the black-and-white approach you are taking is an approach that would be alien to the finer discernment of the Light itself. Like I said, substance should rate above form in appreciating these things.

The laws of God is applicable to all and is applicable to God or his envoys too. The killing in self defence by Abd-ru-Shin during his preparation in an earlier incarnation was not willed by God. I will someday in future recall that event to you and we can go through the details. Stay blessed.

Ujujoan:

There goes the fight between morality and Christianity . . . . .  The age long argument between what is right/wrong and what is righteous/sinful!

The bible say 'thou shall not lie' . . .  but is it right to watch your loved one die when a lie would have save his/her life?

The bible says 'thou shall not kill' . . . but can a mother watch a criminal violation her daughter and possibly kill when she could have killed him?

The bible says 'thou shall not steal' . . .  what if you have to steal to save a life? 

And there goes the question . . .  what's the difference between what is 'righteous' and what is 'right'?

In the law court, a murderer can be acquitted on the grounds of self defense, insanity e.t.c. Murder could be seen as manslaughter if it wasn't intentional. Surely our God is not a God of Black and White  . . . he recognizes the gray areas too!

Of course the religious fanatics will say otherwise . . . .  but then again, what do we know     

Hi Ujujoan. Thanks for your comments. Your points are well made. I respect them but do not agree for the same reasons I have adduced for the student leader and the man that lied to protect his family. Above all, I alluded that when confronted with such a dilemma, one must turn his gaze to God and will receive the necessary guidance. The ways of God are indeed black and white. The grey areas do exist but God did not create the grey areas, rather the grey areas are the result of the activities of man.

Why is it not possible for a life to be saved without stealing? Why is it not possible for rape to be prevented without murder? The hypothetical cases in this thread makes the assumption that the subjects have only one choice, to lie,steal or murder in order to safe life or prevent rape. My view is that there are several options within the omniscience of God that will save life or prevent rape without lying or killing the criminal. I point to the observation that yes men can lie in some circumstance to save life but the lying is not the will of God but the genuine desire to save life is according to the will of God. Now the underlying extra point is that if God is to save life or prevent rape, God will not use lying, stealing or murder. Stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

Sir, I am sorry to say that this time I believe you have got it entirely wrong - and this perception of yours does not seem to me to be sufficiently reflective, or grounded.

Even homicide is justifiable in certain circumstances - notably in self-defence and in situations of war. The lecture "Warfare in Nature" should be instructive in this regard.

Again, as i stated to justcool, i state to you that even the Abd Ru Shin himself was forced into homicide in one of his lifetimes. What would you say about that - particularly when you consider that he was supposedly the highest representation of the Light?

Hi DeepSight. Happy New year. Thanks for your comment and I offer my perception as follows. My view is that there is no justification for lie in all circumstances. Justification in this case means what is in accordance to the laws of God. When one lies to protect his family, we are dealing with at least two different currents of fate. If the man did this out of genuine love for his family, then we have spiritual volition. The fact that the man lied physically represents an action. The genuine love is according to the laws of God but the action is in disobedience to the laws of God. A man who genuinely love his family has a less likelihood of lying. Thus the action of lying did not emanate from his spirit but from from his brain. The motive power behind the spiritual volition of love mitigates and in many cases disintegrates the the returning retribution due to physical lying. Is the physical lying justified, certainly not. Is the intention to protect his family justified, absolutely yes. What happens to the man as a result of these two opposite events is an interplay and the stronger spiritual volition will be the decisive factor. The goal of spiritual development is for the spirit to compel its bodies to act in sync with the volition of the spirit. If there is a discordance between what the spirit wills and what his body does, with time the horizon of the spirit get narrowed and blurred. It will become increasing difficult for the spirit to see clearly for his envelopes of perception have dimmed tremendously.

If you see the lying and the intention to protect the family as different events that will elicit different reciprocal actions and not the same event elliciting the same reciprocal action, then you may see what I am trying to say.

Killing even in self defence is not according to the laws of God, rather it is an understandable reaction to the abuse of free will by other human beings. On earth where darkness and light coexist, it is understandable but not according to the laws of God when we kill in self defence. If all men have followed the laws of God, then no man will have the urge to eliminate the life of another and self defence to protect ones life and that of others will be non-existent. Every genuine obedience to the will of God ennobles the spirit, the spirit inwardly feels light which manifest in inner joy. No normal human being who kills in self defence experience this inner joy, rather a sorrowful mist can be felt. As per your reference to Abd-ru-Shin, kindly examine the story again and particularly how Abd-ru-Shin felt after the incident.

As long as we are on earth where good and evil dwell side by side, it is possible that we can be harmed even when we are spiritually mature. However, being spiritually alert will eliminate most of the dangers. When we choose to experience on earth where arbitrary actions from fellow creatures have become the norm, we accepted prenatally that we can be exposed to the consequences of the abuse of free will by others. These things happens for reasons which I sense you know off. But the love and justice of God bring rcompensation to those who become victims of evil acts of their fellow men.

I do not think that warfare in nature belong to issues here. We are dealing with the spirit. A clarified spirit lives in the laws of God and warfare as with animals is out of the question. In the kingdom of God where mature and clarified spirits dwell, war is non-existent. As always stay blessed.

justcool:

^^^^^^^^^^

Very beautiful!!! I completely agree. By the way, m_nwankwo where have you been? Nigeria? We missed you and your wise inputs.


Wellcome back!!!!!!

Hi Justcool. Thanks for your kind words. I was on holiday in my house here in Norway. My baby (wife) decreed that I should not near the pc during the holiday and I obliged. I am sure you and the family are doing great. I wish you a new year filled with joyful activity, inspiration and productivity! Stay blessed.

Ndipe:

This is a question that I have pondered on and decided to ask all Nairalanders if stealing is ever justified and if so, in what circumstances.

Lets say that you are the student body president of a Nigerian university and a certain sum of money has been allocated to be paid to students for their annual bursary. After disbursing them, you realize that there are some left over money. Now, there are certain students from underprivileged background who are on the verge of being kicked out for lack of fees. There are some left over money that could easily pay off their fees, but your dilema is two fold: If you are return back the left over money to your governor, chances are he will easily pocket it, but if you choose to help out these indigent students financially to better their future, would that be considered stealing in the eyes of God?

I would like a response on this subject.

My view is that there is no justification for stealing in all circumstances. A wrong action remains wrong even with the best of motive or intention. At best, the good motive behind a wrong action will only prevent the consequences of stealing at the motive or intention level but will not prevent the consequences of stealing at the action or physical level. A human being is only responsible to God and his laws. Thus in the example you gave, he must return the left over money to the governor. If the governor embezzles the left over money, the governor will someday receive the necessary retribution from the laws of God for stealing public money. Even though, the student leader in your example has good intention, he does not understand the meaning of omniscience of God. Neither does he understand that the principle of the end justifying the means contradicts the love and justice of God. The omniscience of God is all encompassing that it will take care of the indigent students with respect to their school fees in other ways than the student leader can ever imagine. An example may suffice. Assuming that the student leader has deep within his spirit the urge to help out with the fees of the indigent students. Then, this longing is a prayer that finds its way to God. If in the omniscience of God, the student leader is chosen as a mediator of the help to indigent students, the same omniscience brings about circumstances and events which will result in the student leader genuinely having the money to take care of the school fees of some indigent student. In this instance he may be going home to his hostel in the night and a stranger had a burst tyre. Something within him compels him to help the stranger in fixing his car. After helping the stranger, the stranger gave him an evelope. He refused to take the envelope but was persuaded by the stranger to take the envelope. On reaching his hostel, he was shocked to see that it was a cheque that can effectively take care of some of the indigent student.

Alternatively, for some strange reasons, the governor was very impressed with his honesty in returning the money and invited him to the government house for personal chat. In the night before the day he is to meet the governor, he had a vivid dream in which a voice told him to raise the issue of the indigent students with the governor. On meeting the governor, he brought up the issue of indigent students who are about to be kicked out of the uni because they could not pay their fees. Again without question and even against the advice of his advisers, the governor decided to use his own personal money to take of the fees of these indigent students. There are several other scenarios which lies within the omniscience of God. These scenarios are not fairly tales as some skeptics may imagine, the happen every day. We human beings are so busy with the trifles of daily life that even very clear manifestation of the omniscience of God go unnoticed. The lesson of all this is that God in his omniscience have several options to bring about the fulfillment of his will for individuals, nations, the universe etc and God is not limited to our options no matter how good intentioned they may be. When confronted with a dilemma, we should ask for guidance from God before acting and not act before asking for the guidance of God or believe that our ways or options are at the same time the ways of God. No wonder we run into so much unhappiness and problems when we act without guidance from ABOVE.

Even though, this does not directly belong to your question. I will give one example to demonstrate that the laws of God rules the world and fulfillment will come about with or without the participation of creatures. A man has committed so much murder that his activities have set in motion reciprocal action that will result in the violent death of the man at a particular day. Now the day of fulfillment arrives but all the people around the man are so pure that this murderous current can not find an anchorage within them. Thus the man cannot be murdered because the murdering currents cannot find homogeneity in other people. On the fateful morning in which these murderous currents will have a physical manifestation, this man was very apprehensive and sensed an unseen danger to himself. He thus loaded his gun out of fear,  and the loaded gun exploded on him. Thus the murderer fell on his own sword without the participation of others. Best Wishes.

agi-tuedor:

    Sir, you laid emphasis on experiencing creation by means of the spiritual faculties. May I ask what you mean by spiritual faculties and does one develop them?
   It seems to me personally that neither books nor seminars can fully satisfy my urge for the truth; so I think the next frontier will be acquiring some spiritual faculties. What advice do you have for me?
Thanks.

Hi agi-tuedor,

Thanks for your question. Spiritual faculties refer to intuition. Intuition in this sense is used as an ability which is an integral part of the spirit. This ability was given to the spirit by God so that in his wanderings in creation, he can sense the will of God as well as receive the power to live according to the will of God. Therefore to experience in creation simply means for one to weigh and examine all processes or events with the spiritual faculty. Thus to experience in creation simply means that the spirit does the experiencing. A human being who experiences with the spirit will never go astray for the spirit came from the will of God and knows nothing else except the will of God. Human beings go astray when the various coverings of the spirit become dense that the vibrations of the spirit are hampered and in some cases obscured by this density. In this case, instead of drawing from the will of God, the human being draws from the varied volitions, forms and shapes that populates the visible and invincible world of matter.

Intuition manifests in the capacity to make correct judjement in all spiritual matters as well as in earthly matters if the spirit has mastered how to relay information to the brain without undue earthly interference. Intuition does not refer to abilities like clairvoyance, clairsentinence or clairaudience but refer to an "inner seeing" and this inner seeing can manifest with or without clairvoyance, clairsentinence  clairaudience or other similar abilities. Thus the hallmark of the faculty of intuition is an awareness of what is the will of God in all circumstances. This awareness comes without thought as well as without the mind and the brain.

As I said above, the intuitive faculty is already hardwired in the human spirit as a gift of God. All that one has to do is to burst asunder the dense layers that cover the spirit so that the emanations of the spirit can find homogeneity with the spiritual power of God that pulsates in creation.  Jesus, the son of God in his Divine Message and Abd-ru-Shin in his Grail Message have already given to man and other creatures the key to recognizing and living according to the will of God. Jesus said "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself". Abd-ru-Shin said "Keep the heart of your thoughts pure". Both the statements of Jesus and Abd-ru-Shin are the same thing if you reflect on it. These very simple statements are the key to bursting asunder the fetters that holds the spirit, allowing the spirit to recognize and live only according to the eternal laws of God.

Thus you do not need to acquire any spiritual ability, the ability already lies within you. Absolute love for God and his creations is the key. Therefore books, seminars, spiritual exercises, ascetism, fasting and similar stuff are not requirements for serving God and recognizing his will. He who practices genuine love has found his way to God and on his journey on this way, he will also gain all the necessary recognitions  including who is the son of man. Stay blessed.

agi-tuedor:

The grail message is a work written in the 1920s by a German, Oskar Bernhardt by name, he adopted the Arabian-Persian name of Abd Ru shin (Servant of the Light). One the highlights of his work id that he distinguished clearly the difference between the Son of God (Jesus) and the Son of Man (Holy spirit). He went further to explain that this Son of Man will incarnate on earth just as Jesus did. He wrote beautifully about what to expect about the time whem the Holy Spirit (according to him) wil incarnate.

Now the reason for this lecture is that, for some time now I believed completely the work of the Grail Message but not until I came across the 19th century works of Baha' Ullah proclaiming exactly the same theory but with the difference that he is the expected One. The person of Baha'Ullah has a striking similarity to Abd Ru Shin:

First, Baha'Ullah was a Persian and was persecuted much by the government. Second, he established the Bahai Faith religion, a releigion that is expected to unify the world. Baha'Ullah's works are very identical the grail message.

My point is, could it be that Abd ru shin was a commissioned disciple of Baha'Ullah? If not why the similarity.
I back it up I would  have uploaded a work (GEMS OF DIVINE MYSTERIES) written by Baha'Ullah in response to a seeker's question, but file is too large.clearly.
You can email me at mail2oke@gmail.com and I will send it to you. Or better still you can download from http://reference.bahai.org/download/gdm-en-pdf.zip
Note: This work was written in 1863, before Abd ru Shin was born.

Hi Agituedor,

My view is that Justcool has addressed the point you raised. The prophecy about the son of man is a living prophecy that vibrates in creation. Many specially called ones were permitted access to this information in different era and epoch. Thus the coming of the son of man can be found in various religious or spiritual traditions. However the rendition of this prophecy varies depending on the particular tradition and epoch but those whose inner faculties of perception are alive will perceive the Truth in spite of the veils which the followers of various traditions have woven around the truth.

Whatever is true in any spiritual tradition will be found in the Grail Message. In my perception the living Grail Message contain all the Truth and thus grains of Truth in other traditions will also be found in the Grail Message. But the Truth of the Grail Message cannot be found by reading the Grail Message a billion times or by been an earthly adherent of the Grail Message rather the Truth will be found if ones spiritual faculties are open. Then, such a spirit will be able to go beyond the words and forms with which Abd-ru-shin cloaked the Truth. Then such a seeker will perceive in real-time the Truth that Abd-ru.Shin brings in the Grail Message. This real time experiencing gives the seeker knowledge  and such a seeker becomes a knowing one. When one is permitted by the grace of God to know, these questions and similar ones will no more arise for such a knowing one can follow in spirit the teachings of all prophets of God, the Grail Message as well as the teachings of Jesus, the son of God. All teachings in their pure state were once willed by God, and adapted to spiritual maturity and culture of the particular people. These teachings in their pure form were to form a single flight of steps leading to the pedestal on which the Truth stands. The flight of steps are not the Truth but steps towards the Truth.

A spiritual experiencing of creation will make this clear to any seeker so that questions concerning similarities, and comparisons between the steps to the Truth and the Truth itself will cease. My advice to all seekers is to experience creation and not be a spectator in creation. In experiencing creation, they will find all the answers to all their questions. The grace of God accompanies all genuine seekers and they will recognize the Truth when their spirit is ready. Stay blessed.

My view is that moral relativism is not from God nor can it be attributed to God. Genuine morality is a manifestation of the will of God and since the will of God is adamantine and unchangeable, then genuine morality does not also change. However, the morality of an individual or a group or a nation can only be close to genuine morality if such an individual or nation lives in the sense of the will of God. In other words, good or evil is not relative but the perception of this good or evil varies since the perception is a stamp of how close or far an individual or a nation is from the will of God. Thus murder is murder whether it is committed a million years ago, today, or in a billion years from now. The same is through of all evil or good. What is acceptable to a people or culture or what is legal is not synonymous with what is the will of God or genuine morality. As a culture moves closer or far away from the will of God, so also do cultural or individual morality change but genuine morality remains unchangeable. If an individual or group have evolved to a stage where their inner spiritual maturity is in sync with the will of God, then the individual or cultural morality of such a people is transformed to genuine morality where only the will of God reigns.


God who is the source of all love and purity cannot use evil as an end in itself or a means to an end. Evil is alien and indeed incomprehensible to God. It is human beings and their evil disembodied helpers that commit evil and then attribute it to God. As it was millenia ago, so is it today. People carry out all sorts of evil and then claim that God told or directed them. Any action or event or process that is not imbued with selfless love, purity and justice is not from God and there is no exception in this. Human beings who live in the will of God has the same concept of morality a million years ago, today and in a billion years. Murder is murder whether or not is attributed to God or Satan. Slander is slander whether it is carried out in the name of God, in the name of a state or in the name of satan. Rape is rape whether it was carried out by the so called "savage tribes" 10000 years ago, in the name of war or by the man or woman of today or by a husband on his wife.

The foundation for genuine morality is love for God and for all the creations/creatures of God. An individual who recognizes this and follow the principle will not consciously harm his neighbor in his actions, words, thoughts or intuitions. As one lives in this way the power of the Holy Spirit will permeate his entire being such that he will not harm his neighbor consciously but will also not harm them unconsciously. Then, this blue tiny planet will become a reflection of the kingdom of God in heaven where only the will of God reigns.

Hi Pastor. Thanks for the issues you raised in your post. I offer my perception on them as follows.

This is a very deep post by M_Nwankwo and I would like to discuss some points in it.  Just a tip of the iceberg cos there is a lot more but let's proceed small by small.

Thank you for your kind words.

First I note that earlier Nwankwo refrained from giving a description of elementals in order to avoid giving people a preconception of them that might actually hinder their ability to see them.  What I note is that such preconceptions can take on a life of their own and then present themselves to the person as the real thing thus miring the person in a delusion.  I suspect that this is what Mark, in a previous thread, referred to as demons.  He had said that demons are the creation of our minds.  This was a couple of years ago in a thread about demons but he then had to bow out of the thread because all the participants in the thread (myself included) insisted that we were only interested in demons in the christian sense.  It was probably just a problem of terminology. 

Yes demons are the forms of our evil volitions. In the thread that you alluded to and others, I have already offered my perception on the origin of demons. Yes, demons have a life of there own and can completely influence their creators and others. Many people are demoniacally influenced without been conscious of it. The same is also true for those who are possessed by an alien spirit. Demonic influence and spirit possession are much more common than we are ready to admit. Many cases of psychiatric illness, multiple personality, even depression etc are not because of organic or physical problem but a case of either demonic influence or spirit possession. However I must emphasize that each case is peculiar and a generalization will be wrong. But the time has come when specialists especially in mental health,  psychiatrists, psychologist etc should consider the possibility that the problem with some of their patients has no biological origin, rather the origin lies beyond the physical.

1)  If demons are created by a persons mind and then gets an independent existence from which it can then afflict the person, I wonder, is it possible for that demon to afflict another person that has not entertained the concept from which the demon emerged?  Let me try to say this another way.  Imagine a guy creates a demon that causes him to be angry all the time.  That demon goes about it's work independently of the person that created it.  Is it possible for that demon to affect another person who has not succumbed to the thought pattern that created the demon in the first place? 
1a) Is it possible for demon to have physical effects, eg affect a rock lying on a table?

Yes, demons do not only afflict there creators or individuals that entertained concepts from which the demon emerged but others. Every normal human being has  a protective layer which prevents external influences from finding a path to the soul. This protective layer is a gift of God and as long as the individual do not open this protective covering himself, nothing can penetrate from outside. But there are many ways which an individual can breach his natural protection, permitting alien influences to find anchor within him. It is impossible for an alien influence, even the devil himself to breach this protecting cover and reach a normal human being except the individual of his own accord opened the protective cover. Fear, occult training, religious ecstasy, unhealthy diet, smoking etc can puncture this protecting cover allowing an alien volition to find a foothold. Fear, religious ecstasy and occult training in particular can easily paralyze this protecting cover and thus making such an individual a playground for alien influences. A simple soul with childlike faith in God cannot be demoniacally influenced nor possessed by a disembodied spirit.

Yes demons do have physical effects, they can turn tables, lift rocks  or in some cases lift the person under influence. Demons are still material and they can undergo densification that grants them the ability to influence physical matter. Demons can also be directed by evil people to influence animals and make such animals wreck havoc on there victims. Demons who have become the deities in different religions can also perform miracles, pronounce prophecies etc. But one thing is certain, no person can be demonically afflicted except he of his own accord opened himself to it.

2) I have come to believe that it is impossible for someone to have an experience and not immediately form a concept of what it is that happened.  If someone encountering an elemental forms an idea of what it is he has encountered, even just a mental picture of what it looks like, is that not dangerous in itself?  Can that mental picture not take on an independent existence and then present itself to the person at a future date as the elemental.  In other words it is very hard not to be deceived when one is dealing with elementals. 
Everyday we heard all sorts of concepts and ideas of what God is and what God does etc etc etc.  Needless to say I do not believe that any of these conceptions are God, but I've never come to the stage where I've actually thought that they were demonic agents.  At the worst I've thought they were harmless delusions.

Elementals have form and there is nothing wrong in perceiving them in their form for it is God that created them that way. A true elemental being directs those who are able to percieve him or her to God and not to himself. He or she is only a small chain in the enourmous wheel of divine will and sees himself or herself as such. If seeing ones start to see it differently, then the contact is lost. Now the seeing one or his followers now want to force a reconnection with an elemental being without changing the intutive perception which first lead to the disconnection with the elemental. Now this false intutive urge that was the reason for the disapperance of the genuine elemental being takes on form and appear to them mimicking the genuine elemental being. Hopefully, I will expand on it in future.

Yes, it is very easy to be deceived but no one will be decieved if they are pure in heart and have a childlike faith in God. These two simple things give the seeing one the connection with the power of God which renders approach by demons and evil spirits impossible and if an approach do take place, such a seeing one has the guidance of discernment. I will not go into this for now, but demons have characteristics stamp in terms of colors and sounds. Without a doubt, there are demons masquerading as Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Virgin Mary, Krishna, etc as well as counterfeits of several lords of the elements.

I don't see how people can come into contact with an elemental or a genius repeatedly and not eventually end up having a format, or ritual, for dealing with that entity.  I do not think that it is wrong but I can see how it can become an empty ritual where no real contact is made with the entity anymore.  This goes for any ritual that one might develop.
For instance a writer might discover that if he locks himself in his children's playroom and plays some light classical music as he drinks a cup of coffee then the inspiration will keep flowing.  Some performers need to do certain things in order to have a good performance, it could be something a ridiculous as wearing their 'good luck' socks.  This might work most of the time but one day they might wake up to find that the ritual doesn't work anymore.  The writer suffers from writer's block, the performer has stagefright.  Mozart couldn't write music without hearing the sound of billiard balls knocking against each other.  He wrote always on the billiard table as he rolled the balls against each other.  That technique never failed him. 
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that rituals and formats are effective although it is dangerous to rely too heavily on them.  Elementals or gods will have certain recognisable characteristics.  It is like when Samuel heard his name in the middle of the night and went to the priest, Eli,  to answer the call.  After the third time Eli must have recognised something in the pattern for him to tell Samuel that next time he should answer, "Speak lord, for thy servant heareth". 
Anyway, I'm just rambling, checking out different ideas.

There is no ritual or format than obedience to the will or intention of God. What we need is just to be open to the power of God and we will be directed on what to do and how to do it on each occasion. In otherwords, let the power of God flow and in the flow the power of God will guide our activities here and beyound. Rituals in my perception contradicts the flow and mobility of the power of God and in the best cases turns the pulsating power of God into lifeless rigid forms and in worst cases becomes a channel for evil alien influences.  There are of course acts which God himself ordained and these acts stands beyond and outside the concepts of rituals. These acts are living happening. Baptism for example if carried out as an act of God is a living spiritual happening. I got to stop here for now. Stay blessed.

thehomer:

@ m_nwankwo

How do you know all that?

Hi thehomer,

Thanks for your question. My knowledge about elemental beings is drawn from the Grail Message as well as from personal experiences. I was born with the ability to "see" these things. My spiritual contact with the teachings of the Grail Message clarified my natural ability to "see" and led me to deeper recognitions. But my sensing is that your next question will be "How do I know that I know these things". Unfortunately, I cannot give you an intellectually convincing evidence on this forum. But if your quest to examine whether elemental beings are real or myths is strong and sincere, you will cross my path or the path of several others who have contact with the elementals and you will be provided with the evidence that you seek. Stay blessed.

coldwater:

Thanks a lot, M_Nwankwo,

I will take time to digest your reply. Thanks again for being a spiritual blessing to me.   

Hi coldwater. Thanks for your kind words. However, I am not worthy of gratitude for I am only a little servant of God. All gratitude should be directed to God. Stay blessed.

Hi coldwater. Thanks for your questions. I offer my perception as follows.

M-Nwankwo >>>> I have not, so far, had any conscious experience with elemental beings. But my instint, based on what I have read in books, tells me they could be real,  I am glad you have experienced them - sharing your perceprtion will, hopefully, benefit me spiritually. I have the following concerns:

Elemental beings are very real. Unfortunately, many a human being have lost contact with these loyal servants of God such that their activities are today relegated to the realm of myths, sagas and legends. Yet every human being on earth have in past eras experienced the elemental beings and such experience slumbers within the spirit. Genuine love for all that exists including what men refer to as nature will reawaken the slumbering knowledge about elementals and their activities. A reconnection with the elementals is an indispensable step in the recognition  of the will of God.

1, As you know, there are planes ( e.g astral, ethereal, material) in creation. Which of the planes are elemental beings located and what are their purpose(s) in creation?.

Elemental beings are servants of God who do not activate a personal volition but stands in the will of God. They absorb the power of God and dispense it without activating a personal volition in doing so. Elemental beings are innumerable and they can be found in all planes of existence, even in the divine realm. Thus elemental beings inhabit the physical, astral, ethereal, animistic, spiritual, primordial spiritual and the divine worlds. Those that inhabit the physical which many can easily see lie in a transitory plane between the astral and the gross material world. The elemental beings irrespective of where they reside are dispensers of the radiations of God. They are servants of God who under the will of God shape forms or give shape or conformation to the the different and diverse radiations or power of God. They are thus builders in creation. There activities are so diverse and incomprehensible that it will not be possible to describe it in its entity. But to enable a picture arise within you, I will leave out the high elemental beings that resides in the divine, the primordial spiritual, the spiritual and deal with those whose activities are evident in material creations including the ethereal, the astral as well as a the physical. The physical universes with its billions of galaxies are the work of elemental beings. Also included in the work of elementals is what we call nature. The elemental beings formed and continue to form universes, galaxies, stars, planets, human and animal bodies. They are involved from gigantic cosmic events like the formation and dissolution of stars to "small" things like the seasons, magnetic currents, air currents as well as water cycles, rocks, formation of plant, human and animal bodies etc. Our sun for instance was formed and maintained by elemental beings. Literally, our sun is the physical body of an elemental being and the entire earth too is the physical body of an elemental being. In past era men do see the lord of the sun.  Elemental beings are also responsible for what men call inventions. In a workshop of models produced by elemental beings, every genuine discovery that has happened, is happening and will happen is already fashioned by a specie of elementals, that is,  they have completed the prototype of past, present and future inventions. What we call inventions is a drawing from this workshop of models that were fashioned by elemental beings in finer gross material realms. Unfortunately, those who are permitted to draw do not always have the necessary inner purity such that these prototypes or models are not transported to earthly reality exactly as the elementals made them with the attendant results that some inventions become a problem for humankind. Maybe some day, I will discuss in detail about this.


Maybe, another example may suffice. A specie of elemental beings are involved in the formation, maintainance and dissolution of all the bodies that the human spirit clocked himself with. Thus, they know to the minutest degree how a human physical body can be maintained so that man can physically leave up to 500 years and yet have the look of a 35 year old man. In the same vein, these elementals also have the knowledge to the healing properties of herbs, rocks, water, fire and air. Every gifted herbalist without exception have contact with the elementals. The elementals not only reveal the healing properties of herbs to the herbalist but they also reveal a personalized treatment tailored specifically to a particular patient. God, the creator of all the worlds have made unlimited provisions for the joy of his creatures and the help and guidance by the elementals is one such provision. Even the cure to so called incurable diseases can be revealed to us by the elementals. Unfortunately, we have lost connection with the elementals, and thus lost connection with the Almighty God, our creator.


Another species of elementals pick up the stirrings of our soul and give form to our volitions. Thus elemental beings in obedience to the will of God mould the forms that form the tapestry of our fate, either raising us towards the luminous gardens of the kingdom of God or catapulting us to the realms of darkness. Indeed hell came into existence when the elementals gave form to the evil volitions of men.  It is also in the same vain that the realm of witches, phantoms and demons came into existence.

Are elemental beings responsible for our ( human beings) creation, judgement and re-incarnation, ?

The elemental beings are nothing without God. They are creatures and servants of God. Thus, whatever is their activity, they are simply dispensing the will of God. Thus they are not directly responsible for creation, judgement or reincarnation but their activities are part of what is involved in the fulfillment of divine will. I can expand on this when it becomes necessary.

Are elemental beings same as intelligent designers, as explain by realian movement, http://www.rael.org/.? Could they also be responsible for UFOs?

I have not read any of the works of the realian movement but I do know spiritually who they are. As a rule I do not discuss the views or opinions of others and for that I will not discuss what I spiritually know about the realian movement. As per UFO, I have offered my perception in some write ups in the past. Just search for my former posts and you will find them. Stay blessed.

coldwater:

Great thread!!

M-Nwakwo >>>> Can I ask some questions about elemental beings?

Hi Coldwater,

Yes, you can ask any question on elemental beings and I will offer my perception. Stay blessed.

Hi Pastor,

My view is that all pure joint worship of God climaxes with the sharing of the meal. The meal is not a sacrifice for the atonement of sins, rather it is a spiritual act  where our creator renews us with his power. The power of God (not God Himself) flows into the bread and wine. Thus the meal is consecrated with the power of God and any creature who inwardly opens him or herself will directly receive the power of God by his participation in the meal. The power thus received will invigorate the spirit, giving it the necessary strength to sense and only live in accordance with the will or intention of God. The meal is thus one of the provisions which the omniscience of God makes available to his creatures, ensuring that every and each person who genuinely seek God will receive of his power. In all genuine temples of God from this physical plane up to the highest temple of God in the divine, this meal is an integral part of joint worship of God. It is an expression of the living covenant between the creator and his creatures. The creator pours out his power in the act of the meal, inwardly open creatures receive of this power and a spontaneous but jubilant gratitude for the inconceivable love of God emanates from our spirits and finds its way to God. In such moments, a human spirit albeit momentary senses what pure worship is as it is done in heaven.  Stay blessed.

There is no spiritual benefit in criticizing the religious convictions of others or mocking what others hold sacred. We can clearly state why we disagree with a religious view without mocking the religious view. Genuine spirituality is experiential and these experiences cannot be conveyed by argument, books or intellectual analysis. As long as people are honest with their convictions, then there is no point in persuading them one way or the other. We are free to offer our views to others but others are equally free to accept or reject them. In addition, it is also of no spiritual benefit when we feel hurt when others mock or denigrate what we hold sacred. We should always remember that each individual offers a perception that is conditioned by his or her experience. Thus if one is honest, then his views are an expression of what he or she is. Why will anybody want to change what a person is? The laws of God through guided events present to each of us what we need in our spiritual journey and such experiences is what transforms or changes people. If a man mocks Prophet Mohammed because he is a Christian, another mocks Jesus Christ because he is an ex-Christian, and yet another travel to our villages and burn down the shrines because he considers them idols, then all the three people in my view are doing exactly the same thing, that is, all of them are acting against the laws of God which gave each man the ability to choose what to believe or not. A man who is inwardly alive will never force his spiritual views on others either openly or surreptitiously.

nopuqeater:

I read the opinion or argument of M_Nwonko and I have to ask myself, rather ask him: are you saying the Almighty God is not the Creator of all things? Things like death, evil which manifest itself, only when man acts on that part of him that ignores goodness in him, via his ability to choose?

Yes, I am saying that the Almighty God is not the creator of everything. It is impossible for God to create things that are in opposition to his nature. Thus God did not and cannot create evil. However, creatures that bear free will can misapply the power of God and create evil.  Hell for instance is not the work of God but that of man. Man misapplied the power of God and that gave rise to what is refereed to as hell. All power comes from God Almighty but the application or misapplication of the power of God and subsequent good or evil that arises from such application or misapplication is the work of a creature that bears free will. Stay blessed.

Hi Deep Sight. Thank your for your last post. I reply as follows.

I drew these quotations from 2008

Quote from: huxley on July 08, 2008, 07:02 PM
Quote
Is perfection and imperfection only an illusion? By the way, what is perfection? Can a perfect being give rise to imperfection?

Quoate from: M_Nwankwo in response -
Quote
Hi again. I do not think perfection or imperfection is an illusion. By perfection I mean eternal unchangable. Only God is perfect. No, I do not believe that imperfection can come from God or from the laws of God. Thanks

Does Subsequent creation not issue forth on account of the laws of God?

How do you suppose this squares up with that which I noted above - namely that -

There is no contradiction between what I said to Huxley in 2008 and what I am saying now. Yes, subsequent creation was brought into existence by the laws of God but the laws of God did not create imperfections in subsequent creation. You seem not to see the essential difference between the laws of God and the application or use of the laws of God. The source of imperfection in subsequent creation is the misapplication of the laws of God by creatures that bear free will within themselves. The ability of free will in a human spirit is a part of the laws of God and rightly one can say that free will is created by the laws of God. But when free will is applied, that is, when one uses his free will, then the use of the free will is the responsibility of man, not God and the evil or good that arises from its application is the responsibility of the creature that bear free will.

When subsequent creation came into existence, the building blocks or radiations were present and these building blocks or radiations can only bring good or evil by union. In other words, it is the union of the precursor radiations in subsequent creation that results in good or evil. If in coming into union, these radiations are brought together according to their essential nature, then good will emerge but if these building blocks are pressed into union in such a way that contradicts there intrinsic nature, then evil results. And it is the decision from the human spirit and other creatures with free will that presses these countless unformed building block radiations into a form. The low energy content of these radiations in subsequent creation permits union in a variety of ways, a situation that is not possible with high energy radiations in realms higher than the subsequent creation. I may expand on this when an opportunity presents itself. But in the meantime, I am sure you will be able to sense that since subsequent creation is a realm for development of the spirit germs, it is natural that the building blocks can be brought into union in several ways.

God and the divine applies the laws of God in creation according to the will of God, that is radiations are mixed according to their intrinsic nature and thus only good and upward development results. But the human spirit misapplies the laws of God by bringing into being wrong unions, that is radiations are mixed in contradiction to there intrinsic nature and the outcome is evil, imperfections and retrogression. If an essence of God the Father enters creation, then there is a strengthing of forms such that the building blocks with wrong formed radiations liberate itself from such union with attendance disintegration of such unions. It is for this reason that the existence of evil is only temporal. As I mentioned in my penultimate mail, imperfection and evil were not in existence at the beginning and will also not be present in the end . If you divide the entrance of spirit germs into the earth plane into seven epochs comprising of about 600000 earth years, the first and second epochs were without sin and no trace of imperfection can be found in subsequent creation. Evil and imperfection happened with the fall man which occurred mid way in the third epoch. We are at the dawn of the fourth epoch which will signal the birth of the spiritual man or the birth of the man who lives solely according to the will of God. To ursher in this era in which the will of God will be done on earth as it is in heaven, many revolutionary changes will take place on earth. The fifth, sixth and seventh epochs will be paradisaical,   

Now a crude analogy may suffice. Imagine subsequent creation to be a book with blank pages, ink and pencil. The book, the Pencil and the Ink were created by the laws of God. The book, ink and pencil cannot singly or jointly inscribe anything on the blank pages of their own accord. Now, imagine that God gave the human spirit the ability to inscribe on the pages of the book using the book, the pencil and the Ink. Imagine that after some time, the pages of this book are no more blank but the human spirits have written on it. Some of the pages have beautiful stories while others have ugly stories. Now the laws of God created the ink, the pencil, the book with blank pages and the human spirit germ but did not create the inscribed pages or the stories in the inscribed pages. The stories in the book is the work of man, that is, the human spirits are responsible for both the beautiful and ugly stories, not God.

In your post I read that there was no evil in the beginning and there will be no evil in the end - but that there is evil in between. Do you not feel that this is still evil in existence which rather contradicts what you have set out in the quote above - namely that imperfection cannot come from the laws of God - because the stark reality which we observe in the world is that the laws of God do permit imperfection, and indeed it may be said that the operation of those laws actually render such imperfections necessary. Now I must note carefully that this is only the case if we work with the definition of perfection that presumes only that which we see as "good" to be perfect.

As I noted, here -

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-411142.0.html

Perfection in the world could be understood differently.

As I already stated above, imperfection cannot come from the laws of God but imperfection can come from the misuse or misapplication of the laws of God. In a similar vain perfection can result from applying the laws of God according to their nature, that is, using the laws of God according to the will of God. No, the laws of God do not render imperfection necessary. Rather the laws of God permits the ability of free will and the the perfection or imperfection arising from the use or misuse of free will is the sole responsibility of the creature that bears free will. God gave the spirit germ the talent of free will so that it can develop. There can be no spiritual development without the ability of free will. The imperfections that results from its misapplication is an aberration and not a necessity.

Perfection in absolute terms is an attribute that is in God. Thus, just like one can say that God is Truth, Light, Love, Life etc, one can also say God is Perfection. Outside of God, what you have is a relativity in perfection. The same relativity applies to time, space, motion etc. What is timelessness for one creature is time for another. I may expand on this later. In a similar vain, I hope I will find time to make a detailed contribution on your thread on warfare in nature. As always stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

@ Nwankwo, you wrote quite a bit. I am reading it and will shortly like to make a few comments thereto. However there are aspects that are addressed in my response to Justcool if you will have a look.

Hi Deep Sight. I have read your response to Justcool. When you are ready, post your concerns or comments and I will find time to address them specifically. Stay blessed.