₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
Yes I have.

Is this yes, to reading all three variants of the Book of Enoch back to back, hmm?

OkCornel:
Now do me a favor and research on the fossils of the Nephilim before going any further

What else, should I research on, is it new born babies, who eyes shine like sunlight and lit the whole room up with sun rays light, hmm? Or about new born babies that upon birth started conversing with God, erhn?

OkCornel:
There's nothing to flesh out with you.

Oh you don't want to deny the above that the Book of Enoch alludes to, erhn?

It's all good. You have my blessing to continue enjoy reading the fables, myths and senseless stories in the three different Book of Enoch.

OkCornel:
Yawns... don't get me started on why you'll believe certain things in the Bible, but will disregard other books the Bible made references to.

I can bet, if you grew up with the knowledge that the book of Enoch was one of the canonical books, you'll argue tooth and nail to defend it... But since it's not in the Bible...oh well, it's very easy to disparage and dismiss it as "wild tales"

Get started on first answering my questions about if you had fully read all three variants of the Book of Enoch and if you caught and read the part about baby giants that are born 45 storey building high in heights, then go open a thread, invite me, to man to man, flesh it out with you

OkCornel:
Seems someone dug up this thread on the book of Enoch showing Jesus quoting from it.
https://www.nairaland.com/1080843/book-enoch-jesus-quoted-it


Very interesting details there.

You don't seem to get it, that the Book of Enoch, which there are at least three variants of it, is fake news poor attempt at reverse engineering on steroids.

Have you read the whole of the Book of Enoch, as in, read the three variants, hmmm? Did you come across and read the part where born baby giants were as high as a 45-story building? Haba! Wetin nau.

bellong:
You need to go back and read, this time slowly.

What is stopping you self prescribing this advice for yourself.

bellong:
@MuttleyLaff,

I don't understand what you are on about. I supposed your rhetorics including me is mistaken me for someone else.

Quoting scriptures doesn't amount to knowledge my brother. You can be bothered with the letters, I will be bothered with the Spirit that gives life in the letters.

God bless you.

I quoted you because you asked if the Book of Enoch is demonic or not so responded you. You also mentioned Jude verse 14 and that you have not read the book though, so I gave you a brief background with the Titus verse and shared my experience of and with the Book of Enoch. I don't think anything I did necessitated you being hostile, defensive and spoiling ready for a fight and/or confrontation. I don't know what got you rattled or why you got the hump. Rhetoric, calling, not rhetoric, rhetoric. Sheesh, who needs.... Too many plastics about.

Go ahead, go read and enjoy the Book of Enoch.

^"7:10Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.
^7:11And the women conceiving brought forth giants
^7:12Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all [which] the labor of men [produced]; until it became impossible to feed them;"
- The Ethiopic version of the book of Enoch 7:10-12

"¹And they took wives for themselves and everyone chose for himself one each. And they began to go into them and were promiscuous with them. And they taught them charms and spells, and they showed them the cutting of roots and trees.
²And they became pregnant and bore large giants. And their height was three thousand cubits."
- The Book of Enoch. Chapter 7:1-2

I'll tell you what, among in it, I read before I chucked the book aside as complete nasty bad bullshit and a waste of time, it is in the Ethiopic version of the book of Enoch 7:10-12, where it said the height of the born baby giants were three hundred cubits, that is the length of one and of a half football field pitch, whilst other versions like the The Book of Enoch, even said it's actually three thousand cubits hence making the born baby giants to be as high as a 45-story building. Haba! Wetin now?"
- Re: The Book Of Enoch Exposed!!!! by MuttleyLaff: 8:07am On Apr 19

PS: Almost 55 pages and not a single mention of the spiritual consequences of religious/christian cults and deliverance from them through Jesus Christ. No mention of the dangers of getting sucked into religious cults and/or trapped in religious fanaticism. David Koresh, the American religious cult leader and Jim Jones, a faith healer and another religious cult leader, both believed they had the right to kill their followers through mass suicide and mass murder.

Not a comment about the dangers of drinking the Kool-Aid, eating grass, etcetera at the command of some delusional, pseudo-pastor/prophet/cult leader. Nothing said about joining religious/christian cults, that control of what members wear, eat or drink, have members withdraw from their families and/or from general society. Members threaten with disfellowshipping and/or excommunication if noticed wanting to not toe the line. They know themselves and so no point in mentioning names and thereby giving them free ads

CodeTemplar:
This book of Enoch isn't it like "Seven books of Moses"? Is it safe for a believer to read?

"The book of Enoch writing are referenced in the Bible by Peter and Jude not as a form of endorsing it but actually the mentioned parts of the book of Enoch in their letters was done to demystify to stories of angels impregnating human beings myths and stories that were going the rounds in and around that time.

Jude and Peter scolded people believing this story and even charged them of slandering the angels, further saying even fellow angels wouldn't think of slandering angels of what they are accused of.

I too, aside the good book, read the bad and ugly books, but that Book of Enoch, is one nasty piece of work, that you literally do a SMH every now and then, when reading it. No wonder, Paul too, aside Jude and Peter, warned against all these Jewish myths like including this one, doing the rounds back then and still does today."
- Re: Who Said Angels Don't Have Sexual Feelings? by MuttleyLaff: 1:04pm On Feb 16

"... It is true you believe that The Book Of enoch was written by enoch, the one who was seven generations from Adam? You want the Book of enoch to be true so bad but its not and you cant get over that..."
- Re: WITCHCRAFT AND HOMOSEXUALITY ARE LIKE A SET OF TWIN. by MuttleyLaff: 7:18am On May 02

You'll retch up if you read the book. I honestly didn't want to gate crash or pooh pooh the Book of Enoch party going on here. I was enjoying reading all the five-star ratings given by the various very enthusiastic and/or passionate lovers of the book.

bellong:
I don't think it is demonic

It might not be demonic but it certainly is a disgracefully bad and unpleasant work of fiction, that immediately gives one a feeling of embarrassment and awkwardness when reading the book and others in same category as it is.

bellong:
It is one of those non-canonical books

It is one of those non-canonical book and rightly so it should be a non-canonical book because it is a falsely attributed book of Enoch. There is no existing, real or genuine book of Enoch. All thats out there are frauds

bellong:
Jude made reference to it from verse 14

"Don't pay any attention to any of those senseless Jewish stories and human commands (i.e. shouldn't pay attention to Jewish myths or fables) These are made up by people who won't obey the truth."
- Titus 1:14

Nobi today yansh, don tay, for fowl back. Senseless Jewish stories, Jewish myths and/or Jewish fables, have been around, and they revolved around fantasies, that goes, as far back or as early as Genesis 6, culminating in slanderous claims with angels roped in and so there, why in Titus 1:14 above, Paul was advising Timothy, to sternly correct believers on these senseless Jewish stories, Jewish myths and/or Jewish fables.

Jude, parroting Peter, mentioning a section of the book of Enoch at verse 14, wasn't as a form of endorsement, but rather he was debunking a myth and at same time, lambasting those who believe the senseless Jewish stories, Jewish myths and/or Jewish fables. Read Jude contextually to get a proper handle of this and make sure you read Jude contextually without the mistranslated parts.

bellong:
I have not read the book though.

"It is because you are a confirmed and bonafide bible illiterate, you are way behind and dont measure up to 2 Timothy 2:15 in any shape or form, is why you think I am full of inconsistencies. If you are asked to state what and where I am alledged to be inconsistent, you will begin to stammer and be chomping teeth

You avoid answering questions because you know you will be pinned down and get being exposed. It is as simple as that. You are nothing than a paper tiger, huffing and puffing. I have and easily eat people like you with breakfast

Would you believe it that this guy believes that The Book Of Enoch was written by Enoch, the one who was seven generations from Adam? You want the Book of Enoch to be true so bad but its not and you cant get over that, so refuse to answer the question and resort to introducing some unrelated, unconnected and totally different homosexuality subject

Do you also believe in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas too? Another Gnostic book? I was just about bringing the bird out of the pocket and havent even started proper questioning you about the Book of Enoch before you developed cold feet, cat got your tongue and so clamping up.

Let me remind you, of one of the many fascinating and interesting narratives, that you read in the Book of Enoch

"¹And after some days my son Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son.
². And his body was white as snow and red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright.
³. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness.
⁴. And his father Lamech was afraid of him and fled, and came to his father Methuselah.
⁵. And he said unto him: 'I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious.
⁶. And it seems to me that he is not sprung from me but from the angels, and I fear that in his days a wonder may be wrought on the earth.
⁷. And now, my father, I am here to petition thee and implore thee that thou mayest go to Enoch, our father, and learn from him the truth, for his dwelling-place is amongst the angels.'
⁸. And when Methuselah heard the words of his son, he came to me to the ends of the earth; for he had heard that I was there, and he cried aloud, and I heard his voice and I came to him. And 1 said unto him: 'Behold, here am I, my son, wherefore hast thou come to me?'
⁹. And he answered and said: 'Because of a great cause of anxiety have I come to thee, and because of a disturbing vision have I approached.
¹⁰. And now, my father, hear me: unto Lamech my son there hath been born a son, the like of whom there is none, and his nature is not like man's nature, and the colour of his body is whiter than snow and redder than the bloom of a rose, and the hair of his head is whiter than white wool, and his eyes are like the rays of the sun, and he opened his eyes and thereupon lighted up the whole house.
¹¹. And he arose in the hands of the midwife, and opened his mouth and blessed the Lord of heaven.
^12. And his father Lamech became afraid and fled to me, and did not believe that he was sprung from him, but that he was in the likeness of the angels of heaven; and behold I have come to thee that thou mayest make known to me the truth.'
¹³. And I, Enoch, answered and said unto him: 'The Lord will do a new thing on the earth, and this I have already seen in a vision, and make known to thee that in the generation of my father Jared some of the angels of heaven transgressed the word of the Lord.
¹⁴. And behold they commit sin and transgress the law, and have united themselves with women and commit sin with them, and have married some of them, and have begot children by them.
¹⁵. Yea, there shall come a great destruction over the whole earth, and there shall be a deluge and a great destruction for one year.
¹⁶. And this son who has been born unto you shall be left on the earth, and his three children shall be saved with him: when all mankind that are on the earth shall die [he and his sons shall be saved].
¹⁷. And they shall produce on the earth giants not according to the spirit, but according to the flesh, and there shall be a great punishment on the earth, and the earth shall be cleansed from all impurity.
¹⁸. And now make known to thy son Lamech that he who has been born is in truth his son, and call his name Noah; for he shall be left to you, and he and his sons shall be saved from the destruction, which shall come upon the earth on account of all the sin and all the unrighteousness, which shall be consummated on the earth in his days.
¹⁹. And after that there shall be still more unrighteousness than that which was first consummated on the earth; for I know the mysteries of the holy ones; for He, the Lord, has showed me and informed me, and I have read (them) in the heavenly tablets.
- Book of Enoch 106:1-19"
- Re: WITCHCRAFT AND HOMOSEXUALITY ARE LIKE A SET OF TWIN. by MuttleyLaff: 9:51pm On Apr 28

The book and other variants of it, are best flushed down the toilet, where they belong. If you start, you won't last five minutes into reading the book, before you'll shove it away, from finding the content, being ludicrous and a waste of even idle time.

jcross19:
there is a difference between God is love in which Jesus came to preach to us and to cruel one in the old testament!

We are not talking about "God is love in which Jesus came to preach to us" but we are discussing and reviewing an incident that happened over around 4000 years ago between God, Elisha, the city Bethel and its young men inhabitants

jcross19:
in book John 10:8, Jesus said those that came before him were thieves in verse 10. He said thieves come to steal and destroy!.

Will you please stop proof-texting with John 10:8, hmm?
1/ Are you calling Elisha a thief ni, hmm?
2/ What is the relevance of stealing and destroying with the subject under discussion here?. Please explain.

GistUpdates:
Oyo State Governor, Seyi Makinde, has nominated a 27-year-old alumnus of the Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife, Seun Fakorede, as a commissioner in the State.

The 2016 Civil Engineering graduate is joining Alhaja Faosat Joke Sunni and Professor Rapheal Afonja who were last week nominated to join the 14 others who were inaugurated last week.

GOFRONT:
Why y'all wonna Judge dude by his looks??
Y'all forgot don't judge a book by tha Cover?

Somebori please give this poster an "oti sẹwọn" chilled cold bottle of orijin and a truckload of kolanuts ojaare.

Sharming95:
Hw will dis guy head a whole ministry...sumone if given a company might not b able to run it well...abeg even if day said not too young to rule...no b to day ridicule and misuse it...
just look at is appearance and hairstyle...he many experience him get...dis governor no try on dis...dis guy is not mature enuff for dat job

iluvdonjazzy:
great, but that his hair make e go bab am

kolafolabi:
He should at least cut the dread off so as to look responsible.

[img]https://s3/images/cbe.jpg[/img]
Baron Victor Olufemi Adebowale,
Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE)
Life peerage. Member of the House of Lords UK.

jcross19:
don't justify crime against humanity in the bible by relating it to God it makes God looks cruel!

There is no crime. If there is one, then it will be a crime against God committed by those 42 young men and others that might have escaped with bruises but at least had their lives still intact.

So are you saying Moses is lying against God, when he told the Israelites what would happen to their children, if they should reject God and prefer going after idols, false gods etcetera, which is what Bethel, that Abraham and Jacob had previously known with fondest memories has become, it had become the headquarters for idol worshiping and paying homages to false gods.

There is nothing that God ever does that makes God cruel. You have a dim view and narrow understanding of God, if you think and/or talk that way.

jcross19:
like I have said many atrocities were committed in Bible in the name of God and God did not send them! how many people have God killed since then?check very well all the wars in the bible were carried out by mortal men why can't God kill them by Himself? or you believe the story of Noah? funny!.

... and you're being told that this particular episode between Elisha and those 42 young men was sanctioned by God. It isnt an atrocity, it was a self-inflicted outcome and bound to happen when they decided to reject God and also on top be hostile to His representative. Fyi, the Israelites had a covenant from which this kind of punishment of wild animals going after their children, when they are kids or adult, was spelled out to them by Moses and they accepted and agreed to it

Dantedasz:
Slamming head on wall meme

"Ko gba agidi, which kind rough play be this nau, slamming head against brickwall, like say hin wan use head scatter brickwall, pesin go just wake up and decide hin wan have headache by force, by lakuli force. Seems eventuary hin village people, just like that, don get this one's number"

Dantedasz:
I have told you several times that talking to you in particular is like slamming my head on a concrete wall because when you talk you go on like a broken record.
If what you could pick from all I have said is that I am a poster boy for islam and muslims when I have clearly stated that christianity and Islam are two sides of a bad fake coin,then I am sorry I can't help you if you have comprehension problems.

It is better you slam your thick blocked head on a concrete wall, maybe that way, your brain will reset

I wish its me slap reset your brain for you, because your hand lacks correlation with your brain, you when you get a hard on, jump on faith threads and just straight away begin typing nonsense with your rationed data. Everything goes swoosh over your head, like as if it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet and "you don't know warris going on" You have a one-track mind, you do selective reading and you're self conceited. Why dont you first learn to ride, before you next jump on that your high horse, eh? Mtcheeew.

Mind your own business, mind your own lane, mind your own race. Stop sticking your nose in other people's affairs or sexuality. Stick to the message and not the messengers, stick to the program

Dantedasz:
Your so called "step out of the door" question is very irrelevant to the discourse.
You do not know my age so please let us keep parents out of this. Most times I avoid you because I have no time for this dancing around in circles.
My point is and remains that christianity has always been a religion spread through violence and intolerance. Christian's have no right to point fingers at muslims over violence because they are different sides of the same coin.

Oooh, someone is getting touchy here. Someone cant take the heat in the kitchen. Someone is unable to take as much as they give. Someone all of a sudden is a crusader, mouthpiece, poster boy and advocate for Muslims. What an unsophisticated line is "most times I avoid you because I have no time for this dancing around in circles." Pftt.

Dantedasz:
The case of Elisha and the kids is an example of a blood thirsty religion and no amount of explanation or spin can remove this or cover this.

According to the terms and conditions of the Covenant between the Israelites and God, that was the expected punishment, as in, to be mauled by wild animals, literally or figuratively, for what transpired between Elisha and those young men. Dont forget the crucial info, that, they were young men and not kids.

Dantedasz:
If a single person has an imaginary friend they're insane. If a group of people have an imaginary friend its called religion

Having imaginary friends is not uncommon in some many growing up kid's lives, but they soon or later outlive the "usefulness and/or company" of those friends.

If you were someone that is bible literate, you would have known that:
1/ God is not an imaginary friend
2/ Religion that is true, pure and without any fault has to do with compassion. True, pure and one without any faults, has to do with having concern(s) for the sufferings or misfortunes of others and being sympathetic towards them

Dantedasz:
Christian's like to lie and pretend their gospel was spread peacefully when in actual fact they are as blood thirsty and intolerant as the muslims.
Apart from all the genocide committed by their god and his so called prophets in the old testament the spreading of the Pauline gospel was superintended with as much violence and intolerance as Al Qaeda and Boko haram.
You only need to goggle early christianity and violence to get the full gist.
The Christian's on this thread while wanking themselves off mentioned Hollywood movies like "Bruce Almighty and "Liar, liar"as examples of how difficult it is to be god. Such movies have no basis in reality and are as imaginary and absurd as their religious manual written and produced by the Roman's.

While we are on Hollywood films,I suggest films steeped in real history such as the movie "Agora" 2009. You might learn something about how christianity was spread with violence and intolerance of dissenting views.

Legitimately laughing out loud at the emboldened. Smh.

Dantedasz:
Look lady, forget all the lies and spin, Christianity was spread through violence and intolerance once Constantine and his mother Helena decided to make it the official state religion.

"Nwanne, Christianity, never started in any upper room on any day of Pentencost. Christianity, as in, Constantine Christianity, in cahoot with the "church" started in Rome."
- Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by MuttleyLaff: 8:33am On May 30

"... the catholic started Christianity, this so, because the Roman Catholic Church was formed, after shady deal(s) and/or sell-out to the State by the "Church", as it was the Roman Emperors Constantine's and Licinius' Edict of Milan in AD 313 which established a policy of religious freedom for all, as in, this was a proclamation that permanently legalised Christianity in the Roman Empire, and so paved the way for Christianity to be the official religion of the entire Roman Empire too.

The introduction of pagan religions and assimilation of paganism influences was a tragic compromise by the early believers, as this resulted in the Romanization and paganization of the early believers' faith and the "Christianization" of pagan beliefs as we not just know but celebrate then and celebrate even up until now.

Anyway, the Roman Empire, adopted the Roman Catholic Church (i.e. RCC) as "official" church during Roman Emperor Constantine's reign, and it's worth noting, that, the supremacy of the Roman bishop (i.e. the papacy or pope) was set up, put into place, aided and abetted through the support of the Roman Emperors (i.e. notably Constantine and his successors)

Recall that I earlier mentioned the Edict of Milan in AD 313, which was a letter signed by the Roman Emperors Constantine and Licinius, that proclaimed religious toleration in the Roman Empire, well, in AD 325, Constantine called the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325, in an attempt to unify Christianity when doctrinal disputes arose, like for example Arianism, all about doctrines named after Arius, a teacher in the early 4th century A.D and so Constantine presided over this first ecumenical church council

So quick recap, by the 1st century AD, ekklēsia birthed on the teachings of Jesus Christ and later founded on the day of Pentecost in the upper room with a bunch of 120 believers.

By the 2nd century AD - believers already denouncing teachings, seen as heresies, such as Gnosticism, Montanism etcetera.

In the 4th century AD - ekklēsia was transformed, emerged Christians, an evolved "church", finally gets legalized and then promoted by Emperors Constantine and Theodosius I, as the state church, of the Roman Empire and so yes also that, legendarymega is right, that the Catholics, are the original owner of your bible, because truly, the RCC are the original owner of your bible version(s), because incidentally and truly, those versions were made off the back of "The Vulgate", which was an accepted Latin translation of the original Old and New Testament texts.

Some even called, "The Vulgate", the "The Vulgar" bible. Anyway, Jerome, of RCC, was the person, who translated the original Old and New Testament texts and compiled them into a single volume of the 66 books we enjoy today"
- Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by MuttleyLaff: 8:33am On May 30

I agree with you that Christianity was spread through violence and intolerance once Constantine and his mother Helena decided to make it the official state religion. I've on varied occassions, typed about how the church was romanticised by Constantine and etcetera and also why I often type that, if only more christians read their bibles there'd be less christians.

Dantedasz:
You can't quote that story book to show that Christians are peaceful. They are as blood thirsty and intolerant as the Muslims.

Please dont be dishonest and desperate to make a point. The bible preaches passive resistance, love of peace, reconciling with adversaries, turning the other cheek, handing off the shirt on ones back etcetera

Dantedasz:
Smoking Chimp

Say hi to your chimp cousin in the JPEG up there for me. Tell him smoking is bad for his health

Dantedasz:
Keep on masturbating all over the thread as usual

Unlike you I have no reason and/or excuse to be masturbating over this thread or any other thread for that matter.

Dantedasz:
The plain fact is no matter how much you try to spin this Elisha story it is bad for him and for his God.
",Go up baldie"is now a sin in the books of Elisha and his God

The direct and plain fact is that, the comment "go up baldie" actually was a mockery statement telling Elisha to go to hell, go up in blazes just like his boss Elijah did, that they had and want nothing to do with God nor His representative Elisha.

Dantedasz:
Then the appropriate punishment is to be mauled to death by bears.

According to the terms and conditions of the Covenant between the Israelites and God, that was the expected punishment, as in, to be mauled by wild animals, literally or figuratively

Dantedasz:
This is why I always say having a discussion with religionists requires suspension of the use of the brain.
Reasoning with religionists is an effort in absurdity just like smacking your head against a concrete wall.

This is why I always say having a discussion with people suffering from biblical illiteracy and who suspend using their grey cells is like feeding pigs with berries

OpenYourEyes1:
His compassion is not an excuse to continue living in sin. Haven't you heard of the global flood of Noah, (with unbelievable evidences around the world)?. Haven't you heard of Sodom and Gomorrah? Haven't you heard that millions of people are still hell? We need to stop deceiving our filthy selves

Here is the deal, right?
First, God sent to those bears in accordance with the curses associated with the covenant between Him and the Israelites. Elisha only activated those curses that triggerred and set the wild animal bears to come after their misbehaving young men adult children

Second, dont attribute an adjective that is not becoming of God to Him. God is not evil, is not wicked and God certainly isnt ruthless. Nwanne capisce?

OpenYourEyes1:
People still don't understand how GOD ALMIGHTY hate sin. I think we will know how ruthless our Righteous GOD is in the last days and in death.

"Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth"
- Exodus 34:6

"The LORD is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness"
- Psalm 103:8

Becareful how you speak of God. God is Compassionate and not ruthless

OpenYourEyes1:
By the way, Elijah sent the bears not GOD. It shows how impatient man is compared to GOD. We are in the time of grace my dear friends. Don't abuse this privilege by GOD.

Mankind needs to repent and stop taunting the CREATOR on a daily basis.

It is the other way round, please dont get things twisted

Knew it'll be naptu2 uploading this without even first opening the thread to see who. Welldone sir

RandomGuy48:
Why shouldn't it make a difference? Older people are considered more responsible for their actions than little children are. This statement doesn't make sense.

But let's suppose they were in fact younger children. Your complaint still has a number of issues. You claim that 42 kids were mauled to death. The problem is, it doesn't say "mauled to death." It just says "mauled" (or "tare" in the translation you cite). That indicates definite injury, but not necessarily death.

But let's suppose they were killed. Some points are overlooked when people complain about this passage. First: It says 42 were killed. Now, those who complain about the passage frame this as being terrible, that 42 were attacked! What they seem to not miss is the fact that this means there were at least 42 that were in a group here (the language implies there were more, as it doesn't say all 42). This is important for two reasons.

First, in regards to the above question of whether they were killed or injured. It is very difficult for two bears to manage to kill 42 people unless those people are all just standing around not moving while the bears are on the attack. If you're with a big group and some bears show up and start attacking people, are you just going to stand there dumbly? No, you're going to run away as fast as you can. Bears can kill people but it takes them a little bit of time to do it (versus simply injuring them, which is obviously faster) and it would be very difficult for the bears to have time to kill that many people while they're all running away.

Second, do you think 42+ people decided to go out of their way just to throw a few insults at Elisha for the heck of it? That seems implausible. Far more likely is that they were actually threatening him and were planning to rob or possibly kill him (the "go on up" jeer can refer to going on up to heaven). If someone is attacking someone else in order to kill and rob them, is it particularly problematic to defend that person by attacking or (if necessary) even killing the robber?

They werent kids, these were young men on a concerted attack and organised mission that God and His prophet representing Him, are not wanted, would not be tolerated, are not welcome in their city.

Dantedasz:
Hilarious.

Nothing hilarious in this tragic incident, but quite a lot to learn from and out of it, I'll say.

Dantedasz:
The more they struggle to explain the passage the tighter the noose gets.

There isnt any struggle in explaining the passage. The passage is more like, if you know, you know. Who no know, no go know

Dantedasz:
1. They were not children but youths.

They werent children, they were youths, young men, about same age as Elisha in fact, when the bears attacked.

Dantedasz:
2. You can't dictate to god: He kills who he wants and how he wants.

Death is inevitable. Something must kill a man. Death will come and is mandatory too

Death is a universal truth that can never be defied. We cant change this truth, we all are born with limited breath. Weirdly enough, when you come to think of of it, there are no punishment far worse than death.

Dantedasz:
3.The 42 kids were not killed by the two bears but maimed.

They were killed, mauled by the bears. The young men were frozen to the spot with fright when the bears appeared. They likely wanted to run but their feet were literally rooted to the ground, as if glued to the spot and locked-in to the ground. They couldnt run, because they were paralysed out of fear of seeing two blood thirsty bears baying for their puny hide and arse.

Dantedasz:
4.The children were possessed by demons to insult the God of man.

Ecclesiastes 7:17 states that: "Do not excel at wickedness, nor be a fool. Why die before your time?"

Those young men got their comeuppance. They carelessly shortened their lives by their bad and/or foolish actions. Abraham and Jacob, probably were turning in their graves at the behaviour of those young men. Abraham and Jacob, were probably rubbing their eyes in disbelief, wondering isnt this the same Bethel we knew and a place we associated with God.

It is tragic, that because Deuteronomy 6:2 was ignored, the young men didnt live a long time, didnt enjoy a long life and the promise that their days may be long didnt happen for them.

Dantedasz:
5. The usual translation excuse.

Pathetic and sickening justification of outright genocide and cold blooded murder.

There was a covenant between them and God. The covenant had terms and conditions. Read Deuteronomy 5:1-33 and Deuteronomy 6:1-25, to know more about the covenant made between them and God at Mount Horeb.

Dantedasz:
This same bible passage was treated on these boards a few years ago. As usual the Christian's had their brains so far up their arses you could smell the bullsh1t from miles away.
Twisting and turning as they tried to justify murder.

https://www.nairaland.com/1062252/elisha-little-children-what-does

The contribution OLAADEGBU posted on that thread went swoosh over everyone's head, like as if it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet and "people didn't know warris going on"

budaatum:
My claim from the beginning of this thread is that God never told nor gave anyone a reason for what God did, and that what we read in the quoted text is precisely one person's opinion about what happened and God never killed anyone, not even those you listed, which is the equivalent of the history of Biafra as written by the conquering looters!

Your claim from the beginning is marked by fault(s).

Fyi, there was a covenant. In fact, Moses warned them about the blessings and the curses of the covenant. Elisha, rightfully just referred to the curses, when they indirectly rejected God, by asking Elisha to take a hike and leave their city alone. They rudely flipped the bird, gave Elisha the middle finger and told him to fairk off literally

budaatum:
I don't see why I should ponder on you taking me where I would be slayed. I'm after all not some child whom you would scare with the boogeyman. And by the way, the name is budaatum. buda, for short.

"¹In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job.
This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and eschewed evil (i.e. shunned evil).
²And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
³His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men (i.e. of all the sons) of the East"
- Job 1:1-3

I recommend you ponder on these verses

mysticwarrior:
If the devil decide to repent and ask God for forgive, would God still forgive him?

Yes, if the devil does decide to repent and ask God for forgiveness, God wouldnt hesistate to forgive, but unfortunately the devil has a grim determination to do or die and take as many souls as is possible, down with the devil.

jcross19:
see we should stop defending double standards in the bible! Those things that happened in the bible were crime against humanity! The injustice against the poor in the old testament was every pathetic even Jesus condemned their action in the book of Mathew 12:1-10.

What are you on about with this comment. What crime against humanity are you talking off here. Are you aware of the historical story of those young men's town or city? Can you imagine how Abraham and Jacob would have felf in their graves at the rebuffs of these young men, hmm? What injustice against the poor in the old testament in relation to this unnecessary tragic event brought upon themselves did Jesus condemn?

jcross19:
so those kids are wicked!

They are not kids. They werent kids. They were young men, just as Elisha was when the incident happened.

MrPresident1:
Anathema!

Charlatan!
Wee yu kip kwayet there, or I'll expose your ignoranus arse

mysticwarrior:
you said Satan is a messenger of God, proof it.

Satan is an ex-messenger of God

MrPresident1:
Angel means messenger, angels are the sons of God

Angels in the the bible can be human being or celestial beings, but this fact is a red herring and has nothing really to do with Job 2:1 below, the misinterpretation of that I am concerned about.

MrPresident1:
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Origin
Old English engel, ultimately via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek angelos ‘messenger’; superseded in Middle English by forms from Old French angele

Job 2:1 where it says "sons of God" has nothing whatsoever to do with angels, the otherwise types known to be celestial beings

The "sons of God" are human beings, who happened to be actual sons of Job, but described the same way and/or similar manner their father, Job was described in Job 1:3, as the greatest of all sons of God from the East. It was these seven sons of Job, not celestial beings, that presented themselves as per their family custom/tradition before the Lord and Satan came along to rear an ugly and sinister head

Shepherd00:
Okay Liar, Liar.
You mean I shd send you a mail?

Contact me via my Profile page's "Send E-Mail Message To MuttleyLaff" link, so I can send you the verse

Shepherd00:
Oh really? I didn't know this.
42 young men!!! That was quite a huge crowd to taunt just one man.

They made a suicidal stance when they indicated that Elisha should move, stay and keep away from their town

Abraham and Jacob probably were turning in their graves, thinking isn't this the same Bethel we know, that has come to this

Shepherd00:
I have seen 'Bruce Almighty', but not seen Lair, lair. Will look for it.

Its "Liar, Liar" and not "Lair, Lair"

Shepherd00:
Which verse is that?

Contact me via my Profile, I'll mail you the verse and possibly fill in more details if you do ask

Shepherd00:
Oh really? I didn't know this.

42 young men!!! That was quite a huge crowd to taunt just one man.

Yes they were young men. As I said, there is a reason for every thing. There is no smoke without fire. There actually is a verse that Elisha activated what triggerred that divine retribution

Shepherd00:
None of us understands Anything really.

No one can tell God how to rule His earth.


I remember a movie a saw long ago. 'Bruce Almighty'. A dissatisfied man who complained about everything, until he was offered the job of being God, then he almost went insane because he couldn't even understanding all the languages people used in prayers to him.

He then understood that God's job was not an easy one.

"the above YouTube clip features Jim Carey, known for his role as Bruce in the 2003 Hollywood movie "Bruce Almighty," where in, God (i.e. Morgan Freeman acted as God) actually contacts Bruce and offers him all of His powers, if Bruce thinks he can do a better job than God. Try and watch the movie, if you never have watched it. Good movie. Another good movie with Jim Carey in it, is "Liar, Liar" It's about a kid, who prayed and wish that his dad, a lawyer, will stop lying for a whole day and the wish was immediately put into practice."
- Religion / Re: Purpose Of Creation? by MuttleyLaff: 7:53am On Jul 22