₦airaland Forum

What is my evidence. Two spells at Chelsea where he is given considerable less to spend, all fall to pieces. Remember the Omelette shitzo.

This is how Jose works. He arrives with the guarantee of winning you the tile in the first season. The owners and fans are super excited, they give him all he wants. He gets his millions. He in turn buys almost burnt-out resources. The resources cannot sustain his methods for more than 2 seasons. So he needs to replenish. However there comes a breaking point where the owners cannot sustain the spending season in season out. They want him to cut, manage, promote youth. He can't, he doesn't. They fall out and never wins the league in his third season.

Then he moves on and repeats this all over again.

With all due respect, everything you wrote there is either a lie or an exaggeration. Let's look at Jose's first stint at Chelsea for example.

Jose arrived at a club that hadn't won a league title in 50+ years, and had only made their first appearance in the UCL in the year 2000. He was mandated to wrest the title from a club that had won the title 8 times in the preceding 11 years, and had won the UCL before Chelsea even got to participate.

To make matters worse, this club was managed by a manager that was willing to spend heavily(and a board that was ready to back him to hilt) who had outspent almost every club in the league every year for almost a decade, breaking the club transfer record 7 times along the way.

Further complicating matters, there was another club there who had also won the title recently,who boasted of a highly technical team, and had the best striker in the league on their payroll. This team had just completed the last season without suffering a single loss in the league.

Jose spent heavily to catch up. Of course he had to. It was necessary. But did he buy 'almost burnout resources' like you claim? His main group of untouchables from 2006 lasted almost up to a decade. Terry is still here sef. Cech only left last year. Lampard the year before. Ashley the year before. The core of Jose's team continued to remain important players for us 6,7,8 years after he left!

Again the question of promotion of youth is another lie. This guy gave chances at Chelsea to the likes of Zouma, Courtois, RLC, etc. It's not his fault if the players are either not ready to, or incapable of taking their chance. He has a mandate to win and win NOW. If any young player comes in and doesn't take his chance, then it's too bad. Did Jose promote any less than his rivals in the top 4? How many Leicester youth were in that title winning side? NONE.

This is not to say that Jose does not bring negativity. Far from it. Jose brings a negative attitude when his authority is challenged. Hence the Class A eggs thing. He went to Italy and reportedly fought there too. Went to Spain and put his hand in his rival's eye and faught with Casillas and Ramos. Came back and fought with Eva, Hazard, Costa (and Emenalo ). Then gone to united and already jabo'd Giggs and put Rooney in his place.

But Burnout? No way. Last season, the man actually started preseason late so that the boys could have some more time off. Then Costa ran away to Brazil to consume Fufu and Stout, and Hazard ate too many burgers. The result was unfit and overweight players, with Fabregas actually stated that Jose had trusted the boys too much.

Di Matteo won with possibly worse odds. Chelsea were going out when he took over from AVB. DM might have won the league the season after had he stayed and spent £100m.

This is a strawman that is irrelevant and inconsequential to the debate. I could point out that Chelsea under RDM had more pedigree than Porto under Jose, but that would be pointless because it makes no difference anyway. Theres a reason why one of them is at manchester united now, and the other is in the championship.

The difference is Jose grinds out wins with a £400m squad. That's not a hallmark. That's a shame. If Jose ground out wins with multi million pound squads, what's to say he would have done it with Leicester?

Context! Same Jose that shamefully grinds out wins finished with the 2nd highest number of league goals in 2005, joint highest in 06 and 2nd highest in 2015. At Inter, he finished 2nd highest in his first season and scored the highest number of goals in his second season. At Madird he set records for most games won in a La Liga season (32), most away wins (16), most points obtained in any of the top European leagues (100), improving the most goals scored record they already had set earlier (121) and finishing the season with the highest goal difference (+89)

What is shameful about this?

That's not the point. Jose is one who relies on every department of the team being solid to win. You think Jose will settle for a side that won't spend on a new core but buy just one Striker?

The hypothetical question was whether Jose could win with this Leicester side. The supposition is that Jose has already 'settled for a side that won't spend on a new core but buy just one Striker' and we're trying to guess what would happen after.

And I don't see why Jose could not achieve a relative amount of success all things being equal. This is Jose we're talking about...not Phillip Troussier.

raumdeuter:
The last paragraph caught my attention

Whats the difference between Barca/Bayern and Chelsea/Inter/Madrid? Madrid is the richest club and the biggest spender in all of Europe, Chelsea was the same in the time of Mourinho

If you can come up with the amount spent by Mourinho in Madrid + Chelsea that would surely dwarf whatever Pep Spent in Barca+Bayern (not even factoring the Inter Milan spending into it

I have a train to catch. I dey come

nateevs:
That's the inference you draw from my posts not what I am necessarily trying to pass across. And yes I do believe he is a top title-winning manager (and that's on purpose. "Title-winning" because he is not so much a player/team/club manager but that's topic for another day).

What you don't get is how I am able to conclude that he is a top title-winning manager yet able to criticize his success in the same breath. This is is not an all-or-nothing argument. There are several iterations in between.

Jose is a sure banker to win you the League. But my point tries to focus on how many trophies he really would win if he didn't have as much to spend. It doesn't mean he still not top class. I hope you can consider this stance.

I completely get your argument. Like I said earlier: "Your post heavily implies that Jose might not necessarily be better than Conte given that Jose has largely outspent Conte throughout their respective careers." and my inference is justified by your bolded paragraph.

Nobody said that you cannot criticize Jose as title winner...but the suggestion that Jose would not win as much if he didn't have that much money to spend is so simplistic and verges on the nonsensical. Firstly, like I said to you before, spending is NO GUARANTEE of success. If it was, then whoever spent the most in the transfer market would win every single time.

Secondly, you are not placing Jose's spending in proper context. Jose has spent the last decade managing teams that are expected to compete for the title, in direct competition with other franchises boasting similarly talented playing staff, who are occasionally spending hundreds of millions of pounds r in the transfer market as well.

Example 1: Jose arrived at Chelsea to compete with Ferguson who had by time,already broken his club transfer record signing on 7 occasions(and british record I think twice). Ferguson had a stranglehold on the league by already having the best (or one of the)team in the league, and still spent 50m+ that season.

Example 2: Jose arrived at Chelsea for the second time in 2013/2014. That year Spurs spent over 100m. City spent 90m and United spent 66. The next season Arsenal spent 100m+, Liverpool spent 100m+, United spent close to 200m, City spent 77m...even Southampton spent 80m!

Example 3: Jose went to Madrid. Obviously at the time Barca had undoubtedly the best team in the world. Yet in his season there Barca spent 66m, the second year, they spent another 50m

So you can see that it's not as if Jose is just spending stupidly whilst his opponents are standing still. So I guess you may need to rephrase your question.

Are you asking if Jose will continue to win trophies when spending less in the transfer market whilst his rivals continue to spend more and more?

And more pertinently, is that a reasonable question?

I will be back...

raumdeuter:
What evidence do they have or how does what Guy Roux said have any impact on the age issue?

He joined the Benfica academy around 9yrs and his pictures and videos around shows he looks like a 9yr old

Moreover renato was born in Europe Portugal

If it's the physique I can show you 100 Americans 18 years old bigger than that

Check LeBron Rooney or Micah Richard's at 18

LOL

Sanches may actually be 18...or he may not.

What seems so dodgy to me is the fact that his birth was not registered until 5 years after he was born. How did he get a passport, register for social services, or even register at school or even at the hospital?

That's dodgy mehn...

And like I said Football age scam is the 2nd oldest scam in football.

diggz:
The guy was using style to throw shades.

Who GBR? Guy Roux? or the Sporting President?

GBR1:
You shouldn't have posted this. It's a non story. Renato Sanches is 18 or even less. People are just hating.

How is it a non-story. Do you have any proof that absolutely confirms his DOB?

Football age is the second oldest scam in football afterall.

nateevs:
You are on a tangent here. Let's not turn this page into a historical portal. Everyone knows what happened.

The simple question is, how much success would Jose have had if he managed Bari, Atlanta, Siena, Arezzo and Juve?

Honestly. Tell me.

So how can you profess that spending the millions is irrelevant? Jose has never joined a club, post Porto, that has neither the team nor the resources to win the league.

I mean Pep has won what? 17 trophies in his career? But some quarters still believe the jury is out on him.

Why is that?

The difference between Pep and Jose is that Pep has managed 2 of the best teams globally of the last 20 years. Jose by contrast has managed title contenders.

The difference in standing between Barca\Bayern and Chelsea\Inter\Madrid domestically but especially in Europe is like night and day. Thus the expectations are vastly different.

nateevs:
One major flaw in all of this is that you have assumed - and I don't know where it came from - that my attempt to bring perspective of spending to the argument, is admittance that Conte is better than Jose.

Let me tell you where my assumption came from.

This was dopejemi's question to Bimffo.

dopeJemi:
Hahahaha
If he is more successful than conte, doesn't that make him a better coach?

And this was your response.

nateevs:
Why don't you take a more sensible approach and add up how much each one spent on players, in each season of every club they managed?
When you finish, then you will have understanding
#Perspective

Your post heavily implies that Jose might not necessarily be better than Conte given that Jose has largely outspent Conte throughout their respective careers.

The second flaw is that you assume that I need to be reminded that Jose is easily top 3 title-winning Manager material. I know this.

I don't believe you think that Jose is easily a top 3 title-winning manager. I think you believe Jose is only a top 3 title-winning manager when he SPENDS as exemplified in your quote below:

What you have not considered is this. Can you honestly, without doubt, claim that Jose will win the League in the same season, same event replicated, with the Leicester squad?

And therein lies the crux of your argument. That Jose is somehow incapable of success without a massive wallet to bankroll it. Obviously, the logical conclusion of this post is that, Jose's input to an expensively squad is negligible to the point of almost irrelevance, as the players he signs should be able to win regardless. And this does Jose a great disservice.

Porto were 50/1 to win the UCL in the summer of 2003. That's not quite Leicester's 5000/1, but those are still pretty long odds, and as you will undoubtedly know, bookies fix those kind of odds for a reason.
It's impossible to say Jose would have definitely achieved the same kind of success with Leicester, but it is not inconceivable. Apart from Jose's track record of success with underdogs, the tactical style that Leicester achieved victory with, is one that Jose made popular. The togetherness shown by the Leicester squad is a hallmark of Jose teams. The way Leicester ground out 1-0 wins is almost a Jose Trademark.

By Contrast, Claudio oversaw heavy spending at Chelsea and did not win a pin.Jose came and changed the Story. Spent at Juve and Inter and did not win anything.

So I don't see why not, given the same circumstances, Jose could not achieve a similar level of success with that same Leicester team.

Can you honestly say, without doubt, that Jose will win the league with the last title-winning ManU squad?

Similar to the post above, but this example is even more redundant, because United's title victory relied very heavily on signing an injury prone 29 year old hitman with relatively little resale value to deliver instant success. Sound familiar?

It's not fair to cast aspersion on Jose because he spends heavily. Conte has not done anything that Jose has not done before despite having the highest wage bill and spending over 100m last summer alone. Please respect the don.

nateevs:
Not even Chelsea fans ask me these questions.
If you are asking me these questions, then as I expected, you have not been paying attention on these boards but I digress.


Back to the sensible approach. You are comparing success with two managers when one of them is notoriously popular for spending like it's going out of fashion. I believe in relative success. Like Tinkerman's title winning season with Leicester against back-to-back titles JM won.

So please do the maths, come to the conclusion and stop confusing me with others.

This argument has three major flaws.

1. Implying that spending guarantees success.
2. Implying that succesful managers who spend a lot are somehow inferior to successful managers who spend relatively less.
3. The price a player was purchased for is a reliable indicator of their quality.

Alex Ferguson broke British spending records on several occasions, but it would be foolish to compare Ranieri to him on the basis of 'relative success'

Yet we've seen Arsenal, Liverpool and City spend hundreds of millions in the transfer market over the last few years with relatively little to show for it. On the continent, Real Madrid have been struggling with the same problem.

Even Conte with a team of Juve superstars in a half-dead league was unable to translate domestic dominance to European success.

Ranieri didn't spend much relative to the big boys, but the cheap price tags on the likes of Kante and Mahrez does not indicate that these guys are not some cheap trash. Those two would arguably start at any of the usual top 4 candidates.

Would Ranieri have won the league without Kante, Mahrez, and Vardy? Maybe...but I don't see any big teams linked with the likes of Albrighton and Drinkwater. This suggests to me that Claudio was just as realiant on top4 quality players...he just got then for osho free prices.

Jose has gone everywhere and won. He has won in Europe twice. Granted he spends big money, but which big manager doesn't? Pep has managed two of the best teams in the world and still spent heavily there. Conte has already spent 30+ million sef.

The difference between Jose and others is that he is one of maybe 5 managers in the world that can guarantee success after spending wherever he goes. Pep is about to be tested on this criteria now.

I was happy when Jose was sacked because I felt that he was bringing too much negativity to the club. But I can't deny that Jose is the master.

Comparing Conte to Jose is like comparing Alomo to Grey Goose. It's like comparing chewing stick to Oral B toothbrush.

Jose is the master. You need to recognise that.

Personally, I'm not too fussed about Jose joining United, as I'm pretty invested in the Conte Project. But when Jose is next back at the bridge, I will greet him like most other fans did back in 2010...with affection and respect.

GBR1:
Why did you claim he needs to reinvent himself in the forward positions if he's world class? World class players don't need to do anything like that.

Why did Rooney want to play in midfield instead of as forward? You claim it's easier to play in midfield, right? That means Rooney chose to play where it's easier according to you. So why does Rooney find it harder to play as a forward if he's world class?

Your entire logic is in a loop and you have put yourself in a fix. You've been saying nonsense for a long time.

Elampiro just needs to understand that Rooney's star has faded.

I remember Carragher saying something about Rooney. This guy has been playing football at the very highest level for the past 12 years. Even though his birth certificate says 30, he has the body of a 35 year old man. When you consider that he has had no real serious injury during his career and factor in his lack of fastidiousness when it comes to diet, it's no surprise that his body can no longer perform at the required level

elampiro:
Read it again


WHERE WILL ROONEY PLAY?
“There are many jobs and the one that is more difficult to find is the guy that puts the ball in the net. Players change during the years, their qualities and characteristics. It is normal that a player of his age changes, but something that will never change is the natural appetite to put the ball in the net. Maybe he is not a striker anymore, or a nine, but he will never be a six playing 50 metres from the goal. He will be a nine, a 10, a nine and a half, but not a six or eight."

I think that was a massive hint....

A striker that is "maybe not a striker anymore". A player that is implied to be unable to pass under pressure in deeper positions.

I think even Stevie Wonder can see this one.

It's not enough to have appetite. I have the appetites to bangg two girls 5 times a day for a whole year...doesn't mean I wont die if I tried it.

elampiro:

This is not what Mourinho means. He meant passes are easier in deeper positions.

That same place Rooney made great/sexy passes in Wembley and our last league games is where many have failed to complete simple Square passes in previous games.

Elampiro, that statement was as clear as the gap between Buhari's front teeth.

No need for any twisting and turning on this one.

Paperwhite:
Of course you're rather pained that the SR group have now turned the heat on your nihilist demigod & you his zombified followers.Cry on bro.

Excusez moi?

Mourinho is a savage though...

That quote about Rooney's passing

Why you gotta do your captain like that, Joe?

Where is that Jmaine aka Mr 'git gud'?

God don catch you finally.

I always insisted that Fifa is a broken shambles of a game. If EA can admit(albeit under duress) that Base cards benefit from chemistry boosts whilst upgraded IF cards don't...what else is left unsaid?

I stopped playing fifa16 online early this year for the sake of my health. Best decision I ever made...

Dortmund trolling united

I woke up today feeling like it's Christmas.

I am literally excited to see Conte in action.

Hazard too...at the Euros, he looked close to the player that won the PFA player of the year.

I just need like 2 or 3 stone cold killers In midfield an defence and dazall

gj22:
What does this have to do with Jon snow? How does it show that Jon snow is a bad leader?



He wasn't questioning Jon's leadership. He didn't want his men to die anymore than they already have. You and i can agree that in war, men die from both sides. No matter if you win or lose. He doesn't know about Jon's leadership qualities because he has never seen him lead.



Out of all your points, this is the most moot. You know that not everyone was in support of the Wildlings coming across the wall. Or are you saying Jon snow's decision to bring the Wildlings over was a bad one? Are the nights watch not the same people who killed Jon snow's predecessor? Or did they kill him too because he was a bad leader?



Sorry to say but the only rubbish is coming from your side of the conversation. When you Google something and see a POV then you decide to follow it religiously. Merely the fact that he was elected 2ice as head should already tell you that he is not a bad leader.

My friend shut the fvck up.

I posted my own views and did not try to convince anybody else
For the past 72 hours I keep getting quoted by roaches by yourself, who have neither the individuality to make an original assertion, nor the intelligence to comprehend a holistic argument when you see 1.

My post regarding the red wedding was answering a tangential question that the other guy asked. Are you really so dumb, that you can't realise that this section of my post wasn't talking about Jon?

I actually can't even be arsed to go over the rest of your post for fear that the stupidity contained therein might be contagious.

Nihilist does not beg you for money to buy data. If you see a post you don't agree with, just jump and pass. I get that people interpret things in different ways. I don't really care how you interpret the events on the show, but please if you chose to quote me to attack my own interpretation, don't talk like a spastic.

It's tedious having to read 20+ mentions in less than 24 hours all spouting different shades of the same shyt.

A40:
Wilmots must be a masochist. Who brings on Fellaini when trying to win a game? Also why does he always take so long to bring on Mertens. The mind boggles

This is what I keep saying. That guy is just a dummy. The entire Belgium pattern was so predictable with Hazard and KDB only passing to each other. Playing Carrasco over Mertens is yet another shocker.


Well they're out now so...

GBR1:
I know these tactics very well. You're hoping i would go away after you say this?

You should be ashamed of yourself. I always thought you were tougher than this. You enjoy replying the folks you can bully into submission easily. If you weren't being disgraced every time i took you on, i know you'll still be quoting me by now. You know how this will end up and that's why you're always on the run away from me. Coward

I have told you already that I would quote or reply you whenever i feel like(there's no rule/law against that) and nothing you say would ever change that. Maybe if you started saying less sh1t, i would spend less time replying you.

Ahh so you and your Manyoo guy just want to get in that dayos azz, quick fast like Ramadan?

Dayo your days of epl bashing are officially over. If Airmark was a one man mopol fighting your anti-epl bigotry, these ones are interpol.

Ti e ba e.

Dadehmola:
A team dominated by EPL players is in the semis - God help you If Germany fails to qualify tomorrow.

Oh i forgot - Germany won a trophy recently so they can be excused if they crash out.

You see your life?

I swear I just dey laugh for here..

Dayo I hope you have your lace lingerie on.
Demola is coming for you

Dadehmola:
Aha - I can see that Mr Ramuzaki has carried on with his fòolishness here again..

Egbon - è tì wá gòh gáán lenujò mètá yì oh!

What kan faa??

Ah Monsieur Dadehmola we've been expecting you.

Your usual suite has been prepared, and raumdeuter has already gone upstairs to slip into something more comfortable...

As always, we have stored your 'implements' in the usual place. They have been oiled up, geared, vibrated, had their batteries replaced, and are ready for immediate use.

Do enjoy your stay sir.

losprince:
Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..



Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning


Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.



He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place


You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.


Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.


GOOD

It really irritates me how so many people have been quoting me to chat the weakest bollocks. If you made decent points, I would even concede, but your smug arrogant post is really based on nothing but an attempt to play around semantics.

Even when I quote the characters verbatim, it's not enough.

Glover said he didn't send any more men to the starks because Robb got himself and his men killed, and that's true. The red wedding happened because Robb reneged on a deal - a decision that his more politcally savvy mum and advisers warned would have serious consequences.

Before the broke the deal, Robb was warned. During the wedding itself , Lord Frey explains his motives for the murders. After the wedding, Glover blames Robb.

I cannot for the life of me understand how any right thinking person would try to even argue that point.


Again, Jon goes to Manderly to ask for men. Manderly refuses because he feels that if he sends his men with Jon, they will die for nothing. Again, I cannot see how this does not connote questioning of jon's Judgement. A leader says come with me, you refuse, but you're not questioning his leadership? You say Manderly is merely "skeptical". Check your dictionary for the meaning of that word, and you will find that it is 'synonymous' with the word 'questioning'!

The discussion with Lyanna is probably the clearest argument there. Jon came to ask for men for his own battle against Ramsay and got shut down quick. It was only when Davos raised the spectre of the white walkers coming for then all, that she decided to join them.

How can Aliser poison the minds of a group of subordinates against a leader that they trust? How? How?

Mate the post you quoted was not addressed to you. And if you have opposing views, then by all means share them on the thread. But please don't quote me to post such utter rubbish. Please don't waste my time.

raumdeuter:
The main man for Wales play in real Madrid unlike in Belgium whose main guys are in the EPL

SO Wales for tonight is the lesser evil as I wait for Portugal and Sanches to run riot on them

Main man today was Ramsey and he plays for Arsenal.

And all these guys came from EPL.

chic2pimp:
Nah Denmark won it in 92. Can they go all the way? Why not?

Ref has definitely had a stinker tonighy. Ramsey is out of the SF. Oh boy that's not good.

Seen.

Ramsey will definitely be missed in the semis mehn.

See Naingollan. Abeg this blonde haired punk should just pam in Italy there.

raumdeuter:
3-1

ANother EPL laden team named Belgium now on their way out

Disgraced by Wales

Chelseafan1 this is what happens when Hidden Pius Ikedia is made captain

But Wales is also an EPL laden team...

Is this a defence?


I think the welsh commentator just came though..his voice sounded verrrry suspicious

Denayer is a clown.

Goallllll!!!!!

Oh he's on now

In your face Nihilist.

chic2pimp:
Alright then.....Can they do a Denmark?

They've already equalled Denmark.

Belgium losing a knockout game 2-1, 10 minutes to go and our 33 million man is still on the bench.

Not looking good.

This ref has had a shocker today

chic2pimp:
Can wales do a Greece?

Nope. Wales are actually playing football!

raumdeuter:
You wan pretend say you no see as your Jambody baller dey waste chances

He's actually only had one real chance by my count, and yes he missed it. I was just about to mention it though. For someone so tall, Romelu is actually quite mediocre in thr air.

I guess his legs aren't strong enough to generate enough power to lift his substantial bulk high enough.

Wilmots is a clown though. How can you play Naingollan at 10? You play someone who can't even pass the courvosier in a creative role, and wonder why your striker cant see ball to kick ?