₦airaland Forum

PG1 or is it PG13,
Get a life dude and a job so you can stop this hustle, there still is redemption and life after scamming innocent folks for a while, the only cure for jargon is honesty.
Nothing so quickly kills a person as the publicity they give themselves. An old women is always uncomfortable when dry bones are mentioned in a proverb we read from Chinua Achebe's things fall apart, same thing that will happen to your hustle. Here is a link to one of the doyens of your chosen field, enjoy

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3464521n

omase ooooooo!

I mentioned anything about Sen. Grassley fighting tithes?
When something is missing from some folks' life, they've got to find a way to compensate for the obvious void. I pity the fool that will not research things for themselves rather than join the chorus in this ignoble choir, I would rather not drink this haterade as I've got better things to do. have a nice life and I pray you find happiness while at it NL queen.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=113108.msg3977538#msg3977538 date=1244134321]@ogajim,

What really is your problem? If you're here to be made sport of, it'll be good being entertained by your desperations - although you're not the first to lose sense in your self-defeatist attitude.

Nope, I wasn't offended, so don't start off with such a cheap self-applause. It's ridicculous to try to deny the very thing you have done - is that how people take things around you with such vacuous minds? The queries I left you are pointers for the point I made about your shameless conceit, which predictably you didn't address. Instead you crawled back to slurp up the same harrumph you've spilt.

I don't see how that says anything intelligent about you. I've repeatedly made clear that 'giving' is not a salvific issue - others have read it, no one has fainted about it, and you're the only one who's been singing solo about money and 10% to buy and secure the grace of Christ. Then you keep foaming in the mouth when it's obvious your assertions are leaking.



Hahaha!! Em, excuse me . . . but how does Iowa and Sen. Grassley come into the discussion?  Like I said, no hard feelings; but poor Grassley most probably would be bemussed to be the diving board for a discussion he has no clue about! M-e-n, this is classic. Wetin really dey bite you for body wey you dey mention "the thief"? Please tell us: did something hit you so with a hard-to-recover tragic loss that all these unrelated drool just seems to occupy you all day? My condolences in advance, sha.[/quote]Condolences
And this is from a "christian?

Sen. Grassley was the only one with enough balls to challenge the hustlers of the gospel here and the subpoenas will be flying soon in case you have been too busy looking for tithe preserving scriptures to notice. Look it up dude!
It is unchristian to learn something and keep it to your self, this hustle must be stopped. Folks at the very least need to know that is is not required regardless of what those fake "men of God" preaches to them.
Enigma, you are correct it is rampant here even before PTL came to light and all the stuff that followed, the troubling thing is that Nigerian "pastors" have taken that and we all know what happens when naija folks get involved, they take it to a never before seen level which is what we are dealing with today.
I kid you not that I heard this a couple of weeks ago in a naija church " A bus was stopped by armed robbers who then proceeded to separate the passengers based on those that pay tithe and those that don't and their leader told the folks that said they didn't pay tithe they were going to get robbed because they have been robbing God all along", kids might fall for that kind of nonsense, the only way I believe that crap is if you confirm to me that the leader of the bandits was a "pastor" who is doing his second job.

I don't blame these hustlers at all, I blame the folks that fall for the cheap hustle.

Shamelessly [quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=113108.msg3977067#msg3977067 date=1244130023]You don't have to shamelessly be so dubious. What did tithers do to you before you called them 'pharisees'? What did tithers do to you before calling them "stupid"? Do you really feel a need to protect your self-righteousness that you have to be so shameless and cowardly on top of it all? Your conceit is unimaginable.[/quote]WOW
I had no intention of touching a nerve there so excuse me if you were offended by those words and like I said, I have proof and continue to see this distortion regularly and I don't see a reason why I can't stand up to these hustlers if no one else will. I don't need validation of any kind nor do I need to make money off poor folks in the name of salvation. God sees all things and will vindicate his children. No hard feelings at all.
I am a faithful servant who continues to learn and not above any one, I can't speak on what obtains in the UK, EU or even Nigeria though I have been in some of those places enough times to almost pay local taxes because I can't understand it better than someone who lives it on a daily basis. It is an insult to question what I see or have seen since you don't live it, have the same set of resources or access for that matter. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere MLK taught us so they need to find real jobs rather than dupe innocent folks with non existent scriptures they bend to suit their whims.
I would vote for Sen. Grassley if I were from Iowa for at least trying to investigate some of the local nonsense but we can't expect same from naija since they all hang out together now can we?
Everyday for the thief but one day for the owner of the house/farm, odikwa very very risky my people!

@Pastor

Romantic Ideology is what they call it

They will find all the ways in the book to defend their hustle.

Alright Dr PG.1

I didn't even go to school and I will let you be the queen of NL, I see others have started to ignore you and maybe I should take a Que from the veterans as well being a newbie and it is funny how arm chair therapists can see across the virtual spectrum and come to educated conclusions.
Run your scam any how you see fit but the ones around me remain endangered because I have a very low tolerance for this kind of BS you guys sell to the innocent folks who left home in search of education/greener pastures only to be cornered by the same breed that spoiled the country for everyone in the first place.
This is just the beginning of the end for the fakes who are hellbent on enriching themselves at the expense of the gospel, I don't need to start a thread at all, when time permits, I'll do more than just that.
You really need a life if you think degrading folks here on clumsy excuses makes your day, we will keep you in our prayers so you can see the light one day. The first casualty in any war is truth which is hard to come by when it comes to the looters/scammers and the like and I do have a right not to be part of that nonsense os beat it and get a real life dude

No one attacked those who tithe, all we said was that it was not necessary since Jesus himself said there were "weightier matters" but if they see someone trying to block their hustle, they come out swinging, not mad at you at all.
Little wonder Nigeria is the way it is, omase ooo!

shalom.

PG.1

I don't need to justify myself to you or any of your ilk, keep milking the "cash cow" from those who don't know any better and I will continue to do what I have always done to remain successful. One wonders though if you are one of them since you can't see beyond your nose from your high horse.
this is a topic that you haven't contributed any cogent reason for independent thinkers as to why this old law (which continues to line the pockets of those who hustle the gospel) should continue other than pick issues with those that opposes your outdated doctrine.
Good reasons must of force give room for better so if you don't have the scriptural backing other than "same old same old", it is better to shut your trap unless you can advance superior argument to back up your claims.
I am your basic amicus curiae here and have no horse in this race, I know what I do and why I do it and my conscience allows me to do that ( unlike Awo, I don't have a monopoly of conscience)
Cookie cutter solutions don't work in the secular World let alone in Christianity, if I were a veteran of message boards, I probably would've seen it coming but hey, we learn as we go and I ain't mad at you, do your thing baby girl.
God bless.

I am sorry for using the word "stupid" if that's offensive to anyone but that word is not too far from "ignorance" that I have seen in some of your stuff but then again who is counting?
People are wired to react to what they see around them and when you see too much of a bad practice among some of these "churches", it is hard not to think that if it quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. From what I see here, those Nigerian churches and their stat sheet of parishes/branches is nonsense because the only folks that worship there are Nigerians for the most part and a sprinkle of spouses and friends so their claim of spreading the gospel to other countries is bogus at best ( I might be castigated for going off subject here)
If you have not walked on someone's shoes it is hard to criticize their views unless you've been there your self, the Nigerian charismatic/pentecostal churches are fast becoming like their government so it is hard to find something to celebrate there with cult personalities and other trappings we didn't see from Jesus Christ our savior.
I am not saying the American churches of the same flavor are any better, it is an endemic problem that has to be addressed, I see a lot of them as hustlers to tell you the truth, the lips of the righteous does teach us many,
I would not deride anyone for doing what they feel is right but I am entitled to my opinion which I don't need to shove down someone's throat.
I will love to see how many Nigerian churches make their financial information available to all rather than a " financial committee" loaded with yes men/women. Even if we were of the same parents, it is not automatic that we will agree on everything so this is not a make it or break it debate. I have a close friend in the UK whose former pastor went to jail after the church was investigated, after his release, he started another church (LTD) and some folks followed him to the new (company?) church so to each his own.
I speak enough languages to know that the English is a generic language so i don't need any tutoring there, stupid in that sense at least implies that the receiver has a brain.
I see PG.1 is a veteran on here with a lot of posts to your credit so I will stop right here and take a sit behind the batting cage so I don't get hit by fly balls.

I am a strong believer in loose coupling and could care less what others are doing with what belongs to them. I went to an Anglican elementary school and a Catholic high school and don't see a need to shoot indiscriminately unless I feel a need to. I could have chosen not to contribute to this like I did with the "pastors and body guards" thread which is hilarious on it's own but this is something I have seen too much of in all flavors.
We are all equal before God and when a church get's hierarchical, it's time to move because it is not too far from a cult and in terms of financial transparency, PG.1, I am not in the business of trading insults with anyone but I will tell you that I understand a lot more than you think when it comes to the so called "established churches" because a lot of them actually left the business of winning souls for Christ a long time ago and is way too deep for me to engage in an "unsecured environment" but you can start by looking at their buildings and see if you understand everything thing in it or if it is of God's. Bob Marley was right when he said "there is a natural mystic blowing through the air; If you listen carefully now you will hear, "
Things are not the way they seem so you stand to learn more by humbling your self unless you are part of the "powers" I am not better than anyone because of anything and I see his blessings upon me every second of the day and I also do believe that folks that don't want to learn have a right to remain stupid.
May his grace continue to follow all his true Children.

The tithe advocates will give you every excuse in the book as to why you should join their ranks. When it comes to matters of God, it is our duty to make sure what we are being told/advised on is correct and not some scam like this. Any other form of milking the congregation dry should be opposed as well and not just the tithe. Anyone that builds a big place to be like some other pastor and now has to tax folks 10% when they're not the government and provides no social service has to be exposed because big buildings don't glorify God as they claim but the man who put his own name on it one way or the other. We have to be like Jesus Christ (meaning of Christian) and if he didn't advocate building big "tabernacles" to honor him, why do we need to do it? Jesus' life was simple enough for every Christian to emulate and his blood is sufficient payment for our sins, Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, he came to fulfill it.
To be blessed don't mean you have to be "rich", money doesn't guarantee happiness and only a really poor person will believe it does. One has to be vigilant against these evil forces distorting the scripture for financial gain, Jesus withdrew from the "multitudes" to pray meaning prayer should be personal between the person and God and not some rehearsed mumble jumble that one sometimes hear, I know God understands all languages but don't you need to understand what you're asking of God? Don't go to work and believe that somehow your bank account will over flow, that's a recipe for homelessness and other stuff if you ask me. I am a believer who understands the scriptures and really need fellowship with fellow believers rather than going to a "church" to find salvation.

I can see why most people would leave the subject alone altogether because the argument is not going anywhere but I don't have any problem with knowledge transfer of any kind.
Giving 10% to secure the grace of Christ is "unchristian" in my book and I am entitled to my opinion, if tithe was that important, Jesus would have made it very clear for us to do it like he did with other matters of faith, worship and compassion, etc but he didn't and I can't be fooled by these tithe preaching, high flying pastors ever.
I am not touching RCCG at all as enough has been said about them already, their associations here in NA doesn't even encourage me to get closer to them. No one is dumping on the Nigerian pastors here ( I know I am not), there are enough stuff on you tube on the prosperity pastors here in NA to see that they're under fire as well for all this prosperity nonsense they've been preaching.
I went to "Gbagada" in the early 80s and don't have anything against them either except the tithe preaching, everyone who know Nigeria ought to have seen the major contributions of the Anglicans, Catholics, Baptists, etc either in the schools or health clinics but I may have been away for a while and nothing from the charismatic/pentecostal ones other than the colleges that their average member can't afford to send their kid.
I have said in another thread that "you don't tell someone with oil what to fry" they can fry sand if they so chose which is why I won't condemn anyone for paying 10% but don't tell me I am wrong because I chose a different approach.
Those tithe advocates forget the fact that this was some kind of tax in those days since it was also used for administration expenses.
I have heard their argument "if 90% doesn't do it for you, the extra 10% can't make the difference", maybe only in Nigeria do folks take home 100%, so if uncle Sam already got his 30+%, we will be talking of less than 70%,
We are in the royal priesthood my friends and if you chose to have a pastor that can't work, then you ought to support him but he can't be living larger than the other members either, offerings should suffice.
I saw a video recently where one of "them" was even claiming that Jesus had to be rich himself or else he wouldn't have needed a treasurer", this is the kind of distortions of the scripture we are talking about, if the pastor is the only one benefiting from the prosperity then something really is wrong.
It was 10% of gross income, now the Anglican guy said their own was 5% of disposable income, hhhhmmm, no consistency here is there?
I am not one of those Christians who are swayed by "financial blessings" preaching because that is not my reason for becoming a Christian in the first place, I want to make Heaven not get rich quick or die trying, (hard to believe some preachers are like rappers now)
Jesus promised to take care of our needs not our wants so we need to be clear about what we preach, I don't blame those who benefit from this misinformation but feel sorry for them because they have to keep this scam going so as to continue the "lifestyle". Thank God I don't need to scam to maintain and to him be the glory and not some "solid personal achievement"

It is hard not to look at those advocating 10% ( coincidentally same % folks used to have to pay to get naija govt. contracts, maybe more now) as pharisees since they obviously don't have anything to back up that requirement from the Bible other than some recycled junk that's nothing but the same old beaten path.
Our experiences in this area is varied I am sure and I can't even go into some of the stuff I've heard in "churches" the last couple of months, those who aren't "submissive" are said to be "stealing from God" or "blocking God's blessing for them", " not sowing properly", etc.
Just as I don't have to be a democratic to prove I am black, I don't need to submit to an old law to prove I am a good Christian.
I don't need any "spiritual father" other than Jesus Christ, spiritual growth is something one should continue to seek but we need to be weary of wolves in sheep's clothing, no one is going to make me feel guilty about what i do or don't do without providing superior arguement to butress their point, when I didn't know any better, I went along with it but now I do.
Matthew 23:8-12 , is a good reference for those with "temporal fathers, daddy" or whatever. It is the duty of anyone that knows better not to keep it to themselves so we don't fall short in God's eyes, so educate those in "bondage" of old "curses" we must.

I said giving should be between the giver and God, Jesus warned us against giving or praying like the pharisees so I don't need to make my commitment or the lack thereof known to anyone if I don't feel a need to. The standard percentage based giving is not for me ( though it can come in handy come April 15), I don't need write-offs when it comes to matters of faith.

PG.1, I thought "tithe" meant 10% but if not, my bad!
Tithe as taught today in the charismatic churches is a SCAM
Jesus Christ I LOVE but most of these "men of God"
Jesus did castigate, admonish, condemn, etc the pharisees for their ways and warned (real Christians) never to emulate them
The real Christians are the "Church", "temple" of God and not some building whatever it's name
Matt.6:22-25, ignorance or the curtailment of enlightenment is a disease and ought to be called that.
1Tim 2:5, 6:10, Hebrews 10:12,9:15, Rev. 1:6, 5:10, I could go on but why?
Giving like prayer should be between the Christian and God QED
They could have pulled this off when the Bible wasn't available to everyone or when folks weren't literate enough to read but haba.
Jesus came as a server-leader with no difference in appearance between him and his Apostles hence Judas had to be bribed to finger him, good luck finding that kind of Leadership today.
Jesus Christ is the only Perfect one and there's non like HIM.

Tithe issue again? With the same DS and SS combatants,
A % requirement is not a real Christian practice and I look at it the same way I look at any scam

What has this got to do with Ishan now? Nigerians can't do anything without putting tribal marks on them? I don't care about this couple and could care less what the state of their marriage is but don't insult Ishans with this crap. Yorubas, Ibos, hausas, Calabars (at the the old one), Rivers, etc all have pastors you can question their motive and what they claim so leave tribes out of this nonsense my friend and instead try to educate the poor Nigerians that follow these folks and believe all the lies.

stay there no go repent and turn to Jesus since you no the truth why not make a diffrence.Just remember one thing God is not morked what we sow we reap!

What has this guy's remark got to do with this thread? A mind sure is a terrible thing to waste.
My relationship with the almighty creator is personal and no matter what the fake prosperity preachers tell you, you've got to be practical and stop being taken for a ride. I am sharing this knowledge with you so I won't be held responsible come judgment time but again the Bible tell us clearly " to each his own" and "he that have ears, let him hear" and the best one of all by the MAN himself " the eye is the light of the body, if the eyes are good, the body will be full of light, if the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness? You can't serve God and mammon (almighty dollar, naira) WAKE UP PEOPLE.

I wonder about Nigeria! Fela should have been president of that country because 30 + years after he sang "zombie" they are still plenty in Nigeria not to talk about "you dey bleach", "yellow fever", "follow follow",  I can go on and on.
Jesus Christ is the only one we should follow without question and even then we need to make sure we are following him correctly and not some dogmatic charisma, "man of God" has to be one of the most abused cliches out there. My people need to study the Bible for themselves and stop following any preacher and repeating the same worn out phrases over and over when questioned about their church/cult. I truly feel for our country.

I can't speak for UK or Nigeria since I don't see myself working in any of these places but the guys that advised you to start with the basics are correct. With no experience, you need A+, and then something like Network +, you basically need to stay in the CompTia arena until you get your foor in the door and see how it is in the real world, with a couple of years under your belt, you can then figure out if "sysadmin", databases, networking, "infosec" or even programming. The US market is distinct from the rest of the World when it comes to IT and forget those salary surveys as different regions here have different things to offer. 70k in the south probably beats 6 figure salaries in the North East or the West coast.

I couldn't care less about what Oprah Winfrey thinks of Nigeria and Nigerians, black or not, this is an American. The same America that gave us ITT and MKO Abiola. Oprah wants to talk about corruption? Let her start by telling us what happened to the millions of Naira (Naira was higher than the dollar then) that Nigeria spent on Telephones that never worked and when accountable government came into place to probe those money, Abiola and his American cohorts always had IBB and his tanks to take over the government. Oprah need to get a life apart from her dogs and Stedman (is he gay?) Americans who are greedy enough to get caught by these 419 folks have no one to blame but themselves for falling for these elementary hooks of money in a case. ITT by Fela needs to be sent to Oprah's myspace so she can educate her self that her own country taught us this 419, screw them all.

obj's name sells newspapers? What planet is this failure on? With idiots like obj, little wonder naija is the way it is. God will take care of them all one by one.

Is George Bush not filled with an equal amount of hatred to the point of sending troops to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and about 4,000 american soldiers?

Justgood:


The question was about the mountain raghead who takes pleasure in killing innocent folks in the name of religion and not his so called christian (not Christian)counterpart, thank you.

What planet are you on to think of osama bin hiding as a hero? Being full of hate to the point of killing innocent folks does not make one a hero and he will rot in hell with those 72 Virginians on his behind.

@denex

What has applying for Visa and being issued the wrong type/date got with not being able to get into the American embassy? This is plain ignorance compounded by astounding ignorance. Is it our fault that you can't get into American embassy? Nigeria charges more than any other embassy I've ever applied for Visa ($100) which I understand to be reciprocal but at the very least, they need to be organized and issue the right visa. I am sure they will issue the right visa if you leave the money order blank instead of "pay to the order of Nigerian embassy" ).

It starts at the top my friend! Nigerian students anywhere are a reflection of the entire society, I know a couple of Nigerian "students" in the ATL area with a powerful lawyer for a dad, hardly go to classes and never short of money not to talk of living in separate million dollar homes paid for by daddy. The situation is getting worse by the day and respect for Nigerians will soon be hard to come by, national problem that needs to be fixed from the top down, maybe the Rawlings solution will work for us.