₦airaland Forum

^^^ Worse than that, it provides a way out.

Who can prove the usher was "called"?

Who can prove he wasn't "called"?

So it goes back to "claims"

What a day on this thread. Encouraging suprises from a number of new friends made it quite nice. But Nuclearboy said the real wolves would soon be out with emotion based responbses that show no truth but work well with degenerates and "babes" and no suprises there - they came out in force.

@Mabell:

You say I always insult or was it use abusive language in EVERY post? Is that supposed to make you feel good as I stated earlier? Well, my dear madam, go kneel before your pastor and tell him you are a liar and need special prayers from him. Twill make no difference though cos its God you ought to go before!

Could you please go back to my first post on THIS thread where I wished your pastor a happy birthday and show me ONE insult there? If you cannot, shame on you. Maybe you were again using Joagbaje's computer and the "Angel" of that system took over your hands. But Angels don't lie, do they? Which would mean its a demon. Sad (for you). BTW, Liars steal. Thieves fornicate. Fornicators kill. Murderers and the demon possessed do NOT go to heaven. Whether they are pastors or their girlfriends is immaterial to God!

How's that for insultive language? Lame considering that if it was Jesus, He'd have told you you were a self-righteous hypocrite, a polished coffin containing rotting multiple dead bodies and a generation of Vipers. And if you say thats wrong, open a Bible and read Jesus Words, not that ROR you hold above God's Word.

@Jo:

You said you've never lied on this Forum. One example - You told us you were just an artist, making money from art. Till it was discovered you were actually a Pastor. But that wasn't a lie, abi? It was just a deliberate "sharp" omission because it didn't concern anyone what your motive was trying to convince everyone that Pastors don't gain when people give them money because their "anointing" makes it good!!!   Anyway, you're a christian and so don't have the sinners nature and so cannot sin even if you sin and you are god as well, abi?

PS (1) You could disprove us and dare to tell how many paintings you've sold. NOTE: Please don't lie like Mabell above - too easy to spot.

@MyJoe:

Brilliant analysis. Keeping quiet in the face of evil is tantamount to tacit support. He knows what is right based on what the Scriptures state. The buck stops at his table. He is wrong, no matter how you want to look at it.

@Zikky:

Let us be grateful for Maddock, Vivian.SA and those who read quietly, think and assess what we write. None of us is "good" as Jesus said but at least they sat down, read, listened and found honesty inside themselves.

The mistake still remains our audience not understanding that the thrust of "issues" raised against their pastor comes from the word of God.

[1] Where the Apostles lived each day as though they would die that day and thus never cared for money, the MOG is building an empire, consolidating it etc. Yet Christ said "where your fortune is, you heart will be". I guess Jesus did not know enough and so was lying where it concerns Chris Oyakilome.

[2] The Apostles lived lives of Holiness, discipline and self denial. Todays MOGs indulge, are sensual, vain and pleasure seeking. Lets be sincere with ourselves people - most of us would call this pastor homosexual if he were not well known just for his hair in Nigeria. Vanity, yet his heart is in heaven?

[3] The Apostles of Christ took offerings for the poor amongst them. Those were their "problem". Today, our MOGs take FROM those poor and then we are told they are giving it to another set of "poor" outside. AMAZING. So you take from your own internal family and use it to feed outsiders, ehn? Meanwhile, the Bible we follow curses such people who have not yet "settled" their own home but settle even the church.

Its all a travesty of understanding placed against emotion and a feel-good" mentality. But at least now, we know people have ears. But Jo will come skillfully (as you have said) now and scatter everything on the altar of distraction, confusion and flabbergast all. The single digit post gallery is already manifesting to obfuscate issues on the altar of "touch not my anointed". It is a chorus we know well on NairaLand!

Where is Maddock?

@Uche:

You said no "mature" Christian in CE will come and senselessly defend pastor chris. What has Jo done above? Or is he too a "babe"?

He finds nothing to say so he says those who left off following Jesus WILL say wrong about him. Is that so? Where/when did they say bad of him or is that revelation knowledge too? Are the circumstances (if he can dream them up) the same? How has he done anything except PROVE that what Petres said is totally true?

Then he changes it to MANIPULATIVE TACTICS will help them "challenge" their faith, poverty and lack mentality. Sure, like your murderer challenges you to go to Heaven, right? And of course, it is NEVER to enrich anyone except the person sacrificing even though it is Jo and pastor chris that drive the biggest cars in your congregation and travel at will and send kids to the best schools etc. And the "petres'es" are getting "broker and broker"  Chei, for someone to think others can be so stupid! The gall of it!

Notice finally that even that seems shallow to him so what does he do? He changes it into emotion - Why? Why are you judging? He is another man's servant? Wetin be una own? All Jo has to do to finish this Nollywood movie is cry a little.

So we go from suggesting/forcing stories of people abusing Jesus into the Pshyche if not the Bible -- to manipulation has its uses and pastor uses it for the best to people will gain from it, not pastor ---- to its not your concern.

Guys, your problem is the people defending you? They are actually attacking your credibility. And when I think of the post above, I cannot help but wonder at your pastor chris - if Jo and co are the best he can do for image laundering, mehn, him self get heavy problems.

@Enigma:

I think they are looking at motive and believe his motives are clean and that is what matters. Tells you just how prophetic Maddock was in saying these are "youths". They're obviously babes in Christ if that is the reasoning. And it is.

There is "element of doubt" in EVERYTHING in a human's life. Pastors lives are not different.

My understanding of THIS priesthood is simple. ALL Christians are priests. Jesus Christ is the High Priest.

Taken another way - This is a human being standing - the MAN God designed. Jesus is the head, you are the 5th bone on the backbone, Pastor Chris is the right hand, I am the arsehole and Kunle is the knee cap. Please tell me - which one is most important?

If I vex for the rest of you and I stop working, do you realise you're in serious wahala? Naim be say door don catch una for hand be that? Or as my boy would say "Scoba don hold you". I tell people that the beauty of the Bible is in its simplicity and all the noise about Greek translations etc is rubbish. God is more dynamic than we know and allows each find truth in the words they are exposed to. Adam was the "tend-master" of God's garden. He cleaned, watered, directed, judged. He was a solutions provider. Jesus did the same and solved problems - the 2nd Adam. We are to be conformed to him and so it is laudable that your pastor wants to solve problems. But NOT by harnessing people. Adam was to SUBDUE the EARTH. Men are to subdue the earth and not other men. I know 2 Billionaires on this forum and they made their money and one gives what you wouldn't believe to the poor. He doesn't carry tv cameras or media announcements to these places and these monies were earned, not donated or collected or levied or whatever. So whats the noise, please, if we want to be harsh and hold truth WITHOUT emotion? Whats the shakara? Do it and leave it - don't announce or make yourself look/feel good - thats what the Pharisee did "I do good", "I'm not like that woman" etc!

Please consider the understanding of the above in light of this "Pastors are special" matter and remember - it is SOME OF THESE miracle workers IN JESUS Name that He said he'd tell He NEVER EVER EVER knew and that they were workers of INIQUITY.

Have the greatest day you've had in your life today, brother.

I leave you with this (which carries a great understanding beneath it) -> A poor man sat begging outside a temple. "In the name of Bhagwan give this hungry man some money to fill his belly" he cried. "Bhagwan will bless you." But the devotees gave him very little. In disgust the beggar left thetemple and sat outside a country liquor shop. "A few paise in the name of Bhagwan," he whined. As customers came out of the shop in high spirits (mainly drunk and feeling good), many dropped rupee notes in his bowl. Thanking God, the beggar said: "Hey Bhagwan, truly inscrutable are thy ways! You give one address but you live in another."

@Maddock:

Note I am talking to YOU and have not abused/reviled/poked fun at your pastor once. Na because you get sense!

What does that tell you about your people? Did you see Nuella say "there is nothing she cannot do for HIM" on THIS thread? When last did you see her say that concerning Jesus? Did you notice Image123 and others frowned at that? Why? Its "insane", "funny", idolatrous".

It is that behavior that makes people look too closely and abuse your pastor.

I get your point but you are still not looking at the other side of the coin.

Doing good is ALWAYS good. But it does not cross out perceptions or cancel out wrong-doing. I would rather than offer the guy in the story above education and a new car, try to find out the mindset that made him steal a million to buy a car. That was peer pressure, - "others are using and I want to use". That is fleshiness. Where does that come from? Is that what he is supposed to be thinking of as a christian? Is it the preaching he has been exposed to that makes him look at the secular/temporal rather than the spiritual? As a christian, ought he not have inculated values of patience, etc. So I forgive him. Great.

A Man of God looks unto heaven. Others are here making noise about prosperity, good health, dominion. As the jamaican saying - everyone wants to go to Heaven but no one wants to die. The example we see in Scripture are of people who believed they were ready now now and they lived it everyday. Why are we building empires here? Is that the same Spirit? Sure, we all work and all wish comfort but there is a limit to how far we ought go in search of it.

Let me tell you something which many will not believe - I watch your pastor and listen to his sermons. They're good. He teaches wealth/success/etc almost as well as Sam Adeyemi who is absolutely brilliant. Those two helped make me very successful financially and can help anyone to understand secrets to "prosper". But then WHAT?

Na money God say make we come fight for here? Is it money that shows Gods Glory especially in light of the Jamaican saying above? Then why didn't the Apostles teach and fight for money? Is he/me/you serving a different God?

[size=14pt]LOL at your questions above[/size]! Nairaland knows me - I will poke fun of the person that he will hate his/her life. Thats my answer and let me make one confession - many times, its a joke and just meant to make you rethink not really abuse. E.g., I like Jo but I don't like people lying or twisting scripture

Anyway, if the person is also abusing OUR father at times and those times, I keep quiet and only speak when it is you (senior brother) that they abuse, then it is MOST LIKELY I have a bad or zero relationship with our father. People will then have the right to abuse you and say you (as a senior brother) should have (knowing the respect I have for you) ensured a good relationship between me and OUR father. Comprehende? That is the CEC problem. Good relationship with the "wrong" person and bad with the REAL "right" person. And even atheists have commented on it to me outside NL. Its Chris, NEVER Christ!

EDITED (WAS ON THE FONE BEFORE)

I'm impressed to see a member of CE talking like you. You bring to the fore the 'humanity' of the man and use that to make me feel Yes, truly, he is a man and like the rest of us, he has his own issues. All the things I stated above mean NOTHING to ordinary men but its your people that have turned Chris Oyakilome to a god and so, the standards that will be used for him are those used for gods.

If you go through my earliest posts on this forum (concerning CEC), you will find only puzzlement and never at him. I remember wondering why when Christ was being maligned by atheists and muslims, other christians would rise to defend but once anyone called pastor chris, your members would be up in arms and these are never consistent posters. They almost all have single/double digit posts ALL aimed at defending him. Before you can say A B C, you hear the mantra - 'the kingdom is marching on', 'you cannot stop us' etc. Lets be sincere since you said God not man - is it Christ or Pastor Chris your people should be fighting for? In WHAT/WHO is their hope? Is it the size of the church that shows it is doing well? Or the QUALITY of members as expressed in their lives whether youths or not?

That travesty of existence called NewMumu - can you show me one defence of Christ he EVER got involved in? Which is why I said the followers may be the problem. They defend him rather than Christ and to defend him, will lie, twist scripture and usually end up annoying everyone. In anger, people direct their anger at your pastor, who they have turned to god, knowing that is what will pain them. But they don't stop. Rather they worsen it and make it seem cultish. So people look, find and expose.

Read my posts on THIS Thread. I wished and still wish him a happy birthday. I then prayed JUDGMENT be that of God. Did I judge him? No! Then I commented on the likely truth of your testimony and how that (while good) has to still be taken with caution because there are other things that matter more than miracles. I also commented how his members are probably the ones making him look bad. Did you see the response by that donkey brain? I am jealous and envious. I have not knowledge. From this piece of genetic garbage that does nothing here except support man? Can you show me a conversation he had that shows a brain not working for or solely tuned to pastor chris? If that is what we find in his supporters, pray tell - does it not reflect on his pastoral qualities? To train people into becoming like Newmumu? Would you be proud to be like that?

I got angry but your own reasonable praise of God rather than man showed me there still remain brains in CEC. And note, its not like me and you have been friends. So why did I see sense in you? Because its NOT CEC but the individuals that will show quality, truth and understanding.

Watch wait and lets see their response soon and you'll get our point.

I do not agree with the prosperity thing because where your wealth is is where your mind will be but the real judging comes because your people make him look greater than mankind. Therefore, it is only natural he'll be judged with higher than normal value systems.

See the difference? The dude I initially wrote to shows himself to be of a differing cadre than the asswipe who responded. Here is a man who knows another man is NOT the focus but God.

Which is why I say maybe the man is NOT as bad as people paint him. But as long as low IQ people keep jumping mouth first and making noise where even angels fear to tread, people will think its your pastor chris that is training you like that.

Strange. I'm calling him "pastor" instead of just chris. Why? At least today, I see someone affiliated to him who makes me feel there is hope. But I know the Dense Battalion will soon show up to try to show him as "god" again. You people could at least have found mentally capable people so this cult thingy would be reduced.

But no hala abi - "we are marching on and millions are being touched"! Abi?

"Baggage of jealousy and pride"?? This dumb-clown has a nerve - jealous of what?

A. The "good name" he has?
B. His "successful" marriage?
C. The accusations that he "stage manages" miracles?
D. The "jerry curls" on a man's head when the Living Bible asks even women to clothe themselves with modesty, not vanity?
E. The fact that his members are "known, revered and celebrated" for fornication, empty noise and love-peddling?
F. The fact that YOURSELF, his supporter, always ends up getting the dude insulted because his vanity made him train you to lose your brain? And that implied in your words is the hatred and insecurity that rules your life - for you WARN WARN WARN hoping something bad happens  to one of us so you can feel good that your 'tin-god' has manifested his 'anointing'. That is your love, ba? Well, F you.

And I could find more reasons for this idiotic jealousy. Anyways dude, Nothing will happen to anyone telling the truth except you behave like your ancestors and show your murderous nature. Its you idolaters that will hide your Faces in shame soon.

In the meantime, try decide the reason for my "envy, jealousy etc" from the list of GREAT things about your master above and tell me.

Dead brain.

^^ I thought of about 3 morons before I deliberately wrote the above TO Maddock and any others who have a brain they actually utilize. My fear was that idol worship would make the 3 morons misunderstand and come out flailing stupidly and what do we have?

You come out calling me what? Enemy, critic! You say I am displaying ignorance of the scripture, Etc. You just showed again that your brain is as sharp as the flat wall of a door and about as effective as that door-flat used as a knife by a 2 year old,

idolater - did you ever read Jesus own words that "His own should call no man Father, esteem no man specially and have no master on earth". He was looking at the Pharisees (Paul by the way, whist being an Apostle had the background of being one of those) and talking to His OWN when He explained that all humans are brothers under one Father and under one Master. Paul, thinking of the true greats (people who left fortune, fame, work, family), said "esteem these people" - cos wetin dem dey do no easy. BUT you want to weigh Christ's Words against those of Paul because you've been trained like a little doggie to support at all cost? Do you wish to compare your otherwise pauperly masters who are today Billionaires because of their gospel to Paul, Peter, Stephen etc who left and lost ALL for the Gospel? Can you see the "opposing" comparision?

Anyway, what exactly is wrong with you that you follow me around dogging my steps? Do you dream of me daily? Avoid me if you have nothing except man worship to offer. Or go back and step up your whining and pleading that nuclearboy be banned.

But never believe the crap you're forcefed in ROR can come near the honesty and beauty of the scripture. To understand the scripture, remove "profit" from your head. OR show us one of the messengers of God who became RICH by being a "pastor". Do not attempt to call Abraham/David/etc. I said Pastor/Prophet (all the Timothys and Paul you like to lie about), not kings/businessmen! That will make you understand motive - true "ministers" of God leave out THIS World and look up to the next. When you have got that into your thick skull, you will start to get understanding. Its not about miracles OR crowds OR being a fine BOY. OR oratory prowess and charisma. It is about where your HEART (and treasure) is. A man of God is with God. A fleshy person seeks cash and secular power.

Anyways, I wrote to those who can reason not you who has been brained by a swinging door

@Maddock:

Nice testimony and God witness I have NO reason to disbelieve you.

But do you believe miracles and healings counter or cross out Holiness and a life dedicated to seeking Heaven? Have you forgotten Christ said He will tell Miracle workers who believed they were His people that He never knew them? Do you think these people Christ is talking of are Herbalists in our midst or pastors/prophets/apostles/etc? Or would you say Christ didn't know what He was saying?

I personally find only this distasteful - the overtly extensive unholy "upliftment" of a man. THAT position of "He's great in this generation etc" is likely the problem you guys have yourself caused for him.

Allegations against him and the prosperity issue are secondary. The main problem you (and he) have is you all have turned him into something more than Man. Support Christ, not Chris!

T-T:

My understanding is that ALL men are fallible and I will not condemn them for that. But where someone tries to make themselves larger than life, special and above others, we will use their own conception of themselves to judge them. Sort of like "with the merciful, I will be merciful etc". But I'm not here to argue with you.

The "judgment", "condemn" thing - you it is who got it wrong since I was stating why OTHERS seemed suprised at your post. My own suprise was to see you sober about this matter and for that, Iasked clarification. Now you have explained, its ok.

Mad_Max remains one of the most brilliant posters on NL. I still find it difficult to imagine her under 92 years old.

And that "directed" jibe about externalities and faces is all too true. Sadly, most will not get the point. Holy in church, raising hands as though clasping God by the gonads, smiling beatifically as though Christ in His Glory is asking you out and yet underneath, dirtier than sin and more worthless than the old 1 naira note.

I hope the man had a happy birthday. I cannot deny him that.

My prayer for him is that God has towards him the measure of love that he in his turn, has to the average person in his congregation and that God manifest that love openly in the presence of all mankind to God's Glory.

Meanwhile petres, you don wound me with laughter here!

@Maddie our love:

What emotion would you call that He had that made Him bring out the whip?

@Inesqor:

This is a scam you ought understand better. How else do you think they get ahead aside discrediting the true and truth itself?

Oga comes on the boat all smooth and oily, a friend of everyone, dripping soothing speech liberally splashed with poison and I stand against him. He steps aside and an offline (out of normal sight) acolyte comes in to needle me. He too gives subtle jibes. I get angry and they scream - "Anger - not the fruit of the Spirit". I say "Christ was angry" and they say "are you christ?" and say I am proud. And Oga comes back smelling fresher and condescendingly informs that I am NOT good and only him and yaks are.

Please leave the anger to those of us who took the bait early. Or they will discredit you - that is their target and they have honed the art their ancestors designed to an art form

Remember - you fight for truth! They fight for food - standard ops practice. Its almost difficult to blame someone fighting for his tummy. Truth on the other hand, sucks for most.

Peace

@Tonye:

I too wonder at your naming Adeboye, Oyakilome, Oyedepo above and asking who takes over when they go the way of other men.

The impression you give normally on Nairaland is as though these people are infallible and speak FOR and AS God. Tithes, oya. 1st fruits - oya. Only to our hands - oya. Even today, Kunle started off a thread on Oyaks birthday and you were quick to be aggresive. That usually makes you seem like you "follow" them. Read that as "worship them" and please understand it is not an insult but just the way it looks. I might be wrong but I wager thats what almost everyone here thinks.

But the impression your thread (this one) gives is totally different and is as though you realise that many happenings in these churches and in these men's lives are wrong, show them as only human and NOT special.

I think the contradiction is what kunle and zikky are wondering at. I have seen you show remarkable insight at times (aside a really good humor) but remain puzzled at the fluctuations. Today - na MOG, tomorrow na God! Which one you hold, bro?

1. Well, Jo SAYS him and Yaks are called and nothing concerns you OR God with that. Hold your own money and let others bring theirs. Abi wetin concern you with love for others?

2. NO, no, No! As long as you are charismatic, able to convince people to bring their money and can fill their heads with fantasies of hope, you are the only Priest and man of God in town. Others MUST be mere followers of your august self

Perfect. You got me

They forget Pharaoh was NOT allowed to repent. The reason is clear if you wish to know truth. The end of such is usually their worst nightmare come to life

Which was why I researched him - I too wondered. My findings disgusted me and the little I showed obviously scared them.

I wonder if people truly know what a desire for truth mixed with professional web knowledge can unearth

@Enigma: The congregation (except for a very few) do NOT want to hear truth. What they want is superglue - a fast fix. The wolves capitalize on that desire to get things the easy way and twist to please. They are victims of greed playing to a willing gallery.

You thought he was honest? Bro, I'm laughing here - do you know who Jo is and his responsibilities at CE vis the Internet? A foundation built on lies and manipulation plus what he stands to lose financially is TO HIM, too much. He has no recourse but to earn his pay, truth be damned. He knows the truth and don't ever doubt it. But we're on Nairaland and there are rules on disclosure.

At times like this, the man worshippers disappear - even them have enough shame to keep away and ignore such as the above. I wish Image123 was around here to tell us about poison laminated and displayed.

How do you answer such unrepentant wickedness? Is it even possible to answer what is so blatantly obviously a deliberate lie from Satan's own mouth? So only pastors etc should strive to be perfect, and furnished to good works. And with 1 Tim 6 as stated above, only them ought strive for righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Other christians can do whatever? ? ?

And we complain the society is turning Atheist. Why shouldn't it with these being the face of Christianity? Satan lives/sleeps/eats at the altar of these people's lives.

raised to the power of Wonderment! See as persin dey change God Word because of Naira. So every scripture is given to ministers ALONE!  No wonder the book of erRORs was manifested - these people don't even care anymore. They are so sure of their newmumus that they can say anything and get away with it. Bondage confirmed.

@eyzhvntsn

[size=5pt]What I wouldn't give to be able to spell this your username without copying it. Wonder if the Gray isn't moving from outside to inside nowadays[/size]

FYI, Paul was Apostle, Pastor, Prophet, even Primate. Did you forget we are under "Pauls dispensation as Apostle to the Gentiles and salvation has been withdrawn from the Jews"  Please don't annoy the MOG. He has recently told us his anointing can kill O.

^^ Dude will tell you Paul and Peter were both "Apostles" and had the calling. Since our names are not in the Bible (I suppose chris is there as Christ), we have no right especially when it comes to Naira, Dollars and Pounds - those are reserved for MOGs

^^ Aunty:

Thanks a milllion. Aside from making my day by saying hi, you just provided an option for a username if the WIMPS get the mods to believe I deliberately showed Jo-boy up. All of dem together no complete one anyway.

NUCLEARITY - I absolutely love it.

@Inesqor:

Please edit the part in your post that mentions WOF. You are giving him a way out as rather than address the issues raised, he'll now come up with a very lenghty thesis on how christianity is Word of Faith which means you're not walking aright etc en-tedium en-stupidium (I'm designing a new lingo) whist totally avoiding the issue.

@Toba:

Sincerely. I said he is the most RELIGIOUS person here. RELIGION of course, is different from being a Christian. So why not?

I wish my vote counted for him.

And where are the MOG worshippers to defend this pig's blunders?

As general as he tried to make it, he had no choice but to authenticate himself by making direct assertions and now, we see the stated falling on their faces.

There is one Holy Spirit but He has different Graces, anointings and abilities?

Am I the only one who read that? So the HS operating in London knows how to play the guitar more than the Scotland version and the Naija one is anointed for making money and the Russian one knows how to drink tea more? Or what is this rubbish? If they are the same, they are the same everywhere. By the way, the Holy Spirit is God. Sins against Him too are particularly dangerous

Calling into office and in the same ability? YES, this is true. Not everyone is called into the only office you believe matters - pastoring! Some are called to minister love, others finance, yet others knowledge and wisdom. The pastor is not more important than any of the above just as he is not more important than prophets, evangelists or Apostles.

It is one "man"s body - Christ's and you will have to explain scripturally and logically how Christ's hand is more important than His heart or legs or whatever. Which is where you miss it - the fact that some members are hidden and not on display always does not make them less important. Interestingly, the Bible itself says this.

^^ Danke! Brilliant as usual .

EDITED - Or "Worshippers Imitating Money-mad Pastors".

Any which way, the 'glory' is MyJoes

Sad to see mabell comparing Jesus ministry on earth to Paul/Us. See why you ought read the Bible and not commentaries on it?

Jesus was "sent" to Israel. After His sacrifice, came a dispensation whereby there no longer any separation between jew and gentile. What you have today is children of God and NON children of God. But THAT separation can only be made in absoluteness by God, not us.

To us, Christ died for ALL and ALL are His. Thus, preferential treatment is "?r#-:@" - wrong. We are not God