₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: ^^^^^^^^^

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 [b]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:[/b]

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Paul did not start all the early churches by what Christ had done in the four gospel books, remember he was not even part of the disciples at the time. He picked the gentile church up from the death, burial and ascension of Christ. Going to the old economy of the law is simply going back into the flesh, We were never part of that setting of the old. Christ could then say, do not take the gospel of the messiah and the king of the Jews as prophesied to the Samaritans and the Gentiles.

shdemidemi: Does the master carry a sinful nature like you do?

Alwaystrue: @Logicboy, but with this knowledge you have, why are you still atheist? Since you understand the words of our Lord and King as it was meant to be, please come back to the Lord He loves you still.

@Ihedinobi, I had mentioned this before but I noted no one touched it with a long pole. I am glad you got something from my post at least.
There was no mediator between God and the Israelites when He gave the ten commandments (it was in His own voice) but the people themselves said to Moses that they did not want to hear God's voice as they were sore afraid. And this was as God finished speaking the 10th commandment. Deut. 5:22.
God later said in Deut 18:17-19 He will raise another prophet who will say all God commanded Him, since they refused to listen to Him at Horeb, and God said He will call to account anyone who does not listen to His words.
Yet we have people here who claim Christ words while He walked on earth are only meant for those under the law I.e. Those of that time, meaning it is only His death that is of meaning to them not his Law-fulfilling life.

But besides these, note that Jesus even explained to the pharisees even some of the laws given that they did not interprete correctly. Paul talked about this too and showed the interpretation according to the righteousness of it. A heart led of the spirit will rightly divide the word of truth.

shdemidemi: 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


Christ found no problem with the law because He did not come with a sinful nature like you and I. The verse above says he was sent like us but not as us. You and I came from Adam and Eve, Christ came through a separate route. He had no sin in him, He would never struggle with sin because he does not have the sinful nature.

Moreover, the bible says in 1 tim 9 that 'Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, ............,,'

I am a righteous man through faith in Christ. The law is meant for the man who is in flesh, carnal, enemy of God etc.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Zikkyy:

stumped what are you talking about?

Because i said "your waka just dey start"? you don't believe am telling you the truth?

shdemidemi: @ bidam

Romans 8:4

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


We both agree the law is righteous, it has no problem fro where it came from. But the problem with the law is this

[/b]3 For what the law could not do, in that it[b] was weak through the flesh,..........

The law is weak when it is applied on me, a sinner from birth. Paul would say

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


Apostle Paul explained this part by personalising the issue. He thought he was alive, when the 'righteous' law came, it killed him, it condemned him.

My own explanation, that I did not break the law does not mean I am a good person. I have just avoided been condemned by the law as far as it last, But God is saying that is weak. He wants us to be truly righteous without the law of condemnation through Moses but by the law of God through Christ.

DrummaBoy: And what is that supposed to mean? Do you want to assume the devil's job: accuser of the brethren?

Goshen360: He is a hater! A murderer! From henceforth, I will spare him not. I used to respect him but he had pushed me to the wall. Anyway, I'm going to the righteousness thread to reply Bidam. I have seen your good write up on the other thread. Sweet dreams. It will take me few minutes to finish my reply to Bidam. I hope I can help him see what the scriptures says. Bless you brother!

obadiah777: well technically God does punish children for their fathers iniquity >>> isaiah 14 vs 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers <<< but thats only because the children in the third or fourth generation is the person coming back in the reincarnation again to pay for sins he committed 3 or 4 generations ago. >>>>> exodus 20 vs 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; <<<< combine the two verses prior to this one >>> ezekiel 18 vs 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


there you have it sire. reincarnation. the son pays for the sins of the fathers only because the son is the father in the reincarnation after the 3rd or 4th generation

Goshen360: Hater of the brethren!

Did you just say IN THE PERSON CHRIST? Is Goshen DIVINE? Is Goshen CHRIST? How is divinity and humanity joined in Goshen?

Go away you murderer!

Goshen360: You! Your offense in me is scriptural and I know it!

but our message is that Christ was crucified. This offends Jewish people and makes no sense to people who are not Jewish.

shdemidemi: Get in to a discussion bro. Repeating the same thing even if you are right would not edify men, you have to read your bible to know what you want to present.

Thanks

shdemidemi: @ Goshen

Good job, thanks for the exposition.

Logicboy03: Well said.

Even when I was a christian, this was the best explanation for the old and new testament. Clearly, Jesus and Paul were aware of the old testament laws. Jesus and Paul didnt preach about throwing away the old testament laws but to explain and interpret them in a consistent manner to the topic of salvation.

The problem is that people do not understand the most important thing about law
-A law is only as good as its interpretation.

For instance- the old law was "an eye for an eye". Jesus came to explain and interprete this law with regards to salavation- that forgiveness is also part of "an eye for an eye". You see, if someone causes harm to you, harming the person n retaliation is not the only way to repay the person back. One can use mediation to show the person why harming others is bad and how he has harmed you has affected you. This same person can pay you some compensation after you have shown him the gentle Jesus way of turning the other cheek with wisdom. Is that not an "eye for an eye"? The person nullifies the harm he caused to you by using his/her own effort to compensate for that harm.


However, Goshen with his high and mighty attitude will preach as if he is the ultimate authority on scriptures. Calling people "judaizers" and saying that the old laws have gone becuase of grace. Then, he will change mouth after a huge backlash. See how he is now saying that we should all come together and reason out the scriptures after starting the thread like an all knowing preacher. Mtchew.


I am happy that people are finally seeing through this guy's shenanigans.

Good morning all! A bright new day

Goshen360: Under this new covenant, we find the new groom 'importing' certain laws from the old covenant into this new. Does that mean the new new bride (the church) is married or under the old agreement that was terminated by death? Of course not! This is why Paul will often quote the law and still tell you\us as the new covenant bride that we are not under the law. That is, we are not under the old covenant ratified by the law. It does not mean the new bride can go commit adultery because she is not under the old covenant. Those were things the old bride (Israel) did that made God terminated the marriage and covenant in order to make a new one. Hence, the explanation to the quote of Bidam:

New International Version (©2011)
Do we, then, nullify the law by (or because of) this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31

Why the above quote? Because the source is quoted from the law of God given to Moses; it was first given under the regime of Moses. Paul is not saying here we should obey the Mosaic and in Galatians saying we should not obey the Mosaic because anyone that will obey the Mosaic, must obey the whole just as it wasn't differentiated that some are moral and some are ceremonial. To break one is to break the whole - that's what the law says because it was given as a whole. One means everything and everything means one.

It is like when a country e.g Nigeria under a particular regime make a constitution and under another regime they amend that constitution, taking away somethings from the old and importing somethings from the old into the new. Does the old constitution have power over the new even though some things were imported from the old to the new? Do people under the new obey the old constitution as though it was the new one while the new is in effect? Can people under the new constitution be judged and punished according to the old constitution? Certainly not! This is revelation of what the new testament\covenant is to the old - an importation from the old does not mean we are under that old marriage or covenant but as God deem it fit, He imports things from the old into the new agreement. Hence, a reference to the old does not place us under that old covenant which was enforced by the law but by grace and the signature being the blood of Christ, the mediator of the new covenant.

New International Version (©2011)
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4

What is the 'righteous requirement' of the law? The context of Romans 8 simply says it is Christ and faith in what God did in\through Christ. Therefore, we can read,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

Romans 10:4

By what Christ did, the righteous requirement of the law is fully met in us, righteousness is imputed unto us. We believe it and it works for us. Well, I'm tired for now. It's sleep o'clock. That's how far I can go for now. God bless you all.

okeyxyz: WOW!!!! WONDERFULL!!! SHOCKING!!!! MY MOUTH HAS TORN(IYANNU )

Bros, So you know all this spiritual principles?? You know that christ became the Law of Moses(sin & death) and died, and by dying has put this Law to Death so that we shall no longer define our moralities based on it?

So why do you still continue to define sin according to how this same law(of Moses) defined sin?? Why not follow liberty(in the Risen Christ) like I've always argued?? Why do you still follow/worship that model of christ who walked with his twelve disciples? This is why you guys still think that celibacy is holy because that christ was celibate(as recommended by the Law of Moses). Whereas, Paul expressly stated: We don't recognize that christ anymore, we don't follow him. He was the Law(of sin) and anybody who follows him is still a sinner.

frosbel: 'Judaizers'

Alwaystrue: @Goshen,
I thought I had mentioned this before. Can you show me where the 10 commandments were termed to be Mosaic? Was it Moses that gave the 10 commandments to the Israelites in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 4&5 or where those commandments not the first time God thundered it down to such a large body of people with his own voice? Did you know where Jesus made the distinction between traditions of men and HIS FATHER's COMMANDS. Have you heard where God said nothing that comes out of His mouth will return to Him void?
Can you not understand that a large number of laws Moses gave after that were an expansion of these same 10 commandments? Did you not see where it was stated most of these were actually about love....did you not notice the emphasis of these commandments to love in the NT?

I challenge you to prove to me that the ten commandments from Loving the Lord God up till not coveting your neighbours goods were given by Moses.

Your cockiness on God's word as I have noted so far is getting more alarming.

Goshen360: When you sin, your new man after the order of Christ (your spirit) DOES NOT participate in such sin because HE CANNOT SIN and he is against or at opposite with the flesh. He is the seed of God in you! It is your body (UNcrucified) that feeds on the desires of the sinful nature that still resides in your body (same temple you live in). In that same body, you will reap whatsoever you sow. He that sows to the FLESH shall of the flesh reap corruption BUT he that sows to the spirit shall reap life. You ask for forgiveness or not, you shall reap what you sow. What is the purpose of asking for forgiveness when someone still go back to same sin tomorrow. The scripture cannot be broken!

If you want scriptures to the above explanations, I can give them as they're readily available.

Goshen360: but our message is that Christ was crucified. This offends Jewish people and makes no sense to people who are not Jewish.

Goshen360: The same thing Judaizers taught to the Galatians church. They taught faith alone is TOO SIMPLE and easy. Works of the law must be added! These are they that trouble the Christian converts! History is repeating itself in our days.

Bidam: if you neglect all the scriptures i quoted initially by asking me this question,then you re not fit to be a teacher.

Goshen360: Okay, to be fair, the TEN COMMANDMENT ASK\DEMANDED PEOPLE BE STONED TO DEATH. Which is better, to make atonement or for the sinner to die by being stoned to death? Is it not the one who is alive that can make atonement of sins? I told you, you don't know the LAW.

Goshen360: I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this message!

Goshen360: What! Bidam!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Please I asked a simple question and if you can't show just ONE single verse in scriptures where it says SOME LAWS ARE MORAL LAW AND SOME ARE CEREMONIAL, THEN YOU ARE NOT WHAT I THOUGHT YOU ARE. Sorry to say that to you. I will answer your question WHEN you show JUST ONE SINGLE verse towards my question.

Thank you!

OLAADEGBU: Enjoy your straw man's argument.

DrummaBoy: Thus saith Hebrew 7:12

[color=#000099][/color]

So what exactly in Hebrew 7:12 supports neo-Judaism? What in that scriptures gives the impression that there are laws to keep in the new testament. Read. It is in English and not greek: Priesthood changed; laws changed. Priesthood of Aaron to that of Christ and his saints. Laws from that of Moses to the Law of Spirit of Life or law of liberty. So...?

Goshen360: Chei, the thread that set the tithe captives FREE. Many folks emailed me to thank me for bringing them to the knowledge of truth.

You have done well my dear brother. The devil has lost it at Calvary. We only walk in the victory the Lord secured for us. This is the victory - our faith.

thorpido: ^^^ I have read the whole chapter and i understand it very well.I want you to show me where in that whole chapter where speaking in tongues is gibberish as you say.

Bidam: That is the mistake these guys keep making,unable to differentiate the ceremonial laws of moses which was abolished by the sacrifice of Christ and the moral laws which is in the heart of everyman( Romans 2:12) and is universal before God now formalize the moral code by giving it to Moses in Sinai which was expanciated under Jesus(Mathew 5:19-43) and Paul(Romans 13:9-10). We need to rightly divide the word of truth really to understand these things or else we will be teaching heresy like this two gospel messages i am hearing.It is actually Law by grace and not Law or Grace.

Tgirl4real: The role of law bi ti bawo?

What has the law got to do with this? By the law, I am sure you mean the law of Moses.



did you try to read that 1John 3 downwards?

The law has been sumed into these 2,

Love your God with all your strength and might and Love your neighbour as yourself.