₦airaland Forum

Uche2nna:
Thats a classic example right there and I am glad U brought that up.

However, this always reminds me of the case of the chicken and the egg which came first? The difference between the sickle cell gene mutation and what is known as the normal gene is in just one amino acid (glutamic acid replaced by valine). That to me is a[b] highly specific change and not compatible with the random nature of spontaneous mutations[/b]. Is there any evidence against these two alleles co-existing side by side instead of the prevalent notion that the sickle cell gene came as a result of mutation of the "normal gene"? How do we even know which one is the normal gene and which one arose as a result of mutation?

The resistance factor is a clue to which one came first but as you say there is no evidence that refutes or confirms the co-existence so what we have now we accept.

Uche2nna:
Again like I said, very easy to misconstrue the two,

Let me try and put it this way,

Mutations do not occur within selective pressure (mutation can and will always happen with or without selective pressure). U probably would be better off saying that selective pressure occurs within mutation and even that will depend on what U believe is the origin of allelic variations in nature.

I think I infered that earlier.

I think the point i was trying to make tht you responded to was on the differencies that would occur within an isolated pygmy population who miraculouslly were sbuplanted in the icelands compared to a pygmy population that remained in the interior of African in reference to Genotype and phenotype expressions 50, 000 years down the line.

If you feel my statement is incorrect please correct and explain.

Beaf:
We seem to be saying the same thing, but with different intepretations of mutation. There are hardly any (many would argue zero) beneficial mutations.

http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v8/n8/abs/nrg2146.html

okay! I 'll stop calling this changes MUTATIONS.

As long as you get the point I am making semantics is irrelevant.

Uche2nna:
It seems u are mixing up selective pressure and mutation. They are two very different processes and most times result in opposite effects.

99 percent of mutations in an organism are deleterious and most times the organism with those mutations fails to make it to the next generation.

Mutation occur within Selective pressure.

Natural selection for erythrocytes carrying the sickle cell gene mutation causing sickle cell anaemia in areas where malaria is prevalent is a bad mutation though if could be considered to be a good mutation because the condition it grants its carries for some resistance to malaria

Mutations are not necessarily bad depending on their outcome. The bad ones are bred out the good ones are propagated.

Beaf:
No. I think that variations only occur within allele frequencies. So the gene is already present as an allele, it doesn't get made into something brand new.
Small print: I don't believe there is enough evidence for Darwinian evolution.

True but:
"The frequencies of all the alleles of a given gene often are graphed together as an allele frequency distribution histogram, or allele frequency spectrum. Population genetics studies the different "forces" that might lead to changes in the distribution and frequencies of alleles -- in other words, to evolution. Besides selection, these forces include genetic drift, mutation and migration."[i][/i]

See also the U function in EQUATION in heading effects of mutation from source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allele_frequency#The_effect_of_mutation



but l'll let you guys stay on topic before people start accusing me of derailing the topic towards "nonsense topics"

Beaf:
^
Species do not change due to genetic mutation. In nature, mutants or anything slightly different are either killed or left to die. The species must propagate.
Mutation generally represents death in other ways as well, eg cancerous growths.

Species can change slowly over time by selection of specific sets of genes due to environmental circumstances.

Are you speaking of Genetic makeup?

http://www.genetichealth.com/G101_Changes_in_DNA.shtml

DNA mutates which is why we can link/determine why an east African carries a different mutation of a specific gene from a West african even though both are derived from the same parent. E.g the E halpgroup YChromosone Gene which is present in both groups are mutated Differently  as E3a for West Africans  and E3b or E3b1b1 for east Africans.

What a species deems as a "pronounced" Negative mutation will be left to die off. Its allthe same DNA change is DNA mutation. Mutation is generally used in a bad connotation.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=343571.msg4818317#msg4818317 date=1256754229]There is nothing in racial classification called TROPICAL ADAPTATION! Tropical adaptation is climatic and not genetic. Racial heredity through blood does not adapt to climate, unless there is a deliberate intrusion to force or influence its mutation. You take two pygymies, a male and a female, from Congo to Iceland and have them breed. Their offspring will still be Pygmies and if they remain there 100yrs and continue to breed without mixing blood with Eskimoes. . . then for 100yrs they will remain Pygmies on ice.[/quote]GENES REACT TO ENVIRONMENT. THEY MUTATE.

After 1,000 years their genes will mutate as a result of interaction with the enviroment and available dietry.
After 5,000 it will continue to mutate in response to climatic conditions and nutritional intake
After 10,0000 the gene make up of these groups depending on selective breeding patterns will not be the same
If the selective breeding patters continue to foster a phenotype that is parallel to the enviroment their physical characteristics will change.

20,000 years on the pygmies of iceland will not resemble the pygmies of 30,000 years ago.


Contempory africans do not carry the same gene make up as prehistoric Africans. otherwise there wouldn't different looking types of Africans(thisis excluding any outside influence in African gene pool). We would all look all the same.

Mutation is spontaneous.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=343571.msg4818317#msg4818317 date=1256754229]Within the gene are templates for physical frame and bone structure. It is passed from generation to generation and the templates do not deviate too far from its origin, unless it was modified through cross breeding. Look, there is opportunity here for ethicists interested in debating the morality of gene mutation and cross-breed engineering. Some people cross breed for cosmetic reasosn only and there are doctors out there today that promise they can manufacture babies to a customized parental request.

By and large, I hope we stay focused on the topic and not derail it into other nonsense.[/quote]Yeah yeah. you still haven't answered my previous question. Please point out the Negroid or caucasoid and if the differences are a result of cross breeding by non african derived genes

The topic says RACE and intelligence. All of it applies concerning the post and you were the one that responded to my post not vice versa.

if you can't keep up then say so.

^ technically all the people you posted pictures have less "black"/African ancestry than you and me but have black ancestry in them. If you look closer you will realize that the last 5 pics have one parent that is intermediary btw black and white and therefore are able to pass on more european genes to their offspring depending on who their spouses are.

Kappish.

Ps if you have done a DNA test. I would very much like for you to post the findings if you can.

mzansigirl:
@ tosh acer

I think u only saw what u wanted to see. So u havent been to the banks, and seen blacks as consultants? Gone to hospitals and seen many that are doctors, what about the many that are accountants, engineers, lawyers, marketing profesionals

Your motive in starting this thread is to gather like-minded nairalanders who are just itching for an opportunity to bash black south africa, so stop pretending to care; trust me black SA does not need your pity. like someone said, help nigeria first.

I was waiting for that response.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=343571.msg4818029#msg4818029 date=1256751209]Someone said we should start the discussion with definitions. I agree. I will state briefly my understanding of race and then share in-depth my belief in human intelligence and the political exploitation of the diversity in humans.

The term human being is applicable only to a distinct and unique specie of creation. This distinction is qualified by an endowment of knowledge. In other words, understanding is present in all creatures but knowledge is specific only to human specie. Humans are categorized into different filter baskets in which people having similarity of ordinary physical features such as skull scultpure and facial bone profile, as well as hair texture, skin and color pigmentation are grouped as a race entity. We have Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid.

There are also intra-racial and inter-racial circumstances that occur naturally to dilute distinctive features such as an albino, or a child cross bred between parents of black and white racial types. Evolution and social alignments across distant peoples and races is increasingly producing offsprings that make it imperatively necessary to dump conservative ideas and adopt new definitions and meanings to race classifications.
Now, let's talk about knowledge. What is knowledge? If you were asked rto define knowledge without looking in dictionary or wikipedia how would you express it?

To me, Knowledge is the net feedback servoed to an individual consciously interacting, actively or passively, with the dimensional environment. The first action/event, whatever its outcome good or bad, becomes a reinforcement or deterrent that shapes how future actions/events are approached. This is called learning! Through learning the individual is empowered to seek truth, advocate truth and sacrifice for truth. This is the power of knowledge. So, out of all creatures why is it only humans that posess knowledge?

Let's go into the scripture. At the beginning of creation, mankind consisted only of Adam. God in his mercy created his partner and helper, Eve; made her of the opposite gender. This was the beginning of duality, polarity, very symbolic when we talk later about diversity! The two at this stage of creation existed in an unconscious state and did not at the time have knowledge. . .they did not need it at that point. God commanded them to remain in that state of purity and bliss, void of knowledge, unless they ate of the forbidden fruit of a particular tree, then they would gain a power that would make it impossible for them to remain in Eden. They disobeyed God's instruction and ate the fruit (apple) from the tree of knowledge. What is the meaning of all these?

Symbolically, this was a transformation across the veil separating unconscious state from conscious state of mind. Your mind is the apple of your body, this is where wisdom resides. It has gates. . .each gate opens a new stage of awareness upon your spirit. In esoteric teachings, the acolyte is led up the path of enlightenement through ritual steps that primarily focus on these gates. In the rituals itself, caution must be taken to ensure that a gate is not opened before the student is ready for the discovery, otherwise irreversible damages may occur to the soul. The acolyte could then end up trapped. . .not in a conscious state and not in an unconscious state but wandering around in a timeless oblivion. Similarly in fraternity ranks, the mystic progresses to the next degree up by first proving their mastery of the interim status.

The universe is seating on a vault full of codes and secrets about the cosmos and life generally. Many gates lead into that vault. The code for unlocking the gate is a fundamental essence in our nature. Mankind is still eating the apple from that tree today and with newly acquired knowledge we are further pushed away from Eden. I can write volumes on the subject. . .but it would divert focus away from the current topic.

Let's go talk intelligence. Intelligence is the application of intellect. The use of intellect include the independent ability to query, question, explore, enquire, probe, reflect, ponder, wonder, examine, . . .the events and sorroundings which act as impulses and stimulate in us ordinray or complex responses from which lessons are learnt. Therefore intellect is dynamic. . .alone, the triggering stimulant is a factor on the expansiveness or limitation of intellect. A child in Ajegunle that has an inquisitive and probing mind will exhibit a higher intellect than a child in New York who is choreographed. It cannot be disputed that access to resources in New York will aid in removing barriers faster and with more accomodation for the choreographed child, whereas the Ajegunle child living in squalor has no such luxury and unless an external intervention acted to rescue him/her, the child will ultimately be defeated by circumstance imposed upon him.

What is the relation between race and intelligence?
I will take a pause here to allow responses and feedback. I will continue later from where I'm leaving off now.[/quote]The non use of the bolded characteristics you mention above is not because of mixing of people but because of how genetic studies have trumped te pseudo scientific terminoliges there were used to group humans from early century scientist who obviously studied peoples based on objective manner. If you think this is false then explain to me this

Are the two below pictures Negroid?
If not are they caucasoid?

if so are the caucasoid features as a result of an introduction of non African specific genes?

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=343571.msg4817838#msg4817838 date=1256749267]Well, photo journalists do sometimes make mistakes and mix things up with unintended consequences. Whoever took these pictures and labeled them made an error. I would expect you to discover that given you own knowledge of African and Africoid or Negroid profiles. These are African features you are looking at in the pictures.[/quote]I don't understand what you mean by the above bolded part.  What do you mean by whoever took the pics mad a "mistake'.

What mistake are talking about. Are you trying to say the above people are contemporary Africans.

please go an do research on people from this island and you will find out their genetic afinities are to South Asians the Tamal people of Sri lanka and male japanese genes.

Again they have no genetic affinities to Contemporary Africans but have African aka Tropical adapted features.

People in tropical regions have similar adaptations because of similar climatic conditions cause them to retain or conform aka what you call Negroid features should be described as Tropical adaptations in tropical regions of the world.

This is not a coincidence.

You can not necessarilly dtermine a persons race by their genes otherwise analysis of those boys genetics would group them under Asian races and their phenotypes under Africans races.

[quote author=tosh_acer link=topic=344208.msg4816815#msg4816815 date=1256741295]In South Africa- the black folks are still the servants and slaves to the white folks- go to shopping malls, you will find the black as attendants, shop keepers, security men, cleaners, sweepers, gardners, etc- go to offices, most office workers are white folks, in the white folks offices, you will find black folks as cleaners and what ever lowly paid job there is. I went to Pretoria, in the shopping mall, we were spening money, dringking cofee and eating where all you will see are the white people, and you can see the expression on the black peoples faces there, serving and wondering, where are these black folks from, eating and drinking and eating where white folk eat and drink, and on the white folks faces, all you can see are looks like what are these people doing amongst us here- who will help our black south african brothers? Apartheid is still real.[/quote]They need to help themselves and by you spending money there and showing them that black folk can spend money too. The lower income/working class will begin to question themselves and awaken from slumber.

It has begun already!!!!!!

Bennyboy11:
Only if

, Our minds can be freed from the constructs others intentionally place in our conciousness.

[quote author=becomrich, link=topic=342715.msg4816813#msg4816813 date=1256741263]Where did you get that nonsense. they did. look at google earth, this portion of lagos in red, mostly was white in lagos. it is about the size of mississauga the second largest city in ontario. after toronto.

It is larger then the size of city of baltimore maryland in the USA.
99% of the resident where white. when till todays had the largest number of white people living in nigeria.[/quote]I often wonder sometimes if you don't hve some mental issues. What is it with you and satellite images, Please read my comment again. It said it is not "uncommon" that europeans had intercourse with Africans during their occupation.

SSSSH!!!

[quote author=becomrich, link=topic=342715.msg4816701#msg4816701 date=1256740374]yoruba with mix blood are mostly from white britain or portuguese. so my grand father , may have had one of the following gene.[/quote]Go and take a DNA test.

[quote author=becomrich, link=topic=342715.msg4816646#msg4816646 date=1256739859]I did not say, my grandfather was arab, he was not arab, he had no arab blood, it may be white gene. some white people then living in nigeria had black wife. Even in the 70 's you found so many molato or mix blood nigerian, it is not common now . Only northerner have arab blood in them. President Yar adua and his wife has arab blood in him. fulani people have arab blood.

But there were many nigerian with mix blood from britian. And thier offspring would now look pure black. The next generation would not know they have white gene. may be the same with my story. I do not know. in my son case, i think it was a recessive gene.[/quote]It is not uncommon that europeans injected their gene pool into Nigerians. However the rate at which they did is insignificantly small and is not  the reason for light skin in Africans. Thats the point.

If you truly wnat to know it s very easy. Take a DNA analysis test. Very cheap to do nowadays. Tell themto analyze it and then come back and make the statment you did with conviction instead of speculating.

Fulani have a 7% chance of having Berber not Arab blood in their DNA make up.

7% means out of 100 fulani only 7  of them are likely to carry North African ancestry. It is too insignificant to call these people mixed. Understand!

Fulani are much closer to an Idoma person that they are to an Arab or a North African.

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=342715.msg4806867#msg4806867 date=1256607287]lets stop fooling ourselves in the name of looking for white ancestry. I also have friends who look white but are 100% black. If at all there's white or Arab ancestry in their genes, its too far back to be significant, imo.


reasonable options here:

a. the children have a black father

b. embryos were switched

c. sperm donor was black

d. babies were switched




Anyone who feels two white caucasian parents can produce an almost pure black Negro/San child, should post instances of similar events in the Uk and the US for analysis.[/quote]Th article says the Boers may have African ancestry. Khoi or San at very low percentages. If that is the case with these two parents then it is possible.

Paternal or maternal lineage may play a part in this so it is possible. However the DNA samples of all three involved need to be fully analysized.

[quote author=becomrich, link=topic=342715.msg4816495#msg4816495 date=1256738375]You are wrong, somalian , if what you are thinking about , he mix blood from arabs, so are fulani, fulanis have mix blood with the arab. even some ethiope have arab blood, sudan and others.

my son case , did not look like lightening of skin, I just do not want to post picture, i even issue at that time, it was skin problem. you need to his picture when he was young, if i post it, you would see why. i just dont want to. it was beyoud lightening of skin.[/quote]Fulanis do not have mixed arab blood. how many times will I have to explain this phenomena to ya'll for christ sake. Phenotype and Genotype are two different things.

@Become rich

Unless one of your parents or grandparents is a descendant of a near northern berber or someon in your families ancestry slept with a european( Which I highly doubt) I challenge you to give your son a  DNA test and you take one as well. If they find any traces ofArab or european ancestry come tell me what "Haplogroup" it is and I will explain if the first mutations occured within African or outside of it.

If that is too complicated for you then just fax me the result and I will analyze it myself. Otherwise stop making unfounded claims.


AFRICANS HAD THE GENES FIRST BEFORE EUROPEANS. IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND!!!

[quote author=becomrich, link=topic=342715.msg4816129#msg4816129 date=1256734810]It is possible because , I had a similar problem, I am dark skin, and when one of my son was born, he looked more white than black . We had alot of problem, even with immigration over here on this issue. 

I remember when i was young one of my grand father( my mother side) was normally call  oyibo(whiteman), because he look light skin.

Some nigerian are light skin, so I assume he most of been the same, but now, I think we have been wrong, it looks more like he most of had white blood in him. My reason was , when i had a son, I had problem with the authority over here, that they make me do a DNA to prove if he was my son. my son nearly look white. I even wrote them , he had skin problem. that what i assumed. I do not want to post his picture online. Even when i went to Nigeria, the embassy gave me serious problem, at that time, i assumed, my son had skin problem. I would have love to show my son pictures then and the DNA result. I look black.

Initially I assume , it was a skin problem, but after seen this pictures and reading about "Recessive gene". [b]It looks like my grand father must have had white gene in hi[/b]m. What they call "Recessive gene" . Look my son when he was born did not look anything black.   It only mean someone in my family may have had white gene. And i think it came from one of grandfather mother side, he may have had white gene.


I just do not want to post my son picture. It created serious problem for us over this issue. I assume they thought I stole someone else child.  For nigerian having a child that did not initially look black. it was a big problem. 

I would have love to show my son pictures then and the DNA result.I am not sure it is safe to do so online. 
I have alway believe I was 100% black, till now. I may be wrong, but that is what it looks like.[/quote]African people have the mutation that allows for lightening of skin or waiveness in hair texture. Your son or you do not need any White people blood in their vains to produce children who are near similar to this trait.

White people are latter mutations of Black people. It is not the other way round.

The embassy people are clueless of this fact and are only reading you by your appearance because of their ignorance.

Beaf:
I have a friend whose mother is a pure white European, his dad is 9ja. . . he is 100% black.

'
You sure about that. Genetically speaking that is?

9jaganja:
@morpheus24

That picture doesn't show if those boy are intelligent or not it only shows their physical appearance and trust me physical appearance has nothing to do with intelligence.  I can dress like a mad man for a reason, does that mean I'm not intelligent? Can you tell me what race these guys belong to? it's easier to judge the intelligence of these guys by their appearance but trust intelligence has nothing to do with physical appearance.

The picture wasn't meant to make that point it was meant to strengthen the arguement that genetics does not necessarily determine "race" as it is used by the people who coined that word and mentioned by Bennyboy. Race therefore is a "social construct" and cannot be linked to intelligence.

A combination of Genetics and Environment on the other hand is more of a key to deciphering levels of intellligence.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=343571.msg4812617#msg4812617 date=1256681306]Morpheous, what country in South Asia are these boys in your pix from?[/quote]I made it easy for ya'll the description of the picture says Andanmese islands located in South Asia off the shores of sri lanka.

Horus:
Mixed marriages should be ban. There is punishment for black people who try to "lighten" the Black Nation. Mother Nature has been reducing the sperm count of white men now for the last 100 years. See the statistics and realise that the rate of reduction has increased over the past few years, and will continue to increase until they can no longer procreate. That's why those who know are studying cloning. On the female side the fertility of white women is decreasing at a rapid rate. They have to use more and more drugs to conceive. This is true also for light-skinned Black men and women. Any Black person who, after being exposed to the facts, continues to try and "lighten" our people is against the Black Nation. Mother Nature has zero tolerance for stupidity. The consequence of such foolishness is extinction.

So says the boy who believes in extra terrestrial life.

I guess all those naturally born light skinned igbo's and Bushmen should be barred from marrying real "black" people huh?

SEFAGO:
I am sure they are probably aborigines or papua guineans/ dark south asians- and maybe not africans

The are south asians(not papau new guineas) and have no genetical ties to Africans yet share the same phenotypical adaptations i.e can pass for Africans in Africa

Therefore to make statments such as "you can tell someomes race by their genetics is false."


most people would not be able to tell that those boys are Strictly asian derived genes with no hint of recent African DNA

A North African Tuareg is closer in genetics to a Sub saharan African than these boys yet they do not share quite the same typical phenotypes as Nigerians

Bennyboy11:
It is easier to tell the race of a person from thier DNA than it is to tell if I'm annoyed based on my post on Nairaland. lol
I am far from annoyed.

As a fellow black man fully aware of what some idiots may want to use this propaganda for, I hope you are right but like I stated it's on going. It's early days so you can't conclude on anything yet. Read what you attached properly you will realise it's not really supporting your case its quite irrelevant really.

Bros i think you should listen to Beaf on this one cause he is on the right track and you are not. I don't think you understand the extent to which the human genome has been dissected and its inferance on intelligence among humans.

Please can you tell me what race these boys are based on the bolded part of your statement.

See my guy leslie dey enjoy im self for MAMA Awards. JOZI wan scatter Kenya

Bros Leslie I miss my flight to Kenya but I go see you and that ya foolish nephew when I enter Joburg next time

HEY MZANZI!!

I hail

Ex Inferis:
D9 is a darn good movie, one of the very few "real" alien movies. sure, nigerians were portrayed in a less than stellar way. so? all sorts of people do get portrayed in unsavory ways; it doesnt mean thats how they are. anyone seen cannibal holocaust?

besides, really the things some nigerians do when abroad is demeaning, demumanizing, degrading, and downright unacceptable. this is fact.

ok, so nigerians are portrayed as prostitutes; arent some nigerian ladies prostituting in most of europe and south africa?

so nigerians are portrayed as blackmarket operators; arent some nigerians engaged in shady business activities, even here on the mothership?

so nigerians are portrayed as cannibals; arent we deliberately perpetuating that image when the bulk of our home videos are rife with rituals and occultic tendencies involving severed limbs, blood and gore, juju, and enough witchcraft and wizardy to shame Hogwarts? and we think its clever artform!

is south africa any less showing us what they think of us, as a reflection of what some of us do?

Arabs are constatntly handed down the shorter end of the hollywood stick when the myth of the global jihadist/terrorist is given the silver screen expose. it doesnt mean all arabs are terrorists, but some definitely are. but if you accept hollywood urban legends as fact, then its easy to surmise all arabs are baby killers.

and not all germans were nazis either. and not all jews are shysters though most of them are schmucks.

for long we've been entertained at the expense of others, now its our turn.

people, its just a movie, for crying out loud. if you believe the south african government and people actually do mean thats all we are, then you might as well believe in the movie's aliens. at least they are a damn sight more real.

you schmucks.

I guess everyone is entitled to their stupid opinions!

hadexman:
I disagree with you, these girls are not from cape town, south africa and beside the pics looks professional, kind of models pics.

@Hadexman


you sure you don enter capetown well well.

I was dancing with one girl like that on long street a couple of months ago!!

rich man:
The worst place in south africa can be compared to the best place in Nigeria in terms of eviroment. but the isue that baffles me is that i went to south africa, about 90 per cent of Nigerians that migrate to south africa are living worser than they were in Nigeria. my aim of going there was to stay. but when intracted with people i met there i was disapointed. cos almost all of them told me you cant survive in south africa wihout dealing with drug or engage in arm robery, whereby risking 20 years inprisoment and you must go to home affairs four times a year to collect refugee paper to enable you walk on street, whereby you promise them not go back to your country. if you go to one area called hilbrow were there is a concetration of Nigerians you share tears cos many nigeians that cant rob or sell drugs are dying of hunger, sleeping in club wherbeby 4am in the morning the club will close and drive them away. and they stand in cold till morning. the worst is that you cannot deport yourself for you need to pay 1500 rand TC to enable them deport you while you dont have 10 rand to eat. o boy when i study all the situation there i use my return ticket enter naija b4 i turn street boy, o

What kind of stupidity is that. I challenge you richman to go spend a week in the cape flats compared to Hilbroe. If you come out without your eyes shinning red from smoking too much "tick"you will rephrase that statement concerning worst place vs best place

Can you imagine !!!

Chei this NTa channel wowo no be small o!

but I dey manage am.

any body know any other sites. Fifa.com is not working

ovo4u:
Chairman this site na only the pooe commentator i dey hear, no video, abeg i won watch this match oooh make una help me na

I dey use the website it dey show audio and video o!