₦airaland Forum

@mazaje;

You have been told that the devil exist but the FACT is that you have NO evidence to show that the devil actally exist outside the pages of the bible, your imaginations and your preconcieved notions

I asked you a simple question: whether you believe in occults or not? are you not an African? you should have known that before coming of Christianity, our ancestors were into satanic worship and practices, even now, you see people engaging in witchcraft, or are you not in Africa? Point I am making is that it is not the Bible only that teaches about the existence of devil and God. Stop deluding yourself and confusing your mind thinking you are been intelligent, the devil wants to destroy your soul.

Am still waiting for further refutations.

Contradiction No. 15:

Thinking located in the breasts?



Surely He knows well all the thoughts within the breasts.
-- Sura 11:5
Die in your rage; God knows the thoughts in the breasts.
-- Sura 3:119

The above is Arberry's translation. Yusuf Ali translates "heart" instead of "breasts," but whether heart or breast, the question would be the same.

This wouldn't even be worth mentioning as a "problem" if Muslims were not stressing so much the scientific accuracy of the Qur'an. The Semitic people thought the location of "thinking" to be in the chest/heart area [many Bible verses show the same view]. I can easily accept it for both Bible and Qur'an that these verses do not make any scientific claims nor do they give medical descriptions of the seat of thinking, but that they just employ the commonly used expressions to communicate the truth the author wants to express here, namely that God knows our deepest secrets and thoughts. To this day we say (in English) that God knows our "heart" and we don't mean the muscle in our physical body but our motives and desires. And we speak that way due to tradition even though we know those are to be located in the brain if one can give it a location at all.

I don't want to parade this example as a difficulty or contradiction in the Qur'an. It only shows that this was the common way of speaking about it in the Middle East and even until today in our "scientific age."

But it is one passage which shows that the Qur'an uses the normal language to communicate, and is indeed very unscientific by doing so. I believe that the Qur'an is equally unscientific in many other verses where Muslims try to extract scientific miracles and which are just lending themselves in their vageness better to be twisted into harmony with some modern science theories even though nothing like that was intended in the text.

But if Muslims insist in a general scientific accuracy of the Qur'an and want to make scientific accuracy of the Qur'an a proof for its divine inspiration, then the above verses are indeed a clear mistake and Muslims who want to make a case for the Qur'an on the basis of scientific accuracy will have to deal with it.

Contradiction No. 14:

Ants Cannot Talk



At length, when they came to a valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which Thou has bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by They Grace to the ranks of Thy Righteous Servants."
-- Sura An-Naml [The Ant] (27):18-19

But then there are these Amazing Facts About Ants that in contradiction to the Qur'an, ants do communicate using smells, not modulation of sounds. Solomon could not have heard any talk since ants do not produce any.

Additionally, to imagine that ants communicate such sophisticated information as the Qur'an claims seems rather to belong into the land of fairy tales than science (e.g. an ant being able to distinguish between Solomon and a soldier).

Even though basically all communication between ants is through chemical signals, there are, however, a few subspecies of ants which do use some sound communication. But of what kind and complexity is it?

The use of vibrational signals is weakly developed in ants in comparison with communication by pheromones. , Two forms of sound production have been identified., body rapping against the substratum and stridulation, the latter employing files and scrapers clearly evolved for a communicative purpose. , [p. 255]
It has long been known, thanks to the experiments of , that ants are nearly deaf to airborne vibrations but extremely sensitive to vibrations carried through the substratum , [p. 257]

No evidence exists to rank the chirps of stidulation as anything more than simple unitary signals. In other words, ants do not "talk" by modulating sound through time. , sounds , do not appear to vary within species or within the repertory of one worker ant through time. , stridulation in ants produces a monotonous series of chirps with limited meaning. [p. 257]

The signaling pattern is independent of the triggering stimulus. That is, the ants do not modify the drumming to identify the category of danger to the nest. [p. 256]

All the above is taken from:

Bert Hölldobler and Edward O. Wilson
The Ants
Cambridge, Mass., Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1990. xii, 732 p.,
ISBN 0674040759, Library Call Number: QL568 .F7 H57 1990

Chapter 7, pages 227-297 speak about communication. Page 228 gives a table of different signals in communication between ants. Of the 17 "messages" listed 14 are chemical, 2 are tactile, 1 is "chemical or tactile". In all the intensive studies of ants, "speech" (modulated sound of complex meaning) has never been observed.

When a live ant is marked with the chemical [one that develops in dead ants], i.e. sending the message that this ant is dead, the struggling ant is nevertheless taken by the others and carried out to the rubbish dump. Chemicals take the precedence over anything else. Surely no intelligent speech communication as claimed in this Qur'an passage. Action is blind reaction to the chemical message [pheromones]. (See From Gaia to selfish genes : selected writings in the life sciences, edited by Connie Barlow, Cambridge, Mass., MIT Press, 1991, 273 p, the chapter "From ants to anthropology" by E. O. Wilson, page 153-154.)

Contradiction No. 13:

S. 21:30.


Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made EVERY living thing of water? Will they not then believe? 21:30 Pickthall

However, this related verse contains an additional problematic statement.


Allah has created EVERY moving (living) creature from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Verily! Allah is Able to do all things. S. 24:45 Al-Hilali & Khan

And Allah has created from water EVERY living creature: so of them is that which walks upon its belly, and of them is that which walks upon two feet, and of them is that which walks upon four; Allah creates what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things. S. 24:45 Shakir

Aren't there a lot of creatures missing in the "divine categorization" of living creatures that is given in S. 24:45? The author starts with making a comprehensive, all-inclusive statement. He speaks about "every living creature". First he refers to their common origin, i.e. that all of them were created from water, and then he categorizes them according to what distinguishes them, their characteristic property. He gives three categories in which those creatures exist:


‘walking’ with no legs [e.g. snakes and snails]
walking with two legs [human beings (?), birds (?), jinn (?),
walking with four legs [e.g. most mammals (sheep, cows, dogs, horses, camels, etc.) and most reptiles (frogs, crocodiles, most lizards, etc.)]
However, as intuitive as these three categories may appear at first sight, the author of S. 24:45 forgot a huge number of species when he made this statement. Even the Qur'an mentions several creatures that are not covered by this categorization: the gnat (2:26), the bee (16:68), the fly (22:73), and moths (101:4) which are all insects and walk on six legs, the spider (29:41) that walks on eight legs, and all kinds of fish (5:96, 18:61, 37:142) which have no legs and are not walking (or creeping) at all.[1] Moreover, apart from those various creatures mentioned in the Qur'an, there are the octopus ("eight foot", actually, there are about 300 species of octopus) and other cephalopods, various crabs that have ten legs (1, 2), caterpillars, centipedes and millipedes, all of which are not mentioned in the Qur'an.

In fact, for anyone concerned about the "scientific miracle of the Qur'an" the omission of the six-legged insects must be devastating since science teaches that there are vastly more insects than there are animals with no legs, two or four legs taken together.

[/quote]The story which is read in Surah kahf speaks about a powerful person with all the means to help or accomplish a mission, with authority reaching very far and wide, who helped a people to be secured away from an evil race. This must be something of the past, long before Muhammad (AS), a story told by him, in revelation from his Creator, the Author of the Quran. Now Islam of Adam must be crude and almost not resemble the Islam of Ibrahim and that of Ibrahim must not as refined and structured as that of Muhammad! But each has a purity of worship in obedience to Allah, alone, the yardstick of Islam. Now, tell me where in the Quran in Arabic that you found Alexander, except Dhul Qarnain? Muhammad (AS) never gave a name of Alexander. [quote]

Your islamic scholar and the dictionary of the koran refer to the person as Alexander the Great. That doesnot concern me, what concerns me is the inaccuracy of the koranic rendering of Aleander's history. We are talking about contradictions in the koran, remember?

Try to see Niger River at the time of unset and compare it to its clear look at midday in July!

This still fail to explain why the koran said that the sun set in murky spring.

My saying that fired brick did not appear could not have been translated by educated mind to mean that the idea of this method of brick making was at least thought about before, and could not mean that a structure was not at least designed with it. It simply means from my understanding that this technology was not established yet or widespread, a commonly used yet. Your Bible even was saying someting like that;

See your dishonesty pop up again? burnt bricks were used by people of the mesopotamian, Egyptians were using sun-dried mud bricks made of straw, yet your koran erroneosly said they were using burnt bricks. Your companion, abulbanaat said here that cut stone meant burnt bricks, and after I exposed you, you are now changing gear, fact is, as at that time, Egyptians were using mud bricks as against the lie mentioned in the koran.

Thats not a smart analysis of the verse. With wisdom you will realise that muddy is equal to murky (not clear, cant see through it). A spring is water body, and by Allah when the light is weak, as it is the time of sunset, you cant see the water bottom anymore or clearly because the surface is now murky or muddy looking.

So the sun settle into a murky spring? Your explanation is not comprehensive enough. What wisdom are you talking about? wisdom of believing the sun settle in a murky spring?

Have you seen a Jew before? He can talk you to give your last Kobo to him, while he has a pile high of Naira! I wonder if the Egyptians who have been berieved will simply and easily give gifts to their slaves who have caused them so much sadness as they lost their first born, as they are leaving this work for nothing position will give gifts of the most expensive thing; Gold and others? American blacks are still waiting for the promised 40 Acres and a Mule, from the USA, and you expect the egyptian victims in their tyranny to give their possessions to the Children of Israel, and yet America is more liberal and cant even fulfill their own promise?

You mean you now doubt the veracity of the Torah which even your prophet said he believe in? Well dont use mind game to drift away from the OP, question is, the koranic translators claimed a samaritan built the golden calf, even before samaritans existed, yusuf alli changed it to mean stranger, abulbanaat translated it to somebody from iraq, while you claim it is somebody's name . . . what a bunch of hypocrites! See your delusionary tactics coming up again:

each one of us is describing a single man, and not a tribe! More importantly, he must have left with them from Egypt or joined up with them on the way, but was already an accepted companion at the eent of golden calf. What I saw was Samiri, an identity of a person, a proper name! I am called Babajebu in my family by my inlaws who are not from Ijebu bloodlines. I am called Olabowale because its a name for me. Yet am called others, my muslim name, and Mr. when my family name is used, and father of Lai by my mother, and others as they wish. But it is still me; same here as Samiri is a name of the leader of idol worshipping at the time of exodus of the Israelites.

so the meaning is now expanding to accomodate more lies: samaritan, Iraqi, stranger, somebody's name, Leader of idol worshipping. What a funny attempt at legalising illegality

Now, none of the gods of egypt can animated, alive like human, except the priests act on their figurine behaves. Hence Pharaoh in his arrogance, as I have said made himself also god, now more than a king so that he can suppress his people's ability to free themselves and emancipate themselves into the truth of Musa (AS). You cant deny the truth, by now.

This does not explain why the koran referred to egyptians as polytheists and monotheists (pharoah as only god)! Please explain the contradiction.

When Jesus was reported to have preached the Gospel, was it already written down by the writers, then, while Jesus was still here, what was meant by "preach the Gospel" relative to Jesus preaching among his people? I thought Jesus left before they wrote it down, so how did he preach what was not revealed to him, but was a collection of his preaching, life works, etc by people left behind?

This does not explain why the koran was comparing the New Testament(written by followers of Jesus) to koran(written by mohammed). In order words, mohammed claim to receive a revelation which he wrote down in a book, and thought the New Testament was also written down by Jesus.

Nezan, you are a very dishonest soul. What I wrote is more than what you mentioned for me. I indicated that crucifixion is more than a cross death, but included ordinary stake! Read my statement, again, below:

Your trying to explain the crucifixion process does not explain why the koran goofed by claiming it was carried out by pharoah to punish people while in reality, it was invented centuries later by the Romans. Point been made here is the contradiction in the koran which invented crucifixion before it was invented! no need trying to drift our argument away from the contradictions in the koran.

Even you today, you are a polytheist! You have a big God; Father and smaller gods; Jesus is one that you use his name to appease or appeal to the big God as follows in your prayer "in jesus name, " No? When push really comes to shove you say the big god is really your God, because he created everything, and the small God, Jesus did not come to existence until "lets there be light as a word of Big God"!

Stop running away from the topic, remember we are discussing contradictions in the koran, dont think you will save face by derailing the OP. Question is, koran refered to egyptians as polytheists, and then in the same breathe, refered to pharoah as egypt's god . . contradiction of the highest order!

Who is paul or saul? have you ever taken your time to read what has has to say? do you know that there is a very great contradiction with regards to how paul narrates his stories in his letters and how the same stories were told in the book of acts? Pls tell me how exactly was paul converted. . . .the two narratives written in the book of acts completely cancel each other out and it says that the story is a lie. . . . .

Bring out the contradictions let us trash them here.

Actually the disagreements between christians shows that the christian god does not exist at all. . . . .there are over 33,000 sects of the christian religion and most of them are at war with each other. . . .what exatcly do you mean when you say you worship him in spirit and in truth? Go visit the catholic church, the seven day adventist church, the pentacostal church, the greek othordox church, the mormons, the white garment wearing african churches etc and tell me if they even believe in the same god concept. . . . .Since the christian god is just not there people always have to self project themselves as god in all cases and tell people what they feel their own version of the christian god wants and needs based on thier own ideas, emotions, fatasies and thoughts. . . . . . that is why we have young earth creationist, old earth creationist, believers in a local flood, those that believe in the trinity and those that do not believe in it. . . . those that believe in hell as an everlasting place of torture and those that do not etc all existing amongst the various sects of christianity. . . .christians are YET to agree on the basic nature of their god. . . .ıs jesus god or the son of god that question has yet to be answered even amongst christians. . . .all of them just point to the bible to show that they are right. . . .

This is even more evidence that our God really exists. The Bible told us that in the later days, the devil will try to pretend to be a Christian (as you once were) but will only try to woo them away from Christ, so that if it was possible, he will even mislead the very elect of God. What you are seen today is a manifestation of this prophecy. The devil has silently crept into our Churches to thwart the Truth of God, but God promised us that He will be with us. The triumph of the devil over our Churches will only be for a while. We shall surely overcome!

It counts a lot. . . .I was once in the christian bubble and i know very how it works. . . .What about this mythical devil that you have been decieved to believe in his existence despite the fact that you do not have any evidence at all to show that this devil exist outside the pages of the bible or your imaginations. . . .do you have any evidence to show that praying to imaginary deity works? If praying to imaginary deities work we won't be here having this conversation at all. . . . .

Dont be myopic man, the devil really exists and he is the one leading you to the path of destruction. Do you believe that cults and occultic societies exist? you should because many Nigerian politicians are into it. That is just to educate your blinded mind that satan/devil really exists. You were into the Christian bubble? I should laugh because your father lucifer himself was once in heaven!!

I am looking forward to further refutations of these and the other ones you people dodged

^^ Calm down, you are still young, next year might be your lucky year. Stop cursing.

God save us!

It all depends on the satisfaction you are getting, either monetary or otherwise. Fact is, do what you think will be satisfying to you.

Nigerians hmm . . . . they can never see anything positive as happening in they country.

@OP; May be the guy wants another shot at the Assembly seat. Nigerian politicians will never help you out without reason.

So the ibrus have taken the fight to their newspaper, the guardian, right?

Let Peter Obi continue, after all, it is always continuity in Nigerian political landscape.

Despite all the negative perceptions, am still proudly Nigerian, never to be denied!

Too busy to be freaky about my weight.

A funny thread I must say

. . . hmm, when will this whole thing stop?

State Police=Political Thugs

@ OP, on a serious note, Chisco is one of the leading transport companies in Nigeria. Kudos to the Chidi.

When will Africa be free from the yoke of irresponsible and failed leadership?

You no see any car buy for Naija?

You no see any car buy for Naija?

Liz will always be admired in Nollywood, she is welcomed back.

^^no getaway without my kids!