₦airaland Forum

jl115:
-Who are the other many Afrikaners you have debated with? .... Also this statement is in stark contrast to this: "the ones I debate with tend to be more of British or of other European ancestry versus your Afrikaaner kind"

Reading and comprehension is necessary here. So "I have debated many Afrikaners" cannot be in contrast to the statement " the ones I debate with tend to be more of British or of other European ancestry versus your Afrikaaner kind". They compliment each other.

Case in point.

If hypothetically speaking I have debated 1000 Afrikaners and I have also debated 3000 SA of British ancestry, both assertions would qualify the two earlier statements previous made. further clarity was given on the greater number of debates had between the two groups because one tended to be more open minded than the other. Something you are obviously proving in here.

jl115:
- Yes we are comfortable in Africa because this is our home..... But still we could be more comfortable elsewhere and if we so wished could've immigrated in droves like our English speaking counterparts...... Yet we don't and statistically even less likely to immigrate than our fellow Black South Africans.

Of course you could be more comfortable in other "White" citadels around the world. That's the whole point isn't it. You are able to trans-morph yourself into other groups of people in established empire states around the world with ease. Meanwhile a british black person with several generations in Europe would never be taken seriously if he proclaimed jis "European-ness" now would he.

jl115:
- This premises of a homeland and expansion is not unique to the Afrikaner, it was practised by all tribes in Africa. A great example of this is the Zulu kingdom.....

That's the common narrative/excuse I get every time I speak of this. The Zulu invasions are not the same contextually. Zulu expansionism did not operate in the same way as that of the "Afrikaners". The success of the Zulu expansions was underpinned on the ability to ABSORB conquered clans, tribes and territory.

The Afrikaner or Boer to be more specific, on the other hand were expansionists in the classic European sense again guided by Calvanist religious ideals of a "special" peoples ordained by God to take territory and establish their [b]HEGEMONY[b] over the land and territory, reducing the "no believers" or "non baptized into serfs or slaves. This was not dissimilar to their Quaker counterparts established in the US.

jl115:
-OK it's a great read I get it!!! but that was not your assertion YOU said it contrasts most other South African historical narratives..... And I'm asking you how does it contrast it?? You have yet to give me an answer.

The answer to your question is right there in front of you but you are trying to bait me into specifics. I said it contrasts other historical narratives I have read in the way it was blunt and unapologetic which indicates that other accounts written by contemporary authors I have read tend to be more on the conservative or subtle side when describing say the Mfecane,the battle at blood river, The origins of the Broederbond, the nationalist party, Apartheid e.t.c. A book in contrast would be God's, spies and Lies by John Matison.

godlyguy:
It's still WHITE monoploly

lol

jl115:
Your opinion of what an African is, is just that... A opinion. I can just as easly argue that all people in this world are African by origin and that is in fact factually correct. Secondly your original assertion was that Afrikaners don't consider themselves African but rather as European..... You have yet to prove to me that the typical Afrikaners views himself like that...…

"Normally I would rebut but the initial point was to let you know that you are not the first Afrikaaner I have encountered or debated with and probably wont be the last."


"You are comfortable in Africa, You have no[b]solidarity[/b] with the continent. There's a difference. If you did you would have not been isolationist during all the independence revolutions in Africa. To be anti-black is to be Anti-African.

jl115:
Depends what White South Africans you were talking to, English speaking South African generally don't see themselves as Africans....On the other side of the spectrum Boer people proclaim they can not live anywhere else but Africa since they feel they do not fit in else where.

Yet their entire history has been anti-African and solely based on the homeland and the expansion of the "chosen" people, something inspired by their Calvanist dutch religion, which again emanates from Europe and European conquest.

jl115:
However your opinion on, that Afrikaners don't see themselves as African(thus you speak in behalf of us Afrikaners) but rather a European extension is Factually incorrect and I know this since I myself am an Afrikaner and know the political, religious, and personal view of the majority of Afrikaners.

I have spoken in fact have debated with many of them. I would point out that the ones I debate with tend to be more of British or of other European ancestry versus your Afrikaaner kind. The former are little bit more open minded in general.

jl115:
You claimed his version of history is in contrast to other South African historians.... Yet when I asked what in his book is in contrast to other historians you have yet to answer.

"It is an excellent read that contrasts most other South African historical narratives I have read.[b] It is quite blunt and unapologetic.[/b]compared to other versions I have read.

jl115:
3. What backing did the Boer people have from Europe?? What did Europe do when the British(they are European might I also add) invaded the Boer republics??

This is why you need to read.

jl115:
1. Get angry on nairaland my friend I come to nairaland for pleasure...... Secondly simply stating you know stuff on an anonymous forum means nothing to me, and judging by your responses it seems your knowledge is simply Google copy and past.

I will refer you to all my past posts if you need evidence as regards my knowledge base. They go way back.

jl115:
2. My friend I know exactly the reason why the SADF was in Angola not just from simple research but from personal experience since my father, uncles, grandfather's and some of my cousins were all deployed there at one stage during their military service. The reason I asked was to get your view....your reference on Afrikaner identity is so skewed that its impossible for me to assume that your reference on why South Africa was in Angola is correct as well. Hence I asked for your opinion before responding.

Good now we have established what you know we can debate this further.

The escapade in Angola was a front for regional influence by SA in the name of capitalism and in an effort to impede communism from infiltrating into the SA controlled "South West Africa"/ Namibia today, sold to the South African public as a fight against communism when in fact was a proxy war for Western powers aligned with the nationalist government which supposedly had a laisse affair approach with the rest of the continent.

jl115:
Irritated maybe.... Bruised certainly not, you are entitled to your opinion on whether you think Afrikaners are African or just European colonial extention BUT your assertion that Afrikaners claim not to be African but just Europeans living in Africa is incorrect, and it's very simple to prove since here I am as an Afrikaner telling you that, that is not how we view ourselves.

one persons assertion against a multitude of evidence.

jl115:
Its now called "the history of Southern Africa" not South Africa anymore.. ....anyway I know of the book but have not read it, and since it was written by a British historian from that era I'm a bit sceptical .... Anyway I'm open minded, what in Walkers book is in contrast with the history I might have been taught?

You are skeptical but open minded at the same time. Hmmm?

He is very blunt in his depictions, he doesn't sugar coat specifics regarding all sides that contributed to the history of South Africa including the so called Boers.

jl115:
Edit... So I did a bit of research on Walker and he has been applauded for his book on the Great Trek by South African historians..... So I suggest not using that as refrence since it might not fit your narrative.

Of course he would, wouldn't he. Its your history. I refer you to the above statement for a clearer understanding, read the book!

OyinbowithaTan:
Your words not mine. Saudi Energy sector is more private than "State" owned considering the Royal Family controls it lol.

So these institutions in the hands of "white monopoly capital" is far better than it being in the hands of a "few cronies" Who will do the same thing that "white monopoly capital does" enrich a "segment" of the population.

I get you now. Men am I shallow!

??

OyinbowithaTan:
It is the House of Saud, the Royal Family, about 15,000 people. You are not aware that American energy companies discovered their oil and built the rigs and tech to drill and process? Standard Oil, later on known as Exxcon, was the original oil company. The company name was changed from California-Arabian Standard Oil Co. to Arabian American Oil Co. later on. Then over the years the government, Royal Family, eventually bought out the American companies. This originally occurred in the 1930's. American companies did the same in Iraq, and Venezuela in the 1940's. None of those countries and the engineering capabilities to do it.

So the point is that since the tech was from America, the Saudi's should allow the privatization since it would more efficient. As if the pursuit of a never ending profit maximization does not inherently breed corruption.

NIGGA PLEASE!

jln115:
The nature of Africa is violent, Africans have been killing each other and taking land through conquest for thousands of years.... This peaceful nature of an African you are talking about in your post does not exist, the Boer people took some land through conquest(and some they bought) and had to defend it just like any other African tribe.
The reason nobody chased the Afrikaner wasn't due to this false nature you were talking about but due to the fact that there was no tribe physically capable to do so.

1. I never said anything about Africa being peaceful. Your assumption.

2. As far as conquest well that's the story they tell you when you go to your Dutch reformist Churches on Sundays. Which people on earth do you know that would willing admit their atrocities to their offspring?

3. The reason nobody chased the Afrikaner away was because they were an extension of a "European"/Western power that dominated the region not because they were "Afrikaner". The fight was not a fair one.

jln115:
I don't know what Reading you're talking about since I'm 100% certain that I'm more verse in the history of the Afrikaner and better placed in speaking for the majority of Afrikaners since I'm actually one and not a Nigerian that thinks he has spoken to a couple of whites and know has this whole understanding of how they think.

Now you personal opinion if you view Afrikaners as African is just that, an opinion and you have that right to express it.

1.Don't be mad now my friend, my knowledge of South and Southern African in general goes way past just debates or interviews.

2. In suggesting that you read more, the idea is to get you to a better grasp of African history in particular. When I mentioned Angola, you should have understood the reference immediately but you didn't.

jln115:
However your opinion on, that Afrikaners don't see themselves as African(thus you speak in behalf of us Afrikaners) but rather a European extension is Factually incorrect and I know this since I myself am an Afrikaner and know the political, religious, and personal view of the majority of Afrikaners.

I can see you are bruised at this assertion. The conclusion is based on fact and not feelings. Afrikaners/Boers and by extension all White South Africans are an extension of European identity and European conquest. They have and will always be that. They lack an African-consciousness or Pan African consciousness that is inherent in Africa. You can continue to assert your African-ness that's your prerogative. The evidence however is profound and contrary and I have enumerated some points for all to see.


PS I would suggest to all a very good book on South African history. It is an excellent read that contrasts most other South African historical narratives I have read. It is quite blunt and unapologetic. "The history of South Africa" by Eric Walker.

godlyguy:
What if he wins?

Mathematically, he can't

jln115:
Hopefully this statement from an Afrikaner Boer(Me) would put things beyond all doubt :

Africa is my home, I will defend my home with my bible in the left hand and my rifle in the right from any intruder be it White, Black, Asian ect ect I can not see myself living anywhere but in Africa, and even though I have the financial means to live anywhere in the world I'd rather die fighting for my home than packing my bags and fleeing to Europe. I will live in Africa and I will die in Africa, this is were I was born this is were my father and his father and his father and his was born and this is were I belong.... What I've said above is the exact same feeling 99% of my fellow Afrikaners/Boere have.

No skewed rhetoric of any Nigerian or any other person for that matter can change that.

Good for the 'Afrikaaner", no one was planning to chase you away, Its not in the nature of "the African"

Normally I would rebut but the initial point was to let you know that you are not the first Afrikaaner I have encountered or debated with and probably wont be the last. Your responses reveal you are on the younger side and have much reading to do.

My points stand firm as fact with my personal opinion for all to see on Nairaland, If you say you are African, then that's your perogative to make that assertion. I on the other hand have the right to express mine.

Rossikk:
^^^Could it be that everyone else knows who we are, except we ourselves?

Intriguingly enough, THAT was also prophesied.

Jeremiah 17:4

''And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.''


OTHER POINTERS:


Jeremiah 24:9

''And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the Earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.''


Deut 28:37

''And you shall become an astonishment and a byword among all nations where the Lord shall lead you.''

Come on now folks...If this is not talking about worldwide anti-black racism, what is?

You are quoting word for word what Black Hebrew Israelites say so I know where you are headed. Not interested. I am tired of them especially when they yell out "READ!" on the streets of Brooklyn.

JaceBlaze:
Annnd your point is...

If it flew over your head then you need to head back to University or better yet Secondary school.

Rossikk:
Not really. We have no evidence of Atlantis' geographical location, placing it in the realm of legend.



By ''no one will buy you'', is meant ''no one will redeem you''.

The slaves in the New World could not, as was the practise in Africa and Israel, be 'redeemed' by paying for, or working towards their own freedom. Their slavery was a life sentence.



The trans-atlantic slave trade.



The Israelites likely knew very little, if anything, about the Americas. Mentioning 'Egypt' would instantly lead them to know what Yahweh was talking about based on their experience in Egypt. A great country in which they were once enslaved. So Yahweh told them he would send them to Egypt again, this time, in ships.

Intriguingly, the USA has numerous occultic references and connections to ancient Egypt, as shown by the pyramid symbols on the dollar bills, and the Eye of Horus imagery permeating their wider symbolism.



Who are these ''completely different people'' you refer to?

Can you point out their modern descendants?

Care to explain the ''Beyond the rivers of Ethiopia'' verse?

You simply cannot ignore these texts and shout ''Afrocentrist take'', ''nonsensical'', etc etc. Address the actual verses and what you think they mean.

Finally, bear in mind that the original depiction of the Israelites in Europe was of a negroid people. Only in the 18th century did they start to be whitened.


.................https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/b0/02/d9b0023b430ee30c522a28cfd0837a63.jpg
Black Madonna, Czestochowa, Poland by Orchard Lake


Black Madonnas in Various Countries:
https://udayton.edu/imri/mary/b/black-madonnas-in-various-countries.php

Very well then African Americans are Hebrew Israelites. Are all Africans also Hebrew as well?


Since we have now established this what next?

Yahweh is about to take them or us to heaven to live in glory or he is about to come down and smite the wicked enemy and restore the glory of the Melanated man?

Jkay187:
Although I agree with Malema on certain issues like economic redress and inequality, he's nothing more then a charlaton with regards to he's personal wealth and lifestyle. He lives in Sandton mansion owned by Mazotti who is a known tax dodger who is currently under investigation, and let's not forget the VBS Bank scandal he's party benefited from . He's policies of nationalization of all Banks and land would bankrupt the country.

He and the EFF is a necessary evil at this point to keep the ANC in check but not as a ruling party or President of SA hell no.

I didn't predict that he would win, I said he would garner more votes. Nationalization is not necessarily a bad thing if it is done correctly. The Saudis nationalized their oil industry, it was for the best, if not the Chevrons and EXXONs of the world would have ruined their country both economically and politically, so it depends.

jln115:
1. Not just Boers have been under European influence in Africa but practically the entire continent, Politically, religion, economically all of Africa have maintained this influence, to conclude that Boers are not African due to this influence than neither are you as a Nigerian thanks to that same rhetoric.

Stop playing semantics. You are well aware that the Boer are an extension of European influence and not a by product of it.

jln115:
2. Most of Africa have adopted a Eurocentric way of life, again thanks to European influence through colonization.....If you look at the Boer way of life before the 1900s it was more primitive more nomadic compared to that of their European counterparts in fact it was only Eurocentric in terms of religion and not much else. Secondly Afrikaans has developed into a language of it's own so much so that it has lost most of it's Mutual intelligibility with Dutch especially Verbally.

Lets clarify something before we continue this argument. The Boer are an extension of Afrikaaner culture which is an extension of Dutch European culture. When you say their lives were primitive pre the 1900's that is not all true. Afrikaners were well established in the cape for almost 200 years and traded, kept close ties both economically, religiously, militarily and politically with their Dutch homeland.

In terms of language well High dutch was spoken in the cape for many centuries until the colloquial Kitchen Dutch version spoken by illiterates farmers, immigrant groups and cape coloreds became standard grammar to be taught. Its like saying Jamaican Patio became the formal language used in the country today or Nigerian Pidgin becoming standard grammar.

Dutch people understand Afrikaans to an extent but not so much vice versa because the new language has changed many high Dutch words. Afrikaaners have been solated from the new formations of the dutch language over the centuries so much so that it has become difficult to understand.

There were small pockets of farmers that explored the inner lands. In come the British and a greater number of Boer/Farmers migrate into the hinterlands. As they travel they loose ties to the very well established political, social and economic structures of the Cape. This is were you get your idea of primitiveness. Afrikaaners in the colonies remained quite versed in European culture. The Boers carried with them much of this culture and did not appropriate any religious or cultural practices of any peoples they met on the way. They were strongly aligned with the cape, the British and other allies such as the Portuguese, germans and the dutch. Again they are an extension of European culture and not a consequence of it.

jln115:
3."Traditional genealogical estimates suggested in the range of 5-7.5% non-European ancestry in Afrikaners, and one study of 185 individuals showed 18% non-European mtDNA." So yes obviously Afrikaners ancestry is still majorly European but one just has to look at the physical characteristics as well of Afrikaners to see how much they've changed vs their European counterparts, Afrikaners are physically larger, Darker and better adapted for warmer climates than your average European.

5-7.5% is negligeable and would be consistent with the isolationist point I made earlier. A people who have been in area for more than 500 years do not even have a 10% genetic connection to the people surrounding them.

18% MTDNA and not 18% Autsomal DNA. What this simple means is that out of 10 South African females only 1.8 percent of them can trace their maternal lineage to an African, most likely a Khoisan. This is within reasonable range but still a small percentage. Nothing is 100%.

As I said Most Afrikaners. Boers are 100% European

Afrikaners are physically bigger because they bred that way not as a result of an introduction of African genetics. The surrounding Africans i.e the Bantu and Khoisan are quite smaller is size compared to them in general so where di the size come from. Dutch people on the other hand on average are some the tallest Euorpeans around. I would postulate that they inherited it from that side of the family.

Some Afrikaaners/Boers darker of have increased melanin on their skin because of their greater exposure the sun. period!

jln115:
Out of the 4.3 million South Africans that have immigrated to other countries outside of South Africa.....ONLY 50 000 of them where Afrikaners(the Number of Afrikaners immigrating is less than that of any ethnic group in SA). There are currently only about 5000 Afrikaners living in Australia out of a total population of 104 128 South Africans living in Australia....That's less than 5%!!!

I will concede this point and say White South Africans in general have migrated out of South Africa. The Boer/Afrikaner included.

jln115:
1. So what is the norm?? Personally as an ethnically Boer person I see my self as African before I see my self as European and so do most Boer people....Hence why there are vast amount of Boer people immigrating to other African countries like Botswana, Namibia and Zambia rather than to Europe or Australasia.

You are comfortable in Africa, You do not have solidarity with the continent. There's a difference. If you did you would have not been isolationist during all the independence revolutions in Africa and please don't bring up the wars in Angola, we know what all that was about.

The challenge is for you to re-think the concept of what you mean when you say I am African and if it is in line with the majority of simple said for convenience sake.

jln115:
2. Depends what White South Africans you were talking to, English speaking South African generally don't see themselves as Africans....On the other side of the spectrum Boer people proclaim they can not live anywhere else but Africa since they feel they do not fit in else where.

Yet their entire history has been anti-African and solely based on the homeland, something inspired by their Calvanist dutch religion, which again emanates from Europe and European conquest.

jln115:
3. You make a fair point but as i said African is a designation for Race in SA You can't for an example fill in on Application form that you are African when you are a White person since that would constitute as fraud......You might not find a Boer proclaiming his African since his not black but you will even less likely find one proclaiming his European.{/quote]

A conundrum your people created for themselves. I am only pointing the fact out.

[quote author=jln115 post=78223778]"person who designates himself as "non-African" indeed understands that though he lives on the continent, is not indigenous to it."
Answer this question......How many generations must a ethnic group have lived in a certain place to be indigenous to it? Think carefully about your answer

That's a subjective question but let me put it like this to you. Genetically speaking a "race" of people are tied to a specific continent which ultimately makes them indigenous to that continent and such can claim originality within that defined space as it is defined today.

Human being in general are linked genetically from continent to continent so much so that there is a link from the genetic material beginning in African and spreading across the globe so technically everybody is from everywhere.

I did not construct this racial or continental identity "thingy" that we use to categorize each other today but I do understand its undertones and use.

So back to your question, how many generations must an ethnic group live in an area to be indigenous, well it depends on the paradigm one uses to construct his response.

Rossikk:
I see this response as a cop out. I don't ''want it to say''. It simply DOES ''say''. There are too many congruences between those texts and the later black experience to simply dismiss the texts as ''saying what we want them to say''. Take for instance these two statements:


''Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.''[/QUOTE]

This could be be referring to any peoples at any point in history, people been moving around "from one end of the earth to the other for sometime now", eskimos, Vandals, Vikings, Israelites, etc. As they move they adopt the gods of other lands and most times incorporate them into their pantheons.

[quote author=Rossikk post=78221001]''The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.''

Again Black Hebrew Israelite theology often used in particular to tie the journey of Africans to America, pure conjecture. It is as insane as postulating that a city of Atlantis exists in the middle of the Bermuda triangle because books have made mentioned of sunken cities engulfed and submerged by Tsunamis over time.

Didn't someone buy these African slaves that got to the new world, why the emphasis on ships. It also mentions Egypt or Kemet to be exact. Why doesn't it mentioned the new world specifically. ?

Rossikk:
....

If we give even the merest historical credence to the old testament, we must conclude that these words must refer to the black experience. The black diaspora - descendants of slaves - reside in almost half the total number of countries in existence. No other race compares in this dispersion.

Which other people have been shipped into captivity and scattered among all the nations? NONE but West Africans.

Some nations where reside descendants of African slaves: The Black Diaspora

USA
Brazil
Cuba
Jamaica
Dominica
Germany
Netherlands
St Lucia
Peru
Bolivia
Honduras
Barbados
Trinidad and Tobago
Puerto Rico
Haiti
The Bahamas
Grenada
Bermuda
Paraguay
Venezuela
Uruguay
Chile
Canada
Spain
Sweden
Belgium
Norway
Switzerland
Finland
Mexico
Dominican Republic
St Vincent and Grenadines
Netherlands Antilles
Nicaragua
Panama
French Guiana
Italy
Peru
Guyana
Suriname
Costa Rica
Guatemala
Belize
El Salvador
UK
France
Portugal
Iran
Iraq
India
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Colombia
Ecuador

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_diaspora


To top it all, THIS intriguing statement:

Zephaniah 3:10-12

''From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.''


''Beyond the Rivers of Ethiopia'' [ie River Nile] lies DIRECTLY West and Central Africa.


See, Yahweh is not saying that his dispersed are from Europe, or China, or India, or Mexico, or Australia, or the Americas, or even from the 'Middle East'.

He says they'll come from West Africa.

Black Hebrew Israelite theology as nonsensical as The Nation of Islams claim that Fard Muhammad is the personification of Allah in the flesh and Elijah poole, sorry Elijah Muhammad his messenger.


These are all Afrocentric takes on Hebrew scripture written by a completely different peoples unrelated to West Africans in Language and religious practice.


IF this is still a cop out for you then I surrender.

OyinbowithaTan:
It won't work. He would just enrich himself and his inner circle....protection money.

How different has that been to any time in South Africa from time memorial. The worst outcome would be the same as it always has been.

jln115:
Boer people have no ties with Europe anymore, no family, no immediate ancestors, don't share the same culture, are genetically different.... So how are they just masquerading as Africans

Yes they do have ties with Europe in many ways.

1.Historical- the history of South African Boers/Afrikaaners begins in Europe and demonstrates through settler life, community, language and culture that they have been under European influence including that of the british, leading up to the unification of South Africa in 1910. They have maintained this influence both in their economic, religious, social and political sphere.

2. Socially speaking they have maintained a relatively Euro-centric culture and have adopted minimal to zero African cultural practices. They continue to speak a derivative of a High Dutch used int 17th century and have minimal incorporations of African words in their language structure or sentence formations.


3. Genetics- Most if not all "Boer" are 100% European. Genetic studies have been conducted amongst these groups and results continue to point towards 95-100% European genetic makeup, an effect of a structured isolation that was encouraged and practiced pre-1948 before Aparthied laws even began to exist. Boers in general are a combination of many European groups of people which mostly include the Dutch, French Hugenots, Scottish deserter soldiers and many a Germany defectors and religious groups as well. This the bulk of their genetic makeup.

Land conquest is the only major tie they have to that part of the continent.

jln115:
Did they move after the second boer war?? Did they move after 94? If you actually look at the immigration stats the vast majority of those that moved are of English decent.

There was no incentive to move after the second boer war because their kindred or "their kind" still controlled South Africa, something they did not detest to the extent that they do now. The british had made several concessions to their communities after these wars that allowed them to continue to flourish as government representatives and as farmers in general.

Afrikaners are migrating to the UK and Australia even though those of English and other European ancestry tend to do so more easily because of closer ancestral ties. .

jln115:
I don't get this question.... Are you implying that Boer people don't fight ?

Not at all.

I am speaking of the present Boer/Afrikaaner communities that exist today not the Paul kruger era Boer.

jln115:
This is a ret@rded question....why must a white person PROCLIAM his African in your presence.... In fact I've played football with guys from all over Africa and not one as proclaimed his African when I ask him where his from. And another thing in SA, the word African is used as a designation to a race hence you also won't hear a white SAn PROCLIAM is African since his white.

1. He/She doesn't have to proclaim anything to me specifically but generally speaking this is not the norm in their community in comparison to other particularly "sub Saharan peoples". A Nigerian in normal conversation with other Africans is not hesitant in using this term more so than a WSA Same would go for a Ghanian, Tanzanian, Togolese, Congolese. This is fact. There a preponderance of you tube videos out there that stand as evidence. Just search for a conversation among Africans and listen.

2. I have been to many countries in Africa as well and I would contend that your statement is false. In conversation with groups of Africans in different countries concerning issues within the continent the general term is used interchangeably with their nationality. This has not been my experience with North Africans or White South Africans in "general"

3. "Black" is the major designation for people of African descent in South Africa. It's interchangeability with the word "African" strengthens the argument that White South Africans do not see themselves as "Africans" otherwise it would defeat the purpose for the use of the term.

The word therefore is a "racial" designation and is used as such even among black people to differentiate themselves from people of European or Arab descent that are not indigenous to the continent.

This practice is similarly in North Africa as well where "black" is interchangeable in lexicon with "African". This again strengthens my argument between identification as an "Arab" or so called "North African" and an "African"

OyinbowithaTan:
He is a socialist loon. If he ever got the power he would nationalize any industry he could, steal as much money as he could and wreck the economy. He even studied down in Venezuela in 2012. Chavez/Maduro became billionaires on a government salary of 60K. LOL. He has called for the killing of Boers and even been convicted of it. Other criminal charges he has escaped those. He is just another pied piper making promises to his followers that he will never deliver. He is lucky enough to delivery 3 targets to his followers, people with money, whites/farmers, and other Africans who move to S. Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Malema

A necessary evil needed in a society that is on record to be the most unequal.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/post-apartheid-south-africa-inequality-display-62870808

Capitalism has failed the South African state and the insistence that it's ideals alone will solve the woes of income disparities and upward social mobility for the poorest in that society is glaringly obvious at this stage in the countries democracy.

The so called opposition the DA continue to flaunt their success in the Western cape but if you visit that place and not just cape town but the entirety of the Western cape you will see for yourself that basically the party is a "white" controlled" "keep the status quo" party that is hell bent on protecting the ill gotten wealth of the "whites" in South Africa while slowing down the corrective measures that are need to bring equality to that province.

Malema's socialist ideas are needed in the overall discussion of how South Africa needs to move forward in addressing the economic problems that plague the country and though admittedly he does sometimes use strong rhetoric, the overall ideas of the EFF are not far fetched and by no means a replica of the socialist ideas of Venezuela which has a different history.

The EFF will continue to increase its block of votes because it caters to the underclass and frustrations of the lower class, something the ANC and the DA are ineffective in articulating.

jln115:
Many you say!!! From reading your comments it sure doesn't sound like it.

Since you assert that it is not likely that I have done so, kindly enlighten us on what specifics that have brought you to that conclusion and we can address that.

Rossikk:
Leave the religiosity of it aside for a moment. Are you saying it is inconceivable that the bible records historical details regarding the relations between the ancient Israelites and a powerful alien force that had a pact with them?

I mean, stranger things have happened on this earth. There are stone ruins in existence that have bricks weighing hundreds of tonnes piled up on top of each other... No one knows how early man achieved that - something even modern cranes can't accomplish!

What you say is no different from the relationship between Egyptian Gods who could be considered Alien and the Kemetians, so again it can say what you want it to say

Black Hebrew Israelite doctrine.

The bible can say what you want it to say because a perquisite for faith is a huge amount of imagination.

JaceBlaze:
Don't play dumb by pretending not to remember why brought up Boko Haram,some fool said your military should colonize SA and I had to remind him how inadequately armed the military is to achieve that.I wasn't part of the group that killed the guy and I don't live there,so how in the world do you expect me to explain they killed this guy?

Let me help you explain it since you want to claim ignorance. The overly sensationalized depiction of "Nigerians" in general as criminals on your media is sensitizing your populace and emboldening them to take laws into their hands.

1.Granted there are dubious characters of Nigerian extract that live in your country, the over-whelming evidence is that these gangs or individuals are concentrated in major cities across the vast landscape of South Africa being Johannesburg, Pretoria, Durban and to a lesser extent cape town.

2. Granted there are 1million Nigerians in South Africa, and a 1:1 ratio of women to men, leaving 500,000 males who are possible miscreants, Extrapolate demographically and of that 500,000 who are males, 1/3rd are younger than 17, excluding them from participating in criminal activities because they are minors.

3. That would leave roughly 330,000 potential male criminals. Extrapolate a further 1/3rd for Nigerians ( and I am being frugal here) who are professionals, engaged in legal activities, embassy workers, teachers, legitimate students, etc and you are left with a potential 200,000 Nigerians who are engaged in criminal activity.

So 200,000 potential criminals concentrated within a small area of the aforementioned cities above and it is quite easy to depict them as an invasion of criminals given that the entire population of Black South Africans stands at about 40-49 million and the second largest immigrant population being that of Zimbabwe at 3- 4million people.

This is how an ignorant population are able to be emboldened to take action against one man walking around with his daughter in the middle of a township.

Thalinzrcng:
No doubt you have yourself to live with. It must be a chore and you do have my sympathy. Learn from your mistakes; you might be fine, yet.

Not a chore at all, it is quite effortless, but don't worry next time I will "obscure suspicion" so no one detects my mistakes.

jln115:
The ignorance displayed here love how everybody is talking on behalf of White(specifically Afrikaners) South Africans without actually ever speaking to one.

I have spoken in fact have debated with many of them. I would point out that the ones I debate with tend to be more of british or other euorpean ancestry versus your Afrikaaner kind. The former are little bit more open minded in general.

Chauke:
Your ranting amounts to nothing perhaps focus on your backyard which I think it needs your undivided attention. The current South African issues is our mess and we will deal with it in our own way.

At least you didn't say I was lying because you know what I say is true, your best comeback is you will deal with your issues your way.

We already see how you deal with your issues " your way".

Good luck on your voting Wednesday, make sure you vote red.

Chauke:
You seem to think that the history of South Africa started after 1994 when your kind started infesting South Africa. While you are lecturing us about self hate do not forget to pass the same message to your marauding Fulani herdsmen.
Malema is a loud mouth self serving fake Gucci revolutionary.

You must think me a fool huh, so all the Pakistanis and the large percentage of Indians that live in your townships and durbans came before 1994, men Please!

You must think me a fool huh, so all those Chinese all across the entire landscape with deep Chinese accents came before 1994, Please!

You must think me a fool huh, so all those Europeans buying up land and houses in Cape town and enslaving your brethren as cleaners, dog walkers, construction workers, domestic help all came before 1994. NIGGA PLEASE!


PS Malema is the only one with balls in your country that calls it as it is while the rest talk from both sides of their mouth.

IronGalaxy:
we all know who's indigenous to where, but you must remember many nations were created by either colonialism or slavery resulting people indeginous to other places settling elsewhere,

I just pointed this out. Nation states can be a conglomerate of different racial identities thus the reason why Afrikaaners or White South Africans tend to label themselves as "South African"_a nationality versus refering to themselves as "African' which they reserve for native peoples even within their society.

IronGalaxy:
for example, ancient Mexicans were made of Aztecs and other indeginous tribes but the Spanish came and colonised the Mexicans creating a distinct people and culture,

Aztecs were not "ancient Mexicans" before the spanish arrived, they were ancient Aztecs i.e indigenous Americans. The spanish europeans aks White people arrived and mixed with the indigenous populations to create a large number or mestizo peoples who are now refered to nationally as Mexican. Today you can still identify people of European descent who are Mexican as well as people who are indigenous Americans who are Mexican as well. Do you get the point?

IronGalaxy:
likewise you cannot say for example that Afro-Brazilians are "masquerading" as South Americans by virtue of having African lineage, that would mean even white Brazilians can't be Brazilians since they also trace their origins to Portugal. So who's Brazilian then? Everyone who makes what Brazil what it is right now!

You are misconstruing nationality with ethnicity or race. Brazil is a nationality in the same way that South African is a nationality. An Afro Brazilian is and African of Brazilian nationality. A White Brazilian is a Brazilian of European descent. Anyone else that falls between a mix of all the peoples that populate Brazil ie. Black, Indigenous American and White can claim partial ancestry from any continent depending on what they choose to identify as or what they look like.

IronGalaxy:
The black people of Britain trace their roots mostly from Carribbean countries of whom in turn trace their origins form Africa and yet the Black British are as British as the Queen. That is why I made an example using the United States, America as a concept was born as a result of immigrants, anyone who identifies as American bar the "native" Americans can trace their lineage elsewhere, the whites to Europe, the Blacks from Africa and so forth, then I ask .these people can't call themselves " Americans" before their forefathers originated somewhere? Are these people "masquerading" as Americans then? If you can easily call all other races bar " native" Americans as "Americans" then you shouldn't struggle to call white people " South Africans" since both whites form SA and USA got into these lands though similar means . Colonialism

Again White South Africans do identify with their nationality- South African. They do not identify as African. Identifying with your nationality is fine however as I said earlier no European is going to mistake a Black british man as European because he knows this individual is not an indigene.

JaceBlaze:
I'm not here for you and you not gonna tell me what to say and what not to say.

Eh Mfethu, focus on the topic and explain why your township people pounced on a "Nigerian" man who was walking around with his daughter who had to witness the assault and subsequent death of her father by the hands of her mothers people because of their Xenophobia.

That little girl is half South AFrican and will remember when she grows up.

You are here talking about Boko haram. You don't have shame.

JaceBlaze:
Your useless military can't even win back your zoo they lost to the boko boys below but you want to "colonize" South Africa? huahaha

Eh sharap there and focus on the topic at hand. The killing of someone's husband and father by blood thirsty township people.

Thalinzrcng:
Dude, sir.
The good madam has, eloquently enough, lain bare your error. Will you ever learn to be a bit less presumptuous? You purport to be some kind of guardian of lexicon and carry on ,blunderingly, executing your perceived duties. ..but...
Return and rest, my dear guy. And find some peace, maybe...will you?

being audacious as to point out jargon when I see it is not a duty. Its fact.

Live with it.

IronGalaxy:
They are not Africans by blood granted but they are Africans by "soil" I guess. Your statement is like saying white Americans, Black Americans, Asian Americans etc are masquerading as Americans since the "aboginal" Indians are the real Americans.

The above is an incorrect analysis of my contention. Let me clarify.

Black Africans are indigenous to the continent

Asians indigenous to their continent

Australians indigenous to their continent

Europeans indigenous to Europe.

Native Americans indigenous to their continent

Anyone that moves from one area to another can join a "national Identity" or nation state_ in other words an identity that is based on a nation state bound by sovereignty, borders and often similar cultural practices.

This is the reason a White South African identifies strongly as a "SOUTH" African but not generally as an African because they adhere to the above premise

PS. You can become African or part African genetically by inheriting the DNA that is only indigenous to the continent but again this is not the case with Afrikaaners.

Separateways:
Olu317


Greetings,

The assignment that I give to you Olu317 since you are fluent in modern and Ancient Yoruba culture and language is to create a Yoruba Alphabet

Now the way you do go about is using pictures of things sacred to Yorubas and other West Africans Things that are essential to everyday life that the people hold as sacred Sacred means that this object is essential


I never desired to be a leader to you or anyone just a guide to put you back on track to greatness

Listen when I tell you that despite all your societies effort you are wasting time instructing one by one unless you are grooming masters You must institutionalize by creating textbooks in your own language for teaching large groups

This alphabet must be able to be spoken in any Yoruba dialect yet only read one way so all can understand regardless of dialect As I understand some Yorubas speak French, some Portugese, etc This would unite all those different speakers so the Ooni can reach all Yorubas at once without translation

You must create a number for each letter and a letter for every sound

Then you must sequenced the letters or pictures into a story that speaks of Yoruba creation or second creation of Oduduwa

If you desire magick to happen then you must use the element of fire because fire brings passion Water is great for healing yet fire for embarking upon new paths


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab9tGLyJBRw

With a group you can accomplish it and if you approach the Ooni with this vision I am sure he will help you receive funding to complete it I am sure Ooni would assist

I really feel dyslexic after reading all of that.