₦airaland Forum

HardMirror:
imagine that guy o. I did not even know he is this ignorant and he wants to be discussing bible

You have made a good and need I say,though-provoking evaluation, it's up to intelligent and wise Christian's to either refute your point or accept the error and apologise.

There are so many other questions that prove the bible unreliable, like they claim the bible was inspired by the Holyspirit, how did they have verbatim words that were written from first point perspectives when no one was actually writing?

Like the conversations between Abraham and Isaac when no one was documenting it.

The conversation between Moses and God. (Though they claim Moses wrote the Pentateuch) yet he wrote about himself dying.

The conversation between David and God. (Though David can be excused to be a writer).

The conversation between Elijah/Elisha and God when they were both not writing these.

The different accounts of the Synoptic gospels. Almost all the disciples were abused as being illiterate. Supposedly only Matthew was a literate, so who was writing every encounter with Jesus Christ and quoting his every word?
Yet they seem to have differing accounts of his birth, his miracles, his resurrection.

Study of the bible proves this and many more.

hupernikao:
1. You still make assumptions for me. I haven't said anything about the Bible chronology.

2. We are checking history now not even Bible per say. You can't hide under the Holyspirit claim and fault historical facts. No Holyspirit will give you such knowledge. The inspiration of the Bible never removed the limitation of man in their time, such as their science, their language, their culture. That's the beauty of the scriptures. And evidence that man was used of God to write

Now
The problem we have most times is we are adamant to change our position on history even when things get clearer. But the truth is changing your position and embracing historical facts, ancient culture and knowledge doesn't negate word of God or the work of the holyghost.

Bible is not a historical or scientific book. It's a theological book. That means I don't need to seek for accuracy on the history of events even though it should be interpreted to align with historical evidences. Also it may fail in some scientific facts because it's not a science book and scientific knowledge start developing years after it's written. Hence I should not be afraid to relook at the scriptures to understand better in the light of the evidences at hand.

E. G. Joshua sun stopped, was a knowledge of their days. That's is what the scientist, the atheist of their days will also write. But we have better light now. It will now be wrong for me to be adamant and say such facts are wrong and keep claiming its the sun that stopped instead of the earth. This is where some failed and I mean both theist and atheist.


So, what is the take here.

I am not giving you my opinion I am giving you what we can see when we bring.

1. Historical evidences
2. Scientific evidences
3. Human accounts

Together, and align with Bible timeline to be able to adjust properly the timing of events. Because the writer weren't fixative on accounting for dates or years, or science, they are fixative on explaining God's plan for humanity. And that should be our focus.

NB
History put Mesopotamia as the earliest civilization even before China

https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/ancient-civilization/272856

And like I said. The flood story was in their legend and also in legend of all ancient civilization.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Great_Flood


So it could never have happened during the rise of ancient China as posited by HardMirror. His error is from reading the chronology in the scriptures as if the writer were writing history and have the most accurate tool to keep dates. Keeping dates is more scientific than art.

Bear in mind. Chronology from Adam to Joseph must have been transmitted orally as the writer and audience never met them but were taught from generation to generation. Preserving such dates accurately, will be an herculean task. Yet this doesn't remove a single fact from God's plan, purpose and inspiration for humanity.

I appreciate your submissions here. I really do.

My question however is, if you will go to this length to gain credence for the bible, why not do the same for other religious books with similar claims?

I mean it's obvious that according to biblical accounts Hardmirror and you have accepted that there are errors in the timing of the flood.

But one of the basic reasons for refuting other religions books is these nconsistencies.

HellVictorinho3:
My reason is that some people deserve to be attacked in as many ways as possible!




I created the thread to state my mind!!!!




Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, judging by your moniker, you really have no choice but to be violent.

Whoever offended you on here, why not name them here and iron out your issues?

Cos just like me, I'm sure they just see through your schemes.
But if indeed it's not schemes, then you should prove it.

HellVictorinho3:
It will be so stupid of you not to ask why rich people finance violence everyday!!!!!!!




They do it because they have enemies!!!!!




You will still understand!!!!!!!!

There are several reasons;

1. Some like you rightly said, because they have enemies.

2. Some because violence is business- money and power for them.

So I'm interested in your own reason.

Modified: Just realised you created a thread for this. Why?

HellVictorinho3:
Just as some atheists stupidly believe certain things ...... it's not enough to say I don't have to respond..... it's a matter of 'who has enough money to spend on assassins or robbers or rapists or lawyers or judges or whatever element of destruction towards the destruction of things'



Honestly,my ambition is to make money towards financing violence in certain places......we shall see what is certain.

Why is financing violence your ambition?
Perhaps this is why you're broke.lol

HellVictorinho3:
You don't know why I requested for help..... you see it as a scheme .... is this justifiable?



As for those with baseless allegations against me.
.., it's because I don't have money to sue them...... I want to see which useless law states that anyone that requested for help should be treated as if those bastards have the right to treat the person the way they do.

Forget all the baseless accusations.
As long as you do not have a disability, you should not make begging a habit.

Anyone can occasionally run broke and beg once in a while but to make it a habit is where the issue is.

Try not to be too proud to find a decent living. And if you can find someone on NL to show you the ropes, all the better.
From your posts you sound quite intelligent and should not have to resort to this.

hupernikao:
Well, I ask questions because I don't like assumptions. And always know this.

1. I also want to be sure not to assume people's thoughts. I want to be sure he is referring to the Bible and not assumptions.

2. I want to be able to reread from the Bible, the very passage or verse or story or events that is being focused on or discussed.

So, I need to know his text.

But on the timing of the flood, I have put it in my latest response to you.

No one can ascertain the timing. If it was taught as a legend in the ancient world of Mesopotamia, which is the cradle of civilization. Then we must be assured that the event, if it occurred, must have been in period when man knows nothing about writings but communicate orally. Hence the timing will always be disputed as the very events itself.

But using the scale of human populating the earth as at the time of the ancient east culture, we can arguably extrapolate that if such event truly happened before their time, not more than 1000 Souls worldwide would have experienced it.

Now ponder on how such events can be accurately preserved till man's civilization. The reason it will be on argument table till ages.

You have a point. But then it's your own opinion.
Like I earlier said, this timing was calculated and validated by Theologians who dedicated their lives to the study of the bible. Some even supposedly though the guidance and under the tutelage of the Holyspirit.

If I may ask, how did you come about this notion that the biblical chronology is wrong and not to be taken seriously?
Was it though a website or did the Holyspirit guide you into this your truth?

What is their plan?

1. Are they going to attack and kill students and teachers who sing the national anthem?

2. Is this meant to make FG release Kanu without court procedures? Cos obviously that's not happening?

3. When will IPOB and Easterners realise that killing fellow igbos is a blessing to the Northerners and FG and a loss to them?
After all the killings and bombings in the east last year,has Kanu been released?

Mercury12:
What is the name of the India company?

Wisdom.

GraphicsMaster1:
We interact daily with the God of the Bible. in ways we can't interact with sango and Zeus.

And my grandparents willing accepted Christ.

Also. The Bible promoting it's monopoly is natural if you really think about it.

I admire your conviction. And on that note,I will not try to argue further.

But if I may suggest.... try creating a thread that shows and proves your direct relationship with God.
It just might help more than those whose only mechanism is to scare people with heaven and hell, let me not mention names.lol

SisterFire:
...people are revolting with time thieves will be called thieves...
Onyeoshi azu

If I may ask,where do dreams come from?
How do you differentiate your dreams since some may be about the future and some are just products of your present state of mind

HellVictorinho3:
Why didn't you answer me?

It's in your best interest that I did not reply you. But now you have asked for my reason.

1. Begging should not be a habit.
As someone who is an adult, you should find some thing you can do and find a job.
I was going to give you some thing until I realised you have made begging on NL a regular habit.

2. If your present job isn't paying you well, find one that will or find multiple streams of income.

3. It's makes an intelligent person like you look bad when you beg religious people for aids.

I am a giver naturally but not one to be exploited.
I just think you've turned NL to a ground for easy money through begging.

Like I said, It's in your best interest that i don't reply you. So, next time some one ignores you begging them for money, just take it as a cue and let them be. Those that will fall for your scheme will fall. Others who know better will obviously not fall.

Dtruthspeaker:
You have spoken Truly. (See, Truth in Action. If it is True, it is True) and the things you have laid are True.

But, in all of what you have laid, you would see that The Truth is still beyond these facts and it needs to be raised up.

Like the ground under our feet has been consistent, therefore, the question is who raised superstitions for clearly superstitions are clearly not Truths?

Truth is Everlasting and Everyone comes to meet it proving The Truths in the Bible "Gods Words are Everlasting" Psalm 119:89.

Hence, Truth is All God has Said and What He has wrought.

Anything not standing on this will and must Fall!

How do you know what God said?

You simply accepted the words of the bible as truth, just like the Jew accepts the words of the Talmud as truth. Just as the Muslim accepts the words of the Quran as truth. Just as out traditionalists accept the words of their priests as truth.

There are so many errors that were proven untrue in the bible which was why early the early Christian church persecuted and even killed scientists. (Pls Google is your friend).

There are so many truths you and your pastor have prophesied but did not come true, Covid being a more recent case that humbled Christians.

Now don't get me wrong. I respect every form of belief that makes anyone become a better person.
My grouse with Christianity, Islam and Judaism is the monopoly they brought into religion.

So before you adjudge any information as true, what research have you done or what revelation have you had to validate your assertion?

hupernikao:
And on one side you may be able to help him answer what he is cant provide answer to since. This will help him see his wrong assumptions and errors.

Which is older, the ancient Mesopotamia or ancient China?

His argument, not mine. But Google is your best friend.
Ancient Mesopotamia supposedly dates back to 14000 BC. Ancient China also supposedly dates back to 11000 BC.

Your point being?

hupernikao:
Well you never addressed my points. But I will still treat your thoughts as separate.

Which of the chronology is he basing his assumption on. That will help us streamline his error.

Your penchant for stalling is legendary.
You understand very well the chronology he based it on. It's all over the bible.
Theologians who have dedicated their lives to studying the bible agree on it.
You can as well google it.

But if you will be so kind enough to share your own assumption or thoughts as to the timing of the said flood.

hupernikao:
..

What a fallacious conclusion.

We say, calm down and learn Bible, you argue. We say read am properly yourself, you argue. See yourself now.

A very poor knowledge of what you criticized. You are all wrong in context, explanation, in language, understanding and even ability to read well.


Bible wasn't teaching flood story, such story were in existence even before Moses was born. The ancient world had it. You took time to be estimating flood period but failed to do study on where and how such story began. That is laziness.

The writer of that portion of the Bible was a prophet and was using the flood story to teach God's plan for humanity. He never claimed to be the author of the story, but he was the mouth piece for the revelation taught using the same story.


It will then become, an issue of unseriousness, for one to read the word of a prophet of God and start comparing it to science. Such has not only lost his simple education, he has lost his ability to reason things the right way.

He based his calculations on biblical chronology.
Why does the bible give chronologies if according to you they're not meant to be taken seriously?

HardMirror:
Do you know we can accurately calculate when the great flood in the bible supposedly happened?

The lifespans in Genesis 11 span from Abram back to the Flood. When we add the years listed in Genesis 11 to Abram’s birth year 2166 B.C., we get about 2472 B.C. for the Flood year. Add the 1,656 years from Genesis 5 to that and we get nearly 4128 B.C.

So the flood happened around 2472 B.C.
https://www.icr.org/article/when-did-noahs-flood-happen


So what is the problem?

The problem is, this was the same period Egypt started to flourish and develop rapidly.

This was the same time the great pyramids of Egypt where built.
The Fourth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (notated Dynasty IV) is characterized as a "golden age" of the Old Kingdom of Egypt. Dynasty IV lasted from c. 2613 to 2494 BC.[1] It was a time of peace and prosperity as well as one during which trade with other countries is documented.


In fact king Khufu who built the largest pyramids became pharaoh of egypt just 200 years after the great flood that was supposed to wipe out every human on earth and only Noah and 7 members of his family are supposed to be the only ones left.

So how come King Khufu had a Nation of people who could build the largest pyramids in just 200 years from just 8 people that survived the flood?

Dont forget that King Khufu also had a predecessor? How come?

We have proof and a list of all the Pharoahs of Egypt even all through the period that this flood should have happened.

From the 4th dynasty to the 6th dynasty

From 2600bc to 2100bc

So when did this flood happen? And how come there are records of nations always existing all through this period that the whole world should have been wiped out?

This is proof the bible is nothing but blatant lies if only we would ask questions.

Interesting thread.
A pot-pourri of diverse philosophies.

Dtruthspeaker:
Yes it is. For to you, you can choose to say that you walk on the sky and the sun is in the ground, that is your own.

But once you have to relate with others, Truth is very clear and beyond dispute. It is the consensus and aggregate of subjectives in which we all agree and have agreed that we walk on ground and the sky is above us.

So, if you prefer lies to be your Truths, that is your personal insanity and alienation.

But beyond and outside you, Truth is Known and Settled and sane men relate on it.

A lot of general superstitions were accepted as truths. Today they've been rejected after being disproved by education and science.

Truth is absolute but that everyone around you accepts an unproven truth just makes it an opinion and not truth.

Yorubas used to believe that Oduduwa created the earth when God gave Orisanla a hen and sand which the hen spread to form the earth.
I'm sure today you realise how ridiculous that sounds.

In the South they believed twins were evil and used to murder them. That was their generally accepted truth until Mary Slessor.

I'm sure you catch my drift.

HustlingHustler:
For me, it is that I can't socialize, meet people or make new friends. It's just me and my laptop day and night.

Humans and insatiabiity.
Those working in offices are wishing they could work from home. While those working from home are wishing they can work from office.

dollynnn:
Swerve!
I do not even have your time

Your DMs must be packing cobwebs otherwise you will understand her even on your struggle level.

slawormiir:
Damnnn niggar


Wetin this one dey feel like

You are on every niggarrrrs hit list....because they just want to smash your ass and move

That is how we niggarrrrs roll

And more over make she dey careful on how she dey use some street and hood words and sentences before them go use old kala light her up...

You just confirmed what she said bro.

She sef know say na smash men dey find.
But the fact remains she's hot and she is onlybspeakimg the reality cos it's going down in her DMs.

dollynnn:
Lol
This one too is trying hard to remain relevant

Why yall hating though?
It's ok for a babe or nigga to say nobody wants them. But it's wrong for a nigga or babe to say they're on everyone's hit list?

I can proudly confirm that she's on my hit list. So she is not seeking attention, she only posted her reality on her IG cos she knows what's going on in her DMs. She didnt do a press release.
Blame your hungry bloggers looking for traffic.

sonmvayina:
He is useless. He is not needed for anything.

God abhors human sacrifice. It is an abomination in his sight.

Asper the bold, when did God ask for it in the old testament?

Whether he is needed or not, I am in no place to determine.
But can you deny that he has worked for those who believe in him?

GraphicsMaster1:
Your Physics textbooks too are written works.

But Physics is science. An observation of how nature works. And how to simulate nature to make inventions.

The bible on the contrary is an alleged historical account of a said Jewish messiah that would save the whole world

The bible is just like our traditional myths and legends.

1. Do you believe there was a Sango who actually spat fire from his mouth and controlled thunder?

2. Do you believe there was actually an Amadioha who actually controlled thunder?

3. Do you believe that the whole world was created when Eledumare gave Orisanla a hen and sand which the hen scratched and spread to form the earth?

4. Or do you believe in the more documented Greek mythology of creation with Titans and Zeus?

5. Perhaps you believe in the Buddhist or Hindus version of creation story.


The truth remains you only chose to believe biblical version of the story because they were very meticulous and made sure to spread by enforcing it along education in Ngeria.
Your parents or grand were forced to accept Christianity or forfeit the benefits of education.

So you cannot possibly place science on the same pedestal as the bible or any other religious book simply because you simply chose to believe the bible.

I do not see anything wrong is having what you have chosen to believe. My only issue is that the bible promotes monopoly by teaching that only the bible is right and anyone who doesnt accept its teaching is condemned and some times should be ostracized.

ABCthings:
Biogenesis can not explain the origin of life or replicate it.

Science can't prove spiritual activities 'cause supernatural activities don't the laws of science.

Witchcraft, Demonic possession, and Miracles.
It quite easy to witness them in Nigeria

Can the Bible prove or replicate it?

hupernikao:
You have finally diverted the discussion.

Go back and read what I quoted. It was never about writings but creation. The world we are in. We need no writing to know this world exists. Comparing it to Harry Potter is just an excuse to discussion.

The world we live in existed long before man knew how to write.
Long before the Bible was canonised.

That you believe that the God of the Bible is the creator of heaven and earth is your choice even though there is no proof.

The point being that the Bible is a literary work just like Harry Potter.
While J.K Rowlings acknowledges her work to be fantasy, we know the Bible just like other religious Holy books claims to be inspired by God even though they all differ in the said inspiration.

hupernikao:
Are we talking about what is written or what was created? Don't divert the analogy. We are talking about creation now. Not what is documented about creation.

The world existed, we are in it, we can hold, work in it. Hence no one doubt it. Harry Potter world is none existent, it was a movie. Or else give details of his world or what he created that we can hold or work with then this analogy can fly.

The argument here is if the earth was created, using Harry Potter, an abstraction with no substance of creation to explain reality is joke taken too far.

I hope you get this now.

The Bible is a written work just like Harry Potter.
You only chose to believe the Bible as real and disbelieve Harry Potter as unreal.

Amotolongbo:
what is this one blabbering bayi

I'm sure I made my self pretty clear and succinct.
That you can't comprehend is your fault.

hupernikao:
No Sir, it was off point.

Harry Potter never created anything, else show me what we can touch, work on that he did, then we can argue his existence.

We are speaking of what is created not what is assumed or abstract.

The analogy didn't address this.

Every art is a creation.

All you know about the bible was created literarily.
Same way with Harry Potter.

I can also write that I created you as your father.
Does it prove in real sense that I am your father? I simply created a writ that I created you.

The bible claims the creation of the earth and heavens to God without any known proof.

Otherwise, praytell, how do you know your biblical God created heaven and earth other than what's written in the bible?

Amotolongbo:
How are my to believe you?

You accused someone of an error and he corrected it. Yet you are not satisfied. Typical daughter of Eve.lol

Apparently you assumed just like the bible said that he is unable to call Jesus Lord because he is anti-Christ. 1 Corithians 12:3

Apparently he has proven just like several others that this is another error in the bible.

HardMirror:
Happy Sunday, please why is there so much debate on God's existence?
This is a debate that has lasted thousands of years... why is it that millions of people are still unable to see something as irrefutable as God?

God is shy. He doesnt like attention unlike uncle Jesusjnr and his cohorts.