₦airaland Forum

obonujoker:
This question has lingered amongst many believers... Some believe there will be a secret rapture, and some do not... However what does the word of God say about the question?

Firstly... What does rapture mean? Rapture has many synonyms i.e caught up, snatched away, removed from.. the Bible states, a day will come when the Lord Jesus will come to remove his saints (the believers in the Earth), so that they can be with him forevermore. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

However does the Bible say this event will be secret to believers alone?

What exactly is the “secret Rapture” teaching? It is the teaching that the Christian church will be secretly removed from the world (to meet Jesus in the sky, where they will stay for years), so that the unbelievers who are left behind will not know where all the Christians have gone.

These unbelievers will be left on the earth to endure seven years of tribulation, which will be initiated by the Antichrist, who will be revealed only after the Rapture has taken place. The prophecies of the seven seals, the seven trumpets, and the seven bowls (in the book of Revelation) will supposedly be fulfilled during the Tribulation.

What, then, does the Bible teach? At the time of Christ's ascension, the disciples were told that “this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11).
His ascension was visible and physical; his second coming will likewise be visible and physical.

Matthew 24:21 & 31 teaches that the coming of Christ will be “as the lightning” (vs. 27), that “all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet” (vss. 30-31).

In addition to describing this event as noisy and visible to all the inhabitants of the earth, this passage also warns us against belief in a secret coming of Christ: “Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it” (vs. 23). And “if they say to you, Look, He is in the desert! do not go out; or Look, He is in the inner rooms! do not believe it” (vs. 26). There will be no question about what has happened after Christ has returned.
People left behind will not be dreaming up explanations they will be mourning because their judgment has come

Also going against the theory of a secret Rapture is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, which teaches that two events will occur prior to the coming of Christ: (1) “the falling away” (or “the rebellion” [niv], or, literally, “the apostasy”) and (2) the revelation of “the man of sin” (vs. 3), who is generally identified with “the Antichrist” (1 John 2:18).
Now whether we understand the Antichrist as nothing more than the spirit of Antichrist (1 John 4:3; cf. 2:22 and 2 John 7), or as a particular individual, one thing is clear: this revelation of the Antichrist will occur prior to Christ's coming, not afterwards.

The passage that is most frequently used to substantiate the idea of a secret Rapture, with unbelievers being left behind, is Luke 17:31�37, which speaks of “two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left” (vs. 34). This passage does indeed teach that unbelievers will be left behind, but comparing Scripture with Scripture, we must conclude that those left behind are left behind to suffer judgment.

Unbelievers will not be left behind to go through a seven-year Tribulation and have a second chance to accept the Lord during that time. This idea of a second chance is emphasized again and again in Left Behind, but it is foreign to Scripture.

You can never enter heaven with your blood... You only overcome with the blood of the lamb, and by the words of your testimony (Jesus Christ).

Prepare!!!!

REFERENCE

https://opc.org/new_horizons/NH99/NH9907b.html

Why do you ask men what Jesus himself said no man not even him knows about? Except God only?

Did you read any of the apostles speak of rapture?

hoopernikao:
I have explained to you and also asked you to show where the scriptures pointed to a miracle worker being same as the PR guy or social media journalist. Point to one. All healing and miracles are reported by spectators, recipients etc. Hence why I advise you that if you want what you are asking for you must follow the path of needing healing? Spectator?.

Bro, don't major on the minor and end up losing both ways.

I showed you Jesus when he addressed Jonh's disciples.

eyinjuege:
Any organisation whether spiritual or physical will fail without a structure.
I believe their calendar is made prayerfully too.
Being a Christian should be shown in all aspects of your life. Not just holiness aspect.
Christ himself was a multifaceted man. He dined with poor, rich, sinners etc.
He performed what can be termed as miracles regarding health, wealth etc.
He brought money out of the inside of a fish caught to pay Caesar his dues, he made wine from water to prevent shame upon the celebrant, he miraculously fed thousands from 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread. So many other things done which can be termed miracle or paranormal.
Don't limit Christianity to just catering to the poor, as it caters to the rich also. Don't limit it to just salvation of sinners, as it caters to 'holy people too. Don't limit it to building factories, as it can build churches too.
I know these men of God are just human like I am, and they don't always get it right, so they can be condemned too if they do anything wrong.
The question now is what do we consider as wrong morally, and what does God consider as wrong?

Can you share any scripture where Christ preached prosperity?

runningriot:
"Interestingly you can't blame this pastors because there are Bible verses that support this claim, mostly James and Paul's epistles"

Sorry, please I don't understand this paragraph, particularly the dependent clause "There are Bible verses that support this claim". I want you to shade more light and be direct bro"

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Galatians 3:10-12
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”


These pastors preach that once you're a Christian, nothing you do is considered a sin because God no longer sees you but sees the substituted Christ in your place.

These verses have often been also been interpreted to mean any attempt to obey any of the commandments of the law means you're cursed and not living by faith.

As long as you attempt not to lie or steal or fornicate, etc you're cursed since you're living under the kaw instead of accepting the finished works of Christ.

Yet we see other verses that say those who commit such sins would end up in the lake of fire. It becomes a contradiction.

eyinjuege:
I have been to several churches.
They have topics they focus on every month.
The whole of January may be prosperity, the whole of the following month may be divine health, the next month holiness and sanctification etc..
If you visit the church the whole of January, it will be as though all they do there is prosperity, which is a fallacy. Depending on the month you visit, it will seem as though that's their focus.
It's simply untrue that all they focus on is prosperity.
It's the model most of these big churches run, so they can cover a lot of topics.
I know churches ask for tithes and offering in every service which has always been the norm too and perhaps that's why people think all they focus on is prosperity. You however cannot be forced to give it.
I haven't been in a church or paid tithes in years btw.
Now speaking generally winners has provided employment for thousands from their schools- primary, secondary and various universities. Education is also key for any society to grow. The West/Europe is seriously worried because of how covid disrupted the education of their children. They know the value and the implication of this.
Other than academic staff, administrative staff are plenty, cleaners, cooks/kitchen staff etc are all employed too.
Nobody should downplay the impact of these private universities in Nigeria. They have been a plus.
Tithes and offerings do not run the schools.

You're right. The have a calendar on what to preach.

But is it scriptural or simply human devising? Human devising being mostly attributed to devil's inspiration.

Did you read anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or his disciples dedicated some epistles for messages of prosperity while other days were for righteousness?

Now as a visitor to the church, who strolls in during one of their Prosperity month, what will I learn of the gospel except that it is only for gain which is against the scriptures.

StagethemTVee:
Davido say "Who dey Breathe"? This guy like to throw sucker punches. I love the man

lalasticlala

The difference between Davido and Wizkid.

You won't hear all this noise from Wiz.

He'll just tweet when the single will drop and the world would be anticipating the banger!

Well that's the good thing about the industry everyone with their personality.

MaxInDHouse:
Satan knows and fully understands the nature of man, he's well aware of our freewill so he wants each and everyone of us to either start his own PERSONAL religion or just as you said find a gathering that would be suitable for each person's heart desire! Luke 11:23 compare to Genesis 3:2-5
But God's children must be prepared to break away from the ways of life that's common to the world {1John 2:15-17} put of their old personality {Romans 6:6; Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:9} surely this is not going to be easy so each child of God must exact himself vigorously {Luke 13:24} after finding God's congregation then start learning how to put on the new personality! Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10
That's why Jehovah's Witnesses must congregate as one family {John 17:20-23} that's totally different from those who just want to maintain their heart desires {John 17:14 compare to Revelations 18:4} striving to stick together as one and encouraging one another to keep the new personality that we are putting on! Hebrews 10:24-25 compare to Revelations 7:13-14
May you have PEACE!

I don't think JW would be suitable for him simply because your organization is just as guilty of the reason he has forsaken gatherings altogether. Having tried JW myself.
You not only twist the bible to suit your own meaning. Your organization even created it's own version of the bible where most of the parts that speak of the Holy spirit, Trinity etc and things your leaders don;t agree with have even been completely removed.

But then again, if he desires to find out for himself, it's his choice after all.

HellVictorinho:
Gods are imaginary.
They don't really exist.
They are just like Spiderman, Superman,Hulk,Flash, Batman,etc.
I consider life as the manner in which different species carry out different activities.
The manner in which different species carry out different activities is an absurdity.
Life is an absurdity.
Life has no purpose.
There is no reason for the manner in which different species carry out different activities.
Different species carry out different activities anyhow.

Well, that's a school of thought.
But I believe atheists have their philosophy of life.
How then do you explain your existence, nature, family, etc?

I would rather not derail this topic but interested in your own philosophy?
How do you make sense of life?

budaatum:
I love your thread because it shows mind use.
I love this particular post a lot.

Questions

How do you define religion, and what works about it?

Thanks Buda.
However, I don't have my definition, just the same generic one.

Religion: The belief in a deity or deities and the activities that accompany such belief.

Of course the bible defines true religion as the acts of charity to orphans and widows. James 1;27

My question to you is, does faifh work?

If you believe faith works then you should believe that if one places their faith in any religion, it just may work for them.

Kobojunkie:
Please try to follow along!

Let's say there are 46 commandments in total. Now, these 46 commandments were given to you by the person of Jesus Christ, the Word of God Himself. And of the 46 commandments, none is a commandment instructing you to gather with other believers or fellowship with other believers. So, when you refuse to follow men in their "gathering unto God", do you do so in disobedience of any of the commandments given you by Jesus Christ? The obvious answer to that is NO!

Now, one of the 46 commandments given by Jesus Christ instructs you against adding or removing from His teachings/commandments. So when men take it upon themselves to suggest that Jesus Christ commands their many "gathering unto God", in an attempt to add their lie to the teachings of Jesus Christ, it is done in direct disobedience to the very teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ.

Now, since we are clear at this point that your gatherings are not commanded of you by Jesus Christ i.e. God. What you should ask is what your church leadership model and the lot have to do with God if none of what they do was commanded them of Jesus Christ/God Himself, and that question you ought to direct at your so-called church leaders.

Sin is disobedience. In the case of those who believe in Jesus Christ(the New Covenant), Sin involves rejecting/going against the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ - His teachings define for us what sin is. And according to Jesus Christ's own teaching, the only way to overcome sin is to instead accept(trust) and obey His commandments. That is the only way to transition from being a slave to sin, to become instead a Child of God.

So, I am not sure why you feel your "gathering unto God" is of God when God Himself never said so. Rather than continuing to believe what you are told to by men through their many doctrines and tradition(lies), why not instead invest your time and effort into actually learning what Jesus Christ wants of you and putting that into action instead.

I can understand your position both not to gather in fellowship and also to focus strictly on the 4 gospels.

Going to churches especially in Nigeria, one can easily get discouraged at the way most pastors twist the bible to the own interest using the old testament and epistles of the apostles especially if you're one who is given to study yourself.

I've visited several churches in my search of the oneness of the body of Christ in the several denominations, Winners inclusive and I can tell you it is the same virtually everywhere.

But the bible does not speak against being part of gatherings, in fact observing the life of Christ, we can agree that he himself assembled in such gatherings. In fact his ministry involved preaching to large gatherings.
Even upon his resurrection he still commanded his disciples to assemble together in Galilee to wait for him.

We do not know much of his early life as this was not documented but his ministry did not even start until he had gathered disciples to himself.
The place of discipleship would be inadequate if such gatherings do not exist.

My advice is to pray for divine direction about a gathering that would be suitable for you.

MaxInDHouse:
God called Moses Sir so Moses was right to have asked for back up.


Jesus wasn't talking about the signs for his listeners to believe his teachings Sir, rather he's talking about the signs God promised Israelites that they will see when the Messiah is around! Matthew 11:2-5


Please remind me the name of that disciple who didn't even believe in the resurrection of Jesus despite all what Jesus taught them?
So our faith surpasses that of Thomas Sir!

Smh

iwaeda:
It seems EKEDC has major issue for the past 4 days, there has been no light in my area.

Dear Customer,
We are still awaiting TCN, one of the other partners in the electricity delivery supply chain to complete their ongoning maintenance and allocate energy to Eko Disco.
*From* all indications it is unlikely they will be able to restore tonight.

Thanks for your understanding as they make every frantic effort to restore asap.

EKEDC IBEJU .

It seems to be rotated. Lately there's been major improvement here in Lagos, Okota area where I reside.

debaj10:
most billionaires today were introverts, growing up.
most geniuses are introverts.
most novelists, same.
ur problem isn't being an introvert; it's lacking purpose.
find it and u will h8 disturbance!
also, stop being a narcissist-
laugh at urself and make others laugh.
(starting with ur family and ur only friend, lol).
cos whatever ur traits, only u can make u happy.

Apparently any intelligent person can deduce from this post that he's the lonely type of introvert.

He clearly wishes to change that.

Finding purpose is an abstract solution. A larger demographic of the world is still trying to figure out their purpose. I'm pretty sure that includes you.

Why not offer him a more practical and realistic solution.

Righteousness2:
Pleasw Who is holding u from giving him your "Pratical advice"?

We are quite interested in your practical advice.

I wish to meet you in person.

It's easy to quote scriptures and judge people online. But when it comes to your personal life, thats what actually shows you're a Christian or not.

MaxInDHouse:
The bolded shows you don't understand what the Bible means by the phrase "righteousness of God" Romans 10:2-3
Of course all the peoples on the planet do practice one form of righteousness or the other but the only people God called his own people are those living by his own standards. My friend that's where you missed it! Exodus 19:5-6



@ John 3:16 God's word made it clear that all those who failed to believe in Jesus will perish but instead of you to learn from the true Christians (JWs) you keep confusing yourself with what misinformed churchgoers are saying.
Well let me tell you that God's standard totally differs from the standard of the world, you must humble yourself to learn it not just presume how it should be.
So when you're ready to know why only Christian will live forever in PARADISE i'll TEACH you! John 17:3


This is why you continue to mix everything up as if you must set standard for God, don't worry you will soon become an atheist!
God has purpose why he performs miraculous signs but you're insisting He must prove himself to you whereas he already has more than enough worshipers WITNESSES globally.
Churchgoers will tell you they're worshiping the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. They want that God to perform wonders in their favour but what was the FAITH of these three Hebrews back then? Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego never expected God to rescue them from trouble, they knew he can but whether he chooses to or not their FAITH in Him remains unshakable!
Daniel 3:16-18
You are now expecting that same God to use you in healing sick yet you don't even know the difference between His righteousness and that of the world! Matthew 16:4, 12:39
JEHOVAH doesn't need people like you who feels He must show them favour before they worship him, he cherishes faithful people who knew that there must be a distinction between worshipers of God and unbelievers and are fervently paying rapt attention to know such difference! John 20:29

May you have PEACE!

Are you better than Moses? Who demanded that God shows him signs before people can believe him?
Which God constantly obliged to?

Or are you better than Jesus who himself said people will not believe unless they see signs?

Yes, faith is best when it does not wait for signs but neither God nor Jesus deprived people of signs when they demanded for it. Except fir the Pharisees.

Even his own disciple Thomas asked for signs and he showed him.

oluwaseyi0:
Mumu profesy

If he died, he professed it, if he didn't it was averted with prayers

You people that can't even foresee that your churches will all be locked down last year
And people who attempt to attend will be arrested without you or your God bend able to do anything about it

Prophets of doom.
All they see is death and hell fire when Christ preached life and life abundantly.

Sensational pastors. He's hoping to gain fame through Davido. How shameless.

HellVictorinho:
May the Gods people create in their heads leave their heads and find a house in Lagos to live so that LordReed and HellVictorinho will ask them if they like their creators.
In Jesus Name,
Amen.
Wetin remain??

I'm interested in your philosophy of life.

Do you believe there's God? If not, what's your belief?

MaxInDHouse:
There are two keys to salvation for someone who doesn't know anything about God!
Righteousness and Meekness! Zephaniah 2:2-3

Meekness: While going from place to place you will come in contact with someone somewhere who knows better than you, humility will help you to admit this and learn from those who know more than you, then Meekness will help you to remain OBEDIENT to those who taught you! Hebrews 13:7

Righteousness: You won't give God conditions nor think of setting standards for God {Romans 10:2-3} you will search for those practicing the righteousness of God {Psalms 1:1-3} and associate with them for more enlightenment {Proverbs 2:1-5 compare to Hebrews 10:24-25}

Whoever missed this two vital keys will only continue to argue with everyone there will be nobody to associate with as brethren, of course the next thing is to conclude there's no group of worshipers practicing pure worship, so what is the proof of God's existence if there's no organized people worshiping Him?

Actually the 2 keys to salvation for an unbeliever according to the Bible are Faith and Humility (Meekness).

Actually it is just Faith.
But also Humility because God resists the proud.

Righteoness is imputed on one who has faith (believes God) such as Abraham. Galatians 3:6, 15:6

Your claim that any group of worshippers who practise righteousness is a proof of God's existence is faulty simply on the basis that even non Christians practise Righteousness. In fact Islam exalts righteousness more than the Christianity of our generation does.

Confucianism, Buddhism and even some of our local traditional religions exalt righteousness more than what we see in Christianity today.

As much as I would like to believe that all religions that practise righteousness are godly, we both know that Christianity doesn't preach that.

As long as their righteousness is without faith in Jesus Christ, they are hellbound.
Here in lies the fault in your preaching of JW as a body that practises righteousness.

The only confirmation and attestation to God's existence both scripturally and according to human reasoning is the Power of the Holyspirit that confirms every word of the scriptures.

Unfortunately your denomination/organisation believes the purpose of the Holyspirit was simply to produce the Bible and now the Holy spirit does not perform anything else.

You be the judge, what then separates you from every other religion when you do not belueve nor manifest the powers of the Holyspirit as expressed in the Bible.

hoopernikao:

Like I said, if what you call judging you is about you not reading the scripture properly, so be it. I have no qualms with such judgment.

A Bible text read out of context or misinterpreted wield more destructive power to the hearer than a fall from Everest. It kills, destroys, divides, and its spread is like widefire that can consume a city in a twinkle.

So, if I judge you on giving false Interpretation, I am only fulfilling the scriptures which is very loud on identifying, rejecting and exposing false and errorneous teaching.

---

The truth is for you, I believe they aren't deliberate but an issue of experience and improper reading, if not I would have handle this differently for you. But I know you aren't doing this to deceive men but just an issue of not having a proper context. Hence I admonish you to calm down and read again. I say again, you haven't read the scriptures properly and also in bringing the whole book into a systematic unveiling of God's wisdom. You must get this.

So, take the "judgment" and correct yourself Bro. You know I love you and want to see you seeing the scriptures as they are. It's the greatest thing to see in you.

But the interpretation I'm getting wrong here is still the work of the Holy spirit.
How can I believe I'm wrong when you've not been a witness to the Power of the Holyspirit?

You claim Paul was not referring to signs and miracles, what of Jesus Christ?

soulpeppersoup:
Explain to me what you mean by righteousness and prosperity as preached by winners and the ones you see as a model.

Because I don't actually get it.

Righteousness simply put is doing what is right.

Prosperity gospel is simply preaching the gospel for gain. 1 Timothy 6 expounds more on this.

soulpeppersoup:
Have you been to winners before? Some of you will be talking rubbish without taking a step to verify them.

I've been to Ota headqiarters atleast twice sir and visited various other parishes/centres too.
The message is centered on prosperity, obedience in serving God and of course evangelism.

I simply let you know that whenever prosperity is exalted over righteousness, prosperity by any means always wins.

Which is why the Bible categorically says that the Love of money is the root of all evil.
That it is impossible to serve two masters, you'll either choose God or Mammon (prosperity).

Likewise Jesus told his disciples that it is impossible for a rich man to make heaven just like a cattle making it into the eye of a needle. Though he added that but with God anything is possible.

I'm letting you know basically that you that while the bible is not against prosperity, 3 John:1:2.
When you prioritize prosperity over righteousness, the love of money often takes over.

Akwamkpuruamu:
The universities he built, are those working there not on payroll?

You have to wonder what they're teaching cos even the graduates Covenant is churning out are part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Winners preaches prosperity without preaching much of righteousness.
When you exalt prosperity over virtues of righteousness, you can be sure that your followers will do anything to gain that prosperity even committing sins that unbelievers won't.

The irony with Christianity is that a unbeliever believes he is committing sin when we steals but a Grace and Prosperity preaches have taught their followers that even if they steal, it is not a sin because Christ has paid for all their sins.

At the end of the day, Christians who should be part of the solution have become more of the problem.

Interestingly you can't blame this pastors because there are Bible verses that support this claim, mostly John and Paul's epistles.

If only Christianity had continued the way the missionaries introduced it to Nigeria, clearly, the Nigeria we have today would be the most prosperous nation in the would but unfortunately the reverse is the case.

Both Christians and Muslims are robbing the Nations and dry and the masses are to suffer for it. Although directly or indirectly the elites are also suffering from this insecure and undder-developrd country they've created.

hoopernikao:
Invisible answers?
Did you write the answers with UV pen or infrared keyboard?

I know you're just being evasive as always but let me indulge you yet again.

I quoted where Jesus responded to John's disciples that they could all see the signs viz healing the sick, blind seeing, etc.

I quoted where Paul said he did not come speaking just words but by display of the Power of the Spirit.

Why you find it difficult to share one single testimony of healing here is simply a confirmation of my stand that Christianity is just another religion. Apparently you've spent time learning the word. I would expect you to have countless testimonies of how God has healed the sick as you shared the word with them.
Or how souls have been saved on this platform through your threads.

But rather you've employed every evasive tactic in the book.
You accuse me of Strawman here where as it's you who has been doing that all along.

Just share 1 testimony, is that not what it means to be witnesses of Christ?

budaatum:
Ihedinobi3 is far too mature to say what I am about to say here, but, really? And after all the huffing and puffing. Lol!

Respectfully.

Lol I do respect everyone's choices though.
After all he's made his points and stand on the topic known. Whether or not I agree with them is my choice.

hoopernikao:
Strawmann again?
Can you point to the place I judged you here else remove yourself from playing sentiment card.

If what you call judgment is due to the fact that I pointed to you that you haven't read the scriptures properly, then please take that "judgment" to heart. It will save both you and those who hear or take your instructions.

I didn't do anything more than what Jesus did. Jesus must be judgemental when he told the pharisee that "they haven't read the scriptures". Likewise don't forget when he called his disciples "fools and slow of heart".
Paul must be too, when he corrected his disciples in Galatia.

If this is what you call judgment, Bro, please take the judgement and correct your ways.

---

Your reading the scriptures many times is not the same as reading properly. I have told you this severally. I am not here to doubt whether you have read the scriptures before, in fact I know you are going by your exposure to verses and bible texts. But i am here to tell you you haven't read it properly and that is based on your conclusion about the scriptures.


You are the one who judged yourself due to that. Jesus told Nicodemus "are you a teacher of the law, (bible) and know not these things?". Hence it's not strange to be teaching the Bible and still lack its knowledge. So whether you have taught before or handle Bible school is not the focus here but your knowledge of what you teach and explain is what is my concerns. They aren't what the scriptures taught.


Bro, the truth is you aren't paying attention to the essence, focus, explanation, themes, progressiveness, events, actions, inactions and structural thoughts of the scriptures. Get this well and stop seeing it as an abuse.

Hence, you must channel this frustration to strengthen yourself and pick the Bible again for proper reading this time. Channel this frustration to get persuaded by the word of God. In this all doubt and inconsistency will be resolved.

Don't you think and desire so?

Lol you make it too easy but then again I've resolved to make our discussions as civil as possible.

Are you Jesus who knows the hearts of men?

And Paul corrected the Galatians for going against his teachings when after their conversion through the hearing of faith they still subjected themselves to circumcision and other demands of the Law.

How do you compare your case here?.
You're the type that will defend your anger quoting Jesus got angry and chased people out of the temple for turning his father's house to den of thieves.

You simply assumed and concluded that I hadn't read the Bible in whole and was only picking verses haphazardly.

PS: The very fact that you're a Christian and religious makes you judgmental.
Not your fault. The Bible does teach that whoever doesn't believe in Jesus is condemned already.
Yet it teaches you not to judge. The irony.
That's what religion does anyway.

hoopernikao:
Haphazard Bible learning won't produce anything but puffed display of knowledge, more confusion which end up not edifying you or me.

You must start learning Bible in systematic order and structure now. It is clear from most of your discussions that the questions and challenges you have on and from the scriptures are result of not reading scriptures the way it should be read, likewise not paying attention to the systematic way the writer presented their writings and the progressive thoughts of the whole scriptures when read together. These show in mostly here in all your "inconsistent scriptures".

---

A good way you can start is:
Start reading and asking questions on Bible concepts that are well mentioned in the scriptures.

This will help you understand the bigger picture and how they are broken down to other concepts and teachings. Also allow a relearning by going to reread things again especially when someone point you to it. You don't have to accept it of course, but the act of reading it again is a good study culture and also help you see things again either in new light or in consistent with what you believe already.

Lastly, Dont drop verses like song chorus, original Bible were not presented in verses, they were written together as each book.
They are to be read together (as individual book and by extension the whole books) without stopping in between so as to have the full understand of the discuss.

I have read the Bible twice.

I've read the synoptic gospels even more.

I have taught the Bible in foundational classes.

I have unlearned and relearned doctrines.

I have considered everything else as rubbish except the word of God and the pursuit of the nature and likeness of Christ. Of course not to the extent of Paul.

But what I found at the end of it is just another religion.

The efficacy of the word is in the power of the Spirit. If that power is missing, it is but another religion.

Does religion work? I'd say yes.
Whatever one has faith in would certainly work for them.
Which is why there still exists myriads of religions even till date.

But I choose not to be religious cos that was what Jesus came to set the Israelites and by extension the world free from.

Why did I share this?
You're presumptious like most judgmental Christians are. I can't blame you though, you've been taught your religion is the only way and truth and every other religion is hellbound.
Unfortunately, you've also been taught the many powers of the Spirit which you are unable to manifest and substantiate. How frustrating.

hoopernikao:
1. I asked you a question you haven't answer, do you need healing or you supervise a sick ward?

2. You can also help me share a scripture where Jesus shared his experience on healing the sick or Paul sharing his, since you want a sharing formula
You so much focus on what is not to miss what is.

The very post you quoted answers your question.

Righteousness2:
Quit Deceiving your Soul!
Many have done dt and departed and right now they are begging for the Privilege you have now.
Receive the truth and make Amends!
Except you Repent! You will likewise Perish!

It is the joy of God and Jesus that no soul perishes.

How then do you derive so much joy in wishing others to perish?

Is it not because you have no likeness of Christ and you're simply doing the works of your father, the devil?

After all it is the devil who derives so much joy in wishing man perishes.

You really need to learn of Christ and his apostles to know your present disposition is nothing like Christ.

iampeterben:
Gbam! We move
By December knack us N300 per litre, make we begin buy fuel like dem dey buy am for Ghana and Benin Republic, people we are supplying the products.

APC! CHANGE!!!

You nailed it.
We all know it will eventually come to this.
Even Pounds might still hit 1000naira to a pound. And over 500naira to a dollar.

Our govt don't see anything wrong in all these increments cos most of them get fuel allowance. Besides they believe other countries are paying more.

They do not factor in the dynamics between such countries and Nigeria.

Ghana for example has ensured that there's stable electricity which means you don't have to worry about fuel price for generators except you're a car owner. Also Ghana is not among OPEC.

Dubai and other countries which our govt likewise compare Nigeria to have stable electricity and alternative means of transport where the masses don't feel the impact of the fuel price.

Unlike Nigeria, where nothing works.
Only few locations have stable electricity.
The transport system is so bad that if you're not careful you'll spend more fuel driving through traffic.

Btruth:
Trust God’s Saving And Keeping Power

Fri, 12 Mar 2021

‘Kept by the power of God through faith for salvation.’ 1 Peter 1:5

If our salvation is assured when we place our trust in Christ, might not some people take advantage of this assurance? Yes, they might—for a time. But as grace goes deep, and as God’s love and kindness sink in, they change. Grace fosters obedience. ‘The grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.’ (Titus 2:11–12 NIV)

God’s grace does more than comfort you in your troubles; it convicts you in your disobedience. Let it convict you. If you ever catch yourself thinking, ‘I can do whatever I want because God will forgive me,’ then grace isn’t happening to you. Selfishness, perhaps. Arrogance, for sure. But grace? No.

Grace creates a resolve to do good, not permission to do bad. And one more thought. Look to Christ for your beginning and ending. He’s Alpha and Omega. He will hold you, and He will hold on to the ones you love. Do you have a prodigal son or daughter? Do you long for your spouse to come to God? Do you have a friend whose faith has grown cold? God wants them back more than you do.

Keep praying, and don’t give up. The truth is, we don’t always know if someone has trusted God’s grace. A person may have feigned belief but not meant it. It’s not ours to know. But we do know this: where there is genuine conversion, grace never stops working. So today, trust God’s saving and keeping power.

Well said.

Ihedinobi3:
Very well.

To be clear, I don't believe that you are telling the truth at all here.

I don't believe that it is possible to actually have a meaningful conversation over this matter with you. I have tried to open up that possibility several times by asking you to consider why you hold the position that you do. But you don't want to discuss your reason.

Your words here prove again to me that you don't believe that it is possible that the Bible is just difficult to understand. You are absolutely certain that it is inconsistent. So I cannot give you the benefit of the doubt although I would have preferred to.

Nonetheless, I will attempt to give an answer to your post including an address of your examples. I don't promise the possibility of a discussion following that because I am not persuaded that it will be useful or meaningful.

1. "Just when you think you understand anything about the Bible, you'll find another verse that proves otherwise."
To begin, the fact that something appears to be a contradiction does not mean that it is. For example, in physics, there is both buoyancy and gravity. Although those are opposing influences, their existence does not mean that physics contradicts itself. Likewise, if there are seemingly opposing ideas in the Bible, it does not necessarily mean that the Bible opposes itself.

The common sense thing here is that the fair way to deal with something whose credentials are not yet tested is to give it the benefit of the doubt. In science, we make a hypothesis and we test the hypothesis to see if it is actually true. The same is how we deal with anything else. Unless we have a reason to doubt that something is not what it is said to be, we are wise to treat it with some allowance that it is what it is said to be. That is what is called "giving the benefit of the doubt."

This is how we must treat the Bible too. It is a body of knowledge. It claims to be the very Word of God. And if that isn't enough to warn us that it would take at least a bit of work for us to understand, then it also does tell us itself unequivocally that it is difficult to understand. As such, what makes sense is that we do things its way in the foregoing to see if it will work out as it promises.

For example, if the Bible tells us that we must believe the Gospel in order to have the Holy Spirit so that we receive the ability to understand the things that the Bible teaches and that we should seek out and submit to gifted and prepared pastor-teachers in order to learn what the Bible teaches, then the right way to prove whether the Bible is to be trusted is to actually do these things. If they don't work, then we can say that the Bible is not reliable. If they do, then we can say that it is. But to say that the Bible is not reliable just because we don't understand what it says when we are not willing to do things the way that it says we should do them to understand it is grossly foolish.

2. "God is one and there's no one else beside him."
I'm not sure what verse proves otherwise here. But since you mentioned the Trinity later, the argument seems to be the common objection that one finds everywhere: Either there is one God or there are three gods; the Bible can't teach both that God is one and that there are three Persons who are God.

The funny thing about this objection is that no one is confused that there is only one thing that is called "human." That is, although you could say that there are so many billion human beings, one never thinks of "human" as being more than one thing. "Human" is the nature of a thing. If a given thing possesses certain attributes, we call it human. If it doesn't, we don't. Likewise, there is only one thing that is defined as "dog." That thing is distinct in spite of how many of its kind exists and how many forms it takes. We know, for example, that a dog is not a cat no matter how similar we may think that they are.

"God" is a name that defines a certain type of nature. There is only one thing like that. There is nothing else that is God. There is only one such thing. That there are three Persons who possess that nature is not a contradiction. It is only a disclosure. "Trinity" is just a word that describes the uniqueness of this particular "thing." All the Persons who possess this nature are in perfect harmony in all things. They think the same way, exist the same way, and act in exact agreement with each other. They are never at odds with each other. This is the whole point of pointing out the oneness of God. If there is only one person that is God, then there would be no reason to make a point of the oneness of God. It should be perfectly obvious in itself.

3. "There are 3 that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the word and the Spirit and all three are one."
1 John 5:7 is not part of the Bible.

That does nothing to the truth of the Trinity, however, since the whole Bible bears witness to it anyway.

4. "Faith is the most important thing."
I don't know what you are talking about. 1 Corinthians 13:13 says that love is greater even than faith. I know no part of the Bible that counters this in any way.

5. "Works are the most important."
I don't know what you mean here either. James teaches that works prove the existence of faith. It is impossible to say that we believe if we don't do the things that come with faith. Abraham sacrificed Isaac because he believed God when He told him that Isaac would be the one through whom he would be given the descendants that he was promised. Without faith, we can't do the works that God calls us to do. I'm not sure then that I see how works are the most important. Godly works are just the result of godly faith.

6. "Love is the most important."
Obviously.

7. "Tithing is for Jews. For a Christian, giving is as he cheerfully wills."
Tithing applies to the Jews under the Law of Moses, yes. For Christians, we are responsible to support one another and our pastor-teachers according to our ability and also to be kind to unbelievers. We ought to discharge these responsibilities joyfully too, not grudgingly. Besides this, I don't know what it is your complaint here is about.

8. "Jesus is God."
He is. What is the contradictory thing about that?

9. "Every Christian should speak in tongues."
I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches this.

10. "Once saved is forever saved."
I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches this.

11. "Grace abolishes the Law."
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Grace is the satisfaction of the demands of the Law on behalf of the condemned.

12. "Grace is without works/Grace is with works."
I don't know what you mean to say here. But if someone is doing you a favor, then you certainly aren't doing anything to merit it. Still, if someone has done you a favor, it tends to make you able to take advantage of something in some way.

We have not earned our forgiveness from God. We have been given it freely. Now that we are forgiven however, we are finally free to actually start walking with God as His children, friends, and servants.

13. "There is sin in heaven."
I don't know what you're talking about.

Thanks for sharing.
I'll respect your choice not to discuss further.

Righteousness2:
Sometime ago, here on this platform! I read where a brother said he sees his late dad almost all the time in his dream Weeping and Crying!without saying anything to him.
I asked him, did your father Die in JESUS?
His father did not.

You may not appreciate the Privilege to hear the Gospel of JESUS Christ and the opportunity to Repent until you Drop Dead without JESUS! Then will you Fully Understand that you messed yourself by yourself. You will beg and cry for a second Chance! You will wish to turn back the clock but then it will be Late.

Wisdom is Profitable to Direct!

As predictable as always.
Your only message on NL is hell fire.

I wonder if you even read the Bible or simply preach what your church taught you to preach.

Did Jesus preach hell fire to the Samaritan woman by the well? Even though he knew she was sleeping around with another man who was not her husband?

Did Jesus preach hell fire to the woman that was caught pants down committing adultery?

Did Jesus preach hell fire to the Pharisees and Saducees even as much as he condemned them publicly, woeing them for their religious pride and blindness.

Did Jesus preach hell fire to Pontius Pirate even as he was being condemned to be crucified?

Did Jesus preach hell fire even to the thief and hardened criminal that was taunting him even as they were being crucified?

Even the Apostles did not go around preaching hell fire as much as they were being persecuted.

But I don't blame you, you can only preach what you believe. I blame the person that converted you.

The irony of it all is that since you believe in hell fire so much, you might even just be it's primary candidate while the people you're calling hellbound might just be heavenbound.
No one they say knows tomorrow.

Be less predictable
Read your Bible, pray that you may prophesy and reveal deep mysteries to people about their lives that will confirm you're God-sent just like Jesus and his Apostles did.

Then you can genuinely win souls that love God, not hell-fearing religious slaves.
Have a nice day.