₦airaland Forum

Abram paid a one time tithe from the SPOILS OF WAR
Abraham was never recorded to have paid any tithe and if so, please share the Bible verse.

God created man for fellowship not tithes!
Holyfield has issues and maybe due to the fact that he took way too many punches to the head, A christian ought not to have made that many babies with different women in the first place, this is not the OT.
That someone would actually advise/suggest that he pays "tithes" instead of taking care of his brood is plain STUPID, you are supposed to take care of your kids or not have any at all. How many of those kids did his "pastor" take in because Holyfield's behind is broke now?

ogajim:
tkb, where is the 90% going to come from? Ever heard of TAXES which is north of 30% in his bracket?

Dude, I was only trying to show you that no one in these parts get to keep 90% after they pay their 10%, Maybe when they get serious about taxes in Nigeria, you will understand.

|| Debosky||

I need the Bible verse where Jacob made good on his tithe promise to God/Yahwe


God bless you all.

tkb, where is the 90% going to come from? Ever heard of TAXES which is north of 30% in his bracket?

I won't touch the Dollar dude at all but from this link, he might get the Mike Vick treatment soon:

http://www.mediatakeout.com/2009/32112-busted_pastor_creflo_dollar_being_investigated__may_soon_be_arrested__for_cruelty_to_animals.html

Evander obviously took too many punches to the head and as such might not be able to study the Bible properly to see that "sowing a seed", "offering" don't just mean money and that tithe is not really Christian.
Credit card is money you don't have and no real "Pastor" will preach that you give "offering" on something you don't have unless he is serving a different a different God than the one I know and should be called "ole/barawo" instead of pastor.

I don't think there should be a divide between Christians based on how we give because Jesus Christ himself warned us against giving like the Pharisees did. Giving is Christian and if folks choose to give 10%, they are entitled to it as long as they know they won't be condemned if they don't pony up the cash (= highway robbery)

I don't recall Jacob paying any tithe but a promise to pay if all went well in his journey.

What is the relationship between OT Levitical tithes and our current tax system? Does a Christian in Germany for instance have to pay tithes even after "religion tax" is deducted from his paycheck?

PG.1

I am in no way accusing you of any wrong doing, I do think you hit the nail in the head when you implied there was no need to accuse one another but to work together towards the common good in this case, our work in the Lord's vineyard. I believe anyone can give as his/her heart desires, it is the use of wrong tactics by the "pimps" that I despise because like I stated, I continue to fellowship with others and continue to see the twisting and being someone who has NEVER done anything because others are doing it, I will not be moved by the lies and will counsel those who need it not to be fooled as well (if they seek the counsel that is).
I have picked up some good things from this back and forth so i guess it is kinda worthwhile, we have to help those in need as Christians.

PG.1,


Thank you, you have made my point.

Whatever I am doing now should be between me and God and not meant to be shared as the "pharisees" did but our Lord Jesus warned us against seeking the glory of men in our deeds so I will leave that alone.
I don't remember registering a company I mean church so building a school is kinda out of my reach for now but if that is his will for me, I will do that as well.
The main thing here is educating others who felt it but didn't know what to make of the message, it's like reaching out to those who are under the "curse, bondage, trap, etc" to let them know they're not alone. It took a major move for me to review what I had been hearing and realizing that I was being taken for a ride ( and to the cleaners) so I had to hit the breaks and studied ( I will continue to) the standard operating manual he bequeathed to us - The Holy Bible.
We love you sister girl, no offense. Serve God only and may his grace be with you.

Kudos Allta.


Buy the Best KJV Bible for you
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
Ephesians 5:15-25 (King James Version)

15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


It's more than 4th and long for those who want to use our Bible for personal gain/wealth, their end is here.

Those Gospel pimps and their agents are not interested in what the Bible teaches if you ask me, they can only continue to deceive those who are too lazy to study the Bible for themselves. I smile now when I hear them quote the now most popular verse in the Bible Malachi3:10 ( heard it this past Sunday again), knowledge is the KEY to stopping these guilt peddlers.
Ever wonder why the new incorporated "churches" don't have anything like elementary school, high school, clinic, etc that serves the poor like the old time "missionaries" did? I want to ask PG.1 a question, "what is the worth of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sake?
Thank you and God bless you all.

First time I am gonna use the word "GBAM"

As I have said in other posts, those who oppose the idea that Christians should seek further knowledge in the Scriptures to OUT those Gospel pimps have somethings to hide.
Too much lies are being sold out there and folks need to wake up and smell the coffee, there is a distinct possibility that Christian worship will become an "underground" activity soon in these end times that we live in so why not start now if you can? It is getting clearer and clearer who many of those so called "men of God" actually serve - money/ego/kudi/owo despite the warnings that money is the ROOT cause of every evil.
Reminds me of high school poetry :

He that is down, need fear no fall;
He that is low, no pride;
He that is humble ever shall have God to be his guide

I am content with what I have,
And, Lord, contentment still I crave,
Because thou savest such,,

Don't recite this to the pimps in suits and frocks who want you to believe it is a sin not to be rich hence folks part with even the little they have to "sow a seed", our brothers and sisters back home need to remember the Elementary school "reader" story, "one day a man caught a dove, when the dove was in his hand, the dove said please don't kill me I will tell you three things to make you rich, "

seyenko:
The "churches" are like Microsoft nowadays - they preach user friendly sermons, they say what the people want to hear and not what they should hear. They engage in direct and indirect marketing of people via feedbacks they get from the payback of their 'film' recordings. They understand at what point in the videos the people are subjected to mass hysteria and irrational euphoria. You hardly go to church nowadays without wondering if you are in a MBA class - all you hear is money, money , money, seed offering, covenant offering, faith offering, kingdom seed offering, tithe offering etc

I couldn't have said it any better myself. These are certainly the end times and we need to be sure we are playing for the right team as the prince of this World has taken over a lot of our "churches" as evidenced by the whole "infrastructure" not performing according to Jesus Christ's instructions. Paul compared his teachings with those of the Apostles and there was "nothing to add or remove" from it.
When folks don't have any basis for their position, they pick holes with everything like the "church", and I thought putting a word or statement in quotes isolates it to some degree (not an English major), we need to pray hard that we know what our "church" stands for and who they "align" or "partner" with. If your "church's" hierarchy looks like a pyramid business scheme, you might need a new one  
But seriously, I haven't seen anything from those on the other side of the "isle" other than the "same old same old"
Truth should take you further than doctrines can.

LOL

That too, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you have to move from a $5 an hour burger flipping job to a $50 an hour office job, you need some training/education and not just prayer.

A Christian is a Christian regardless of the circumstances as no condition is permanent. Human beings will come up with all kinds of excuses as to why something is the way it is with them, it's like observing a kid behaving badly in public and the parents' excuse of "you know these children born overseas are different from us raised back home" instead of admitting they dropped the ball at some point.
I think the west provides a better atmosphere to practice Christianity for a whole bunch of reasons, you don't need to receive or bribe anyone as a way of life for instance. Those with women "problems" will have a hard time obviously due to the way of life out west. Every case is different I think.

Deeper Life for instance started as a house fellowship at Unilag as I remember it( I remember Gbagada in the early 80s), fellowship with other Christians is the only issue Kunle has to address and he appears to know that he needs to remain faithful to our Lord and savior.
The Bible tells us "to each his own", No need to condemn the man because he is taking this route.

ogajin,

The story of Cain and Abel offering sacrifice to God is well known. The story of Abraham tithing to the King of Salem is well known. Every action provokes an equal and opposite reaction (you can call it Karma etc), but someone set up this world and owns it. That same being is worthy of your honour, thanks praise and adoration. Why should you think that paying homage to him with your tithe is too much? Was it not him that made it possible for you to own that money? You should actually be giving more than 10% if we are to show absolute gratitude!
--Marlbron


It is good for folks to begin a thread from the start (page1) as the marlboro guy would have seen my first reaction to this. I don't need to give any 10% tithe, I can give more than that if my heart tells me to and also directly bless those I see in need without seeking approval from anyone including any "uber pastor" because it is "my prerogative" and the good Lord leads me to do it.
by the way, Abram paid tithe to the king of Salem (aka future land of Israel), his name was not Abraham then and I do honor the Lord which is why I reject false doctrines/preachings and instead find out for my self by studying his Word in the Bible.
Like I pointed out in earlier post, I still fellowship with others consistently only now I don't pay attention to the stuff that aren't based on the Bible.
We need to get real, what works for Kunle might not work for others.

Anyone that tells you they "backslided" due to western influences is a LIAR, they were never born again in the first place, I can understand if they said it was harder to maintain your status as a born again Christian (due to a lot of influences that are unavailable in Nigeria) than that nonsense. Circumstance made those people to claim born again status and different set of circumstances also forced them to abandon it when they came out west. I can't say I was born again while in Nigeria but mine happened when I left home so to each his own, of those Nigerian churches claiming to export the gospel to the west, what percentage of their congregation in the west is actually local? (less than 2% and not up to 10% that they love so much) so those claims has to be looked at closely.

"Marlboroman",


Any Scripture/Bible reference to back up your claim or we should all trust you on that as well?

Kunle, Cavalry greetings to you my brother:

I totally understand your point of view and have been thinking about the same thing for a little while now. For now, I just go there and basically have my "filter" on throughout so I can separate the truth (not much these days) from the prosperity and the other nonsense that goes on in these places.

"~lady~": You don't need a "church" to "commune" but rather to fellowship which you can do with like minded folks even in your basement as our good Lord already assured us that "where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there".

"Home fellowships" are a growing ( disturbing for the gospel pimps) are a growing phenomenon these days and nothing is wrong with them though we need to remember the old line from Animal farm (In fighting against man, we must not come to resemble them) and lay out the real Christian doctrines and practices that is missing from the "enterprise, incorporated, etc" churches. sample of one in my area:    http://homechurch.meetup.com/279/

Even unbelievers can tell a real Christian from a fake as Mahatma Gandhi was once quoted as saying " I like Jesus Christ, I don't like Christians because you Christians are so much unlike your Jesus Christ" In the last three weeks alone, I've heard "stories" that sounded more like the 150 plus miles driven on an empty tank of gas thingy, Malachi has been thrown in once, " You know we are praying to God to bless us with a bigger building" (Doesn't matter that the current one isn't filled to capacity), the list goes on and on.

Matured Christians can fellowship with one another anywhere and God will be there so don't listen to the naysayers, follow your conscience and do the right thing in Jesus name. Of the "cardinal" principles a true Christian needs, only fellowship requires the involvement of others, you can pray/commune with God alone, you can fast alone, you can love others even if they don't love you, faith is equally personal.

We will keep you in our prayers brother man and remain true to your beliefs because "those who don't stand for something will fall for anything"

Anything for visa I guess.

"Tiny Tim",

No one said they were being forced to give but that "pastors" and "deacons" routinely "shame" "coerce" people into falling for their scam using Malachi (addressed to the Levitical tithe collectors by the way) to provide a guilt feeling among the people to the extend they spend what they didn't plan on, no wonder some of the "churches" get bounced checks if you ask me. Freewill offering should be from the heart not because of what someone misreads in the Bible.
It can be any % and yes you can decide to use some of that to bless people you feel are in need, why do "rich" folks get the "best seat" in these business enterprises ( I mean church)? They tell you to leave Nigeria's problem to God and that they don't have to criticize those in power and you wonder if it the fear that those in power might impose taxes on them, I pray for Nigeria!

Any real "Man of God" will speak the truth to the "powers that be too" and not fraternize with the same people that looted the national treasury and now feels bad enough to drop some "change" in the "tithe" or offering basket not to talk of the "new building fund" . Some people get indoctrinated to the point of being zombies and yes men. Don't even ask Nigerian churches (Anywhere) to be transparent with their finances, that could get one expelled or tagged something other than someone seeking accountability, omase o!

"Man of God" is probably the most misused/abused cliche out there right now and need to keep in mind that not all represent the man we know as our Lord and savior. If all Lizards lie prostrate, how can you tell which one has a belly ache?

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=113108.msg3983084#msg3983084 date=1244224563]Lol, you've got some ego! Let's pally abeg o!!! [/quote]I've got some "ego"?
"let go my ego then"!

I have not seen any intelligent contribution to this thread from anyone, I guess Ogboni is harmless too then. no one here said they have been to the temple or seen their rituals let alone tell us what degree they are or even shared their motto, ( no one promised you say your papa go tell you everything now)

PG.1
Don't let me advocate another ban on you oooooo like your buddy baby journalist to be

The very same point we tried to make exactly. It is not only the "bishop", "GO" "pastor" that knows where my hard earned money will be better spent, some people will need drop this until we all surrender to their little whims and say tithes are legal obligations a Christian carries. I could decide to bless different people who I see need help rather than giving it to someone to purchase a private jet, we have choices as Christians. Only those that benefit from this scam/misinformation will oppose it with the venom we've seen from a certain someone.

"Conscience nurtured by truth" I believe is Guardian's motto and was credited to Othman Dan Fodio,
Why can't folks who are Christians follow this simple motto?

2 Corinthians 4:18 (King James Version)

18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

All these big buildings that require tithes to maintain, I am yet to see a single scriptural verse to support the need for these actions, giving should come from the heart and not prompt/prodding/pleading/milking of the congregation which like a lot of other things didn't start in Nigeria but we are now taking it to new levels like we do with the other stuff.

Kunle and Omoruyi, una do well oooooo


I like the woman fighting with everyone analogy a lot, thank God I am not the only one who feels this way about their discredited scam. These are the same folks that hobnob with Nigeria's political establishment, there is not a Daniel, Elijah, etc among them. Pilgrim seems to be on NL to protect the "family business"  

It's a business for the most part now and really has nothing to do with spreading the gospel unless some of the "veterans" of NL can "educate" us more on this as they're quick to do on other threads.


PS: The big ones here now have ATM machines, McDonald's, etc, go figure!

Thank you Kunle, I kinda sensed that, thank you my brother.
I will leave her(?) alone because of an old saying back home " don't argue with a fool because passers by will not notice the difference" God bless you brother man.