₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Myer doesn't have any regard for the Bible!
He often refer to it as a book full of contradictions and prefer the Qur'an to the Bible, but now he's calling on believers of the book that is contradictory to come and use the experience gathered from their contradictions to rule others (including those whose book is well arranged and not contradicting like the Bible)

Jehovah's Witnesses, may God bless you guys for locating me!

There you go again, making ignorant conclusions.

I regard the bible as much as I regard the quran.
I simply point out the facts in both.

While the quran has managed to be consistent, the bible has proven to be contradictory.

If you will pull the scales from your religious eyes, you will admit the contradictions too.

But then again, as a wise friend would say, the contradictions are to prove God's sovereignty.

DappaD:
Ok
God's Kingdom is also called “Kingdom of the heavens” because Jehovah God established it in heaven(Daniel 2:44)
From in-depth study of the Bible, it's not all righteous persons who will go to heaven. It is only a select few, the “little flock” of 144,000 anointed Christians.(Luke 12:32, Revelation 7:4-8, 14:1-4)
The idea of everyone going to heaven to just a funny and absurd idea because God made the earth for humans(Psalm 115:16) and that his decision for obedient humans to inhabit the earth will never change. (Psalm 37:29, Isaiah 45:18)

God's Kingdom under the rulership of Jesus and the 144,000, is to rule over the earth to remove all wickedness and make the earth into a paradise it once was before.(Revelation 5:9-10, 21:3-4)
That is what JW's have been preaching all along.

Now you're contradicting AkinwaleJJ one of your JW members who believes God has no interest in earth but only heaven according to your doctrine.

My argument was simply that the world would be a better place if true Christian went into politics unlike the popular misdoctrination that politics is not for Christian's.

According to the Lord's prayer, God's kingdom is to be established on earth as it is in heaven. For that to happen I believe God won't come down to do that but it will be achieved through people.

How then can it be achieved if Chrostians being instructed to shun politics where the power to influence nations lies?

Taking precedence from Jospeh, Daniel, David, Paul etc who dabbled into Politics.

Akube1z:
You should seek for them , because we aren't Righteous in this modern world. Seek God and he will answer you.
We don't have the privileges like those in the bible. But we should pray for God's Mercy and grace to receive all this things. Above all seek the Kingdom and all these shall be added unto you.

Have you or your sister ever been raped just for visiting a friend? (Pardon me for asking such a a gruesome question)
That's what was done to the wife of a Levite (Judges 19:24) and almost done to those men (angels) and Lot's daughters. Genesis 19:3-8

Our generation's immorality is nothing compare to those in the bible. The only difference is that technology makes it spread faster.

So since God's way doesn't change, then still it isn't works of righteousness that determines God's gifts.

Akube1z:
Six Gift/Power You Should Seek from God as a born again Christian. It's a free gift to you .

1) Power to receive Revelation and Visions.

2) Power of the holy spirit.

3) Power to Prophecy.

4) Power to Speak in tongues

5) Power to Heal the Sick

6) Power to Cast out demons in the Name of Jesus.

Should seek or should have?

The disciples in the bible and even those fathers of faith in old testament did not have to seek these power.
They were simply gifted for being chosen by God.

Which is why it's difficult to believe Christians these days, everyone claims to have been saved (chosen) yet without gifts, without power, even the pastors.

Hambivert:
Sparogatively... the good book made us to understand that sin is sin. 'For all have sinned'...

No big one, no small one. All of them carry the same weight of punishment. HELL FIRE!

I regret all of them, the one I regret the most are the ones I may commit in the future.

The spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Anyways, our God is a forgiving father.

Read Proverbs 6:16-19, Mark 3:28-29.
While I want to agree with you, the bible does state this too.

DappaD:
My concern is not about your opinion you have of JW's or whether other churches preach or not. After all preaching simply means declaring a message.
My concern is...

So I'm more concerned in the content not the activity.

Well, you do have a point, a lot of churches rather preach prosperity which is just an aspect of the heavenly kingdom.

But some still preach the heavenly kingdom even though they focus more on prosperity.

MaxInDHouse:
The bolded!

You've judged yourself! Matthew 7:16-18

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Research is now a fruit of the spirit?
I like quoting out the verses you mention because you mislead people with them.

If research is a fruit of the spirit then scientists must be the best Christians.

MaxInDHouse:
I thought you preferred the Qur'an to this book!
So what is your headache when a book you already said is "full of contradictions" now suffer?
You and deceitfulness are like 5 & 6!
You want everyone to believe that the Bible is useless (since it's full of contradictions) yet you want to defend some Churchgoer traditions with the same book!

Am I right to guess this is Maximus reloaded.

DappaD:
Doesn't address my question.

If you paid attention, you'd know I addressed it.

Every church has evangelists who do that work.

I believe more people know of the Catholic church, Redeemed church, Winners church and even White garment churches than Jehovah's witness.

What makes JW popular is simply your extremism. Which is why you have a lot of cases in countries like Russia and others.

Thank God your doctrine doesn't include killing to defend God. You would have been worse than islamic terrorists.

I only enjoy reading your journals because of the research that goes into it. But your doctrines are more Jewish than Christian.

I almost converted to JW but after a few meetings I realized it was more of bondage than liberty. The very difference between Judaism and Christianity.

AkinwaleJJ:
You know i've been following your posts for long and one thing i discovered is how you feel like creating conveniences yet pointing accusing fingers at others for the offence you are committing!

You've been saying JWs are cherry-picking scriptures due to their inability to prophesy and perform miracles (as Jesus commanded those whom he sent out to preach and teach) yet you're dodging from the preaching and teaching saying it belongs only to the Apostles. If so then who do you expect to prophesy and perform miracles today since the Apostles (those Jesus instructed to go preaching, teaching and performing your highly expected miracles are no more?

Perhaps if you had followed the discussion, you would have realized that this your deduction is way off.

achorladey:
In reference to this......You can't make a doctrine out of a personal instruction to an apostle


Like one said....... Because Paul said WOE to himself if he didn't preach, it means WOE to everybody who didn't preach. Interesting point in your last statement up there

Maybe everyone should also be eunuchs since Paul was a eunuch.
The bible has really suffered in their hands.

DappaD:
For now we should focus only on the task/commission Jesus gave to his disciples.
Apart from Jehovah's Witnesses, which other religious groups preach the good news of God's Kingdom extensively?

There you go again, speaking out of ignorance (no offense intended).
Have you ever stepped into any other church besides your JW org?
How many churches have you gone that don't have evangelists?

You simply listen to what your leaders feed you without searching for yourself and end up recycling the same lies.

You can't just focus on the commission without focusing on the whole. With the commission comes healing prophelying, etc.

But since they could neither perform healing nor prophesy, your leaders decided all these gifts have been done away with. Come on, how convenient is that?

chiommy123:
Truth be told every congregation have their own way of 'shuning' members that do not live according to the rules but it should be done in love to bring the person back to christ

Trust me, there's always a verse to back these acts up.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5.
Yet if you observe what the verses dealt with, you'll realise it is niw being used to victimised people.

This is exactly the same crime of the pharisees that made Jesus reject hem and bring a new covenant of love.

Imagine for reporting sexual immorality among members, the leaders decided to shun their own.member. Apparently there's more to the story, there must be other culprits that will be exposed once this case is looked into. Otherwise they wont try to cover it up and shun the whistle blower.

DappaD:
The Bible is that perfect knowledge.
With the Bible complete, there is NO need for prophecy since everything we need to know about the future is recorded in it.
The other miraculous gifts of the spirit—healing, tongues, interpretations served their purpose in the first century.
Then, the Christian congregation was still at infancy, so they needed the miraculous gifts of holy spirit to advance to maturity.

So, the gifts of holy spirit were to become ineffective in the first century, but the qualities to remain amongst the Christians were faith, hope and love.(1Corinthians 13:13)
That's even why apostle Paul wrote to Timothy to drink alcohol to cure his ailments. (1Timothy 5:23)

The most important work Jesus gave to his disciples was preaching and teaching about the good news of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14, 28:19,20; Mark 13:10, Acts 1:8 )
So it is very evident that God's holy spirit is working in that only group carrying out this task—Jehovah's Witnesses.
Jehovah has given some measure of his holy spirit to his people to bear witness concerning the truth and to cultivate fruits of the spirit.(Galatians 5:22-23)


Your pastors and churchgoer friends who would always castigate JW's for incessantly preaching about God's Kingdom are more concerned with powerful works.
Jesus knew that in the last days, that is, our time, people would perform many powerful signs and wonders, even prophesying, casting out demons and healing the sick—and that they would ascribe it to the name of Jesus, but he[Jesus] since it didn't originate with God's holy spirit, would deny them flat by saying “Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!”—Matthew 7:22-23, 24:11,24)

The Bible is that which was perfect that was to come?
Lool did it say perfect knowledge?
Where do you even get these your ideas from?

The answer was right there in the same verse, that which was perfect which was to come is Love not the bible.

And even the Love is yet to be perfect.

AkinwaleJJ:
Going by what Jesus discussed with the mother of James and John @ Matt 20:20-23, he asked both brothers if they're prepared to face the same experience he is about to face, they both responded positively, then Jesus said "surely you will experience the same, but to rule with me is not my own making but that of my father"
What Jesus was about to face is persecution due to his preaching and teaching so James and John can't experience the same if they're not preaching and teaching publicly like Jesus, note that the Sanhedrin strictly warned Jesus' disciples to stop preaching and teaching [Act 4:18, 5:28] they even humiliated them by ordering them to be flogged [Act 5:40]
Surely nobody can make heaven (being part of Jesus' corulers) without public preaching and teaching and at the same time nobody can be recognized as Jesus' disciples without boldly preaching and teaching publicly! Matt 10:33

Those were Apostles not all the disciples sir.
They did not do it because it was a condition for heaven. They did it cos it was the work committed directly into their hands by Jesus himself.
That's why Jesus asked Peter personally and not even the others to Feed his sheep.

You can't make a doctrine out of a personal instruction to an apostle.

DappaD:
From we can draw from Ephesians 4:8,11-12, when Christ ascended to heaven, the holy spirit came upon his disciples and assigned
some of them prophets, some apostles, some evangelizers, some shepherds and some teachers. All of them in one way or another preached about the good news of God's Kingdom and built up the Christian congregation.
There were territories where the good news hadn't been preached yet, so the evanglizers were assigned to preach and teach extensively in those areas and when new disciples were made, the shepherds(the elders) and the teachers took over from there to guide such ones to spiritual maturity.
It's just the usual “Paul planted, Apollos watered” mechanism.—1Corinthians 3:6
That's to show that all of Jesus' disciples are to PREACH and TEACH. (Matthew 28:19,20)
Today, holy spirit no longer appoints Christian men to be prophets because those roles and gifts were done away after the first century. [1Corinthians 13:8]

Lol And the Holyspirit personally told you that he has done away with it?
Who decided that whixh is perfect has come? (1 Corinthians 13:.
Where then is the perfection if you can share?

Or it just sounds more convenient since your leaders could not prophecy or perform any healing. So they gave the verse their own interpretation.

AkinwaleJJ:
It's because you're not interested in the truth!

Evangelist refers to all members of the Christian congregation, you must take part in the evangelizing no matter who you are, Pastors means those taking the lead in each congregation, Prophets are those helping people to understand the prophetic messenges in God's word, Teachers are those teaching within the congregation, Apostles are those whose orders all members of the congregation globally must obey!
Jehovah's Witnesses have all of these in their group but they don't attach the titles to names of those taking the offices.

I agree that every christian should one way or another evangelise by being witnesses. But is it in the bible that those who don't evangelise won't make heaven?

That's the basis of the argument here.

Birdeyeview:
As the topic implies, what really made you popular in secondary School irrespective of what kinda school you attended, private or public?

I happened to be the press club P.R.O which made me a little popular because I get to read the highlight of the previous day out loud at the assembly ground.

Let's hear from you guys

Class clown, Cute with the ladies (even though never dated in sec), Dancer, Rapper and Sports.

DappaD:
Oh wow.
So why is that Jesus' parting words to all his disciples was the commission to always be preaching and teaching about all he commanded them? (Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 1:8 )

Sir, Jehovah God was likened to a cultivator and Jesus likened himself to a vine.—John 15:1
His disciples were to be branches.
Jehovah God(the cultivator) will take away from the vine(Jesus), any branch(any disciple) not “bearing fruit”(preaching the goodnews of God's Kingdom).(John 15:2,8 )
The activity that denotes the bearing of this fruit is the preaching of the goodnews of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14)
Granted, life everlasting will not result from any amount of works because it's a gift given to all Jesus' disciples through the undeserved kindness of God(Romans 6:23) BUT saying that you will not contribute to the preaching work one way or another is just plain arrogance because you must speak to somebody and invite such one to come and partake of this wonderful gift of everlasting life.
Otherwise, when you prove that you have no regard for this gift, Jehovah God, the cultivator, will remove or take away such ones from the vine, which is Jesus Christ, the head of the congregation.(Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18)

So Mr M.yer, if one professes to love Jehovah God and Jesus, he will do ALL he is commanded to do. (John 15:10, 1John 5:3)

Can you explain why the 5 fold ministries were distinguished then? Some Evangelists, Pastors, Prophets, Teachers and Apostles.

Are you operating in all 5 ministries? If not, why do you expect everyone to be evangelists?

elated177:
Satan should know when he has lost and walk away. Satan, the demons and their human servants will always be caught in their own traps, snares and schemes whenever they prepare them for Elated177 and the other saints of YAHVEH ALMIGHTY.

I understand that Christianz believe it's either God or Satan that speaks through people. But I assure you I speak as a man.
I'm not tempting you with the lust of the eyes or lust of the flesh or pride of life, am I?

We're simply engaging in religious discourse and how it correlates with realities of our time.

AkinwaleJJ:
Healing is not fruit of the spirit but gifts which is found in all the religions in the world, there is no religion in the world that doesn't engage in healing one way or the other.
That's why Apostle Paul told the first century Christian that we shouldn't concentrate on gifts but fruit! 1Corint 13:8-10; Galatians 5:22-23

Neither is evangelism. Which is exactly the point rottennaija was stressing.

AkinwaleJJ:
You're just beating about the bush, just try to be specific in your response.
Was Jesus' order to go preaching and teaching restricted to few or all who want to work with/for him? Luke 9:62

If you would calmly follow his argument.
He is simply positing that scripturally not preaching the gospel doesn't deny one of everlasting life. Likewise preaching the gospel doesn't guarantee everlasting life.

If JW truly hold the opinion that every Christian must be an evangelist otherwise won't make heaven, then you must likewise agree that every christian must be a prophet and healer otherwise won't make heaven too.

Because just like the instruction to preach the gospel in Mark 16:17, it also includes healing the sick, taking up serpents and being immune to poison.

DappaD:
Well that's just the will of the true God.
He desires for all sorts of men , whether of noble or humble backgrounds, rich or poor TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH and BE SAVED. 1Timothy 2:4, 2Peter 3:9

Such ones of noble/royal backgrounds may abandon their former way of life of fame, status and recognition if they want to become disciples of Jesus.
So whoever is on the side of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ will listen and obey the commandments set in place! (John 18:37)
There is nothing like trying to repair the damage caused by Satan's world by trying to mix worshiping God and supporting governments that will soon be destroyed.
So my dear sir, you can hold your view if you so wish. But be rest assured that 8.7million men and women around the globe have chosen to be on the side of the truth.
Whoever isn't on the side of Jehovah and Jesus is against them(Matthew 12:30)
There's no two ways about it.

8.7 million members? But JW believes only 144,000 will be saved right?

I hope your founder is among cos he has obviously successfully creating another major division in the body of Christ.

I don't even see JW as a christian body but as a Jewish body. Because you condemn everyone else who is not a member of JW just as the pharisees did.

elated177:
Cat got your tongue?

I've actually been off nairaland all day.

That said, why move the discourse to facebook?

You have anything intelligent to say, I'm all ears.

DappaD:
Lol lol I guess I should take you to school.

Okay. First of all, know that I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.(Isaiah 43:10-12)
Before one can become a JW, he must be ready to put away the old personality with worldly habits, pick up his own torture stake and put on a new personality.
That includes living your life in direct accordance with Bible principles. (Psalm 119:105)
It may also include severing ties with family members and friends who might pose a threat to the service to our God, Jehovah. (Proverbs 13:20, Matthew 10:37, 1Corinthians 15:33)
Just like Peter and the disciples did and were rewarded(Mark 10:28-30)
So as you can see, it is that serious.



I don't know where you got the notion that I'm expecting ‘perfection’ from anybody.




Sir, please, know that I speak as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and not one of your usual churchgoers.
The Bible says that God's Kingdom will be firmly established in the heavens and is going to rule over the earth, that which will put an end to all the worldly governments.(Daniel 2:44)
The destruction and desolation of all the worldly governments as well as the extension of God's Kingdom to the earth will not be by human hands.
That work rests squarely in the hands of the invisible/immortal King, Jesus who was chosen by his God, Jehovah(Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 1:31-33) and the 144,000 corulers who are all immortal in heaven(Revelation 5:9-10)
They are the ones who will bring to nought all earthly governments and extend God's Kingdom to the earth. (Revelation 19:11-15)
It is only when that occurs, that obedient humans can benefit from God's righteous rulership. It is only then when true peace and security will come to be on the earth—death, pain, old age, sickness, hunger, injustice will all be no more. (Psalm 72:7,16, Isaiah 33:24, Revelation 21:1-4)
No human government today can ever achieve any of these, so that's why Jehovah's Witnesses stick to God's original plan and remain neutral in worldly affairs.

Do you know that Paul sought to make Christian's out of the Royal families?
Some in fact converted and he stayed and lived with them too?

So where do you get the idea that Christians and Politics should be separated while it's okay for Christoans to mingle with the world in every other aspect of life.

I can assure you that it is an erroneous view that has kept the impact of true Christian's from being felt.

DappaD:
Sir with all due respect—the reason why the world is in all this mess is because God isn't in charge of this present system and has no dealing with it at all.
The Bible reveals a certain evil angel called Satan the devil who's misleading all the nations and their respective governments. (1John 5:19, Revelation 12:9)


The true disciples of Jesus are identified as Jehovah's Witnesses. — Isaiah 43:10-12, Acts 1:8
So when Jesus made it clear that his disciples “be no part of the world”(John 17:14), it spanned several aspects of life—politics, entertainment and business.
True disciples of Jesus today DO NOT participate competitively in sports.— Galatians 5:26
They carefully examine and filter their entertainment and business they engage in so that such things do not conflict with God's principles.—Ephesians 5:10


Mr Myer, the nation of Israel was chosen by the God of the heavens and the earth—Jehovah.
He came into a covenant/agreement with the nation of Israel and said he was to make them a nation of kings and priests.—Exodus 19:5-6
It was from that geographical location that pure worship was to be observed and practised.
So normally, it was even a grave offense when the nation of Israel made unauthorized alliances with other nations.—Deuteronomy 7:2, Isaiah 30:1-4
After Jesus died, it was evident that God had rejected the nation of Israel and pure worship acceptable to God was to be practised amongst the new disciples of Jesus and wasn't based on geographical location anymore.



Jesus made it very clear on matters such as politics that we(true disciples) must remain politically neutral, just as he was. (John 18:36)
He didn't try to overturn the ruling government in his day even when the Jews wanted to install him as king! (John 6:15)
And that we're to be no part of this system of things ridden by Satan and his demons. (John 17:14&16)


Just to be clear, anyone claiming “Christian” supporting one earthly government or another is only deceiving his or herself because the worship offered by such ones WILL not be acceptable to God.

Did you abandon your family when you decided to follow Christ?

Did you give all you had and donated it to the church and the poor when you decided to follow Christ?

Have you plucked out your eyes and cut off your arms for causing you to sin?

If you did not keep these why do you expect perfection from others?

If Christians are to separate themselves from politics, how then is the Lord's prayer of establishing God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven to be fulfilled?

There's no dichotomy between politics and christianity since there's none in other sectors of life.
Light and Darkness, Good and Evil are simultaneously in every sector and not exclusive to politics.

AkinwaleJJ:
That's the difference between professed Christians and Jesus' disciples!
The later are no part of the world [John 15:19, 17:16] when persecuted they're to flee the territory to where they can continue their activities peacefully [Matt 10:23] they're not expected to fight or struggle for political seats in this world because their Kingdom (government) is not from this source, that's what the founder of this movement (Christianity) said! John 18:36

This right here is the mentality that has kept Nigeria under corruption. Because the few morally upright Christians had been misdoctrinated until recent times.

It's ok to be a part of the world when it is business, entertainment or sports but not politics?

David, Nathaniel, Daniel, Shedrach, Meshach and Abednego, Zerrubabel, were they not into politics?

When Jesus mentioned that his government was a heavenly kingdom, he never mentioned that his disciples should avoid politics. It was simply that the government then was resistive to any one who wasn't one of them.

Of course not all Christians can be trusted with politics too in fact only a very few have proven to be trustworthy.

Righteousness89:
Since the Time of Adam and Eve , there 3 things the devil has Consistently used to Pull down Humans..

1. What to Eat
2. What to Drink
3. How to Gratify the Flesh.

Every Human that fell from Top to bottom in the History of Humanity were Casualties of at least one of these..

If you will Refuse to be a Casualty of any of these, No one will see your back..

Immorality is a tool to Dilute the Greatness of People. There is nothing there.
It ends in Emptiness, Regrets and internal Hurts..

Beware of the Craftiness of the devil..

Meaning it's human nature right?
Even pastors who claim to have the Christ nature are likewise victims.

Only you know the ones you're contending with.

elated177:
Take a walk, dude. You are on a lost mission.

Struck a nerve, did I?

elated177:
Mtcheeeew!


I am done with you. There is nothing more we have to say to each other.

You mean you're a Christian in Nigeria and unaware of islamization agenda (albeit alleged)? Does your place of worship not intercede for Nigeria?

petra1:
Are you a Christian.

Apostate. Tried it, believed blindly too but realized it doesn't work.
I do believe in God, just not in the biblical way anymore.

Every religion tries to figure the Power behind the universe, Christianity is just another one.

Christianity does teach good morals but unfortunately it's filled with a lot of unrealistic promises and is being used to manipulate the people.
I had to liberate myself from the idea of blind faith when the reality was not adding up.
You can say I got tired of defending God and the bible. His word should be practical and not just historical.

BackllGodNaija:
Same here with the bolded fmas I admitted in the Op I didn't even have any idea what to answer to this question when you asked that morning...it was only after I started my prayers that morning that the answers began to come...that's usually the time I get a lot of answers to questions as such, revelations, ideas etc. so it was the norm for me. So it's not me oh but God who gave me this answer to your question.

By the way, kudos to you...you earn my respect for acknowledging this. Take care.

God gave you the answer

Mind asking God for the cure for AIDS and Cancer or even Covid-19?
I think believers and unbelievers would appreciate that.

I'm just saying if you can truly hear God I would expect you to ask important questions not try to disprove an obvious faux pas in the bible.
Should be expecting the answer or God doesn't answer such important questions?