₦airaland Forum

AbuUthaymeen:
I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#. . . .AND AS FROM NOW, DO NOT EVER JUST USE ORDINARY ACCUSATIONS ON ME OR JABATA. . say what we do say that is wrong, then quote scholar or hadith to prove us wrong. . . .if u cant do that, just shut up. . .JMP

Please read this link

https://www.nairaland.com/3925812/retort-takfeeri-ilorin

I can see you have a gold fish memory.

AbuUthaymeen:
THEN PROOF ME WRONG

No, the onus lies on you to bring reference for your claim if nut just shut up!

AbuUthaymeen:
I STAND TO BE CORRECTED IN ANYTHING AND SO IS MY ALFA JABATA, ABU IBEJI AND OTHERS. . . . IF YOU WANT TO CORRECT US, QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAYS AND POINT OUT THE PROOFS THE SCHOLAR BRING. . . THATS JUST IT. . CONCERNING BIDA, USING SP0ON AND OTHER ISSUES,. . QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAY ON THOSE MASAIIL. . simple as that. . .tNJ

I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

AbuUthaymeen:
1. Can you please quote that hadith and its number that said blackseed cure all ilness?. . 2. Anybody who read and misunderstood quran or hadith, HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SIN... But when such person is given proof from quran and hadith, and he\she refuses even after the case is clear, THEN THE PERSON IS A KAFIR..

Go to Madrasah, they will teach you.

O, sorry, all the Madrasah are kafir except jabtawiyyah!

You will die as ignoramus if you don't leave takfeeri ideology

AbuUthaymeen:
To return to salafs for explanation is very crucial as long as what they say have proof in quran and hadith. . .SALAFS SAID BIDA IS DIVIDED, SOME SALAF SAID ITS NOT DIVIDED, SALAFS SAID KHAWARIJ ARE NOT KAFIR, SOME OTHER SAID THEY ARE KAFIR, SALAFS SAID USING HIJAB IS NOT WAJIB- SOME OTHER SAID ITS WAJIB, SALAFS SAID U CAN LEAVE FACE,EYES AND HANDS OPEN IN HIJAB, AND OTHER SALAF SAID U CANT. . SALAFS M0STLY DO NOT AGREE ON MATTERS. . . . . REAL SALAFS(sahabahs) even do act or say things different fr0m quran and hadith. . its simply misunderstandinq and mistake. . . . .TO KNOW IS EASY, JUST CHECK QURAN AND HADITH. . WHAT MAKES IT SWEETER IS THAT ITS SAHABAH OR SALAF THAT WILL CORRECT EACHOTHER. . TO KN0W IS TO WATCHOUT FOR THE PROOF THEY WILL BRING. . . . .GDGGPdpdr

@bolded, you are a big LIAR

So the only way we can ever be united is if we hold on to the Quran and sunnah according to the salaf (pious predecessors) or this ummah. Not some newly invented ideologies.

What is most interesting is that every sect claims to have gotten it's ideologies from the Quran and sunnah but when we sieve it with the understanding of the companions all the false ideologies disappeare and we have the one and only pristine creed of Islam.

That pristine creed is the ctiterion

If we look at all the innovations in the ummah today, they were born as a result of deviation from the line of the companions, if the innovators had restricted themselves to the way of the companions they wouldn't have fallen into the misguidance they fell into.

If the innovators of maulid didn't claim to love the messenger alyhissolaat was salaam more that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman and Ali we wouldn't be battling with their innovation today.

If the Ahmadiyyah people didn't claim to understand Quran and sunnah more than the companions we wouldn't have the problem we are having today.

All the misguidance of the shia is based on their hatred for the companions.

A deeper pondering will make us realize that the more a group detests the companions and their ways the more it drowns in misguidance. That explains why the shia is another religion entirely.

Someone might say: but the companions are also human, they are not infallible.
We say yes but their consensus on a religious matter is infallible because Allah says:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 115:
وَمَن يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّىٰ وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

So whoever follows other than the path of the believers is going to an evil destination. Don't forget, the believers here are the companions then whoever follows their methodology too is a true believer.

Let's ponder on this verse below

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 285:
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

The believers referred to in that verse are the companions because you and I were not in existence thevdisbelievers they were the only believers.

Allah says the companions have believed, He even mentioned their belief along side the belief of the messenger alyhissolaat was salaam to emphasize their belief.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

The differences in the ummah today are obvious to even the disbelievers. Several movements and societies keep rising daily each with its unique ideology. One can't but ask: why all these differences, our book is only one, our messenger is only one, why are we not united?

If only we all held on to the Quran and sunnah and strived as much as possible to remain on the path of the path of the guided people we wouldn't find ourselves in this mess we are today.

The messenger alyhissolaat was salaam already mentioned to us this division and out his mercy alyhissolaat was salaam he also told us the cure.
The messenger told us that this ummah would be divided into 73 sects all will be in hell except one. And as Allah said in the Quran each sect will claim to be the most guided.
Rather each sect will call the others deviant and misguided.

The problem is not in calling another sect a deviant sect if it is based on knowledge and justice but the problem is in knowing the criterion for knowing the rightly guided sect from the misguided sects.

The messenger alyhissolaat was salaam out of his mercy for us told us the easiest way to differentiate the guided sect from the others, he alyhissolaat was salaam said:

What I'm upon today and my companions

In another report he alyhissolaat was salaam said:
"hold on to my sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided Khalifas after me"
And he alyhissolaat was salaam even emphasised it saying:
"hold on to it with your molar teeth"
SubhanLlah!


The above statement clearly shows that whatever the companions did not believe or take as an act of worship it is completely wrong to take it as an act of worship.
As Allah says regarding their belief that:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 137:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنتُم بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوا وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran


So if you have their type of creed and ideology you are guided if not you are misguided no matter how much shaitan beautifies your invented ideology.

This matter has been discussed earlier on another thread.

In summary it's detested but not prohibited.

GreatManBee:
Have you been able to get this now?

No sir

AbuUthaymeen:
Eeman means aqeedah and it also means belief. . .Eeman is divided into 2. . And it does increase and decrease. .eeman is known by action, belief and sayings. . .and your eeman can got spoiled, destroyed by kufru, shirk, bida.. #those destroys it# . . then sin only decreases eeman. . . #oro re su mi o. . na so you people dey lie up0n jabata and keep saying what he didnt say. .# NOW I KNOW THAT FEELING. . . .0. . U keep calling me a khawarij. . .have i ever make takfir of a muslim? have i ever make takfir of a sinner? have i ever protest to government in any way? have i ever killed a muslim? #laughing. . .you dont even know what or who is khawarij. . .olodo oshi.# SO SURATUL MAIDAH VERSE 3,the phrase"i have perfected ur religion" MEANS ISLAM HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED? THAT ALL KNOWLEDGE AND RULINGS OF ISLAM HAS NOT YET COMPLETE? . .# I give up# you no know anything about islam. . . surah wey even get hadith on it. . #wahala wa o# DO U EVEN KNOW KALIN ME KHAWARIJ MEANS U MAKE TAKFIR OF ME?#Vgc

I said that's the implication of your ideology ! I didn't say you said it! Abi u don't av eyes ni?

AbuUthaymeen:
Eeman means aqeedah and it also means belief. . .Eeman is divided into 2. . And it does increase and decrease. .eeman is known by action, belief and sayings. . .and your eeman can got spoiled, destroyed by kufru, shirk, bida.. #those destroys it# . . then sin only decreases eeman. . . #oro re su mi o. . na so you people dey lie up0n jabata and keep saying what he didnt say. .# NOW I KNOW THAT FEELING. . . .0. . U keep calling me a khawarij. . .have i ever make takfir of a muslim? have i ever make takfir of a sinner? have i ever protest to government in any way? have i ever killed a muslim? #laughing. . .you dont even know what or who is khawarij. . .olodo oshi.c

I tire for you.

Go ahead with your Jabata ideology. May Allah save you.

I stand with the companions and those after them.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 137:
فَإِنْ آمَنُوا بِمِثْلِ مَا آمَنتُم بِهِ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوا وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا هُمْ فِي شِقَاقٍ فَسَيَكْفِيكَهُمُ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

AbuUthaymeen:
Explain it then

On this day your religion is perfect as Allah has revealed to you all the halaal and Haram and every way that you will see his mercy so you are in no need of any other source of guidance.

Finish.

But you continued to say this means that and that means those till you reach your takfeeri ideology.

AbuUthaymeen:
LAUGHING. . . I give up.. let me bring another proof. .explain suratul suraa verse 21 and bukhari 5063 and muslim 1401

Your claim is based on the khaariji ideology that Eeman is not divided and once a part goes all of it goes.

The creed of Ahl Sunnah wal Jamah is that Eemaan increases and decreases as the messenger alyhissolaat was salaam explained.
So if a person commits bidah he is not a disbeliever, his Eeman has only reduced except if his bidah includes act of disbelief.
So if a person commits bidah his Eeman has reduced not disappeared. Just like the one who commits sins too.

Secondly, if we want to use your ideology we will call sinners too kafir because they are also going against the verses of the Quran that said Don't lie, don't kill, don't commit adultery etc. Or is staying away from sins not also a part of the perfect religion?!

AbuUthaymeen:
ALSO QUOTE 5063 FR0M BUKHARI

I'm your quoter abi? You can't buy soheeh bukharee

AbuUthaymeen:
the phrase "I HAVE PERFECTED" . . .perfect means complete. . complete means no addittion or subtraction or changing its order. . it means leave it as it is stated, written, relayed, reported, explained, understood, delivered ..e.t.c . . AND THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF BIDA. . . . . . . . . . . . .any ibaadat that ALLAH did not order, nor it is done by rasul, we must stay away. . .BECAUSE IT WILL MEAN DISBELIEVE IN THAT QURAN VERSE. . . also is every ibaadat done by rasul or ordered by ALLAH must be done exactly the way it was revealed, no changing or adding or subtraction. . BECAUSE IT WILL LEAD TO DISBELIEVE IN THAT QURAN VERSE. . . . . and using sp0on falls into "changing" .... DISBELIEVE IN QURAN VERSE = KUFRU ... EVERY SINGLE BIDA MEANS REJECTION AND NOT BELIEVING IN THE QURAN SURAH MAIDAH VERSE 3. .......do u now understand? . . . . .am sure u wil say which scholar explains it or understand it just like i did. . .#laughing

See twisting of Quran!

This is clear interpolation of the Quran.

You added your own to it.

*A Great Danger*

Sh. Ṣāliḥ al-Fawzān Hafiẓahullāh mentioned the story of a man who read Bukhārī on his own and he came across the Ḥhadeeth:

ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﺷﻔﺎﺀ ﻣﻦ ﻛﻞ ﺩﺍﺀ

'Blackseed has cure for every illness.'

However he read ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (blackseed) as ﺍﻟﺤﻴﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (black snake), thus he went, bought a black snake, slaughtered it, ate it and afterwards died from its poisoning, so had he asked the scholars he would've saved himself,
So merely studying without returning to Ahlul-'Ilm (for its understanding) is a great danger so look to how many pretenders of knowledge have killed themselves (due to self-amazement).

● [Taken from the Shaykh's book: ﻃﺮﻕ ﺗﻌﻠﻢ ﺍﻟﻌﻠﻢ ]
Translated (Paraphrased) By: Sameeullaah Sameeullaah (Aboo Maryamm)

Newnas' note: Ibnul Jawziyy mentioned a similar story in his book أخبار الحمقاى و المغفلين (Stories of dumb and featherbrained people)

AbuUthaymeen:
IF SURAH MAIDAH VERSE 3 ISNT CLEAR. . QUOTE HADITH BUKHARI 5064 OR MUSLIM 1401

Sarah maidah verse 3 is clear. Bring out Bidah=kufr!

Below is hadith 5064 from Bukharee

AbuUthaymeen:
Laugh rolling on the floor. . for real? you do n0t even kn0w the SENTENCE THAT SAID BIDA = KUFRU in that verse? for real? . . . .this one weak me o. . START READING FROM " THIS DAY I HAVE PERFECTED YOUR RELIGION FOR YOU" OR BETTER STILL, THIS DAY THOSE WHO DISBELIEVED. .. . . .

Where is it? Simple!

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 3:

Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maytatah (the dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and the meat of that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah, or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allah's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) - and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An-Nusub (stone altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision, (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allah and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above-mentioned meats), then surely, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Where is All bidah=kufr?

AbuUthaymeen:
Even if i did relay all i heard with its pr0of and tira and quran and hadith . . . ALL YOU WIL SAY IS THERE ARE SCHOLARS WHO DIDNT SAY THAT. . EYIN OMO SCHOLAR #laughing

If you don't need scholars why are you trying to quote Ibn Taymiyyah? See your self contradiction!

Bring your evidence ooo and explain.

You are wasting my time.

AbuUthaymeen:
Laughing. .where did i contradict myself o. and na me wrote the tira abi..if u think the name of the tira isnt correct, o ya correct it..#laughing# . .AFTER ALL, WHICH SCHOLAR UNDERSTANDING noni u go later say#laughing . . . .tadgisnt

I should name your reference for you?! You are so shameless!

All I know is Ibn Taymiyyah has no book by that name!

AbuUthaymeen:
USE YOUR BRAINS TO RELATE THE VERSES. . .BUKHARI HADITH NUMBER I QUOTED, GO READ IT. .ITS VERY MUCH STRAIGHT FORWARD.

Abeg explain something joor, you think you can come here and be shouting without explaining?!
It's your responsibility to explain whatever evidence you quote!

AND ASK UR ALFA TO GIVE U PR0OF OF ALL UR CONFUSI0N OR START LISTENING TO PEOPLE WITH KNOWLEDGE LECTURE

But you earlier said scholars are not needed!

I've listened to lectures of Albany, Ibn Baaz, Uthymeen, Sheikh Fawzaan, Sheikh Solih Suhaymee etc
I've read books of Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibnul Qoyyim, Ibn Jareer Tabaree, Muhammad bn AbdilWahhaab etc

I have read Athar of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Muawiyah etc.

Non of them ever said this!

So please which scholar should I refer to?

AbuUthaymeen:
OPONU..you cant use ur own brain to explain straight and clear quran and hadith proof. .maybe ALLAH wil ask you which scholar fatwa u follow. .OYO lo wa.. and please do n0t qu0te me again and do n0t ask me sch0lar explanati0n again.if u cant use ur brain,cant follow clear pr0of..stick with scholar. .md

You are the real OPONU, I'll explain the reason for you:

# You listened to a five hour lecture but can't explain a single verse or hafith used in the whole lecture!

#You are ignorant of Arabic language but yet try to reference a book in Arabic language

#you couldn't even cram the name of the book well, you were corrected but still repeated the same thing again!

# You have contradicted yourself up to five times on this thread!

Tell me what else is needed to qualify for OPONU title.

AbuUthaymeen:
Just quote it as i wrote it, just give it to your alfa to explain. . or go check ibn tamiyah idina sitratal mustakeem tira and any other scholar who wrote tira on bida... they all use that verse as delil .. or perhaps, listen to abu ibeji lecture on bida. .its 5 hours lecture.. he quoted so many scholars books and their page number . . or better still, go read quran maidah verse 3... the relate it with the definition of bida of your own choice...#lobatan5

You haven't said anything tangible.

Ibn Taymiyyah has no book with such name.

Leave Abu Ibeji or Jabata out of this, as you can see I've left my teachers too out of this.

My simple question is:

How is the verse a proof?

Don't tell me you listened to the whole five hour lecture and can't recall just one evidence and its explanation, you should cover your face in shame if that is the case!

AbuUthaymeen:
EXPLAIN SURATUL MAIDAH VERSE 3 and HADITH BUKHARI 5063 ...every single answer to your questions are in those proofs

In what way are they proofs?

AbuUthaymeen:
THE ANSWER IS ALLAH AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD.. #QURAN AND HADITH#.... even if i give u clear proof and scholar proof, you wil stil never accept. .#laughing# . .will always be a kafir. . its n0t the 1st time av talked with proof on bida and proof ..also is spoon and its judgement. .YOU HAVE READ AND KNOW ITS PROOF. .but u will never accept ..dG G

I'm surprised how you feel comfortable with your empty boasts.

Now you are unable to provide a scholar that proceeded jabata in his opinion meaning his ideology is a completely new ideology.
Ordinarily looking at the title of your thread this discussion should be over.

You claimed to be following the path of the salaf but you can't mention just one of them that hold your opinion. The only reason why you continue typing is because you are shameless.

So, let's move on, from the Quran and sunnah, what's your claim that all bidah is kufr based on and what's your proof that spoon is bidah?

From Kitaab and sunnah only now.

AbuUthaymeen:
TO PEOPLE READING THIS. . .Do not forget that i said that among the qualities of the kufars hiding behind the name ahlu sunnah IS TO LEAVE CLEAR PROOFS AND QUOTE CONFUSING PROOFS . . . Am sure people with knowledge of WHO AND WHAT AND HISTORY OF KHAWARIJ INLINE WITH KITAB AND SUNNAH WILL BE LAUGHING AT THIS CLOWN CALLED NEWNAS .. . . now. .let me school you. . .with knowledge your scholars(amubieya and others) never did know..and some among them know it but they will never tell you. . when they think they are all against jabata without them knowing its kitab wa sunnah they are against......

# Please speak English, you are not communicating. Your words are mumbled and jumbled like those of an insane poet... rather worse!

# Please mention the clear proof that you have.

# You haven't answered any of the above allegations:

1) which scholar ever called spoon Bidah?

2) which scholar ever called all Bidah kufr?

And you also share another fundamental methodology with the innovators -and of course you are an innovator and innovation! -

That fundamental methodology is double standard. When you want to call innovations and innovators kafir you claim that Quran and sunnah are sufficient for us and you try as much as possible to exclude Sahabah and scholars all in a bid to justify your ideology.

On the other hand when you want to refute Sufi, shia and other innovators you rely on scholars and Sahabah understanding of the Quran and sunnah.

Your matter is indeed one of desires not guidance!

I'm well conversant with the methodology of you jabatawiyy Takfeeri people.
Innovators are always the same:
Just as Imam Jalaaluddeen said in Itmaamu diraayah that we should all follow Imam Ash'aree! and the Jahmiyyah also say the way of Jahm is the way and the maturidiyyah too etc They all claim that the Quran supports their Ideology but their ideologies contradict that of the Sahabah so it is automatically null and void!

Why should we?! He's not infallible! Infallibility belongs to Allah, His Prophets (in matters of worship) and to the consensus of the Muslim Ummah not one fellow from one place

And you seem to be either a liar or have short memory!

See what you said below and compare it to how you deny being independent of scholars.

This is the exact thing the khawarij said to Abdullah bn Abass and Ali bn Abi Talib and the companions.